Finally, glad to see someone talking about this

@prancerjohnponce6889

3 жыл бұрын

this is why i balance my attack. i saw some player got 250% crit damage and only have 1700 attack. (xiao tartaglia characters).i have 2400 attack. because of my feather have 18% attack.and people saying my feather is bad.

Guys, I cannot emphasise this enough: IT DEPENDS. stacking ANY stat too much ends up giving diminishing returns. You may have some artifacts in which attack % stats will outdamage higher crit damage stats. It all depends on your combination of stats and substats. My tip is to try different ones until you find the one that deals the highest and/or most consistent damage. Edit: also, your base attack highly depends on what weapon you are using. Attack% isn't amazing on low attack weapons

@obz7532

3 жыл бұрын

💯💯

@lg7855

3 жыл бұрын

true, my eula has 1.6k attack yet she shits out damage like crazy with 81% cr and 180% cd. at first i was convinced im doing something wrong because every single showcase i’d see on her had 2.6k+ attack

@kokopiumz

3 жыл бұрын

@@lg7855 let me guess, serpent spine? The passive helps increase your dmg

@flavioluis8218

3 жыл бұрын

@@lg7855 my Eula hit 233000 damage yesterday with a talent lvl 8 burst and prototype archaic

@lg7855

3 жыл бұрын

@@kokopiumz yeah! that’s why i use it mostly + that sweet crit rate substat

ATK isn't bad, its good. Its just there's so many ways to buff ATK comparing to Crits. Mostly why it scales better if you have more Crits and scaled with more ATK than having a lot of ATK scaled with more ATK. Though this applies to late game which everyone is probably already in. Short answer tbh. For the video's question, for Eula with her Broken Pines claymore, ATK is maybe better since its base atk is massive and scales very heavily with ATK% So i can see how it can be better than Crit DMG. Though for most other swords like WGS, it'll probably better to have Crit DMG as the hat piece. I have done no testing, dont take my word for it.

@bruhmomentum3797

3 жыл бұрын

Too much of a good thing is a bad thing i guess? Currently in the game there a lot of things that buff atk like weapon substats, bennet and noblesse set while crit stats are much harder to obtain. Same goes for elem/phys dmg bonus Maybe its safer to just stick to 1:2 ratio instead of piling on crit

@guesswho9541

3 жыл бұрын

In conclusion, if ur basic atck (from character lvl and weapon) is really high, its better to stack atck% cuz the multiplier would be significant, in this video it was song of broken pines with around 745 base atck, but compare to other claymore like serpent or blackcliff i guess its better to have crit damage % since their basic attck from weapon lvl is significantly lower than song of broken pines..cmiiw

@velaroid

3 жыл бұрын

@@guesswho9541 Cmiiw lah

@guesswho9541

3 жыл бұрын

@@velaroid it stands for "correct me if im wrong"

@velaroid

3 жыл бұрын

@@guesswho9541 Oh I was thinking the other "cmiiw", I thought you're from the same country as me lol

Law of diminishing returns. Simply balance it out, don’t put too much in 1 stat. Crit dmg and atk both rely in each other.

There’s a golden ratio to atk% , crit dmg, and crit rate which is about 200%, 140%, 70% respectively. Tenten makes a pretty good vid about it and when you reach those numbers you’re pretty much good to go.

@velaroid

3 жыл бұрын

Bro can you share the link which tenten video that you mentioned?

@kujaa1831

3 жыл бұрын

To be more specific, your total ATK should be 212% of your base attack. Ik some youtuber found the golden ratio using calculus optimization so it should be accurate if you want to maximize damage.

@Lunari.Future

17 сағат бұрын

@@kujaa1831 base ATK with or without weapon?

atk%? crit stat? I thought there's only flat attack, flat hp, and flat def on this game.

@caramelcandyz

3 жыл бұрын

there is : def def% hp hp% atk atk% crit % (crit rate) crit dmg energy recharge% elemental mastery ameno/geo/cryo/pyro/hydro/electro/(probably dendro in the future) dmg bonus % i think thats it- you usually want crit rate/crit dmg on your main dps, and sometimes atk%. if you have a catalyst/elemental dps, you want all of those plus elemental mastery, and elemental dmg bonus. you usually don't want any of the hp/def stats unless you're running a diona (needs hp) or noelle (def). if your building a support, you usually want elemental dmg bonuses and energy recharge. if your building a reaction team, you want elemental dmg bonus, elemental mastery, energy recharge. you should also build atleast a little bit of crit rate/dmg on your supports.

