Finally someone settled the endless Messi vs. Januzaj debate. Thanks Tifo!

@tshenolosithole

2 жыл бұрын

😆😆

@SanxBile

2 жыл бұрын

Smh.. Just enjoy them both while they are still playing!

@john-adriancoker2789

2 жыл бұрын

On a serious note though Barca are in need of a player with a similar profile as Messi on the right side of the pitcth, & the scattergram data shows the Dybala would be a smart signing.

@selormvan

2 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣👌

@reginald8947

2 жыл бұрын

Finally!!!

Wow what an enriching video. Never realised messi is better than januzaj until i saw the stats on the scatter graph. Thanks guys!

@Omar_Little

2 жыл бұрын

Scattergram

@pedrom4642

2 жыл бұрын

Better than kdb also

@cheifwhat

2 жыл бұрын

Who knew?

@treeklow614

2 жыл бұрын

Sarcasmgram

@jainalmiraz5409

2 жыл бұрын

@@pedrom4642 I mean, he literacy is the most effective player, so yeah , messi is the best

Tifo is so kind to their hostages nowadays!!! When they took me hostage, they just sent me to joe's house because they said he wanted a new "skeleton"

@karimd88

2 жыл бұрын

That must’ve been terrifying

@rohannaval1621

2 жыл бұрын

@@karimd88 it really was. Not being kept hostage, but going to Joe's house

@karimd88

2 жыл бұрын

@@rohannaval1621 yeah, that is what I meant as well. Fella gives me the shivers every time😰

At the end of this I need "Tom Worhille is stuck in a scattergram" music uploaded to the streaming platforms for my daily consumption.

@davidnel957

2 жыл бұрын

I 100%, unironically, agree.

@embersassembling939

2 жыл бұрын

+

Tom being stuck in the scattergram is the only constant in my life right now. If he ever escapes, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

@jainalmiraz5409

2 жыл бұрын

I would be lost, or high on weed, either really

Tom is buffing up, we're going to have a crisis on our hands when he inevitably escapes the scattergram.

@karimd88

2 жыл бұрын

It really is only a matter of time…

@nicolasstuder5430

2 жыл бұрын

He rolled up his sleeves. He's getting ready. Scary hours 😱😱

@bububaba8815

2 жыл бұрын

yeah, I've also noticed that Tom has been steadily expanding inside the scattergram. Only a matter of time before he breaks free from the gravitational pull of the scattergram, or he expands to the point of where he rips the scattergram in two, due to his massive mass.

Me _sees title_ : KZread stop recommending these debate videos _Realises it's Tifo IRL_ : Please tell me it's another scattergram😳

@daviscarl3766

2 жыл бұрын

Joe! Someone doesn't like tifo talks

@pooroldnostradamus

2 жыл бұрын

I started humming the tune immediately

I love how basically all of Atalantas attackers appear right at the top end of all of these scattergrams surrounding attacking output

As a Nigerian I must say I'm very proud of Osimen work in Napoli the boy is going places

@Olori-Ogun

2 жыл бұрын

Facts oga ,that's our boy ..

@oluwagbayi.8476

2 жыл бұрын

You sabi!

@debmalyachatterjee22

Жыл бұрын

Aged well

Cristiano has like 35 or 36 more career goals in 140+ more matches, and that's after he's taken and scored way more penalties than Messi. Messi has more assists. He has got more trophies( both team and individual honours ), creates more and better chances, is the better passer ( one of the best in history ) and the better dribbler ( probably the best in history ) . He was also better at the peak of his powers. ( 91G - 2012 ) Cristiano is a machine but watching Messi play is an entirely different experience - It is like watching Vincent Van Gogh play football. If an artist ever created a naturally beautiful footballer, it would be Messi. Obviously some of you might not see Leo in the same light as I do, but for me this isn't even a debate. I respect Cristiano and definitely believe that he's one of the greatest to ever play the game, but let's be honest, Leo is a once in a lifetime player. 🐐

@strangedragon9018

2 жыл бұрын

And that's how we identify a Messi fan boy🤡

@christianopulinaldo8319

2 жыл бұрын

Way more penalties? Ronaldo has around just 30 more pens and is 2 years older If messi plays till 37, he'll have more goals from penalties than ronaldo

@strangedragon9018

2 жыл бұрын

Idk why are u comparing both , they don't even play in same position and if u are talking about Trophies , messi won 2 Trophies with just 47 mins playing on field in his first season so basically it doesn't matter z,

@adityarayaprolu

2 жыл бұрын

🤡

@vb2388

2 жыл бұрын

Majority of Pundits, Footballers and Coaches have stated Messi to be better.. Even former cr7 teammates have said Messi is better.. That’s more important than opinions of keyboard warriors 😂🤷🏻‍♂️

It’s amazing how they both rank so highly so late into their careers

The video's title might be focused on Messi & Ronaldo, but it's just made me miss Wijnaldum even more.. :(

The thing is that. Those who usually have more ball usage with acceptable positive outcome = create the most chances. Those who use the ball less but with good positive outcome are finishers.

