I had no idea people were tucking a whole Blockbuster Trilogy between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. That sounds so crazy, I would have never guessed people would actually defend that position.

@realDonaldMcElvy

Жыл бұрын

In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. And the Earth was without form, because the Annunaki made a mess of everything and needed to start over.

@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep

Жыл бұрын

@@realDonaldMcElvy Really? There is immense history between those two verses stated in the rest of the bible. It's mind blowing WLC knows of the classical view yet rejects it as it's the only one that lines up with everything of every aspect. here is my other comment I'll paste so you get an idea of some of the stuff mentioned in the bible for that time period. Nah WLC you are way off on this one. The classic gap theory as you put can be heavily substantiated in the biblical text. Indeed we see the preAdamic race(demons) that the bible says had cities and nations on the earth and Lucifer had sanctuary and throne on the earth meaning he was king and priest over the earth and to give Gods word to the earth and he corrupted it the bible says when he turned against God and thus corrupted the inhabitants of the earth. God cast Lucifer out of heaven destroyed the earth flooded it sealed the sky the bible says and no warmth from no light hitting the surface so ice age which the bible confirms saying earth covered in frost. God says he will not make a full end to the earth meaning he will restore it which he did in the 7 days of restoration work. This is also how demons are disembodied earth bound spirits that seek a vessel. They aren't fallen angels which are heaven bound spirits with a body. Both are in different underworlds pit/abyss vs tartarus paul wrote. Bible says the inhabitants got scattered, humans would die from such destruction these are obviously demons and how they lost their bodies. God also rebuked that flood and it instantly subsided. All this and more never happened with Noahs flood or after nor will it happen in the future. Even if it didn't say when which it does logic dictates it happened before man. Furthermore the picture in Gen 1:2 is a destroyed flooded frozen earth in an ice age after an extinction event, everything God makes is good and bible says God made earth to be inhabited. God never made a Gen 1:2 earth so the context begs the question of a mass of events that happened. Furthermore the seven days the words used are restoration. "Let" is not a word of creation but permission, God said let there be light God was unsealing the sky like the text says he earlier sealed in his judgment. Also if you reject all of this context the sequence of events in the seven days is nonsensical from a natural perspective. The classical view is the only logical view, everything makes sense, lines up, and chronologically lines up, and naturallistically lines up.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep Please share your method of determining there was "an immense history" between Gen 1:1-1:2 Like a math test, show your work or you're a cheating liar. Don't worry, I already expect you didn't apply any actual degree of effort into this atall. You believers aren't knowledgeable. Knowledge is not belief, they're not synonyms or even remotely approaching parallel. And wlc is a grifter preying on people's gullibility and stupidity. Just like them all. He's a predator getting paid to cobble together malarkey for idiots who are so undereducated they don't know better. Like any conman he knows how to pick his marks. Which are those whom are even dumber than he is.🤭(just like you)

@seankennedy4284

Жыл бұрын

How do you go from complete ignorance of a theory, to confidently determining it is nothing but silliness, all in the span of a KZread short?

@Mojo32

11 ай бұрын

​@@WaterspoutsOfTheDeepAll of that is really interesting actually. And reminding that the word "let" is more permission than creation, i hadn't thought of that before but there is some logic in that statement 🤔

One of the OT professors from whom I take classes says that what explains the apparent time difference between Genesis 1.1 and 1.2 has no relation with time at all but with Hebrew grammar. What happens is that the first verse is written in something he called "perfective form" (I don't know if English native speakers use the same terminology), which means it is describing a complete action or event; on the other hand, the second one starts the account of how that final picture took place. The same pattern is observable in the account of Abraham's faith test by God in Genesis 22. The first sentence is written in perfective form, meaning that God certainly tested Abraham, while the following text in the narrative describes how God did that.

@difficultjourney3216

Жыл бұрын

Your professor was totally correct. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." It's an opening statement on what is to follow. That is, the account of God creating the heaven and earth. The rest of the narrative reveals exactly that. The gap theories are bunk mostly invented to try and harmonize the Bible to modern "scientific" claims that the earth is billions of years old.

The earth 'was' void and without form. Some translation going off older manuscripts suggest 'was' is really 'became.' the earth became void and without form, implying something pre existed. The NIV translation makes this note in footnotes

@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep

Жыл бұрын

That's just the tip of the iceberg. All that does is heavily hint to a big amount of history that took the earth to that point. Given everything God creates is good and bible says God created earth to be inhabited a Gen 1:2 earth is clearly not how God made it whether was or become is used it still begs the question. And everything in the seven days is restoration, "let" is not a word of creation. So it's mind blowing how WLC rejects the classical view which has everything make sense.

@SaintMattheus

8 ай бұрын

​@@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep'Let' is a word repeatedly associated with creation. For example: "And God said, Let us make make man in our our image..." (Genesis 1:26). This is just one of many. I have heard this talking point before and would encourage you to stop repeating this nonsense.

