"In an effort to keep a low profile you kill 27 police officers" is really funny

@dalgusmaximus4557

7 сағат бұрын

Terminator style.

Troy Baker really played the same character twice within the same year and that's actually quite funny to know.

@pnut3844able

10 күн бұрын

@@otaxCarbon what do you mean?

@Ragingknight12

10 күн бұрын

@@pnut3844able He played Joel in the Last of us, who had to escort a girl Ellie to a specific place, In Infinite he played Booker Dewitt who had to escort a girl Elizabeth to a specific place, there is a lot of similarities there in BOTH games

After playing Burial at Sea and learning about how Colombia and Rapture are intertwined, I came up with a headcanon that Songbird was a version of Booker that failed to rescue her, but instead was turned into a prototype version of a Big Daddy that Fink made using materials he had access to back in 1912. Hence why he's so dedicated and attached to her. Maybe Fink used a prototype Handyman design to create the rest of suit for that version of Booker. And as a way to get him to obey, the suit gives him regular infusions of that one vigor that allows you to change enemys into allies and since he's also her dad from another world, the combination acts as a makeshift bond resembling the ones between big daddies and little sisters but in this case it ONLY allows songbird to bond to Elizabeth.

@TuanNguyen-uz1ws

29 күн бұрын

@@wayneigoe6722 There's a reference of Songbird in Bioshock 1, do you know that?

@wayneigoe6722

29 күн бұрын

@@TuanNguyen-uz1ws I did not. Neat!

@fib900

24 күн бұрын

Don’t even have to change how they die. Every Booker drowns.

@survivordave

17 күн бұрын

@@TuanNguyen-uz1ws Less a reference and more of they used a weird sound they played in Fort Frolic in BS1 and then recontextualized it in Infinite to be Songbird's scream.

@r.margret8699

11 күн бұрын

Isn’t this in a fanfic where the premise was Songbird’s life in “reverse” starting from his death? It was the first time I encountered this headcanon. I love seeing similar ideas in the wild, it makes me think that there’s more reality to these ideas than we may have initially thought!

On Elizabeth's captivity, you forget some points that make things even creepier: they have her development documented down to when her first period started, and there are pictures of her disrobing. This is the extent of how horrible her captivity was.

@KevinHelpUs

17 күн бұрын

Yeah, I went with the teddy bear instead. Didn’t want to have to stop to explain what a menarche was on KZread.

@lillywho

17 күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs Mh, I think it's a very important point. I would have just said the bit about her period and shown the note on screen and just left the rest for people to google themselves.

Cucumber. If I had a nickel for everytime Troy Baker voiced a middle aged morally questionable anti hero man who lost his daughter then years later was send to escort a girl named Elizabeth from one place to another who becomes a sort of adobted daughter to him I would have two nickels, which isnt much but its weird that it happened twice.

@KevinHelpUs

27 күн бұрын

I know they released close enough to each other that it’s just a coincidence, but I could have listed off more but I didn’t want to spoil too much of The Last of Us. For instance, both games have us aligning with a separatist group who claim to be fighting for freedom but are actually just as bad as their oppressors.

@sayansengupta5791

27 күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs The parallels truly are uncanny.

It's a well known fact that a LOT of the preview material that we were shown never made it into the game and it was getting significant rewrites up until a little under seven months before it shipped. It's likely the highly linear game we got was heavily cut down from something that more resembled the original bioshock. That said he's a few of the changes I've had burning in the back of my head for years. 1: Elizabeth is our replacement for plasmids. In the original trailer it's shown that Elizabeth has a LOT of powers besides opening tears. Summoning yes, but also a lot of telekinesis sort of things. I imagine you'd hit the same button you'd hit to activate a power and Elizabeth would dodge into frame from nowhere in particular and do the thing, just like she does when she tosses you salts/health.. which I think was ORINGINALLY in the game as the replacement for hypos. Anyway, there's a moment in the trailer when she asks booker whether she should go all out with her powers, which ends up causing her nose to bleed. This struck me as a replacement of the little sister choice: If we make our game easier by using Elizabeth's powers it was likely that her health would deteriorate, leading towards.... who knows? 2: Wandering through a city at war. There's a BUNCH of evidence that we'd be able to explore sections of Columbia that were either Vox or Founder controlled, and that these groups would be atleast somewhat neutral towards B & E. Trying to explore the city while avoiding hostilities would have been a FANTASTIC way to sell the unique danger of infinite's world that's only hinted at by the initial landing/beach /amusement park sections. Likewise it would make for great moment to moment tactical decisions. Do I try to force my way through? Will this escilate to violence or can I talk my way out? That loot might be useful but do I want to risk making the whole of the district hostile to me/damaging my reputation with this faction? 3: Bring racism to the surface. We are supposed to be interrogating the idea of American exceptionalism the same way we interrogated objectivism in the first game. That means racism, eugenics, the white man's burden, and brutal acts of colonial genocide to make room for white settlers. Booker being partially native and his history with wounded knee should not be locked away in audiologs, they should be direct text, as they're vital for understanding WHO Booker is and why he's capable of such violence. One of the first enmies we fight in the game is the god damn KLAN and they're studying up on indigenous phrenology so that they can oust the halfbreeds in thier midst. LET US PUNCH A RACIST IN THE FACE FOR BEING RACIST, LET US QUESTION THE CONCEPT OF MANIFEST DESTINY, LET US BE ANTI-AMERICAN. I can't help but feel like these ideas were specifically left on the cutting room floor because they were worried it'd be decisive.

@Zoticus13

Ай бұрын

Also, Songbird should have been Booker. Take that extreme " I will protect her no matter what" drive and propensity for violence and drive it up to 11, graft it into a suit, and then just keep building on it. Hell, maybe lean into the 'bio' in bioshock and give Booker some steampunk prosthesis the same way the handyman have it. Have him get more as he gets hurt (something something not having a heart and needing a machine to replace it). That'd make songbird's death by drowning poetic with the baptism. Hell, have the reason songbird is called songbird because it SINGS to young Elizabeth, the same way that we see Booker sing to current her.. and maybe with a flashback to how he'd calm Anna down when she was a baby.

@preposteroussvideos

21 күн бұрын

They need to hire you NOW

@NextGenNextGen

21 күн бұрын

@@Zoticus13 I like this idea of Booker being Songbird

@MrRAGE-md5rj

13 күн бұрын

To be fair, the game does let you throw a baseball at the caster. It also does make a point about how the "anti-racists" can be just as bad as the racists, themselves.

@whisperware

12 күн бұрын

@@MrRAGE-md5rj You think throwing a baseball at a racist is bad?

This is the content that KZread needs, fixing franchises. It's easy to review a bad product and say it's well "bad" but it take really momentum rebuild it from the ground up. Most people when you ask them how they would fix it? They'd just go the easy route and say they wouldn't have done it at all. Now that just scream laziness.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

Exactly! Anyone can complain that something is bad, but if it was your job to fix it, how would you? Glad you enjoyed it!

@terancetan5503

Ай бұрын

Agreed. That's not only lazy, that's counterproductive to the argument - if you're saying that it's bad, then you should come up with a way to improve it. Saying that "I wouldn't have done it at all" contributes nothing to the argument itself and basically just translates to "because I said it sucks, it sucks". Which, in that case, would beg the question as to why anyone would have a conversation with someone so unreasonable - which most people won't. But this channel... this is something great in the making. Keep up the good work mate!

@JamesAxis13

27 күн бұрын

I agree, saying something is bad and leaving it at that not only isn’t productive, but it comes off as just pessimistic noise. This content is great because it shows that the reviewer has taken in the media, understands it, and was able to rebuild it in an interesting way. Like an AU only instead of it being cringey, it builds on the original with respect to it. It’s great to watch.

@terancetan5503

20 күн бұрын

@@JamesAxis13 I mean... this could be technically considered an AU, just a well-written one. We only consider things cringy because they rub us the wrong way.

@ExValeFor

18 күн бұрын

Really, you think writing fanfiction is somehow better than generic media criticism? Because this IS still fanfiction. No one's actually going to act on this. At least 'X thing bad' doesn't imagine a world where the creators actually listen to any of this and acts honest with itself.

11 years later and I still feel bad for what happens to Song Bird

I think Daisy going after Fink’s son in the end pissed people off because they wanted her to be an out and out good guy. She’s a revolutionary for a revolution that very clearly needs to happen. But I don’t think people understand that that’s not the story that’s being told; FFS, the hero and villain are literally the same dude.

Me realizing the rewrites were most likely to be part of the main game but were scrapped because Ken “cucumber” Levine decided to change the game like 100 times

@KevinHelpUs

18 күн бұрын

It’s wild how different everything from the cut content would have made the game!

The Cancelled Versions (From the E3 Demos) of BioShock Infinite would have been something else rather than the final version. This Game also has a Boat Load of Cut Content and Scrapped Story Elements That could have changed the game.

