Full Revelation Interview-kzread.info/dash/bejne/amqLvJpmotDVc7g.htmlsi=hSupfeI6Uln3dbQr

@larrybedouin2921

2 ай бұрын

Futurism is a counter-reformation false teaching, spawned from the pen of the Jesuit monk, Francoisco Ribera. circa. 1585 A.D. Preterism is a counter-reformation false doctrine spawned from the pen of the Jesuit monk Luis de Alcaser circa. 1601 A.D.

@elgindor

2 ай бұрын

You guys are doing way too much twisting of scripture of your own to get out of the rapture ideas. This isn’t new friends idk why you have a hard time with it. The real topic is when it is not if it’s real.

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

@@elgindor please provide specific examples of how we’re twisting scripture. INSIDE we went over each specific verse associated with the rapture and brought context from the actual narrative and story of the Bible. Please do tell🤷🏻‍♂️

@elgindor

2 ай бұрын

@@ringthembells143 You are twisting the verses to mean what you want them to mean. Revelation in particular. Rapture isn’t new Justin M, Celement,Didache all spoke on the rapture. Michael heisler would be disappointed by your lack of objectivity. He covered the whole concept of the rapture. You’re wrong it’s an American idea but right American church’s hold to it more than Europe or Auzzies. Which both have bent the knee to the Catholics and their false doctrine. Which gave rise to the reformation. Rapture isn’t a Darby thing that’s lazy. Do better brothers.

@BBStyles777

2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing, it actually made even more convinced that there is a rapture. My church does not believe, but this video has really made me lean more towards a rapture.

I don’t think they appropriately listened to the whole of Dr. Michael Heiser from that opening clip I think they missed a whole lot. I think they are inaccurately portraying his teaching, and it’s crazy! I believe his point is something akin to, no one has a handle on it so since the text can prove every variation… have your stance, if you want one, but be open or at least able to hear someone else’s, without a dismissal from the faith. And unfortunately, after the first two minutes, that’s exactly what every single speaker, including the channels host does, sad.

@BibleSamurai

2 ай бұрын

True

@francesomeara6602

2 ай бұрын

I agree. They used an edited version to push their version of the Bible. What kind of reward would it be to bring the wrath of God unto believers? It's the Time of Jacob's Trouble not the church.

@frankm6546

2 ай бұрын

Heiser for sure didn't have a dispensational theology with a rapture.

@duketta

2 ай бұрын

Long live Dr Mike! ( through his teachings)💖💖💖

@BibleSamurai

2 ай бұрын

@@duketta nah.. through Christ

This is the first time I've heard Mike's voice that I didn't feel to sad to continue listening. He is definitely missed.

@RabbiMurray

18 күн бұрын

Yes he is my favorite

Keep speaking truth Ring them Bells!!!😊

@parisreidhead

24 күн бұрын

Mark 13:27 “And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”

I dont think Jesus will come back until we learn how to love one another

@bertgoat

Ай бұрын

ok so he wont be coming back then

@bertgoat

Ай бұрын

ok so he wont be coming back then

Even when I was in high school the idea of a rapture never made sense. As I’ve studied the Bible through college and two seminaries, I am convinced that “The Left Behind” version of eschatology is wrong

@BoDog713

2 ай бұрын

Read about tradional Jewish weddings at the time and it will make sense. Another important point of delineation is that God is dealing with different groups of people through time. The Jews are his chosen, but they rejected him. The gentiles became the bride. You also have the unsaved. The bride is separate from the Jews getting their promised land. This is why the bride is not present when God is pouring out his final judgment on the Jews and the world.

When I first accepted Christ in my 30s, I bought all those faulty beliefs. However, throughout my Christian walk, as I got older and discovered Dr. Mike Heiser, I realized how naïve and mislead via ignorance I was. When our family moved, and we were trying to find a new church by visiting several, I was always approached with two questions: 1) Do you believe in an old Earth or young Earth? 2) Do you believe in a pre-trib rapture or which version of the rapture do you believe? Now it always amazes me that this is how I've been greeted, almost as if I have to justify my Christianity by answering these two questions to be considered a "real" Christian. After living here so many years, we STILL get these questions when meeting new people to the area. It never fails to boggle their minds when I say that: 1) I don't know, nor do I care, how old the Earth is, specifically because the Bible doesn't ever address that issue. Genesis 1 and 2 are about establishing God's Temple on Earth as a way to connect his supernatural and human families, and creating humanity as His representatives on Earth. It was also a polemical statement rebutting Babylon's stance that their god Marduk created their great city. The biblical scribes were emphatically stating that God was the creator of the entire world, not just a city, and that He created it all in just six days and rested on the seventh, demonstrating the superiority of YHWH as the God of gods. 2) I don't believe in any version of the Rapture because I don't believe Scripture supports any version of that view. Jesus only comes twice: a) at this incarnation and 2) at His second coming at the end of the age. After that, they look at me like a heretic....it's really sad.

@royalpriest89

2 ай бұрын

When was the end of age? The Bible clearly teaches it was to occur during the lifetime of some of his apostles. The second coming has already occurred.

@deborahgonzalezknight168

Ай бұрын

There are people I dont see because thats all they talk about. What a shock they will get.

@doncleveland1245

Ай бұрын

@@royalpriest89 Who do you know that is in glorious form like Christ? The Church will be glorified immortal after the second coming, and we will help many during the Millennial Reign. Sin will be almost completely absent during those 1000 years, do you really think we are there?

A very thoughtful episode; erudite and enjoyable. I’m not a Rapturist, btw…as others have said, just be ready! It will all happen in God’s perfect timing.

Imagine the heavenly body. Immortal and super powered. No more pain hunger thirst or tears. God with us at all times. Oh how great that will be!!!

Your program content is truly awesome. Thank you for bringing the good Bible teachers to your program, especially Dr. Michael Heiser. I miss him so much!

@parisreidhead

24 күн бұрын

Mark 13:27 “And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”

@davidson4090

9 күн бұрын

There’s honestly nothing awesome about it. Their interpretation of the scripture is based on liberal theology. Liberal theology is what brings forth the great apostasy and the coming of the Antichrist.

John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

@amyhenningsgard8618

2 ай бұрын

❤

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

Doesn't refer to the rapture, but to communion with God in _this_ life.

@RandyRoth-mo3lz

2 ай бұрын

to suggest that John 14:1-3 is about a rapture is to suggest that Jesus flat out lied to those He was directly speaking to.... every argument for a rapture is birthed out of deception.

@timbuckman4578

2 ай бұрын

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

@RandyRoth-mo3lz

2 ай бұрын

@@timbuckman4578 Isaiah 26:19 was fulfilled with Matt 27:51... notice how verse 19 states that the dead rise with Christ when He arose from the dead..... Scripture shows the division on how to rightly divide... please begin.. Every argument for a rapture is birthed out of deception. I did a video on this passage on a live video recently... there are several others that show the same prophecy that the rapturists confuse as "rapture" passages.

This was perfect, excellent choice of teachers, I subbed

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

Thanks 🙏🏻 and Welcome aboard

Jesus has been coming back for 2000 plus years! Only the Father knows!

@hc5327

2 ай бұрын

Listen to Pastor Allen Nolan. He’s a biblical Scholar. He knows Greek and Hebrew and teaches from the original Bible with KJV. You will learn exactly how to know and understand the Bible. His church is Cornerstone Fellowship. He also puts his videos on KZread free to all. His knowledge and of the Bible and history of the Biblical times is astounding.

Excellent video. Not here to argue or debate. Simply encouraging you to sit back and analyze why you believe or don't believe in a "rapture." Like Calvinism did you believe it from scripture or have you been "taught" to believe it. The majority of us attack each other from bias and preconceived ideas rather than studying for ourselves. Just like I used to. Be blessed.

