Woman here. A strange thing I've noticed is how many men (online, at least) will try to flirt or start conversations by talking about how lonely they are. I'm not someone who even really prioritizes confidence in a partner, but it is almost like they're trying to get people to talk to them out of pity. I have depression so I get the need to connect with others, but it's a really bad strategy if you want to start dating someone. No one should want to be in a relationship with you BECAUSE you are vulnerable and desperate. You don't need to be ashamed of those feelings, but it's not pulling anyone.

@satunbreeze

3 жыл бұрын

Also might I add that the kind of people you might end up attracting are probably going to be toxic. If your main attractor is that you're lonely, it'll be far easier for someone to isolate and abuse you because there isn't going to be anyone you can fall back on if the relationship turns sour. Its incredibly important to have friends and people in your circle who can help you see if you're being mistreated or if you're mistreating someone else, and in the end if you make it out of this relationship, you might find yourself even deeper in this spiral of bitterness

@goatmonty

3 жыл бұрын

@@satunbreeze Absolutely, that was one ig my concerns when typing the original which I didn't really make explicit. I've seen those relationships be so damaging for everyone involved, whether abusers purposely seek out such individuals or not. It's like sadness and discontent is the glue used to tie two people together...the fear of being alone, even if it was ultimately better than said relationship

@shytendeakatamanoir9740

3 жыл бұрын

@@satunbreeze Or the risk of being yourself an abuser, since you're waiting for too much from your partner. I didn't want to meet everyone while I was in a really bad state for fear of making us both miserable.

@adriarchy

3 жыл бұрын

This is why I had ppl tell me they loved me on the first date or tell me how they're gonna "show me off" to all their haters or tell me what they're looking for in a partner is to not yell at them like their ex. And then I need a break from dating and we all suffer (・_・;)

@theomegajuice8660

3 жыл бұрын

A lot of misogynistic men (especially incels) end up relying heavily on all the emotionally manipulative tactics that they claim women use all the time. Like with many things, a lot of their misogyny is projection

I can pinpoint the exact moment I had my "this behavior is shitty" epiphany that lead to me escaping my highschool incel mentality. I read the definition of "nice guy" on Urban Dictionary and said "... oh shit that's me."

@gauracappelletti3893

3 жыл бұрын

Lol I remember reading Catcher in the Rye at like 17 and realizing how similarly cringe I had been for a couple years

@shytendeakatamanoir9740

3 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah. Realizing you are a Nice Guy is a huge wake up call.

@MiloStIves

3 жыл бұрын

That's gotta be a very oof feeling my dude

@thejesusaurus6573

3 жыл бұрын

@@gauracappelletti3893 man, I don't get that book. Why is it a classic. It's boring and pointless.

@gauracappelletti3893

3 жыл бұрын

@@thejesusaurus6573 it's relatable in that a lot of young men go through that kind of phase, and I guess a bunch never grew out of it and thought the book was really insightful. That's why when people tried to talk to the writer he told them to find a therapist.

I'm a lesbian but I would say that it's easy to tell as a woman when a guy sees you as literally interchangeable with any other woman and basically just a object to have sex with vs they genuinely like you as a person and enjoy your company. Unsurprisingly most women want the latter. 100% people need to value friendship a lot more

@roscoedash6673

3 жыл бұрын

As a guy, I can say that we’ve gotten very good at feigning genuine attraction despite viewing the woman as how you described. Not saying that all guys do that, but I would think it’s something difficult for women to pick up on.

@TheBones1188

3 жыл бұрын

@@roscoedash6673 i cant speak for all guys but the rhetoric that i was around regarding women led me to believe i had to be attracted to a women.That it was almost rude to not be because women were supposed to be inherently sexual. Not only that but women were in all practicality a homogenous group; this led to some issues in high school and middle school

@lotsofuwuenergy3983

3 жыл бұрын

@Ameer Dating sites statistics don't reflect relationships happening here in the real world bud, if that's what led you to your conclusion.

@justanawkwardnerd

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheBones1188 Being worried about "having" to be in future relationships with men is what helped me realized how heteronormativity is so invasive, as a girl on the other end. I was expected to fall for good-looking guys, to want to pursue a relationship with them, and that many girls are vapid and into that kind of thing by the time puberty hit. That never happened, and I didn't quite get the appeal of relationships for myself despite my love of romance books, especially because I was aware of my own inability to form the strong, emotional bonds I loved so much in fiction. I thought I was "wrong" somehow for not being into one-night stands, to want to kiss someone just because I found them aesthetically pleasing, that having a boyfriend is supposed to be something I look forward to despite the fact that I struggled to find the appeal of working another person into my life, especially one I'd "have" to kiss and such. Why do I need to prioritize romantic relationships so much? The relief of learning that I'm just Ace, and that there's more to the value of relationships than how much sex you have, and that it's okay to not feel ready now or ever. Or to not want it at all. I've been working on my internal misogyny and learning how to better humanize other women, but also other men. I haven't been properly close to a dude since... I honestly can't remember, and I have trouble forming close bonds with people as it is. That's something I know I need to work on, but just remembering that no one's a monolith makes it easier to relax. I don't need to vibe with everyone, and I'll find my people, eventually. I just gotta work on being good to them as well as myself to make sure that relationship is good for all involved.

@julius-ceasar

3 жыл бұрын

@anderson those are some beauty standards they’re just a tendency... not everyone thinks like that, and it’s not exclusive to men

I think a lot of dudes are just emotionally unfulfilled when it comes to relationships of all sorts(cause that's how we raised boys for so long) and if you don't know you're missing something, you can't correctly analyze. So they end up misattributing their sadness to the things society tells them is important. AKA sex and girlfriends. Obviously there's also a lot more in that mix, but I bet if these dudes had more loving relationships with their friends and family we'd have less incels.

@galactic85

3 жыл бұрын

Fair point. I think there is also a larger cultural conception that it is more "acceptable" for women to be emotionally open. As a result men seeking that emotional intimacy incorrectly conclude that they can only find it with a romantic partner, which isn't necessarily true.

@valeoncat13

3 жыл бұрын

@@galactic85 For sure! There's so many layers to that give us the end result. What I find most interesting is that the "incel" archetype doesn't seem to exist in a such a large way with other demographics. There's lots of lonely people in the world, but not many are turning that loneliness into a club based around it.

@BlackMita

3 жыл бұрын

This. "There are other kind of relationships besides romantic" but they don't have the means to build to that either, since it's an inabity to form fulfilling connections period, just FEELS the worst RE romance.

@shadquirk607

3 жыл бұрын

Great point. I know personally my own teenage angst was pretty extreme and unattractive and I turned that into a women v me attitude, but that was a reaction against what I didn't understand at the time was the disparity being the sexes when it comes to emotional expression. I couldn't express myself fully to anyone, it made me unattractive, girls only want jocks, fuck bitches and so on and so on.

@sharpieRulestheWorld

3 жыл бұрын

So true

Being a teenage guy myself, I think the most important thing that get me away from being an incel in any sort of way is being friends with girls. I haven't had much luck with romantic relationships (but I'm young, so I'm not too worried), and I think having platonic relationships with girls was a way to remind me to really treat them like people. It sounds obvious, but I think it's tough for some guys my age to form friendships with girls, and that can genuinely let them go down a poor train of thoughts.

