While I appreciate the overwhelming enthusiasm people have had in trying to help me with the power connections on the back of the cabinets, it's not a concern at all. All the components have standard 120V US outlet power plugs and I can just put a power strip inside. I_may_ attempt to get the smaller cabinet PDU working because it's more likely to be 120V, but it's not even a consideration at this point since that is so far away right now.

@vwestlife

4 жыл бұрын

A standard U.S. 120-volt plug is only rated for a maximum of 15 amps of current. Anything higher than that is supposed to use a special plug and outlet designed to handle the higher current. This is common today with medium-size copying machines which can draw more than 15 amps of surge current when the fuser kicks on, but aren't big enough to justify running on 240 volts. But at my workplace we had one plugged into a standard outlet via an adapter (on a 20-amp breaker) and it worked fine for years that way.

@BlackEpyon

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, 20A breakers for 120v lines are common enough. You also see them in hallways for plugging in the janitor's floor buffers, etc, not just photocopiers. The server rack at my old school had a UPS with a NEMA-20 plug, and we wired a separate line just for it. Had to move it to a different rail on the service panel (3-phase service) because we'd keep getting under-voltage warnings on the UPS when the HVAC kicked in. The only way we could tell what was happening was because we had the APC software suite installed on the server and a couple other machines in the school that had UPSs. We knew what breakers each machine was on, and because of that we were able to do enough data logging to plot a graph of exactly what was going on and convince the principal and the electrician that moving it to another rail on the service panel was necessary.

@b2gills

4 жыл бұрын

They look like standard twist-lock plugs. The whole point of them is that they don't come out when there is tension. You should be able to get them at a hardware store.

@b2gills

4 жыл бұрын

@@vwestlife Actually no. You can get twist-lock plug that is rated at 120 volts 15 amps. The real purpose for them is that you can't accidentally pull them out. Other than that they run the same gamut of voltage and current ratings as regular plugs.

@jafirelkurd

4 жыл бұрын

If you’re sure it’s not drawing more than 15amps, you can get an adapter for the L5-30. I’ve got one because I’ve got a 3000VA ups, but I never draw 50% and it lets me plug it into a standard 120 outlet to charge it up. Just search for 5-15P to L5-30R on Amazon. If I ever put more stuff in my rack I’ll get a 30amp circuit installed first.

Haha, oh man what an exciting pickup! Always loved the color scheme of these Data General machines. Looking forward to seeing more in the future, I've always wanted to grab a mini or two.

@raoultazief9908

4 жыл бұрын

LGR Nice find for sure! I can't wait to see it working.

@MarkTheMorose

4 жыл бұрын

I sense an 'adding woodgrain vinyl to my Data General mini computer' video coming up...

@BlackEpyon

4 жыл бұрын

The question all of us ask though is, "where to put it?" I've already got a 19" rack in my room, I don't need a second.

@ryansupak3639

4 жыл бұрын

Surely I can't be the only one that, invariably, reads posts from LGR in LGR's voice.

@AbbieOates

4 жыл бұрын

I've watched so much LGR, I read this comment in his voice.

As an ex DG technical support engineer from the 80’s this brings back so many memories. I think I could still fix some of the cpu’s to chip level without even the schematics as there were common stock faults especially on the Nova 3  But to make a few comments on the video here: The drive with the removable disk pack shown is the model 6045 10Mb (5+5) otherwise known as the Phoenix (all DG drives had a name). The white switch at the back is to enable the drive when pushed fully into the cabinet. When extended out for servicing, the switch can be pulled out to also enable the drive to function (the 6045 has the cardboard stuffed inside to defeat it!). Both types of Phoenix 10Mb drive have a solenoid operated lever on the rear right side to prevent the drive from being pulled out on the slides when in operation. The disk pack cover also needs to be placed on top of the disk pack itself otherwise the drive will not function due to a micro-switch operating. The logic board at the rear of the drive is the adapter board which provides an interface to allow daisy chaining to further drives. Each drive would have a unique unit number as selected on the rotary switch located on its front panel. If there is only one drive in the chain as here then a terminator is installed on the adapter. The 6095 10Mb drive that is attached to the MicroNova utilises the MicroNova interface with the narrow grey ribbon cable. The floppy chassis for the MicroNova has two ribbon cables for daisy chaining the bus, not one cable for each drive. The Winchester disk attached to the Nova 4 is the Model 6103 Echo 25Mb drive. There was also a 50Mb version of this too. The head restraint lever is designed to be lifted carefully over the spigot in the open or closed position so no problem in doing that. In answer to some previous comments the Nova 4 utilised 4x AM2901 4-bit slice ALU’s by AMD whereas the MicroNova utilised a DG proprietary microprocessor (the uN601). The VDU is the model 6053 which has both EIA RS-232C and 20mA current loop interfaces. Which one is used will depend upon how the I/O board or otherwise is jumpered though sounds like it was setup for EIA. It would typically be set to 9600 baud and no parity. The white hand wired wires at the top on the rear of the MicroNovas backplane are jumper wires for interrupt and data channel priorities which would be there due to the top two slots being empty. You can also see the same on the A (left side) of the Nova 4 backplane. The black 3 pin cable on the Nova 4’s CPU backplane slot is the main console cable. The mentioning of taking out capacitors isn’t necessary in my opinion. Yes I know capacitors can degrade over time but this kit was built to last. If it was me, I wouldn’t hesitate at powering it all up  Lastly, the technology may be all or mostly TTL but it still demands respect in ESD protection. Handling logic boards without any form of anti-static protection can easily lead to failures either imminently or sometime later. DG went to great lengths to teach its engineers accordingly. As for firing up either of the two chassis, unless the Phoenix drives are functioning and there is still a bootable RDOS operating system on the disk packs supplied, not a lot will be seen in operation which would be a shame. I hope you have success in reviving this hardware. When I look back at what we sent to the scrap man, it still grieves me!