@melaniehughes8909

29 күн бұрын

I think Calvinism is ALMOST right. Just too much emphasis on the fact that God's foreknowledge makes some elect and some destined for destruction. It erases all freewill and emphasizes that God hates some people. But I think that God loves the world and wishes that none would perish but that all would come to a saving knowledge of the gospel. I don't think He takes away our choices by His foreknowledge but that He just already knows what our choices will be

I’m Australian and was raised Catholic, we were taught about the rapture. Many Australians believe in the rapture

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

It is a well known and accepted fact that this is is almost exclusively an American concept. Obviously other countries will hear about it from America and emulate, but it is rare. The concept of rapture is an American phenomenon.

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

@@ringthembells143 No. The _pre-trib_ version is almost exclusively an American concept.

@robsimpson9282

2 ай бұрын

Yup. I were thinking that as well. I'm Australian but didn't grow up in the catholic church. Rapture is very much a doctrine in Australian churches.

@jaggedstarrPI

2 ай бұрын

That's fascinating. Like you, I was raised Catholic (still am) and when we got involved in the Charismatic Catholic movement, the rapture was also taught; but never from the alter/pulpit.

@marcusdumitru

2 ай бұрын

Americans are so naive. They think they invented everything. ​@@ringthembells143 No. Almost all the evangelicals in eastern Europe are pre-trib millennials, because this is a common teaching in neo-protestant churches, due to Darby and the brethren. Actually, I don't think I know anyone there who doesn't adhere to a pre-trib rapture view, it they are evangelicals. When they hear that Americans are abandoning this doctrine in droves, they stop in horror and disbelief, and think that God will be just in punishing the American culture into oblivion. I, myself, experienced many types of churches in the West and read arguments of many escatgological systems, but nothing convinced me against a pre-trib rapture, which is the most logical and beautiful conclusion I could get so far. It just makes sense. I just expect that God won't take everyone in the Church, in the same way it made it known in the scripture. One taken, one left behind to continue into a new age. Enoch&Noah, Elijah&Elisha, Moses&Joshua, etc... There is a pattern in this game called life. Also, most anti-pre-tribs don't understand the arguments and mock a caricature of the doctrine out of ignorance. They understand two separate "second comings", while Rapture is never understood by its proponents as a "coming", because Jesus doesn't really come. He takes us away... Well, some of us.

Yeah, one of the few things I'll agree to disagree with Dr. Heiser (And I miss him as much as any) Is in this one area, though I do agree with him that it's a minor side issue; but I don't see it matters if we get pulled into the clouds, or instantly pulled into the unseen realm. I don't see that it makes a difference. If there's a pre-tribulation rapture (as I believe), then we'll just be gone, wherever and however that occurs. Though personally, I think being instantly sucked up into the stratosphere would be quite a thrill. Better than Six Flags! And I agree with Mike that it's a sketchy idea, but let's look at it fairly and honestly. God seems to like being (as Heiser said) a bit cagey with His prophetic revelations, and also at times appears to have an appreciation for spectacular, flashy events and good theater. (Lots of examples in the scriptures!) I can absolutely see that God, who flooded the entire planet, parted the Red Sea, raised Lazarus from the dead, and walked on water would get a kick out of a good rapture. It would be a great way to start the Tribulation! After all, the things in Revelation that would follow that would make the rapture rather prosaic. But I'm fully prepared to be wrong about the rapture, and if so I expect to die gloriously as a martyr, but unlike Paul, I'm not sure I'll line up to go quietly into that good night, after all, it'd be Un-American! 🙏✝️👑✝️🙏 But it all goes to show, you never can tell what tomorrow may bring!

@sentinaludo1489

2 ай бұрын

Unless, one believes that the escapist idea of the whole church being raptured OFF the planet before it's destruction and the associated man created scaffolds of dispensational theology have been and are being perpetuated by anti-Christ spirits that influence spiritually ignorant souls and convinces the people that heaven is a destination after you die or are raptured off the earth, then sure, it probably doesn't matter. But I contend it does matter. If a seaman heads out leaving the West coast of America from The Port of Los Angeles on a trip to Hawaii, and he plots his directional course from the port, but the information of the exact location of Hawaii was not correct, he will miss any signs of land and travel off into open water to his death. It is similar to young souls that think they "Hear" the calling of God upon their lives. (Which I believe some truly do, but I question many) They enroll in a Bible college or seminary out of exuberance and youthful passion with flannel graph theology in mind and a world changing belief that vocational ministry is where Jesus Christ is at. (Which I believe He is to some extant) And what we have now leading the church's is 2 or 3 generations that were given the wrong directions to heaven. They have been taught a theology, eschatology, and hermeneutic that "Scripture says this, and this is the only way to interpret these passages." Primarily in the West, this has been futuristic, dispensational, pre-tribulation rapture belief. Which is just that, A BELIEF. But it is not THE truth. It may be A truth for it's adherents, but not for me and many of my archetypes. This "BELIEF", built upon a "System" of Biblical interpretation, has woefully ill-prepared young souls to properly interpret what is happening in the realms of the spirit right now that directly influences culture and society. Not to mention, equip the next generation to kick in the gates of hell through the Power of Jesus Christ in us, walking on earth in the Power of the Holy Spirit. To prepare for the 2nd appearance of our King. We are not going up to heaven to meet God, God came down to earth to be with us in the form of His Son Jesus. "All authority in heaven and on earth have been given to me," Jesus said. I'm not quite sure why people seems to believe that power on earth has somehow been given back to ha Satan. It hasn't. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand," Jesus said. It hasn't gone anywhere, except where the mostly sincere souls but spiritual morons have convinced people who are naive, ignorant or deceived otherwise. This is where I see the problem. Young souls, taught to believe in dispensational time and 2 distinct people groups in Gods Kingdom, with 2 distinct blessings and two distinct futures. One is Israel, whose blessing is earthly in the future. One is the Church, whose blessing is heavenly in the future. There is one flock, and one shepherd, and that is Jesus Christ. He is the "Thura", and through that door or portal or gate, we can enter into the heavens and find rest for our souls, and vision for the age to come. It is in the Spirit right now. We are waiting for the return of our King, who still rules in heaven and on earth, because all authority has been given to him, to consummate His Kingdom here on earth. Time is not linear. It is cyclical. The 1st isn't like the 2nd, and the 3rd isn't like the 1st. It is called eternal life. John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; the one believing in Me, even if he should die, he will live. and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” I don't think many Christians believe this, because they have never died. But I know a man, who in 1987 died in a horrific auto accident. I saw him slumped over the steering wheel of his 1967 Super Sport Camaro, head split open like a dropped cantaloupe, side of his body shredded open from car door metal, internal organs crushed with broken ribs. I was one of two eyewitnesses to live through this, many onlookers also saw the aftermath and have their own stories of this event. But somewhere between when they put the corpse in the ambulance and before in was put in the ground, the spirit came back into this young man, and after 3 days in a coma, a similar person came back into a paralyzed, dysfunctional meat suit, but not the same person. It was a person and a Spirit. As God as my witness and the heavenly courts above will bear witness to the truth of this testimony if you go into the spirit and ask, that man still walks about with us in this age today and you would never know the great tribulation this being went through unless he told you. It is the resurrection power of God through the Son of God in the Holy Spirit upon the earth today. That is eternity. That is everlasting life in the Son. For some people, it is like the forest through the trees metaphor. They cannot see the Kingdom through the people, or the religion. Relying on their 5 earthly senses, they are "looking" for the Kingdom of Heaven and the signs that precede it's coming. Allowing the narrative of today to influence and manipulate their lives and souls into believing a lie. Remember, it is ha-Satan that is speaking these lies, and he has his purpose until the Son of Man arises in your heart and we all welcome Him back into our world like the returning, conquering King He is . Book of UDO - A Transition of Ages

@jennifernash3549

Ай бұрын

That was Awesomely said!!! Thank you Agree to disagree I lean towards pre trib Always have And frequently go back and re check my position and still come to pre trib ❤

Looks like we’ll find out sooner rather than later… in the meantime, I never tire of this debate 😎

@RandyRoth-mo3lz

2 ай бұрын

Every argument for a rapture is birthed out of deception... Its not about interpretation... but deception... Matt 24:3,4, 2 Thess 2:1-3, 2 Peter 3:15-17

What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the KZread video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.