@Ariuuus

3 жыл бұрын

@@caramelcandyz I'm pretty sure this guy is joking around.

@caramelcandyz

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ariuuus OH LMAO IM SO DONE.

@Logixal4311

2 жыл бұрын

@@caramelcandyz All that knowledge, but at what cost? 😅

@roach768

2 жыл бұрын

@@caramelcandyz dw i appreciate your knowledge

I think it's EXTREMELY unfair to compare 14% CD with 300+ ATK. The general consensus is that the average CD roll provides more value than the average ATK roll given you have enough CR. Your case is slightly biased because you have (1) a high base attack so the value of ATK% grows and (2) Your ATK% rolls were maxed and your CD rolls were not. In your case, I agree. But in general, I don't. Great showcase! :D

@ynz1923

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I think this is also usually why usually the best cards in abyss u can get are 2 crits and the 40% attack one (for big damage numbers, actual dps wise it might change). Usually some people would think that u want 3 crits but for most characters that 40% attack one gives higher damage just bc its a fat 40% attack. Can think of it like maximizing area since damage formula can be boiled down to attack * crit (there are a lot more components than this like def down, res shred, elemental damage, skill multiplier, obviously but just making it simple) so to maximize ud usually want the 2 stats to be equal (like how 20x20 > 10x30) but if you stack the crap outta one stat like attack and have like (20+15)x20 vs 20x(20+40) the stacked one will obviously be way larger. Also most people build a ton of crit since its not easy to get crit from outside sources. We got bennett, thrilling tales and etc to boost attack but nothing in the game boosts crit damage so its usually the most lacking stat besides res shred and def down i think? so adding more to that stat gets us the most "bang for our buck" i guess. (i know thats not how the actual calculation looks like and that attack % builds off the base damage but i think it still gives the general gist of the idea of what OP was saying, giving char crap load more attack vs just 14 more crit damage is probably unfair and to test to see which one gives higher peak damage can just multiply your attack and crit% together generally)

@whoizrez

3 жыл бұрын

@@ynz1923 I would actually disagree to that. The main situation when crit damage is valuable is when the atk is high. A good example of this is the deathmatch spear which gives a lot of crit rate and a lot of people build primarily crit damage when they have it. On my xiao I have this weapon and even tho he has a good cr/cd ratio, he still doesn’t hit the 30ks or 40ks of whales with primordial jade spear and that’s because of the low base attack of the deathmatch. it makes much more sense that atk% is more valuable in that situation and going hard on cr/cd while sacrificing atk is the main difference why my xiao doesn’t hit as hard

@camronthaxter3491

3 жыл бұрын

@@whoizrez I actually have this same problem i dropped my attack artifacts for more cirt damage artifacts on my xiao and i did slightly less damage.. Compared to guys with lower crit damage and higher attack on their xiao with the jade spear. I sacrificed 20% attack and gained 21% crit damage still did slightly less damage. (I have deathmatch on him too).

@SchizoXHaust

3 жыл бұрын

@@whoizrez I use hu tao with deathmatch, I kno my hu tao doesn't scale with atk% but with hp% but I have low hp% but can still hit hard with 72cr and 226cd can reach up to 60k c0 and r1 deathmatch.

@Edyledyl

3 жыл бұрын

The general consensus is wrong in a lot of cases now due to critdmg being easier to get now then at launch and higher average base Attacks. Maximizing damage across Atk and Crit dmg is roughly speaking, maximizing a product XY. Broadly speaking, for a product XY, it's most efficient to have the two values X and Y to be equal. While it's true most characters early on in the games life made it very easy to get more Atk, there are more and more characters and weapons now where CritDmg gets oversaturated to the point where a 5.8%Atk roll is better than a 7.8crit Dmg roll. It's easier than people think for people to end up with too much critdmg. For example, there are tons of GanYus oversaturating crit dmg even with prototype bows or Amos bow Atk% stats. Prototype Ganyu with 2000 Atk and 225 crit dmg will do less than one with 2100 atk and 212 crit Dmg, yet you still hear people recommending 2000 atk and 220+ crit dmg as a goal.

The reason why he is doing more damage with higher attack is since he has song of broken pines therefore his eula’s base attack is very high therefore attk% is giving more returns than crit damage

you have to have a decent amount of attack b4 starting to stack crit dmg, coz from what i know crit dmg scales off attack. if u have low attack the crit dmg stacking will be very less efficient to a point that after some value it wont matter much. Maybe having a balance of both will be good.