@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep

8 ай бұрын

@@SaintMattheus "Let" really is not a word associated with creation. "Let" is a word of permission not creation. The 7 days in Genesis God was restoring the earth. Basically if you want to get into it, God created everything Gen 1:1 as the text states, Gen 1:2 earth is in an ice age, destroyed flooded frozen earth no light no warmth. Did God created the earth like that? No. Bible states everything God creates is good and the earth was created to be inhabited. That is not good. In fact the more accurate translation says the earth "became" formless and void further pointed to something happened and there is a time gap with events that happened between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. To cut this short to not write a book the events are the preAdamic race only described as demons that Lucifer turned against God the bible says. God destroys flood and seals the sky of the earth and casts Lucifer out of heaven to the earth. The bible even goes so far as to state the earth was covered in frost. "Let" there be light is not creating light, it's God unsealing the sky the light was already around, and so on and so on. That is why the text also states the angels were present to witness because God promised he would not make a full end to the earth. The description of the preAdamic flood is also different from the Noahic flood, and it had to happen before because God promised never to destroy by flood again. List goes on and on. It's all in the KJV bible, this isn't the book of mormon or watchtower. And several authors have gone to the trouble to write books going into detail cross referencing every point and going step by step on it. One being war in the heavenlies by benny hinn as one example. This is why demons are disembodied earthbound spirits from that destruction, why Lucifer had dominion over the earth and motivation to tempt adam and eve and all heavily ties into the work of the cross ultimately as why Jesus had to come as the second Adam for us and so on and so on with so much more detail that is fascinating. I suggest buying one of the books to go over the verses. I have the audio of war in the heavenlies on my channel, it starts around 11-12 minutes in if you are interested.

@HolyGrounds33

6 ай бұрын

"LET US create man in our image and likeness" meaning the trinity, just like in Genesis 1:1 God is actually Elohim (in the Jewish text), which means multiple, "God's" in Hebrew.

I'm a young earth Christian that believes Adam and Eve were created as adults mature enough for mating just as the earth was created mature enough for all life. There is no definitive answer for these questions so yes, I do go off on faith for the creation account based off the evidence provided by Moses and evidence of an intelligent designer in nature and science.

I'm a fan of science. That's exactly why I'm sceptical that the earth is as old as secular, mainstream scientists largely agree it is. Way too many holes. If you think it's a cut-and-dry fact, then I'm sorry to say you're mistaken. It's a guess; a theory. A weak one, too. Catastrophism vs. uniformitarianism - look it up.

What God created is beautiful and without chaos, what do you think caused the chaos in Gen 1:2?

@jeremiahwilliams2021

5 ай бұрын

That part...

@Forensist

5 ай бұрын

@jeremiahwilliams2021 The presence of darkness caused the chaos and that's why God's response to darkness both then and now is 'Light'. To understand the darkness and the untold part of Genesis 1:1-2, Slowly read Jer 4

Except that Exodus 20:11 reconfirms that creation were indeed 6 literal earth days "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested."

While he is a very astute and educated man, he shows his ignorance by submitting only to a traditional theory. There are other theories concerning this gap theory, which can be proven through scriptures, which Lane Craig doesn’t even provide here.

@seankennedy4284

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Just learned about the existence of so-called 'gap theory' very recently. Unfortunately, Dr. Craig here---all too conveniently---dismisses the very possibility of such a gap, via what (clearly) appears to be a strawman, i.e., pigeonhole all versions of the theory into a representative, and ostensibly dismiss the lot, via dismissing the representative. His argument falls flat, to say the least.

I’ll make it easy for you, a day for god is not a 24 hour Earth day. A thousand years is his sight are like and evening gone. What we scientifically found to be evolution, is creation. Gods day is more like millions of years for us.

Which interview is this?

Graig missed a simple verse. Exodus 20:11 KJV For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

To understand what the word day means in Genesis 1, look at the words evening and morning. What kind of day has evening and morning in it? The same day we sleep and wake up on today. Then read Exodus 20 and see that for the same amount of time God worked to make the heavens and the earth in the beginning, the same amount of time he told the children of Israel to work too. So if day does not mean ordinary day, how long should the Israelites work before they rested? And how long should they rest before they begin to work again?

@andrhof01

Жыл бұрын

Excellent points.

@unsightedmetal6857

Жыл бұрын

It's called figurative language. The six days of creation are built like a poem. Each day starts with "And God said" and then a "let" statement. Each day contains a statement of God naming something or some things. Each day ends with the evening and morning--the xth day. There are multiple reasons to interpret some of Genesis as figurative. This is one of them. Other reasons: Literary framework view The meaning of the names in Genesis 5 (prophecy!) The extremely low likelihood of the lifespan numbers themselves in Genesis Genesis 17:17 implies that humans can only have children earlier on in their lives. The ages in Genesis 5 and 11 must therefore be figurative, which is consistent with the previous point. Note: I am a Christian. But together, all of this is strong evidence that parts of Genesis are meant to be figurative. This should not damage your faith, but strengthen it, because Christianity is therefore more compatible with scientific understanding.

@Justatreecutter

Жыл бұрын

@unsightedmetal6857 was it figurative when God said the Israelites had to work the same amount of time as he did? Or he meant they should literally keep the sabbath day holy and work the other six days? Was it figurative when the serpent deceived Eve? Was it figurative when God told them not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Is it figurative that sin entered into the world and death by sin? If we start figurativizing Genesis, where do we stop? It is because of how literal Genesis is that Jesus had to be made flesh and come to save us. The best proof it is not figurative is Hebrew grammar itself that shows every time there is a number before the word day like first, second, third and so forth, it always an ordinary day. When there is no number then the day could mean something like, there was a day in in my uncle's days when he worked at a farm during the day. In this case the word day means something other than the 24 hours day, but as soon as you put a number before the word day, Hebrew grammar shows it is a normal 24 hours day.