@Forseen-vm1qs

2 ай бұрын

Fully aligns with it , it is Jesus confirming the covenant made to Abraham , when Daniel was praying to GOD to forgive Israel for being disobedient praying That GOD would not cancel the promised covenant with Abraham

Thank you!!! I love N.T. Wright’s explanation of meeting Jesus in the air - as meeting a dignitary arriving & then accompanying him back down to earth. I Thes. 4:16-17. Jesus has stuff to do as King & conquering evil armies, etc. I am so glad Dr. Heiser’s teachings are with us! 🙏🏻 Dr. Halsted’s book sounds so good! Thanks to him for keeping it real as in global church. Not everything is about 1 country, continent or denomination.

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

You are most welcome ❤️🔔✅

@nyxspirited272

2 ай бұрын

WOAHHHH!! So youre reading another man's opinion on tbe Bible instead of reading it for yourself. 💀💀💀 Thats messed up

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

@@nyxspirited272 you are an angry internet Troll. Get back from here Satan!!!

@nyxspirited272

2 ай бұрын

@ringthembells143 That's what YOU THINK. Im not the one here acting like im so good at the game and rejoicing in calling God a liar every other minute 😯😯😯😯

It's not brand new as in previously unimagined. Paul taught it, as did Jesus Himself, but both did so obliquely because it was never the main point. The point was always much simpler: Be ready! Either the end of the world will come (when you least expect it), or you will reach the end of your own life (perhaps unexpectedly). It was always said, like, If you see this happen, BE ready because He is here. The doctrine of the "RAPTURE" is not so important that we should trouble ourselves about "theological correctness." If we are totally committed to Jesus, we have nothing to worry about even if we are "left behind." We can die for Him, or we can live for Him. Either way, He knows and loves his own, and He will claim us at the End.

@BentIronBins

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely i don’t think there’s a pre trib but maybe there is don’t know don’t care it will be however it will be. Just stay faithfull and strong. 🙏

@jasonleveck8546

2 ай бұрын

I really appreciate this perspective. I suppose it always boils down to faith in the person of Jesus The Christ!

@BecauseGrace

2 ай бұрын

Walk with Jesus according to His Word, overcome through Him and regardless of what the timing is… in the end you will be with Christ!

@sentinaludo1489

2 ай бұрын

Unless of course you believe there are false teachers and anti-Christs that are pushing a futuristic, dispesational, literal reading of apocalyptic literature to disarm and cripple the Saints of God in Jesus Christ. To push back and overcome the forces of darkness so when our King returns to His creation, He will know who are the good and faithful servants. If you believe heaven is a destination after you die or are "raptured" off the earth, Then get in the back of the bus and shut up. You are not helping prepare young, naive souls for the complete revelation of God in Jesus Christ. You are hindering the development of these people to become the elohims God has intended for them to become. And if one wants to minimize the effect this escapist, weak message of "the world is not my home" has had and is having on God's Kingdom on earth, then let us go in the spirit and go before the Throne of the almighty creator and His Holy council and let us ask for true wisdom and truth. Those who have a vested interest in the status quo of Western pop-eschatology that there vocation depends upon have a lot to loose when it becomes revealed they have believed and taught a half truth their entire ministry.. Udo has spoken!

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

Jesus was talking to Israel according to their prophecy. The context of what He told them was that they were about to go into their 70th week of their prophecy. Israel doesn't get raptured before their 70th week begins. It's their prophecy. What came instead of Israel's 70th week, was Paul's Dispensation of Grace for the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1-2), because Israel rejected their Messiah and their kingdom, they fell and diminished (Romans 11:11-12), so salvation (was of the Jews) came to the Gentiles through the Dispensation of Grace. Israel doesn't get raptured prior to their 70th week, only the Body of Christ Church gets raptured before Israel's 70th week begins.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

I love that you are getting the opinions of many different scholars and not just giving your opinions. I've seen many basement scholars pontificating on various subjects with no other feedback. If this is your format - I will look forward to viewing more of your content.

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

Welcome aboard🥳🔔✌️

@nyxspirited272

2 ай бұрын

Hahahahhahahah, Scholar, nice joke bro 😆, thats the kind of material they need at stand up comedy. The way you made a juxtaposition when you refered to those men as "scholars" but the irony is that none of them have actually read the Bible. And then you added the dichotomy of appearance vs reality, where they actually pretend to know the bible. That's 3 SOLISTIC DEVICES :O in one creative piece 😮. My english teacher would be proud of you 😉

Wow! Just the first 5 minutes of this video are extremely relevant

@nyxspirited272

2 ай бұрын

Yea, the best part of the whole video is at 46:31, I really liked that part

Short Answer: Yes

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

Long Biblical answer- kzread.info/dash/bejne/hmaFkqeeYridg8Y.htmlsi=MWM4qP-srLKY0Wgx

@jsamc

2 ай бұрын

Amen !!

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

@@ringthembells143 How does that negate 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

I’m not Pre Trib, Mid Trib, or Post Trib, I’m Pan Trib, IT WILL ALL PAN OUT IN THE END!!!! Praise God!!!

@jannaswanson271

Ай бұрын

Except that those who believe in the lie of the rapture will not prepare their faith. The faith that they do have will be sorely tested at about the time the mark of the beast is rolled out. The Scriptures DO NOT teach of a rapture. Even I Thessalonians 4:16-17 is the same event Yahusha tells us of in Matthew 24:29-31.

@doncleveland1245

Ай бұрын

@@jannaswanson271 Preparing our faith is not a thing. Believers already believe and are already saved and sealed. Adding something to what Christ did on the cross is a no-go, "Janna".

@jannaswanson271

Ай бұрын

@@doncleveland1245 Then the demons are saved as well because they believe He exists. The Parable of the Sower makes no sense then either if you cannot turn away from the Path. We are told constantly to run our race well. Why would we strive any longer if we are "sealed"? Even Paul knew he could still be disqualified. I Corinthians 9:27 Those who follow Christ have ceased from sin. (I Peter 4:1) Mark 16:17-18 describes a believer as, "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.” "Once saved always saved" is something the church teaches, it is not what the Scriptures teach.

@stephanieedwards3341

Ай бұрын

Yes!!! And it's freeing!

@jannaswanson271

Ай бұрын

@@stephanieedwards3341 The Bible specifically says when Yahusha will collect His Elect. In Matthew 24:29-31 and other places it is very clear.

I am so glad you gentlemen are all so very very content, blissfully unaware, upbeat, and blindly optimistic about a Humanist Heaven and Utopia on earth.

@jaggedstarrPI

2 ай бұрын

Except for the pejoratives such as "Humanist" they are quite happy about the Heaven AND NEW Earth that were the expectation and focus of Jesus' teaching. I hope you will reconsider. There's nothing threatening or frightening here. They're simply pointing out one area where perhaps the Church has missed the point a bit. But it's a disagreement between brother and sister Christians. We should all be on the same side, ultimately, even in disagreement.

2:29 yes, especially reading comments on all these different channels for their uploads. Exactly what I've been thinking.

This is very well done. I have subscribed after two videos. The scholarship is really good and you are kind but firm in your presentation. I was introduced to this teaching the same way as you described, but thankfully I was taught first to check everything against scripture and the Holy Spirit. I have NEVER been convicted by the Holy Spirit of "Rapture" doctrine. The only teaching I ever heard on a subject related to it was as an echo of Jesus' entry into Jerusalem (Palm Sunday). That makes spiritual sense to me and is basically the same scene as the author described with the greeting of royalty.

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

Praise God🥳🔔❤️

It may not be in Australia but it's been in NZ since my Dad's generation. He's in his 80's and I'm in my 40's. I'm the anomaly in my family and church congregation because I don't hold to the American Evangelical view on the rapture

..the dead in Christ shall rise first..then those alive and remaining will be caught up with them to meet Jesus in the air...(It doesn't say "will be transformed with them) I say this respectfully and open to what others have to say.... Ultimately lets just get to heaven! 🙏

The video I've been waiting for!

