Three experts listen, wait, talk and defer on camera, isn't it a rare feast to enjoy the art of discussion?

Loved Civilisation. Schama, Beard and Oluaoga... Master class!

@rosemarieleonard5345

5 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Loved it.

overwhelmingly beautiful and intellectually creative adventure of human endeavor civilization bravo Schama, Beard, Olusoga

@rosemarieleonard5345

5 жыл бұрын

So true. Fresh perspectives ~ wonderful.

@jakeschmell

5 жыл бұрын

you guys are weird

all this is great must be nice to think about from such a safe space

Isn’t it all just a bit good...

Great production crew alchemy!

EYE OPENING!!! Great stuff SS

kenneth clark was wonderful for the 1970,s mary beard helps us aaa lot.. david olusaga didnt ring abell with me civilisations was beautiful visual journey expensive to make thanks bbc.

The west is best...

A black man, a feminist and a Jew spend 35 minutes countersignalling against a European's view, of his own culture and civilisation. Imagine that.

@tenchinage3205

Ай бұрын

Did you just say there are no European Jews, European Women or European Black men? I mean, you had black Roman Emporers for a start. Are you having a very senior moment or have you been hitting the crack again Bob-Fred? Which is it?

tracy emin are u having a laugh

I don't get this. ...Kenneth Clark made a spectacular series on Western art - about the the changes in Western culture (from the Dark Ages forward) as seen through its art. (He quotes Ruskin saying that we can't understand a culture just by reading its books of their "deeds" and their books of their "words", but we also must read "the book of their art" to understand the truth of their culture and times. And then Clark says, "If I had to say which was telling the truth about society, a speech by a politician or a bishop or king, or the actual buildings put up in his time, I should believe the buildings and the art.") And, so, just because it's the fiftieth anniversary of the production and broadcast of this great series, ...they decide to make ANOTHER series that's supposed to be an IMPROVEMENT(?), a REPLACEMENT(?), for this series? ....Made by three scholars - NONE of whom are scholars of art (?!?) but rather are general historians; and they are going to go around (as Mary Beard sheepishly admitted) to India and Mexico - places which are mostly outside of their expertise - and comment on their art and architecture? ...WHY...?!? Kenneth Clark's whole career was dedicated to scholarship (and curatorship) of Western ART. He was Keeper of the King's Pictures in the early Thirties, and then curator of the National Gallery. He had already done at least two television programs on art, and written several volumes about ART and the history of Western art. ....So, his "Civilisation: A Personal View by Kenneth Clark" was a series about Western cultural history as seen through its ART. ...Makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Color television was just coming in; and the BBC thought that they would make a program to show the British public the beauty of Western art (by visiting museums and cathedrals, etc., mainly on the European continent, and shoot this stuff in wonderful color film). So, the thought was, why not hire this famous art historian and popular lecturer, Kenneth Clark, to write up and present the series which the viewing public can enjoy on their new color televisons? Simon Schama is famous for his books on the Dutch Republic and the French Revolution. Mary Beard is a classicist. David Olusoga specializes in slavery and colonial soldiers in Britain's wars of the Twentieth century (according to Wikipedia). ....None of them are dedicated art historians (although, I'm sure some of their scholarship overlaps the artistic trends of classical Greece and Rome and early modern Holland and France, and, I guess Africa). ...I don't quite get it. And none of them know much about pre-Columbian Mexico or India or Buddhism, right? What is the purpose of making this series, "Civilisations"? ...Why do these NON-art historians keep pointing back to Kenneth Clark's series? What is the connection? ...Are they attempting to HONOR Kenneth Clark, or APOLOGIZE for him? David Attenborough's decision to hire Kenneth Clark to do HIS series made perfect sense; THIS new series makes no sense at all.

@nimium1955

6 жыл бұрын

Clark was then. This is the Dunning-Krugeresque product of today's Age of Esteemia.

