Chess Vibes: I remove Pawn to weaken Stockfish, so I can win Stockfish: So you help me to develop?

@BigDBrian

Жыл бұрын

free gambit

@jamesnorman8848

Жыл бұрын

@@BigDBrian yessir

@NeonGMD

Жыл бұрын

and he sacrificed THE GAAAMMMMEEEEE

Game 97 is just Nelson vs a King and a pawn 😆 🤣 😂

@JimmyBoosterCrate

Жыл бұрын

Actually that would be game 38 🤓

@davidking4838

Жыл бұрын

And he has a long grey beard....🤣

@glitchquitch

Жыл бұрын

@@JimmyBoosterCrate I'm gonna out-actually you, fellow nerd. It would be game 39, since game 1 is even and game 2 is -1, 3 is -2 etc.. 😉

@TheAngelOfDeath01

Жыл бұрын

Omg... even after the war ends, Nelson and Stockfish are still playing!

@shotgun8323

Жыл бұрын

@@JimmyBoosterCrate r/woooosh

For those wondering, the big vase filled with pawns from earlier videos were all pawns taken from stockfish.

@thesantahater

Жыл бұрын

ha ha ha

You should challenge stockfish on a longer time control (maybe blitz?) - start with a 9 point advantage and work your way back 0 until you lose

@wojtekZ329

Жыл бұрын

Good idea

@fkhan98

Жыл бұрын

Or even with time odds. 10 minutes vs 1 minute.

@paradox5556

Жыл бұрын

@@fkhan98 more like 10 minutes vs 5 seconds. Engines are extremely quick and still incredibly accurate

@franklinturtle9849

Жыл бұрын

The time being on 1 minute is what is making it so difficult. Stockfish plays super fast and can flag you easy. 1+1 makes a gigantic difference.

@agarrikr2996

Жыл бұрын

@@franklinturtle9849 no. In fact engines only loose to human on hyper bullet , you give it time it already calculates your loss.

"What can stockfish possibly do without a queen?" Hikaru:

@notesfromundergroundenjoyer

Жыл бұрын

Hikaru was playing against 3700 rated stockfish (15)

Idea for future video: Try to beat Stockfish with unlimited number of take backs. EDIT: I.e. no time control. No nothing. Just try to beat the engine (at a really high level) and do whatever it takes (except using another engine of course).

@andy02q

Жыл бұрын

My idea too. Try thousand of different things and if that's not enough, then exploit that Stockfish will sometimes pick worse moves just to be less predictable.

@juzujuzu4555

Жыл бұрын

Would like to see this too, but I doubt takebacks would really help enough that there would be any chance.

@G.Aaron.Fisher

Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if there are any known lines where Stockfish loses when playing from turn 1 with any sort of reasonable time control. There are a few where Stockfish loses from a forced opening.

@vivvpprof

Жыл бұрын

I did that as a child multiple times with Chessmaster 2100 (?). Today when you try, you just instantly realize how vast of a game chess is and how little you know about it…

@schwingedeshaehers

Жыл бұрын

@@G.Aaron.Fishersometimes (not often) there are openings were stockfish things that the wrong player is better. (I don't know if there are any known in current stockfish)

You should do this again but remove everything on the king side.

Stockfish used a few pawns, a Queen, some knights and bishops and a rook to checkmate you, everything else was in its deep reserve. So when you took out a pawn or rook or knight it used what was left to launch its standard attack, but when you removed its Queen you effected its core attacking forces, (I.E., removing forces it had no indention of using had no effect on its attack.)

@marianorivera3272

Жыл бұрын

AI knowledgeable is arguably more useful than being good at chess if your only goal is to beat engines. The technical restrictions are the real bottleneck of engines skill.

Haha I really felt that one! You could try the same challenge but with increment, I reckon you could shave a couple of points off then. Or, you could steadily add points of material to your side, converting pieces to better pieces etc until you could win and see how that compared to deducting points from SF.

@ChessVibesOfficial

Жыл бұрын

Good idea, Rob!

@scottwarren4998

10 ай бұрын

@@ChessVibesOfficial can you do this with stockfish 16 where stockfish 16 has 10 mins thinking in total time? Has any human in the world succeded with that

He would play until he removes Stockfish's king

Brilliant, that’s how I used to handicap the mixed levels of tennis players on some ‘match play’ training nights… if someone lost a game they start the next at fifteen love up, and if they lost the next game they’re thirty love up, or they drop back by one spot if they won. Kept everyone competitive.