@ericbramlett4404

2 ай бұрын

Amen! Its Amazing how when TRUTH is spoken you just KNOW it's the Truth! Praise God!

@parisreidhead

24 күн бұрын

Mark 13:27 “And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”

"Happens mainly in American Evangelicalism..." Someone once said to me that pre-tribulation rapturism is an American phenomenon. I immediately got on a social gathering website and sent 50 messages to 50 different people who put "Christian" on their profiles. My first question was if they believed and the rapture of the church, and second, if they did believe in the rapture, did they believe it would be pre-trib. It turned out that 49 out of the 50 believed in a pre-trib rapture. I then asked them WHY they thought the rapture would come before the tribulation, and their unanimous answer was that it was in the Bible." I was blessed to teach in an underground church in China for six months. I can assure you, they too believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. WHY do people around the world believe in a pre-tribulation rapture? It is simple: it is what the Bible teaches us when read with no preconceptions. What many people miss is that after giving the Jews ample time to believe that Jesus was their Messiah after He rose from the dead, God put blindness in part upon the Jews, sent Paul to the Gentiles, and began a special dispensation for the new Gentile church. It just makes good sense, and it is scriptural, that God will END Paul's special dispensation for the Gentiles at the pre-tribulation rapture, and then begin His end-time game: the Day of the Lord for the nations and the 70th Week of Daniel to finish up the Jewish age. The rapture will end Paul's dispensation for the Gentiles, then the 7th bowl will end the final seven years for the Jews, and then the millennial reign will begin.

Christians, please 🙏🏻. Jesus is coming soon. We know the season. It’s here. Jesus said he goes to prepare a place for you. He says those who trust Him are not appointed to wrath. He said let no man steal your crown that he will give to those who love His appearing. He also promises us new glorified bodies that will be immortal. The rapture is our blessed hope. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that hope and yes it’s biblical. Please ask yourself what the motivation behind debunking a hope that Paul clearly taught would be. Please consider it. We will experience heaven during the tribulation and then return to Earth with Jesus during the millennium. After the 1,000 years there will be a new heaven and new earth. This plan is not a mystery and we should know this beautiful plan because it is sure and true. All of God’s promises will be fulfilled ❤🙏🏻.

@rocketmanshawn

2 ай бұрын

The blessed hope is seeing Jesus, not escaping.

@Strongtower

2 ай бұрын

There is something wrong with that hope because it's false hope. The Bible nowhere teaches a pretrib rapture. It teaches that the coming of our Lord and our gathering to Him are one event.

@pameladecker8672

2 ай бұрын

YeShua already reigned His 1000 year reign,.. we are living in the short season of Satan’s release.

@remnant8898

2 ай бұрын

@@Strongtower actually the bible give evidence for a pretrib rapture, as this and the 2nd coming are tow distinct events, happening at different time periods.

@Strongtower

2 ай бұрын

@@remnant8898 Can you give me any Scripture passages that say this?

It’s amazing to see the citizens of the empire striking back!

Liked and shared. Think you for this video! Very interesting and well presented!!

@ringthembells143

Ай бұрын

Thanks! That really means a lot!🔔❤️

None of the scholars of Jesus’s time recognized Him and none of our scholars will recognize Him returning until He’s here. Point being, watch and pray that you may be ready as Jesus warned many times.

I remember a video dr. Heiser speaking with other theologians of the upcoming raptures.... this was back in 05...

Not until the son of perdition is revealed! No pretribe! Those who endure to the end shall be saved! Matt 24...29,30,31!

@hc5327

2 күн бұрын

That’s the people who become Believers in Jesus call the Tribulation Saints. They will be martyrs. There is a 7 yr Tribulation. 1260 days first half 1260 days second half. Called Daniels 70 weeks. Read Daniel. Everything is perfectly planned by God.

None of this matters,whether it happens before or after,the inly thing that matters,is to live your life according to his will,the end goal is to be with God in the end!

Every Christian believes in the Rapture because it is in the Bible, that's out of the question ... we only disagree on the timing of the Rapture: 1- Just before the 7 years of tribulation 2- In the middle of the tribulation 3- At the end of the tribulation

this fascinating

Yes, the event we have named The Rapture is Biblical. However, the often taught pre-Tribulation rapture is not Biblical. The Rapture is a co-event with Jeshua's 2nd coming, at the end of the 3.5 year (not 7 years) period of time we have named The Great Tribulation.

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 says the Body of Christ Church is raptured prior to Israel's 70th week. Israel doesn't get raptured before their 70th week begins. That wouldn't make any sense. It's their prophecy. I think the confusion comes from not knowing the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ Church.

@JustinCase-em6ql

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 Wrong! There are 4 events supplied to us in these verses. 1) The coming of our Lord verse 1 2) Our gathering to our Lord verse 1 This event is referred to as The Day of the Lord in verse 2 3) The rebellion and 4) the man of lawlessness is revealed. We are to that the first two events, reterred to as The Day of our Lord will Not occur until event 3 & 4 take place. The rebellion is, obviously, the 3.5 year period we have named The Great Tribulation, and the man of lawlessness is, obviously The Anti-Christ. Verse 4 goes on to describe the man more. The following verses go on to describe The Great Tribulation and the Anti-Christ activity and destruction by the word of our Lord Jeshua. You need to research matters more thoroughly and carfully. You are conversing with a man that has spent his life researching all of the Biblical controversies people argue over ad nauseum. There is no such pre-Tribulation rapture. People only teach it because it is so scary a period of time for christians. Btw, the reason The Great Tribulation is named as such is because it will be an unprecendented time of persecution of the church. Read Mattthew 24 and all of the other verses regarding this period of time throughout the Bible. Some people teach this falsehood also because westerners think so highly of themselves that they don't want to accept our Lord would let his people experience such persecution. I've got news for you. The jews have suffered great tribulation, and the 1st through 3rd centure church suffered atrocious persecution. Believers in many countries suffer terrible persecution to this day! Sorry. I know it's scary, but that is the truth. Take care.

@JustinCase-em6ql

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 Wrong! We are supplied four events in these verses. 1) The coming of our Lord (v.1) 2) Our gathering to him (v.1) These events are associated with The Day of our Lord (v.2) 3 & 4) The rebellion, and the man of lawlessness is revealed and destroyed (v.4) In verse 3 we are told The Day of our Lord will not occur until AFTER the man of sin is revealed and destroyed by our Lord Yeshua. So, just like in all other rapture verses, we are told our gathering to our lord is at the end of The Great Tribulation. Verses 4 thru 10 go on to describe the man of lawlessness in greater detail. This man is obviously the anti-Chist, and this is obviously during the 3.5 year period we have named The Great Tribulation. You need to research things more thoroughly and carefully. You are conversing with a man that has spent all of my adult life researching all of the Biblical controversies many argue over ad nauseum. The only reasons this false teaching is pushed is because preachers do not want to teach this depressing material to the flock. Also, westerners think too highly of themselves, thinking our Lord would not let his people go through a time of unprecedented persecultion. I've got new for you. The jews have suffered much persecution, and so did the 1st thru 3rd century church. Even today, persection of believers is extreme in many countries. By the way, the reason this period of time has been named The Great Tribulation is because of this unprecented persecution of the church by the hands of the Anti-Chist and The False Prophet. You need to read the many more verses throughout the Bible that discuss this matter. Sorry. I know it's scary, but that is the truth. We must persevere. Take care.