@Okurka.

4 жыл бұрын

10 Megabit or 10 Megabyte?

@jkholtgreve

4 жыл бұрын

The passion oozing out of your reply tells me it’d be a shame and waste of knowledge if you two didn’t exchange phone numbers.

@iancole9880

4 жыл бұрын

@@Okurka. 10 Megabyte :-)

@Okurka.

4 жыл бұрын

@@iancole9880 So not Mb.

@patrickmorrissey2271

4 жыл бұрын

I was going to post a lot of this.... I used to work on these many years ago. But Ian is correct. No sense repeating. Some of what he is saying is over my head, but the stuff I know, he is 100% correct, so, we can assume Ian knows what he is talking about. The cover on the disc pack should be placed over the top of the pack, after you install it. I would leave the capacitors alone. Those were like, military grade, and built to take punishment. God was that stuff expensive, back in the day. Hahaha! I appreciate the placement on plywood, but every one of these I ever saw was installed on a large anti-static mat... I would do that. It will look like a big black mat, and it will have a ground wire running around under it, that will then be connected to building ground.... You mention a small room this is sitting in. This thing is going to throw off a lot of heat. I would not attempt to run it, slammed against that wall. These were typically 18-24 inches from any wall, and had A LOT of ventilation.... Many of the installations I was at had a dedicated air conditioner, blasting in the room where the computer was.... If those drives get hot while they are running, they will die. Don't let that happen.... Part of the normal routine was to check/clean/replace those air filters. Lots of equipment had filters like that, or similar. That system is gulping volumes of air, hour after hour... Those filters must be checked and kept clean... The fans in there were not cheap either, so, when you first power it up, make sure those fans are running.... Depends on the system, but there could be a safety for that, if it senses fan failure, it will not boot, or it will shut itself down, to save itself from an overheat.... Anyways, you should probably find a way to talk to Ian. That video brought back so many memories... Data General and Digital Equipment were big players back then. Neat systems. Good luck to you on this. I wish you the best.

We had experience with a Data General Eclipse system - about turning on, please check every power supply and electrolytic capacitors because they can be shorted. puff & smoke can happen anytime. Be careful! And feel free to ask if you need any advice. We're "Museo dell'Informatica Funzionante" Computer Museum in Sicilia, Italy!

@gordslater

4 жыл бұрын

+1 I prefer to temporarily disconnect old electrolytics and apply a low voltage (with a current limit of a few tens of milliamps) to them, monitoring leakage all the time, slowly increasing the voltage over the course of 24-48 hours once I'm sure they aren't going to short internally. Radio hams and vintage radio repairers refer to this as "re-forming" caps if you google you should find some good info on the procedure. (I'm new to your channel with this vid - thanks YT algo - so I'm unsure how hands-on you are with vintage component-level stuff - apologies in advance if this is old news to you)

@leberkassemmel

4 жыл бұрын

I mean he already mentioned at 22:00 that he want's to take a look at all the capacitors before powering it on.

@mariorossi1633

4 жыл бұрын

I didn't even know there's a computer museum here in Italy

@tarstarkusz

4 жыл бұрын

The caps are fine. This is not consumer equipment. I would guess that nearly all of the caps will test perfectly (within 10% of rating). The supplies are well engineered for reliability, not cost. These caps don't get hot, not to mention they are modern. What he needs is an old capacitor tester that can put out the proper voltages. Basically anything from the 60s or older. They are cheap, they work well and most importantly, you can test a 600 volt cap at 600 volts.

@tarstarkusz

4 жыл бұрын

@Gord I completely disagree. This computer is not a radio and more importantly, hasn't been stored in an attic or barn. Whereas old radios were engineered for primarily cost, this computer was engineered for reliability. This thing is meant to be running 24/7 365.. There is a reason there are lots of very large capacitors in it. I do think he should test the caps using a capacitor tester of the vintage radio era. They can test at very high voltages. My guess is that all of them are good, well within 10% of rated capacity. Once you decide you can't take any chances, where do you stop? Why not just spend a fortune and replace every single one? I seriously doubt that they need to be re-formed. This was probably running as recently as the early 90s. I have worked in places that were using old Vax machines in the 2000s. A lot of companies have an attitude if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I worked for Digital Equipment in the 1970's and 80's. Data General was one of our chief competitors, and Wang. One of my supervisors used to call Data General "Data Generous" for their practice of hiring away DEC talent with offers of cash. Good luck with your project!