@wayneigoe6722

Ай бұрын

I suppose you could say Bioshock Infinite is just as much of a Shrödinger's cat as the story itself... In our world, we got a game altered and cut to pieces, but in another world, we got the game that wasn't cut and altered... Shame we don't have the same abilites as Elizabeth...

@kristerry6508

18 күн бұрын

It's crazy cuz we see that exact version of Elizabeth at the end standing with everyone else. And we see propaganda of that politician in the beginning.

@moongoalie2410

10 күн бұрын

@@wayneigoe6722 ironic given the whole concept of Bioshock’s uniqueness of third person shooting, was you having these super powers. Having the ability to use Elizabeth’s tears in action would have been a much more fluid experience, but understandably make Elizabeth, as a character, meaningless.

I'm always happy to see more people notice Bioshock: Infinite again.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

It’s definitely worth revisiting - I’m glad I did!

@FirstNameLastName-fe2tu

15 күн бұрын

Even if it was about how the story's writing was up it's own ass?

I really like the idea of Booker remembering his daughter and thinking that she is at home and needs the money to help her. Cucumber A problem I really do remember is that when you deal with alternate worlds it makes the stakes disappear. So I think there really should have been something that ties them to the original worlds, at least intending to return. Booker would want to return to the world he thinks his daughter is in, and maybe they can say some risks of being in the wrong world. So my idea would maybe be something like an object acting as a key back to the previous world, so Elizabeth thinks she can get back there once they borrow another object or person. Maybe something like the necklace you chose for her, so it becomes an important object. The reveal we get of Elzabeth's powers is that she is a living key. And maybe the deal with the Lutece twins is the explosion made them a key to everywhere and nowhere at once, so they differe more explicitly from Elizabeth as paradoxes with limits. An extra bit, maybe they could have something about Robert Lutece had the side effect of thinking he was Rosalind's twin brother from staying in another universe. Her not moving to his universe had her not affected by the altered memory, and thus could foreshadow Booker's own false memories from going to another universe. I also remember there being a difference in the Lutece twins being Robert wanted it to end, while Rosalind was more fine with the status quo. Which could be added that after being being displaced he learned that Rosalind let him believe he was her twin. He might even think she put him in a cage, and might have slight differences of opinion on a sweet cage vs. a bitter freedom. Their involvement is testing the hypothesis of what would be chosen.

@KevinHelpUs

14 күн бұрын

I really like the idea of Elizabeth being a key to get to a better world! It would have helped Burial At Sea make more sense…

@DuskyPredator

14 күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs The focus on a key also works on the idea that Fontaine built up Jack to be a key to what was locked behind Andrew Ryan's DNA, in the first Bioshock. Elizabeth as a key to the multiverse becomes a paradox following the death of her father, similar to the Lutece Twins following their explosion. Maybe thinking too hard, but you could say something like the bird, the cage and the key, and something about a key could be locking a bird in a cage, or letting it out.

@MrRAGE-md5rj

13 күн бұрын

One of the reasons I hated the game was not letting me shoot those two. I always found them just annoying.

I think that for me, what really failed in Infinites story was that Booker = Comstock wasn't really laid out very well. And it makes sense since that wasn't the plan originally and they were rewriting the game until a few months before release. Probably why Booker and Comstock don't look very alike, why Comstock looks ~20 years older, and why they sound nothing alike. At the same time, the way they handled them being the same man also forces the ending to be... well... nothing but a rotten cucumber. Fixing it doesn't seem like it would be too complicated either. My main idea stems from the main song of Columbia, "Will The Circle Be Unbroken". Instead of having the Booker-Comstock split be them making different choices at the baptism, instead, Booker gets cold feet and fails to even show up to it. Then has a kid, sells her to pay his debts, realizes his mistake, spends the next 17 years drowning his regret in a bottle, goes to Columbia to trade a girl for his debt... and fails. But he isn't killed, but rather sent back in time through a tear somehow to the baptism. From there he has a religious experience and realizes the he is destined to fail and that the lamb will always rain fire down on the mountains of man. Keeping in line with the song, this makes a circle. Booker always goes looking for his daughter, Booker is always defeated by Comstock, and Comstock always takes Bookers daughter. This not only makes Booker becoming Comstock a little more believable, but also ties the song in with the game just a little bit more. Will the circle be unbroken, or will Booker become Comstock? We can play around with this a little bit with choices we can make or through other scripted events. Its what I thought was going to happen when the Luteces had the heads-or-tails board. Every time they ask Booker heads-or-tails, regardless of what he says, it always lands on heads. Prompting a few lines out of the twins before Robert says, "There's always next time." However, this time, for our Booker, it lands on tails. The first tail out of a hundred heads on that board, followed by a few lines and a "Maybe there wont be a next time." said instead. Otherwise the rest of the story can remain relatively intact. As you say in your video, add a little more of Fitzroy and Fink to give Comstocks other antagonists more life to them. Have a little more of Booker spread throughout as well. Definitely have Songbird show up at least one more time, maybe just before/after Finkton? Perhaps even have Comstock be more of a father to Elizabeth so that she still has some deep down reservations about actually leaving Columbia with some strange man to some far off city she realistically know little about. Finally, the elephant in the room, the thing that most people have at least a mild distaste for. The ending. In the original, Booker gets drowned at the baptism in order to prevent Comstock from ever being born. However as many people have pointed out since the game launched, if there's a million million worlds then how would this actually stop Comstock? Ken Levine seems to agree since in BaS he has you play as Comstock in part one. Which means Booker died for nothing. Thanks, Ken. Here however, Booker could go out in a more interesting way. Maybe in order to get Elizabeth out safely, he can fly the flagship into the tower himself. There's a big explosion, the flagship, booker, Songbird, the bulk of the Vox and founder forces, as well as some of Columbia all get obliterated. Orrrr..... Booker can just take Elizabeth to Paris. They've successfully stopped Comstock from ever being born, there's no real need for Booker to sacrifice himself.

Minor correction : at 13:26 you claim that the movie advertised is "Return of the Jedi", but that movie is called "Le Retour du Jedi" in French. The actual name advertised is "La Revanche du Jedi" / Revenge of the Jedi, which was the original name George Lucas intended for "Return" but changed it before release. I have seen this pointed out as one of the signs that Elizabeth opens portals to other timelines.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

Yes, I was aware of that - I didn't think it was important enough to slow down the pace of the video to clarify.

@100Servings

Ай бұрын

​@@KevinHelpUsYes, but this is the Internet, and there's nothing better in life than to show off what total nerds we are. It's my favorite past time.

@TagardMC

Ай бұрын

Hi ​@@KevinHelpUs, I'm a Late Night with Seth Myers Corrections Jackal in the comments and I'm sorry for checking if this correction was made.😂

@simple-commentator-not-rea7345

29 күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs You could have at least made a quick joke that Elizabeth opened a tear to a world where Disney probably didn't acquire the rights to Star Wars and therefore didn't ruin it

@TheTragicClown6001

18 күн бұрын

@@martsvend I was a huge Star Wars nerd when this game released and noticed the translation right away, I always thought this was a great deep cut from this game. Flaws etc withstanding this Easter egg is really really good.

You did it. You made Booker a relatable, sympathetic character. I applaud you. My personal rewrite of Infinite (to make a very long story short) involves playing as Elizabeth, losing all faith in Booker when Slate reveals his crimes and Booker is unrepentant, and joining the Vox. Daisy becomes Elizabeth’s closest ally and Elizabeth is haunted by her two ‘imaginary friends’, the Lutece Twins, who help her throughout Columbia. Ultimately, she can’t prevent the trauma of Columbia or Rapture from occurring- but she can stop it from continuing. She and the various Elizabeths from every other reality form a pact to scour the multiverse and stamp out any threats like Comstock or Ryan to ensure what happened to them is never repeated. This leads into Burial at Sea, where one of these infinite Elizabeths is currently in Rapture attempting to hunt down Ryan and Fontaine. After Fontaine’s assassination, she assumes Ryan’s the only remaining target, and teams up with an activist leader named Atlas to find him. She eventually finds out who he really is when she walks in on him calling one of his informants on the surface who is watching and waiting for the signal to activate ‘the Ace in the Hole’. She and him fight, a wave style boss battle where Atlas’ rebels attack you and Atlas doesn’t step in until the end when Elizabeth is exhausted. She runs, and winds up being caught by Ryan’s police. Part two has Elizabeth in Persephone, begrudgingly helping Sofia Lamb in order to escape and find the quantum particle that will allow her to open a tear and leave. Without that particle, which is sort of like an anchor that allows the Elizabeth collective to open tears, she’s stuck here, and it’s too dangerous for another Elizabeth to be sent in because two of them in the same reality would be disastrous. So Elizabeth finds the particle, making her way through Siren Alley and Fontaine Futuristics to gather the tools needed to repair it. But before she can leave, she receives a tear-vision of Sofia Lamb escaping Persephone through the same path Elizabeth used. And thanks to her precognition, she knows exactly what’s going to happen next. So she books it to the Kashmir, where she is forced to make an impossible choice: stop Lamb from killing Delta and kidnapping Eleanor, someone Elizabeth sees herself in, or search the party for Ryan, her original target. If you choose to stop Lamb, Elizabeth attempts to divert Delta and Eleanor away from the restaurant and nearly gets killed. If you choose to search the party, you find Diane McClintock lamenting the fact that her lover, Ryan, is working in Hephaestus and leaving her to celebrate alone. The Kashmir is bombed, and Elizabeth nearly dies. Either way, the Elizabeth collective manages to extract our Elizabeth just before she dies, and perform surgery to keep her alive. Elizabeth mourns the fact that she failed her mission and that her actions only made things worse- but the other Elizabeths show her visions of the future of that version of Rapture. Because Elizabeth escaped Persephone, Sofia Lamb did too, which allows the events of Bioshock 2 to happen, potentially saving countless Little Sisters. And because she worked alongside Atlas, he was able to give the go-ahead to lure Jack into Rapture, allowing Bioshock 1 to happen and, again, potentially saving the Little Sisters. They show her visions of the bad timelines as well as the good ones, and the Elizabeths all agree that they can’t hold a timeline’s hand and force it to turn out how they want, but they can give them the chance to become something better. And that choice, the choice to become better or do something else, is what truly matters, because that’s what they escaped Columbia for.