@lpphillyfan

3 жыл бұрын

Yee. I agree with this. I wonder if having 3 sisters who I'm close with helped me see women as people and stopped me from becoming an incel even when I was a virgin.

@ryanl6037

3 жыл бұрын

i agree having platonic friendships with girls are very important

@fredrickaappletree3402

2 жыл бұрын

Good attitude 🌸

@namae8

2 жыл бұрын

This is literally how I was in my teens, but I didn’t even really think about the “incel” factor. Like half of my friends were girls. Everyone thought I was gay lmao. I was just willing to be friends with anyone honestly.

@jamesjones9088

2 жыл бұрын

Just be yourself and enjoy life the people who get you will get you and those who don't don't matter. No hate but they don't pay your bills so have confidence in yourself and don't look back man. Life has a funny way of turning tides on the cocky. Confidence isn't cocky BTW

People used to complain to me a lot about being virgins. I think they were aiming for some pity sex. Desperation is not sexy, if you're sad about being single, the best thing is to develop yourself. Get a hobby, join a social group or two, work on your emotional intelligence. People want interesting people. Doing nothing but complain about being single will not help you achieve your goals. Maybe an asexual aromantic person isn't the best person to give romance advice but honestly, I think it's pretty solid advice to anyone who is really sad they aren't dating.

@AngelusDlion

3 жыл бұрын

I wish that I hadn't lost my virginity, actually. Sex isn't always what it's talked up to be. TBH sex has never been the way it's been talked up to with me. I've enjoyed it, ut it's not the be-all end-all of everything like some think it is.

@coolfear360

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. I think the main issue is that men in general place their value as men on their ability to get women. A shift in mentality there could fix a lot of the core issues.

@JadeDRail

3 жыл бұрын

@@AngelusDlion Yeh I've done it a few times and I'm not a fan. but then again, I am asexual so I'm not really a great example.

@EtherBotGames

3 жыл бұрын

ey fellow ace person in the wild?

@mazayashah213

3 жыл бұрын

Lol an ace aro person could give the best relationship advice. Objective viewpoint

So much of who we are is circumstantial. Like if I'd read Ayn Rand at 19 instead of 31, I could easily have become one of those red hats lobbying for lower taxes and fascism today. Young men are the easiest group if people to radicalize, and we need to take better care of them so they grow up to be decent folks.

@digiprez77

3 жыл бұрын

I find it highly doubtful any of those people have read Atlas Shrugged lol... What you are saying is true though. Everyone is susceptible to peer pressure in whatever form it takes. While the internet is a great place to find information, it is also a great place to find support for whatever crazy thing you might believe. I really feel like most people go around in a bubble of their own creation, and the easiest way to keep it from bursting is willful ignorance.

@AM-jx3zf

3 жыл бұрын

Two of my own cents: - social media has given rise to a lot of weak men. Weak, both in body and in mind. And weak minds are like a single blade of tall grass in a storm ripping at the root. There was a movement, and one that is still perhaps there somewhere to proliferate and quicken this change. So it's not something that was unintentional... This has been deliberately planned. - they need support from parents. A strong family and good moral values are what strengthen the root. It is not surprising then, that kids from single parent families often grow up to be socially awkward. Rather than mocking them and pushing them towards someone who makes them feel appreciated (radical groups), it would as you rightly said do well to help them become socially accepted.

@polin1710

3 жыл бұрын

@@AM-jx3zf what would you describe as a strong family with good morals?

@thejesusaurus6573

3 жыл бұрын

@@AM-jx3zf frankly, I think this analysis is a load of hogwash.

@jeffersonclippership2588

3 жыл бұрын

@@thejesusaurus6573 yeah it sounds pretty boomery and it was that kind of mentality that created incels in the first place.

From lurking on incel forums, I feel like another thing that adds to their unhappiness, vitrol, and nihilism is that the community is always tearing each other down. Like xyz trait is ugly/undesirable, this type of appearance is bad, just reducing everyone to the mainstream beauty standards. Like I would be misanthropic too if every day my friends told me my jaw meant no one would ever love me without me manipulating them. If anyone is considering inceldom, you should people watch and see the variety of couples out there. There's plenty of amazing hetero relationships between people of non-traditional heights, weights, attractiveness, economic status, etc. :) I know from experience!

@photophob

3 жыл бұрын

Have you seen contrapoints' video on incels? Very good description of what you just wrote about the "tearig down" aspects of those groups.

@siddharthkrishna7249

3 жыл бұрын

I always feel internet forums were the worst thing created

@joelbedulla4

3 жыл бұрын

@@oogatz1917 that's exactly why I quit NoFap. I believe being addicted to porn is wrong, but masturbating is 100% normal and no man should feel ashamed for doing it every once in a while. Beating yourself up for ReLaPsInG is dumb.

@seanmatthewking

3 жыл бұрын

@@joelbedulla4 lol the whole no fap thing is a cult. I mean, I stopped watching porn and I definitely think that’d be good for many others too. And if you think not masterbating helps you in some way, by all means. I don’t think it will hurt you to withhold necessarily. At the very least, there’s something to be said about not giving in to every impulse, whether that is a bag of chips or jerking off. But most things in moderation aren’t an issue.

@elssosilva8701

3 жыл бұрын

There is not dude. People who are ugly are just ignored by everybory

I feel like if things had gone slightly different, I would be an Incel. I had that mentality of "no one will ever love me" and being a pathetic, sad person. In fact, I still get those feelings once in a while if I don't catch myself. It made me more prone to that "women only like assholes and Chads" mentality. I think finding a good group of friends actually helped me out of that hole a lot. I think the incel mentality is the intersection of alienation and misogyny.

@ScorpionViper1001

3 жыл бұрын

@anderson Because that's the entire spectrum of options and preferences available to women: "assholes and Chads" or "short ugly men." Truly your understanding of women defies normal comprehension. /s

@ScorpionViper1001

3 жыл бұрын

I even tried some of that PUA garbage for a while. Thankfully it failed miserably and in terrible humiliation I never tried it again, but I got in deep into the mindset at certain points.

@lpphillyfan

3 жыл бұрын

I sometimes wonder that if I never joined a fraternity and got confidence, then I would have become an incel. I was incredibly shy and so was worried I would be "forever alone" and never get a girlfriend because I didn't think I would be able to get past that shyness. I wasn't an incel because I didn't blame women for it and knew it was my own shyness holding me back, but if it went on for longer who knows if it could have turned into bitterness against women. I will say that I have good family and friends, so that could be partly why I never fell into the incel mindset. I also have 3 sisters and no brothers, so that probably prevented me from having much misogny.

Something a lot of men don’t realize is that they can have emotional connections and be emotionally vulnerable/available with their friends. Because men are taught not to be emotional, those that buy into that mindset assume they can only be emotionally vulnerable with their significant other, which makes them close off and internalize a lot. One of the biggest moments in my life was realizing I could be open emotionally with my friends

@socksleeve

2 жыл бұрын

Very late response, but this was a huge thing for me. I became so much happier once I became open with my friends about shit I was going through.