@messigoh6061

2 жыл бұрын

I mean its good for how much u use the ball. I’m really surprised to see Muriel there tho. He’s often played as more of a striker

I am a Ronaldo fan ..... but am absolutely impressed and totally satisfied with his analysis and explanation... that was too good sir..the ball usage and making such chances is what Messi has a leverage over other players...

“I’m sure he’ll escape...but only if he improves his positive outcome rate.”

The final conclusion really puts an end to this discussion 😂

@farhangzahed9331

2 жыл бұрын

Which is?

@diogojordao414

2 жыл бұрын

@@farhangzahed9331 did you see the title? Did you see the video? Well there you have it

@farhangzahed9331

2 жыл бұрын

@@diogojordao414 actually it's so long. I would appreciate it if you could let me know

if you multiply usage rate with positive outcome, you get a metric that should approximate how much a player contributes. Messi's product is 600, the highest on the scatterplot. Another way to think about what player has the largest area when you multiply the x dimension and the y dimension of his spot on the plot. Messi is the GOAT. We all knew it from watching. But it's nice seeing statistics actually corroborate what we can see with our eyes.

@AS-xj9cy

2 жыл бұрын

no Ronaldo is better cause in his prime, he has higher goalscoring/apps in Spain, compared to Messi in the same time frame.

@2345ronaldinho

2 жыл бұрын

@@AS-xj9cy this stuff is too advanced for you. And I'm too lazy to explain it to you

@shepardice3775

Жыл бұрын

@@AS-xj9cy I would ask why Ronaldo fans seem to think scoring goals is the only good thing that can happen on a football pitch and why they seem to believe the other 10 players just do nothing, but the answer's pretty obvious: they don't watch football lol

I see Ronaldo as a more complete striker & Messi as a better overall player ⚽️🔥

@tesla5297

2 жыл бұрын

This comment deserves an appreciation

@vb2388

2 жыл бұрын

But when Messi was a pure striker (2009-2013)…he scored 91 goals in a year, topped the UCL scoring charts 4 years in a row, won 4 Ballon d’Ors and 3 Golden Boots during that time frame, scored in 2 UCL finals etc..

@ren2871

2 жыл бұрын

Messi is better at both though. He led Laliga last year in goals and will likely win the Ballon D'or again

@dakshbiala56

2 жыл бұрын

yea but its expected ronaldo is older and has had to change his game to prolong his career. I don't doubt he can play like messi does its more he wants to play into his 40s so he refuses to. You can see with messi now that he is wearing down too compared to 2 years ago. In their prime they're the undisputed goats

@thrombolic

2 жыл бұрын

@@vb2388 don’t let a single season influence your decision when you are judging 2 players’ careers

To be fair, Cristiano Ronaldo's efficiency is one of his biggest (if not THE biggest) assets. Man can walk for 89 minutes, and then jump 2 meters high to score a wonder header. That's what puts him in the conversation for being one of the GOATs ⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽

@moumenrezaei1330

2 жыл бұрын

the guy's a true hitman

@sbtgamil5536

2 жыл бұрын

you got mad videos bruv 👏👏

@wilfordcolbert1333

2 жыл бұрын

👍

@ok-yk5ve

2 жыл бұрын

And then there is messi who just don't walk in penalty box he walks and play in whole stadium

@christianopulinaldo8319

2 жыл бұрын

@@ok-yk5ve Check ronaldo's heatmap before posting sh*t comments like this

Yesterday I found myself singing the Scattergram song without having watched any scattergram content, tifo irl hits diffrently!

this si the best football channel series on youtube atm imo

I love these respectful comparison videos of messi and Ronaldo. The typical schlock has gotten old.

Messi - better present shot per goal Messi - better present match per goal Messi - better percent assists per match Messi - move individual awards Messi - more team awards. Pundits - HmMm i wOndEr whO is BEttEr!

Crazy how there’s no data for the Portuguese league to add in

Isn't it interesting that there are a ton of Serie A players in the outer regions compared to the other leagues. PL only has 4 ( De Bruyne, Bamford, Welbeck and someone else) and La Liga only has 3 ( Messi, Benzema and Alcacer) in comparison.

@aldobonaso3481

2 жыл бұрын

because Serie A is grossly underestimated. Especially Atalanta, look how many Atalanta players there are. But also, the scattergram chooses which players to name...so the obvious question being...is the scattergram sentient???

@johancruyff724

2 жыл бұрын

@@aldobonaso3481 That.... and also doesn't outcome measure what the player does with the ball rather than the difficulty in pulling it off. Hence it is easier to do something positive with the ball than in the other leagues. Just tells us that the notion of Serie A being a very defensive league is grossly outdated.

Love the shoutout to Miroslav Klose!

Could Positive Outcome Rate account for actions like xT and progressive passes/carries?

I'm struggling with the distinction between 'usage rate' and 'positive outcome rate' - is the only difference the addition of actual goals and the removal of losing the ball from 'positive outcome'? Would a pass be included in 'usage rate' if it was an ATTEMPT at creating a chance that didn't ACTUALLY create a shot on goal, or MUST it be a key pass/directly result in a shot to be included? For example, if Messi's usage rate is 20%, can he only be completing non-key passes the other 80% of possessions?

Is there anywhere we can view these scattergraphs and find players we'd like to look at?

Why isn't there much analytical stats available on footballers? Being an nba head there is so many useful tools to understand players impact better like the usage rate, true shooting percentage, eFG etc.

I think ball usage per 90 and positive outcome on that would have been a better statistics.

"Tom Worville is stuck in a Scattergram" is my go to song when I'm depressed

How is this usage rate stat calculated? In basketball it is as a proportion of the possessions. Who is the main ball handler for instance and how many seconds of any given possession is the ball in their hands. This usage rate seems rather more flippant.

Two questions: first- what period is the data referencing? Last season or lifetime? Second- is the data adjusted for sample size? Like icardi played fewer games than lewa

@himanshugiri9072

2 жыл бұрын

First- I think they're looking at the previous season, two seasons at most. Second- It is usage rate and output rate, so, yes

I am here just for the scategram song, you can talk about rocks if you feel like if you have that as your intro

I don’t normally click on videos titled “Click on this you stupid worm!”, but I’ll do it for Tom & JJ.

JJ takes me back to early Belle and Sebastian.

The song genuinely had me laughing out loud.

I remember when Welbeck was a promising star at ManU. Makes me feel old lol

Funny thing is it will be amazing if both played in same team ... perfect duo

Can you guys plz bring back the old voice cover, the one who is still doing the advertisement in the beginning of the video , he has the best voice for this channel

So in short Luis Muriel is the best player in the world 🤨

@messigoh6061

2 жыл бұрын

His statistics are impressive to say the least but hes not been the best. There’s that 20% of evaluating a player which comes from watching him

Thank you for returning the epic jingle.

@KindredBrujah

2 жыл бұрын

Also, I love this, because this is exactly how I see Neymar (and Di Maria as it happens, not far away from him in the same kind of 'has the ball a lot, doesn't achieve much with it' position).

I can't see the numbers on the bottom of the graph !

Pretty interesting how the big outliers in either dimension are both PSG players. I guess implying they were a bit one-dimensional last year.

Found myself singing along with the intro😂🎶

Josip Ilicic pops up on these a lot. Strange that we don't hear about him so often

My eyes can’t see these diagrams. Please consider filming just the diagram at full screen for a few seconds. We could pause the video on our side and actually read it. Also important to state the date range of the data. Is it Ronaldo at Juve or Real or Man U?

Absolute gold content

Different roles but amazing video

I’m not a basketball stat nerd but usage rating is not the right stat to use. It doesn’t translate to WINS. It tells you who holds the ball MORE. It doesn’t tell you if it coverts to goals or who is contributing that led to a goal. For me, I use a combination of VORP (Value over replacement player), BPM (Box Plus/Minus), and Win shares/per 48 minutes. So, for NBA example, Nikola Jokic is the regular season MVP. He is the #1 in all 3 stats if I remember correctly. If the team is 1st in the league, then the team is a well built team. Regular season MVP is who contributed most to the team’s amount of wins, so that means most likely the player is carrying the team with dominate stats. I don’t know how to translate it to football so...

Thank god the theme song is back

I would love to see where Pipo Inzaghi plots

So the usage rate percentage is relative to the usage rate of the rest of your team, is that right?

Would like someone to remix the scattergram song.