I just love how big are everything is and then a tiny little screen

Some terminology The card like I/O (50 pin?) connectors wired to the backplane of the computers are called Paddle Board connectors. The extra I/O card on the back of the "Series 40" hard drive might be a "stereo" adapter for connecting two computers to the same drive, note the dummy plug. The removable packs are DP0 Disk Pack Zero The fixed platter is called DP0F Disk Pack Zero Fixed If you had two drives, the second would be called DP1 and DP1F That series of dual platter hard drives could be 5Mb per platter to 12Mb, the Diablo Series 40 was 10Mb fixed and 10Mb removable. The pass through cable on the Micro Nova floppy and hard drive might be the drive select configuration selector. In one position the Hard drive is drive 0 and the floppy is drive 1, in the other position, the floppy is drive 0 and the hard drive is drive 1. OR it might be the floppy drive power, taken from the hard drive chassis. The Nova 4/x and the Eclipse S140 are built on the same chassis and configuration with different microcode for each. The switch labeled PR Load is "Program Load" or "Computer Boot" if you will, it causes the Computer to read Drive Zero/Cylinder Zero/Head Zero/Sector Zero for the boot routine The bank of 4 large IC's on the Nova 4/x CPU card are most likely 74$181 (or a close relative) four bit slice arithmetic logic chips not four bit slice CPU's, those came much later. The bank of IC's you mentioned that might be ram on the CPU card are probably the microcode, and WCS. You might be tempted to use power strips in the cabinets, I would advise against it, unless they are industrial power strips rated for 20 amps. The twist lock connectors on the back of the cabinets are quite standard and usually indicate 30A service or higher. The 240V connection on the Nova 4/x cabinet is just two different 120V circuits referenced to ground because of the much higher current requirements of the Nova 4/x over the Micro Nova and the dual hard drives. You also might be tempted to run these without using the cabinet fans in the bottom, I would not suggest it. The expanded metal "filters" pop out and can be washed in solvent or hot soapy water, dried and then sprayed with "Filter Coat" a very sticky compound meant to catch fine dust particles. The three pin cable is more than likely either a local RS-232 type connection for the terminal or other serial device. The floating point math card is probably the most expensive card DG ever made, followed closely by the memory management card. The total ram the computer could address was 128K-Words or 256K-Bytes. Since the Nova and Eclipse computers were 16 bit devices, word based memory makes more sense than byte. The memory is only addressable in word format. Bytes are only available in low byte using the Swap Byte modifier an Arithmetic Shift instruction. The "new" PSU on the Nova 4/x is a wonder, replacing a MASSIVE shunt regulated power supply on the S-200 series, it was a takeoff of the Eclipse S-130 switching supply, lightened the design by over 50 lbs of transformer weight. I am more intimately knowledgeable about the NOVA-820, Eclipse S-200 and Eclipse S-130 computers but I had a Nova 4/x to play with for over a year. The Nova 4 series and the Eclipse S-140 were the first computers to not have a toggle switch interface on the front panel, so you could no longer toggle in diagnostic loops by hand which we did quite often to troubleshoot everything from the CPUs to Core Memory adjustments and diagnostics and even to read a block from a tape drive I also worked on the Data General Zebra hard drives, size of a washing machine, 525 lbs, 3 phase drive and blower, 10 platters, 1 servo/clock surface, 19 data surfaces for a whopping 192Mb hard drive. The fastest for its time. 1 drive 1 quad drive stereo host adapter two cables computer interface cards $37,500 new There were so many of them made at this time, a service company was providing refurbished drives with a 1 year warranty for $500 + shipping.

I think you should make a binder with your own servicing notes, like the original one you were showing. It could greatly add to the history of the machine. Use your own handwriting, or type up "invoices" with an old printer or typewriter, etc. Looking forward to this great project!

@TechTangents

4 жыл бұрын

I really like this idea! I've got another idea to build off of it, I'll scan in the original service pages and edit out the notes. Then I can print out new pages myself and put them into the existing binders. That way I can continue on with the original service notes!

That brings back memories! From 1979 to 1989 I was a programmer working on Data General Nova systems. I wrote accounting, inventory, and order/invoicing systems for small businesses, that ran on Nova systems with an total of 16K RAM and 10 MB of disk, supporting 16 users on Dasher terminals.

@Paulhenrycahill

2 жыл бұрын

Me too using business basic at ICSL in Sidcup UK. I used to enjoy talking to the dg engineers when they came visiting. It was a shame to see their job deskilled by increasingly large field replaceable units.

