im totally subscribing to these workshops - ive learnt most of what i know about overlanding from watching andrews videos 🤠

Andrew, when I changed from Lead Acid to LiFeP04, as I was fitting the Victron DC2DC charger I realized the issue of it draining the vehicle battery in the Patrol could be drained as you described in the above video. So, instead of removing the National Luna solenoid, I left it in the engine bay and connected the DC2DC charger to the solenoid, totally isolating the DC2DC charger from the vehicle battery when the ignition is not turned on. To me that was just the easiest way to solve the charger on when it should not be charging the auxiliary battery. It has been working faultlessly like this for nearly two years now. Keep well and keep these tips coming.....

Victron DC to DC chargers are thermally regulated - Meaning if you can assist the cooling effect of the fins on the rear you can increase the amperage charge to the leisure battery quite significantly. (i believe its 30a at 40 degC, so the cooler you get them the more output they generate) A ducted 12v PC fan uses less than 1.5 amps of power but could increase the output of the Victron charger by as much as 7.5a or more. take a look at adding a PC fan to the Relay switch for the charger and see how this could get you far more power to your battery meaning you run the engine less. Enjoy

This was one of the best parts of the workshop, having completed it yesterday. Very good as an intro to doing your own dc circuits.

This is like how I have mine setup and it's the best. If engine is on then relay is triggered and charger starts. As soon as trigger is turned off the chargers turns off. No pausing to check voltage. Just pumps 35A in constant

Awesome.Thanks for sharing and taking us along

Been saying this for years with no clear answer, I've always forced myself to find an original vehicle ignition trigger to connect the DC DC to. We'll done Andrew love your work and professionalism 😎👌

Interesting. I have a slightly different approach - I use an ignition triggered relay to cut / supply power to the Victron. When the engine is off it's power connection to the start batteries is cut. The charger operates in automatic mode without issues and there is zero parasitic draw.

I’ve had the Victron DC-DC sitting on my shelf in the shop for over a year to put in my FWC that is now LiPo. This triggering relay is good to know.

I just watched this then purchased the relay online. Thank you.

Great tip, thankyou

Really good Vid, thank you 👍

We use Renogy dcdc chargers and like most modern dcdc chargers, redarc, ctek, victron etc have a ignition trigger, we just fuse tap the cigarette light fuse, or windscreen wiper motor.

Wouldn't it be easier to do a fuse tap to a circuit that's only on when ignition is on to power the relay?

Nice to know that my cheap dcdc charger is better that those fancy victrons, never had this problem, ATGNI, cheers

sounds like an awsome relay - really inovative engineering

This is basic stuff. Good that you have highlighted it. I can't believe that people have so little understanding of how charging systems function. I use a manual isolators so charging the chassis batteries is combined with total isolation of the house batteries. Simple and effective for me.

@cyclemoto8744

Жыл бұрын

Likewise on my system.

@Malc664

Жыл бұрын

As long as you remember, which I and others wouldn't

@DanGleenarts

Жыл бұрын

@@Malc664 Id assume you don't own shoes with shoelaces.

@theshepard22

Жыл бұрын

Can you use an isolator (cylindrical selenoid) at the same time as a DC-DC charger? Mine has one (selenoid) installed from the time I've owned it, I'm just not 100% sure if it works/ how it works, I've switched out the battery system for lifepo4s instead of a 100a wet cell. I just want them to get charged safely without ruining the alternator.

I noticed this with my simple isolator switch setup. Super frustrating as it would also connect when I had solar on the second battery and drain the start when at camp. As the solar would have high enough voltage to connect.

Seems like a good idea to get to know your vehicle! This could work an extra safety precaution for the DC DC charger/alternator though it seems.

I am amazed about all the crap you are applying.

My redarc manager 30 switches off moments after the alternator stops, and it's set to auto detect. Unsure why others don't behave this way.

