Summed up by 'this was a normal roundabout' but someone in council had a friend who earnt loads of cash by selling 42 sets of traffic lights

@TheChipmunk2008

Жыл бұрын

As a resident of Southampton, can confirm this was the issue.

@chriswiles8617

Жыл бұрын

The cost of the lights quite small compared to the earth works involved in producing the junction and adjusting the statutory undertakings in the area. Following on from the introduction of the southern relief road the side roads would not get a look in during peak periods with a normal roundabout in that space. Plus the lights give pedestrian controlled crossings where before you had to leg it over 3 lanes in gaps in traffic and that is not safe. As many have said no worse than before, except there is more traffic at this junction following the introduction of Beverley southern relief road. Looks empty internally because the whole junction has to be coordinated so that the internal links do block back stopping non turning movements, have to keep the queues on the outside approaches. This junction maintains this co ordination even with significant variation in demand on the approaches and optimises for overall delay, this it does very well and the data on volumes passing through the junction proves this is the case. The number of traffic signal poles is set by UK design standards requiring primary and secondary poles for each stop line, and the necessity to have poles for the pedestrian demand push buttons. I looks a little worse as there are also lighting columns in the area. The number of lighting columns could also be reduced but you have a trade off there to bigger lighting columns with higher lumens output to achieve satisfactory lighting levels, but they to look unsightly and cost more to buy, operate and maintain so there is always design compromise. Roundabouts with this many arms and the quantum of traffic running through usually involve considerably more space than available here if they are to operate satisfactorily. A normal roundabout in that space would have require a number of steps down for various design parameter standards as outlined in the Design Manual for Roads and bridges if it was to be adopted highway, some of these known to impact on safety. Big design issue for any traffic signals is the continued operation of the signal controllers and linked UTC Urban Traffic control systems, but again this is a trade off against operational status with the traffic flows. In terms of cycle provision signal control is usually safer than normal roundabouts.

@MrTonnioP

Жыл бұрын

@@chriswiles8617 well put thanks for the in-depth post. Signalised round abouts are a great benefit to pedestrian safety, Traffic Signal design is not all about the car. Tho could have utilised combined lamp column and Traffic Signal poles maybe, that would have cut down on the street clutter.

@markshaw270

Жыл бұрын

Earned*

@ProbablyTheBestUkuleleDadEver

Жыл бұрын

Someone on Telford and Wrekin Borough Council has shares in a traffic light company, it's the only logical reason why perfectly good roundabouts keep sprouting traffic lights

Love that you mentioned the pedestrian experience aspect (unlike many other road-related channels on KZread)

Off topic but today in Bristol city centre, traffic lights on St Augustine's parade to Park Street (busiest area in the city) broke during rush hour. There are wasn't any chaos at all. Everything was so efficient and this made me wonder why we even need traffic lights. They seem to cause unnecessary congestion.

I don't see the problem with just disconnecting _Holme Curch Lane_ from this intersection. Just make it a dead end a few meters before it interferes with the A 164. The only people impacted by this would be the residents between Grovehill Road and Beverly Beck - and those probably appreciate the traffic calming by reducing the through-traffic in their "hood". Through traffic can choose to take Grovehill Road to the North and connect to the A164 this way or take the B1230 south and drive around the city center in the first place. It might add a minute or two in travelling time, but it makes the junction both safer and more open, which will result in better average traffic flow - AND the non-motorized modes of transportation would benefit from the extra space, making bike lanes and a walkable connection through to the shops possible. Unless, ofcourse, the citizens of Beverly are still so addicted to their cars that any other mode is unthinkable, even if it is faster and more convenient...

@Cl0ckcl0ck

Жыл бұрын

Yup, I thought the same. The problem isn't the situation but the planners not wanting to change anything 'old'. Disconnecting that road leads to 300m extra drive distance for 100-200 houses and prevents rat running too. It can be paid for by selling the 38 traffic lights it would make redundant.

Can they simply remove that tiny lane from connecting to this intersection (or prohibit right turns onto and from it) and simply replace this messy junction with a run-of-the-mill four-way stoplight?

@PeterAuto1

Жыл бұрын

that would be a good idea

That was SO interesting. It could have been dull, but you made it completely compelling... and I love the positive (ish) spin you give it at the end. Another winner, Ollie.

