Beautiful may this idea long live

Worth a 'go' for sure. Concern that finding leaks underground could undo the project. Better above ground tanks.

The principle of this technology is about the same as that of the hydraulic air compressor. We know a lot about the HAC. A comment below says that this project has been on hold for five months. I wonder whether that is because they finally tried the idea and found a very hard problem with it. Since the water and the air are in direct contact in the storage tanks, as the pressure increases the water absorbs more and more of the air. When they use the compressed air that is still free inside the tanks to push the water through the turbine to produce power, the pressure in the water drops as it passes through the turbine. That pressure drop causes the dissolved air in the water to escape while the flow is still in the turbine. The turbine can't handle this two-phase flow, which becomes increasingly more air and less water per unit volume as it passes through. It is like the problem, only in reverse, that happens when a pump tries to pump a mixture of air or some other gas and water or some other liquid. It can't do it well enough, or at all. The technical explanation is set forth in many places including the internet, for instance, "pumping two-phase flow." In other words, Augwind did not know about, and did not anticipate, the Champagne Effect. This effect has been studied thoroughly. It became obvious more than forty years ago when water-compensated CAES became a subject of great interest. Because of this effect, it is very difficult to safely operate a water-compensated CAES cavern. (Hydrostor, beware.) And because of it, I do not see how Augwind can generate much power with this arrangement. They can store energy with it at high efficiency, but they won't get most of it back without a lot more research, probably some patentable discoveries, and a much longer time to market. I don't think they are nearly ready to sell their system. If this is the reason for putting the project on hold, it will be far from the first time that the problem of dissolved air in the water has put a stop to the dream.

@discoguru8363

Жыл бұрын

Interesting take.

@bonsaimoldova

Жыл бұрын

Then they should have a piston that separate air from the water? You pump water, the piston moves and push the air into tanks. In the reverse mood - the air push the piston that will push the water into turbine.

@johnborton4522

Жыл бұрын

While there could be many reasons for a 'project on hold' status (including complete implosion of the project), I think you may be misunderstanding their system. You say: //"Since the water and the air are in direct contact in the storage tanks, ..."// If you look at their patents (and video including this one), you'll see that they don't store the air in contact with the pressurized water. The air is stored separately in 'air only' storage tanks (1:20) Essentially they are using the water only as a 'hydraulic piston' and the contact only happens for a short period during a 'compression stroke' (0:55) Then, that 'piston' (they call it a "compression tank"), now near full of water, is returned to atmospheric and used as the supply tank for the compression stroke on an adjacent tank/piston. The output of compressed air is stored separately. The entire process is reversed for energy retrieval. Given the short time that the water is under pressure (low dwell time - low aeration), and the fact that the water is returned to atmospheric every stroke (equal or greater time for deaeration), I think you'll find that the "champagne effect" will be trivial. Your comment would however apply directly to Hydrostor and I haven't studied their system to see how they plan to handle it. My take.

@hyphen2612

Жыл бұрын

​@@johnborton4522 I think his points are pretty valid. Although the air and water are stored in separate tanks, the pumped water still dissolved a significant amount of air when pressurized, it will quickly even out all the water in the system. Once you start running the turbine with this water, the cavity would erode the turbine pretty quickly. A lot more research is needed to make this system work with the kind of reliability claimed in the video. For example, additives in the water or specially blended fluid to reduce air solvency. Or special gases that have very low solvency in a fluid.

@johnborton4522

Жыл бұрын

@@hyphen2612 //" I think his points are pretty valid."// It's literally not valid to say they are stored together (as he did) when they are not stored together. //"A lot more research is needed to make this system work with the kind of reliability claimed in the video." // I don't disagree. My point of correction of his claim still stands though.

I've been following this idea for quite a few years and really wanted to see some real world testing of this. However, I can't help but being worried about the many valves and pipe joints in the system to be under constant cyclic pressure. It is safer to have it buried underground so when a valve bursts, the jet stream won't poke a big hole in someone, but it also is more difficult to perform maintenance. Unfortunately, currently the most effective way to do hydroelectric energy storage is still pumping water to a very tall place.

@MrEdmundsj

7 ай бұрын

I feel like there would be a way to work with a dam to improve efficiency but not sure how

👏

so the air can't directly push turbine like with wind power blades? Because if it could just be air meets turbine blades, that design could work for hybrid vehicles and electric plants.

This is how deep well works.

@sampleoffers1978

8 ай бұрын

Supposedly geothermal heat is only 50 feet deep in order t get steam power.

So cleaver like the scalability and the fact it doesn't need rare minerals that can be used for ev vehicles

I have an energy company. What is the price per KWH stored?

@youtuberesearch7017

11 ай бұрын

Who cares about stored energy?

@patrick594

11 ай бұрын

​@@youtuberesearch7017You're not very educated on the most complex issues of the electric grid right? The problem isn't generating (clean) electricity, it is generating only as much as it's needed when it's needed. It happens to be that when the most energy is generated, it's when it is the least needed. So saving this electricity so that it can then be used when it IS needed is the difference between keep burning fossil fuels and finally be able to use renewable energy sources.

@youtuberesearch7017

11 ай бұрын

​@@patrick594 Of course i'm not educated because i dont need so big electric generator. Most effective generators are most simplest not complex. But question was different maybe i didnt understood his question about price per Kwh

@wujeson3921

10 ай бұрын

So do I our team are working for renewable energy development and electricity storage. always to see who's technology could be more economic

How much its cost per mega watt

@wujeson3921

10 ай бұрын

same question

@thedubwhisperer2157

5 ай бұрын

The megawatt (MW) is a unit of power - this video is about energy, measured in Joules (J)

What about the efficiency of this system .. I think it will be below 30%

@BS-yy8ur

Жыл бұрын

*Not sure about efficiency, I don't know about exact calculation, but carbon footprint will be near about 1% or may be less in this type of technology. This air battery is simple and better than any other acid creating battery. Polution is a huge problem ahead us. This planet is becoming sick actually. We should bring clean and green energy technology instead of increasing more and more pollution through our other movements.*

@wujeson3921

10 ай бұрын

hydropump could get 80% efficent. how about this process?

@sampleoffers1978

8 ай бұрын

Wind and solar being abundant sources, the efficiency is still helped by no need to drill, process and transport fuel cargo. So that goes into efficiency as supporting auxiliary power source.

Wen house?

how do i can make video like this?

@clongoram

10 ай бұрын

A free program called blender 3d probably.

PRO: il sistema è interrabile, basso impatto ambientale CONTRO: bassa densità energetica, necessita di grandi superfici. Liquid air: PRO: densità energetica superiore CONTRO: alto impatto ambientale(credo per questioni di sicurezza non interrabile). VOLANI: Costosi, nulla sul mercato per uso abitativo. Per l'uso privato nulla oltre le butterie.. investirei in questa direzione. Dulcis in fundo... Solare-eolico> hho> Co2> metano (qui ci divertiamo con le effic enze) Quest'ultima soluzione dovrebbe essere fortemente incentivata poiche preleviamo dall' atmosdera la mostruosa Co2!

Damn what is the world coming to. When People come up with very complex mechanisms to make a simple turbine spin

@sampleoffers1978

8 ай бұрын

Solar can maybe power condensed air collection, then I'd think the released air could gradually turn wind blades. Then maybe even leave behind cold tank as it's releasing.

This is not new and sadly not effective (and nothing you can fix without breaking physics). If you compress air at let's say 200 bar, you'd only be able to store 0.4kWh per m³ of pressurized space. Energy Density = (P * V) / (k * (γ - 1)). There is also some losses, with the efficiency being ~70% to compress it, and another loss at generating electricity, in total probably around ~50% regained energy. There are other ways like heating salt etc that are more sensible to store significant amounts.

@sampleoffers1978

8 ай бұрын

what is the efficiency of drilling for oil, frackig for gas...then processing into fuel....then transporting it to be sold

@paulverse4587

8 ай бұрын

​@@sampleoffers1978 Probably extremly high, as you just grab existing energy. But the problems there are with the negative effects on climate, environment and on human health. Anyway, since we were talking about storing electricity, "using existing one laying around" isn't really comparable.

@aljohame

4 ай бұрын

What is the must effective way to store energy without using batteries​@@paulverse4587

Bbbb

I want Wikipedia

@BS-yy8ur

Жыл бұрын

*Why?*

@BS-yy8ur

Жыл бұрын

🤔

@karanpatel8497

Жыл бұрын

@@BS-yy8ur i want to make project on this idea

The Amish already do this

@ultrastoat3298

9 ай бұрын

Yah, but they generate the pressure with their butt holes. And that doesn’t scale.

@sampleoffers1978

8 ай бұрын

I believe it. Some reason.

Fake coz they never reply

@dantronics1682

Жыл бұрын

were you worth replying to?

@tich789

Жыл бұрын

I was working on this project briefly and it isnt fake, but project is on hold currently (5 months ago)

@bawilitsoko6450

Жыл бұрын

@@tich789 any reason why it's on hold?

@wujeson3921

10 ай бұрын

​@@tich789 I am working on redox flow battery. I wondered capital investment ,efficiency and cost per Wh? interesting in share more information together

ONLY WATER AND AIR ??? So what are all those solar panels for: To cook breakfast ???

@miketiong8441

8 ай бұрын

Solar panels are for running water pumps to compress the air for storage during day time. Compressed air is for pushing the water to run the water turbines at night

@Youtube..Enjoyer

6 ай бұрын

No, dinner as well.

Not that revolutionary. The Amish have been doing this for decades.