Andrew. Again, two solutions to that. First, in the Orion App you can configure the lock-out voltage incase you don't trust the "engine-running-detection". Set it to 13.5V or 13.4V and it shuts off immediately. Second, if you charge the starter battery from external, put ignition signal onto the H terminal of the remote port. I reckon the DC/DCs have common GND with the car electrics. And if you cannot find an ignition signal in the back of the Troopy, I'm pretty sure aux power ports (cigarette lighter?) are switched with running engine and not permanently live. No 126 bucks relay required. NOT, AT, ALL. Up to this video I really was a huge fan of the stuff you and Heiner did. But now I'm a bit disappointed. This is NOT a smart solution, I'm used to other things from you. (no offense!)

@marcusrwalker

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I have the same Oron and its setup right, always instantly turns off as soon as the engine is off. Also you can set a start delay so when engine is turned on, it waits a bit for the starter battery to charge back up and then starts charging house batteries. Oron does it all, I don't think these guys know how to use it.

@Christian76S

Жыл бұрын

@@marcusrwalker I reckon the main issue is external charging of the starter battery as Andrew said. Putting ignition or switched DC onto the H terminal of the remote port does the job in no time.

@pabichpawel

Жыл бұрын

Would that also work with variable voltage alternators? My understanding is that they can deliver low voltage even when the car is running which will stop the charger from charging and will make the whole process of charging less reliable.

@Christian76S

Жыл бұрын

@@pabichpawel It does, there's a preset for that in the Orion config. Though that'll result in massive current increase and heat emission at the Orion.

I Dont belive it 😀 I just started to search about this topic in google and etc. and voilaa- Andrew relised new video… hour ago. Sometimes I am speechles. Thank you

I have this setup (Victron). I have a switch on the positive between the vehicle battery and the leisure battery as well as a fuse. I just turn the switch if I don't want it to drain the battery. I'm sure you can also stop charging from the app also, although the charger is a bit annoying because it only turns on when it detects increased voltage from the vehicle battery, so you have to wait for it to boot up. Your set up is more ideal but trickle charging isn't something I do very often.

This was very insightfull and I learned something new today. Any ideas at which outlets this relay will be available in South Africa? I love your content

Loving these workshop videos….Thank you. I have my DCDC charger in the camper trailer, will i need to run a seperate single cable from the Battery/Trigger sensor in the vehicle through to my camper trailer? Or, is there another way around this via the Anderson plug that is already in place for the DCDC charger at the tow ball? Oh, and the ignition wire on the DC DC charger, does this connect to the trigger sensor? Cheers Tony

Hi Andrew, have you considered using the inertia sense module from Intervolt? Great video, cheers

I just have on/off switch wired in, it works well.

Interesting. I haven't had any issues with my Dc to dc charger running down my starting battery.

Thanks Andrew. Problem solved.

Very interesting that they set the voltage as low as 12.5v (without the relay). If the second battery is fairly discharged, the starter battery will only be getting charged at around the mid to high(ish) 12v region, which won't sufficiently charge the starter battery and could have potential for not enough power to start the vehicle. I've found with mine (high output alternator, 75 series) that when I come to idle the starter battery voltage drops down to easily 12.5v in which the DCDC chargers engine shutdown detection kicks in and disconnects the DCDC charger. A bit annoying but on long runs it's okay. I might purchase this relay! Good explanation 👍

I have the same disc charger in my caravan and could only get around 10amps max because of voltage drop over the 6bns cable so I installed a VSR in the LC200 and disconnected the chargers engine on detection system and now get up to 30amps.

Nice.

Hi Andrew, I'm about to embark on a unimog motorhome build and your videos have helped a lot thanks. I have one question that I can't seem to get an answer to. Why in today's day and age do we need to run any 12v/24 systems? Why don't we see just 220V systems running via our 12v/220v inverter? Why have 12v fridges that are 3 x the price? Are we waiting for industry to catch on e.g. Arb to make 220V compressors as an example?