Cucumber So there are multiple plot-holes in this game, but I'm only going to focus on 1. So in Columbia 3 the reason why Booker joined the Vox was because Comstock had Elizabeth moved from Monument Island to Comstock House and Booker needed an army to go rescue her. He joins up with Fitzroy and Slate and Booker and Slate Burn down the Hall of Heroes, but shortly die in battle afterwards, Booker having failed to storm Comstock House in order to rescue Elizabeth. However, when the Booker and Elziabeth we follow enter Columbia 3 from Columbia 2, the game completely forgets that there are 2 Elizabeths being present in this universe after Fitzroy dies and just pretents that we're back in Columbia 1as evidenced by how Comstock behaves during the cutescene where he revives Lady Comstock. If the game remembered that we were still in Columbia 3 than Comstock would have said something along the lines off "Well well well, if it isn't... Hey wait a sec! How are you, Booker, still alive after my forces killed you and how are you, Eizabeth with him and with me at the same time? Unless you 2 aren't native to THIS universe, which both a blessing and a curse" during the resurection cutscene. And you know what would have been cool; having Songbird be the penultimate boss and having a fully brainwashed and fully juiced up Elizabeth be the final boss. Alternitively, we could just have Our heroes NOT hop universes and instead have the Vox supply them with weapons by pulling them from diffrent universes. Our heroes then join the Vox in their revolution, but desert the moment Fitzroy starts excuting people who don't join up.

I dont like the ending of the base game tbh. They are right that they have to kill Booker at the baptism to prevent all of the Comstock realities from being made but the booker they kill is one that already went through the baptism, and lets just say that they went back in time to when Booker had the baptism, they would just be killing a random Booker. If the Elizabeths wanted to fix everything, they'd have to travel back in time to that moment (no hopping reality stuff either) and kill him there, the way they did it in the game makes no sense

Honestly? I don't know how I'd fix BioShock Infinite. There are so many problems I personally have with it. I suppose the closest I have to based on your own rules is I would give us back the weapon system we had in BioShock 1 and 2

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

I learned to like the two-weapon system in Infinite, it did force me out of my comfort zone when my favorite guns weren't available, but the fact that they brought the old weapon wheel back in Burial At Sea means enough people didn't appreciate the change.

@SpitFyre37

7 күн бұрын

​@@KevinHelpUsI appreciate the idea of the two weapon system, but in practice I found it pretty insufficient at making me as a player use different weapons when my preferred ones weren't readily available. Furthermore, the two weapon system killed the visually unique weapon upgrades that 1 and 2 had, since you weren't using the same weapons during the whole game. Yes, weapon upgrades are still present, but they're primarily just stat changes and none of them affect the look of the guns, which is really a shame. I think a better solution would be to keep the weapon wheel and upgrades, and instead simply heavily limit the ammunition for each gun. You're still scavenging around the battlefield, but instead of for more copies of guns, it's for ammo to use the guns you've been upgrading throughout your journey.

Cucumber I couldn't tell you all of the changes that I'd make, because to list them all would reveal that I would basically have written and made a completely different game, but I will list some of the major things I'd have changed: 1.) Booker doesn't arrive on Secession Day, he arrives the evening before (this fixes a plothole with the timetables at the start of the game). He would also have to do actual detective work, talking to people and investigating things in order to get information, no more arrow pointing where to go or faux puzzles like lock picks or "wait a minute, that card." 2.) Elizabeth gradually gains a FUBAR quantum aura around her the more that she uses tears outside of mandatory interactions, resulting in her potentially causing a reconciliation sickness effect to any NPC that gets near her if Booker abuses her abilities. This actually has a passive effect on Booker narratively, causing him to falsely remember Anna and believing that she's back in New York, with his landlady. 3.) Other partners besides Elizabeth: Slate, Fitzroy or one of her people, a Handyman, etc. This would be because certain levels would have different objectives based on what you did the prior level (so for instance, you could convince Slate that there was another way besides death or letting him get caught, lighting the fire back inside of him and leading to a different version of the First Lady scene where they decide to go meet Fitzroy. Then you'd get an alternate objective for Finkton and Slate would be your partner for a while.) 4.) Comstock is a conman who tries to bargain with Booker like in your rewrite, but he becomes increasingly more desperate and erratic up until the confrontation at the end. Not because he wants to keep Elizabeth from Booker, but because he knows that if Booker touches him or gets too close to him, it will basically be the quantum equivalent of detonating a nuclear bomb. 5.) There's a third, hidden faction in Columbia-- Marlowe and his Vigor Junkies, which restores an element of Columbia that was meant to be but scrapped and downplayed in the final game. Basically Marlowe invented the Vigors with Fink, and when it was discovered that overconsumption caused physical and psychological mutations, Fink tried to have him killed to both cover it up and take control of the whole operation. Now the disgraced chemist seeks to find a cure for the monsters that he made from the back alleys and slums of Columbia and that's where Booker comes in. This would add a sort of little sister/big daddy element back into the game, as vigor junkies can be killed to get the salts their body produces, or they could be cured with certain items, which would please Marlowe and cause him to extend his services to safely power up Booker.

@KevinHelpUs

29 күн бұрын

Love these! Especially the Comstock changes. SOMETHING to show he uses his knowledge about what’s happening to his advantage.

Cucumber: I liked how Bioshock was a representation of the two types of utopias, and how they’re actually dystopias. Rapture is about a world with 100% freedom. Columbia is about a society so structured around law/religion and it has 0% freedom. Both are extremely different and yet the end result is the same…oppression of the people and society collapsing. Rapture is in the ocean and Columbia is in the sky, representing extremes. I love this because I shows how “coming back to earth” is both literal and figurative.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

Cucumber! They did do a great job showing the dangers of ideology and how it can turn two seeming-utopias into nightmares. Even if some things could have been better, the BioShock games are unflinching in that message.

@cewkins721

21 күн бұрын

So true!

8:48 " ... so we stop walking through Disney Klan ..." Hey hey hey! You can't just say that and move on like it's nothing!

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

We’ve got a lot to cover! No time to waste!

Regardless of what you think of the game story, you gotta admit Songbird is probably one of the worst 'guardians' enemies ever, mf almost killed Elizabeth than saved her lmao

Daisy being blood thirsty makes sense though and the game equating both sides really makes no sense unless we see a future world with The Vox in charge. One side oppressed while the other was a reaction to the oppression

@TitusCastiglione1503

3 күн бұрын

@@Marika_ER If you think the Vox *wouldn’t* oppress anyone who they disliked once they got power, I urge you to read real history. This stuff happens, and it can get ugly.

@Marika_ER

3 күн бұрын

@@TitusCastiglione1503 that's called speculation. Read what I already said

@TitusCastiglione1503

3 күн бұрын

@@Marika_ER Read what I said. Look up how these things tend to go in real life. It’s not pretty for anybody.