Good advice. Two additional things I learned from my time as pseudo incel. 1. Don’t focus on one woman or one ‘type’ of woman. Getting fixated too narrowly on what women you are willing to look at or show interest in will make you blind to women who may be interested in you and you didn’t realize. 2. Show respect for women and actively try to be better at it. It is a bit fucked up to say, but from my experience women are used to being disrespected and approached in creepy ways. So by just not being a creep you immediately have a leg up on most dudes out there.

@LustStarrr

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, good tips. The only addition I'd make would be to #2 - not being a creep has to extend to not just being nice to girls coz you want to fuck them. Don't be one of those nice guys who gets butthurt because the girl they liked 'friendzoned' them. Dating & sex isn't the be-all & end-all... if your crush would prefer just being friends, sweet, congratulations on your awesome new friend!

@BasicBro99

3 жыл бұрын

@@LustStarrr 100% agree. I think a part of respecting women is respecting their no. If they turn you down the best way to show respect is to move on.

@theomegajuice8660

3 жыл бұрын

@@LustStarrr Yes, the "showing respect for women" thing can sometimes be more like "displaying your virtuous respect for women" in the "I'll treat you like a princess, I'm not like the other guys" way.

@dreamcoyote

3 жыл бұрын

To add to #1, if someone is thinking of women as a "type" then they probably aren't focusing on the actual woman in front of them. I mean, everyone has preferences, but if you are putting people in boxes, it always goes awry and it actually can prevent knowing the real person in front of you. When I was like.. 20 or so and had been single for a while, I realized the women I had been attracted to for the past couple of years had traits like lying a lot, manipulating people, taking people for granted, etc. It was a realization that something in me was attracted to something that wasn't good for me. That was kind of mind blowing and made me actively try to figure out what was wrong on my end.

@pinklemonade9215

3 жыл бұрын

As a woman, this is really good advice. We’re just people! We’re not mythical creatures, and we are just as complicated and diverse as men are. Try not to assume what women are thinking and just listen to them! And don’t be creepy :)

You're a beacon of positive masculinity. I like that you admit to your past toxic behavior and how it just snowballs a tough situation, followed by how you grew. It reminds me of when I talk about my past transphobic tendencies (who am I kidding? I was probably flat out transphobic). It's embarrassing and not easy to talk about, but it's important to discuss because that's a good way to reach out to people who are stuck in a similar toxic mindsets. I also love how you educate about certain issues that I've never experienced personally and you provide me a good jumping off point for more research. Thank you!

@thejesusaurus6573

3 жыл бұрын

Both of you keep being dope people.

@unibyte5175

3 жыл бұрын

I 100% agree. People make mistakes, sometimes dire ones, but I would say that what defines you has much more to do with your future than your past.

@sassyviking6003

3 жыл бұрын

Yea, I recently discovered this channel, but I can't stop watching. His content is well thought, he is eloquent, and it all jjst makes sense, but is also delivered with humility and understanding that no one is perfect, including him. People like that are people to aspire to be like.

I never went full incel. Luckily, there were several things in my life that kept me from tipping over into blaming women for all my woes. I think the first real conscious step away from it, though, was accepting my own issues with codependence. I was the quintessential nice guy, but in the unironic sense in that I did mean to be a genuinely nice person, and I never hit full jackass, but I was still trapped in the old world ideas of being owed for being nice. That sounds stupid, I know, but it's a very broad overview. Like you said, if I was 20 today, I might have fallen fully into the incel mindset. I happen to be 40, and only a few years ago did I actively decide to stop seeking validation in a romantic relationship. I kept picking the wrong type and finally accepted that the constant wrong choices were made by me, so maybe focus on me and be better and then worry about finding a romantic entanglement. I still don't know if I'm ready for a real relationship... I'd like to give it a shot, but the current predicament makes it difficult to get out and meet people.

@CollinGerberding

3 жыл бұрын

​@@ShinigamiRyan incels and feminists do not equate, so, that's a weird response.

@thejesusaurus6573

3 жыл бұрын

@@ShinigamiRyan that's not what feminism is though. Try harder.

@perhaps1094

3 жыл бұрын

@@ShinigamiRyan Its so dumb to equate inceldom and feminism considering there are female incel communities Inceldom literally started with women online who were just lonely without all the hate and a mass murder to its name

@ShinigamiRyan

3 жыл бұрын

@@thejesusaurus6573 Go online to twitter and look up feminism. Heck, look up TJ Kirk and his videos regarding feminism. Its not what the definition of feminism, but, it is what feminism has become.

@ShinigamiRyan

3 жыл бұрын

@@CollinGerberding They equate and overlap constantly. Just look at the metoo movement.

I used to be an MRA and a an incel . After I hit 30 I stopped caring, started getting help and loved being by myself. I really had no desire for a partner, I just felt like I needed one.

I was just thinking about incels after going through a bunch of them in a comment thread on KZread and it’s honestly kinda scary to see what type of ideas they put forth and how they view woman. I know all incels aren’t like this but it is shocking how many do. I’m my opinion, being celibate doesn’t make them a loser or a bad person, basing your entire personality and identity around being one and blaming all woman for all your problems does, and so does killing 10 people but that’s just my opinion.

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

Blaming Incels for being victims and calling them killers is very unattractive as well. You should work on that. Improve yourself m'kay?

@Sh4z23

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 hi,I've seen you very angry on a few of these posts. If you identify as an incel I do hope you're able to look within yourself and realise being celibate doesnt define you. No one is owed women or a romantic partner and it doesnt make you worthless that you dont have one. Maybe take time to work on yourself and things that interest you and romantic relationships will come. 😊

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sh4z23 Perhaps not prejudging Incels and telling us we're wrong and need to change would soften the mood? Sort of "treat others as you'd want to be treated"? Just an idea.

@ctographerm3285

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 when this is the 'face' and personality you present, then maybe the judgement you get isn't completely baseless

@Sh4z23

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 well to me it depends on what you mean when you define yourself as an incel. My understanding of it are those who define themselves by not being able to have a romantic partner and despise themselves (and sometimes women) because of it. So how do you see it?

I never became an incel, but for a while in high school I was definitely in that, "women just want men with money, you're always at risk of getting a false accusation against you," type of community

@samalama2334

3 жыл бұрын

omd you dont know how prevelent that is today. like seriously its a pandemic.

I've heard that men sometimes struggle because they can fear opening up fully to their friends, and feel more comfortable with romantic partners or people they see as potential romantic partners. The flip side of that is it means they have less resources to reach out to when they struggle if said partner is no longer with them. Treasure your friends you are close to, and find those you can be truly raw around. Those lifelines are precious and fulfilling and everyone deserves them.

@lpphillyfan

3 жыл бұрын

Yea. Men with good family and friends don't usually end up incels even if they're not getting sex or a relationship. That's something not enough people talk about in this conversation.

@e.w.4677

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah and then they place all of the responsibility for their emotional well-being on their partner and treat them like a caregiver because nobody ever taught them otherwise.

Something I'd like to advise as a woman because I've seen so many men do it. I've noticed that once most guys realize they can't date me for whatever reason they then ignore me and then don't try to continue to try to be friends with me or see where friendship goes. Communication will often just drop and it was like I didn't even exist unless I was a romancable option. Friendship counts as a suportive force in your life too. If you're good friends with one girl and it doesn't turn into a relationship, that doesn't mean she wouldn't encourage and support you finding someone else to date or having you meet someone else. It's actually really hurtful because I would have liked to be friends with a lot of guys if they didn't just drop me. I'm saying this because that's proof that romantic rejection doesn't mean you can't be liked as a person!