The round main power input @21:24 is a 30 amp connector. It's mainly a warning of "don't try to run this on your normal household 15 amp circuit." You might have to do some rewiring if you want to run it at home. (You can certainly get 30 amps out of your home panel, but you'll need to run new wire or come up with a good story for your fire insurance adjustor.)

@peterg.8245

4 жыл бұрын

Phelps easy just make a reverse generator cable and find two outlets on alternate phases. Easily buy a 30amp outlet and two extension cords and wire the neutrals together and plug the 2 15A plugs into outlets on separate sides of the breaker panel. Should be enough for repair and novelty.

@UnreasonableSteve

4 жыл бұрын

Pedantry: It's actually a 20amp connector (the wiring diagram shows an L5-20P). Technically he probably has a 20A circuit for his kitchen outlets, and it's likely it'd run fine on a 15A circuit but I wouldn't want to be pushing my wiring that hard.

@UnreasonableSteve

4 жыл бұрын

@@peterg.8245 Now that's some sketchy electrics. The outlet on the smaller machine is a 120V, trying to pair up (parallel) two separate 15A circuits in that way is extremely dangerous - if they're on the same side of the split phase, unplugging one would leave live bare connectors on the male side. Or, if one breaker blows or is turned off, now you're backfeeding that branch via the other's breaker. If they're on opposite phases, you've now got a 240V shunt across the extension cords. Even for a 240V "adapter" like you're suggesting, if either end is unplugged, you leave the potential for current to flow through the device and into you via the male end, as well as potential backfeeding problems. I absolutely would not suggest anybody do either.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

@@UnreasonableSteve there is actually a special type of adapter for that purpose evidently that's expensive and complicated. As long as 220 adapters like that as well. But I haven't heard a z i got years probably been banned by the code cheat for years.

Whenever you get to the point of examining the Titanicaly proportioned capacitors, I'd like to see one sitting next to a 12 ounce soda can for a size comparison

@peterg.8245

4 жыл бұрын

Jeramy Breckles they may not be as large in capacity since capacitor technology has evolved over the past half century.

@jamesbennettmusic

4 жыл бұрын

@@peterg.8245 I'd laugh if the modern equivalent was about the size of a C cell battery.... ain't it always the way

@the123king

4 жыл бұрын

@@peterg.8245 They're not to be messed about with. Many of these minicomputers pull a lot of current on startup, and require capacitors with a lot of farads to keep up with the current draw.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

Is that would be a good comparison and it should be done definitely.

It's kind of funny that within about a decade or maybe slightly more, from the time this was new, you could buy a 386 with more ram, more hard disk space, more processing power and even the virtualization functions this has for about $5k that could run in a couple hundred watts. It's easy to forget just how much progress was made during this period. Boards and boards of chips could be duplicated by just one VLSI chip. Your Sony calculator is another fine example of just how fast IC technology was moving at the time.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

Totally. I agree 100% Probably about anyone else that would be worth their salt.

@johneygd

4 жыл бұрын

Sure this computer was monstrously huge and primitive but it did form the basics for what computers do have today now i don’t know what you could do with it, but just imagine WW3 has been ended and we are getting back to the stone ages but then somewhere inside a bunker this giant computer will remain , then you imagine how much forward it will bring us,, getting glimpse and slowly putting us back into the future...

@BlackEpyon

4 жыл бұрын

Tandy was able to cut price down quite a bit from the equivalent IBM specs of only a few years earlier because of those VLSI chips.

@tarstarkusz

4 жыл бұрын

@johneygd I wasn't putting it down. I worked in offices still using 1970s mini-computers as recently as the 2000s. Specifically a DEC Vax. A lot of companies have a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude when it comes to technology, which I wholeheartedly agree with. One of the major uses of the Vax was for reporting billable hours. It worked great. It basically never went down and generated very little excess data. It stored everything quite efficiently and so that kept our WAN use down and even kept our LAN traffic down. My comment was more about just how quickly everything was moving at that time. The improvements over 10 years in that time were orders of magnitude larger than improvements in ICs over the last 10 years.

@NintenloupWolfFR

4 жыл бұрын

A 386 computer likely used less than a 100W of power, including a crt ~70w CRT we are still under 200W

The round connectors are actually standardized connectors, they're just not as common - They're locking NEMA connectors, designation L5 or L6 followed by their current rating (size) and a suffix of R or P for Receptacle or Plug. The wiring diagram actually tells you exactly which connector is used on that machine: a nema L5-20R (a 120V, 20Amp connector). The other cabinet may be an L6-30 or similar. Either way, you're looking at 20 or 30Amps so you should not run these on a common wall outlet - if you have a 240V outlet for dryer or stove nearby it could be worth using that (Dryers are generally 240/120 combo outlets that you could make either of these work)

@UnreasonableSteve

4 жыл бұрын

And looking at the connector on the bigger box, I'd guess it's an L14-30, which is a combination 120/240 plug. You can easily get either of these connectors at almost any home depot. They are handy for their twist-lock functionality - the plug cannot be unplugged with a simple tug, you have to rotate it slightly to unlock it first.