@ricksonora6656

Жыл бұрын

@@Justatreecutter I know you must know that words can have different meanings in different contexts and that they can also be used as metaphors. So, when you compare different situations to make the point that ‘day’ can have only one meaning, I wince. For example, you use rhetorical questions about Genesis 3, the beginning of human history, to establish that Genesis 1 and 2 must be interpreted the same way. But rhetorical questions often hide assumptions. This time, ayou assume that the accounts of creation and of Adam’s life must be interpreted the same way. You probably recognize that the prophecy in Matthew 24 conflates the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD with the Great Tribulation, and the prophecies about Jesus conflate His first and second comings. The author (Moses, I assume) of Genesis wasn’t there at creation. No human was. It’s reasonable to assume God gave a vision of creation. People have made a mess of things, many times, thinking they grasped all the chronological details of prophetic visions. I know God created. HOW He created, I’ll keep an open mind about. But He that comes to God must believe that He is. If talking to a materialistic atheist, agnostic, or deist, I have tools that YECs do not have for removing barriers to faith in Christ.

@reg7916

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely

One way to think of Genesis, is like a time lapsed video. If creation was revealed to the author in this way, then they would not be able to explain the vastness of revelation. The important points are there is a creator and we were made in his image.

@FlankerJackChannel

Жыл бұрын

How about we come to the conclusion that none of us are intelligent enough to comprehend the awesome power of any god and anyone who says they are are trying to sell you something.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

You understand that "if" being part of your premise makes it weaker not adds strength..right?

@FlankerJackChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@jrskp3677 it's easier for low intelligence and easily led people to follow the words that were created for social control and a few elites to maintain power than it is to challenge that belief.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@FlankerJackChannel That sounds too "conspiracyee" for me. It's easier to con someone than it is to show them they've been fooled. That one carries weight. However it's really something for these otherwise normal adult humans that pretend make-believe is concordant with objective reality whenever there's no correlation between them. I don't know how they function in life.🤷🏼

@FlankerJackChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@jrskp3677 who wrote and edited the bible for their own needs?

I love WLC. Regarding the age of the universe and the questions of evolution I disagree with him. The thought of hundreds of millions of years of animal macroevolution, death and suffering on the planet, before humans were even created, makes zero sense to me. Even if it's suggested that evolution was guided by God. I understand there might not be a logical or philosophical problem in harmonizing the Biblical account with the billions of years and the theory of evolution. But personally I don't find this credible at all.

@GayorgVonTrapp

Жыл бұрын

The universe is not obligated to make sense to you.

@armiii2554

Жыл бұрын

that is called an argument from personal incredulity 😉

@Liminalplace1

Жыл бұрын

The bible doesn't attempt to give a scientific account. It neither brings in macro evolution nor discounts it just read the text in it's ancient near Eastern context...verse 2 is almost the same as the Babylonian Forming of the world from Tiamat..for an ancient reader it's clear it's playing on that to say God is the real source of the creation .not gods of forces

@americanlostinvietnam3721

Жыл бұрын

If you are referring to pre-Adam evolution involving birds and sea animals, then OK. However land animals were created the same day as man and Matthew gives the genealogy of Jesus going all the way back to Adam and this eliminates the possibility of evolution concerning humanity.

@Liminalplace1

Жыл бұрын

@@americanlostinvietnam3721 not so.. the authority of those scriptures comes from the author's intention in what they wrote.. WLC is correct. Human might have evolved..it's not reveal in scripture but it's possible

Please brothers and sisters. If look at genesis 1:1 in the Hebrew theres a independent clause . So it should be translated like when God created the heavens and the earth , the earth was formless and void . This indicates there was a time before God brought order to the earth . Please watch inspiring philosophy videos on genesis 1-11 regardless if you’re Christian or atheist he actually breaks down how genesis is probably best ment to be read

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

But you're skipping the whole portion where this agent is confirmed to exist before asserting it as being responsible for anything. That's kinda more important than the rest. Meaning it's not built on a foundation that's evidentially certain.

@jthomas7904

9 ай бұрын

Now, please translate Genesis 2 : 1 -2. Seventh day from what?

Pls explain prehistoric animals! Genuine question

@melchior2678

Жыл бұрын

prehistoric is kind of a misnomer but it generally refers to events that occurred before the advent of writing and historical documentation.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

There isn't any. The ancient ignorant bigoted primitives that cobbled together these errant stories in an attempt to make sense of things utterly failed because they didn't know there was a time before. Otherwise the descriptions of earlier epochs life forms would've included 🦖🦕 🦣 and the other undescribed and unlisted animals that definitely existed before they made-up the whole storyline. How could they describe pterodactyls, mosasaur or diplodocus if they weren't alive or an ichthyosaur in a cliffside bluff exposed by erosion that looked like a fish but was a reptile? So, everything was magically created at once and it only includes modern animals from the interglacial period we're currently still in. Because that's all they knew and since they were so smart, they also thought the Earth was orbited by the sun and stars/galaxies are just lights in the sky that fall to earth sometimes 🤷🏼

Let's create theories to try and fit the Biblical narrative into a modern understanding of world history and science.