I appreciate all the thought and work you put into trying to fix BI's story. Bravo! Have a like and a cucumber for it! That being said, I feel that the restrictions you put on yourself with regards to "not changing important plot points", while understandable, are severely limiting you to what can - and arguably needs to - be changed: The ending. Because the ending of the game proves that the writers (Ken Levine and whoever assisted him) didn't understand their own story, as it completely contradicts the entire premise of the game: The multiverse. If every choice leads to two different universes, then drowning Booker at the end achieves absolutely nothing. Because for every Booker that reaches that point (which, in a multverse, would be an infinite amount of them, as seen in the lighthouse scene) and chooses to be drowned, there is a Booker who refuses the drowning. In the end that just splits the timeline in three instead of two: An infinite set of universes with Bookers who refused the drowning, an infinite set of universes with Comstocks who were not drowned and an infinite set of universes where they both were strangled by Elizabeth. The goal of stopping Comstock before he existed would not be achieved (or at least just partially). That being said, it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that the ending was so poorly thought-through, given that it wasn't actually the original ending of the game. It was just cobbled together on short notice from all the assets they still had available. I don't know for sure what the story of the original ending entailed, but whatever was included in there, it offended one of Irrational Games' employees who was deeply religious. They threatened to quit the company over this and Ken Levine decided to change the ending in order to keep them. This happened merely three months before launch. Also, it was pretty much pointless in the end, as all but 15 members of Irrational Games were fired less than a year later and the company (and its successor Ghost Story Games) never released anything ever again. I hope it was worth butchering Infinite for, Ken. But we can make some educated guesses about what the original ending was, given that Burial at Sea was presumably already in pre-production by the time the rewrite happened, and its story would therefore be based on the original ending. That would explain why Elizabeth has no powers in the DLC and why she keeps seeing Booker appearing and talking to her in Part 2, similar to how the Luteces appeared in the main game. I strongly assume that the original ending didn't have Elizabeth become omnipotent, and what was eventually handwaved away as her "hallucinations" were genuine appearences by some version of Booker. It also explains how Elizabeth is able to return to the "Fitzroy event" in a timeline that, according to the rewritten ending, shouldn't exist anymore.

@KevinHelpUs

21 күн бұрын

I’ll take the cucumber! And thanks for watching the whole thing! Agree that not changing major plot points holds me back a bit (it’s going to be a challenge when we do The Last of Us 2), but it does keep me grounded and helps me show that there was a better story to tell within the framework that the original game established, even if that story’s resolution is a bit flawed, like the ending you mentioned.

Cucumbers are the worst, that being said... Bioshock infinite is something far worse than cucumber, it's ALMOST great and that's far worse than just being bad. Here's hope for Judas, now that Ken is going at his own pace.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

He certainly can’t claim he was rushed! (And thanks for watching the whole thing!)

I adore how you present your videos. You take such care and depth in showcasing the stories we are presented, editing and explaining perfectly for old fans and newcomers alike, before launching into what you would change. It gives viewers a well-paced foundation of knowledge before revealing your fixes. Very entertaining and interesting.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

Thank you so much for saying so! This one especially was a labor of love. There’s so much greatness in this game that I think it’s a worthy conversation-starter. Really appreciate the comment.

I would take some more time in the beach area and have Booker enjoy a nice cucumber spritzer while watching Elizabeth dance.

I've beat Bioshock 2 and Infinite multiple times, and Bioshock 1 once. So I can't get spoiled now.

Kevin saves the day again. Now this is MY cannon version. Levine can piss off.

One thing that I've always liked about infinite was Colombia not only was it a good decent mirror from rapture it's practically the reason why no government especially the United States cared about rapture they had their own City to deal with.

@Datttsnake

12 күн бұрын

Yes but Columbia only exists if Rapture doesn't they're alternate universes to one another. They can't exist at the same time in the same world.

Glad you mentioned how the game was missing a Frank Fontaine because as much we all like Andrew Ryan it’s more interesting to see how their ideology can bring the worst of people to the table.

@jamesfirecat6652

8 күн бұрын

@@tylerlong5112 Not only that, but it showed how someone who believes in a rancid ideology can’t always control everyone who views the rancid nature of said ideology as a path to power. Fontaine didn’t believe in Ryan’s vision, but he knew how to play the game that Ryan had created better than Ryan could. Ryan was defeated by his own love of free markets in a way that it doesn’t really feel like Comstock was defeated by his racism.

Youre not gonna unscrew infinite without changing the majority of the ending, they start acting on weird certain feelings that seem to come out of nowhere, like Comstock must die, first Elizabeth then Booker It should be more of a sacrifice rather than an unknowing damning of himself, and it feels out if character for Elizabeth to just do it

This game, for all it's flaws, has a special place in my heart. I first played it around the time I got a kitten and ten years later, she still gets super happy hearing the barbershop quartet version of God Only Knows. It's her favorite song

@KevinHelpUs

2 күн бұрын

It’s a great song. I really wanted to use it, but didn’t want to get copyright-flagged.

Theres something I would never change, bioshock infinite is the first game that ends with a murder suicide and is actually happy

It was weird to me that the "ghost" of her mother was like a (at least partially) theoretical version of her? Made up in Elizabeth's head? It was both a story breaking idea to me and an interesting idea for something else entirely. Like a horror movie. BIG EYEROLL MOMENT at "Why?" "Because it does." lol sounded more like an admission that it's always just gonna boil down to the OG Bioshock. This game was OKAY but this story just wasn't for me.

@haesome8613

13 күн бұрын

@@billyb4688 Still one of my favorite games of all time, its simply gorgous despite the story flaws

@billyb4688

13 күн бұрын

@@haesome8613 I really had a good time the SECOND time through, but the first time I ever played it, I was hypercritical because I really wanted it to the nail the landing, despite still thinking it isn't perfect, it is still a very fun game.

This was the best summary of this game I've ever seen on KZread, congratulations on the excellent work. Cucumber.

@KevinHelpUs

27 күн бұрын

Cucumber! Thanks so much, I’ve wanted to cover this game for a long time, and really wanted to do it justice. Appreciate you watching until the end, so glad you enjoyed it.

Infinite is a great game. But not a great *Bioshock* game. I honestly wish they wouldve done a bioshock game set during the Rapture Civil War instead of Columbia. I like Columbia, but it doesnt hit the same as Rapture. But Infinite has so many good quotes “God forgives, but im only a prophet, so I dont have to…” “Sometimes if you dont draw first, you dont draw at all.” “Are you a tin man or a real soldier?”

Bro after the first hour I had completely forgotten that our end goal was to fix the plot 💀💀💀 I was just along for the ride atp

Personally I'd rather have Infinite and the original Bioshock as separate. A "Quantum Shock" so to speak

A video with all the cut story elements and mechanics put together to fix a new story and plot holes would be great 😢I wish this game could get a redo

I don't have a complete picture how I would "fix" the story. But I feel like using the tars I feel like one should "Prepare for unforeseen consequences." As Comstock has demonstrated with his technology to also open tars. As such each time we go to another line we bring another Comstock to the field fighting over Elizabeth. Furthermore to show that one can't simply run away from their problems on top of your problems chasing after you quite literally in this case also make it the further away you get from your line the more your line of origin is trying to pull you back in this could be explain as when you left your reality you left a gap in mass for it while over filling whatever new reality you go to thus the new world is trying to push you out while the old is pulling you back and this only gets harder. So going to the first world no problem some active effort on Elizabeth's part should keep you stable going to the third world now Elizabeth is feeling the pressure and her power are more restricted. Going to the fourth world and it's too much for her and she'll slip and you and her get pulled all the way back to original world after something like 20 mins or so. Next I'd say this is a great time to open the world up for us to explore it a bit more especially during the revolution fight. Heck we could even have the different comstocks confront each other and start fighting before they make an alliance to find and capture all three Elizabeths and help to kill each of their bookers or they could just try to cut each other's throats. Side note it is currently 2:10AM as I'm writing this so please forgive me if I'm a bit sloppy as of the time of writing this.

@theDemolisher13

7 күн бұрын

OK now I'm awake. Thank you for the like. Also now that I can think more straight we should probably add another 3 or 5 acts at least to deal with all of the new madness happening. Furthermore it just dawned to me Elizabeth and Booker are from a different timeline from Comstock so technically there's a 5th line for us to consider and that would be line 0 in actuality where Elizabeth should be at her most powerful in and funnily enough it's also the line that has the least enemies stationed in it unless they try to plant a trap for her there. You'll defiantly want to use some visual examples to help people keep track which line they're in and how far away they are from their original lines.

It would be cool to see an open world game with infinite's sky hooks

Heart this comment, would you kindly?

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

New Goal: Heart This Comment

@nuxxy_

15 күн бұрын

😂

@callumdonington2227

8 күн бұрын

A MAN CHOOSES

This is such a fun series! I know it’s a lot of work for you and I just wanted you to know your hard work is appreciated and enjoyed

The game should've had a feature where you can manually switch between universes, let me explain: So the whole "aquire guns" plot and switching dimensions could've been spiced up with the few decisions that we made (that were ultimately useless in the actual game). Let's say you don't kill slate in your playthrough. Well, in that universe, the police are busy with him and cut corners by just killing the gunsmith. Slate alive = dead gunsmith. So you need a gunsmith, but in universe 2 slate is dead and so the police had enough time to lock down all the equipment. Gunsmith alive, but can't use equipment. The quite ambitious gameplay feature could have players navigate various dimensions to solve different puzzles. Your choice determines your original dimension and sets you down a specific quest line to achieve your goal.

This is probably your best video so far. As a request, it would be cool to see how you would fix Metroid Other M's story, considering how much context was lost in translation.

@KevinHelpUs

21 күн бұрын

Oh man, I’ve never played Other M, but it would be a fun one. I’d like to play some of the modern Metroid games (I think I stopped after Super), but I’d need to track down a Wii…

Songbird was a let down. He was underutilized and should’ve been a persistent threat throughout the game.