I remember seeing a video way back when where it stated the "golden ratio" for building characters was 120% ATK, 70% CRIT, 140% CRITDMG. Obviously it depends on your artifacts and weapons but generally you build whatever's lacking to get as close to that ratio as possible. Also Valk, did you see Paimon going wild on Twitter with the character drops? I was SHOOK :p

I think it's a good balance in order to have more DPS. For me 55~65% crit rate, 160~200% crit dmg, 1800~2200 atk is good Too much crit dmg isn't that great in term of damage and atk can be buffed by weapons or Bennett. Crit rate is always good except when using cryo res or a support boosting crit rate.

Finally someone brining out the truth . Ppl see these big number in one shot but don’t really realise how many trials it takes and the kind of build needed .

🌸❤️I am to say that it is quite impressive how positively but most importantly, constructively you respond to criticism. It would be a better world were more this way❤️🌸

I don’t know if you can compare 14 CD with 300 ATK right?

@prudenciomangaoangiii403

2 жыл бұрын

33 cd and 311 attack

@prudenciomangaoangiii403

2 жыл бұрын

i meant cr

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are a lot of ways to buff your attack (Bennett,pyro resonance, 4pc Nobless, etc) while there is no way of buffing ur crit dmg, making Atk stacking hit the point of diminishing returns way faster then crit dmg when team synergy is considered.

this is very helpful :0, i had a hard time debating wheter atk or crit dmg was better

@BALTDGuitar

3 жыл бұрын

Its not that simple each one gets diminishing returns there's a golden ratio for optimal damage

@Blokaa

3 жыл бұрын

it's not like having just crits magically gives you massive dmg :D you gonna need some atk :D having shitty amount of atk gives you shitty attack no matter how much cc & cd you have :D

In the end you always need a high crit rate no matter what you're running

@hokachi6401

3 жыл бұрын

Lol yea

@TheLastEgg08

3 жыл бұрын

A 72% crit rate is more than enough honeslty.

@edoardotasso8895

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheLastEgg08 agree

@edoardotasso8895

3 жыл бұрын

@@Slyj yes I always aim for 50

@saudmubarak1542

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLastEgg08 honeslty i think 50 is not good enough

Does the elemental skill of characters scales with their base attack? I tried giving my xingqui the max lvl fav sword and i notice that his elemental skill went from 200-300 to 1k damage no crit.

Thanks. I am glad to see someone curious and clever

What is better? The golden ratio. Eulas sword has very high base att so att% will scale incredibly well. A high att% roll will be better often than a low cdmg roll. Up till a point. And then cdmg% will be a lot better. So: balance is key. If you can choose for 22% att vs 21% cdmg then obviously go for the att% (both 4x same stat roll). If its 30% cdmg vs 18% att, then often cdmg if yoy already have high att% on other parts. If you run er% sands then definitely att%... as long as, well, balance.

Eula and Song of broken pines both have pretty nutty base atk so atk% scales really hard with that set up (up to a certain point)

You want a mix of both. Its generally better to build crit on your character as you can boost your attack with buffs from other characters.

what I always wondered was Crit Dmg over Atk% circlet. With my own testing it's more or less the same (depends) cos I use ATK% circlets with good Crit Dmg Substat but I think a Crit Dmg Circlet with insane ATK% substat and Crit rate is better.

@richardyamato

3 жыл бұрын

Also I use ATK% circlets before because Crit dmg was so non existent drops for me but lately my Xiao got good crit dmg circlet and I finally got lucky last week with Diluc Crit dmg Crimson circlet and finally my c2 Diluc can do great damage now.

IMO, the main reason why ATK got a bad name is because of Bennett. His Q and 4set Noblesse Oblige provide more than 1k ATK, which shoots the stat straight into “too much of a good thing” category. If your team doesn’t have Bennett, a good ATK headpiece with good substat might actually be your best choice.

@kuhieyei3855

2 жыл бұрын

There is a reason why Bennett is so good and its because he gives attack, that shows how valuable attack is, imagine if he is giving crit damages lmao he would be benched all the time.

It depends on the all the stats from what i know, there will be diminishing returns for every stat, so basically you want all your multipliers to be spread 75cr 150+ cd and some atk%(scales vey well if you have a high base atk weapon with something other than atk% as it's secondary stat). And we have noblesse sets and tenacity sets which boost atk%. If you use teams with noblesse and tenacity sets stacking cd will be better, if you want solo dps and big numbers spread among cr cd atk%.