Brings back some memories. When I was in High School (late 70's), the school computer class got to go over to the Data General facility in Anaheim (in the evening) and use their system there to play with BASIC. I remember being afraid to touch anything lest I break it ;D

Damn man, you're really taking this channel to the next level.

I am blue with envy! During my university years, I had the opportunity to work with an RC-7000, a locally produced mini-computer using an NOVA 1200 as the CPU. The RC-7000 was later replaced by an MV/10000, which was upgraded to an MV/15000 a few years later. The university also acquired a small MV/7800. I had the pleasure of being the system administrator for the MV's (and a couple of Sun servers, LSI-11, and an NCR Tower 6000). The MV/10000-15000 was named "Meza" in honour of a famous Danish general Christian de Meza. Later, I worked for a shipyard that had 3 MV/20000's used for CAD work by 50-60 designers and engineers.

On those removable disks, the base from the cartridge needs to be flipped over and put on top of the disk when it's in the drive - there's an interlock which will stop the drive spinning up otherwise. BTW, they sound awesome when they power on. Like a 747 taking off. I suggest you look around for an alignment disk too, because the heads will have lost alignment in transit - guaranteed. You hook up a scope and use a small program to seek to special tracks which display a "cat's eyes" pattern on the scope when the heads are aligned. I used to do field service on these things in the late 70's - early 80's so it's fascinating to see one resurrected.

I can't wait for the nine and a half month recapping live stream.

@retrobytes.v65

4 жыл бұрын

Recapping is not necessarily something that has to be done as a matter of course. One only needs to replace any faulty capacitors.

@gregorymalchuk272

3 жыл бұрын

Bulk recapping is for idiots who cargo cult their electronic repairs.

I worked through the 80s in a control room that had as part of it a trending display system that stored process input values on 2 8 inch floppy drives ( probably similar to your 8 inch drive(s) ). The floppy diskettes themselves spun 24/7, and the heads only came in contact with the disc when data was accessed. The discs were made by Dysan, and the whole system was so robust, with only regular maintenance, and disc change-outs maybe twice a year, it lasted till the early 90s when the plant was shut down. Good luck with your venture, and thanks!

I'm looking forward to seeing more of this system! If you haven't already, you need to read "The Soul of a New Machine" by Tracy Kidder - it chronicles the development of a later Data General system, but really shows what went into designing and developing these systems.

@garywatson

4 жыл бұрын

Great book - got a Pulitzer Prize. Can teach anybody how a microcoded CPU architecture works.

@IanC14

4 жыл бұрын

He has that book, posted a photo on his twitter

@sluxi

4 жыл бұрын

A new audiobook version also came out just a few years ago. Highly recommended!

@darryljones9208

4 жыл бұрын

I was required to read it in college in 1983 i think.

Shelby, I’ve only just found your channel. I hope you’re aware of how impressive of a human being you are. I’ve met so many people in my life, in so many circumstances. I spent a decade in the military. I’ve traveled the world, the good places and the not so good. I’m now an academic in a university where I meet countless people. I worked in the tech industry for 10 years. I don’t know you, but I can see in your eyes that you’re a genuinely good person and someone who pours your whole self into what you love. I would say “never let the world beat that out of you”, but I can tell it won’t. You’re rare. What a treat that you’ve decided to share it with all of us. Thank you.

hi, I am very happy to discover your computers .I was a field service engineer , i joined the company in France in 1979 ( I am french) and i worked on microNova, Éclipse,Mv series and Clariion Disks till 1999, because Emc bought DGCorp for $ 1,1m .These company was really fantastic and I likes to work for her.In 1999 i gave all the technical Doc to a guy located in Denver(Colorado) .he was very surprise to discover how DG Corp had a Real impact all over the world in computer technologue.thank you for this video. jp

Excellent watch, I remember watching druaga1 featuring you and going on your channel and you had like 5k now look at you. Good luck man!

It is a gorgeous terminal, the display and keyboard are beautiful. Congrats mate.

I would have much more faith in large capacitors from the 1970s than from miniature surface mount ones from the 2000s. Testing them is a good idea though.

Those look like NEMA connectors. You can pick them up on amazon or local hardware stores and wire them up yourself

@pjm780

4 жыл бұрын

The schematic he shows on the back panel says it's an NEMA L5-20, so you are correct.

@smartyhall

4 жыл бұрын

If you look on Wikipedia, there is a nice chart that shows all the NEMA outlets. The thing about the round ones is that they lock, so you had one less point of failure in the event the housing were to get moved. Also, people used to get more paranoid about 20 amp circuits than they are these days, so the NEMA 5-20 was nowhere near as common.

@christophertstone

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's always a bit annoying when people don't read the documentation or bother to lookup the one set of standard power connections used throughout North America. I don't expect everyone to just know these, but L5/L6 are used extensively in large computer installations today and in the 70s.