I like your version of the game. I only ever considered rewriting Daisy's murder. I think in order to get Elizabeth to kill it should be Fink. Say Daisy was confused but happy to see Booker, about to execute Fink she lowers her guard to talk to Booker at which point Fink gets the drop on them all; knocking out Booker and struggling to kill Daisy until Elizabeth kills Fink to save Daisy. Daisy moves to get all of the children out of harm's way because she's NOT a rabid killer bent on revenge giving Booker and Elizabeth the ship. Elizabeth still freaks out because even though Fink was a deplorable human being she still killed him. Even though he was about to kill Daisy, Elizabeth still took a life. Things are no longer black and white for her; sometimes a good person does something bad, but is it right to take a life just because someone is evil? If so, how evil? Who decides? Wouldn't Fink's son say Elizabeth is evil? Does Elizabeth deserve to die? etc... I just really hate how they portrayed Daisy and the fact that they tried to "fix" it by framing it as a "noble sacrifice" is just salt in the wound.

Stumbled across your channel, and I am very glad that I did. I don't see a lot of video game KZreadrs talk about story fixers like you did. Good job. If you take requests, one game that I thought had good potential but the story held it back from being really great was Assassin's Creed 3.

I like this rewrite, only 2 things I'd add is; 1. For this narrative to work better, the journey through Columbia should include a few moments of Booker being cold and deprived of humanity. It would add further challenge for us to have faith in his future, on top of also us finding out he's destined to be corrupt. And 2. That the gameplay and level design was more like the one from the original trailers. I realise that this would have been pushing the limitations of the game engine back then, to make Columbia this grand, but lemme cook. Still, in the grand scheme of things, the first Bioshock, when contextualising it from beginning to end, ultimately had a theme about choice, so it makes sense that Infinite's theme, from beginning to end, all things considered, would have been about faith. Hell, this narrative could have also been used in Burial at Sea to show us what happens when Elizabeth loses faith and becomes just as cynical as Booker, or what she accomplishes when she has faith and forgives Booker. It would certianly nuance the game more and make it less about 'religion le bad'. Although, talking so much about Infinite, I'm certianly left wondering, what was or rather what should have been the theme in Bioshock 2?

infinite's story is either the surface of neptune or a polished dog turd, and since i live in this reality i'll say i played this game but remember nothing of it and (now) im glad i don't :v

Are you going to tackle the DLC aswell?

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

If this video does well, sure! Because ho boy, there’s a lot of wrong in that DLC.

@Kain01able

Ай бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs What's wrong with making Elizabeth responsible for everything and ignoring Bioshock 2? /s

@firestaranimationsofficial

24 күн бұрын

@@Kain01able It takes away a lot of agency and responsibility from the characters in Rapture. The pair bond is no longer Suchong or Gil's fault, but Elizabeth's. The original recording and subsequent recordings in Bioshock 2 had established everything perfectly. With BaS, it becomes a mess. Then, there's intervening to save Atlas and his crew. When you first hear about the attack in Bioshock, it's one of the biggest red flags the game throws in our faces to question our allegiance to Atlas. He and his followers raided Kashmir and we personally see the end of that disaster. It makes you doubt if he's the good guy. In BaS, Elizabeth's forced intervention makes them feel incompetent. They only got out because of her and I hate that idea. If you want to make him look stupid, don't make a woman the central reason for it. Instead, show off his short-sightedness and impatience as a con artist. That's _believable_ . The other reason is that it just feels like a poorly placed Deus Ex. All it did was inflate Elizabeth's little martyr pedestal at the cost of a wonderful villain. Not worth it. The biggest problem is the ending of BaS and the forced canonicity of the good ending of Bioshock 1. In Bioshock 1, your ending felt like a personal achievement for Jack. Whether he took the neutral path, the bad path, or the good path it was the freedom from his enslavement that mattered. In the neutral and bad ending, he caved to world and cruelty around him. He might've been freed from his brainwashing, but he was still chained to the cycle of violence. In the good ending, he make an active choice to be better than the world he inhabits. To break free entirely and be the father his own father refused and was denied the chance to be. *_He breaks free on his own merits!_* But not with BaS existing. Now, his achievements are Elizabeth's choice. His freedom isn't being free at all, but being moved by a bigger pawn than Atlas. And now all of the torture he goes through is on *Elizabeth's* hands, not Atlas. In one poor writing decision, Jack has been given a bigger controller and Atlas has been freed of the very decision that most players found out about and rallied against him for, happy to see him suffer. Stupidest decision ever. It was nice to Rapture again with a better engine and graphics, but it wasn't worth the stupid retcons that shatter the established lore of Rapture.

@MrRAGE-md5rj

13 күн бұрын

​@KevinHelpUs one of the biggest reasons I hated the DLC was the way they introduced that version of "Booker." He accidentally killed his daughter, so he ran away to rapture to escape his guilt. Somehow, that makes him worse than grown-up Elizabeth who LITERALLY TRAPPED AND BURNED the little sisters in their pipes, even after he warned her not to! And then her & the stupid twins lecture you while you're dying. Screw that intro, man.

Great vid! Love the way you intersperse the game footage and your narration. Very well done!

The problem with bioshock infinite, or your rewrite, is the fact we're dealing a multiverse. The is an infinity of Columbia, Booker, Comstock and Elizabeth. Any world we're in is meaningless because we can always leave it for an other one. Any time we fail, we can be replaced by an other Booker. And everytime Elizabeth drown Booker, there is an Elizabeth that don't do it. Heck there is even an infinite of world where none of theses character, location and event exist. There is even an infinity of Columbia where Fitzroy, Comstock and Fink managed to get along and create a litteral utopia. We can save New York, kill Comstock, destroy Columbia, there will always be a reality where they exist and do evil. The only thing that can really matter for us is our Booker and our Elisabeth. I love Bioshock Infinite, but it's clear it struggle because of that infinity aspect. I think if we want to fix Infinite, we need to actually get rid of the Infinite. And to achieve that, we need three main rules: 1)Only the Luteces can travel freely across the multiverse. 2)Elizabeth/Anna can only open tear between her original world (which is also Booker's world) and Comstock world. 3)No time travel for Elizabeth/Anna either. The Luteces worked with one of the Comstock, in one of the Columbia, in one of the infinite reality that exist. They get in contact with other, help Comstock buy the child of Booker, then have their accident/assassination attempt and basically ascend to godhood. It happens and didn't happens in an infinity of universe and timeline. In some of thoses realities, Anna/Elizabeth loose her finger, being in two universes, two realities at the same time, allowing her to travel between theses two specifics realities. That way, we do not have an infinity of universe to save, but at best just two and we also have a genuine connection between Booker and Elizabeth. Only one Book can be her father, only one can save her. This is where the Luteces try to perform a little experiment, sending Booker to save his daughter and watch how it unfold. Act 1 pretty much happens the same way it did or the way your rewrite it. I think however, that, from act 2, to play on the multivers thing by alternating between New York and Columbia, between the seedy streets of New York and the paradisiac appearance of Columbia. We can even use the Vox Populi and some fancy New York scenery to invert the contrast. Two important thing, however: Elizabeth cannot stay in her original reality because of the Syphon and Booker is amnesiac, because of his initial interdimensional travel. So both of them fail to realise the New York they are visiting is their reality and basically dismiss it as a mere dream, a mere moment of respite where they don't have to be in Columbia. They are led to believe Comstock world is their world and that they need to stop him. Act 2 will also establish strong bond between the Vox Populi and Booker and Elizabeth. By act 3, everything is crashing down, with Comstock trying to invade his own New York and the Vox Populi going full revolution mode. From your final confrontation with Comstock and the element gathered in the previous acts, Booker and Elizabeth are slowly driven to the truth. Even as you kill Comstock and destroy the Syphon, the attack on New York continue. You are then presented with a choice. =>Booker leaves that reality and go back to his with Elizabeth, but also their friend in the Vox Populi, which mean dooming them and the rest of that reality to Columbia tyrany. =>Stay and fight alongside the Vox Populi, but Elizabeth die and Booker is left stranded in Comstock reality. I think that version gives more meaning to the realities you go through and dive a bit into Plato's cave myth. What is reality? What value should you give to the cave? Would you sacrifice what is most precious to you for the cave?

The reason vigors don't fit Columbia could because of the change in the plot. The vigors were always supposed to be created by Fink, but many things suggest that his role in the plot was reduced, early on he was supposed to be the equivalent of Andrew Ryan and Columbia had a connection with Liechtenstein (manufacturing country)and was more art nouveau and darker like og BioShock, there is even a completed model of an elderly Fink in Handyman armor who was supposed to be a boos.

I think the game loses me with the constant tearing into other versions of the same reality. You lose the connections you had with the original world you were in, and are now fighting against an individual who only knew the previous version of your character. Also, Elizabeth is essentially just a cheat code to give you an advantage against a fearsome foe, instead of you doing the work to tear it down. It just makes the finale seem *unearned.* The ending twist is nice at least, if it didn’t have all that filler from Elizabeth beforehand…

1. best intro ever "Everyones dying for MY sins" 2. I am Ken Levine's confirmed biggest fan so im sooooo interested to see this vid and get other takes

@KevinHelpUs

24 күн бұрын

Thank you! I am REALLY proud of that intro, it's not just a good tagline, it's thematically accurate. Hope Ken Levine's biggest fan enjoyed the rest of it!

I really enjoyed this game when it came out and have been wanting to replay it only to encounter "God Only Knows" again. That said, I agree with a lot of the criticisms, especially the lack of follow-through on certain moral choices. Your fixes seem dead-on (especially Fink's obvious interest in not breaking trade relations with the US, think of the cucumbers!) But I think I'd have liked if we got to see (or even play!) Booker's version of Wounded Knee in the beginning, perhaps as a nightmare before he's woken up by a crying Anna. Then, when we see the Columbia "Hall of Presidents" style exhibit, it would have added that extra dimension of wonder around whose version of events was the most correct.

I still remember coming off from bioshock 2 straight into infinite and being confused and frustrated (with both story and gameplay), and I quickly put down the game for a while. It wasn't until later after hearing mostly good things about it, that I tried it again. I won't lie, the pacing really threw me, and I hated some characters that I felt like I was 'supposed' to like. Idk, it felt like a mess to me until toward the end where I was finally starting to understand the story. Great story with a fun premise, but told in a messy way imo. I would have loved to see this version ngl.

The plot twist of the game is so crazy that it makes the game. but its kinda a pumch in the gut that dewitt cant live with elizabeth or ana(anna?) and instead it just ends

I wonder if Schrödinger rolls over in his grave every time his box cat gets mentioned.

@KevinHelpUs

4 күн бұрын

He does and he doesn't.

I really loved your version of BioShock Infinite, I played it alongside BioShock 1 and 2 in high school. Even with all the issues I still have with Infinite, I still love it. Thinking about BioShock still gets me emotional. BTW, I loved your analogy of having Comstock be Jesus, but having Fink be Judas, but that also led me to make another connection. If Comstock is Andrew Ryan, then Fink is Frank Fontaine!

Yeah once the game started telling me that these people shouldnt fight racism cause thats just as bad, i dipped out lol

Just like terminator, there are only 2 bioshocks.

@madquack6449

28 күн бұрын

@@stephenattwood1992 terminator 3 it’s pretty decent, salvation wasn’t that bad, but everything after that is a complete shit show.

@jonaswest6993

23 күн бұрын

Ken Levine being salty he didn't make the master piece that is BioShock 2

@Streetcleanergaming

14 күн бұрын

@madquack6449 yeah I loved 1-3 they were all great but they should've ended it at 3

@MrRAGE-md5rj

13 күн бұрын

Bioshock 2 is a better Bioshock than Infinite.

@jamesfirecat6652

8 күн бұрын

@@MrRAGE-md5rjThis is the correct take. I have played through Bioshock 2 a half a dozen times, including one “perfect run” where I never died/needed to use a vita chamber from the start of the game to the end on hard difficulty. I played through Bioshock Infinite on normal mode once, played through about 3/4ths of the way on hard, then I just couldn’t bring myself to play anymore. I think the biggest sin is that the enemies have too much health. In 2 on the hardest difficulty an upgraded river gun (your “standard weapon” will kill a lead head splicer in one headshot. In infinite you need two headshots with a carbine to kill most of the standard enemies. Thus, combat feels padded, the regenerating shield makes it feel like it is more about finding a safe place to heal rather than needing to kill as fast as possible, the two weapon system feels horribly confining as opposed to being able to always have all the possible weapons on hand and switching to whichever one you think will best suit the situation so long as you can conserve your ammo…

I always throw the ball at the couple because I am supposed to be an early 1900's American, didn't know you would encounter the couple if you didn't throw it.

@KevinHelpUs

11 күн бұрын

They give you a piece of gear the way Fink’s assistant does. I haven’t tried a run where I refuse to throw yet, not sure if there’s a third variant.

@TheBayzent

10 күн бұрын

Definitely trying it in my next run.

@Marika_ER

10 күн бұрын

Not everyone was racist back then

I know that this would be such a deviation, but I always wanted to see a multiple ending idea of Infinite. Perhaps, we could have Elizabeth actually make it to Paris with Booker (I know, the DLC sort of did it) as a "good" ending, one where Booker takes her to New York and dies, and possibly one where Elizabeth lets her powers loose and takes over Comstock's full legacy. All of these are kind of glimpsed, but the prospect of consequences for our choices in an infinity of universes just seems... so wasted on the final cut. Above said, which would of course make the game significantly longer, I have always loved Infinite. But... I guess I just hate having a lack of agency in how such a story works out. Even if the choices are all illusory.

@woldemunster9244

23 күн бұрын

"Choices" aren't illusory, they are worse than a quicktime-event in RE6. This is the proto-multiverse that Marvel and every other lazy-written (now) dead franchise copied from. Thank gud for DOOM 2016, it's been downhill ever since. :D

Vox Populi wouldn’t be the same, that wasn’t both sidesing. They’d be worse, anyone who has ever little historical knowledge knows that.

@KevinHelpUs

26 күн бұрын

What historical knowledge are you referencing?

@bannedmann4469

26 күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs Every Marxist, Communist, Socialist regime ever.

@asscheeks3212

23 күн бұрын

​@@KevinHelpUs literally the French, Germans, Russians, and Chinese. Jesus christ I'm Asain and I'm educating a white man on commies..

@MrRAGE-md5rj

13 күн бұрын

​​@@KevinHelpUsI don't know what exactly he's referring to, but perhaps the French Revolution, the empire of Napoleon, and the "synthesis" formed from the best of both psrts msy be an example. That said, the death of a tyrant with no just ruler to replace him will always give rise to another.

@breecegriffith5896

9 күн бұрын

Yeah, that’s where I had to dip out of the video. Go look throughout history, those that are oppressed can tend to be, but are not always just as worse than their oppressors once they are freed. It’s not both siding, it’s just the reality of the situation.

My biggest problem with Infinite here is that after playing Burial at sea, I was felt an overall disappointment especially when Elizabeth in the main game is portrayed as being smart, knows the deeper understanding of parallel universes yet burial at sea, she sounds like a fumbling oaf where not even Booker hallucination had to tell her that "she is a constant and variable". Though in the end, the story of the DLCs are a whole lot of nothing, and Elizabeth is entirely stealth based so that is annoying.

The only bad part of Infinite is Elizabeth's character change in Rapture dlc

god damn this video really does try to change the story but keeps the integrity of the game intact. good stuff man. your variation is better as it removes loose ends instead of wrapping them up or tying them off.

cucumber. i think i would try to fix the “the only difference between Comstock and Fitzroy is the way you spell the name." plot is by having Daisy not be too violent at the end. i think the scalping could have been replace with dead bodies and that would lessen the impact of the killing. REMEMBER no revolution can peacful, so i do think the killing is justified to some expent but they didn't need to do it so alarming to see

@KevinHelpUs

2 күн бұрын

True, there was no way to revolt in Columbia without violence. Letting Daisy’s passion for change shine through more instead of making her bloodthirsty would have improved things.

This is a great piece! ...While I loved Burial at Sea, I thought the main game went off the rails the moment it started going into alternate realities. All dramatic tension and stakes they'd built so meticulously were gone, never to return. So you're just in a random and arbitrary world after that, still trying to feel like the endgame matters. And while the end itself is cool, the third act of the gameplay story on is this deflated thing you can't really put any stock in. A drastically different world that you don't know how to feel about. Like why would I go to a different universe where Lin is alive to get guns to secure my airship... when I can't get back, and I don't know anything about the Vox or the airship (etc.) in the other universe? The game is trying to carry the same motivation where it doesn't work. Why should Shantytown affect me when I don't know what it was like in Columbia 1? Did Columbia 1 for sure even have a Shantytown? The entire thing needed a more early and upfront discussion of what Elizabeth could see via tears and alternative worlds. They needed to establish constants. There’s always a Comstock and Fink. Always a Daisy. Etc. Booker telling Daisy 3 he did what Daisy 1 wanted makes no sense. The constants can't resonate within these variables. And it's weird to me that Levine and the devs didn't think that would be the case. It's weird that they never saw it as problematic that they were saying those who seek to overthrow fascists and racists are just as bad. Such a bad decision on their part. It's weird they thought they'd tell the history of the Comstocks and Daisy in a different reality than we started in, with no way to tell if that answer would have been the same in Columbia 1. It's weird that Booker can suddenly be put back in Columbia 3 after Elizabeth says she can't do that. And it’s weird that Elizabeth delivers the twist rather than Comstock, supplemented perhaps by the Luteces. Elizabeth should have been reeling together with Booker. Comstock was the only living player who actually knows what’s going on. To prevent him being the one to blow their minds is a bad choice, as in the game, Comstock is aloof for no reason. One of the top 5 best intro sequences ever, though. Up there with the original game.