I highly suggest Ctek, 250 and Smartpass. They seemed to be overlooked these days but are more sophisticated than people realize. They take care of many problems other dc to DC charger systems have.

@BeeBeorn

Жыл бұрын

I have that ( im swedish) but the 2 year D250SE i have limits charge to 20A when you put it in lithium mode. Smartpass never engage. Sure, saving generator, but you get lithium for faster charging. Whith AGM/lead acid it works perfect.

@cyclemoto8744

Жыл бұрын

I use to be a fan of Ctek over 15 years ago but in my opinion their technology isn't as good as Victron now days. Cheers

@elcoyote9410

Жыл бұрын

@@BeeBeorn I use AGM batteries. I think it goes to 40 amps. I have heard that these units don't do so well with lithium

Good point. My enerdrive dcdc already has that accessory wire. 👍

@mattwalker6305

Жыл бұрын

I have my Enerdrive 40+ connected without the ignition wire but will soon be fitting it or adjust disconnect voltage up to 12.7 or 12.8 volts so disconnects the dcdc much sooner. I have to gares on my property about 2 minutes. I turn off engine to open and close gate. If my Li battery is low and Dcdc is pulling my setting of 30amps while doing the gates. On 4th starting engine it is possible the 30amps draw by dcdc and lowered amps in cranking battery that the starter motor will not have enough amps to crank over engine. Solution is to open bonnet and turn off the 70amp breaker switch on dcdc supply cable from the crank battery. Then engine's crank battery will usually have enough amps to spin the starter motor. Reckon will buy the relay auto wizard recommended 👌

@chuckberry7692

Жыл бұрын

@@mattwalker6305 just wire the ignition then you will be sweet👍

@mattwalker6305

Жыл бұрын

@chuckberry7692 just have to find the cable as been over 3.5years since fitted current 12volt setup

Seems to me that from a technical viewpoint, the DC-DC charger should be able to detect what that relay is detecting. Can't quite find the exact method of 'engine detection' that the victron chargers use, but from the documentation, it seems they are implying that it is not only volt based. That said, this problem mainly applies to engines with smart alternators I imagine. On my TD5 defender the charger always stops as soon as I turn the engine off. Victron Full Range Automotive TS-800C (50A) charger.

I guess this will fix the issue that if your lithium battery drops below 12.4v ie left fridge on without charging, that the dcdc won’t switch on as it assumes the start battery has more voltage so it starts to drain it as well. I wondered how to fix that. Now I know. Thanks.

I agree with you completely about the BCDC not turning off immediately. I resolved this issue in my Aus Troopy about 5 years ago by putting a 50 amp relay in line with main battery feed to the BCDC and connected it to the starter switch so when the motor is running so is the charging from the alternator to the BCDC. I have the same for my 76 series in NZ. No issues and no residual current drain and very cheap way to save money. It also makes no difference which battery is being charged with an ac mains charger.

@ThePyleDriver

Жыл бұрын

As I just noted - I did the same via the dual battery solenoid I already had wired under the hood. I treat the DCDC like my other high draw accessories (winch, compressor, etc) and it is totally cut from power along with them when the engine is off. )Works great!

@malcolmL995

Жыл бұрын

@@ThePyleDriver yep, same difference.

It's a 70 series am I missing something? Toyota provide a switched output for ignition on in the accessories fuse box in the engine bay. I use this to turn my Intervolt DCDC on.

Same thing happens when your alternator isn’t large enough for the dc-dc charger size. I found out when I had a 20amp dc-dc charger in back of car and 40amp dc-dc charger in caravan. Alternator (80amp) couldn’t supply enough and engine cut out on highway and had to jump start. Battery lost a cell in that and had to put a new start battery in. Make sure alternator is large enough or put two in.

Since 1998, I've used a Bussmann Circuit Breaker BP-CBC-30HB-R to charge two additional regular automotive batteries strictly for powering up the winch, gadgets, and lights. Not once did it ever drain my main battery. The Winch connector has an Anderson connector which is also used to jump-start any other vehicles and my main battery. With that being said. This old method should also work with the DC-to-DC configuration which will prevent/protect the main battery from being drained. Just saying Bussmann Circuit Breaker BP-CBC-30HB-R NOTE: The Profile Picture is My Beast which has this configuration and more.

With a traditional alternator, you just switched the relay with the ignition warning (alternator) light. Difficult with modern, alternators.

Please correct me if I am wrong and explain why, but when you utilise the trigger wire in the redarc units does that prevent this problem??

I didn't understand how could this solve the 2nd battery stealing from main battery issue until I switched to Victron DCDC charger. A lot of DCDC charger has a built-in voltage sensing relay so that when a voltage exceed a threshold, it's on, and off when it's below a threshold(12.8v). They also come with an ignition trigger, but it's for smart alternator only. Because smart alt would drop the voltage when the primary battery is 80% charged. The issue is the ignition trigger can turn on the charger even when the voltage is low, but the charger will still get turned on when the the voltage is up. Victron charger is different, the switch is very flexible so you can use ignition relay to turn it off.

Maybe I'm wrong, but when an AC charger (which provides limited current) is connected, shouldn't the high current draw of the lithium batteries drop the system voltage below the DCDC cutoff level before the starter battery drains?

2:15 made me laugh. Yea, years ago when I went to lithium in the vehicle I had a similar observation and similar response from “experts” in the industry. I realized that lithium today, is to solar about ten tears ago is like sex, everyone is doing it and everyone thinks their way is the best way.

Is this the same as Voltage Sensitive Relay?

Lithium batteries makes no sense to refer to by Amp-Hours, it really is more useful to describe them in Watt-Hours because this is how we will be using and consuming them. We will never use them for winching or as starter batteries, as that are use-cases in which amp-hours perhaps makes more sense?

I just put another oil pressure sensor in. Got oil pressure, engine = running.

How is your DCDC chargers wired in? Are the they wired to one battery each or are they both wired to both batteries?

that relay device is only necessary if you have connected up the bcdc to a smart alternator. the new redarc devices do not do what you say, and drain the starter battery, if the car does not have a smart alternator. with an old style alternator the blue wire on a redarc isn't connected.

Why can’t you just wire a normal relay to trigger when your car is in the on position?

How many amps do you get out of your 30 amp chargers? I’m getting a max of 27 amps and have a small aluminium plate on the back and not amazing airflow but it seems to be getting crazy hot compared to redarc units

@overlandingwolf

Жыл бұрын

Victron DC to DC chargers are thermally regulated - Meaning if you can assist the cooling effect of the fins on the rear you can increase the amperage charge to the leisure battery quite significantly. (i believe its 30a at 40 degC, so the cooler you get them the more output they generate) A ducted 12v PC fan uses less than 1.5 amps of power but could increase the output of the Victron charger by as much as 7.5a or more. take a look at adding a PC fan to a Relay switch for the charger and see how this could get you far more power to your battery

Can you use an isolator (cylindrical selenoid) at the same time as a DC-DC charger? Mine has one (selenoid) installed from the time I've owned it, I'm just not 100% sure if it works/ how it works, I've switched out the battery system for lifepo4s instead of a 100a wet cell. I just want them to get charged safely without ruining the alternator.

@practicalnottactical

8 күн бұрын

@@theshepard22 yes a standard old fashioned solenoid between the two batteries will disconnect them as soon as the ignition is turned off. Ironic that all the new technology relies on the oldest duel battery setup to function properly.

Andrew, you are using the wrong method for a trigger wire. The trigger wire should only have voltage when the ignition switch is on.

I cry each time I watch one of these videos because nothing is ever available in the US market. :( great video regardless.

@hi9580

Жыл бұрын

You got all the tacoma accessories, none of the hilux ones

@roberttaylor7451

Жыл бұрын

I am in the US and redarc is available here. For your trigger you can put it on a circuit triggered by the ignition and you won’t have any of these issues. I have been using a bcdc redarc for a few years without a single issue. It will take every bit of current from a solar panel before taking current from the alternator. Only uses solar when ignition is off. I never think about or worry about anything being dead

@andyloechler9896

Жыл бұрын

@@roberttaylor7451 the point of video is this little trigger that solves the issue of having to hack apart your vehicles wire harness to get a engine is running alternator is charging state. It really has nothing to do with red arc

@cyclemoto8744

Жыл бұрын

That's suprising. How things change, "back in the day" it was so difficult to get products in Australia whereas now there are many products which are either accessible or cost less than in the US or Euro markets. Nevertheless we're still at the end of the world so to speak. Cheers

@Malc664

Жыл бұрын

@@cyclemoto8744 I concur

Solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist. A second alternator setup is about the same price as a Victron DC to DC charger.... and you get the full current of the alternator, plus it also doubles as a backup alternator for the engine battery.

I'm assuming that because these installations are "removable" (albeit painful to do so) /" temporary" you don't need to be an auto electrician to do this?

You need a electrical engineer on hand, just to set up the electrical system properly 🤦‍♂️ I’m glad you two are friends Andrew!

I needed this workshop as the last time i messed with electricity I got electrocuted. I was ok but every time I was romantic with my gf she lit up like a pinball machine.

Very interesting, I manually hook up my Dcdc charger up to my 2 x 140amp lithium's, after driving for awhile, then unhook it when I stop, I trust myself better than electric switching devises

If you're not competent enough to wire into the ignition circuit, then you're not competent enough to wire in a DC/DC charger to start with and you should leave it to the professionals

That extra sensing relay is only needed if you are externally charging the vehicle main battery. Other than that, it’s totally unnecessary

I think wiring a ignition wire is just as easy / difficult as wiring that relay. Don’t see any benefit of the relay. Unless there is something I’m missing.

@stevegoodwin5841

Жыл бұрын

I agree, my Projecta 40 Amp Dc to Dc has connection to ignition on only trigger wire, which it does, then I can't see need in changing the configuration. I do have a manual isolator in the starter battery to deep cycle battery in cabin cable connection too and also the redarc SBI 12 on the cable connection circuit. My Projecta charger has also got solar input and operates daily when parked up from the 200 watt solar panel mounted over cabin. My batteries are always full.

@tonydawnwright346

Жыл бұрын

Where is the best location to connect the ignition wire when the DC-DC charge is positioned in the camper trailer

@billyflatt

Жыл бұрын

@@tonydawnwright346 You can run it on the spare cable of your trailer plug.

When you hang out with Heiner you end up speaking with a more south african accent.

@stuartarnold64

Жыл бұрын

He’s German

@LVNITUPM8

Жыл бұрын

Haha definitely start sounding German not south African

@Alan.livingston

Жыл бұрын

Saffa is a dutch’ish accent so it does sound kinda in the ball park of German.

Who is selling them in WA? GSL says "We don't have anyone in Perth"

@4xoverland

Жыл бұрын

perthpro.com.au/

Yes Andrew, that is why people use Redarc dual battery isolators

@colinboyd7779

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, Redarc used to be Ignition switched but the current Redarc Lithium bcdc 1240D (with a "D") has the same problem. I'm a Redarc fanboy but am totally disappointed and p'd off about this. I called them to confirm and asked why "that's just the way we do it now". What I thought was the Ignition trigger wire, is just for setting one of two cut in/out levels. This is all written in the instructions.

Seems like the Victron Orions are smarter than you give them credit for. I have a small 1.6amp charger on my start battery and my Orion never drains my start battery because the Orion only switches on at the voltage I set and it varies its output to trickle charge the secondary lithium battery. Seems like you’re trying to solve a Redarc problem on a Victron product. Also setting the cut off voltage at 12.4 is totally wrong. You need to run bigger cables.

I'll be experimenting with a controversial solution to this. I'll post back in a few years if it works out.