2 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses. That's not a bad record against Stockfish

@robertakerman3570

Жыл бұрын

This is fun 4 Us. Oh Nels, U need more time to cogitate.

@scoutbane1651

Жыл бұрын

To be fair stockfish level 8 on lichess is also not even close to the full power of stockfish 15. I think it's like 400-600 points lower? That tells you how crazy strong we've made engines lol

@robertakerman3570

Жыл бұрын

@@scoutbane1651 Hi Scout.I never played an "engine", but it occurred 2 Me what if a weaker engine had been given the advantage of "more points. Not that I'd learn -just a curiosity of it's method.

@jaideepshekhar4621

Жыл бұрын

The last one wasn't a win.

@drgovindkumar07

Жыл бұрын

@@robertakerman3570 stockfish 8 will lose to stockfish 15 nnue even up a queen

I love his optimism every game, yeah I’m up 2 pawns I’ll trade to an endgame and win, like dude you’re screwed.

Interesting! Would you play better in this situation with a two-minute time control? Or would Stockfish play that much better also, with extra time?

How about beating Stockfish in correspondence chess, that is limitless time control? It usually moves pretty fast anyway, so you could walk us through the thought process, and see how much handicap that would take. I think it would be easier.

@mittarimato8994

Жыл бұрын

Would love to see unlimited time vs against SF8. Start with a pawn odds though as the even match should be pointless.

I love your videos they really help me to get better at chess

Based on the title I take it Nelson discovered time travel ?

This was really fun to watch 👍

Same experiment, but Stockfish always 1 minute, you 5 minutes.

If I tried this challenge, even against Level 1 Stockfish, I'd end up drawing against a bare King and losing all the games leading up to that one.

@pakasokoste

Жыл бұрын

For some reason, Lichess Stockfish 1 is super strong at short time controls.

I was quite proud when I defeated Stockfish with only a queen and a king haha

Absolutely loved this video, a really interesting exercise! The 1mn time limit does make it super hard, I’m sure a 10mn time would give you more wriggle room. I’m the old days of computer chess, I found I would outperform the computer at longer times, but I’ve no idea whether that would still apply. Anyway, we’ll done!!

@tomriddle2257

Жыл бұрын

Well, I have an idea whether that still applies. Lol

@lorcster6694

Жыл бұрын

It definitely still applies. Computer running on a fast computer destroys humans at blitz

@brianbuckman6908

Жыл бұрын

No one can beat the engines anymore

How he says "good luck Stockfish" dead serious in the very first game with the 3000 elo engine and no changes this confidence is refreshing lmao. Must be a masochistic experience

Beautiful performance with a great idea. You had me laughing several times. My bet was -8 would do the trick. Anyway, thanks for the show!

I'm not a fan of 1-minute games. I don't think they're good for learning. I would try the same format but in a 3-minute game with increment so there's no flagging. And to save time, just start with a +5 point advantage.

Guess before watching the video: I've beaten stockfish with the queen removed before and I'm around 1600 rating so I'd say you can do it with a 5 point lead, definitely with a queen though. Edit: Oh wait it's bullet, I'm changing my guess to you being a queen up. EditEdit: Yup, removing the queen makes Stockfish really docile, always ok with trading pieces for some reason.

I thought you would win with a 3 point advantage but I guess I underestimated how much time was going to be a factor

Those late games look like mine when my salty opponent turns on the engine

Have always wondered about this!

I actually did predict that it would take a queen missing for you to win. I think your strategy of using every opportunity to exchange pieces was a good idea and makes good chess sense. I also think that playing only a 1 minute game, particularly with no increment, was really a disadvantage for you... Maybe try 1 minute with a small increment instead?

great vid!!

Basically the only thing that prevent stockfish from crushing you even 20 points of material behind is that he is considering you as his equivalent. He is only playing lines that he can't refute himself. But if he "know" that your not able to calculate any of those lines he would spend ~100ms per move and proceed to demolish you or Magnus Carlsen. All he has to do is avoid complications and play instantly. Stockfish is a 3900+ ELO bullet player (according to CCRL 40/2 format which is comparable to bullet) and crush all the other engines with a large margin in this time control. I'm pretty sure no human would never beat him if an adaptive strategy depending on the opponent estimated strength was implemented in stockfish.

