Thinking a KZreadr acts the same in the real world as they do in their videos kinda reminds me of thinking my teachers lived in the school when I was younger

@The_Open_Book

Жыл бұрын

That's a great analogy! Haha

@rougeakane

Жыл бұрын

Bahahaha true!

@SkiggsMoDiggs

Жыл бұрын

thats perfect

@duskianfae

Жыл бұрын

and then parents complain when they see the teacher drinking or doing anything remotely adult, like, m'am, I'm off the clock 😭

@lunaraynwolf7036

Жыл бұрын

This is a great comparison!

honestly, i've never understood parasocial relationships. maybe it's because i'm autistic, but even as a kid i could tell people on tv or online aren't the people they portray. i found it odd how my friends would talk about youtubers as if they know them, and how they'd get mad when i pointed it out. it's interesting how brains can work

@bean_draws

Жыл бұрын

Same here, I've been diagnosed with autism and never got how others can be like that lol

@Bokatisha1234

Жыл бұрын

I always assumed it was because I'm over 25, but yeah, I think Autism definitely comes into it. I LIKE characters and youtubers, but when an internet personality does something horribly against their persona, I just kinda shrug it off while others literally cry.

@mimiqmayday

Жыл бұрын

@@Bokatisha1234 this exactly! i remember during lockdown some of my friends had breakdowns (one even cut me off because i didn't understand??) over some youtubers getting exposed, meanwhile i just unsubscribed and unfollowed and moved on. i don't see the point in getting so involved with people you don't know, the only time i do is with fictional characters because they aren't real lmao

@n908qd7

Жыл бұрын

@@bean_draws same. I think it’s a bit odd lol

@Iffyish

Жыл бұрын

Literalllyyyyy. It's so weird to me that an audience can think they bond with people thru disembodied voices and images. I once lost an actual friend bc of my neutral stance on Jenna Marbles' quitting - they were so hurt by me not caring "enough" that they brought it up every time we talked until we didn't any more. Big icky feel.

I have this problem of getting attached to KZreadrs really quickly, it's a mixture of their content and personalities, but I understand that I don't know _them_ and I only know what they want us to know about them. Like I get excited when ever a KZreadr posts and worry about them when they are in trouble, but I'm not going to go and stalk their every move. I do check to make sure they aren't racist or support anything problematic, but I don't get mad at them when they make a mistake because I understand that they are human.

Hi, im a person with a parasocial crush on a youtube creator i follow. I went into this video knowing that my brain is doing this to me and that said youtubers actions has nothing to do with it. I get scared that im becoming a delusional creep, but thankfully im reflected enough to know that THEY ARE NOT MY FRIEND. I DONT KNOW THEM. and even if they were, respect is everything, and i wouldnt treat anyone else i have a crush on w disrespect or violate their privacy or consent. Since i realized what i feel is parasocial i have a much easier time to distance myself from that. Now i treat it like having a crush on a fictional character, with the exception that i dont draw anything inappropriate with them, or much at all. I still enjoy the good feelings they give me, but i dont make myself Illusions anymore that i could have a chance. Lastly; therapy really helps. I know its scary to realize you need therapy because its still very stigmatized, but its the reason im doing as well as i am today. Please consider getting therapy if you feel you experience perceived romantic affection for creators like i did and cant find a way to get a grip on it alone. Its never bad to seek help, and its very important to realize parasocial crushes are not real and accepting that is only beneficial for your own wellbeing. Let's recover alongside eachother. Stay safe out there.

I have been there. Was a emotional dumb teen and big fan of one artist who appeared super social and friendly to everybody until we got into an argument where she showed her possibly worst side over anime art style and having similar interests. Over 15 years later and we still have a solid wall between us

@purrpletiger2159

Жыл бұрын

Haven't had a bad disagreement with the artist I'm a big fan of, but sometimes I realize I just am being way too buddy buddy with someone I barely know, sure I've looked up to her for years and finally we get to have occasional casual conversations about life or what shows we're watching... But it's probably too weird for us to be friends, and I can tell she's uncomfortable with some of the jokes or references I make (no they're not dirty) Don't meet your idols kids, even if they don't turn out to be terrible people they'll still probably feel awkward talking to someone who overly adores a persona they made up, or sometimes just content they've made And it's weird because my friends who were also big fans of her back in the day, or strangers I come across who are also her fans, see me and think I am her friend in some way, and that makes ME a little uncomfortable sometimes. We accepted each other's friend request but we're not friend-friends, that's basically what I need to learn, no matter how much people around me look up to her or look up to me for having interacted with her directly.

@ClumsySquid

Жыл бұрын

my suggestion, be the mature one and end this war. Forgive/ask for forgiveness, and leave them to their own life. If they keep this stuff up, then that's entirely on them.

This was a long overdue and needed video in the art community tbh.

Anyone remember those "stay fit", "don't do drugs" & "don't pirate things" 90s commercials? I wonder when we're going to get the "say NO to Parasocial relationships" ones lol

@vibrantgleam

Жыл бұрын

Someone will do it.