@JustinCase-em6ql

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 Wrong! We are supplied four events in these verses. 1) The coming of our Lord. verse (v.1) 2) Our gathering to him verse. (v.1) These events are associated with The Day of our Lord (v.2) 3 & 4) The rebellion, and the man of lawlessness is revealed and destroyed (v.4) Verses 4 thru 10 go on to describe the man of lawlessness in greater detail. This man is obviously the anti-Chist, and this is obviously during the 3.5 year period we have named The Great Tribulation. You need to research things more thoroughly and carefully. You are conversing with a man that has spent all of my adult life researching all of the Biblical controversies many argue over ad nauseum. The only reasons this false teaching is pushed is because preachers do not want to teach this depressing material to the flock. Also, westerners think too highly of themselves, thinking our Lord would not let his people go through a time of unprecedented persecultion. I've got new for you. The jews have suffered much persecution, and so did the 1st thru 3rd century church. Even today, persection of believers is extreme in many countries. By the way, the reason this period of time has been named The Great Tribulation is because of this unprecented persecution of the church by the hands of the Anti-Chist and The False Prophet. You need to read the many more verses throughout the Bible that discuss this matter. I know it's scary, but that is the truth. We must persevere. Take care.

@JustinCase-em6ql

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 Wrong! We are supplied four events in these verses. 1) The coming of our Lord (v.1) 2) Our gathering to him (v.1) These events are associated with The Day of our Lord (v.2) 3 & 4) The rebellion, and the man of lawlessness is revealed and destroyed (v.4) In verse 3, we are told The Day of our Lord will not occur until AFTER the man of lawlessness is revealed and destroyed by our lord Yeshua. So, as all other verses regarding what we have named The Rapture, we are told it takes place at the end of the period of time we named The Great Tribulation. Verses 4 thru 10 go on to describe the man of lawlessness in greater detail. This man is obviously the anti-Chist, and this is obviously during the 3.5 year period we have named The Great Tribulation. You need to research things more thoroughly and carefully. You are conversing with a man that has spent all of my adult life researching all of the Biblical controversies many argue over ad nauseum. The only reasons this false teaching is pushed is because preachers do not want to teach this depressing material to the flock. Also, westerners think too highly of themselves, thinking our Lord would not let his people go through a time of unprecedented persecution. I've got new for you. The jews have suffered atrocious persecution, and so did the 1st thru 3rd century church. Even today, persection of believers is extreme in many countries. By the way, the reason this period of time has been named The Great Tribulation is because of this unprecented persecution of the church by the hands of the Anti-Chist and The False Prophet. You need to read the many more verses throughout the Bible that discuss this matter. I know it's scary, but that is the truth. We must persevere. Take care.

I agree that the whole world of the bible is the middle eastern world, however, in Rev. 3:10 Jesus made a point of saying the whole inhabited world. This means beyond the biblical world, and refers to the entire planet.

I was taught that within Ancient Near Eastern context, to meet someone in the air meant to meet them outside the walls of the city. But our king in coming from Heaven, and not 10 mikes down the road for example. This is why we meet him in the clouds. It’s figurative language the intended audience would have understood. We have to remember, the Bible was written for us, but not to us. We really need to study the ANE to more clearly understand scripture the way a first century believer would have.

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

Why would you assume "in the air/clouds" is figurative language? Jesus "was taken up before their very eyes, and _a cloud_ hid him from their sight. . . . [S]uddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 'Men of Galilee,' they said, 'why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back _in the same way_ you have seen him go into heaven.' " (Acts 1:9-11)

@Johnny_3_Putt

2 ай бұрын

@@andyderksen8455 it’s not an assumption. It’s the way a first century believer would have understood the words. Quoting a random passage from Acts has nothing to do with a passage from Thessalonians. You can’t take a little of this and a little of that out of context and create a doctrine.

So I do not hold to a pretrib rapture, per Matt 24, etc. I do see a IThess 4 rapture at the end of trib on the church. How does this book align with post trib, literal/physical return of Jesus?

@markanthony3275

Ай бұрын

I point out that Mathew ch 24 , because of it's many jewish only references, like, the "abomination of desolation',"the temple", "the sabbath", "the rooftops", " the Judean countryside", "the elect", and perhaps "the fig tree"...is about ISRAEL, not the church. Look at what Jesus said " Unless those days had been shortened even the elect wouldn't survive" What elect was He talking about? The elect mentioned in Zechariah ch 13:8-9 which says .... " In the whole land" declares the Lord, "two thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third will be left in it. This third I will bring into fire ; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold." Zechariah is the Old testament version of the book of Revelation. It is about what happens to Israel during the Tribulation, many people do not understand this, or do not consider what it says and how it effects eschatology.

- 'for ye will surely die [as] >in the day that ye do' :as to the process of...

“Shocking revelation” 😏 nice

I agree 💯!

@carson7467

2 ай бұрын

☝️ in a “rescue”! It’s how Jesus rolls ❤.

It is really so simple to understand... the church... the True Believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will be taken either alive or if sleeping Christ we will be caught up to meet him in the air... so we shall ever be with him. ...He went to prepare a place for us in his father's house..and if it were not so ..He would not have told us that... my prayer is Maranatha Lord Jesus come quickly...

The teachings of John Nelson Darby, and from him CI Schofield, have so influenced American evangelical thought. And all of those teachings are imposed. Upon scripture they don’t come from scripture. I think this is one of the biggest heresies in the modern church.

@user-fc2hb3de2w

2 ай бұрын

The teaching of the catching away did not originate with Darby. The early church fathers also debated the timing of the rapture. Did Martin Luther invent 'saved by faith'? No, he rediscovered it after the Roman church had buried it.

@markanthony3275

2 ай бұрын

The rapture, while being lumped in with dispensationalism, is in the Bible and was taught by John and Paul. The problem is everyone seems to start half way through the scriptures on this topic....and then their explanation isn't very convincing. The starting point for Biblical proof of a pre-tribulational rapture is Jesus Christ...His person and His work. This can be found in 1st John 4:1-3 which says " Dear friends, do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see if they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God but every spirit that DENIES that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God. This is the spirit of antichrist whom you have heard is coming and even now is in the world." What bearing does this have on the rapture? Notice John's emphasis on Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. Becoming flesh was the only way He could take our sin upon Himself on the cross as an acceptable substitute before the Father. But He also took something else upon Himself on the cross...God's WRATH...the WRATH we deserved for our sin. When somebody believes or teaches that the Church will again be subject to God's WRATH, which is what the Tribulation is, they are saying that He never dealt with it on the cross. This is a form of DENYING that He came in the flesh and it weakens His person and diminishes His work and the costly salvation we received! Where does John say denial that Jesus came in the flesh comes from? The spirit of antichrist...the demonic. Now look how John's teaching with it's implications for the satisfying of God's WRATH is picked up by Paul when he writes to the Thessalonians on the topic of the rapture. Paul writes " You are NOT appointed unto WRATH..." Everybody gets that part but look at the rest of the sentence ..."But to receive SALVATION through our Lord Jesus Christ!" So Paul ties the escape from WRATH, which is what the Tribulation is, to the person and work of Jesus Christ on the cross...where He dealt with God's WRATH so that we are saved from it. John also repeats this warning about people who teach anything that DENIES that Jesus came in flesh in 2nd John , where he also says do not receive such a person or you will be part of their wickedness. This is a much more serious topic than simply a disagreement about what scripture means...John makes that crystal clear...twice! Everything must start with Jesus Christ including prophecy " For the testimony of Jesus Christ IS the spirit of prophecy (Rev) .

@mcgeorgerl

2 ай бұрын

@@user-fc2hb3de2w You stated, "The early church fathers also debated the timing of the rapture." I'd say, "No, they did not," In my experience, the only usage of the word "rapture" carries with it the idea of euphoria, never ever any resurrection event. Thanks to modern .pdf versions of the ECFs that are word searchable, it is now easily demonstrated just what they believed about the resurrection of the dead, the joining of the living and Second Advent. Whenever I encounter well-meaning believers in these forums who think something akin to, "Irenaeus taught the Rapture.", I simply challenge them to cite the passage or passages from the ECFs. So far, I'm batting 100% and none have been able to do so. And when you search the ECFs for words like, 'resurrection' and 'advent' it can be easily seen their position(s).