You reading my mind lol XD I was actually wonderig what I needed more, crit dmg or atk

I have good circlet Which gave me 27 crit dmg and The main Stat is atk 46.6 Is it good or should I looking for something else I can Go with 60 cri rate and 180 crit dmg

I was expecting you to place atk% main stat on everything. The time piece, cup piece and circlet! That would be a very fun little experiment! Maybe next time! 😂🤣 No crit rate or dmg! Just raw attack! Haven't seen anyone do that yet!

Yes ive been waiting for this like my attack percentage was doing more damage than my crit damage in my situation idk why tho its weird

I donno, never did the math myself... I think it might also comes down to artifacts' substats tho. Maybe also the characters' base stats as well? Since Atk and Crit Rate/DMG is also different from character to character. Glad you brings up this question tho. Maybe someone who knew the math can answer this.

The real test we need is is elemental damage/physical damage versus crit damage. Eula is a great example where you can build her with a phys dmg+ weapon (snow-tombed) vs crit dmg+ weapon (black cliff).

I have a similar situation with my phys Rosaria. I have Jade spear my only 5 star weapon and phys goblet with 20% attack, and 21% attack on the flower. I’ve tried to switch flower out for like a crit rate/damage flower but lost 200 attack. I notice the damage wasn’t really high or consistent even though I had more CR and CD.

Im got 2,412 att with 60/175% crit stat using serpent spine on eula and TBH its more worth it to use Atk% circlet if you have good ratio of crit stat.with full stack Serpent spine passive im hitting 10k-12k auto attack without any buff and resonance and 180k ult dmg without superconduct.even i use atk% circlet on diluc and get 72k melt dmg from auto attack last hit on cryo slime

I've actually tested this with Black Sword on Keqing, atk% circlet made me lose 40% crit damage, while crit damage circlet made me lose 350 attack. I deal a lot more damage with 2300 atk and 190% crit damage than with 1950 attack and 230% crit damage

@abdulf7437

3 жыл бұрын

100 atk = crit dmg 10%

@abdulf7437

3 жыл бұрын

@Osei-tutu Hansenmy crit rate is always 60-70 (my childe has 50% crit rate but I run him with HuTao so it’s fine)for me that’s a manageable number to reach, all of my dps characters have 180+ crit damage and 2k+ attk (except my eula which has 160 crit dmg but her attk is really high) Also some characters benefit more from attack than crit damage like ficshl which needs a ton of attack to deal good damage

So are u not going to use xiao as much now since ur using eula a lot now

They are the same. Boosting either by the same percent is ab equal dps increase. The difference is stacking atk has diminishing returns and there are other ways to boost atk. Depends on the character, their element, and the type of sans you wear. Also depends on base atk.

I think because of how high the base attack is on broken pines, it gives atk% more value compared to other weapons. Should try the same test with your WGS, I'd suspect crit damage would edge out in that case because WGS already inflates your atk% by quite a lot whilst being on the lower end of base attack for 5 star weapons

Thanks for the info, know I’m thinking to give Xiao Physical build , so start to farm pale flame, hope this works.

The total change in stats were, 4 rolls attk% + 1 roll flat atk, vs 2 rolls cd% (172-158~14%), you can see why this isn't a fair comparison

This is the reason why they placed so much RNG layers on the artifacts system. Because they know how boring stat-building is. Crit Rate and Crit Damage has the lowest probability in appearing as both Main Stat and Sub Stat, because it is the only way to go for damage. They can remove the layers on the artifacts system and add more stats such as Pierce or Penetration, Crit Defense and Crit Resist.

I don't need to ask myself that anymore, or even test it myself. I use the genshin optimizer . I placed all of my characters , weapons and artifacts in there and the optimizer creates the best builds possible, optimized for damage, shields, ER, EM, whatever I want. The more artifacts we get , the harder it becomes to manually optimize these kinds of things. Imagine when when we'll have 500 +20 artifacts and a new main dps comes out. To find the best 5 artifacts for that character , from all those 500 artifacts, manually, will be next to impossible. The usage of optimizers should soon become the standard.

@wolfwoof2000

3 жыл бұрын

Too bad there are no optimizer in-game this would be so helpful for new players Like automatic equip the best artefacts

@zukiechi

3 жыл бұрын

Can you generalize how to use a Genshin Artifact Optimizer? I've heard of it and used it once but forgot it ever existed since, may you enlighten some facts and recommend some of the best ones, please?