Cucumber and honestly I couldn't say how I'd fix this game. I'd throw in a nod to bioshock two sure but thats it. Haven't played this game since it came out. But thank you for taking the time to make this video. You're awesome 😃

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

YOU’RE awesome! (And thanks for watching!)

or maybe , bioshock infinite was about Rapture Civil War and all this stuff was gone and was easy , and maybe 4 was about how Rapture was before the fall and to show us how f.frontaine fake his death, idk gust my opinion , that now doesn t matter , because now it can t be done.

I'm glad my favorite Bioshock is still getting coverage!! I wish we received/ will receive more Bioshock. For me pacing is a main issue.

Ah Bioshock Infinite. It's been *checks steam* over ten years since I last played this game. Came back for Burial at Sea and never returned. I do remember my reaction to the ending of the main story. I said it was "Trying to be smarter than it had any right to be." Looking back, it felt so smug. As for BaS? Totally unsatisfying conclusion. It felt like a double-barreled fuck you to me. I don't even remember what set my back up against it. I just remember feeling insulted.

Although I love Infinite the way it is, I wish there was a way to remake the game with your fixes.

So now i get why comments got cucumburs in them.... Great analysis! i am very lucky to find this video in my recommendations, i did watch a few critiques inb4 about the bioshock franchise, mainly the ones by Monty zander (great content creator, would recommend you check him out), with that being said i do like the adjustments made to the plot to fix it up a bit, its very interesting to see that you limited yourself to only make changes that would not impact the main elements of the game as doing otherwise would just rewrite the thing in your own imagination that some people would not agree with, i like the different approach to how daisy's scene would be handled as it provides more reasoning and dialogue to make it justifiable, changing Comstocks personality and addressing the racism issue more seriously with relation to real history might have saved the game from the backlash it got in that specific topic. Bioshock is probably my favorite franchise and while i totally understand the issues and fallbacks of infinite i cant possibly bring myself to dislike it even slightly, its probably the overwhelming fascination with the two previous games and the wonderful setting/enjoyable gameplay as well as the story idea in general even if it lacked in some aspects. Very nice to see content about this franchise still being released to date, you did a great job! that joke at 17:30 earned you my sub lmao

@KevinHelpUs

21 күн бұрын

Yessss…the ‘joke’ claims another! Thanks so much for watching!

Hell yeah! Loved this entry, but the story seemed like it was hacked to pieces and shipped

Havent finished the vid yet, but literally finished Burial at Sea a few days ago.

@jasapotato8362

29 күн бұрын

I do like the version of meeting Daisy here more

I think this is an excellent concept for a rewrite but- I can't help but mishear you saying "Booker" as "Booger" and it's cracking me up a little lol Cucumber...

@KevinHelpUs

23 күн бұрын

Ha! I tried to hit my K sounds!

Took me a few days to watch it but i really enjoyed your alternative narrative (loaded with cucumbers). For me I've never been a huge fan of the multiverse thing so I never really thought about the story much after playing it but it was nice to revisit it a decade later with a more critical analysis. Great stuff man.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

Thank YOU for taking the time to come back and finish it!

I love this game overall, and I remember my excitement about pre-ordering it and downloading it over college dorm's wifi. I know one of the major issues upon launch that people had was the cut content and especially people feeling like the choices had little weight especially since before this the developers hyped up your freedom of choice and how it mattered in the game. Based on what I have heard from other deep dives about the game, it would be difficult to achieve what the developers were originally planning for the game without a large increase of the budget and thr time needed to properly complete to their original vision. To keep things within the developers' capabilities at the time, I would have probably delayed the game a year and only made some changes to the story. The first being, I would give the player more choices that affected the gameplay and what Columbia timelines you explored/experienced. The gameplay, level design, and what you encounter overall will be the same, but there will be slight differences in what is happening in the setting and what dialogue you encounter. Like based on your choices, you see either the timeline where Daisy is more violent, one where she is semi-merciful, and one where she is completely merciful. The timeline you see could be based on what you show as your character's beliefs on mercy, forgiveness, hope, and et cetera throughout the game. And maybe you either are shown the timeline that matches those beliefs or maybe the total opposite of them and what those outcomes are. I would also more heavily play up, you the player character as the "unrepentant sinner" vs the repentant relgious leader and how much are they really different despite their different life choices. I think this can also help expand on the themes of choice, human free will, and fate that the game already slightly touches on. I would also probably for the ending allow the player to choose to either get baptized, walk away again, or go down the original ending with the Elizabeth's dunking you into the water to prune either timeline of having baby Anna or founding Columbia. And then show the final ending where what ending you will see will be based on what your final choice was and what choices you made throughout the game.

Videos like this is why I love video essays ❤

Cucumber. I honestly don't know what I'd do differently, I'm just along for the ride; and I rather enjoyed Burial At Sea.

@KevinHelpUs

14 күн бұрын

I enjoyed it too! I like it as fan service, but I can see how I could hopefully make it better in the next video.

Cucumber Also dang that was an amazing and pretty well thoughtout way of making Bioshock Infinite story way better, i still like the game and story but yeah there was clearly a lot of beats shuffled around and i wish they would've allowed for more time to properly fix the issues. I also think allowing for more unique options and having them affect the world would've helped, for example when Booker throws the ball and we make the choice 1 could be throwing it at the couple and everyone cheers and Booker is simply let go maybe during the rest of the festival he gets discovered and we have to deal with an alternate way of getting around, we still get the skyhook but with a unique animation sequence. Same for many other possible changes including the bird/cage, choose bird and Songbird appears more frequently luke you said as a mini boss, similar to the handymen choose the cage and more enemies appear as well as maybe different dialogues 1 about hope and freedom the other about security. Very complicated lol but still loved the video and how you were able to make a better story while using everything the game had

@KevinHelpUs

2 күн бұрын

Yes! I get that they wanted to funnel the player back to the same path no matter what they chose, but there were ways to do that without making it so limiting. I was going to include the raffle in that montage of the 'other choices' you could have made, but the raffle throw is so similar no matter what you picked that it would have just confused the audience.

>Disney Klan 10 outta 10

"Wildest church service in video games"? Clearly someone hasn't played Outlast 2...

@KevinHelpUs

Күн бұрын

Oh, I played it. That one's a contender for sure.

@TwiggyShei

Күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs Honestly I thought the first one was scarier, but I still love the sequel. Whistleblower was GOAT

@KevinHelpUs

Күн бұрын

@@TwiggyShei Whistleblower still gives me nightmares.

@TwiggyShei

Күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs Gluskin, right? Frank Manera is spooky with his saw and the constant "FEEDME!" But GLUSKIN is absolute nightmare fuel.

I don't remember a lot of this game. I remember some ghost boss that I struggled with.

would just stuck with the demo since i think the heavy hitter enemies would aslo appeared more in the game

@KevinHelpUs

18 күн бұрын

Would have loved to play that demo, but there was no way in hell the PS3 could have run that.

Oh man I've always thought that the 6 months that was skipped for the rebelion was the biggest let down of the game.

@IDyce88

11 күн бұрын

showing off different realities is more important to the story of Infinite than the rebellion itself...that's why elizabeth is the main character

Fixing Deus Ex: HR and MD main stories. HR exploring golden age of advance prosthetics badly while MD was just another apartide aesop. the side missions were MUCH more clear and gave better rewards! as well as better alternatives to dealing with the main story, like getting a laser cannon to deal with Zhao behind bulletproof glass?!

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

Oh, these would be great. Adding them to the list.

The Last of Us pretty much absorbed all of this game’s popularity lol.

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

It really showed us all how it’s done.

@woldemunster9244

23 күн бұрын

Yeah, Last Of Us was shit from the start, they had to dumb down to console peasants to stay relevant. This is the "patient zero" of crap for "modern audience" I played until the second skyhook arena-fight and just went "huh, this ain't Bioshock". Levine pussied out and ruined two games.

@kingcyclops4079

22 күн бұрын

@@woldemunster9244 I can’t fault Last of Us for everything that came after it. It’s devs like Levine and Druckmann who the problem. Devs that put these massive themes first and story second, making a decent narrative go to crap because they have something else completely different in mind. In infinite, it was the convoluted quantum dimension hopping, with Last of us part 2, it was Abby’s half of the story as well as the half baked conflict between the WLF and the Seraphites. Both games start off interesting with intrigue and mystery but completely fall short when those mysteries are revealed and then the plot has to quite literally shift gears into something almost entirely different just to accommodate this twist. TLDR: game devs learned the exact WRONG lesson from last of us about thematic storytelling.

Cucumber. I took it kind of personally at the end of infinite. When it was revealed that the player and Comstock were the same and then that Elizabeth ultimately killing Booker in the cradle was the only way to end. I felt kind of cheated and didn't want to return for a second playthrough. I didn't know that it didn't matter the choices you made because in each different reality something different did happen didn't it? In the 3rd dimension where Booker died and the revolutionary ripped out the weed she didn't do that in other dimensions so I really wasn't affected by that decision where the possibilities weren't constant. I wasn't ever that cynical, and considering the different ways the gunsmith lived life or died it wasn't ever so clear cut. A life lived no matter how badly was still worth more than the life never lived. And the unanimity of all of the Elizabeth's that Not just the cage but so did the bird have to die. It's crazy to me. There's this old illusion that uses a bird and a cage on either side of a wooden coin and when spun on its axis it gives the illusion of being a part of the same image. A bird trapped in a cage, but they're not. The bird is free and the cage is empty. The thing about Quantum entanglement is when you're watching light particles behave when passing through a binary they react differently than if they were left to act without an observer.