@cyberjayhd7051

Жыл бұрын

@heyman5525 Can you explain the differences in more detail, please, if you don't mind

@cyberjayhd7051

Жыл бұрын

@@heyman5525 They both sound equally ridiculous to me but thanks

@lamar8358

Жыл бұрын

I don't understand people putting so much blind faith in science. I'm convinced that atheists don't investigate their own beliefs with the same skepticism as they do with theology. The rapid expansion theory makes no sense. What created it? What caused the expansion? How is the universe an intelligent design with no intention behind it? How does a condense ball of light particles expand and create consciousness? How does everything come from absolutely nothing? How is it so unreasonable to believe that because we are conscious, thinking beings, whatever created us must have also been conscious and thinking. How is it more reasonable to believe that everything came from nothing on a whim for no reason at all?

@aaronruss6331

Жыл бұрын

Is that now how faith and reason work? Biblical writers simply wrote within the timeframe that they lived in and existed in a culture of the time and used a form of language and dialect that we dont necessarily use today. An obvious example from a far later period would be shakespears writing. No one today speaks like this so of course wheb reading the bible or any older book,this fact is important to remember. The bible is not a scientific book. People spoke and revealed gods revelations to them in the langiage and cukturr they knew at the time.

@cyberjayhd7051

Жыл бұрын

@@aaronruss6331 Sarcasm mate

Genesis 2:3 key words “all” , “works”

@jthomas7904

9 ай бұрын

2 : 2 All His work on the Seventh day... I ask these "Gap" personalities.... 7th day from what? 😂

Lovely argument. As usual, apologists move things around to try to make it all fit. Of course, it doesn’t fit and never could, but they insist on trying anyway. The clear logical reason is always discarded in favour of fantasy.

@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep

Жыл бұрын

Ironically the classical view he mentioned here and rejects has EVERYTHING all fit amazingly. So it's mind blowing he rejects it.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

The preferred narrative must be upheld in spite of what's objectively verifiable and actually factually part of reality. 🤷🏼 For 'reasons'...

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@LobaGold You'd be correct, if he actually did that. Wlc twists and perverts what the scientific method has already found to fit into the preferred narrative. He's an apologist, that's what they do ; make excuses that keep people believing and donating money to them for free without government oversight. And you fall into the category of "mark" for these grifters perpetrating falsehoods for monetary gains and personal profit. You've been conned, as it were, whether or not you can grasp it. You've been had, duped, taken to the cleaners on an evidently fictional account.

Between Genesis 1:1 & 1:2 the evening and the morning was the first day. No gap, No space in time, just one day! How could there have been life without the sun, or the moon, or stars? There would be no gravity, no heat, nothing to support life.

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Genesis 1:2 I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone. I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking; all the hills were swaying. I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away. I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert; all its towns lay in ruins before the Lord, before his fierce anger. Jeremiah 4:23‭-‬26 For this is what the Lord says- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited- he says: “I am the Lord, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:18

Bible is the word of God

@jjevans1693

Жыл бұрын

No its not. Its the word of uneducated morons that didn't even know what a germ was!!!!! 😊

@leeknighton5042

Жыл бұрын

Which god ??

@daMillenialTrucker

Жыл бұрын

​@@leeknighton5042theres only 1 God and one day you WILL meet Him 😂

@BiblicalMuse

Жыл бұрын

Yep

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

Says who? Did someone objectively verify this specific statement which makes it true? Doubtful.

Let's fold, spindle and mutilate until it fits.

Can anyone explain when where angels created in which day ?And also Lucifer’s rebellion?

Here’s the best analysis of genesis I ever heard. “It’s a myth’. Enjoy it for what it was. A creation myth like countless others.

@difficultjourney3216

Жыл бұрын

Really?I guess the thought that your great, great, great grand parents were monkeys is much more rational.

@WaterspoutsOfTheDeep

Жыл бұрын

Myth? It's so accurate it's where we get the big bang theory from lmao you are ridiculous.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@difficultjourney3216 That's better than thinking we're the inbred descendants of Noah's family members... At least there's evidence to support the contrary. But, you just keep thinking or well more accurately 'trying to think', how about that incest part?

@seankennedy4284

Жыл бұрын

Noah's flood, by all appearances, actually happened. Yet , everybody's been taught THAT was "just a myth," as well. See Dr. Kurt Wise (PhD, geology, Harvard), "90 Minutes of Geological Evidence for Noah's Flood."

Twisting and turning. Its just a good story.

Demons leading you to hell. But all will kneel soon

Twisting the words of a work of fiction like the Bible in order to fit into scientific fact just to maintain religious power over people is the highest form of intellectual fallacy.

@langre_2

Жыл бұрын

That is what im saying. Like i know that is the only way to do it bc the book was written 2000 years ago but it just seems so faulty to me. Literally whoever wrote the bible was super smart bc they tried to manipulate the words to where you could interpret it differently after more about the universe was discovered.

@FlankerJackChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@langre_2 The original script was written 2000 odd years ago but then it's been edited and changed for viewer consumption just like a movie on an airplane.

@Linkin-park555

Жыл бұрын

​@@FlankerJackChannel alterado por quem?