@-.glorstarz.-

6 ай бұрын

@@vibrantgleamwhen im old enough i might

@GamingPandaCat

2 ай бұрын

because of the swifties, this will never happen, that group of rabid fans are too powerful to not encourage and there's nothing illegal in manipulating someone to give you their life savings, otherwise religion wouldn't exist.

I have no idea where this case fits in the spectrum, but this made me think of a very worrying pattern I've seen lately when it comes to parasocial relationships and cancellations attempts. I believe it was last year (My memories are really unorganized when it comes to dates 😔), a VA from a popular game that is known to interact and be funny with his fanbase made a tweet stablishing some boundaries, because he was receiving some really invasive and uncomfortable messages from fans. Most people were more than okay with that. But some people ~mysteriously~ decided that this was a good time to unearth a clip from a four month old stream where the VA jokes where he looks like a lesbian, and accuses him of being lesbiphobic for that. Which... Okay. At worst, the joke is kinda tasteless for some lesbians, even though it's a very common thing we jest about in lesbian and sapphic circles. Many of us who were at the stream laughed at that and said something like "lmao yea you're lesbian passing lol", like we do about many men - both real and fictional. We are not a monolith, what a group finds funny the other might find tasteless, all this stuff. I don't think that makes someone lesbiphobic, but that's just me. But let's say his comment was truly and undeniably despicable. Like, I don't know, he dropped a slur in there, or went on a lesbiphobic tirade, full on hate speech mode. Why did the original person sit on it for fours months, until the second he settled some boundaries with his audience, instead of immediately calling it out? It all felt very suspicious, and very much like a really common tactic abusers use when they feel threatened, and the VA pointed that out. And it went horribly, and of course it did, because the fandom of said game doesn't have a reputation of being inflammatory and aggressive over nothing. The original accusers used it as proof that said VA *obviously* hated lesbians, since he *refused* to apologize about his *super homophobic joke*. And people who did not even know what the accusations were originally about started attacking him until he apologized. He is okay now, and still streams and has a fun dynamic with his fanbase, specially now that the fans (I HOPE) are respecting his boundaries. But this episode still echoes in my mind about how manipulative and straight out abusive people really deep in their parasocial relationships can be, to the point where they get so angry when the creators stablishes boundaries they decided to try and turn everyone against him however they can. And this was not the last time I saw it either. There has been many Big Cancellations with various degrees of success that started over something that made me go "that's it????", and once I digged in a little bit deeper, turns out the people who started it had ulterior motives. And things like that is why I struggle between "I want to be known by people and have my work recognized" and "Maybe I'm better being unknown".

I totally get this! One time a fan of mine tried to give me their Roblox password (much to my dismay), I had to explain to them that they don’t really know me and that they shouldn’t ever give out personal info to someone online… that wasn’t a fun conversation

@Thesilliestkid

Жыл бұрын

I wanna know what happened in the convo but at the same time dont

Ducchess Celestia: Come for the cute anime girls, stay for the philosophical rigor on both the general and personal levels

I feel like this is deja vu since I saw another creator recently do a video on the same subject. That isn't a bad thing, though, since you get two different perspectives of the same topic (parasocial relationships and how much of a KZreadr's personality is curated in their videos) I never fully got parasocial relationships myself since it makes sense that people would be playing up a version of themselves when they're a content creator (even when I relate to parts of their content); it's interesting to see your thoughts on this phenomena both as a fan of someone and as a content creator

This parasocial relationship thing has lead one person who follows me to go as far as wanting to date me after we had a conversation with me giving them simple advice spanning over 2 hours. They aren't all this extreme and have boundaries but still idolize my pretty ok art. Most I normally get is the occasional roundabout "Hey what's up?" Conversation

Becoming "a creator" is a trip. I remember crossing the threshold of 400 subs and being accused of using my platform irresponsibly 😅 I knew I would deal with backlash eventually, but it happens so much faster than you'd think. I get it. When I was at my loneliest, parasocial relationships got me through some very dark times. If I can be that for someone else, I'm super happy about that But I also it's weird to get total strangers asking me if I think they should quit their job to make comics full time??? Like I don't know you 😅 plus the random backlash is... Whew.

As one who fell for Shannon's mask for the most part, I can attest to the idea of the identity of the content creator VS the identity of the person behind the creator. Celestia, the character lore video when?

I don't expect anything from content creators. Them giving me content to watch is enough for me, if I relate to their content then that's even better but I know that lots of content creators get hundreds of messages and emails and other things. I don't expect to be heard. But it's nice to know that someone cares! :) Keep doing what you're doing Celestia! I'll support you all the way! :)

Funny how you put this video out just as I was starting to ask myself "Is it creepy how much I know about Celestia?" after watching your storytimes, hearing your name and last video, seeing your face. Of course, I wasn't actively looking for the information and I'm not idolizing, relating or attracted to you, but with everything I (thought I) knew, I wasn't sure. Thanks for helping me confirm to myself that I am not a creep/stalker 👍

This is such a deep video, I understand where you're coming from! As an artist, your videos have very much helped me improve!!!

I’ve never really understood parasocial relationships, well I mean I don’t understand relationships in general.