@andydelle4509

4 жыл бұрын

In fact Home Depot carries these.

@smartyhall

4 жыл бұрын

@@christophertstone They also still get a lot of use in the entertainment industry for connecting PDUs for equipment that's racked in flight cases.

23:40 Can't escape the tech tip.

@TubbyJ420

4 жыл бұрын

At least its a friendly LTT add, could be worse. Like raid shadow legends.

@IanC14

4 жыл бұрын

I can't stand Linus. He's so… insufferable

I can't imagine the amount of stress that would come with loading a van with heavy 70s tech, driving home, and then setting it up again as originally configured as best as possible. Cheers dude.

@cyberp0et

2 жыл бұрын

That kind of "stress" is the most desirable kind :)

"i got these locally" - "about 100 miles" to an Englishman that might as well be on the moon

@The_Wandering_Nerd

4 жыл бұрын

If you live in Arizona, everything is hundreds of miles away.

@thomasbland6428

4 жыл бұрын

This is typical thinking for those living in mid to western US. In Texas, we reference the drive time for everything in either minutes or, more often, hours.

@anonUK

3 жыл бұрын

100 miles gets you from London to beyond Birmingham, Bristol or Leicester. It gets you from Manchester to beyond Birmingham, Leeds or Nottingham, or the Lake District. In 800 miles you've travelled from one end of the UK to the other. In the USA, 100 miles gets you from one city to its near neighbour and 800 miles gets you 2, 3 or 4 states away. However, the USA has very little still in evidence from before the Revolutionary War. A few Spanish mission churches in California, some Anasazi cave systems, a few buildings in Philadelphia and Boston and the cities of Charleston and Annapolis.

@startedtech

2 жыл бұрын

I drove 400 miles round trip one day to go pick up an Imsai 8080 and a Terminal a while back. Left in the morning, still had the afternoon free.

It's a bad time when you get the magic smoke from blown caps in more usual retro desktop computers of the 80s... I can't imagine what it would look like with those huge caps suddenly going off inside these hulking beasts.

i gotta say.. i love how this channel is evolving; keep up the great work!

I would like to state that if you guys (retro computer YT creators) better make a pact that when you guys die, you guys need to send the collections of software and hardware you have to museums. The sheer artifacts you guys have should be on display for all to see.

You might want to become best friends with Curious Marc... Just sayin. The general rule with caps are; the older the mainframe, the bigger the caps. Cheers,

This is one of the most beautiful computers I've ever seen. It's like the platonic form of a computer

That terminal looks amazing - like right out of an old sci-fi movie.

Oh my God, is this ever is giving me flashbacks. I bought a Data General Nova 3 from my university in 1987, at surplus equipment auction. As I recall, I paid a whopping $57 for it. Sorry to say, I don't know much technically about what I had there, except that it weighed roughly 250-300 pounds, and filled up the back of a minivan. There was a solidly-built, desk-sized console, with a keyboard, and an big 'ol, in-built 15" (IIRC) single-platter hard drive pack (maybe 5MB total?). That pack, we were told, took a long time to spin up and/or brake to a stop, something on the order of 15-30 seconds. Any documentation we got was limited or missing entirely. I don't recall any terminal hardware included, either, so we never had much of a shot at getting it running anyway. Anyway, at the time, I didn't research it very much, because I had only bought it to drive 250 miles from Missouri to Omaha, NE, and re-sell it to a consultant there, who still used that kind of hardware. By the time we paid for gas and use of the van, I think our net profit amounted to some free pizza for me & the three guys helped load it up. In other words, we didn't achieve much except a flip-subsidized roadtrip. Ahhhh good times, life will never be like that again.

I really want a modern computer system (including keyboard) with that same color scheme/aesthetic.

@bluephreakr

4 жыл бұрын

So basically you want a server rack with a server PC. It's doable, though you'll have a tough time with the display. Not sure what its dimensions are, or if you can find a generic equivalent to modify, but basically paint it cyan with cream trim and navy blue plates for everything you want to stuff in the server rack and there you go. For the display monitor, you could have it sitting on top of some hi-fi system to make it a decent music box running a Linux system so you can play around in a TTY.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

@@bluephreakr that would be awesome.

these machines look amazing and i can't wait to see more of them thank you for buying these and letting them be scraped

The round plug on the mini is 20amps, still the standard in data centers. A household outlet is only 15amps. Be careful of the amp draw when you turn it on.

@dw7444

4 жыл бұрын

The 4 conductor twist lock connector? Pretty sure that's an L14-30..... It's 120/240 volt, carries two 120v circuits with different phases to allow you get have either 120v or 240v as required.

@ericsills6484

4 жыл бұрын

It looks to me like a standard 120v round "locking" plug, but I'm not sure.

@dw7444

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericsills6484 You mean like an L6-30 or L5-20?