WLC prefers his own type of gross speculation respective to the creation events, that of a G_D sourced evolution that requires death as the driving force. 'theologian/philosophers' are the most confused of all of us

@seankennedy4284

Жыл бұрын

Indeed. A self-contradictory theory. And, more importantly, a theory in direct contradiction to the creation account in Genesis.

‘A lengthy amount of time’ You mean 13 billion years??? 😂

But there absolutely no reason to believe that there is a creator. You can try all the retrospective interpretation you want but you still have no demonstrable facts to support such a hypothesis.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

That is correct. And if they did they wouldn't refer to themselves as 'believer' and would be 'knowers' or 'evidencers' or something equally random and dumb. Most of them didn't know that they were supposed to ask questions before they took as fact that which evidently isn't 🤷🏼 because so few of them learned how to do logical processes and such. That part may be on purpose, like childhood indoctrination. What's the point of teaching children to be skeptical and not apply it to religion? To have more donating cultists that breed more and more in near infinitum.

My theory is that the six days God took to create the universe was actually just condensed time as he let the universe stew for a bit as all the rules he put in place did its thing and he adjusted what he needed to to create the earth

@mauricegibney8449

Жыл бұрын

I had a condensed week last week while working. I managed to do a lot in that week, being seven literal days according to Exodus 20:11... I'd hate to think what sort of a week I would have if I stuck a magical million years between Wednesday and Thursday... That would be a tough week!

Today is proof that we created the dinosaurs. There's no gap if you know where time begins and ends. Time has two ends and one point of origin.

What is myth God creating or nothing creating?

@jjevans1693

Жыл бұрын

Stop making stupid statements you indoctrinated fool.

@jjevans1693

11 ай бұрын

Virgin births, resurrections, miracles, Dec born Messiah's and even the ten commandments were all stolen from Greek and Egyptian myths before the bible was even written. Talking about myths now are we. lol lol.

@onestepaway3232

11 ай бұрын

@@jjevans1693 God had his hand in all of it. If you believe God is a myth, you will certainly find out one day. That is an absolute fact. Until then keep wrestling

@jjevans1693

11 ай бұрын

@@onestepaway3232 Assertions aren't facts chump.

@jjevans1693

11 ай бұрын

@@onestepaway3232 Just Google myths from previous cultures used in the Bible. I don't think the Bible is based on myths. It's fact.

With every scientific discovery...how can we fit this into the bible? Come on now everyone, think! Get creative! There must be something! We need to shoehorn this in somehow!

God created 1.Time 2. Space 3. Matter after Genesis 1:1 No Gap theory period! God bless ❤

Low bar Bill

If God did not need time to create Adam as a fully mature human then we would imagine God could also do the same for all creation. That is if God could create a 30 year old in an instant, He could also create a billion year old universe in an instant also.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

Part of your idea is 'imagine', which doesn't help your position. Haven't you thought about that? You think a space ghost miraculously created existence from nothingness, right? "In the beginning there was god" being alone in space without a physical form devoid of matter, 👻 ✨ 💥 universe?

he didnt back anything he said with scipture

Was creating Adam & Even who did the one thing God told them not to do and screwed up everything so badly that Jesus had to die to make things right considered 'botched'? Of course not. Was creating angels of whom 1/3 rebelled against God considered 'botched'? Of course not. So why claim a possible creation event that may have terminated for whatever reasons considered 'botched'.

That which is asserted without evidence should be dismissed. The god of the gaps fallacy is a fallacious argument, meaning it's bad.

@Papa-dopoulos

Жыл бұрын

This has nothing to do with the god of the gaps fallacy. I know how excited you unbelievers are to jump on it when you hear the word “gap,” but if you want to understand the video correctly, slow down, take off the goggles, and watch it again.

@cvas282

Жыл бұрын

@@Papa-dopoulos a theist telling an atheist to “take off the goggles” is the pot calling the kettle black 😂

@GoToLiturgy

Жыл бұрын

God*

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@GoToLiturgy Your attempt to correct my word is noted. I know what I typed and meant it. What about it 🤔 triggers your response? g/G 🤷🏼 lame.

@GoToLiturgy

Жыл бұрын

@@jrskp3677 well I mean God being OUR creator is to be given respect and he even says don’t use my name in vein so it’s just my way of using his name not in vein while typing/writing. It doesn’t trigger me if you don’t it just might or might not trigger God but I don’t wanna take the chance plus it is only a half of a half of a half of a second to capitalize the G.

Low Bar Bill 😂

The problem is if tomorrow scientists unilaterally change their position to fit a literal Genesis interpretation now he has to retract everything he said…This is the problem with Theistic Evolution and OECs. Even for ID they have this issue. If we can change what Gen 1 means why not anywhere else in the Bible?

Craig there is plenty in scripture to justify the belief and has nothing to do with prehistoric animals

Yeah the gap theory is ridiculous, yet Satan is already Satan when Adam and Eve are in the Garden…. Think abt that . I understood that when i was a child. Gal theory makes perfect sense especially if you read it in Hebrew . Its wording is more descriptive and accurate. This guy just hasn’t done his homework before making this assertion

Apostates will be judged for what they are.

Except that if it’s wrong, it’s herasy

Classic theory? More classic fantasy

It’s a shame people like this influence so many gullible people.