@Otomega1

Жыл бұрын

As an example Hikaru Nakamura made a KZread series where he casually crush 2300+ rated player sacrificing his queen against a piece, in 3+0 time control. But he know the good stategy like not exchanging too much etc. So imagine what an engine would do in bullet. He would smash the piss out of us

Not really fair because the clock is much more of a handicap for a human player than stockfish

U vs stock fish with no pawn at all

Nelson: goodluck stockfish Stockfish: no good luck to you 🤣🤣

Can you manually limit Stockfish's calculation time, or depth? See how shallow a depth you have to take it to before you can win, or how many milliseconds of thought time it needs to still beat you.

Nelson the goat: It's not over until I win

Great job. That looked tough. Had to laugh at the last game

“Things are looking great” 3 moves later “I’m screwed” 😂

Try the reverse approach. Playing Stockwish until you win, but you add a point of material to your starting position when you lose.

In the game the bishop forked the rooks the rook on a1 could have moved to e1 to protect the rook on e3 preventing losing the chance to capture the bishop.

Try beating Stockfish 8 on even material in one single game but you undo thousands of moves trying different things or maybe even trying to make him do something stupid if he decides 10 times on the same decision (there's some RNG in which move he chooses because otherwise you could just let him play itself and learn his one line and then you could beat him without outside help).

I love the happiness when he won

What does Stockfish ELO rating actually refer to? Does it take time control into consideration, playing equivalent level of a human player rated 3000 playing a 1 min game? Or is the reference for computer ratings always humans playing classic time control?

@andy02q

Жыл бұрын

As Stockfish elo rises and falls with how much time you give him I assume that "Stockfish 8" is much weaker, but not easier to beat in 1 minute games.

@puppergump4117

Жыл бұрын

@@andy02q A depth of 25 (about 5-10 seconds of thinking) is the best performance of the engine. It might have maybe 1 better move in the whole game at depth 50. It looks like this stockfish is playing at a fixed depth of 15 or so. Of course, it'll always lose to a stockfish at 5 depths or more higher. I think the elo is given to the engine at its best performance or through engine-specific tests.

As I started playing chess, a few years ago, I did the same with Noam. It took 141 games and I came to the conclusion that this helps me a lot (a LOT).

At first sight seems easier removing 8 pawns that rook and knight. As any pawn they get it have to be a trade in the beginning

This is a fun one because you basically put youtself into the Martin chair, makes me wonder how you'd do against stockfish in the kind of advantages you gave martin.

cant wait for a part two! lol

It's interesting. I'm gonna try it.

could you do this but with a less aggressive time control?

Perhaps try the same format but remove only pawns. since removing pawns gives also the advantage of open lines for the fish

This is perfect timing because I've been trying to convert elo advantage to material

that smile is so wholesome

I’m guessing you need 7 points of material, but seeing 97 games makes me think it’s more

It'd be cool to see the same type of video, but with increasing time odds instead of piece odds. For example, the first game you play Stockfish in a 10 minute vs 10 minute game, then if you lose play a 10 minute vs 5 minute game, then 10 minute vs 3 minute, 10 vs 1 minute, 10 vs 30 seconds, then 10 minutes vs 15 seconds.

Isn't stockfish 15 the latest version?

Haha very funny man. The feeeling of inedequacy in chess is never ending. Even magnus would feel like an idiot playing stockfush

He did not go against stockfish, he became stockfish

How well did you do, guys? I'm hopeless. I drew wtih queen, knight and pawn ahead and won with a queen and two knights up. That's how much material I needed to beat Stockfish. My FIDE rating is currently 1892.

@quarterzillion

Жыл бұрын

@@brianbuckman6908 I beat Stockfish in my first ever game, so I had to start giving it material. I lost when he was up 12 queens. (I'm 100 rated on Lichess)

@brianbuckman6908

Жыл бұрын

@@quarterzillion 😂😂😂

After infinite games, you should theoretically be able to remove Stockfish’s king from the board.

Stockfish is at what level and you are at what level. If you need 8.5 material removed to be equal with stockfish I feel this number can be equalated to skill levels and thus calculate handicpes for the stronger players so they can play a 'fair' match. In Command & Conquer Generals Zero Hour I like to have 7 AI in alliance against me so I am giving them a boast to play at my level.

I thought the pawn removal was a wonderful tactic, but I would've removed the f pawn, since that would significantly weaken the queen side.

Try to beat Stockfisch in a 20 minute game with a knight handicap! That would be fun and educational! It’s nice to keep pawns intact, also bishops are too essential for attacks. The knight handicap is just perfect.

@umershaikh7179

Жыл бұрын

Knight handicap in 20min game should be very easy for him …

@tomriddle2257

Жыл бұрын

@@umershaikh7179 Very easy? Do you know how painful it is to play against sf? Sure, it’s not hard to at least draw, but to win? For sure not easy.

@umershaikh7179

Жыл бұрын

@@tomriddle2257 he is an NM, he for sure can do it…while GM and super GM can win with a two pawn handicap Did u not see the main factor causing him not to beat sf even with knights handicap? It was the time… but with 20min, he can for sure win as he doesn’t seem like a very fast player

@tomriddle2257

Жыл бұрын

A GM can win with a pawn advantage? Can, sure, but won’t. Even if you keep the 1 pawn advantage until the endgame, it’s often a draw. Stockfisch itself can’t safely convert the pawn advantage into a win, but you claim a GM can. Maybe if the GM uses some beads.

@tomriddle2257

Жыл бұрын

@@umershaikh7179 I tried now: SF 14.1 NUE against itself. One side had pawn handicap. Result: Draw. Ok it’s just 1 game. Still, SF should always take the win, if a GM can do sometimes.

Chess Vibes:I get more points to win Stockfish:I can still win tho

This is actually possible without talking material from Stockfish. Level 8 Stockfish is designed to blunder once in a while. That wouldn't be possible against actual max stockfish.

18:50 it's not a draw? if he just moves the left d7 rook to d8 it's mate right?

You should play stockfish right up until the moment where you think the game is hopelessly irretrievable, and then switch sides. Just to see if stockfish can get itself out of the mess it created.

What a brave man (my condolences in advance)

How about some endgames with Stockfish?

Remake the video but it’s you vs stockfish with just a king , keep playing until you lose, add 1 piece of material every time you win until stockfish has enough material to win

This is how I feel playing the Kasparov chess mate bot on airplanes lol

Maybe instead of removing stockfish's pieces, you can add more pieces for yourself. It would put up for a bigger challenge because you'd have to trade more when you're up material.

Most I got after 2 years of playing SF at level 6 was a few draws.

I was able to win stockfish with knight and bishop against king so I guess taking away pieces from Stockfisch actually helps you win

My guess is an even game is about rook odds, but as far as just winning perhaps a knight.

I think you could move with less "points of material" removed if you removed pawns only and not single pieces that are "worth more".

Idea: Stockfish plays the white side and if white wins, black looses a point of material for the next game.

Play Stockfish over and over until you win again, but instead of removing 1 point of Stockfish's material for each lose, add 1 point of material to your pieces

Mabye, you can do it like removing 1 pawn for yourself, but two pawns from stockfish

I think you can win up a rook or 2 pieces

I think you should play classical against Stockfish and play as long as you win, not taking away any material. That way your content problems would disappear =)

I'm not sure what the typical handicap is for 14 points. But I'm going to optimistically guess you can win with queen and rook odds. Realistic guess is closer to 19 points. The blitz format is definitely making the challenge way harder.

10:04 im not a im, nm, gm, fm or anything else i literally have 500 elo but couldnt you go to Re1 with any rook to protect both rooks? or is it pinned or sum

Day 11 or something (idk at this point) of posting my chess puzzle: The FEN: 2K5/PP6/pk1p4/npb2n2/2rpb2p/4ppp1/8/6rq w - - 0 1 Its white to play and win. I'm not giving in until this puzzle gets featured lol

10:00 don't panic! At least make it a trade!

It really depends on what kind of material you decide ta take from stockfish, but my guess is 8.

I played stockfish 8 twice in my life and won the first game, and I dont know how i did it, since I win about 1 out of 10 games vs stockfish level 4.

Wish i played like you

My geuss was 10 but i'd brobably wouldn't be able to win even if stockfish just had a king. Great video

I think Nelson wins when Stockfish's King is removed before the start of the game

A great challenge

put in a 3 or 5 second increment for each move you take, then you will not run out of time

Nakmeson gambit computers have a hard time evaluating this opening

I think 3 points if he pits back two pawns and removes a minor piece. If game 3 is down 3 pawns he doesn't have a chance.

Me who can beat Stockfish 1: Why is bro struggling

Try scrambled piece positions

he can do it easilly this guys insane at chess

If you remove the f 7 pawn only then you can checkmate in two

I'd have to remove everything and then it would still find a stalemate

oh nice challenge i tried it too and it took me 5 games to defeat stockfish