@Forseen-vm1qs

2 ай бұрын

Greek word Harpazo is to snatch away living people and transport them to another place or time , it was translated into the Latin as rapiemur in the Latin Vulgate , then translated into rapturo in English and then rapture , the KJV uses " catch away " or " caught away/ caught up " People that think the bible was originally written in English have a lot to learn

@Forseen-vm1qs

2 ай бұрын

There is scripture that clearly shows harpazo prior to the Tribulation , but the Churches do not see it because they are not interested in anything not taught by seminary , it is very very clear , however you must see it in it's original language , big problem people have when they expect it to be in English and do not study to learn

This is awesome

i'm buying this book

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

You won’t regret it ✅🔔✅

We are ment to stand up for truth and grace and mercy

Idk, Jesus said his return and gathering would be after the great trib. I think that pretty much sums it up…. None of the NT books, or OT for that matter speak about pre trib without insane amounts of hoop jumping and leaving verses out.. They all say at the final trumpet..

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 tells of two different comings of the Lord. One is the day of the Lord when He actually returns to earth and sets up His Kingdom. The other is our gathering together unto Him. One of those Comings, Paul was looking for (1 Thessalonians 1:10, Philippians 3:20, for example). The other coming, the Day of the Lord, Paul was not looking for. He said THAT DAY (the day of the Lord) will not come except... Actually, Paul was the only NT writer to say that day shall not come, the Kingdom is not at hand. Because Israel fell and diminished because they rejected it all. So, salvation (was of the Jews) came to the Gentiles (Romans 11:11-12) in a Dispensation of Grace (Ephesians 3:1-2).

@Bazooka_Sharks

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 it doesnt tell of two. You are presupposing that.

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

@@Bazooka_Sharks I just proved to you that Paul was writing of two different comings of the Lord. I understand that you don't believe it, but if you have issue with my "proof," let's hear it. But I'm not going to reject the Word of God just because you don't believe it.

@Bazooka_Sharks

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 you didnt prove anythjng. Paul says “Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.” It’s literally the same event.

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

@@Bazooka_Sharks Actually, Paul is beseeching them with one coming that they be not worried about the other coming being near. Read it... without the presuppositions.

I’m on the fence: does He come like a thief in the night, or with a shout and trumpet? Is it one coming or two?

@nyxspirited272

2 ай бұрын

Remember how his first coming, he came in two parts... PART 1 - born as a regular human then he died PART 2 - he walked on the earth 40 days after his ressurection then went to heaven So now to balance that equation, the second coming is also going to be in two parts PART 1 - Rapture PART 2 - Armageddon Boom Chemistry And if you are going to say "but that isnt the second coming, it would be the 4th". If we go like that then THE SECOND DEATH is not going to be a thing. If the Bible was actually supposed to be numbered like that then it would be like the 449th billion death. But its the second death 😋

On "the whole world" idea at the 18:30 mark (or so), the Greek word is οἰκουμένη and refers to the Roman World; in fact, the NASB translation has as a possible translation in its notes, "the Roman Empire." In fact, this conception of the word was visualized as a personification as a woman (political entities were personified as women on statuary, reliefs, etc.). In one famous ancient artifact, the Gemma Augustea, Oikoumenē is seen placing a crown in the emperor Augustus (representing Jupiter). This gemma may be searched online and seen.

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

Question: If the ancient Greeks wanted to refer to the whole _planet,_ how do you know they wouldn't have used οἰκουμένη?

The best description of this is the movie Aladdin… “prince Ali fabulous he Ali Abba…” That is what was in the mind of the ancient people…

We are to come to Him as little children with love and joy and thankfulness and irrepressible curiosity, not as world-class intellectuals whatever their individual merits might be. It is true you can't always work out things definitively from the text, but this cuts both ways ... the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Of course, it's just a matter of when you put it on the eschatological timeline that is typically debated.

"How would a resurrected body meet his or her spirit in the air and in the clouds: how would they SEE this spirit." It will be the human spirits finding their bodies, for the soul will be with the spirit. Simple: the spirit will know where their body was buried and will be waiting in the air for their body to resurrect. Remember, spirits know even as they are known. They will be able to SEE their resurrection body and KNOW it is theirs.

Spot on! These are the same conclusions I came to.

Pre-trib teachers seem to ignore Rev 20:4-6. "This is the first resurrection. The rest of the dead do not come to life until after the 1,000 years are complete." There is only one resurrection before the 1,000 years! All the scriptures used by Pre-trib teachers are applicable to a post-trib rapture. Teach the truth. Teach: The sacrifices will start and end before Jesus returns. We rise with the two witnesses on the day Jesus returns!

Context and correct translation is everything when studying scripture. The Holy Spirit is our teacher not man made doctrines.

- the song SPIRITS IN THE MATERIAL WORLD/The Police

So this is the thing that always brings me back to the doctrine of the rapture. So read revelation 19:6 continue to read chapter 19 and read through chapter 20 when Jesus comes down to the earth for his second coming. I just can I don't understand how the church gets in heaven for the marriage supper of the lamb and at the beginning of chapter 20 it says then, I repeat, then, so it is in chronological order. Jesus comes down with the church for his second coming. How does the bride (the church) get to heaven for the marriage supper of the lamb before Jesus descends to the earth followed by the church?

Are you aware that this "rapture of the church" idea is not a historical teaching of the church? To the surprise of many, rapture-based theology has only been around for the past couple hundred years and predominantly in America. The biblical scholar, N.T. Wright, refers to it as an "American obsession" and notes that few Christians in the U.K. hold any sort of belief in it. Paul said *WE that are alive and remain- which is a second person personal pronoun -Meaning Paul and the Thessalonian Church to who He writes. 1 Thes.4:13-17 is a short chronology of the resurrection (not a rapture) that had already begun John 5:25 (ie. NOW IS) and the time coming would be consummated at the end of the Old Covenant AGE in 70 (Mt.13:39,40,49-Dan12:2,7) when the power of the Holy People was completely shattered. The origins of rapture theology lie in 1830 Scotland where a fifteen year old girl, Margaret MacDonald, claimed to see a vision of a "two-stage return of Yeshua. Then John Nelson Darby, a British evangelist and the founder of the Plymouth Brethren, took MacDonald's vision and created an entire system based off of it in which Yeshua returns not once (as Christians have always believed), but twice! The idea of a "physical rapture" is nowhere to be found in the Bible, neither is it taught there. In fact Jesus prayed against such a thing! John 17:15 "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. There is no Scriptural support for it. This escapist philosophy is pure fiction. We are not taught to escape reality in the Scripture, but rather to face it knowing that God will work all things out for our good (Romans 8:28-30) Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:18. Are these words still a comfort to us? Yes, they are. We are comforted in the fact that as believers, we are now in the presence of the Lord, we are not waiting for anything. We are now in His presence, and when we die we will leave the physical realm and move into the heavenly/spiritual realm.

Do you think new heaven and a new earth means literally new or the existing renewed?

@nyxspirited272

2 ай бұрын

Literally new. God is going to destroy heaven and earth with flames, because they have been tainted with sin and then he'll create a brand new one

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

Anyone that answers this question was certainty is full of it. This is a cosmic question that the Bible only gives us broad brush strokes of answers for. God will renew all things. He will unite heaven and earth. All creation has been in labor pains. The new creation coming is going to add to not detract from our current earthly experience, in my opinion ✌️❤️🔔

"Joiners" versus "dividers..." Do the scriptures, correctly understood, give us a choice of whether we believe in TWO comings or only one? No, the scriptures clearly point to TWO MORE COMINGS when rightly divided and correctly understood.

Parece una gran variedad de menús, algunos son de comida rápida espiritual.

In short, to answer the question in your title, NO!

In searching the scriptures a nugget for the rapture and it is in Titus. It is so simple.

The 7 Churches can definitely relate to a double edge sword... A timeline of all 7 Churches throughout 2000yrs of Church history Laodicean Church referring to the present Church now. And 7 different individual believers sitting in the pew at any one time throughout Church history...