I just wanted to know how to draw bedrooms, now a blue haired girl is talking about online identity dillemas... Looks like a very interesting channel

@Ridgerian

Жыл бұрын

it is lol

I always see it as a sort of balancing act between hiding your identity completely, and and revealing every tiny detail about yourself when creating any sort of content, and it’s always tricky to get right

honestly this is one of the most interesting topics you've ever talked about, and I feel like these kinds of stuff should be talked about more.

Sometimes I do find myself teetering on parasocial relationships with people I subscribe to on here. I have to often stop myself and tell myself that I don’t actually /know/ them. A lot of KZreadrs will and do share intimate details of their lives, yet they still keep private parts of their lives as well. They are entitled to privacy. I may call someone an acquaintance or colleague of sorts, consider them my peers, but that is about it.

This is an excellent video, and definitely something that needs to be discussed. It's so easy for people to fall into parasocial relationships, it's important to often self-reflect and keep yourself from doing so. And Creepshow may have been talked about to death, but she's an excellent example of a parasocial relationship that...wasn't really the fan's fault. She encouraged these things, actively spoke against, them, condemned them, and flat out said "I WOULD NEVER". I can't speak for her, but looking back I do wonder if she was trying to use all that so she could shield herself if the lolcow stuff came to light--but it completely backfired since no one likes hypocricy.(and I'm not even getting in to what she did to Emily. That's a whole new can of worms.)

This is SO important to be aware of; thank you so much for making this video! I actively feel closer to content creators I have been watching for a long time, and I remind myself: "They are friendly, but you two aren't friends." It's never meant in a bad way, and helps me recognize what our relationship is. I'm happy to say I have met someone I borderline idolized and seeing that they were human, just like me, allowed me to form a healthier perspective of all the content creators I watch.

I love this video topic! It’s important that people should know that a person and a sona aren’t exactly a 1 on 1 thing. We have our own personal lives and our online lives.

This is why I have been afraid to go more public with my art projects or stream in general. I don't know how to balance things and I'm not sure how to move forward. I would love to stream my art more and share more but I don't know how.

I, unfortunately at least three parasocial relationships (probably more, but memory is crap) One with a indie game developer, who made a game with the first ace representation (although I don't think this really counts, but I did feel really attached to my idea of them) Another with... A certain blue haired guy, who made a beep boop mod (if you know, you know) And, another one that might not really count Basically, there was somebody who run an ask blog for a character I really liked at the time. This was also around the time, where I hadn't realized that I was an ace/aro, who (platonically) likes girls. So I had a massive "crush" on this character ... So yeah, I developed a "bit" of an unhealthy attachment, to this person who pretended to be a character I like

I think this made me realize that I do have a sort of parasocial relationship with Kurt Cobain, even though he died a good six and a half years before I was born. I can relate to him so much, and back in 2018, I would try to guess which causes he'd support or which bands he'd like. I'm a bit better now at separating the Kurt I see in interviews and the part of him that I will never know (like if he'd like Linkin Park- that was a serious bit of projection from 17-year-old me), but it's still a work in progress.

You really deserve better Duchess Celestia! 😢

16:31 - 16:39 - this statement can be applied to several creators, but i'd be lying if i said the first person i thought of wasn't Dream... because even if you put all of his crappy actions in his "past" aside, the way he exploits his impressionable teen girl fanbase for his and his friends' financial gain is just deplorable. i could probably fill an entire novel about everything he's done to encourage parasocial relationships and take advantage of his fans. i hope more people will open their eyes with recent events (the face reveal, the fan w/ the nsfw shirt at twitchcon) and realize that they're just regular people, not the idolized characters playing minecraft.

Watching this video all i could think of was "yup thats dream right there"

I'm glad you made this video. And your channel, which I only discovered today and have been enjoying immensely. Thank you for the reminder that we are all just humans, no matter how we choose to portray ourselves under whatever varied circumstances.

I discovered your channel a few days ago, and I've really enjoyed your chilled out dialogues about rather heavy topics. I just wanted to show my appreciation your content (in a normal not overtly obsessive way, obviously ;p). This topic reminds me of how a lot of fans of extreme and underground music genres (think black metal, power electronics, dark ambient, neo-folk, etc.) such as myself will occasionally struggle with feelings of self-consciousness. I know I'm a perfectly normal person under most circumstances, so do my family and friends, but I'm regularly listening to music with misanthropic and outwardly amoral themes - alongside the kind of music that is the total opposite of those qualities. I'm comfortable in my own introverted space with those darker styles of music, but when others are around I can sometimes feel the anxiety of how it might come across to them. These genres often have negative associations, both undeserved and warranted depending on what individual stereotype we're talking about, but even though I've been listening to a wide range of music since the early 2000's, I _still_ get self-conscious about it. "Will they think I'm some sort of hateful weirdo? Or a political extremist? Or some gatekeeping elitist creep?" etc.

I honestly agree with what you said, indeed creators or even just celebrities in general have to put up an image or just keep on with what the fans enjoy, no one would want to support someone they don’t like or relate to so creators and companies have to try hard to please what the fans seek in return losing the creators or celebrities’s true personalities with ones that are usually sugar-coded. Having the feeling of connection between creators or celebrities are common and something that companies push the fans to have without thinking about the future of what might possibly be something dangerous,those are what most fans of idols most offen fell, idols, the more popular they are the more they have to act like a certain image that their companies portray them to have.

I think because of my own experience on the Internet, I enjoy watching faceless channels like yours, Corpse Husband’s, etc because I am on a daily level highly aware of the difference between one’s avatar and oneself. It helps, when the avatar is so wildly different from their creator that it might actually be impossible for the two to coexist physically as well as emotionally/mentalg

i always learn new stuff on your channel lol

Very insightful watch. It made me think about how that these sorts of parasocial relationships didn't exist before the age of the internet - even influential public figures had more safeguards against overly familiar people. The Internet really facilitated these sorts of relationships forming for more people, and our education systems don't teach people to not get too attached to online influencers. But even so, who's to say a persona someone's crafted isn't genuine? People have many faces or masks, and sometimes whichever is the realer one comes down to which one is used more in the end. If someone feels the need to use a newer persona over their original personality, they would start to identify more and more as their persona. Even the most pretentious people can transform over time into their assumed identity. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if your persona doesn't feel genuine, use it enough and you'll probably shorten the gap between you and it sooner than you'd think.

Honestly I understand. Most KZreadr make a persona of themselves for privacy/to gain attraction. Their like actors they make a character up for expressions, and a lot of people can get attacked for who they really are/how they act. You are just a character on a screen. They do not know you and you do not know them. I understand that Celestia probably will never know my existence, and I’m okay with that. You can hope your idol may notice you but these people have lives. Just because they share a few personal details about them doesn’t mean you KNOW them. If they actually interact with you and you guys have a relationship it still doesn’t mean you know a lot about them. Your just friends with the persona they made

Thanks for the video! This was a good wake up call for anyone who could be in an unhealthy parasocial relationship but it's a good reminder for everyone. I hope you're doing alright, Celestia(and Paige)!

Great conversation. I've never understood parasocial either but it's incredible how sad it is to see. I hope these people find more meaningful real relationships.

Sooo glad to realize my "worst case" of a parasocial relationship was sending someone a fanart of one of their characters, stating I was hella nervous about that because that was my first time sending anyone fanart at all and asking if I could call them an "art friend" XD Another insightful video, Paige! I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately (brought forth when the kids in the class I teach asked me if they could see a video of me performing with my band and I was suddenly very aware that that could potentially lead them to my art page and writing) because gosh can your internet persona be different from the person you are in real life. My writing is dark and gritty while the kids know me as an encouraging and caring teacher. A person's life has many more facets than the things they care to show online.

Tbh when you talked about how you like dark things I related so much. The things you described (besides creating guro art) are all things I do, I watch true crime and sleep to creepypastas ever since I was 15. My dad let me watch all sorts of really gruesome movies that he had no business letting me watch when I was a kid as well. Honestly everything you said I was like, I do this, I also do this, omg I also do this wtf. And I also related to the like contrast between what I put on social media and who I am. Like I don't showcase my darker interests in my posts, I rarely do any horror theme art, and when I do I add warnings since I know most people that follow me came here for cake not gore. Like, I make magical girl art and on occasion fantasy like art, and even my fantasy art is very like cute and pg.

What I find incredibly hypocritical is how content creators often dodge their responsibility and blame in this power dynamic and situation and just blame the audience entirely.. in the early stages of a channels lifespan creators are often either knowingly or unknowingly using more endearing relatable language, being less professional and more open than necessary and not setting boundaries from a language perspective which to younger viewers plays on a lack of emotional maturity and understanding from a emotional and intellectual perspective, playing on the empathetic and sympathetic natures.. I never understood why content creators would tell their audience not to trauma dump but then made content trauma dumping on their audience as if they asked for it and when an audience member expresses discomfort the audience rip you apart for your honesty and constructive criticism and then that content creators goes out of their way to heart the comments of people berating the person providing the criticism which in turn indicates you approve of that behaviour and thus they continue..I feel maybe we should be holding ourselves to the same standard we hold our audiences and practice more mindfulness.. parasocial relationships suck and to some extent everyone is guilty of it.. acting like you're entitled to a new release and disregarding that people have a family and life outside of the factory job or content creating or singing, and complaining about it taking too long? Parasocial.. it's important to think about it and catch yourself.. the world doesn't revolve around us or them

@Dinoslay

Жыл бұрын

IMO many people’s lack of chemistry often stems from a poor understanding of our limits, both in ourselves and in each other. While it is okay to improve oneself we should always do so with respect to where our limit lies. Otherwise we’ll only deprecate ourselves and each other. All abuse stems from humans looking down on what they perceive as weakness. It is *totally okay to have limits.* One shouldn’t even try to appeal to whoever fails to respect that. It isn’t nice to fake niceness nor is it cool to throw away what legit kindness you have to those who won’t return it to you. Being a people pleaser won’t help you like yourself, a problem that also exists in parasocial relationships. So don’t try to be that. Most importantly, no matter who or what challenges that and what ever it is that you do with your life, always start by liking yourself because that is legit relatable.

@eye776

Жыл бұрын

@@Dinoslay The thing is that for many people, merely "liking themselves" is not going to do much to help them successfully navigate human society. Different people have different needs. Some people need to fake a persona just to have a shot at living a normal life. Because much of how we interact with others is deeply influenced by nature / genetics / evolution. Before loving yourself, first you need to have enough money and enough of a social network to survive. The truth is that the world can be harsh, often unforgiving.

@Dinoslay

Жыл бұрын

​@@eye776 ”The truth is that the world can be harsh, often unforgiving.” And it is that unforgivingness that has the potential to break people’s limit. Vigilant observation about that isn’t a bad thing in and of itself. So I still stand behind my statement, even with money, social networks and relationships of any kind people can still forget to work within their own natural limits which isn’t exactly healthy. We can either take our time to assess it and learn from it or rush in and hope for the best. Each individual ultimately makes the choice and is accountable for what they choose to do.

This is a very important message for young people especially, as many don't quite understand that people aren't always the way they portray and display.

Wasn't going to comment but the segment from 21:50 to 22:00 hit home a lot. I had a very small stint in twitch streaming around the year of 2019, and then again in 2021. Amassed somewhere around 50 some followers. And you would think that doing it for such a small time and small viewership that it would not have resulted in people feeling entitled to my friendship, but apparently not. There were a few people in particular that were especially bad. And have honestly re-contextualized how I look at online interactions entirely. Used to be a big fan of the sort of online personalities that make everyone feel welcome. And honestly looking back I definitely was one of those parasocial fans in a few cases. But since then have been trying to keep a healthy distance on all social media, both on how people perceive me and how I perceive others, and its been great! Really makes the whole parasocial relationship thing feel like a "you don't truly understand retail workers until you work retail" sort of thing

Hey, never feel pressured to interact with us to much or let your bondaries be stepped over because of the parasocial relationship most of us have formed with you. Do what you want and as you please, this is your channel lol with your bondaries and I like your content, art, and persona so much that I, alomg with many others I presume, would be happy anyway :] I am fully aware of my parasocial relationships, that you are anything but my friend and more of a content creator I like and a stranger, but I try to stay very self-aware and I am infinetly sorry for all that has happened to you regarding how other people may react to it. But no matter what, I am happy supportively commenting on your videos as a simple thank you for all of your tips, very good quality content, and videos I love to use as backround noise. Anyhow, take care ya'll💖

Another thorough and comprehensive look at both sides of the spectrum! DC, as the creator you present, is the best at tackling these topics and you should be proud of your ability to curate that, even if it's not wholly yourself. I know that feels strange though. I've got to admit, based on the pastel colours/theme of the channel I think I also assumed you weren't an avid horror buff lol I'm sure that shocked a lot of people haha but if you've got a healthy, distances mindset to creators, it should just be a "oh, okay sure" realization, not a complete upset of their entire perception of you. I think Parasocial relationships are really complicated mostly because, generally, people aren't aware enough of themselves. Like, if you take a Parasocial relationship to the extremes, that's probably more a reflection of a flaw they have with *all* relationships. Which makes the creator feel like it's their fault for curating viewers into loving them, but it's all just an illusion and how much we allow ourselves to fall into it.

really needed this reminder, a youtuber i loved for years recently decided to destroy their reputation and reveal they were actually a terrible person so this was a nice grounder :)

@SeinIshamiado

Жыл бұрын

I'm guessing dream?

@addendumBeekeeper

Жыл бұрын

@@SeinIshamiado ah no actually, youtuber and OC content creator called HilarouslyScary, been following it since 2019

Great topic to cover 👌

Eeyup, definitely been there. COUGHtarastrongCOUGH One can simply forget how even ”supposedly fantastic” actors have their limits as human beings and, being *only human,* they too make blunders and, knowing their status, such mistakes(if severe enough) are all that it takes to cost respect for their character after the good impression that they initially sold you on. Lesson of the day, parasocial relationships, like any relationship, aren’t exempt from causing pain in this imperfect thing that we call life. It is wiser not to assume too much good nor bad about those who *you never met in person and have instead only caught a virtual slice of.* ”There are no truths, only interpretation.” -Friedrich Nietzsche. Just my two cents for whatever it’s worth.

4 men and a wife dang all I got is a plant.

The way I approach online creators is similar to how I approach online friends, but of course, much more reserved. I appreciate them and care for them to an extent because they can make me happy, but I know and always remind myself that they don't owe me anything. They could one day leave, and it's fine if I feel sad, but it shouldn't feel as if my whole world is falling apart. I think a lot of what I said can also be applied to real-life relationships. edit: I also like to mention that what helps me is to remind myself that them being an online creator is business to them. It doesn't mean they can't be human, but in a lot of cases, such as vtubers, especially those working under companies such as hololive, vshojo, nijisanji, etc. it's their job. Think of the mentality of separating personal life with work life

This is a genuinely powerful video… I have a really small channel, but you guided me to realise I’ve been inadvertently doing this with my subscribers to some extent… the tricky thing is, I genuinely do care for people so much and want to help people, and most of my subscriber base seems so healthily appreciative of that. However, there have been a select few who’ve really projected onto me and I’ve admittedly given them individual attention without realising that they were putting me on a pedestal, and how dangerous that actually is. I’m finally in a state of awareness where I realise this has been happening, but don’t know how to navigate it now with this new awareness. Like the saying goes, I “can’t un-ring the bell”. Do you (or anyone here in the comments) have any tips on how I can take accountability and start setting better boundaries now? I have a couple subscribers in particular who I’m a bit worried about with this parasocial dynamic and I have no idea what to do next. 😬

@wannabe_recluse6028

Жыл бұрын

from an outside perspective, it seems like just complete honesty saying, "hey, i noticed that ive been doing something that ive since realized i probably shouldnt be doing" is the best way to go, but i have no idea what your individual situation is like, so thats the best ive got, sry! something to keep in mind though, yes, you care for and worry about these people, but that doesnt make you responsible for them. theyre still responsible for their own decisions, and you dont owe them anything. if you choose to put say youll do something, or outright say youll treat an issue a certain way, then yes, youre responsible for that, but you arent responsible for upholding whatever image they themselves built of you. i hope you can figure your situation out!

Honestly it’s more relatable to keep parts of oneself private than it is to share everything with your audience. But I feel a relationship with a KZreadr and other online content creators is the relationship starts and ends with the video, that’s what most would prefer Id say.

you gave the creep show art example, I would also say that's why we felt hurt by J.K. rowling turning out to be a terf it absolutely really hurt but it's on us the viewers as much as it's on the creator

Tears of Themis?! Instant like!

Iv’e never been able to form parasocisl relationships (as an adult at least) I need meaningful connections, it takes a lot for me to even make friends, so I can’t fathom thinking some random creator is my friend, when they don’t know me. One sided relationships seem exhausting and bad for mental health. Like I can enjoy a creator and their content, but I don’t see them as my friends and never will, they don’t know me. I also just think one sided relationships/parasocial relationships are extremely unhealthy when they pass the point of simply relating to someone.

I think the way I fully disconnect from thinking I fully trust or am friends with the people I watch is the thought I get a lot which is "I feel like I this person would be a good friend" or "I wish I had a friend like them" but I never have thought that someone was specifically my friend. It is odd to think, though, that I know so much about you, even if it is your personality put through ad friendly and content specific filters, and you know literally nothing about me. But I also did a whole research project on Elvis in middle school, so the same applies to him, yet its less.. strange feeling? parasocial relationships are so strange.

i am terrible at replying to online comments ;u; throughout the years online i've kind of adopted a mentality of "appreciated, but never expected" if i get replies on stuff i'm glad, but if i don't i'm not really bothered by the silence. and i just hope that people understand that the same goes for me. (which is why i hardly reply to anything, this video being a rare exception) but the distance from social media is nice. No one needs to know everything about you.

I think I only experienced it once with a small new starting KZreadr and I felt like I could get noticed since they didn't have a large audience. Its the same feeling you get being in fan group of an obscure thing. Kinda embarrassing since before I prided myself on never being in a parasocial relationship and that that anyone who was in one was stupid..... Guess I got my own medicine, of course I'm no longer like that.

I honestly have tried to stay away with having that type of relationship with people I admire. But truth be told, when the creators in question actually give you a bit of their attention. That feeling not only feels like your worth something to them. It does give an addictive feeling as well to keep going at it. But of course I know, I should stop while I am ahead, knowing this is the overall furthest I should go so it won't go too far. So what I do, is message them once every week or two and wait within another week to see if the response, if they don't. Keep your mind on other things for about another week. It tends to com off more natural than creepy and/or obsessive. If you simply want to make a comment that the creator you like would like it and that's it's, that's also fine since your only giving them a minute of your time just to see if the find it funny or they appreciate the comment.

I always saw KZread personas as like wat you do in real life and only show apart of urself to a select few of people that u don’t know how to feel around yet I see these personas as showing a touch of ur personality but not the whole thing I watch your videos and other KZreadrs and I see your personalities through something’s you say, draw , etc. at the end of the day I can only draw from the basics but it’s from there it’s where ur whole personality stems from we can’t exist without the basics so from the small bit of personality that I see I can tell you would be awesome to hang around if I got the chance I’ll admit I’m not particularly well versed in this kinda thing but I feel like we would/could be good friends if given the chance I’d like to get to know u but only if or when ur comfortable and it’s really funny that ur name is Page cause my last name is also Page so it’s nice to meet my long lost cousin 😜 hope to know more about u someday 😊👋🏾

Sounds like people projecting their wishes and desires to some distant figure, and then try and somehow own that character in whatever means possible. To a point of eventual unhealthy obsession that drains their own personal life onto a fantasy.

This all feels something like a phenomenon I've encountered working in customer service positions where people seem to automatically think that because you're polite and kind to them, that this is a genuine feeling and you must be personally invested in them and to some even share their views when this is NOT at all the case. I'm being polite because I'm PAID to, not because I'm also as invested in you finding that one light-bulb that's also a flashlight so you can ship it to your friend in Idaho as you are, so please DO NOT try to get my PERSONAL phone number so you can run home and tell me what to look for! When I worked at a motel there were instances where I was just internally screaming the whole interaction because I'd ask "How many nights are you staying?" and the answer would involve some long winded saga of a backstory fit for daytime TV drama when literally I want or need is a number. One time a lady dumped so much on me that she decided to stop only because it was taking so long and promised to finish later, and it took EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING not to say "please don't." Existing in public as someone other than a private individual, whether it be as an employee talking face-to-face with people separated merely by a uniform and a nametag or as a content creator masked behind the internet is just fucking exhausting mentally at times.

Being a beginner "content creator" makes how you fit into the parasocial puzzle SO bizarre sometimes, cause I think sometimes it's a fine line between being mindful of encouraging parasocial relationships, and subscribing to the archaic idea of status we're all indoctrinated with. Most of my mutual on other social media are artists with WAY bigger followings than me. So more than once I've interacted with a creator with mindset of... well frankly, "they're out of my league", only to figure out they also like _my_ art, and want to talk to _me,_ so now we talk about fandom stuff on discord, gas each other up in our comment sections, all sorts of stuff. I know at least one of these people who stopped interacting with a discord in which they had probably the largest follower count by a decent margin. Because everyone was either too intimidated to talk to them, or just gushed about how cool they are, and they just wanted to make some art friends.

gotta agree on the assuming everyone is an asshole online. I wouldn't take advice from myself or share in depth my thought process on different things, but every time another story comes about on why another creator = bad for some messed up shit they've done at some point it always pushes that thought in my mind. Although I have gotten to a point where I don't trust anyone anymore. I always walk into everything with a very high level of suspicion.

God, I know I've been caught in parasocial relationships a ton when I was first online. Most of the people I ended up looking up to, I ended up being able to speak with them through Discord, I was able to get to know more about them than I ever could have expected. But with two in particular, I ended up falling to a lot of disillusionment. With one, I thought I was such close friends with them, I couldn't understand how someone disliked them, I couldn't understand how they could have done whatever horrible things they did and I ended up fighting tooth and nail to defend them at one point, to my own detriment to my mental health. I had such bad panic attacks due to the confrontational aspect of everything and yet I was still defending their actions even though they did some genuinely shitty things. The other person I have no interaction with anymore. I was a dumb kid and they were an adult that uh. Kinda exposed me to stuff I shouldn't have seen, and it wasn't til the other person freaked out (we all knew each other, if that makes sense) that they got some sense knocked into, or so I thought. I hold myself accountable for what I let myself get exposed to because it was my choice to back out, but I also didn't know better, and it finally ended after we got firsthand confirmation of said person being a p3dophile. Nowadays, I don't get my expectations up too high. Everyone's human, and putting them on a pedestal like you said only hurts everyone involved in all of it. Sometimes it's not til you talk to someone directly (even if it's just online) to understand that, and I know a lot of people don't have that sort of opportunity for a number of reasons. I guess that's also the reason why the old saying, "never meet your heroes" is a thing: you just conjure up a perception of someone that you don't know, and disillusionment hurts when you get hit with it. I'm a bit more of an optimist to where I try to see good in people before evaluating anything else, but I also realize that not everyone is an open book and there's more to them than meets the eye. Everyone on here at the end of the day is a human; flawed, imperfect, capable of saying something others don't agree with and making bad choices that get combed over with a fine tooth comb. I'm glad this video exists. It made me really think about a lot of things

@TripleR7331

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I'm not sure what you experienced was necessarily a parasocial relationship, but I can understand the feeling of putting people on a pedestal and putting impossible expectations onto them. I used to be really close with someone that in hindsight I projected my expectations of a decent human being onto, when in reality they acted out in incredibly immature ways at times and also did some heinous things I overlooked due to wanting to maintain that image of an ideal person to me. It feels hard to not expect that much from people while also simultaneously not expecting the worst, though. Seems like a tough balancing act of managing expectations, especially when people tend to want to believe more in people they trust - sometimes to unhealthy levels.

I don’t show my full personality online because I’m actually a very broken person. That’s why my branding and avatar is a anime witch character. Another note, I often see fans of one direction and or other boy bands (bts especially) write those oc /self x band member fan fictions. Don’t know if that’s a bad thing or good thing either.

There's a wikibooks article named "Professionalism/Vtubers and the Ethics of Synthetic Media". It's quite enlightening One example quote: "By creating a fictional narrative, VTubers *benefit* from keeping their real identity anonymous while establishing a strong relationship with fans. VTubers provide a form of *emotional escapism* by giving fans attention during livestreams."

Viewers can also seem or even be different people outside the internet. I for example am far more confident and likely to say something on the internet than I am outside of it. It shouldn't come as a surprise that creators can also be different outside internet when viewers can be as well.

I actually struggle with the idea of parasocial relationships with some actual friends because they have larger followings than I do so I just.... They're not actually my friend, they're just nice, I'm just being parasocial. But it's not the case with them. Parasocial relationships are fucked and have more effects than I ever expected

Parasocial relationships are so weird. I try to place myself in the safe end, but sometimes I find myself blurring the lines a bit. But I think the most I ever felt was "damn, this person sounds like they'd be cool to hang out with", which I think is a safe space to be in when it comes to interacting with creators. Not really hyper idealizing them, just seeing the vibes of their content and be like "yeah, I think it'd be fun to play mario kart or something".

The frustrating part is the new wave of creators, namely Vtubers, who violently and almost desperately pander to the parasocial bond with their "simps" or fanbases. Also causing "Talents" to be pretty much ruined should a relationship even be a mere possibility. I dont mind using a cute avatar to make content more comfortably but this intrusive bonding and lack of passion for the actual content has become an absolute pest. So many times I started to watch a Vtuber because they play a genre I like but then they drift off to "trendy" games and just do bullshit creepy Role Play ASMRs Like I dont want to be brainwashed into thinking Im dating this weirdo, I want to watch them play (example) horror games

honestly this video made me realize that I am a lot more normal than I thought- I thought I was just a 'self aware parasocial prick' with most creators i liked since 'oh i like their content and their personality is in the content which makes it better' but uh yeah knowing what i know now i am i am terrified and probably gonna remind myself more often that the funny internet people are not people i know even if im laughing with them at whatever comedic thing is happening or going 'same bro' with opinions theyre talking about-

i never really understood parasocial relationships. Hope that there'll be some viral video or picture that informs people that kinda stuff is harmful

Parasocial relationships are very trippy- I’ve never had this many people message me first just to talk to me, but at the same time act like they’ve known me for so long.

"Nothing in this world is real" - Madonna once said

Oh heavens

I don't think I have any parasocial relationships. The concept always confuses me juuust a little bit, but not enough for me to have any questions either.

17:09 - 17:13 Well, either way it's about fans paying one's bills, isn't it?

I have no interest in knowing you, or in you knowing me. I'm here because I find we are polar opposites (Celestial anyway), yet you have an intellect which challenges some of my own perspectives. Perhaps, when you read them, some of my perspectives have given some insights as well. You are an easy listen for me. And I do enjoy your channel. I understand you cannot come off harshly, unfortunately, I can only be dry, blunt, and forward. For that, I apologize. Do keep this channel going, please.

To be quite honest Page, you kinda made it rather clear you were somewhat into horror by the few mentionings you made of the SCP series. Yeah, I am that kind of person that is casual with knowing a person as much as it is reasonable, at the same time. Keep in mind of any odd things mentioned by them. Usually it leads to more interesting discoveries when they reveal it. I made a comment saying this when you brought up SCP briefly in your past videos.

I would like to meet Paige. The way you described her she sounds like a cool person.

Unless I'm physically talking to you every so often? Or going thru life's challenges with you? We don't have a connection. That's why I never cared about celebrities or any influencer. I don't know them, they don't know me and more than likely don't care to know me either. I find it bizzare that people can build connections to a person they know nothing about but that might just be me.

Intersante

Parasocial relationship or not I still think your cool Page and as Celestia ❤

i don't know if you read your comments, but is it ok if i draw fanart of your sprite?

I think this could apply to internet friendships and interactions in general and not just creators who you watch from afar. I've had several online "friends" end up with very bizarre perceptions of me and became disappointed when I didn't do something they wanted/expected of me. Even when you chat with someone regularly on Discord or exchange comments on social media, there will always be details that are hidden about you from the other person, even when it's completely unintentional. Online interactions are forever limited. These past few years have left me doubting that "online friendship" can even be a thing.

I used to have a parasocial relationship. I regret it. 0/10 won’t do again.

While I'm generally of the opinion that you can't really know anyone like you think you know them, because there's always going to be some part of them that's just for them, content creators tend to be in a rather odd position where people treat how they act to a camera as their full self and that you can't know anything more about them. And I honestly don't think they want to know more about the actual people these creators are

Jesus Christ, I didn't realize peoplw were acting like that 😬

TEARS OF THEMIS YESSS OMGJFOJGOMFOF INLOVE WITH LUKE YAY

Honestly, I personally don't believe that parasocial relationship is all around negative. It can have it's faults, but I believe even content creators/streamers and vtubers do similar to how fans in their own personal lives.

The way I see it, it is extremely gross to try and take advantage of someone willing to dump large amounts of money/emotional investment on said internet person. I don’t care who it is. I see so many people saying “It’s their fault for not being able to control themselves.” I’ve come to view that mindset as ableism in some way. Many people struggle to make good decisions or face reality, and I don’t think they deserve to be exploited for that.

Honestly, at this point, the only thing I expect from youtubers is to not be absolute monsters (Colleen Ballinger and Creepshow come to mind)

i realy feel sorry for you bc all of those weird people, they should know that they know almost nothing about you, i also know nothing about you and it weird that they think they know you

While it's great listening to your content creator, please keep in mind it's just their KZread. They're still human. They have lives that are probably busier than yours.

That’s the horror of idolatry… 🙅🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

I have literally know idea who you are.

like, i get it. you like and maybe idolize the creators you watch. but they're people! they have lives outside of their content! its not like you know someone personally because youve been watching them for multiple years, or because you've watched every video by them.