@Amcsae

3 жыл бұрын

Amen!!!

@neus8383

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-mi5xq8zj7u That is seriously hurtful and they seem to think it's perfectly ok?? When that happens to me I feel betrayed and treated like an object to be gained, not like a person. I genuinely thought that person was my friend and then they disappear and you wonder if all the interactions and shared interests were just a lie to get into your pants.

@xcvzvcxx2564

3 жыл бұрын

People don't owe you friendship as much as you don't owe them a relationship. If they don't want it just forget it.

@xcvzvcxx2564

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-mi5xq8zj7u while that's true, I never can figure out how they found out they "pretended"? Maybe they weren't sure they liked someone or maybe they didn't like them in that way from the moment they saw them but over time developed feelings for them. The point is if they don't want a friendship anymore that's their choice you can't force them.

@neus8383

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-mi5xq8zj7u Of course, but that's not what we're talking about. The problem is them first building a friendship and then cutting it suddenly with no warning or explanation the moment they realize they can't get what they want.

Words of wisdom.

@Megalevel95

3 жыл бұрын

Some of the best romantic advice I've ever been told - "be the sort of person you want to attract".

Honestly I'm surprised I didn't turn into an incel

@AngelusDlion

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, if it was a thing when I was a kid I probably would have been one.

@AM-jx3zf

3 жыл бұрын

How do you know though? :D perhaps incel is a mindframe and you still are

@augustaseptemberova5664

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly I'm happy for you that you didn't turn into an incel :D

@AngelusDlion

3 жыл бұрын

@@federalagent7334 Incel is a choice. IF you chose to identify with a certain group that is always a choice. If you chose to believe that sex is the be all end all of existence and not getting it is the most horrible thing ever, that's your choice. And frankly, it's not.

@painexotic3757

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not an incel but people who think inceldom is only about sex are clearly missing the point to why men turn to these groups. The real problem is social isolation and exclusion. I've interviewed alot of these men and alot of them don't have friends either because of depression, social isolation, or bad social skills. It's sad that men's mental health issues get pushed away and people in these comment sections are basically telling dudes to just suck it up. Yet if this was a woman, everyone would come to her rescue.

Thank you for telling your story! I hope it leads someone who is potentially validated by a toxic internet community to a better place.

If I didn't have a good relationship with my parents and some really great friends I could have probably turned into an Incel. My own struggles with anxiety combined with no real knowledge of how to begin the dating process just over whelmed me. Plus the fact that so much of our culture is built around the idea that you are an adult when you have your "first love" or lose your virginity was really having an effect on me and it took me a while to realize it didn't matter. At the start of college I felt really sad and I remember begging the universe to send me someone to date. I felt like it was an abnormality that I hadn't even kissed anyone in high school, let alone dated anyone, and I felt like there must have been something fundamentally wrong with me. It wasnt until around the start of my final year at college that I kind of reached a point where I was like..."you know, screw this. I need to focus on improving myself more and dealing with my issues." Anyway no idea if this will help anyone but I hope it does. Its not healthy to determine your self worth based on whether you have had sex yet or kissed someone. Having sex or having a romantic relationship has no bearing on your right to exist and respect yourself.

@Astrothunder_

3 жыл бұрын

Yo I think I’m going through exactly what you explained. I know I’m not an incel with the whole hating women thing, instead I just got all this self hatred and idk how tf to turn my shit around. All the fears and societal pressures you felt I have, and I have anxiety too and I’m in college. I have no real friends or relationships. You give me hope I can get out of these feelings man 👍🏾

@galactic85

3 жыл бұрын

@@Astrothunder_ You definitely can. I don't know what your life is like but if you have access to some kind of therapist or counselor I recommend it. It's part of what really helped me. Here is one little piece of insight that learned that may help you. We can't control what we think. But we can control how we respond to our thoughts. We can choose how much power we give them. To quote Victor Frankel "“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”" Take care and best of luck to you.

@radiationshepherd

3 жыл бұрын

That "sex/first love" as passage into adulthood messed me up too, it's a bad criteria for adulthood

I experienced bitterness towards relationships for years, but I feel what stopped me from entering the inceldom is the fact that I'm gay, (or maybe there are gaycels I'm just not aware of them), so you can't really turn sexual frustration into a battle of genders, since you are attracted to you own gender, and so can't turn your own gender into an ultimate enemy turned into making you miserable. In some ways homosexuality won't allow you to enter that mindset where the opposite gender is vilified for your unhappiness in relationships, cause you are always conscious that you're equal to the person your dating by being of the same gender, the only dichotomy I can find is the top/bottom or mass/fem (two different ones) but they don't turn into this whole battle of genders. I'm not saying the gay scene ain't toxic, it is quite toxic, but not on that level of total hate and resentment and vilification of a whole group as a paranoid complex, at least not that I'm aware of.

The point about not having sex and relationships be the like pinnacle of your existence is REALLY important, ESPECIALLY if you have depression and/or other mental health issues. It makes you devalue the relationships you have, and makes you think your life is meaningless without it. I remember my little brother started watching like anti-feminist stuff and was looking up to me because I was someone who had had alot of sex, and I sat him down and specifically said smth along the lines of "Don't consider women as a goal. They are people and they can be your friends. There is nothing 'bad' or unfortunate, or like a 'you lost', if you are a virgin for awhile or even your whole life, that's not a healthy mindset. Focus on loving yourself and building yourself up and building others up and fostering friendships, and you'll naturally (for some people, shoutout aces) start to develop romantic and sexual feelings, and you can pursue those and learn to moderate and control them." Blah blah, Im sure I said other stuff. But yeah, and he was like 12 when he said stuff like this. So something societally is making it so boys are simulatenously degrading the value of their own life and of the value of others...damn fucking patriarchy reeeeeeEEEEEE. Also, I definetely had incel tendencies, I mean I had had alot of sex and been in relationships throughout my growing-up life, so I literally couldn't "fit" the definition of involuntary CELIBATE. But, I was depressed and pitiful and almost used my MDD (major depressive disorder) and other shit to create a narrative and a romanticism where I was a sympathetic person, and it stemmed from me not wanting to help myself but thinking aquiring and KEEPING friends and lovers would somehow make it better. Rambly rambly. shoutout T1J you're a legend. Also, about communities online. That's why this sort of stuff is important. Because like you said, if you grew up now you might've become an incel, but if you had videos like this and like Contrapoints and stuff then you might not have been. So keep up the honesty and clear thinking. It's inspiring and you're a great human

Proud of you getting away from that

@stoodmuffinpersonal3144

3 жыл бұрын

Listen. I'm trans. But I thought being a "nice guy" was better than being out. I am still unpacking and unlearning. I get the "no cookie for basic decency," or "it doesn't change the past." But I will ALWAYS praise folks from getting away from those spaces. "Best apology is changed behaviour." Getting out of those things is more healthy for all of us. And? Change is rough. So I will absolutely pat anyone on the back for leaving those spaces/ mindsets.

It baffles me that a lot of this information seems so new to a lot of guys when I think it's just common sense. Shows how many more men could fall into the incel trap than I previously thought. This should be common sense. Kudos to all the men out there actively trying to be more respectful to women and themselves!

@PoggoMcDawggo

3 жыл бұрын

Someone once told me common sense isn't so common. It's sad really.

Totally can relate. Got that self victimization, women have it wrong, nice guy friendzone syndrome as a teenager and was falling in the pick up artists trap (still no 4chan or incel stuff at the time for me). Luckily was curious and also read female bloggers/comedians at the time and they gave me that epiphany: women are people! With their own tastes and problems, and don’t owe you anything just because you’re nice. Also rejection is no drama as it could be not about me but simply their taste, in the same way I could find a female friend pretty but not feel attracted to her. Then highschool to college transition did the trick: meeting likeminded people and having different experiences and maturity made me stop obsessing about that (probably became a more cheerful and legit nice person to be around) and end of adolescence gave the final push (fixed teeth, better skin helped with self confidence). Still had my issues and skeletons to fix in the following years, but that’s just part of being human.

I've never hated women and don't blame them for my problems, but it has been pretty fucking painful to have reached age 50 never having anyone to share mutual attraction with (beyond a few humiliating failures). The other day, a nurse was taking my blood pressure and had me rest my hand on her arm, and the feeling of doing that was so emotionally moving. It feels like a huge loss to me that I have not been able to experience that part of life. It hurts. (And yeah, I have taken advantage of the advent of professional cuddling as a business -- at least until the industry was destroyed by COVID a year ago.)

I did the survey for the first time! it was cool :D i like the simple questions like whats your faovrite color. thats something analytics dont tell you

@exoburst2305

3 жыл бұрын

Love your videos!

I've said before that I think I'm about one bad tweet away from being an incel, and I still think that's true. I have a lot of deeply-seated social anxiety issues that have made it difficult for me to make friends, let alone get into committed relationships. If it weren't for a few specific friends and a few specific videos (including your, and I know you don't really like it anymore, You're Probably Not Really A Nice Guy video) the pipeline from "lonely highschooler" to "angry incel" would've been unobstructed. There's definitely still a bit of that in me and I still have to pretty actively fight against it. Half of the time it feels like I'm getting better and the other half of the time it feels like I'm getting worse.

@msjkramey

3 жыл бұрын

You'll find your way. Talk to a professional and try to remember that there's nothing wrong with not having romantic "success." Everyone goes at their own pace. I have bad bipolar depression and anxiety. When I get stuck in super negative thoughts, something that helps me is asking myself, "Would I talk to a friend the way I'm talking to myself right now? What would I say to a friend going through this?" It helps a lot to imagine that you're talking to another person while you first practice positive self-talk. I'm not gonna lie to you though--it's a hard habit to form and I still falter, but it's worth the practice. Also, Idk if it will work for you or not, but I find that resisting my panic attacks just causes a second rush of adrenaline that makes them worse and last longer. If you can remind yourself that it's just a chemical fight-or-flight reaction in your brain and that adrenaline gets used up in a matter of minutes, so just breathe and ride it out, I find that helpful. Remind yourself that your lizard brain was triggered by something but you're actually safe and it's okay to have those feelings even if they're not helpful

@e.w.4677

3 жыл бұрын

From a feminine perspective: It might get better if you try to improve your understanding of the feminine perspective of the world (read more books by female authors etc.)

@ThirrinDiamond

2 жыл бұрын

Anti anxiety meds also help a lot of people! And practically everyone takes antidepressants nowadays. Theres a very funny but informative song from the tv show crazy ex girlfriend about antidepressants

3:30 profound and seriously seriously important for people to understand.

@JaniHorvat1

3 жыл бұрын

@@federalagent7334 I've seen men uglier than me that girlfriends. Your idea of that looks are everything doesn't hold up. Maybe the women can sense your mentality and they distance themselves as far as possible.

Here's an important lesson I wish someone taught me when I was younger--it's okay to go for some time without sex, you can be a normal, healthy, fulfilled human being without sex, nothing's going to "dry up" or "fall off", if you don't marry and have kids by a certain age--there's nothing wrong with that, there's so much more to life than sex and relationships, it's also important to learn to be patient and content. But that's a hard pill to swallow for a hormone-filled teenage mess.

@jamesdragonforce

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I can’t say that I entirely agree with that. I mean, you’re a human being. People are biologically wired to have sexual needs (for most people anyways). Not meaning to sound pedantic, but that’s not a bad thing. In all likelihood, unless you’re asexual (and I suspect you aren’t), and if you have needs, don’t tear yourself apart for having them. Just try to focus on self love first, that way you are better able to cope with rejection. I do think you should try to get to that point where can have a fulfilling and healthy sex life, but don’t sweat it if you don’t get there immediately.

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesdragonforce Riiight...and some people can love themselves to death, and still get no outside romance simply because they look butt ugly.

@jamesdragonforce

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 Like I said. Nothing good happens immediately. Self confidence and esteem are what I’m referring to here.

@user-mi5xq8zj7u

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesdragonforce sigh

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesdragonforce People only care about looks anyway. Just be born tall and handsome, and nobody will tell you to change or improve shit.

I appreciate that you are so candid about the flaws in your past mindset. So much of our own turmoil, when it comes to relationships especially, has its root in our own behaviors creating misery-making cycles. Self awareness and authenticity will get you farther than any sort of pickup artist trick ever will

Just finished the survey. I love the survey idea, I always want to learn more about other people.

thanks for sharing this t1j, I imagine its not something you're proud of remembering but it definitely helps to hear it from someone else that made their way out of that mindset

i think a big part of it is also realising that dating is not that important.. learning to deal with rejection is important of course, but the more fundamental goal is to not tie your sense of self-worth to your attractiveness to people you'd like to date, or your romantic success in general. There are other ways to structure your life without one, long-term soul mate.

This is great. I wasn't necessarily heading toward the incel path myself, but I definitely had a shitty attitude in my early twenties. My path away from that toxicity was similar to yours.

I remember seeing my friend on tinder, and his profile basically apologised for his existence. I sent him a message and spoke to him about that, because I knew how unattractive that shit is. I think he might have done some soul searching and had an epiphany after that, because he now has a girlfriend and is pretty happy. He was always a kind person, but he tried to solve his desperation and loneliness by chasing others, instead of "finding himself" so others could be comfortable around him.

Thanks for showing this vulnerable clip and speaking about your past experience I hope that it helps more young men escape the cyclical toxic attitude about women and their respective rolls in society.

I’m 24 and have never been in a relationship and would really like to, but it hasn’t happened yet. But I am found attractive by women and trust it will happen when the time is right. Being an incel is a poisonous mindset, not so much a state of being

@JaniHorvat1

3 жыл бұрын

I would say take your time. It's not the end of the world if a person doesn't get sex.

Thank you for adressing this and being a very likeable guy by talking so openly about this!

I love it when i stumble upon those sparse islands of positivity and understanding in the depths of the internet. This video and the comment section is just so wholesome.

Appreciate the stream highlight!

Mannnn I missed this. But god how cool. I can really relate. But so cool that you were vulnerable and talk about it.

These kind of videos are really cool. Doing the survey right now!

I actually REALLY appreciate this video because I used to watch you when I was in high school so like 9+ years ago and loved your content, but as I got older, I started to notice some of that incel mentality in the things you would post so I just stopped watching. I found your channel again about a year ago and it's really cool to see where you've landed ethics and belief-wise. I think it takes a lot of self-awareness, accountability and some courage to put out something like this about yourself. I hope that a lot of young men find your video and learn from it, there definitely needs to be a ton more resources and spaces dedicated to fighting the incel and redpill subs for and by men.

I think everyone goes through their mid 20's having this existential crisis about family and reproduction where they feel some sort of shadowy obligation to start searching for the soulmate now or view relationships and sex as a rite of passage into adulthood. Most of the problem is that there are few people who can actually help others with processing these feelings and coming to term with the grief that it causes them. Therapy is expensive, scarcely available and it's not always a working solution if you luck out on a bad therapist or you're not fully ready to do the work on yourself. It's especially bad for men because we still have this taboo about emotions that men are supposed to be stoic and, so, collectively we see emotions as distractions rather than an inevitable part of living life. You CANNOT stop feeling emotions and you cannot supress them either. There is only one healthy way through learning to master them and understanding them and it is through facing them and the truth behind why they linger inside of your psyche and influence your life so that you can learn the proprer tools for embracing them. Lingering emotions are like grief. If you never process them and come to term with them, they just seep into your life and poison your perception. Some people think they successfully keep emotions at bay through mere logic and constantly going back to rationalization and others think that they feel nothing because they shut their emotions out. Others just bottle them up everytime they come around and all of it becomes extremelly damaging on the long term. Most people I know are afraid of allowing themselves to actually live their emotions. Instead of just letting themselves accept the emotion as it comes, they will constantly try to switch to a positive mood to combat the emotion. Positive thinking can become toxic when it hinders your capacity to feel an emotion. I have a girl friend who's going through a break up and she struggles very hard with just letting it all out because she doesn't want people to see her cry or get mad or lose control, but all of this shit just piles up in the bottle and it is bound to explode on eway or another. It's ok to be sad, it's ok to be mad. Just BE mad, just BE sad, just don't attach yourself to these emotional states. Evacuate them instead. Learning this is extremelly hard, but it is the most healthy way. Let emotions pass and don't cling to them. I needed therapy to learn this. It's ok to be sad one day and with enough practice, it doesn't even need to influence your mood. Sometimes I go at work and I'm kind of depressed for some whatever reason or, sometimes, I'm just angry over an argument with someonem but it's ok. Yes I'm fucking mad, but I can have a good day outside of what happened or what is making me feel a certain way so just focus (or try to) on that and don't let things put you in a bad mood for the whole day. When it comes to "incels", well first of all, the term is very vague and nuanced and not everyone who fits the "incel" stereotype is actually the "incel" we portray as some internet scum or misogynistic pig. A lot of men just struggle with finding their place in their desire to mate. Biologically speaking, it's nothing more than a drive, but humanly speaking, it's an important part of our culture and an entire cultural universe was build around the concept of romantic love. We've been sold lies since we were born on what it is and reality only served to dissapoint us all. Romance in real life is often cruel and unforgiving and we are not prepared for it. We spend our youth running on dreamsn and fictional expectations and it breaks a lot of us and creates traumatism, but, again, with a strongly build and well trained emotional system, processing the emotions and traumatisms that comes with "getting yourself out there" becomes much easier and, as a result, it is easier to sort truth from lies and to set your priorities straight. I lost my virginity at 28 and, before that, I was like every man who's a 20+ years old virgin. Deeply ashamed of it, lying to hide and compensate for it, depressed that I was either screwing up my chances or that a specific girl didn't give a shit about my advances, etc etc. Now I am proud to say I lost it late because it changed absolutely nothing. It's not a rate of passage, it's not special and all these years of anxiety helped me with nothign and were completely pointless. Now I've dated a bit, had a few flings and all of it helped me realize that if your romantic life isn't going according to plan, then 𝐢𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐥𝐲 𝐧𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐥. Dating is very chaotic and what little control you have over your romantic life you oew to your experience and tricks. Other than that, relationships come and go, flings come and go too and your life remains mostly unchanged from your romantic life. I've learned that you should never invest yourself seriously into any romantic relationship until you've taken some time to get to know the person and that every romantic relationships at the beginning should be treated with carefullness. Just let things come to you and if they don't, until then, focus yourself on something else. It's easy to say and hard to actually apply, but that really is how things should be. You can't expect much out of romance itself because it's volatile, but your energy can be invested in things that are actually worth it. Things with actual stability. Things you can actually have control over and if love comes around the corner in the midst of it all, then open yourself to it and see where it goes. Maybe, just MAYBE it will lead to someone who will want to commit to you and be part of a mutual adventure...just maybe. Always treat love as a maybe until it actually materializes itself in your life through your effort to live your own experience. Outside of that, stop doubting yourself and feeling like you're failing just because you don't fit in some shitty plan someone sold you at one point.

@redfruit1993z

3 жыл бұрын

My only emotions are sadness, anger and jealousysince the last 15 years.

@irregularzero9537

3 жыл бұрын

@@redfruit1993z Then you need help with understanding why if you don't already know, then you need help to see yourself beyond your suffering. I have gone through extreme physical, mental and emotional abuse in my childhood and teenages and this is something 95% of people cannot understand. It caused me a ptsd, several anxiety issues and an incapacity to process my emotions which would often simply take control of me and my mood. I have sought help, I got it and it helped me in ways I, myself, have trouble processing. Nevertheless, if what you tell me is true, then, obviously, you are victim of some sort of emotional malady or maybe undiagnosed mental illness. Be careful just to not try to compensate through copes and bullshitting yourself into thinking that somebody else can fix you.

@FeelTehPOWA

3 жыл бұрын

Man, it was worth reading hundreds of incel comments if 1 sane person does a comment like this. I hope anyone who is an 'incel' reads this through lol because you're absolutely right. My own experience has been similar, alone sine i was young, confused, angry, lost my virginity 'late' (im at a point where i believe there really shouldnt be a n expected age to lose your virginity) and just overall unhappy with my own perception of myself and the opposite gender. But thankfully i was never hateful, nor was i exposed to incel-like communities. I mellowed out and believe pretty much everything you just mentioned. Letting your feelings be, understanding yourself, can be so hard. The way society is really makes it dificult.

Not proud to say that I sorely needed this

Anytime you talk about your past I think about how iconic your glow up seems to have been lol kudos

Great video T1J. Looking forward to this kinda stuff.

Kind of an off spin on toxic behavior, but I was that "nice guy" in high school who couldn't form a relationship with women well to the point where I was a dick about it. I was good to people on the outside and a festering cynic inside. I oversimplified people, swore off dating, and even when I was set up on a date, immediately self-imploded any potential relationship. This was back before social media, but I did spout some incel rhetoric when talking to my friends struggling with their relationships. Anyway, realized I was gay in senior year and came to understand a lot of my actions and choices. My emotional needs weren't being met through friends and definitely not romantically because I had been guarded for so long, it became second-nature to hurt others at the slight chance of them actually getting to know me. Worse, I had bought the ads that wanting women made you a man, so since I had no desire for women, I ended up vilifying them and myself. It was really rocky my first few years of college as I had to work at breaking down some of my reflexes, but over time I've gotten better at connecting with people. While I still struggle with dating, that's more tied to my high-travel career than my personality these days.

Was talking about this exact topic last night w my friend. Great insight

A big part of the problem is that boys are taught that sex is 1: Much more pleasant than it really is, 2: The thing that gives you social status, happiness, and self-worth. The question this raises in boys is "why am I the one who's supposed to have no happiness and self-worth", but that's obviously the wrong question - but I know from experience that it's SO hard to even *consider* changing your expectations of yourself as a "man"... It feels like giving up, like admitting you're a loser, it feels like you'd rather jump off a bridge than admit that you're never gonna be a "man" in the way you see in movies and on TV. And I think movies and TV is a huge driver of this view of masculinity. TV was written by people like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby, after all.

@cupcake5854

2 жыл бұрын

I know this comment is old, but I can relate to not feeling enough like your own gender. I'm a very skinny girl with small boobs and a small butt, and with the recent bbl craze, its easy to feel like I don't measure up to the slim-thick baddies on Instagram. Personally, I think I have a nice body and I like the way I look in my clothes. But I start to feel very bitter when I think about all of the people raving over curvy women like, idk, Megan thee Stallion or even Mrs Incredible. It makes me feel like I have nothing to offer a man but my less-than-stellar body. There are times when I'm confident that I want to get a boob job one day or start going to the gym to try and get thick and it's always accompanied by the feeling of being inferior and unworthy of affection. What helps a lot is going outside, touching some grass, painting, etc. there's so much more to life than being some dudes eye candy

@scottlinehan7806

2 жыл бұрын

@@cupcake5854 nobody likes megan the Shetland pony

thanks T1J this is sensible and well thought out as always

I love this!!! Thanks for sharing about your self awareness!

Dude, this video speaks so much to me 12 years ago. I think we kinda have similar experiences in that regard, and I also thank the miracle that I didn't fall into that radicalization hole back then. chans were already a thing, and one guy even showed me. Good thing I didn't understand the whole deal and managed to live my life

I swear man you the most relateable dude on all of KZread

I wish our culture wasn't so into segregating people by their gender sometimes. I feel like there is this artificial mystique that implies that men and women are alien to each other when really, we're fundamentally the same. Maybe my point of view is a little different since, being a trans man, I've lived with a foot in both worlds. Romance feels so much more natural when it is underpinned by sincere friendship. I mean, infatuation and physical chemistry are temporary and a darn weak foundation for love. You never know when you might end up with a friend with benefits or a one true love. Man, just talk to each other like people! It really sucks when you're cat called or complimented out of the blue by a stranger because such positive attention is usually tainted by an undercurrent of the complimenter desiring some sort of romantic or carnal interest in return. You start to feel like a piece of meat in a lion's den after a while. I gotta say to any catcaller, how would you feel if some bigger dude came up and said that to you, and it happened all the time? Love you all and hope you're keeping well in these sucktastic times!

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

Poor you for being cat called and complimented by strangers out of the blue wanting to hook up with you. (sarcastic) Go cry me a river. Meanwhile Incels like me get ignored and treated like shit our whole damn lives. I can only dream of your fortune.

@hooolllypickles5219

3 жыл бұрын

Loved this comment! ❤️❤️❤️Very interesting hearing trans views on this topic as well

@JaniHorvat1

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 kinda hard to ignore you here when every second reply on a comment is you. Don't you have video games or other hobbies to do, instead of bitching on the Internet like a sore loser?

great video man, wish I had this information when I went through that phase

I had a year dryspell in 2010 that was very "incel-mindset". Ultimately "why won't anyone sex me" is a really cringy energy to give off, and for me, learning to let go of that helped me get my leg over.

@painexotic3757

3 жыл бұрын

If you think inceldom is only about sex, you're missing the point. I've interviewed incels and it's more about social isolation and exclusion.

@ThirrinDiamond

2 жыл бұрын

@@painexotic3757 they never said it was only about that, you're projecting

@painexotic3757

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThirrinDiamond Youre responding to a 6 month old comment that I dont even rem making lmao

I have been in a few relationships now, for various periods of time, and I still catch myself thinking "girls don't like me" or even thinking about how long my "dry spell" has been between girlfriends and being upset by that. It's nice being in relationships, but something I'm trying to work on is being happy just being with myself or with my friends. Easier said than done, especially with COVID-19, but I'm trying.

does this mean that there is still some hope for me?

@xpkareem

3 жыл бұрын

probs

@l.s.9717

3 жыл бұрын

Always. It's a matter of trying and finding resources.

@AngelusDlion

3 жыл бұрын

there are eight billion people in the world. Roughly half of them are women. That means there are four billion potential girlfriends out there. Odds are at least ONE of them will be right for you.

@Agent-ol5re

3 жыл бұрын

no

@mivical

3 жыл бұрын

yes :)

This kind of honesty is why I love you, man.

Hey Dude! Was pumped to see one of your videos! Thanks for posting!

Honestly way too relatable for how I was in my early 20s as well.

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile women in their early 20's were partying with multiple boyfriends, having the time of their lives.

@JaniHorvat1

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 step your game up kid. Passive aggressive moralising doesn't win you points.

@mrmar-que6307

3 жыл бұрын

@@JaniHorvat1 John is kinda right tho .lol

Love the stream highlights!

Great points. Good perspective. I think media and social 'pressure' or suggestion influences people to think that it's so important. You are correct, relax and be you. 👍✊❤️

Great video full of honest and intelligent discussion about your self. Thanks for sharing this

When it interrupts your life, to the point where you cannot function well...time to talk to someone. We are our own best friend...as cliché as it sounds. YES!!! The guys that constantly tell you "But I'm a nice guy! Give me a chance!" That insecure, desperation isn't helping their case.🤦🏻‍♀️

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

You wouldn't care as long as the guy looks tall and handsome.

@ctographerm3285

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 sounds like a 'you' problem

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

@@ctographerm3285 Genius. Though you wouldn't say that to a woman, would you?

@ctographerm3285

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmilius3031 I actually do, but i guess you wouldn't know when not even your mother would talk to you

@johnmilius3031

3 жыл бұрын

@@ctographerm3285 My mother what? Are you okay?

love from Chicago for honesty AMC XO

I'd say from my personal experience as someone who was at risk of being an incel in college is 1 stop pursuing women for relationships and gain female friends for the sake of having friends. Like don't make your goal to be having female friends, but stop looking for women to date, and instead just try to slot women as a whole in the same mental space you place men, as potential awesome hangout people. At the same time work on self improvement, exercise, health, career and hobbies, and then out of nowhere dating and hooking up with people will just happen, because you've become your best self and have stopped treating women as sex and romance objects, and started treating them as whole people with personalities whom you'd like to hang out with, which makes you a person they want to hang out with because now you're someone who's enjoyable to be around

@Iwasjustwondering89

3 жыл бұрын

As a woman, I wholeheartedly agree. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@Melly16yr10

3 жыл бұрын

Well said 😁

@hangukhiphop

3 жыл бұрын

Geez, a guy's gotta do _all that_ before he can have a sex life??? Damn, the juice is not worth the squeeze!