@BigPapiCapone

Жыл бұрын

Idc what you believe but wdym by someone like this? The PhD holding apologist and theologian has over a ten thousand citations and has had over 100 books published. Sure YOU might think that he is wrong but that doesn’t mean he isn’t someone who people can get insight from. So if someone who is more intelligent than you in every capacity, which Dr. William Lane Craig is, is somehow an idiot, then what does that make you?

@jjevans1693

Жыл бұрын

@@BigPapiCapone ANYONE THAT LISTENS TO CRAIG FOR ONE MINUTE KNOWS HE'S AN IDIOT. UNLESS OF COURSE IF THAT PERSON IS JUST AS DELUSIONAL.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@BigPapiCapone There's no support in reality of a miraculous creation by a space ghost. Consequently, there is evidence to the contrary which is called evolution from common descent. Wlc is a grifter preying on people's gullibility and susceptibility to believe in things without solid, good and credible evidence. Because they don't know how to form a conclusion that involves more than "I heard it, it makes sense so, I "choose" to believe it", like choosing makes it better or real.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

And he makes millions every single year due to this. Me thinking about it - 🤔🤨🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

@seankennedy4284

Жыл бұрын

Ad hominem doesn''t cut it, either.

No

Oh yea. Wonder what changed his mind? The bible? I doubt it!

I don't know about botched, but that is really what Genesis teaches: There was a first creation where the angels were tested and that resulted in the satanic rebellion to which man was God's answer in the second creation, which wasn't really a new creation like the first. The first creation was a perfect universe made ex nihilo in an instant of time. The second one was a remaking of that universe after God destroyed it with His judgment of the Satanic rebellion. So, I wouldn't say botched at all. The angels were created and tested by the Lord to see if they would want to be part of His eternal family. A third of them led by Satan did not want that. They wanted a universe without God. That led to a lot of corruption and abuse of the perfect universe of perfect flora and fauna that God had entrusted to them. After all the angels had had their time to respond to the Satanic rebellion, God destroyed everything and then remade it to create a new species to replace the rebel angels. All of this was according to His eternal plan.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

Where are you getting this information from? Please make specific citations for where I may find this myself, independently. List the authors names and book titles, that's all. Unless you have a direct page number and sentence to get me there more quickly.

@OdiiAriwodo

Жыл бұрын

​@@jrskp3677 Hi. This is my third attempt. You'll want to google "Dr. Robert Luginbill The Genesis Gap." Wish I could discuss it more completely with you, but that is a very thorough treatment by itself.

PLAUSIBLE?

Could be. The Bible isn’t clear on this. Vast times are irrelevant to God

Ok ok. Just a bit that good fairy tale. Time to Move on

@BigPapiCapone

Жыл бұрын

Holy shit, why don’t you just take a look around you at this world? Demons are very much real.

@didzouille

Жыл бұрын

@@BigPapiCapone oh really. I never saw one. This is superstition. Nothing else.

@BTCministries7

6 ай бұрын

@@didzouillesilly to think you can see things that are spiritual

Genesis 1:1 is just telling you what GOD did as an overall. He created everything, that’s the beginning of creation. Genesis 1:2-1:31 was just telling you the entire precise way. You have the general statement, then the description of that statement, this isn’t that hard. Anybody who says there’s a gap between the two and there’s two creation accounts there, just point them to Genesis 1:9-10. This is the detailed account of GOD creating the earth. If they think it’s two separation creations, they must think it’s two separate earths. If it’s two separate earths then everything before it in the gap doesn’t affect this earth. If they think there were dinosaurs in that gap and GOD made a mistake, that would have to be on the other earth. It disproves itself. By saying there is a large gap or gaps, you are saying that you don’t believe GOD’s words so you got to twist it as best as you can to fit into what everyone else says. I refer you to Romans 3:4. Believe GOD over man.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

Because a space ghost miraculously created existence from nothingness is meaningful. Are you sure? If so, what have you done to ensure your position is legitimate and true? Please share your method with me so I too can follow the process as well to form the same conclusion you have. Thanks.

@bhaveaniceday5392

Жыл бұрын

@@jrskp3677 by using language you just disproved atheism, congrats on your first step away from nonsense. Language is based on induction which comes from order and uniformity. Atheism is based on randomness which is the opposite and contrary to uniformity. Atheism has no foundation and cannot believe in language, induction, order, uniformity, natural laws, reasoning, logic, understanding, ethics, morals, numbers, mathematics, science, the scientific method, etc. So by using any of them you are using the theist worldview and disproving the atheist worldview of randomness. Uniformity always has a uniformer, laws always have a law giver, order always has an orderer throughout observable history. Also you think existence came from nothingness, that’s your exact belief, you think nothing created something, and somehow you think that is meaningful, your problem is with your own belief. I don’t believe what you believe. I believe to create space, time, and matter, you must be beyond space, time, and matter. You must be a spaceless, timeless, matterless personal being. Am I sure? Yes, because it makes logical sense the creation of things can’t come from the same creation, it must come from a creator. More than that fact though, GOD has revealed Himself to me because I prayed to Him, humbled myself and asked Him. So I know He is true because of His personal revelation to me, and He has confirmed this. I just shared my method with you, now you can follow the process and know GOD if you are actually sincere. Here is the process again in case you are confused.. admit there is a creator, admit you are not GOD, admit GOD is all powerful and you submit to Him not Him to you, humble yourself before Him and say you know He is real and want to know Him. Seek Him out and pray to Him. 2 Chronicles 7:14 explains that. Then He will reveal Himself to you and He will confirm that revelation in ways you can understand. But it’s obvious by your comment, pride, idolatry, and humility are a problem for you. You want to be your own god, you want to reject the creator. That’s your choice. If you are truly honest and want to know, I told you exactly how to know. Notice everything I said was in the theist worldview of uniformity. Now I will answer you from the atheist worldview of randomness.. “Dhhcyggs” - that answers all your questions, proves GOD, and refutes everything you will ever say in the atheist worldview of randomness.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@bhaveaniceday5392 Son, if you want that to be read I'll have to suggest you edit it and make it into separate paragraphs. That gigantic block of words is not something I'm about to even try to read. Go edit it and make it legible so everyone else can easily read it. As of now it's terrible and I'm not about to waste my time with this. 🤷🏼Ok, thanks.

@bhaveaniceday5392

Жыл бұрын

@@jrskp3677 I’m not your son, you are not my father, repent of your lie. I don’t listen to you, I listen to GOD. Everything I said is perfectly understandable. It’s all one point which is why it’s one paragraph, that’s how paragraphs work. The second short paragraph addresses your question from your worldview. Both are legible and perfectly understandable. If you don’t want to learn and read, that’s your choice. You asked a question, I answered it, now you are refusing to read the answer. That’s just your excuse so you don’t have to engage, again, that’s your choice. Go learn how to read with patience so you don’t leave nonsensical comments saying you aren’t going to read. As of now, your attitude is terrible and I’m not going to continue to feed pearls to swine. Your pride is running over, come back when you have humbled yourself and you actually want answers to your questions. Ok thanks.

Read for love of god by piers anthony

I feel sorry for him, he’s been banging on about that book for his entire career. He simply can’t back down. Poor fool.

“This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own.” Sam Harris

@BigPapiCapone

Жыл бұрын

Stay in your lane kid. That’s not even the topic of discussion here.

@timg7627

Жыл бұрын

@@BigPapiCapone lol dude. You lack a basic understanding of what’s being discussed here

@user-fv4yk2hh6t

Жыл бұрын

Time will tell.

@seankennedy4284

Жыл бұрын

Yea, Sam Harris. That paragon of reason. Except ... "Perfectly decent and sane people" wouldn't need justification for an ostensibly irrational, indeed, pathological belief. Because, such wouldn't be on their radar in the first place. So either those billions aren't "perfectly decent and sane," as Harris supposes. Or Harris is in error that religion is a "true horror." Either way, Harris' argument is unsound.

@timg7627

Жыл бұрын

@@seankennedy4284 congratulations you just defined circular logic. He’s merely trying to be polite by saying sane and rational. Everyone knows what they really are

Nope

I have been given the truth this genesis 1;2 it was us that made the earth in the beginning under the direction and authority of god our father then now father threw Christ Jesus

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

Where are you getting this information from? Please share your specific sources by listing the authors, book titles and specific page numbers, paragraphs and sentences. Thanks.

@jeffmillerjr6086

Жыл бұрын

The Holy Spirit reminded me

@jeffmillerjr6086

Жыл бұрын

Hidden Genesis Very beginning because It's the very end 1 We were all on the first level of Heaven. 2 The place was dark and two angels would carry us one on our right and one on our left side. 3 We were in soul form and were Holy at this time. 4 When the angels carried us they had strict orders for specific places to set us and specific times to take us from place to place. 5 We were frustrated that we could only spend so much time in that place in heaven because some of the pleasures we wanted to just stay there and enjoy with all the time we desired. 6 we started to telecommunicate and we all agreed. we want "Freedom of Choice". 7 with one voice we came to our Father GOD with our one voice and asked HIM. Father? We want freedom of choice. 8But God gave us this soft gentle reply, He said, "I don't think you want that'". 9But our one voice interrupted our Father and said "NO THATS WHAT WE WANT! (it felt rude to me) I panicked and fear came over me. 10 He said "ok" and moved forward with our request. 11 He said "Here,Make the place your all going to take this test in, to see who really loves me". 12 HE handed us the creator powers by saying, “make the world you are going to take this test in". I panicked and even more fear came over me, all of us panicked. I thought because we are not creators. But we went forth and created this world. It was exactly like how you read the partial verse 2 of chapter 1 of genesis in the holy word of GOD. (KJVGen1;2Andtheearthwaswithoutform,andVoid;anddarknesswasuponthefaceofthedeep.) 13 When we were finished with our work God being yet merciful had us experience this world that we made but was chaotic. We immediately screamed out save us father! God did and He said here I will make this world you all will take this test in". It's exactly how its spoken of in genesis the Holy word of GOD 14 After He was finished He had set us on a beach to experience this before the creation of all of us And we all agreed it was very good.15 Now when the creation of us came, seemed like it happened immediately and god showed this bar that represented earth's beginning and end and god mentioned to us if this completes and you haven’t chosen exactly what you want and the earth time is completed you'll be poured into hell those that have not Chose..16 And i thought to myself panic right away and was in shock because i knew this was a test to see who really loves Him. 17 But i looked in horror because the souls were choosing everything but righteousness some chose to be very beautiful others rich powerful and own this much land, others very poor limbless die at birth and god shot the soul down to earth like lightning and manifested them here.18 All the sudden God comes to me and asked me “Do you know what you want?” And I answered and said No Lord I do not know as i was still in disarray about what to choose to show I love GOD, and he went back manifesting all the souls into the earth as they chose. 19 God came up to me a second time, and asked me, do you know what you want yet? I said no Lord, but this time I explained my hold up, and i said i see many choosing the wrong things I don't want to choose the wrong things, this is a test to see who really loves you and everyone seems to be choosing things that will blind them either way they go. 20 So God went back to creating them as they chose all what you all wanted individually. 21 The download, the time strictly given for this manifestation of us came over half way and all heaven heard Jesus and awed, He said “I want to die for the sins of the world”. 22 Our Father then Manifested Jesus for us here in the flesh to be a righteous sacrifice to bring us back as a holy people to the Father. 23 God came to me a 3rd time but then I explained to the father I do not want to take attention away from your son let me know him and let me not forget you. 24 He said you have to choose everything exactly because everything is specific to every little thing. 25 Well god strictly told me “you have to choose everything he decided to do me a favor. He said to me, “here ill shoot you down to earth and you go to and fro onto the earth and see if there be any person you want to be. 26 So i did. In my soul form i went searching to and fro on the earth. I finally came to this place where i seen the word of god on this guys counter top. I said to god “I want to be this man,”. But i had to choose every detail. Like they brought me into the second apartment I lived in, the area where my spirit seen the bible on the countertop and God said he was going to make me rich and I said I would give my money away and then he said He would make me famous and I said I would point to christ. And Jesus then we looked out the window onto colorado spring landscape and He said I would be king of this land. Which goes exactly what GOD told me when He showed me the family he was going to give me along with everything I seen around which was colorado springs. Like all of us had to choose everything in detail. I did and HE manifested me here.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffmillerjr6086 Why would information we need to know be hidden? That doesn't make sense 😕 considering how we allegedly will pay for not knowing 🤷🏼 That's the kind of malarkey that sounds like a crock of shit. How adults believe this wacky stuff and write like it's really the truth is so strange.

@jrskp3677

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffmillerjr6086 What you posted looks more like a copy/paste routine from some apologetics handbook than actual credible information.🤭 Is that why it's so long? 🤨 I bet it is.

The problem with your first statement as far as a length of time is that the Hebrew word used to indicate a day did not mean an eon or any other type of long time. But rather a day, a 24 hour literal day. You really do need to study the Hebrew It was originally written

This is false teaching. It destroys the gospel. If death was around for millions of years before Adam then Adams sin is not how one man brought death and one man brought salvation. There is no reason to believe some person somewhere over the God of creation.

@Papa-dopoulos

Жыл бұрын

I’m not really decided on either camp yet, but are you sure that the mention of death wasn’t spiritual in nature? Aka, the second death?

@beefsupreme4671

Жыл бұрын

@@Papa-dopoulos if you read the Bible it’s very clear. Death entered the world by Adams sin. The Bible is also very clear that the creation was six literal 24 hour days.

@beefsupreme4671

Жыл бұрын

Give me a second and I will copy and paste the passage.

@Papa-dopoulos

Жыл бұрын

@@beefsupreme4671 I’m not questioning whether or not death entered the world via Adam’s sin. That in itself is incontrovertible. I’m analyzing the nature of that death. Physical or spiritual.

@beefsupreme4671

Жыл бұрын

@@Papa-dopoulos for some reasons my reply’s are not not showing. Genesis 3:19 is part of where God is cursing Adam for his sin, in it he says the line that you will return to the Earth. “For dust you are, and to dust you will return” This is clearly physical death.

CHRISTIANS:- if it's lovey dovey and good always it's verbatim If it's not lovey dovey and good it's metaphors, translation issue,allegory or contextual

How about believing the Bible, Dr. Craig? And interpret science from there. NOT the other way around! You're not God; you don't get to change his word based on your understanding of Nature!

Haha actually the botched theory seems to be more accurate

So Mr.(Absolutely NOT Doctor) Craig how much time were the universe completely empty before the blob of water wherein the flat earth were conjured into existence out of nothing? And what form does water take when the temperature is -455 Deg. F? And where does the element Oxygen that's so essential for there to be something called water come from? hint, exploding massive stars!

What a waste of time and life

@Linkin-park555

Жыл бұрын

Para quem?

Personally I think the gap theory makes sense. I don't think that explains the fossils and what not, so the main part he's laughing at is the part I don't agree with. However, I do think the Satanic rebellion makes sense. We do know that there was a Satanic rebellion "at some point", and that one third of the angels fell during that. It seems logical that, since the Fall of Adam and Eve had natural consequences on the world, that there would be natural consequences on the world during the Satanic rebellion as well. Additionally, we know Satan fell before Adam and Eve, and if you try and piece things together it seems Satan fell before the creation of the world. Also, the wording in Gen 1:2 implies that the world "became" without form and void, which in Hebrew implies a barren wasteland that has had its original purpose destroyed. All that together makes it seem plausible that the Satan fall caused destruction on the planet, and that the recreative act brought about the world we know.