@ringthembells143

Ай бұрын

Hi Mario. We address that specifically inside this interview. Check it out- kzread.info/dash/bejne/amqLvJpmotDVc7g.htmlsi=J3gDmFiRbjkPitAv

How do the 'dead in Christ rise first' when the dead in Christ are already in heaven? If this is spiritual and only spiritual and not a physical resurrection, do the 'dead in Christ' spirits leave heaven, go to the grave and then spiritually rise up, while leaving the physical body in the grave? Why would God have this happen?

On the 1 Thess 4:15-17 passage, see the doctoral dissertation work of my student Stephen Knisely who investigated this passage in detail against the background of the Cosmic Mountain and final eschatological battle backgrounds. This passage is not about a rapture as envisioned by many, but about a resurrection/battle against evil powers and occupying the final high ground on the mountain "in the air" where we will reign with Christ forever.

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

🙄 Garbage. (a) Nothing in the immediate context indicates this is figurative language. (b) There's no standard "Cosmic Mountain" motif in Scripture. And (c): Jesus "was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. . . . [S]uddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 'Men of Galilee,' they said, 'why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.' " (Acts 1:9-11)

What I think I'm slowly learning is the Holy Spirit does it for you through you so the two of you can grow together and your relationship with Jesus and the Father grows at the same time since they're all one. They didn't have a Bible and then 50 versions and all the other study aids during Paul's time and didn't he say, tell them get back to work until?

The Airforce 1 Boeing 747 needs a really long strip for take-off and landing; about 2 miles?

At 35 minutes in Tim Mackie makes the clear case against Darbyism. Great work. N.T. is clear here too. Good stuff. Maybe the American Evangelical movement can grow into this position and away for the terrible Dispensationalism that currently possesses her.

@textaylor312

2 ай бұрын

I didn't find it that way at all. Sounded to me like the man took his own pre-conceived biases, found a few "scholars" to tickle his own ears, which in turn made him feel warm and fuzzy. Let me ask you a question, those like you who condemn American's Evangelical Community? Which side of the debate is quickly becoming irrelevant in the cause, and which side still influencing new disciples in numbers? Just the numbers. If you are sure there isn't a rapture, show many anywhere where in the Book of Revelation the "Church" is even mentioned after Chapter 5 to the beginning of Chapter 20? I dare you... Frankly, I find people like you and this Ring Them Bells site lukewarm and have no further need to listen to you.

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

Without seeing the Dispensation given to Paul for the Gentiles, you can not fully understand Scripture. You'll probably end up thinking that you are Israel and that you get all of their promises and their inheritance.

@Boxerr54

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 But the Bible DOES say the promises to Israel are to Gentile believers too. We too are called a royal priesthood. Dispensationalism is a dead end of many contradictions.

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

@@Boxerr54 Show me where the Bible says that we are a royal priesthood. Show me where the Bible says the promises to Israel are to the Gentiles, too.

@Boxerr54

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 You will only learn when you find the contradictions for yourself. Best of success in doing so.

It is generally an American thing..." This is due to the great awakening where so many in North America were born again, while the church was dying out in Europe, and had not expanded much in the rest of the world. More Americans began to study the Word of God and less Europeans, because the church was shrinking there.

Do either of you consider the ancient Hebrew wedding examples that are repeatedly set out in the Old Testament Scriptures?

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

The Entire Hebrew Narrative is considered into this discussion. It points to Jesus coming here to earth to rule with his Bride.

Ah Arrogance pride I sense and debating Gods Word ,denying the truth,each to his own, the Holy Spirit I ask to convict each one to his own conscience❤In the Name of Jesus Christ,His blood covers all,even all of our own self wisdom and ignorance..may we repend and keep our eyes on Him and turn it away from ourselves and our own opinions.

We are referred to being the bride.. Jesus spoke about this as an event of the marriage as of the marrige that the galileen would under stand.. you talked about how the people would go out to greet the king.. and would come back into town to give him a grand entry.. good example.. but here is a rapture point of view.. Jesus told his disciples that he goes to prepare a place for them .. that where he was they may be also.. in a gallileen marriage.. the bride was offer the cup to drink from.. if she drank from the cup.. they were betrothed to each other.. at that point..the groom would then go to his fathers house and prepare a place to bring his bride home to.. not even the groom knew when he would return.. Only the grooms father would knw when he could return for his bride.. the bride did not know when the groom would return.. she had to be ready for anytime.. and all the people that were to take part in it had to be ready also.. if you slept through the groom returning.. you missed out on the wedding.. usually sometime in the middle of the night.. could be a year later in most cases..the father would look around and when he saw the building was fit.. he would wake up his son and tell him .. the time has come.. go get your bride.. him and his groomsman would march back to town to go get his bride.. so when Jesus told his disciples that no oe but the father knows the hour.. they understood what he was saying because they understood the marriage.. then the groom would go grab his bride and they would go back to the fathers house and it would be a 7 day celebration.. so we still have 1 week left in Daniels 70 weeks prophesy.. the 69 weeks led to Jesus.. if he comes for his bride like a thief in the night.. and brings us home to the fathers house.. we are left with the final 70th week.. the tribulation period.. the 7 days which are 7 years.. the tribulation period is God pouring out his wrath on the earth.. why would he make his sons bride be a part of his judgement.. that doesn't make sense to me.. yes the anti christ will rise.. but that is God allowing it as he is punishing the evil in this world.. and israel is going through its persecution.. but will come back to God the father.. there is so much people leave out.. just study all the way through.. the bible is a whole book.. not a few chapters or verses that complete the story.. just in my opinion.. that is why i believe in the pre trib rapture.. but either way i am the Lords.. and the rapture debate is just opinion.. but not a salvation debate.. but if you are debating it.. more than likely you are in your word.. seeking knowledge.. and are Christs.. and more than likely are on the salvation side anyways.. God bless you all.. and i hope i gave you something to research.. Christ either way is COMING BACK!!!!

I just got the awareness that it is biblical that some will be raptured. It’s references in multiple areas outside of Paul’s quotes. The wedding procedures of the Hebrews is also what Jesus is acting by aswell. The tribulation is truly for those that aren’t close to God, believers and non believers. It isn’t simply believers being punished by evil. It is a consequence to who never ignores God and isn’t in a strong pursuit of being right with him .

Why is Matthew 24:32-34 not considered??

@dominoediggs4790

2 ай бұрын

Well, majority of Matthew and many other verses throughout His Word. Or better yet, I'd like to know both of your explanations/thoughts for the translation of the ancient greek word "Harpazo" that appears 13 times in the Bible? 5x translated to : " Caught away" "caught up" 8x translated to: " forcibley seize upon, "snatch away," etc. * I know the host said he " reads a lot of books." Just curious if you're versed on the one that truly matters.

@doncleveland1245

Ай бұрын

It is for Israel. Jesus tells you this "I am only sent for the lost sheep of Israel..." and this is in Matthew 15. Study up!

There are going to be a lot of Christians pissed off with their pastors when the rapture doesn't happen and people find themselves in last plagues.

@nyxspirited272

2 ай бұрын

The reverse is true :/

@MichaelSekich

2 ай бұрын

The reverse is also true

"1 thes 4 is awesome!!"

I was really disheartened by this video. Not because I disagree (that’s NOT the issue at all) but, because it was completely unbalanced and biased. While the late Dr Heiser doesn’t take a position the other teacher takes a definite doctrinal position and calls the rapture an American way of understanding the scripture as if only citizens of the U.S.A. were the only individuals with this position. I think I remember him (the person being interviewed) saying “It’s not that way across the pond”. What pond??? Friend, if this is really going to be a teaching channel, and you’re going to take on uncontroversial subject matters, then at least have a counterposition to your teachings. Also, don’t “paint with broad strokes”, is it factual that Churches outside the United States do not ascribe to the “rapture” doctrine? Really? Is that what poll numbers say? C'mon, this channel can do better.