4:54 The advantage of word addressing is that more memory can be addressed in the same number of bits. San Francisco International Airport had a Data General Nova back in 1982 that was used for monitoring noise as the jet planes were flying over residential areas while departing SFO.

Can't wait to see your restoration procedure episodes on this old beast, it's going to provide so much engaging content.

A pretty sweet goal would be (get it working) to have it work as a online BBS However I'm not entirely sure how one would do that. There was a guy that had a pdp 8 that you could log into with a live camera it was awsome. The computer would turn on then a lamp and you could see it chugging away while you played Zork.

That's a lot of computer for such a small space! I used to work on DG minicomputers (Nova 830) at the Air Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory (RPL) where the Air Force tested various thruster sizes up to 300K pound Morton Thiokol solid fuel engines. As a computer repair tech my job was to troubleshoot these beasts when they stopped working -- which was fairly often, but there were also at least a dozen installations scattered over the facility, so individual site failures were not too often. Looking at the installation in this video, I give my sympathies to this brave soul... not having at least 4-5 feet of space to work behind the rack puts a crimp on things. But I can see this is a labor of love, and get a kick out of watching new generations of enthusiasts keeping these historical machines alive, at least in spirit if not completely functional.

I really really enjoyed this. Thank you for rescuing and preserving this part of history.

Very interesting! I own the D1 version of the keyboard to this. Always cool to hear about the history of the computers they came with - they're real lookers :) .

I wish I had this much space. Oh, and those computers, and the patience required to keep them running. Hats off to you, Shelby.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

Having that much space. If we in storage space I think everyone has more than the enough nowadays. Then again you might have a single 10 terabyte hard drive somewhere right. LOL. Yeah yeah I know he wasn't talked about that that type of space. but I couldn't resist.

Brings back a lot of memories. Back when I was a young engineering graduate I had a job at a big electronics company and one of my jobs was what we now call IT manager, meaning I had to keep the VAX cluster and the DG network up and running. I remember visiting DG in California to talk to them about their new designs, and I remember having to go through an interesting boot sequence to get the DG machines online. Nothing as heinous as having to toggle switches (like the PDP11s) but it was more involved than the DEC systems. We had to have those systems in a raised-floor room to keep the temp and dust under control (those spinning disks were very vulnerable to head crashes). So interesting to see these things now in the hands of everyday enthusiasts. Back then, these systems were outrageously expensive and way out of reach of the common man - and the PC hadn't been invented yet. Thanks for this video. It was very nostalgic to me.

Have no doubt you are up to the challenge! So fascinating to see this and I can’t wait for future videos.

I worked with a data general eclipse system in production at a bank. When it was replaced, it took a rack of about 20 servers to do the job of one system.

I’m pretty sure Brighton Technical College in the UK had the one on the right, and I used it in the mid 80’s. Such a great find.

That's a lot of computer for such a small space! I used to work on DG minicomputers (Nova series) at the Air Force Rocket Propulsion Laboratory (RPL) where the Air Force tested various thruster sizes up to 300K pound Morton Thiokol solid fuel engines. As a computer repair tech my job was to troubleshoot these beasts when they stopped working -- which was fairly often, but there were also at least a dozen installations sites scattered over the facility, so individual site failures was not too bad. Looking at the installation in this video, I give my sympathies to this brave soul... not having at least 4-5 feet of space to work behind the rack puts a crimp on things. But I can see this is a labor of love, and get a kick out of new generations of enthusiasts keeping these historical machines alive, at least in spirit if not completely functional.

I have acquaintances that would say: "That's not a big computer. THIS is a big computer." One of them was once asked if he wanted a PDP-10. He said yes, thinking it was just an earlier version of a PDP-11, and hence about the same size as your Data Generals. Well, turned out, they weren't. After he got it delivered he had to sleep under the table in the kitchen, apparently. It became the start of a collection of a DEC mainframes. Yes, some people are a whole different level of crazy.

Ah, DG. I worked on DG systems in the mid 1990s ('95-'96). AViiON 9500s, though, nothing as cool as this. They ran Meditech OS.

Welcome to the DG Nova club!

Just passing by to thank you for digitally documenting this rare gemstone in computing history. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and you helped archive a very curious piece of history.

This is really cool! i have fond memories from my highschool where we had one DG Nova 1000 and another DG Nova 1200 together with 12 Dasher terminals and two DG Teletype terminals that we used in one of our computer labs! Looking forward to seeing more of these magnificent beasts!

Its a nema L 5-20 (p is for plug, r is for recpeticale) home depot sells them, its a good solid 20a connector, locks in place. you you could rip it off and put a more standard 20amp plug on it. either way amazon and home depot sell parts and adapters !

Wow, pretty cool! I was already hyped when I read your post. Really looking forward to this series! Can you get into a little more detail what the previous owner was doing with this mini computer back in the 70s?

@TechTangents

4 жыл бұрын

It was used for typical business stuff, client info, invoices, etc. Nothing really crazy. They did say they used basic on it, so they did get some real use out of it being a computer instead of just a data storage device. I'll have a better idea when I can see what software is on it once it's working again.