@KevinHelpUs

2 күн бұрын

It took me a while to come around to the ending now. I have more respect for it now that I've had to watch it a hundred times, but it blows my mind how Burial At Sea then broke so much of what the ending established.

Easy solution that absolves all of the sins of Infinite: just take Bioshock out of the name and delete the dlc or treat it as the fan service it is. Infinite is my favorite mechanically with the worst narrative departure that puts bioshock 4 in an awkward spot

How would you fix burial at sea?

@KevinHelpUs

Ай бұрын

If this video does well enough, I’ll tell you!

@MrRAGE-md5rj

13 күн бұрын

Trying not to bank solely on nostalgia from the first two games would be a good start.

Honestly? I don't like the idea that the moral choice in Bioshock 1 should have been more arbitrarily punishing to players so as to make the good ending require "sacrifice". That idea calls to the very forefront the problem with binary moral choices in videogames, and trolley problems more broadly: In the end, they rely largely on narrative contrivance to force the presence of a conflict, and in so doing undermine their believability. They prioritize an artificial "moral narrative" above an organic, consequence-based one in which the events that follow are simply natural results of the actions preceding them. It tells the player that their actions are being judged by the arbitrary standards of some distant developer-god, not simply being forced to reckon with the logical and material results of their choices. And by privileging that judgment, they constrain the narrative to a mere reflection of the writer's biases rather than encouraging any thought beyond that. In this particular case, that would have two problems. One is that it would indirectly align far more with the ethos of someone like Comstock, whose entire MO as an antagonist is that he forcibly creates an environment that seemingly "proves" his moral ideology like any cult leader does. The second and more pressing issue is that it would implicitly validate Andrew Ryan's ideology - it suggests that exploiting others without hesitation is profitable and therefore morally justified if you simply happen to value your self-interest, and that helping others is a stupid, self-destructive waste. This creates dissonance with the world - if Ryan's Objectivism is materially right in its claim that putting oneself first at others' expense is *rational,* then why did Rapture fail as a result of people doing exactly that? If they're right that the simple logic of the world validates their beliefs, what then is your incentive to be "noble" and "self-sacrificing" beyond a dogmatic belief in upholding some moral ideal for its own sake alone? Are you not, then, a fool for choosing to sacrifice your own well-being and risk failure for - in this version of reality where saving the Sisters is just worse - quite literally no rational reason? The fact that saving the Little Sisters ends up rewarding you more in the end is brilliant. It's a subtle critique, a diegetic repudiation of Ryan's ideology and the ultimate proof of his failure. This strengthens the narrative rather than weakening it, because the alternative is to be forced to say "Well, okay, you objectively have a really good point, but I disagree anyway." Now isn't that silly? And I'd like to point out that it's actually much better for verisimilitude, because frankly - it's true in real life as well. Years and years of empirical, sociological analysis make it crystal clear that Objectivism is a crock of nonsense, and that contributing to some sort of common good is more often than not the sensible way to serve one's own self-interest in meaningful ways. Altruism evolved to be reciprocal because it is beneficial that way. Helping others for personal reward or satisfaction isn't just okay - it would be the path of least resistance if not for powerful people and structures manufacturing consent and creating circumstances in which being ruthless is the only way to success. The idea that doing good is inherently self-sacrificial and comes at great personal expense is an unfortunate consequence of people taking certain religious and cultural narratives out of context to serve specific purposes - usually the interests of the powerful. In truth, the entire reason sacrifice and martyrdom became such iconic motifs to begin with is because those circumstances are the exception, not the rule. But disregarding that to try to force things like Christ allegories into narrative leads to some of the most infamous contrivances in gaming history. Remember Fallout 3's ending, in which the writers had to come up with lame excuses to make the "sacrifice" mandatory? It's like that.

@FelisImpurrator

25 күн бұрын

Also, cucumber.

@KevinHelpUs

25 күн бұрын

I've always appreciated when the good path is 'harder', because it's true to life. It's easier to steal than pay for things, although over time, the consequences to those choices would likely catch up with you. Harvesting the Little Sisters is aligned with Ryan's philosophy of Objectivism, so Rescuing them instead is a rejection of Ryan's philosophy, but it makes the choice more temping to harvest JUST THIS ONE so that you could get that new plasmid. I think it would have made the choice carry so much more weight than KNOWING you will be rewarded for doing the right thing, which is not always how life works.

@FelisImpurrator

25 күн бұрын

@@KevinHelpUs That's the thing though. It isn't "easier to steal" (unless you're already wealthy and powerful and do it by exploiting people's labor). It's difficult and risky and people usually only do it out of desperation. The idea that people who steal do so because they're lazy and unprincipled is one that's commonly propagated in all avenues of culture because it serves the powerful, creating a narrative that justifies the punishment of those who are already marginalized and making it easier to frame work as a moral duty. This moral narrative makes it easier to convince people to give their labor over to capital interests without complaint, as do others like the myth of meritocracy. My perspective here is informed by sociology and psychology, the facts of which frequently run counter to conventional moral wisdom. It's objectively better for one's own interests, in the overwhelming majority of cases, to act in support of a common good. There are some circumstances in which that isn't the case, yes - because those in power have created incentive structures that reward cruelty, ruthlessness, and the pursuit of profit above all else. They make it that way so they can convince you that it's easier to hurt others to get ahead. Make a problem and sell the solution. Manufactured consent. I think the mechanic is perfect in concept. See, it's a truer representation of the choice between harming others for instant gratification and not doing so. Helping people pays off in the long term - if you look into the decades of research on these things, you'll see a lot of proof of this. A society simply subsidizing healthcare is cheaper and more efficient than making people pay individually, and improved health pays itself off in increased productivity. Giving homes to the homeless and food to the hungry regardless of whether they "earned it" has the same effect. So does having a shorter work week. These "seem" like bad ideas, but that's because of capitalist realism, the term that describes what I just said about people in power making it seem as though exploitation is the natural way of the world. And this extends downward to communities and individuals too. Mutual aid, for example, is beneficial to the person who participates in it by contributing labor, not just to others. Objectivism isn't bad merely because it's morally wrong, it's bad because it's factually and logistically wrong. If they were to change anything, ideally it would be making the interval between gifts significantly longer, just long enough to elevate tension and difficulty for a significant stretch of encounters, and THEN paying off with a higher ADAM output than simply harvesting the sisters. That would serve as a heightened experience of delayed gratification while still just making more sense. (On that note, a friend mentioned that the evil route is even more incoherent because Tenenbaum is still just as ready to help you out despite your cruelty...)

@Andiatus

24 күн бұрын

​@@FelisImpurrator These are pretty interesting topics that I'd like to learn more about myself, but never knew where to start. Could you please, by any chance, share any references, studies, or videos to check out about this?

@FelisImpurrator

24 күн бұрын

@@Andiatus Unfortunately not all of it off the top of my head. I learned this stuff piecemeal by looking into individual subjects and having these things come up in left-wing coverage of social issues. But I didn't start from a position of believing in leftist ideology and looking for confirmation - I started from encountering evidence and being moved to the left by the sheer weight of reality. You can look up academic studies on any of these subjects individually - socialized healthcare, subsidized public transport, public schooling (and critical thinking-focused education programs), housing-first programs, basic income, shorter work weeks, even drug programs that focus on medical treatment and social destigmatization and decriminalization. The results are all skewed a certain way, repeatedly, across decades. Reality, as it were, has a left-wing bias. And that's not even getting into systemic critiques of capitalism and line-go-up mentality, for instance. Nor is it a deep dive into, say, the psychology of crime and how it's primarily caused by socioeconomic inequality rather than individual moral failings. You can look into that too. Or into the history of the Protestant work ethic being used as a tool to rationalize slavery, for instance, and how that's upstream of things like the prosperity gospel. Or you can look into the history of institutions like American education and how Reagan and the Religious Right systematically undermined the quality of those institutions for ideological and political reasons. You CAN find some good coverage of how unsustainable capitalist ideology hurts the gaming industry on People Make Games though. They're excellent. There's good stuff on channels like Not Just Bikes or Unlearning Economics or Adam Something too.

A sad truth of the multiversal theory indeed. Some things are constants, even among infinite possibilities.

@IDyce88

11 күн бұрын

Bioshock never uses the term "multiverse" that's just a Marvel thing...they say trans-dimensional travel.

This was written SO well. The last line of your story script almost made me cry.

@KevinHelpUs

9 күн бұрын

Honestly, I teared up at the ending the first time I watched the whole thing cut together. Really proud of this one.