@lufax

2 ай бұрын

"across the pond" is an expression commonly used to refer to the separation of England and the US. The person mentioned it tongue-in-cheek as the US and Australia, making a parallel to the actual use

@lufax

2 ай бұрын

To your actual point, no, not only US churches believe this, but it is a distinct doctrine created and exported by the US

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

The Bible explicitly teaches a rapture (just not the pre-trib version).

@lufax

2 ай бұрын

@@andyderksen8455 I agree. But I believe, from what I gather, they are talking exclusively of a rapture happening pre-Second coming when they use the term rapture. I too dislike this oversimplification

1Th ch4 & 1Th ch5 Paul talks about the rapture though he doesn't use the word rapture. Then in 2nd Th2:1-8 "Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to DECEIVE you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and then the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that he will be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is removed. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed" NASB This passage tells us the order of events. FIRST the rapture (He who now restrains will do so until He is removed) THEN the revealing of the antichrist and the tribulation.

The Rapture narrative we know today began in the 1820's by John N. Darbey. Schofield and Moody brought it to America. When dealing with this topic, every aspect of this topic, you must look towards the history of the teachings. As I continue to watch this video I have to say there is much your missing.

Two witnesses (of Enoch & Elijah raptured), both of the olive trees of Zachariah 4. One old covenant and still in context. The other in consort from the beginning but of the new covenant/ way. Both pouring themselves into the golden bowl for the seven lamps/ church ages. This is the end from the beginning, nothing new under the sun. And the two become one; and the return in the advent of repture that brings forth jealousy, for the chosen peculiar people of promise, as it is written!

CHILE MENTIONED!!!

I ask anyone who believes in the Rapture to read Matthew Chap. 24. Especially verses 1 through 30. In this chapter we read that those who believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be delivered up and killed. Any living during the time of the Tribulation will go through it; they will not be raptured. Some will even see the end of the tribulation period without dying, as this chapter also says some will endure until the end. Also, remember to study well the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, mentioned here. Careful Bible study will show that the Apostle John, the writer of Revelations, died sometime after AD 98, during the reign of Trajan, thus becoming the only apostle who did not die a martyr. While I try each day to get closer to God through Jesus, I do not presume that I am special, nor that I will be raptured, considering that all but one of Jesus' disciples was martyred. I hope all will prepare to endure. It's possible the Tribulation will occur in our lifetimes.

@doncleveland1245

Ай бұрын

Jesus tells us he came for the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew is for Israel, and they are 99% unbelievers as we sit...

@robbietrimmer9752

Ай бұрын

You don't know a blessed thing about persecution

@robbietrimmer9752

Ай бұрын

And Matthew 24 is a second coming verse Look at the questions the Apostles asked Jesus There are three

Behold The Bridegroom cometh, go out and greet Him.

The storyline is that God moved Lot and Noah before he wiped out the wicked. 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with the only resurrection for the saints which is on the last day, last trumpet (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6, 1 Cor 15:52). Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection. We leave our flesh on earth (Luke 17:37). There is a flash of light and dead bodies when life seems normal (eating, drinking, etc.). Matt 24:39 And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

And I saw another angel ascending *from the east* having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, *till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads* {Revelation 7:2-3} (These are already sealed with the Holy Spirit, so this is not speaking of being born again.) “For as the lightning *cometh out of the east* and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” {Matthew 24:7} And *the sixth angel* poured out his vial [plague] upon the great river Euphrates; and the water [support] thereof was dried up, *that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared* (And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, *to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty* "Behold, I come as a thief. *Blessed is he that watcheth and keepeth his garments* lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.") And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, *It is done* {Revelation 16:12-17}

There is no pretrib rapture. The "rapture" is the resurrection at the second coming of Christ. We are not raptured/gathered until the dead in Christ are raised first (1 thess 4:15). Jesus says they will be raised on the last day (Jn 6:39,40,44,54, 11:24). Jesus says the last day is when He comes to Judge (Jn 12:48). There is one second coming and it's at the end of time when the saints are given relief and the ungodly are judged (2 thess 1:6-10). We are gathered to Jesus at His public second coming (Mt 24:29-31, Mk 13:24-27, 1 Cor 15:23, 1 thess 4:14-17, 2 Thess 2:1-3), not years before His public second coming.

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

Of course there is a pretrib rapture. Paul's "the dead in Christ raise first" is not a link to the first resurrection of the dead in Revelation 20. It's "FIRST" before "we who are still alive are caught up with them." FIRST they rise, THEN we all are caught up. We can't all rise at once, unless they are raised FIRST. Revelation 20:4 the only ones raised are those who made it through the Great Tribulation without taking the mark. No one else.

@markanthony3275

2 ай бұрын

Here's how you or I paint ourselves into a corner if we fail to consider ALL the scriptures. In Daniel ch 12 a question is asked " How long until ALL things are fulfilled?" and a very precise answer is given "1290 days". That's 1290 days from the day the antichrist declares himself to be god in the temple in Jerusalem until Jesus Christ returns...because Jesus is the fulfillment of ALL prophecy. So if the church is not raptured and goes through the Tribulation. they will know that from the day the antichrist enters the temple in Jerusalem, Jesus will return in 1290 days...so they WILL know "the day" of Christ's return. Didn't Jesus say , "no man knows the day nor the hour ..." ? That's scriptural evidence #1 of about 10 that show there will be a pre-trib rapture. Scriptural evidence #2...Jesus gave the church the "great commission" to preach the gospel to every nation tribe and tongue, before He ascended into heaven. So how come in Rev ch 14:6 we read " And I saw an angel flying midair with the eternal gospel to preach to every nation tribe and tongue." How come an angel is preaching the gospel instead of the church??? Because the church s not present during the Tribulation. There are just a few scriptural examples showing that the church will not be present during the Tribulation. There are many more.

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

I agree with re. the "pre-trib" notion. However, "rapture" =/= "resurrection." Scripture explicitly differentiates them (even though they occur back-to-back, resurrection first).

@andyderksen8455

2 ай бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 This doesn't require a "pre-trib" scenario.

@bugsocsollie1694

2 ай бұрын

@andyderksen8455 for the Body of Christ Church the resurrection and rapture happens consecutively. Israel's resurrection (Revelation 20:4) has no rapture. It doesn't have any alive and remaining. There is no meeting the Lord in the air. There isn't even a physical bodily resurrection (I saw the souls of them). And it only includes those who died during the Great Tribulation.

The revelation rapture verse is actually revelation 4:1 where John hears the come up here. This is the rapture verse. John actually experiences a raptured here and his perspective is suddenly heavenly. After this the church is at the wedding super of the lamb. The church is not mentioned again until we return with Christ at Armageddon. From chapter 4 till around chapter 19 the church is in heaven and the great tribulation is on earth. We return with Christ. This is more inline with premillennial rapture theology.

Heiser was great, but he got the rapture wrong. 1 Cor 15 is about the rapture; Paul's citation about death losing its sting was for everyone who gets glorified at the rapture. And Paul said, then comes the end, which is the great tribulation at the end of the age. I wonder what Heiser thought about the fact that the marriage supper of the Lamb happens behind closed gates in heaven before the second coming?

@ringthembells143

2 ай бұрын

Heiser‘s position was not to have certainty about cosmological events that God did not intend to give you certainty on. With all the ambiguous nature of different stances on the rapture Heiser proved that he could pick a part each and everyone. It seems God doesn’t want us to have exact certainty. The only thing we can be certain of is that God‘s kingdom is designed to come here on earth as in heaven not vice versa

Luke warm is what you are. Thinking you are good and need nothing but deceiving yourself.

REVELATION 20:7-10 Tells us what will happen to the people the get "raptured". It literally says that the devil gathers them from the whole earth, that would explain all these people having dreams of the "rapture" the Scripture goes on to say they go up on the breadth of the earth and then they get killed by fire from God! It also says that the devil that deceived them gets thrown into the lake of fire alive! PLEASE READ THE BIBLE!

- there is more than just physical death, and also as to being dead