@AdamChristensen

4 жыл бұрын

@@TechTangents It's amazing that a relic like this was sitting in a manufacturing shop, just hiding for years. I'm surprised they didn't ship it off for scrap in the 90s. Glad it found a good home!

Such great videos. I saw your set up at LTX and loved it as I live in Vancouver. Keep up the good work . Always watch all your vids front to back and like.

Holy crap, I am VERY excited about this video series. Can't wait for the next video! If you have to repair any of these guys, that's going to make for some great documentary video.

In the words of TechMoan "flipping 'eck" you're in my part of the states heck yes!!!

@IanC14

4 жыл бұрын

I have a massive backlog of Techmoan videos to get through 😅

That looks like a "Twistlock" NEMA plug, you should be able to find the correct plug end at most hardware stores.

Very enjoyable video. I intend to follow this NOVA 4X project This beings back good memories for me. In 1984 while working at Airborne Instrument Labs in Deer Park, New York, I utilized a Data General NOVA 3 to interface to up to five Air Traffic Control Vector displays. It was programmed to run mainly display test patterns on the displays in order to facilitate alignment and testing. The NOVA 3 used the bit slice processor chips for the CPU board. We had to design several interface boards for it in order to "talk" to the consoles. The interface boards performed a bunch of multiplexing and DMA to the I/O interface boards inside the ATC displays. The test programs were loaded via punched tape machines. !! I love these old computers. Thank you for posting this project.

I love seeing Old School Mini Computers. They're just so cool!

Wow, these are real "vintage" computers :D

It really is amazing how far computers have evolved since then. Any thoughts on what you might do with this, or is it more a museum/talking piece?

Oh wow. I saw these a week or two ago on the FB marketplace, glad you were able to pick them up and definitely went to a good place. Hope the repairs on it go well

This is fascinating. I was in the training department at DG and actually taught theory of operation and bench troubleshooting on the NOVA 4 series and the MicroNOVA. If I can find marked up schematics I'll be happy to send them to you. You mentioned the memory capacity as being designated as words. DG, and many other manufactures hadn't bought into a standard unit at this time. A "word" was however was as many bits of the instruction length. The original NOVAs and Eclipses used 16-bit instruction length and 16-bit data "words". It wasn't until the MV-8000 (DG's first 32-bit CPU) that DG finally started designating memory sizes in bytes. Email me, perhaps I can help you with this.

Capacitors from the 70s really aren't like the previous capacitors. These are not paper or wax caps and they were on very high end equipment. It is very likely that all or most of these caps will test good. Hell, even on consumer grade stereos from the 70s, the caps are still good. Unlike the caps in consumer equipment where cost was a major concern, serviceability and reliability were a far bigger concern for these machines and they are engineered in such a way that they don't get hot and are designed to run continuously for very long periods of time. Basically a 100% duty cycle.. Also, this thing was not stored in a barn or an attic. I don't think you will have any major problems with the power supplies. If you don't already have one, you should get a 50s or 60s capacitor meter. They are able to check capacitors at a specified voltage.

Looking forward to this series. And now I know you're in Phoenix, I wish I still lived in Mesa ;-) This is going to bring back a lot of memories of when I owned a Prime minicomputer that was given to me by the college where I got my BSCS degree and where I worked for a while after I graduated. They were getting rid of all the Prime computers and I told them I would like to have some. But the largest Prime they had was a 9955 which was several racks as big as your big rack, and there was no way that that would fit in my house. So I got a "small" one, a 2350 which was about the size of your small rack, only half the width. It had a 5.25" SCSI hard disk and tape drive but the controller was broken, so I got the controller out of the 9955 and also got a small 19" rack with two 300MB hard disks, plus a 9 track tape drive, which had also belonged to the 9955. I also got a Televideo 950 terminal. I didn't have a car and the hard disks were 56kg each (they had a warning label on the back side stating the weight). Way too heavy to take on the bus. So I took the disk pack out of one drive and got it home by bus. I was planning on getting the rest of it home in a similar way: just take it apart into pieces that are small enough to carry, and go back and forth on the bus a couple dozen times. Fortunately a house mate with a car offered to help me and we got the whole rest of it in his car and home in one trip. Everything still worked and I played with it a couple of times but not often: It used so much electricity that if I allowed the two hard disks to spin up at the same time, it threw the breaker in the house (16A 220V). And not only that; it also generated so much heat that the temperature in the house would go up by 10 degrees Celsius (18F) in about an hour, and it took about 20 minutes to boot up. It was fun to have, and fun to show off to friends ("Man this is loud!" "That's just the fans! You should hear it when the disks are spinning!"). But I had to leave it behind when I emigrated to the USA. Too bad because I never took any pictures of it and now there are no pictures on the Internet and there is almost no information about that computer available anywhere.

@MisterRorschach90

4 жыл бұрын

Pics or didn’t happen. