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@giffysstiffy8874giffytuck

7 күн бұрын

🥸Blacks were LITERALLY BRED for hundreds of years to be as physically explosive as the slave masters could make them...this gave them an UNnatural advantage over every other rave and whites STILL do amazingly well in sports🥸Millions of BLACKS captured other BLACKS sold other BLACKS to slave masters but you don't like to mention that...Mexico and South America received more black slaves than America did but you don't like to mention that. Jews and Arabs had ALOT of black slaves (slavery existed in the northern United States until the 1880's) and jews financed slave ships and the goods on them

The fact that they think making it more artistic would stop black girls from winning……😂

@raquelramlochan184

13 күн бұрын

Exactly

@rugbyplayer9100

13 күн бұрын

And Shilese Jones is arguably the most artistic on the US team rn 😂

@idonotknow8503

12 күн бұрын

It's not about black women, it's about American gymnasts that are not taught how to spot and point their toes. I don't think that Simone could not learn how to turn properly, her coaches just decided that she doesn't need to.

@eddietucker7005

12 күн бұрын

This possibly could be the most ignorant (look it up) statement I have ever seen on KZread. Get educated, not racist!

@nightswimmer99

12 күн бұрын

​@@idonotknow8503It's not ballet. There are ballet competitions for ballet.

This happens whenever you get a group of people (racial or otherwise) who claim ownership over a sport. When the Chinese team were on the rise, they were criticised for being too robotic despite being technically excellent. To the point that they brought over people from Romania to choreograph their routines. Some people struggle to accept that someone who doesn't fit the traditional mould might just happen to be better at the sport. The Gabby Douglas description sums it up though. She's the definition of the lithe, girlish body type (wasn't she 16 in London?), yet she's described as some sort of hulking physical specimen. It can only be down to her skin colour that she's described in this way.

@Nottiy

13 күн бұрын

Yes! You reminded me of how people used to talk about the chinese gymnast. They were good and people wanted to deny that. People will always try to find a way to deny new talent because they don't have a certain look

@chuuu4610

13 күн бұрын

Honestly… in 2008 the Chinese girls had more inspired floor routines with better choreography compared to the USA. The two top bar contenders China had, had arguably better handstand positions than Nastia, and did not have the glaring dismount problem.

@gymlandia4467

13 күн бұрын

People often always called the Chinese women hyper feminine and they consistently won medals on bars & beam throughout the years. Medals black gymnast like Dominique were often denied. The Romanians in particular Gina Gogean were called robotic. That was never said about Asian gymnasts. The convo was about black women not Asians

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

Shang Chunsong was robotic and didn't have dance finesse on floor. But she's the only one I remember who was consistently criticized legitimately for poor delivery of choreography. But, the Chinese were deficient on vault and floor at Shang's time, other than Wang Yan, due to them being too small. They had and have excelled at beam and bars. Cheng Fei, prior to Wang and Shang's, careers really drove vault to a level which has stood the test of time.

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

You're right about Gabby. She is definitely not a power gymnast. She excelled in dance skills on beam and floor, and on bars which is considered a non-power, flow and finesse event. Her body type was very thin--I definitely wouldn't have described her as muscular, though all gymnasts are. Yes, she was 16 when she won AA gold.

I feel so proud. Gymnastics is getting diverse and the most decorated gymnast is a black girl. It incentivizes other generations to pursue a dream and practice sports they thought couldn't be part of.

@scavellasslater9890

10 күн бұрын

A Black woman!!!! Not a black girl so racist!!!

@pjbpiano

8 күн бұрын

Which people thought they could not be a part of gymnastics?

@llIllIlI

8 күн бұрын

​@@pjbpianoLots. It's what happens to black people and it happens by design. Though I'd never had gymnast aspirations, I had others. It's a regret of mine, as when I became a young adult, I observed how fascinating of a sport gymnastics is. I digress. I vividly recall my 5th grade teacher (white woman) walking the room, asking one by one, what we, the students, would like to be when we grow up. The laughter from this demon creature when I stated my then desire to be President, immediately crushed my dreams. I imagine that, before Dominique, Gabby, Simone, and many of the others, they've faced their own similar opposition. I'm extremely proud of them because they did not allow these teachers, peers, and others, crush their dreams. They stood up and did their thang! Kudos to them. I've since become successful in my own right, but my 10yr old self wanted something else.

@Ajay.Plants

2 күн бұрын

@@pjbpianoit’s a sport that shamed you to pieces if you weren’t built like a stick and doing European ballet influenced choreography. Answer your own question. Who might that steer away from women’s gymnastics

the ending lol. That explains why Gabby Douglas was so highlighted back then. I thought it was because of her story but she really broke barriers when she won gold.

@mylesastinnette6208

12 күн бұрын

I am still wondering how she won. She just looked like a boney chicken hopping around to me. She’s definitely racist and very jealous of Simone. I don’t know how she won other than knowing blacks have thinker skin than whites.

Italian ra ci sm is on another level 🤡🤡🤡

@chaaaargh

13 күн бұрын

what are you even talking about

@EVELYN-eu9iw

13 күн бұрын

​@@chaaaargh They're talking about the Italian gymnast saying that she should paint her skin black. Plus her coach's interview

@aliciamcdonald7105

13 күн бұрын

@@EVELYN-eu9iw That was YEEEEEEARS ago.

@EVELYN-eu9iw

13 күн бұрын

@@aliciamcdonald7105 still it's something really common im Italian mindset

@aliciamcdonald7105

13 күн бұрын

@@EVELYN-eu9iw It is a common mind set of most European countries except for France, Portugal and England.

Dominic Dawes was my absolute favourite gymnast growing up. I loved her style her grace and her acrobatics. She made me love gymnastics and I watched the Olympics for her.

@MimiRox13

10 күн бұрын

Sammmee!!

@lashonecorlette9505

9 күн бұрын

Me too

@ctruth6185

8 күн бұрын

I only prefer complete gymnasts. Whether she wins medals is immaterial. Why? Because a truly great performance will stand the test of time. The wow factor never dies. The judges can cheat & be biased for political & other reasons. But great performance never dies.

@greenvortex7

8 күн бұрын

We can go further back and look for Diane Durham in the 80s who I felt was greater than Mary Lou Retton but unfortunately got injured and could not make the team. Not to take anything away from Mary Lou, I was a fan of them both but felt Diane Durham had a slight edge over Mary Lou. As a young black boy in the 80s doing Gymnastics indeed it is great to see so many WOC : Douglas, Child's, Biles, Lee etc.

@nightswimmer99

5 күн бұрын

Dominique had that combination of strength and lightness. Her moves and landings always looked like stages of flight, not heavy like some other gymnasts.

it’s fascinating how across almost any field, sports or otherwise- there is ALWAYS a discussion of a loss of skill/artistry/integrity or whatever . people always seem to be saying things are always getting worse, not better

@emiahinc

13 күн бұрын

this!!! even the famous “lebron vs michael jordan” debate and people claiming that current nba players lack grit. these elite sports only get more competitive as time goes on, in my eyes the view that there is a loss of artistry/skill falls flat and is often a result of changes in officiating and guidelines- not the fault of the athletes

@deloresmatt8643

13 күн бұрын

What is a black sport? So because black people play a sport , it’s a black support?

@annzeeg4217

13 күн бұрын

​@@deloresmatt8643Why are you here Dolores?

@nathanielreichert4638

13 күн бұрын

@@emiahinc​​⁠that’s a good point. We could extend your point into football too. I hear old guys say all the time something along the line of, “there are too many rules, too many stoppages, too many ways to foul now, etc.” basically saying the sport is too coddled now, and that players call foul over a boo-boo. Yet, many of these rules make the sport more safe. Do critics of the rules really want the players to get on the field without helmets, hit below the belt, and basically get rewarded for severely injuring members of the opposing team? The evolution of rules is progression, not regression. And even with increased concerns for safety, to your point, team records are still being broken every year. So I would also agree that things are just as competitive as ever, or more so.

@idonotknow8503

12 күн бұрын

Well, but "artistic" is in the name of this sport. It's not too far fetched to talk about it becoming less so.

as a black girl who was a gymnast for nearly 10 years and is very much looking forward to the US olympic team for this year being comprised of so many woc, this means so much to me 😭🫶🏾 (also i loved let her eat cake!!)

@giffysstiffy8874giffytuck

7 күн бұрын

🥸Blacks were LITERALLY BRED for hundreds of years to be as physically explosive as the slave masters could make them and this gave blacks an unnatural advantage in things like sprinting and jumping and whites STILL do amazingly well in sports🥸 EVERY OTHER RACE HAS HAD TO COMPETE NATURALLY

@giffysstiffy8874giffytuck

7 күн бұрын

🙄You'll hate the fact that their are amazing white sprinters such as Camden Capehart, Coby Hilton and Cole Beck and Dylan Randall and Aria Pearce and Mia Brahe-Pedersen, Kennedy Smith and Abby Steiner out there🤣🤣 Gatlin Bair, Cody Hagen, Andy Bass, Caitlin Clark, Dayton Forsythe are many other up and coming athletes that are white and that will be dominating their sport...people should look them up and look up the videos about them

As a former gymnast and coach, I'm so happy Black gymnasts are getting more representation and opportunities than before. So refreshing and excited for this summer's team!

@monember2722

10 күн бұрын

its not about being given more representation and opportunities. Its about setting goals and achieving them. If the girls and their parents get in the pipeline and achieve, they will show up in the places like the olympics. I just hope when they do, we don't get a constant cry of racism over every little discrepancy and perceived slight. The workd is full of those things and I don't want every little spot we enter to turn into a toxic site of complaining and being overly sensitive about small things that happen to everyone.

@llIllIlI

8 күн бұрын

​@@monember2722You're not fooling anyone with this nonsense.

As a former gymnast in the 80s and early 90s who remembers being the only black child and possibly the only minority at my gym and at every competition but one, I remember the awful treatment including being called racial slurs, isolation and even the refusal to properly adjust my vault settings at competitions. (Luckily, I don’t remember anything negative about my coaches, only recognition and support). I got to cry tears of joy at Betty and Dominique only to later get to squeal as I watched Gabby soar at one of my strengths, followed by Simone who mended the heart of the little girl inside of me who was an absolute powerhouse at the vault. I’m so grateful to these young ladies. ❤❤

In the seventies, we were still mostly excluded openly. It is still tough. I’m one of the first black gymnastics coaches in Canada. I should write about those days.

@cyndipowell1027

5 күн бұрын

Indeed you should, bc I know there’s a story!

Thank you for saying what you said about “lines”! I’m not black but I am curvy and grew up doing classical ballet. I never had ‘good lines’ or ‘elegance’ or ‘gracefulness’ and I pretty quickly learned it was that I couldn’t have those things because I was short and had boobs, not because of my talent. I was eventually bullied out of dance by my teachers and peers. All that with the benefit of white privilege, so I can only imagine how hard it is for black girls. I was 10 when I gabby won the Olympics and I was OBSESSED with her. I still pinpoint that as the first time I ever cared about sports lol

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

OMG I took ballet and gymnastics and our ballet teacher told the gymnastics team member we would never amount to anything in dance because we were too short. Shame on her! I was in shock when I got to college and saw that women of all shapes, sizes and abilities were majoring and minoring in Ballet. It made me so mad because dance is something you can really continue to do as an adult whereas it's more difficult with gymnastics. Shame on these teachers for squashing children's life long potential to enjoy dance.

@kat1284

3 күн бұрын

I did dance in high school, and I was a Latina (Mexican) with white skin, short stature, and on the thicker side. I always felt like I could never be as elegant as my white, tall, and skinny peers because my legs weren’t long enough to make those lines, and because my arms looked too bulky and my neck too muscular. Seeing Simone dominate gymnastics made me feel validated to want to dance.

the simone biles effect ✨

@piratesswoop725

10 күн бұрын

I think it's more Gabby Douglas. She won gold in 2012, if you look at lots of these girls like Shilese and Skye, they began their careers just after then. Simone certaily had an impact and influence but I think we won't start seeing the girls inspired by her until the next quad when they start as seniors.

@Tmac_305

8 күн бұрын

​@@piratesswoop725 Nah it was definitely the Dominique Dawes effect!.... I remember in the '90s black people being glued to their screens to watch Dominique Dawes perform in the Olympics and all of the YMCA's and local gymnastics clubs start getting darker!✊🏾

@honeyjuju1426

6 күн бұрын

​@@Tmac_305 I agree

I think you missed two black gymnasts, Tasha Schwikert who competed in the Olympics in 2000 and Annia Hatch in 2004. But this is great :)

@--julian_

13 күн бұрын

also Elvire Teza from France 🇫🇷

@drew-ih7bx

13 күн бұрын

Literally thought the same thing especially because Tasha had SO MUCH media on her at the time.

@korr1990

12 күн бұрын

Also Stella Umeh from Canada!

@dvolleyball199

12 күн бұрын

@@korr1990 I think she meant for America though

i’m the same in terms of sparkliness being a must to enjoy a sport

People were making fun of Gabby’s hair?! I must have been living under a rock, I was too busy watching her routines. I’m glad I don’t do twitter, my blood would have been boiling.

@shellyred8732

6 күн бұрын

Tbh it was other black people that were doing this.

@Facts-Over-Feelings

5 күн бұрын

@@shellyred8732 RIGHT.. CACAZOID EUROPEAN DIVERSION TACTIC.. THEY NEVER DID ANYTHING.. THERE ANGELS AND VICTIMS.. ALL THERE CRIMES ARE CRIMES OF LOVE FROM STEALING EVERY NATION THEY LIVE IN.. COLONIZING EVERYONE'S NATION OF OTHER RACES. THERE HIJACKING OF BIBLICAL FAITH OF WHICH THEY NEVER HAD NOR CARE ABOUT THE THERE CORE.. BUT USE ONLY AS A WEAPON.

@1940semochild

4 күн бұрын

Yes. That was very real. Her hair and how it was perceived was a very big deal.

This is really fascinating! Also, with the whole Simone Biles going to difficulty instead of “artistry” is also being seen in figure skating. I just got into that because the next up and coming number 1 from America Ilia Malinin performed Hope by nf (a rap song usually about trauma) at worlds 2024 exhibitions. It’s such an odd pairing to see and he put in moves that are not normally seen in figure skating. And then he also just broke the world record for highest score achieved by doing 6 quads which is beyond difficult while still being the only one to have ever done a quad axel. But one of his biggest critics mainly by Europeans is that he isn’t elegant enough. But honestly, to me, the difficulty of the quad axels makes it so much more interesting than the artistic expression. But the artistic expression should never disappear from these sports because it does add a lot to them.

@cocoroni1031

13 күн бұрын

Simone Biles, Rebeca Andrade and Shilese Jones all have the best execution in gymnastics. It's not just difficulty.

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

You hardly ever see a gymnast who can tumble on the beam or floor with straight knees like Simone does. Even supposedly 'artistic' gymnasts have terrible form on their tumbling. They can't even perform simple beam dismounts without horrible execution errors due to poor form. Additionally, many 'artistic' gymnasts have bent knees on leaps and poor technique. They also cannot complete simple double backs or pikes without landing deductions.

@karyon1007

12 күн бұрын

It's the same criticism that plagued Nathan Chen. However, as a layperson, I greatly enjoyed watching Nathan skate. Sure, Yuzuru Hanyu had more of the traditional balletic elegance, but Nathan was still a great performer. Ilia has clearly been working very hard on artistic expression, and I'm completely obsessed with his Hope routine. His performance to that song is ✨captivating✨. I hope he finds a competition routine that allows him to be equally as expressive -- he'd break even more records!

Betty okino was also the first black gymnast to win an individual medal on beam at the world championships in 1991 & Daiane Dos Santos of Brazil being the first black gymnast to be a world champion.

@seensay2132

13 күн бұрын

Wrong again. Ashley Postell won the beam world championship for the USA in 2002 the year before dos Santos won floor. Wait, ohhhhhhhhhhh right! You’re colorist against light skinned Blacks 😂

@bgreen5234

13 күн бұрын

@@seensay2132you think he’s colorist against light-skinned blacks because????

@gymlandia4467

13 күн бұрын

@@bgreen5234 colorism is the discrimination against darker skin people just loud, anti-black, & wrong

@bgreen5234

13 күн бұрын

@@gymlandia4467 right!, and on top of that, Betty Okino and Ashley Postell are literally the same complexion, so how is that colorism? 😂😂😂

@gymlandia4467

13 күн бұрын

@@bgreen5234 they’re not actually ashley Postell is way more ambiguous looking relative to Betty who’s clearly black. But again tryna make reverse colorism is ludicrous

I learned about (and became a fan of) Simone Biles in 2013 or 14. I liked her gymnastics, but I really liked her personality. She brought a lightness and international friendliness to the sport (even to her competitors) instead of the super stoic and serious atmosphere other gymnasts brought. That's somewhat similar to what Olga Korbut brought.

BEEN WAITING FOR YEARS FOR SOMEONE TO SAY THIS

@AiiCii

13 күн бұрын

3:24 absolutely. Another dog whistle is "beautiful lines"

I think it’s also important to mention the grace Asian gymnasts and non-black gymnasts get relative to black women as well. This is seen in Suni Lee, The Chinese women in gymnastics, & numerous others like Laurie Hernandez. Who receive privileges not afforded to black women in the sport. I’d like to add that Gabby Douglas does have the traditional qualities of a gymnast pointed toes, great lines, and extended leaps. Yet it didn’t change the racial discrimination in the sport 🤍

@luca.desu.2590

13 күн бұрын

Since Suni Lee and Laurie Hernandez achieved success after Simone and Gabby, perhaps they benefited from the ceilings those women had broken already, along with obviously never receiving specifically anti-Black racism?

@Daughter777_

12 күн бұрын

And yet black women are still winning. 🏅

have just started the video but it’s so interesting to see how gymnastics is changing! back when i did it, i was one of the VERY few girls of color in the gym. i remember the struggle of putting my hair back for meets (because you can get deducted for having hair fall out? for some reason). i also remember developing earlier than other girls, and that inevitably being part of the reason i quit gymnastics. i always envied how much smaller and skinnier the white gymnasts were which probably led to a lot of my body issues throughout middle and high school lol. really loved your short film about this by the way! i’m so glad young girls nowadays are going to get such a different vision of what a gymnast looks like and hope more young girls of color, especially black girls, can feel comfortable in gymnastics

@lilacfields

13 күн бұрын

i’ve finished the video now and i’m glad you literally touched on all of the thoughts i had! gabby douglas was my inspiration (i used to watch her movie over and over) and it’s great to see that a new generation of gymnasts inspired by her and simone will go on to inspire even more people

@chaaaargh

13 күн бұрын

@@lilacfields omg you just unlocked a memory for me lol, i used to love that movie so much as a kid 😭

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

I was 1 of only 2 Black gymnasts in my twin city, 2 state area competing. I had to go through 3 gyms and a lot of racism just to make Team. I wonder where I would be if I'd gotten into a gym that believed in me and had the resources to propel me into TOPS when I started gymnastics at 3 years old. My parents had the money, but it's hard to overcome being held back from advancing because of your skin color. I'm glad that Betty and Dominique broke through that glass ceiling to pave the way for Gabby. Since they were all very thin body types and highly artistic I think Simone wouldn't have thrived until after them, and the code changed. However, I do think there are plenty of Black families with the money for gymnastics. I think it was the actual training and competition barriers that had to be broken.

Representation is the word, seeing the example of Brazil, a federation with little tradition in sport, gave life to Daiane dos Santos, the first black woman to win an individual world gold medal, decades later Rebeca Andrade appears and credits her as the biggest inspiration in the sport!

@U2BearCat

8 сағат бұрын

They have Ukrainian and Russian coaches.

Wonderful essay! I'm so excited to watch some great gymnastics this summer and personally am incredibly glad that the sport has shifted to focus more on grown women who are more comfortable with themselves and their bodies as opposed to young impressionable girls.

Im into sports but I know nothing about gymnastics. I only vaguely understood the politics around the sport so this’ll be a fun watch.

I've always found it so insane that Simone is labelled as not artistic, because her 2016 floor routine at the Rio olympics is, to me, a masterclass of artistry. I think it's worth noting too that Simone remaining so dominant at her practically geriatric (in the gymnastic world) age of 27 is redefining what the perfect gymnast looks like.

@omglauraelizabeth

8 сағат бұрын

This is why artistry is so subjective and shouldn't be such a huge deal. You think she's extremely artistic, I don't. She's not a dancer by any means. And she shouldn't have to be. It's not the ballet. Plus, the men, even though it's still labeled "men's artistic gymnastics" aren't expected to prance around like ballerinas to be considered artistic.

@Person-zx9rb

5 сағат бұрын

@@omglauraelizabeth Exactly! I come from a ballet background too.

Gabby truly paved the way for gymnastics!! So proud of her and will always love her for everything she accomplished. Also rooting for shilese this summer I hope she accomplishes a lot in Paris

@user-lo8tg2hc3u

13 күн бұрын

Don't forger the ones who paved the road for her: Dianne Durham, Lucy Collins, Joyce Willbourne, Stacey Gunthorpe and Dominique Dawes.

Olga's little pigtails always looked so cute. I love the diversity in gymnastics now. I love seeing the different styles. I do miss the older composition on beam though!

Hot take: the Shawn Johnson vs Nastia Liukin artistry vs athleticism debated needed to happen in order for athletes like Douglass and Biles to have a chance against racism. Second hot take: FIG literally changed the artistic requirement for floor after Jade Carey won the floor gold. White girl with no dancing skills? CHANGE THE RULES 🙄

worth mentioning also is men’s gymnastics! the paris team is expected to have 2 really impactful young black men on it in frederick richard and khoi young who are both incredible. also a possibility for donnell whittenburg to make his first olympic team after trying for a long time and being really resilient (i think he absolutely should). loved this video as a huge gym fan!

Haven't even finished 1min of this but yesss I'm becoming such a gymnastics fan when I've never actively kept up with any other sport before this

I love Simone and Skye. Paris 2024

@n_ATE22

13 күн бұрын

And shilese 🖤

Artistry allows countries to cheat. Plain and simple. It's no wonder that gymnastics and ice skating, both sports that heavily relies on artsy, suffered huge scandals for Eastern Europe back in the day because they had voting blocks and had built in bias because of questionable artistry scores. Both sports have flourished in recent years by allowing innovation and athleticism guide the sport.

@aliciamcdonald7105

13 күн бұрын

Well said.

@BranchDavidian-

12 күн бұрын

So do you advocate for doing away with artistry scoring or? I love having seeing better dance and performance. And gymnastics has seemed to increased the artistry deductions and focus on execution over difficulty (Amanars are hardly worth it today compared with 2012 when they were higher D and everybody had to have one) which I think is good. Plus in figure skating Anna still won over Sasha who had higher difficulty, so it’s still quite important in both to have artistry

@karyon1007

12 күн бұрын

Certainly true when they didn't have clear guidelines for scoring it. I appreciate what the FIG is trying to do with women's gymnastics (despite disagreeing with some of the details of their plan). The modern "artistry checklist" gives specific guidelines for posture, extension, toe point, etc. The goal is to have something that truly depends on skill, not body type. Everyone knows the criteria in advance, and judges are trained to look for very specific details.

@deenice7155

12 күн бұрын

@@BranchDavidian- I'm not opposed to artistry but I think there needs to be a proper balance. Many people are calling for more traditional, dance elements ie ballet as artistic and "elegance", while looking down on other forms of dance as being just as entertaining and artistic. Those older rules favored specific body types and eastern europeans because of how deeply rouoted ballet has been in their culture. Nothing wrong with that, but there was little room for other cultures and dances. There is a reason why break dancing hasn't really made it into artistic gymnastics although it would be super easy and fun to incorporate. If it were just artistry was truly reflected in the E-score, then there would be fewer complaints of the rise of Simone because she has super high difficulty AND high execution. Her execution on most apparatus (not bars) is among the highest of all competitors, yet people still want to complain. Rhythmic Gymnastics and Ice skating NEEDS an artistry score since musical interpretation is a big part of the sport. That's not the case for modern gymnastics where dance elements can rack up lots of deductions, so much so that most forgo any movements beyond a few hand waves and hip shakes. And Men's gymnastics is not tied to the need for more artistry via dance movements yet that has not stopped them from producing jaw droppingly beautiful and elegant routines.

@daydreamerz

12 күн бұрын

Well said. Artistry scoring gives judges the power to deem one person more artistic than another because they have the eurocentric beauty standard of a flat butt and boyish body. Judging artistry boils down to bias, it's too subjective.

You are so thoughtful in your presentation and you came at the topic from multiple angles. I've always been a gymnastics fan and follow it closely, and this was so fun to watch! Thanks for creating this!

I typically only for into sports where black women were present and or were rising stars like tennis and gymnastics. I would literally cry when Serena Williams would lose a match...I was passionate child lol

@kilimanjaro5537

9 күн бұрын

Same, Simone Biles is the only reason I got into gymnastics!

@passingcough

2 күн бұрын

Well good thing you didn't have to cry often because Serena demolished white women all the time lol

This was super interesting to watch since I know nothing about gymnastics but am a big fan of figure skating!! They have a lot of similarities in the way people talk about the sport "losing artistry for athleticism" (although at least in the women's field this is usually in reference to the prevalence of very petite Russian teenagers winning basically everything between 2014-2022). They also both have very strict ideals for femininity in the women's field. Unfortunately figure skating is much further behind in addressing racism in the sport in my opinion and there are very few Black skaters on the international level. I would love to see more diversity especially in the USFS. This upcoming season for figure skating is going to be very competitive for US women's skating in particular though so I'm excited to see what's going to happen. I'm also kind of excited about gymnastics in the upcoming Olympics even though I've never really watched it before lol

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

I've recently started to watch Figure Skating. I honestly prefer the Ice Dancing to any of the rest of it. But, now I'm paying more attention, I can't wait for more Black people to enter the sport. It is a sport that would lend itself to the athletic and artistic strengths of Black people. Especially watching Ice Dancing, I see that it is mostly choreography and a Black couple could really kill some of these dance genres with some rhythm! I think as with any sport, it will take a coaching team to see the potential of other ethnicities.

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

People don't realize this, especially with the gymnastics sex scandal really tainting the Karolyi's (with good reason even if they didn't know what was going on they should have been looking out), but Marta and Bella gave Black girls a chance, both as coaches and as US team coordinators. Bella also always admired Dominique Dawes (whom he didn't coach). They were not racists and saw the potential in an actual color blind way most born in the US are incapable of. I wish for coaches like that in Figure Skating.

@toda2638

12 күн бұрын

It's funny to me because Michelle Kwan, who came to be known as (and was) a paragon of artistry, burst onto the scene as a triples machine. And then, in "her" moment, lost to a teenager who...did a more athletic routine. And then turned it around and did 7 triples to win her hardest fought worlds...

@cocoroni1031

12 күн бұрын

@@mjamitche5245 Marta and Bella are not color blind... when it comes to medal color 😂😂. But yes, they see talents regardless of your skin color.

@sofia-lk9zt

12 күн бұрын

@@mjamitche5245I agree! Ice dance is my favorite skating discipline and I genuinely can't think of any Black ice dancers of the top of my head at least in international competitions (there might be someone but idk)

I wish you also mentioned the first HBCU gymnastics team at Fisk University. They're making history.

The figure skating backflip was so cool

Thanks for the video! Loved the comparison of the shift in aesthetics

You did a credible job on research. I am very glad that you did this because modern learners tend to only date history from the time since their birth or what's been observed in real time via the lens of social media. Before Gabrielle Douglas was born, a black young woman was medalling at the Olympics, which is something often forgotten or unmentioned. It's hard to believe 20 years passed between Dominique's team bronze (1992) and Gabrielle's AA/T Gold (2012). Thank you for lifting up the names of Lucy, Dianne, Betty, and Dominique. They are the trailblazers. Representation indeed matters.

this video is so well researched, amazing job as usual

really interesting comparisons drawn here, appreciate your centering of historical context, eurocentric values, and pressures placed on black women. also loved ur ending

You made the breakdown of the technical elements in routines seem really effortless! It was super accessible and enjoyable, especially with how seamlessly you combined it with a breakdown of the rhetoric surrounding each gymnast. Love your work!

Thank you for this video! I learned so much

Great Video and have been wanting someone to address this amazing historical and “about time” movement in women’s gymnastics! GREAT JOB!!! Thank you!

I love Gymnastics and to see so many talented young Black Women achieve goals.❤❤ Excellent analysis.

That mic is huge, or maybe you’re small. Perhaps both 🤔

@kyshim1247

14 күн бұрын

Bro what.

@dr.science_0177

13 күн бұрын

Thats what she said

@louis-marieokolo41

13 күн бұрын

I read this comment first, and then she appeared on screen and, I have to say, you're right 😂🤣😂🤣

@bubbles581

13 күн бұрын

​@@louis-marieokolo41same lol I think she must be very small

My question is to those who criticise current gymnastics for losing artistry over athleticism. Why not watch acro or contemporary ? It incorporates both tumbling, flexibility and gracefulness. Or do you view dance subordinate to gymnastics because it is not categorised as a ‘sport’. Duh gymnastics ( like many other sports) has become more competitive.

Very well done video. Swimming is another sport that's notoriously void of diversity due to economics and systematic inequalities i.e. the closing of public pools particularly in urban communities.

Loved your analysis. Thank you for this!

Thank you so much for covering this! You did a great job, and this was very informative.

Good evening! Thank you for researching and sharing the rich history of gymnastics 🙏 you voice is so soothing good job 👍🏿

Even back when I was initially exposed to the sport of gymnastics in May of 2003, I was somewhat unaware of the discrepancy between different skills being viewed as artistic or mechanical. Though I frequently contest it as being one of my favorite "semi-team" sports, there is still a large chunk of material and skills I never learned during that time. Much of what I know about it today I've only learned within the last few years, though I also wasn't sure if you were familiar with another gymnast from India known as "Dipa Karmakar". I myself didn't know the name until she competed during the 2016 Summer Olympics in Rio de Janeiro. Her most recent competition where she meddled was actually just over three weeks ago when she won gold in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. Which also served as a qualifier for Paris next month.

Regarding surya and the backflip: the backflip has long been an illegal item in the sport (since 1972 I think) and she wasn't penalized for it because it's too difficult, it's literally an illegal element. She also did it out of spite because she knew mathematically she wasn't going to medal so she wanted to do an iconic middle finger to the judges. Surya did face lots of racism in the sport but the backflip was not one of them. Also fun fact she skated bare legged because skating tights were never made in a dark enough shade (I think she dyed some but a lot of the times you can see her bare skin)

@deenice7155

12 күн бұрын

Correct! And she was a walking artistic deduction before she even walked onto the ice. Her body size and look was counter everything that Ice skating had become at that time. Every part of her existence was hyper criticized. She was VERY popular, so the establishment was super hesitant to validate her (and her kind) with the gold medal. Her back flip was a big F U to the establishment that had unfairly judged her for her entire professional career.

@creating1_c1999

10 күн бұрын

Spot on.

@KS-lp3ui

10 күн бұрын

I don't understand how Simone's undervalued beam dismount is in any way reminiscent of Surya's backflip, as stated in the video. The backflip was banned after American Terry Kubicka performed it at the 1976 Olympics - 22 years before Surya's defiant backflip in 1998. Surya did it because she was still recovering from an Achilles injury that limited the jumps she was capable of doing (no flip or lutz). She knew she could not medal at her third and final Olympics and took the opportunity to please the crowd and say FU to the judges. (At the 1994 Worlds in Japan, Surya had finished second to Japan's Yuka Sato and infamously refused her silver medal.) For sure there was racism toward Surya, but I don't think discrimination directly played into her lack of a World title or Olympic medal. She was a great jumper but truly lacked the edges and musicality/artistry of many champions - based on her skating, not her color. Her legacy should be her five European titles and three World silver medals, not the perceived injustice of her illegal backflip at the Olympics.

very necessary video. ALSO WHAT CAMERA ARE U USING OMG

I wonder if the same folks have an issue with gymnastics being to acrobatic have the same issue with ladies figure skating being too focused on jumping (a specialty of the Russian skaters). Would the same people that critique Simone's physique would critique the figure skaters the same way? Just a thought.

Thank you for this video, I learned so much!

Great analysis, hope to see more of these in depth video essays from you in other areas - good stuff. Agree, there is more diversity in women’s gymnastics. What I find more interesting is the movement towards more athletic moves and routines in the women’s division. This will be more acceptable as we see more women capable of these routines. Biles of course is a big part of that, showing what is possible. We see this type of change in other sports which reframe the view of what is possible in women’s sports. Gymnastics definitely went through that transition from dominantly an artistic and subjective form to today which is moving towards a more objective athletic one. I welcome the move but do agree there are areas in sports where artistic quality can be an important component, but do see the difficult task when trying to quantify artistry.

You did a really good job on your presentation. ❤️👍🏽👏🏽

this video was go good! kudos! amazing quality i'd love to see you cover the Olympic trials!

I really like how you addressed this topic with so much grace. It takes a very talented individual to address this topic without alienating any side of the equation. Thank you for how cleanly and delicately you discussed an obviously controversial subject. You are an incredibly talented writer and KZreadr. Thank you for your essay on this exceptional picture.

Our bodies are naturally athletic and “strong”. But ultimately we are women just like any other woman and we are just as capable as everyone else. The difference is now we have the disposable incomes to place our children in gymnastics training.

Queen you're a Godsend!.... I just subscribed and told my 13yo daughter to subscribe because you're the exact role model that a young Black girl needs and should support! 👑💜🙏🏾

Good presentation and narration of a well- researched docie🎉🎉❤

Thank you for this well done video! I thoroughly enjoyed. ❤

Firstly thank you for this video and for explaining more of the history! I’m not black, I’m not even american. But I am SO excited to see Simone Biles at the olympics again! My sister and I admire her so much 😍🤩 I’m never such a fangirl about anyone but I honestly feel lucky to live at the same time as her!!! She has incredible physical and mental strength, she’s so kind and caring, she’s an advocate and example of self care, she’s creative with her routines. I used to teach an instrument and I think she has great musicality 💖 Also she has to restrain herself to do even the most difficult moves, like will there be moves powerful enough for her?? And she jumps so high even though she’s tiny! I’m her age and most of us are talking about how we’re falling apart as if we’re 100 😭 She’s going back to the olympics for gymnastics??? She seems better than ever, her composure definitely makes me feel that way but I’m no expert. I am so so so impressed by her and since I’m not a gymnast I’m probably less than half as impressed as I should be I just hope it won’t continue to come at such a cost, it’s hard for any women/girls in sport but adding racism too… 💔 Also tbh from a musician’s perspective I don’t see how there’s less artistry. There’s variety in music and dance styles incorporated into the floor routines, which to a non-gymnast is where the artistry is most evident. And doesn’t the increase in cultural diversity inherently lead to an increase in artistry?? How can artistry have such a narrow definition? It seems contradictory to the idea itself I watch that backflip at least once a year. I don’t think I can comprehend it ❄️

These women are great because they have strength and perseverance and talent and sacrifice all the fun kid thing’s I think it’s great that gymnastics isn’t only tiny little blonde girls only these days But the reason these young women are great has nothing to do with skin color and has everything to do with who they are inside. I could see the point the Russian coach was making about artistry but just thought it was part of the evolution of the sport but Simone added a lot of artistry the first time or two it was hard to watch because it was awkward but by her second meet she had it down and it was amazing. Saying she is being penalized by a skill being to dangerous because it’s not in the code of points would be saying that the people who decide this don’t care about the athletes Nadia Comeniche debuted skills that are banned because of the dangers to the gymnasts. The French figure skater who did the backflip on ice was skating in her last Olympics and had fallen twice and new she wasn’t going to medal and decided to go out on her own terms it was a great moment for her she seemed incredibly proud of herself so she went out on a personal high instead of a personal low she knew when she did it there would be a deduction and that it wouldn’t matter in her score these women of color are amazing gymnasts who deserve every accolade they get but talking about them like race is the only thing that matters seems kind of demeaning. These women are where they are because they work hard and come back day after day. Simone Biles may be the strongest person in the world when she pulled out of the last Olympics she believed everyone was going to hate her for not trying but she knew what was best for her there have been a ton of athletes who play hurt and get hurt worse none of them had the courage to stand up to the coach

Wow! I'm 72. I remember a lot of what you talked about. You did a spectacular! Your depth of knowledge, the amount of research you must have put into this project is to be respected. You have earned a new fan!

Im excited to see who is selected for the women's gymnastics team

@benjamin_6945

13 күн бұрын

Caitlin Clark 😂😂😂

@miraid06

13 күн бұрын

@@benjamin_6945😂😂😂

@piratesswoop725

11 күн бұрын

Simone and Shilese 100% then probably Suni, Skye and either Kayla or Jade. Jade’s inclusion is going to depend on whether or not she can upgrade her difficulty.

@KS-lp3ui

10 күн бұрын

​@@piratesswoop725I wholeheartedly agree with your picks. Looking forward to Trials!

Love your podcast I like seeing the variety in this sport.

As an American I could care less what color you are. If your good your good. Tiger brought golf to a new level, Venus and Sarina brought a new level to Tennis. Pretty sure you get my point. At some point we need to past color and focus on the gift. Black, brown however you want to put it are gifted in just about any field. Music, sports etc. God bless America

@cyndipowell1027

5 күн бұрын

We didn’t create race, yt ppl did! So you need to direct your comments to whom this nonsense started. Just saying🤷🏽‍♀️

This was an outstanding video. I loved your opinions and the way you backed them up with evidence by citing history. Great job!

It's funny because I bet the majority of the comments regarding Gabbys hair/edges being too messy came from other black folks.... that's always been in a thing in the community is tearing each other down over their hair... Nonetheless it will be exciting to see so many melanin and diverse girlies on the team this year!! 🙌

Amazing analysis

I’m about to go down a gymnastics loop hole. Never thought about this and glad you’re talking about this!

I remember being so obsessed with Gabby as a little gymnast girl. I’m not black but she was so inspiring to me and I avidly followed her Olympic career. Now I’m obsessed with Simone and suni Lee. Seeing how diverse the American team is really makes me proud of my country something I don’t often feel nowadays. Simone is so beautiful and I love what’s she’s doing not only for the difficulty of the sport but also for advocating for mental health and athletes taking care of their minds and bodies.

"The expression of emotion through movement" 21:32 Those words perfectly describe why I love women's artistic gymnastics and ice dancers, such as Tessa Virtue & Scott Moyer and Vasilisa & Valeriy. I really enjoy Shilese Jones's style of gymnastics. I love the combination of athleticism, balletic movement and emotional expression. Simone Rose is also fun to watch. I don't think an increase of difficulty centers around race. Jade Carey has a lot of difficulty but not as much fluidity and emotion imo. So, I agree that as we increase the difficulty in gymnastics, the grace, artistry and emotional expression needs to continue with it. Regardless of the race of the athlete.

Yas!

this is a PERFECT video. i did gymnastics growing up and i follow the sport very closely (im even going to the olympic trials for gymnastics next week!) well done on your research-i am so happy to see such diversity on team USA and i cannot wait to see who makes the team ❤

I think the change is a great example of why representation matters. When you can see yourself in the athletes, your dreams feel more achievable. Dianne Durham, Betty Okino, and Dominique Dawes were some of the most talented American gymnasts of their times.

I loved gymnastics growing up but I don’t know if it was a lack of offerings near me or if it was prohibitively expensive but it just wasn’t available in the late 80s-90s as say ballet. I wonder if there was a parental bias for safety reasons or something?

@mjamitche5245

13 күн бұрын

I was a Black girl in gymnastics in the 80's and 90's living in a very small metro area in a mostly rural farm state. Gymnastics gyms are always in an industrial part of town as they are usually located in a warehouse around other warehouses. I competed in 2 states at several gymnasiums, and have visited Nastia Liukin's and Leanne Wong's gyms. It's kind of scary, but they have to have huge ceilings and large doors to bring in the apparatuses like the uneven bars, rings, etc as well as have the ceiling space for tumbling, trampoline, climbing ropes, vaulting, etc. So it would be hard to discover if it's not a sport others in your community are doing. My family and I watched the 1984 Olympics on television and I asked my mom if I could do gymnastics. She looked up Parks and Recreation classes, which is how I got started. But there was only 1 other Black girl in the metro competing on my level by the time I quit at 15 after my 2nd injury. I do think it's as affordable as dance, if you're not going to WOGA or some well known gym. My nieces are now in gymnastics. The 8 year old competes on Team and it's the same price as her tap and ballet lessons.

Im so glad you made this video! I didn’t know the history of artistic gymnastics :)

I did gymnastics as a kid and young teen, because my grandmother front of the lessons, but when we moved to a very small town, and the nearest gymnastics gym was over two hours away, and that was the end of gymnastics. In order to thrive in the sport, or even have a chance to thrive in the sport, there has to be a good, gymnastics, gym, locally, a lot of time and energy and money from parents, and a tenacious child. A lot of girls start gymnastics and are quite good at it, but once they get to puberty, drop out because it was her other interests, or they start to realize that the big changes in their bodies make a lot of moves harder.

This is such a good video 🤗 Also you should look into voice work if you haven’t done so before, you were so soothing to listen to!!

I loved your video! Keep it going 😊

Ok my final thought (lol): Some sports favor certain body types. There are lean, muscular, tall, short, etc. That's why we rarely see Asians in track and field events, and why Michael Phelps was perfect for swimming. If a sport highlights a certain body type, is that okay?

@doll.ov.poetrii4682

10 күн бұрын

Gabby Douglas has that body type and she still faced the discrimination of the other black girls who didn't. It's much deeper than just not fitting the body profile...

@tiffanybrown1001

10 күн бұрын

@@doll.ov.poetrii4682 I believe you’re right that it goes deeper, sadly. I wonder who Gabby got comments about her hair in 2012. Whites, blacks or a mix of people.

@piratesswoop725

10 күн бұрын

@@tiffanybrown1001 It was mostly black people since we're the ones who noticed it more.

Very well researched video. Thanks for the inclusion of Dianne Durham, my favorite American gymnast as a young teenager (better than Mary Lou, I thought), and omg...I almost forgot Lucy Collins myself! 😮

Amazingggg work 🤩

if gymnastics is a sport and they are athletes, then they should be more focused on athleticism. now if they're going to be on stage performing like ballerinas then okay I get why you would focus more on artistry but that's not the case.

@aliciamcdonald7105

12 күн бұрын

AMEN! The thing is, Men's gymnastics is ALSO called ARTISTIC gymnastics but NO ONE gripes about the lack of that in men's routines which tells me this is about the fact that black women, Simone in particular has not only fully entered the fray of gymnastics but is DOMINATING the field.

@doll.ov.poetrii4682

10 күн бұрын

Exactly. It's literally called GYM nastics. I have never witnessed any ballerina like exercising in a gym unless it's stretching!!!

I am a first-time listener, and i loved the content .

One of my favorite Olympics sports even though I understand very little. It's the power of these small people that grabs me, have me wondering at their ages. Even in slower motion, I have problem counting twists & turns but it's beautiful. I do remember when Nadia Komenichi "owned" the Olympics. This Paris Olympics, I will be contrasting the female body types of America vs China, I tend to like them both.

I am really glad that you've done this video. I t answered very important questions regarding the barriers for blacks in this sport. Great information! I am so proud of the females that have taken their place in these history making events.

Excellent podcast. You are very talented.

im still getting goosebumps watching Dawes tumble

I always wanted to be a gymnast. Started too late but around the same age of Gabby and Simone!

Great content! ❤❤❤

To me, we should implement everywhere the system we have in Poland - the government gives donations to sports clubs, making sports accessible - for example horse riding lessons can cost the equivalent of 10 USD per class - same is with any other sport. Swimming? 20 USD per month - classes are twice- three times a week - depends on the level. Freestyle snowboarding and freestyle skiing? Not a problem - 200 - 250 USD per entire year - training camps are partially funded as well, so athletes and aspiring athletes instead of spending 2000 USD plus, spend smh like 500, and that includes a skipass - and we’re talking training camps in the summer on the glacier in France

Good work

New sub! Thanks so much for making a video about my favorite sport and favorite athlete of all time, Simone Biles!!! ❤