I use this road when I go to North Yorkshire I have never thought this junction was confusing??? If you want a confusing junction try switch island where the M57 meets the M58 just outside Liverpool.

I live in Beverley and it’s the traffic lights that are the main issue they have been completely turned off during repairs and the road actually works better with out them.

@willtricks9432

Жыл бұрын

We have the same lights repair relax where I live

As with most complex junctions on this island, the odds are the biggest problem are drivers who don't know what they're doing - other than the people who just shouldn't be allowed to drive, this will mainly affect people unfamiliar with the area/junction, and thus wind up in the wrong lane. That junction looks like a very elegant solution, but with the correct lane for a certain exit not necessarily the default (based on roundabouts etc in the Highway Code), you'd want decent signage which I don't see much of. That would be my main concern if visiting this town

@ThePretentious1

Жыл бұрын

100% agree. The only problem with lane based solutions is people aversion to using correct lanes in the first place, you get the same problem on every road.

I think the old roundabout with some traffic lights would've been the best solution

No, there are a few that pop out to me. 1. magic roundabout in swindon. came to it at 10pm at night, nobody else about so i just went straight through it with wreckless abandon. 2. the motorway section where the M60, M61, M62 and M602 all meet within a few miles of each other. absolute chaos at peak time. 3. switch island where the A59, M57 and M58 all meet. Very confusing if you aren't local to it and use it regularly.

one drawback of a tradional roundabout is if the traffic does not come from and go to all directions evenly, it is hard for some cars to get on as there isn't a gap It looks lke the main A road is much busier than the others and most cars pass straight across, this would make it really slow for users from other routes

Awesome, who would have thought that a junction would be fascinating? 🙂 Adding my 2p to the situation - I very recently learnt from a video on the "Cheddar" channel (search for "Why the U.S. Hates Roundabouts" ) that there is a difference between what we have loads of here in the UK (roundabouts), and traffic circles (of which we have thankfully very few). A traffic circle contains traffic lights within the circular flow, whereas a in a roundabout you give way to traffic already flowing in from the right (or flowing from the left in the U.S. or Europe). So in short, what you see embedded within this junction is in fact a type of traffic circle rather than a roundabout. I'm still reeling from the sheer shock of managing to remember all of this cr@p... 😛

it's not that confusing really, as long as the signage is in place early to tell you what lane you should be in you shouldn't have to switch lanes so suddenly. The ones I dislike the most are when the instructions are merely painted on the road meaning you probably won't see them in heavy traffic and leaving them being faded and worn instead. I find the badly signposted left turn only lanes on Queens Drive in Liverpool to be far more confusing!

I've been using it most days since it opened and have never had any problem with it. Follow the road markings, stop at a red light and go at a green light. I don't think about mediaeval history when I approach it - perhaps this is the secret. The delaminating beige road surface is a bad idea, though.

it had to be 42 traffic lights. That is the answer to everything

You should take a look at the Postwick Interchange just outside Norwich. Two bridges and seven round-abouts to join the A47.

@kwlkid85

Жыл бұрын

I'd say only 3 of those roundabouts are actually part of the junction and I can't think of a situation that requires you to go round more than 1 or 2 of them.

@kwlkid85

Жыл бұрын

Just make sure to ignore the signs if you're heading east on the A47 and want to head into Norwich.

I use this junction and since it was built, there have been numerous crashes, not to mention the horrendous traffic queues at all times. As a roundabout previously, traffic flowed much better..........

That’s where our Malaysian road engineers learn from…. The most confusing roundabout in Malaysia is in Petaling Jaya town.

My nomination for the stupidest roundabout in Britain goes to - Canford Bottom roundabout near Wimborne, Dorset. I see a lot of commenters mentioning the Magic Roundabouts in Hemel and Swindon. They're a piece of piss compared to Canford Bottom.

I would've kept the junction of the 2 major roads as a roundabout, and moved the older minor road as a separate junction a little to the south, with traffic only merging northwards. I'd also have traffic lights on the roundabout, linked to the lights to turn on/off the smaller road and join. The Crooked Billet on the A30/A308 and also joining Staines is pretty bad, because it's an at-grade roundabout with cut-through roads. It would work much better if the A30 was a flyover and had a separate roundabout on the flat, but it would also work better if the lanes were marked throughout using dashed lines like on most motorway junctions, and properly signposted from the staines direction.

Switch island (A59/M57/M58 and more) takes some beating!

What is it about adding the "Blue Danube" to a video of traffic in a complex intersection makes it feel like a choreographed dance?

As a traffic engineer myself and specializing in traffic signals, all this just looks like a dog's dinner. Just wait until the cycle lobby hear about this.

Bad car dependant design. Instead of trying to accomodate more cars with stupid wide roads and massive ugly junctions that are a nightmare to traverse for anyone outside a car, we should be providing good alternatives to driving to reduce peoples propensity to take their cars with them everywhere they go. When will we learn that cars are inefficient and slow when you try to allow for every idiot to drive? Trains, buses, trams, bike paths. Instead of building a massive multi lane road, consider that you may be better with a bus lane, bike lane or tramway. If you can't accomodate current traffic without building a huge road through the area, consider adding a bus lane to make the journey convenient without a car as a bus can carry 50+ people in the same space the average 2 cars manage to carry 2 or 3 people- if you build it right and put on a good affordable service, people will use it and you won't have to build dumb infrastructure to accomodatethose peoples cars.

Looking on google maps it doesn't seem necessary for Holme Church Lane to connect at this junction - with alternative connections to Grovehill Road and Hull Road nearby. If you removed that exit it would be a simpler 4-way junction which could have a roundabout or simpler traffic lights.

@orwellboy1958

Жыл бұрын

Oh, stop it, you with your sensible suggestions, you'll never get a job with the council.🤣🤣🤣

Why no box junctions?

Typical increased capacity junction that started as a normal roundabout but to build a large housing estate connected to the infrastructure the Developer had to come up with a magical solution to get their planning application approved ...

Quay Street roundabout Fareham springs to mind.

@TheChipmunk2008

Жыл бұрын

HAH, yes, on my route to work every morning (live in so'ton, work in gosport).... but those poor buggers coming from fareham, 3 cars every 2 mins... at best... YIKES

You say traffic lights cause congestion they actually even it out. Without them on say a roundabout it’s almost impossible to join from a side road to the main flow of traffic as drivers bunch up and queue across the roundabout. Lights give everyone a chance to join and can be synced to allow more traffic from busier roads

Car drivers are not allowed to think for themselves. The traffic light brigade don’t like islands .

i would give the magic roundabout in Hemel Hempstead. Its a roundabout comprising approximately 6 smaller roundabouts. check it out

You should try the Magic Roundabout in Swindon.

I'd like to nominate the Magic roundabout in Hemel Hempstead as the most confusing.One large roundabout surrounded by 6 mini roundabouts.

It worked perfectly well before as a roundabout. When thr lights break down it works fine. The junction from gbe old Grove hill weel Road had to be widened after opening as the councils gritters could not fit through the junction and the are based on the groveholl site. East riding council refuse to admit its a mess.

i must say it was a good watch but couldn't help but get the Tom Scott vibe from your looks and presentation and Ashley Neal with your voice lol!

OMG, I went on that once, not knowing anything about it. What a nightmare!

The problem is not with the junction it self but with the volume of traffic its expected to handle. The original roundabout was no better or worse than the current 'red light district' They both back up at busy times of day. The addition of the A164 link road from Morrisons roundabout, and the building of new housing estates along its route has only compounded the problem by guiding more traffic in to an already congested junction instead of directing it towards the A1079 Beverley Bypass. There are now plans for the Jocks Lodge junction which would guide even more traffic to the same juction!! What is wrong with continuing the A164 eastward below Weel, Tickton, and Routh and joining it to the A1035 Leven Bypass giving Beverly a much needed southern Bypass ? Or would that require that someone at ERCC physically look at a map.

I'd say the interactions between the M60/M61/A580 and M60/M66/M62 are particularly stupid in that they all give the lower traffic volume lanes the priority. Traffic backed up literally miles every day to leave the M60 go down a slip road, around a roundabout and then rejoin the M60. As for Switch Island - it works fine apart from the idiots who deliberately go through Amber lights knowing they are then blocking the carriageway for people travelling the opposite direction.

I agree with the comments about 'The Magic Roundabouts' in Swindon and Hemel Hempstead, although they are on a different level (I've driven around both). This one, however, looks very similar to a junction in my home town of Bicester (A41/Southern bypass). I'll see about making a comparison...42 signals, was it?

loads of roundabouts have been replaced with lights around where i live, its so much worse

As an American: Disconnect Holme Church Lane. Traffic would self-select down Beaver Rd or use A164 at Hull Rd. The biggest concern is the BP station needs access to A164. The city should buy out the home on the corner of Holme and A164 to benefit the BP station.

This just needs a turbo-roundabout!

@thomasgriffiths5181

Жыл бұрын

OK where is it

@gerhard6105

Жыл бұрын

@@thomasgriffiths5181 here, in the more modern Netherlands.

I'll see your roundabout/junction and raise you this (50.850586, -1.177318). Fareham was a small Chartered market town between Portsmouth and Southampton and for most of the 20th century this was just a simple Y-shaped junction (with trams). In the 70s as outlying towns started to expand, it was decided to build an East-West by-pass of the town centre on the A27. This necessitated the building of a roundabout, known as Fareham Market Roundabout (it sat just south of the then market square). All was ok for something like 40 years, until the planners started licking their pencils again. What they came up with was this roundabout-junction hybrid monstrosity. Bristling with traffic lights (to slow things down), lanes crossing over each other and poor lines of sight. When it opened there were inevitably a number of shunts and bumps, although things seem to have settled down a bit now. Renamed Quay Street Roundabout, it sits there like some malevolent beast, waiting to catch out the unaware non-locals. At peak hours, traffic still queues way back in four directions. 🤷🏻‍♂

@davidcopplestone6266

Жыл бұрын

I agree; It's an awful solution. The traffic lights don't seem to be in sync heading east along the A27. I've struggled to get on to the roundabout a number of times because there isn't space. I should add that I'm at the front of the queue when the lights change.

Reminds me of Smallthorne roundabouts in Stoke.

I just watched an entire video about a road junction. And enjoyed it. What have you done to me, Olly? The local junction I hate the most is in Bury where the A56, Peel Way, Derby Way and the B6222 all collide in a confusing mess outside KFC and Halford's. Hideous.

@PaulaXism

Жыл бұрын

OMG yes.. what a horror that is.

Not in the same league as the magic roundabout in Swindon

Suggestions 1 - Close Holme Church Lane where it meets the junction 2 - build a bypass or link road to take through traffic away from the junction. 3 - reinstate the roundabout, or go for a light-controlled crossroads All those lights must burn up a lot of power!

@teejayy2130

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately this I part if the circular bypass and it causes chaos

The Bolton end of Bury ring road is no fun either.

The worst part is there's a HGV test center in the industrial estate and in general a HGV would have to block the intersection when turning towards it.

This is a total waste of valuable land and will massively reduce nearby land/property values. The upkeep off all those signals and roads will be really high. My simple solution would be... Block off Holme church lane from the junction. Make it into a low traffic neighbourhood if you like. Make a simple cross road 4 way junction with traffic lights and toucan crossing. This will be safer for people on foot, on bikes, in motor vehicles and be much cheaper to maintain.

You should check out 'The Magic Roundabout'' in Hemel Hempstead

@ashhooper4702

Жыл бұрын

And Colchester, and Swindon

It needs gantry signs - all directions painted on the road are obscured by traffic at busy times.

I lived there for 18 months, I use to see Japanese and German tourists taking photos of it.

Try the “Magic Roundabout" in Hemel Hempstead or Park Lane at 5pm

@hairyairey

Жыл бұрын

Used to live there, cycled through it and drove through it (not at the same time!). It wasn't that bad, although there would be long queues.

Want to look at switch island mate, A59, M57 & M58 and brooms cross bypass.

Maybe if the signs were a lot more clearly defined ? Most town planners seem to be reluctant to add signs & yet this one has 42 sets of traffic lights that cost thousands !

Why does Bev get her own lane?

Could they just dead end the small road to simplify the connections? It looks fairly quiet.

Been there, done that both in a car & on foot as a visitor! Think of it as a speed suppression answer to a bad junction and one which takes some of the control away from the soft squidgy lump behind the vehicle controls. For those with young and impressionable grandchildren it is better called the 'Christmas tree junction' rather than the 'red light junction', I will leave it to you to work out why.

Now ride the junction on a cycle at rush hour in the dark when it's raining!

@falsemcnuggethope

Жыл бұрын

Ideally, there would be a nice separate bike path far enough away that you can't hear or smell the cars.

I have to use the junction everyday, I hate it, it’s slower and more congested than it ever was before

I walk across there frequently. They could give more priority to pedestrians. You can be waiting ages to cross but, as usual, the non-polluting form of transport (walking) gets shoved to one side. The motorists time is much more important, of course.

Underpass or flyover, maybe? The A12/A127 at Gallows Corner near Romford has a small flyover and a roundabout below

I prefer the approach taken in the centre of Poyton. Might seem a bit anarchic but causes motorists to drive cautiously and it flows well. And not a single traffic light if I'm not mistaken.

@grahammoore-grundy9944

Жыл бұрын

I live in Poynton, you are right, no traffic lights.

Simplest solution, close Holme Church Lane at the Junction making it a no through road from Beaver Road. Yes perhaps the locals will go crazy, but this is an idiotic road layout and a very costly one as well. Glad you commented about pedestrians and bikes. Time to change priorities.

@berenscott8999

Жыл бұрын

Here here. Or maybe just give Church Lane a left only, and close the middle of the road.

This is nowhere near as crazy as Switch Island in Liverpool

I travel to work through this junction, seen a lot of crashed vehicles here as it's not clear who has the right of way or which lights are for you.

It's a couple of miles outside of Hull. Nuff said

It's fine. I use it all the time. What Swinemoor lane really needs is a decent bypass from Molescroft Farm to Minster Way.

Have a look at Crewe Green Roundabout (in Crewe Cheshire). This used to be an odd juction, lots of side roads merging across an A road. They turned this into a large elongated roundabout, with no traffic lights and it has revolutionised traffic flow in the area. Very few delays and traffic just flows freely. Surely something like this could be used (I know it used to be a roundabout), but maybe just a better roundabout would help.

@ParaBellum2024

Жыл бұрын

Looking on Google maps, sooner or later some meddling busybody will want to put a road straight through, connecting Crewe Green Road with the A534.

It'd look better from above if that light coloured rumble strip, grippy gravel stuff wasn't deteriorating the way it is. Awful stuff! It always lifts off as soon as it's driven on. If you want to resurface a section of road smearing molten pitch on it & sprinkling it with gravel sounds like what the big boys do but they use big boy plant & big boy materials. Not the wife's icing kit!

It seems like a good setup. I don't think it is the road junction that is stupid, it is the drivers.

Shame they didn't think about improving the junction before they built new houses

the layout seemed like a decent solution to me, but really need to see the signage approaching it to know how good it is at dealing with the traffic. i'd prefer a single roundabout, but that still has problems.

To judge a road system you have to look at it when it's under stress, say during rush hour. Those slip roads look like they couldn't handle a lot of cars without being backed up onto the more open sections of the layout. Cars legitimately stopped across the road are always going to look wrong. Also, imagine what it would be like if there was an accident there.

There's a similar junction where I live. Essentially a crossroads but with a third smaller road joining on one side and a retail park access/perimeter road on the other. Not to mention access to an MOT station. Used to be a roundabout now has over 30 sets of lights. The main issue is at busy times when cars trying to push ahead block the way forward for vehicles coming from the side. It would help if drivers didn't ignore yellow boxes.

I wonder which UK junction had the most traffic lights? Anyone know of a junction with more than 42?

I imagine there is a few monthly cycle where the media covers it, and some people think, "oh, it can't be that bad! I'm King of the Road! I'll show them how to drive!" and pointlessly travel there on their next day off, get it obviously wrong and cause more traffic than the locals who know it well. Get a few of those geniuses in there, add a diversion, an HGV or a GPS gone wild and it will feed plenty of pictures and stories for the next round of "news" a few months later.

4:01 me after most roundabouts. edit : what's your opinion on the Salford cycle roundabout near regent road/sallford quays.

Should come to Swindon where the council thinks it’s a brilliant idea not only to put traffic lights on roundabouts but the exits of them too.

But as you say, it's lousy for people walking and how do cycles get through it?

If it was me making the decisions, I would angle the yellow road so it meets the blue at more of a right angle, therefore eliminating some of the traffic lights. Just a standard junction there. Rest of it looks fine, and is similar to road layouts in other places. That is ideally what you want. Give people a similar kind of road layout to what they've faced before, and you can't go wrong.

spilt the original roundabout into a two-roundabout junction.

I agree with other people about filtering Home Church lane to close it to motor vehicles. On a separate note, I really wish that local authorities would use materials that last. They put that skid resistant stuff down when new things are built but don't maintain it and then it looks incredibly scruffy because it wears so quickly.

Yes, from the air it does look a mess! The challenge for the highway department’s cartographers and civil engineers is apparent, but to my eye as a retired airframe structures designer in the aircraft industry it simply looks untidy. But, if it does the job……….Perhaps a flyover or underpass might be a better method?

No switch island maghull Liverpool. Millions spent. Had to come back and fit lights in the lanes, for vehicles to follow.

@PGvideoinc

Жыл бұрын

Yes, but the lights in the lanes are pretty good don't you think?

@thomasthompson4724

Жыл бұрын

@@PGvideoinc yeah going to apply for pilots licence to make sure i navigate them correctly.

It might help somewhat it it was all resurfaced black and new clean road markings put back. That current surface is almost the same colour as the paint. The intersection could do with a fly under and roundabout combination.

I use it regularly. Confusing first couple of times, especially from the north. Familiarity eases use. Far worse in other towns, lack of coherent signage is most irritating. Try Derby. Needs an exorcist .

@stiansoiland-reyes2548

Жыл бұрын

Is it helped that most newcomers will be going straight through, or would they also need to navigate several lights and turns ?

@philiptaylor8790

Жыл бұрын

@@stiansoiland-reyes2548 South to North easier. Just need to be in the correct short approach lane.

in terms of being a complex tangled mess, this is nowhere near as bad as the Eastgate roundabout in Gateshead town centre, or the Grove Farm triangle just outside Leicester; the latter is particularly bad as it forms the main access to Leicester from the motorway

The music helped! I'm convinced I agree now. It is a road junction. 👍🏻

I go through that occasionally. That was part of my HGV Class 1 (artic) test route, as the test centre is down one of those roads. If you think it seems bad with all those traffic lights, imagine they're not working - like on the day of my test! And I took my test at lunchtime, when people are popping out for lunch. But weirdly enough, it seems to work better without the traffic lights - they're only useful when the traffic is really heavy at rush hour.

Good grief, a balanced view. You can't do that on the interwebs, can ye? It all boils down to the signage around the intersection. There is a counterexample in Belgium, I think I saw it in Ath (spelling?). Said "all directions" and "other directions". Other solutions might have been available, like closing the smallest street, though that would route the traffic through other parts of the town - which might cause even more problems in other spots. Had that in my old home town.

This was an interesting and enjoyable video for a change, thanks for sharing.

Did the architect sneeze when he was drafting the plan for that junction?

@vallejomach6721

5 ай бұрын

The designer did not have a driving license and had never driven a car. By their own admission was a cyclist.

Remember the busy times are commuting times we’re you have regular users. When it was a roundabout you had no controlled pedestrian facilities you just had to leg it over 3 lanes. Also as a roundabout would cause a big delay to all the side roads when it was connecting to the Beverly Southern Relief Road at the straight through movement dominated in peak periods

I always think we could make use of coloured tarmac on these types of junction

@Janus-fn2uz

Жыл бұрын

What happens when it's covered in snow bright eyes?

Looks less confusing than some of the ones i learned to drive on in warrington (they have the roundabout with the most accidents in the northwest, cockhedge green, but imo the worst is wilderspool causeway or bridgefoot

This a good spot for driving instructors to make a potential learner fail a test. 😥

Exactly the reason why I take the road around the other side of Beverley when going East-West or the reverse. Road planners wanted to create an even worse mess in my own village, ripping the heart out of the village in the process, just so accommodate even more traffic. You could tell it was fake when they had a simulation running at 8x speed so it was impossible to see what was actually going on. Loaded HGVs setting off from a standstill at the same rate as cars??? Fortunately the villagers rebelled and voted it down by about 10:1.