@Iwasjustwondering89

3 жыл бұрын

@@hangukhiphop You do realize OP isn't talking about "having a sex life", but making meaningful connections with fellow humans? Because that's kind of what life is about. If you haven't realized that yet, you've got some serious growing up to do.

@hangukhiphop

3 жыл бұрын

@@Iwasjustwondering89 obviously there's more to life than sex, but that in and of itself doesn't make sex a dispensible or meaningless aspect of life.

Good points!

I never went through an incel phase to be honest. When I was 13 I felt infrastructured with a friend of mine. I wasn't confident about asking her out so I wrote her weird love letters. Things happened. It got weird. Her dad died so I felt extremely shitty so I stopped. Felt regretful about a friend being expelled. Wanted to be understand what being lonely and being alone was about but I stopped acting on my own desires and just focused on myself. I honestly just want some peace of mind with my family and myself getting a decent job lol.

i’m 28 now and i definitely went through a bit of an “incel” phase around 2011 (the term incel wasnt around then and for me it was more so in the direct meaning of incel-involuntary celibate-than the intense misogyny it’s associated w) but very similar to you in the “just feeling sad that i couldn’t find relationships/sex and that feeding into my thoughts about women” i was also spending a lot of time online, in spaces that were literally a couple clicks away from some communities that were leagues more toxic and shitty than the ones i was in so i feel really fortunate that i figured my shit out

Its wild how people are just expected to end up with romantic relationships. I visited my dad recently and he felt the need to try to make me feel better about not having dated? Like I never said I was upset about it, he just made the assumption that I felt like I needed one. I tried to explain that I'm not trying to enter a relationship but he didn't get it.

Dude, I wish this existed when I was younger, like 5-6 years ago. It would've saved me a lot of pain and crippling self-doubt, definitely self-inflicted, as well as dispelled what you described as "bad ideas about women... borderline misogyny, if not actual misogyny" which contributed to me not treating some of my gal friends well. Weirdly I was selective not blanket w/ my toxic masculinity, but I still deal w/ trying to forgive myself for how garbage of a mentality and personality I had. I always try to self-reflect on my current and past-self as well as deconstruct and demystify contemporary masculinity. I am very appreciative you and your channel exist! Much love brother! :)

I find this idea really interesting, when you say you benefited from *not* having a community of like minded people. Really brings up fascinating questions about the effect of a community, and how it can be a positive force or a force of destruction.

I kind of had the same thing in that I grew up before social media and probably could have fallen in that nonsense pretty easy if it was around then.

that comment "i had people i want in my life but never acted like it" cus...i literally do this. it's almost a defence mechanism i reject them first which is stupid cus i know they're not like that...yeah lemme work on that

I really appreciate your honesty.

Please remind us of the survey in future videos! I picked a bad time to watch this lol

I'm only 18 years old but I totally relate to what you said here.

Thanks for calling out that romantic/sexual relationships aren't necessarily the be-all-end-all of human existence. It's a very important message that I think needs to be emphasized more. Our society does a really good job of convincing us that's not the case, and it can be really hard to disengage from that programming and focus on and appreciate the fulfilling relationships in your life over endlessly chasing after an ideal or trying to force something that's not meant to be with a specific person. (I'm ace so I don't have any "skin in the game" so to speak, but I did spend a lot of time trying to fix something that wasn't broken because of this same line of harmful thinking.)

Afraid of who you were is a dynamic exchange of consciousness. You become new every day.

I like that you Are experimenting with format

That epiphany, totally truly big (slow moving) turning point for me too

I find that looking for a good friendship first and foremost opens a lot of doors. My boyfriend is very dear to me and I love him more than anything, but we initially started out as really good friends. We knew each other for 3+ years and were basically best friends for majority of that, we had tried to date before, but that was in high school and it didn’t work out, but about a year or so later feelings spilled back out and now it’s almost been a year since we started dating uwu. Either way, if you go in looking for friendship, you potentially will have a really good lifelong friend or a really strong romantic relationship, or something in between. Make sure you know the person and all their vices and virtues before you commit, that way you know 100% for certain that you want to be with them, whether romantically or platonically.

I mean, this is some pretty solid advice. I personally believe that a lot of the reason for why incels are on the rise/coming into the public eye is due to the notion that people NEED a significant other/sex to truly be happy. In my experience, this belief has led to my friends feeling like there is something really screwed up with them just because they haven't found a romantic partner yet. Of course, some of them really have problems, but the problem turns into an vicious cycle of insecurity causing romantic problems, and vice versa.

I know so many people that need to watch this video

7:23 I know that music, Rick Beato uses it in his outros. Didn’t Adam Neely make it with his band Sungazer?

Normal people just need to understand that ugly men like myself will always be alone forever and there's no changing that. That's just the blackpill truth.

@doll_dress_swap1269

3 жыл бұрын

I know this probably a useless attempt... but... dude... you’re not even ugly? You actually look a bit like the guy my sister married. They now have several children and a strong, supportive relationship to this day. I took a look at the video titles you have in your account, and it is just sad to see that you seem to have such a low view of yourself. I hope you can get away from these toxic kind of thoughts and find better online communities to interact with that won’t tear you down by encouraging this sort of negative resentment and bias towards yourself and others.

@samalama2334

3 жыл бұрын

That mindset isnt going to bring you anywhere. Hating women isnt going to get you women. GROW UP.

@hankhippopopalous5826

2 жыл бұрын

@@samalama2334 It sounds like he hates himself and not women

Thank you for sharing this. Your perspective is very timely. hint: women really appreciate a man who is driven and passionate about something. That positive energy you cultivate for yourself radiates outward to not just women, but people in general.

@themistheblue9449

3 жыл бұрын

@anderson You know it works both ways? Most guys who complain that no woman wants them don't really look below 7/10.

i like these

I honestly went thru something similar. Could have turned out a hell of a lot worse.

Here's the thing if u come towards women and people in general with like passion (be it your career, hobby, education, etc), a confidence in your abilities, and independent. People will be attracted to that

@ahhh4117

2 жыл бұрын

@Veni Vidi Vandali worked for me and my brothers

Also, your relationships can be more than romance and sex.

First video I watched from you in years, last video I watched you were still making them in the bedroom Im glad you are still wise as fuck, take care man, and have a good one 😁

Thank you so much for this! Great advice. I’m a trans woman who is negatively affected by all the rampant misogyny that’s a result of the incel mindset. But as someone who lived “as a guy” for such a long time, I understand how rough it can be to navigate these social situations. It’s really difficult to not get discouraged and I think it’s super important to have men speak up about how they handled it. I don’t think the broader left treats the issue as seriously as they should, and that just leaves nascent incels to the more right wing communities that are more empathic to their struggles.

2:00 The best advice I can give is to not let relationship junk become a “ride-or-die” thing in your mind. Seriously. It is NOT the most important thing in life.

I believe the main reason I haven't turned into an incel is through my relationship with my sisters and mother, despite me never having a realtionship--and don't plan on having one yet until I feel that I'm stable enough--I've never come to a point to where I see women in a bad light. It's funny, even as a teenager I understood why I never "got any" was because I simply didn't want to; I used to be very devout so that played a big part as well.

@mekannatarry1929

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-mi5xq8zj7u It definitely makes sense given the circumstance.

@mekannatarry1929

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-mi5xq8zj7u It devolves into that, I'd believe, but the source would most likely be same