Interesting to know. Maybe for a Character like and Eula that heavily physical hitting enemy work better with Atk%(maybe Childe too).. but for some like HuTao and Ganyu might be different? Would be awesome if you could try it. (Since i dont have Eula. Sadge)

Question: does it matter that my defense is kind of higher than my attack? sorry this has nothing to do with the video ;-;

there is always a point of diminishing return so it depends on every person since no 2 person have the same sets of artifact to apply 1 ratio to another, which is why we consult dmg calculator to optimize artifacts. However, the comparison in the vid is not valid in terms of artifact quality to begin with since you trade 5-6 rolls of atk% (304/1088 is 27.8%) for roughly 2 critdmg rolls + 1.3 critrate roll. For the same atk% given up, you could get about 28% more critdmg and 7% more critrate which yield 79/186 ratio. Ofc in that sense, for you, the atk% set is definitely better since not only it still have good ratio but also better artifact quality. But ultimately, it is still easier to just input all your artifact into optimizer to see the final result.

I have 2.3k attack 66/186 and my hold e on childes last form with the same exact scenario (only zhongli shield) hit for 60k vs your 57k. I suppose if you're still talent level 10 on your E then it could be pretty close to the same because I'm talent level 11 on E. I did test it with a 2.5k attack (difference of 200 attack) 66/160 (difference of 26 crit dmg) but it was definitely not better despite having more attack so it probably depends.

new artifact set released drain 15 energy and bluh bluh... could you make a video for thougts how good or bad its for xiao

Since the value of both ATK% and Crit DMG change based on your stats, A simple equation can be used to figure out which is better in your specific build, and by how much. To figure out which is better, simply take the following ratio: R = (Crit Rate) * (ATK) / (Base Attack) * (1 + Crit Rate * Crit Damage) If R 1, Crit DMG is better than ATK%. I believe the ratio also tells by how much one is better than the other. For example, if I calculate this for one of my own characters and get R = 4, that means that one point of Crit DMG is worth the same thing as four points of ATK%.

Golden ratio of Atk% and Crit Bonus is around 0.56 : 1. Crit Bonus is CritRate x CritDmg/100. For example if you have 100%CritRate and 200%CritDmg, your atk% should be 112%. That ratio is for lvl 90 ei with lv 90 engulfing lightening. If you have weaker wepon, character lvl or charcter with lower base atk but with same artifact flat atk bonus, Atk% ratio would be even lesser

every being big brains with the fancy words like' i think your case is slightly biased and 'CAPITAL LETTERS*

there's alot of ways to increase atk like bennett and thrilling tales like for example my xiao have 219crit dmg but really low attack 1850 but when i use his ult it's 3500 because bennett with sucrose thrilling tales and tenacity and nobles give me a lot of atk but I can't say the same thing about crit dmg there's not much ways to get crit dmg outside artifact

Honestly wish I knew all of these information before I build my mains, everyone I've asked before always told me CD is more important than Atk until I showed my brother my Xiaos build and he told me it was sht lmao My Xiao has 207% Crit Damage and and 77% Crit Rate but only has 1.9k attack and I only hit 20k to 30k in Coop but 40k-50k every plunge with Bennett and Zhongli buff in my world. My brother on the other hand has 3k attack, 178% Crit Damage, and 55% Crit Rate and he's hitting up to 40k-60k max every plunge even without Bennett 😕

@Valkyrja

3 жыл бұрын

Its honestly situational, I made this video to basically show that. You need to test different setups to find which is better for you personally. No one is going to be able to tell you, your characters best stat line up.

nan talking about this facts in youtube!! i did many test just like u did .. attack % always win if u have a very high base attack

Yes i remember that one time im testing high atk but low crit damage and high crit damage but low atk. Both have low damage. Its better go for balance. Atk% has damage that almost equal to crit damage. Just like this one artifact i tested, i have 5% atk and 17% crit damage vs 9% atk and 13% crit damage (roughly numbers) turns out the damage is 99% the same.

Damn, I guess I can't underestimate atk% now, gonna keep that in mind

I think it really depends on crit rate no? Higher crit rate means you get more out of a higher crit damage possibly?

@TheLastEgg08

3 жыл бұрын

He has a 76% crit rate, it's more than enough and would be useless to try and make it higher since you're probably gonna lose numbers on other stats.