@Elitist20

5 жыл бұрын

Clark's approach was to concentrate on the civilisation he knew best - Western art from the Renaissance onward - to try to understand what civilisation is. A perfectly valid approach, but not the only one. Certainly it was a great achievement, paving the way for other 'personal view' series like Alistair Cooke's 'America', Jacob Bronowski's 'The Ascent of Man', and Robert Hughes' 'The Shock of the New'. The new series is well aware of Clark's influence (and I must say it's annoying that the new series ostentatiously adds the 's' to 'Civilisation' in the opening credits) but also of the fact that we've changed in the last 50 years - our perspectives are much more varied. Timing was important to 'Civilisation''s impact: the fact that colour TV had just come in meant that the program looked dazzling by the standards of the time. It's also worth remembering that Clark didn't always 'stay in his lane' either, delving into literature, philosophy, politics, music and even engineering (Isambard Kingdom Brunel). But Hughes - to whom Clark was a mentor - wrote this in 'Culture of Complaint' about watching 'Civilisation': 'But the narratives are in change, and even if we wanted to, we cannot will ourselves back to a time when such changes had not yet occurred ...There he stood, in his imperturbable tweeds, against a background of vineyards near Urbino. He had just quoted Yeats's lines on Guidobaldo di Montefeltro, who when he made That mirror-school of courtesies Upon Urbino's windy hill, Had sent no runners to and fro That he might learn the shepherds' will. 'Quite so, said Clark; but "What about the people in the fields, or those shepherds whom Mr Yeats rightly supposed that Guidobaldo did not consult on matters of taste and good manners? Could they not have had a civilisation of their own?" The thought came and went: perhaps now, four hours into the thirteen hour series, we will hear some acknowledgment that the lower classes had at least done *something* to create the material wealth on which the court of Urbino - and "civilisation" in general - rose. But no; their achievement was to have created another work of art, the Tuscan landscape, whose function was to fill onlookers like Clark and us with "the impression of timeless order". It is fairly safe to say that nobody, in the foreseeable future, is likely to discuss the relations between labour and culture in such terms on television, or perhaps anywhere else; and I don't see that as much of a loss.'

@camerontaylor7471

5 жыл бұрын

Because our current timeline within a bigger picture sense... has reached a plateau of creativity and innovation for new commercial, industrial, and societal systems to establish and then exploit which is how the matrix has gained global success. so all the system can do now is recycle through all the garbage it has left behind and attempt to Refurbish or salvage the remaining bits in hopes we the people will take a bite from whatever they are conjuring up... And to expand with what I mentioned earlier, the human collective consciousness is currently in a type of intermediate phase, which means the system is having a refurbishment of its hardware(new digital radio wave technologies) while simultaneously writing the code for the “software update” to the new laws and culture lifestyle that we the educated but blind zombie slaves will live by and practice within the matrix system control grid of “civilization”. Which means all I’m attempting to make known is that we now have the opportunity to either prepare ourselves to play in a role in this new type of hell where everything we do is controlled and dictated to the point we won’t even be leaving our houses... or we can start practicing the skills of what it means to be responsible and living a healthy co-creative part within the real world of nature!

@emilner357

4 жыл бұрын

Schama is unquestionably an art expert. Beard and Olusoga are also very knowledgeable about the art relating to their respective fields of expertise. Also, don't forget that in the original series Clark cheerfully went outside his own specialization in order to deal with literary, musical, political and intellectual history. Furthermore, in Civilization Clark frequently refers to older view of art and culture, often saying something to the effect of "...I doubt anyone would think that today". He was perfectly aware of the shifting fashions in interpretation, hence his friendship and engagement with younger artists and critics who held radically different views to his own. In short, Clark's series is not invalidated by the new show. There is no reason that one can't enjoy both, just as one can enjoy the writings of the art critics who preceded Clark and whose views he often challenged.

Voodoo Science.

So, no civilization is better than any other and no culture is better than any other. No painter, composer or novelist should be esteemed over any other. I think I understand.

@Elitist20

5 жыл бұрын

I don't think you do.

@msj5885

Жыл бұрын

@@Elitist20 no, she really, really did.

Three verbally incontinent snowflakes attempt to score feeble pedantic points with benefit of hindsight in the face of a magisterial & monumental series none of them could begin to emulate

would they have thought van gough was worth speaking to at the time he was dirty smelly and rude and hated all 3 here would of ignored him and thought of him with disdain same goes for ancient greece all they can do is imagine really without being there in past reality

What’s Mary Beard doing there? She’s terrible

@Quinefan

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your insight, perhaps *you* should be Professor of Classics at Cambridge instead.

@Montes88r

3 жыл бұрын

@@Quinefan be a professor* first lesson learn what an article is

@Quinefan

3 жыл бұрын

@@Montes88r Do explain.

@pendorran

Ай бұрын

@@Montes88r No article is required

PC crap

@Elitist20

5 жыл бұрын

Gammon alert.