POV: you look for one players name on the scattergram and he's not there :'(

We want more

Given Tom is trapped in 3D, are we ever going to see a 3D scattergram??

for these parameters, which can be seen in the video, one could connect the point of a player with the respective axis to form a rectangle. the area of the respective rectangle, however large or small it turns out, could then be used as a comparative value for the player. after this calculation, we would be approximately (!) at: CR7 = 14 x 35 = 490 messi = 20 x 30 = 600 neymar = 25 x 20 = 500 icardi = 7 x 46 = 332

@kingkingf

2 жыл бұрын

Nice idea, but I guess the X axis then has had to be sth like "successful using" , because I assume the current axis also contains things like failed dribbling attempts if I'm not wrong. Also I guess you have to discount the value of players that have a small total playing time like icardi

@ucbrowser2447

2 жыл бұрын

@@kingkingf Naybe divide it over the amount of minutes played for a per game stat?

@wwanimator

2 жыл бұрын

Higher usage rate doesnt necessarily make a player more valuable, it just means they try risky plays a lot, so it doesnt make sense to value a player higher based on their usage rate. A low usage rate and high success rate is much better than high usage and low success.

@ucbrowser2447

2 жыл бұрын

@@wwanimator Technically no data can tell the full story of a player

@wwanimator

2 жыл бұрын

@@ucbrowser2447 scoring more goals is generally better than scoring less, while giving up possession more (which is what high usage basically means) isnt. Some stats are better than others

Napoli have some efficient ballers on their hands, Sarri doing bits

Have to take into account he played with that barca team fro the past three years who are appalling. But still respect to Ronaldo

@thirtharajsur1243

2 жыл бұрын

Same For Ronaldo and Juventus, Juventus's mid was non existent

@vb2388

2 жыл бұрын

@@thirtharajsur1243 Then how did Juventus beat Barça 3-0?? Barça’s defense is non existent..

@thirtharajsur1243

2 жыл бұрын

@@vb2388 for someone called Cristiano Ronaldo

Whoever doesn’t sing along with the intro isn’t human.

Dear Tifo, please put my man Tom's camera a bit higher on the tripod. This shot creates a weird curve which is not the most flattering.

best opening scene

Ronaldo can score goals that no one else can, while Messi can playmake and dribble and eventually score like no one else. But in the most important games and high pressure situations, Ronaldo always delivers

@aldobonaso3481

2 жыл бұрын

except...when he doesn't...as a Juve fan I can attest to his disappearance in 90% of every match, but 90% of the time he will pop up with a goal after being non-existent for 90% of the match. The problem is that for 90% of the match you're basically playing with 10 men...he may be one of the greats, but I was definitely not sad to see him leave. It's like playing a first person shooter game with a gun so big it will destroy anybody you hit, but you can barely move because the gun is so heavy - it's very OP, but also very limiting tactically...you can only play one way with that gun, and you can only play one way with Ronaldo - and when it doesn't work, you lose.

@situn4377

2 жыл бұрын

@@aldobonaso3481 well tactically, you can also play one way with Messi. Both can't be given pressing duties so u need the players surrounding them to do the dirty work

@RohitPatel-gr7cf

2 жыл бұрын

Ronaldo only jobs is scoring ...so if he will not deliver in dying mintues then what's the use of Ronaldo . Ronaldo has zero output when he doesn't score but that's not the case with messi and remember....messi at 34 yr his primary job is not scoring now...his primary job is creating chances ..... he is fuckin number 10 ....and you are comparing him to a poacher ...do you even know what number 10 does in football ....do you even know the legacy of number 10 shirt

I'm only here for the song 🎵

Ronaldo is more like a target man, whereas Messi does more playmaking

@theweekndxo7438

2 жыл бұрын

just because ronaldo is tall doesn’t mean he’s a target man lmao

@containedhurricane

2 жыл бұрын

@@theweekndxo7438 Unlike Messi, Ronaldo rarely provides for his teammates. On the contrary, Ronaldo's teammates often gave him assists

@sirfdoom

2 жыл бұрын

@@containedhurricane nowadays definitely, but back in his prime ronaldo was still one of the top assisters in the world. he has the 3rd most assists in history of all players

@evilestmanlp

2 жыл бұрын

@@sirfdoom yeah, Luis Suarez has more assists than CR7, but you don’t see us trying so hard to label Suarez as a playmaker :)

@theweekndxo7438

2 жыл бұрын

@@containedhurricane why can't people ever just NOT bring up messi in relation to a point about Ronaldo. me saying ronaldo isn't a target man isn't saying messi is not more of a playmaker

plot twist: social media access is blocked in the scattergram dungeon

Ronaldo is a better individual player but the way Messi (used to) perform means his team usually wins. Once MSN split up he was done - he's too old to carry a team. He should join City or Liverpool.

God these guys crack me up so much

Interms of Goal scoring Yes...But interms of overall game play No

@jainalmiraz5409

2 жыл бұрын

even then messi does edge ronaldo, cr7 has a better scores on the scattergram, but shot effecieny is also a thing, it takes cr7 6 shots per goal, where as messi scores on average eery 4.8 shots, and thats gotten worse since he cant stop hitting the crossbar

YES

Holy sh*t it’s Junior Statto

Surprised not to see Mbappe high up close to Neymar

Yes and no. Ronaldo works with more systems especially nos since he's gotten older. You can play him in a side where you dont get too much of thr ball, possession based side or one which just counter attacks. He wont be as good in some, like a pressing system, but would probably still be good. Messi seems to be at his best in a high possession side with very good passers.

@sk2790

Жыл бұрын

no and no, cr7 has shown to struggle playing in juve and in return to man utd and messi is doing great in psg after pochettino got sacked. u could even say his biggest flaw to his game is the fact that he views himself above the team. of course ligue 1 is much easier to play in as an attacker and cr7 is older than messi. but even as a united fan, i can acknowledge cr7's need for a team who completely adjusts and sacrifices for him in order for the team to succeed. he can score as many goals as he wants but this doesnt change the outcome of results as a team if the team doesnt play to his needs.

Messi is a much better finisher and has a better goal-to-game ratio despite taking fewer shots and playing a bit deeper. He is easily the more efficient player

@adithyands5276

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-fe7xw6tw7b speaking as if messi played as a cf his whole career who camped in the d

@vb2388

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-fe7xw6tw7b lol, Messi has been doing the work of a playmaker and goal poacher for a very long time.. Cr7 playing as a winger is no excuse.. 😂 Guess Messi has levels to him that no player can match 🤷🏻‍♂️

@vb2388

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-fe7xw6tw7b and when Messi played primarily as a goal scorer…he got 91 goals in a calendar year.. Topped the UCL goal scoring charts for 4 years in a row…scored in 2 UCL finals etc.. When Messi was doing cr7’s current job…he was far more efficient and deadly..

Messi's On the Ball value(OBV) statsbomb from is very high

Rule no 1....if u want good number of comments.....start the debate between messi n ronaldo

I'm starting to think he's not actually inside a scatterboard

Before i saw it spelled out, I wanted to believe it was spelled Scat-O-Gram. Call me childish, but even after seeing hard evidence against it I still believe it to be so. Much like Father Christmas. Or Garden Skeletons.

Amen

They talked more about icardi than messi and ronaldo.

Umm no.

No, they are asked to do different things and have different skillsets suitable for an array of situations. Since we’re on the topic of basketball, Messi reminds me of someone like LeBron while Ronaldo reminds me of Kobe. Both are successful and skilled but one’s playstyle and or role is better for accumulating statistics and the other is a clutch assassin who can takeover at any moment. It really depends on what type of roster you’re designing and who fits that mold better.

@sld1776

2 жыл бұрын

LeBron is much better than Kobe.

@vb2388

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for comparing cr7 to Kobe rather than MJ.. Cr7 can’t lace MJ’s Boots..

i hope he NEVER escapes

If you could pick one player to watch, in isolation, for 90 mins of their best game, who would it be?

@aregul12

2 жыл бұрын

messi

@HA-ug4qu

2 жыл бұрын

Zidane or kaka Or any one of the barca midfielder duo (u know which two)

Cristiano doesn't need scattergrams he is the clutch player of the century. Left foot right foot good club bad club it doesn't matter 9/10 times hes walking away with some sterling.

So who is better? Messi or Ronaldo?

Who else is sick of comparing these greats all the time? Let's just sit back and be in awe of both.

Lol Benzema is just trying to score as if he didn’t spend most of his career setting up Ronaldo

Finally we have proof that when Mauro Icardi gets it, it's done. And he really does get no touches with not service

title is clickbait. they did NOT talk about ronaldo once!

This scattergram shows that CR7 is slightly better than Messi.The top right point signifies the perfect footballer(footballer with highest usage rate plus highest positive outcome rate ).The closer a point is from that corner,the better that footballer is.CR7 is closer to that point than Messi,although it is not obvious from this particular diagram because it is stretched along x axis.

No, he isn’t. We kind of already know that!

should do this list but put ronaldo 2 years ago, its kinda unfair to compare a 34 year old to a 36, its immeasurably different

messi is still in la liga

Please don't let Bruno Fernandes hide. Where is he on the graph? Will make an interesting reading that won't surprise purists but will shock most people

It's Thursday It's Tifo Irl It's a data based video You know what that means.

Scattergram videos are the best

Ronaldo is probably more efficient because he just waits inside the penalty box it makes sense. He's never seen the halfway line in these last 6 or so years.