@arc6191

3 жыл бұрын

He has more than enough crit rate tho.. simply his build out of almost 3/4 of attack will trigger crit dmg so.... getting higher damage you'll need higher atk% and crit dmg

@TheLastEgg08

3 жыл бұрын

@@arc6191 People say 150 crit damage is low. If Eula was his ONLY DPS I'd agree, but since he has so many dps characters 150 crit damage is great.

@tadicahya6439

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheLastEgg08 what the ideal crit rate? Is 50% good enough?

@TheLastEgg08

3 жыл бұрын

@@tadicahya6439 50 is like the middle, but with characters who gain crit rate from their abilites you can go lower, Rosaria is an example. You can also have a 46% crit rate dps and make up for it with Rosaria's ult or Hutao's E ability when it finishes. The minimum I would say is 40%

It depends atack can be easily managed trough teammate buffs but crit rate)crit damage cannot so if you don't have benny attack if you have him crit damage/crit rate

Depends on the character and team. All stats will see diminishing returns. Crit damage becomes exceptionally valuable in a well built team when you have successfully maximized your multiplicative damage increases. Many of the multipliers can be impacted by buffs from party members' talents, artifacts, and even potentially weapons. As of right now though, I believe there are no crit damage buffs from party buffs. So assuming that everything else is in ideal order (team build, talents, weapons, and artifacts), crit damage will get the most scaling for your main damage dealer in end game builds. If you're not end game, I would recommend Attack% and Crit Rate as more important than Crit Damage. I would argue that consistency of peak damage will improve most players success over achieving higher peak damage inconsistently. I say throw the 1:2 ratio out the window until your are end game and have the artifacts to achieve it (watch out for characters that want a different balance though). Of course, if you're purposefully playing for spike damage, then ignore what I said and stick to what works for your team.

I usually use Crit Rate% over any other stats since your goal is to reach 70% Crit Rate anyway, having 70% Crit Rate is like having 100% more ATK. Imo only, or probably a fact: flat Atk or Atk%? Absolutely, *ATK%* Because the flat ATK you get from the feather and your character level is enough and ATK% can increase that. I only use flat ATK if you're still on low AR (below AR30), so having flat ATK on your early-game artifacts is good. Obviously, you wouldn't want ATK% if you have a very little number for them to scale onto. *If anyone wants to use this, feel free to do so:* My personal stat priorities: *Crit Rate%* (reach 70% Crit Rate and the rest is Crit Dmg) *Crit Damage* the rest is up to your characters ^^/ remember that this is just my personal view of building, you can always experiment since there's no pvp in the game, overall make sure to have fun. Ok, im out

yea it was so weird when my %13 atk percent cryo goblet was better than %16 crit dmg for my ganyu

@Watching_Koi

3 жыл бұрын

Think about this way, crit dmg scales off of atk. If you don't have at least 60% crit rate, you'll do more overall dmg with atk %

Honestly, for me if you are not building an ATK% sands on a character (i.e. Zhongli running HP% sands), then an ATK circlet with really good Crit rolls is pretty viable. You need good base dmg for your crit dmg to be good

i wanted to say something smart about which stats are better for which character but my brain exploded when i was looking at stats of characters looking for examples and i realised that Hu Tao has 106 base atk at lvl90 :DDDDDD at least i found great example, if you have Hu tao, getting atk% for her is just as good as getting flat def x) show her some love and get CR and CD for her x) but for Eula+broken pines which is i believe the highest base atk combination in the game at the moment getting %atk is obviously viable

i think it has to do with the golden ratio thing others have talked about. get crit rate and crit damage close to a 1:2 ratio and raise other stats besides cr and cd (in your case its +300 atk). your current eula had 70+ crit rate and 150+ crit dmg. i personally think your eula is perfect.

I'd like to see IwintoLose gaming opinion on your eula, that would be cool

I think it’s pretty clear: it depends Basically don’t place too much value in crit stats, test out different artifact pieces, and if the higher attack% one performs better in *your specific case* then there’s no harm in using it.

Hey valk u gotta adress the new leaked characters by paimon lmao

I always level up atk% arts because I'm obsessed with these, and I never crit

I noticed this with my childe too! I did more damage with lower crit dmg but high atk %

I just don’t understand what’s the point of physical dmg when there’s ATK. Same thing with Hydro dmg, etc. What’s the difference of ATK and Physical Dmg/Elemental Dmg?

I think part of the reason why cdmg is considered better than atk% is because of bennett, ttds catalyst and 4 noblesse set, basically there's more ways to get atk% than there is for cdmg, just bennett alone makes everyone in the team hit diminishing returns most of the time and most team comps run bennett anyways, and you want to balance your stats to get better results. I often see builds with more atk% get better results compared to cdmg on build optimizers but if you add bennett on the calc the results would probably be different.

i thought there was a golden ratio (200% attack at least, somewhere between 120-140% crit dmg, and 60-70% crit rate) which gives the most consistent DPS. A lot of showcases I've seen don't generally hit this requirement as they stack crit damage, but idk what the math behind it is in detail. I do get however that attack can be buffed in various ways (food, Noblesse, Bennet) and even crit rate is pretty simple to buff by just eating food, but crit damage doesn't really have that.

Yea I tested this out on my Rosaria. It was much different then this test bc my Rosaria had a lot less attack then your Eula. My test was 1900 attack with 2 glad 2 bloodstained vs 1700 attack with 2pc blood and pale. The glad and bloodstained won however I went with the 2pc blood and 2pc pale bc with that set I had 64 cr vs 51 on the other. If I could get more crit rate on the 2 pc glad build I would switch to thay

honestly both builds are amazing, my artifacts kinda suck so i have to use the serpent spine or else she'll have 45% crit rate lol

I agree that atk can be better sometimes but I just want to point out that this is a bit of an unfair comparison. I did the math and your atk% gained is 26.8% and 14 flat atk, meanwhile your crit dmg gained is 13.9% (keep in mind he has a 5 star weapon so he has very high base atk). When looking at that difference you might say "okay so there's a 50% difference", well, not quite. If we look at what the highest and lowest crit dmg rolls are we can see that they are 5.4-7.8% and the highest and lowest atk% rolls are 4.1-5.8. now let's see how many min crit dmg and atk% rolls we would have to have to get the amount shown for each one respectively. 13.9% crit dmg is around 2.5 minimum crit dmg rolls (5.4 + 5.4 + 2.7 = 13.5). Meanwhile 26.8% atk% is around 6.5 minimum atk% rolls (4.1 + 4.1 + 4.1 + 4.1 + 4.1 + 4. 1 + 2.05 = 26.65). now after doing the math we can see that the atk% artifacts were at around a 66% advantage compared to the crit dmg artifacts by default. a more fair comparison would be a 35.1 crit dmg% vs. 26.8% atk (keep in mind that the results may vary depending on the total base atk so no matter what the answer depends on your circumstances, this is why I highly advice to test it out yourself. | quick side note here, I did not comment this with any ill will, I was just bored and wanted to bring this point to the table)

I'm still proud of my Eula artifact with around 40atk% from substats

I'm already aware about this because of my keqing have this problem for a while. my keqing has 200%CD and 1.5k attack but the result is unacceptable for me, and that goes for my other characters like ning klee and childe. before I realise all of this I thought i can deal a good amount of damage with high CRIT build with low on attack but i was wrong and that's hurt my dps, so i try new things like high attack build with low CD and those build give me a positive results and I like it. So in my conclusion high CD build is only matter when your attack is high enough or above 1.8k, because my hu tao has 203%CD when im trying to lower her CD by 15% for 10% CR I will lose a significant amount of damage, because high CD is valuable when attack is high. And that's why in the early game the common build goes like this (attack%/attack%/attack%)

Crit damage is generally better, because it's a much more valuable stat than ATK. There are multiple ways to buff your attack (Bennett, Noblesse, Millenial series weapons, WGS etc...) while the only way to increase your crit damage stat is through Artifacts. Obviously it's all about balancing and avoiding diminishing returns for basically all stats. In your case, throw in a Bennett and the Crit Dmg build will deal more, because at that point the ATK build will have too much ATK.

ATK% out of context is better than crit modifiers. However, if you already have a huge amount of ATK% from other sources, suffers from diminishing returns, also many artifact and talent effect rise ATK%. As simple example, is you have not ATK% modifiers and you add 20%, the damage is amplified by 20%, but if you already have +100% ATK from other sources, that same 20% translates into 10% more damage instead. Eula with her weapon, doesn't have any source of ATK%, so she will benefit far grater than other characters with ATK% in their ascension or Weapon (IE Wolf Gravestone).

I suspect atk slightly better for a weapon for prototype rancor for eg.. Nice to see some yummy 5 digit left click😌

I think rather than asking "IS att% better than Crit Damage%", asking "WHEN is att% better than Crit Damage%" would be more appropriate. What i mean by "when" is, how much att% is actually better (does more damage) than X% of Crit Damage%. For example, which is better, gaining 30% att but losing 20% Crit Damage%, or gaining 20% Crit DMG% but losing 30%5 att. When is X% att better than Y% crit damage. In reality, i think finding out the answer to this question would really help. for example you have a feather with 11.6 % att but no crit dmg substat, and you also have another feather with 7.8% crit DMG but with no att% substat. Knowing "When is X% att better than Y% crit damage" or "how much att% do i need to compensate or exceed X% Crit DMG" will enable us to actually calculate or find out which artifact to use.

@monsefharid3224

2 жыл бұрын

Same

@monsefharid3224

2 жыл бұрын

For exemple 30% atk = ??% crit dmg

the better is the one u have less of stacking anything too much will make it lose its value ik you dont use bennet but basically if u do use bennet who will give u even more attack then maybe crit would be better

All of artifacts I got are all ATK...I don't have much of a choice anyway, considering the drop rate of good Crit DMG and Crit Rate artifacts were next to impossible 😂

Atk% is great when base attack of the Character is high And Xiao and Eula has 2 of the highest base attack in game so atk% on them is really good And Eula with Broken Pines takes even more advantage from atk%

I tested crit damage vs em on Hu Tao by changing blackliff pole and dragon's bane for charged vaporise. My Hu Tao without them has around 140 crit damage, and 107 em. After some testing dragon's bane came out better, even after Sucrose em boost, that was supposed to boost blackcliff more (since there are big diminishing returns on em), dragon's bane still came out on top. So in conclusion, don't go crazy for crit damage, and get balanced stats instead

Don't forget guys, 221% ATK%, 70% Crit Rate, 140% Crit Damage

Atk is very good dmg booster. (Reason for spamming Bennetts) But, it is hard to get. 300 atk vs 20% c.damage = 2k dmg difference. It is hard to get that 300 atk since not all char have a High base atk. Atk% main stats cant give 300 atk to some units, but its easy to have 50%+ C.dmg on crirclet.

LMAO, shit son, this made my eyes water. Great job!

atk vs phys dmg for goblet next maybe?

Xiao and eula has biggest base attack so yeah %att and crit dmg ratio will be 1:1 But overall crit dmg adjust bigger number to other character.

On pure physical builds it should be easy to calculate the average damage over time with: (ATK) * (CR) * (CD - 1). CD you see ingame is -1 already so it's (ATK)*(CR)*(CD). Whoever has the higher value with YOUR artifacts gives more average damage.

One of the only genshin KZreadrs that’s not that annoying

i’ve been wondering about this for awhile too. i have a crit rate circlet where everything rolled into atk%, i wanted to change it to have more crit dmg even tho now it’s around 156% but... yeah i think i’m good 🧍🏻‍♀️

I wouldn't say crit dmg by itself is better but a good amount of crit rate and crit dmg together is almost always better than atk%, in the end you kinda just either have to test like you did or do the math yourself to see which is better. 14% crit dmg is not going to give you as much as 300 atk but something like 30% crit dmg definitely could. Depending on what your stats are already at one could be worth more than the other but there's not a consistent conversion rate between the two

So what exactly is the purpose of crit damage then, when normal damage is much better? 😕😕

Well. Better use atk goblet with crit dmg circlet. 70-185 cdmg c0 eula. In my test, Atk give great dps for cryo dmg and her burst too. Pys dmg is great but got diminish return especially in abyss and with weapon passive. Atk goblet increase in cryo is more beneficial than pys dmg lose when use pys goblet.

Atk% stacks better with 5 star weapons but there is point in when you might stack too much crit dmg it depends on the unit weapon and the rest of the artifacts

you think 2000 Attack with 60/120 Crit better or 1600 Attack with 60/160 Crit ?

Atk% Scales really well or even better than cdmg with Eula because of how High the base attack of eula with song of broken pines, in comparison to other characters it wont be as good. Ganyu scales very well with Atk% aswell, because of how focused your stats are for cdmg(In her ascension and blizzard strayer builds) you need atk% to supplement the cdmg so diminishing returns wont happen.

I honestly believe that all claymore characters have a chance to do massive amount of attack damage vs any other weapon user's base attack. I may be wrong but makes sense in my opinion.

Well...if you got a high base atack character like xiao diluc eula etc atk% is better than crit dmg if you got a lot (30-40%) and over 150 crit dmg That s why i got 2.4k atk and 165 crit dmg on xiao

It's better whole stacks Atk% and Crit damage for doing average highest damage than final highest damage. Crit rate basically activate big number of damages into Crit Damage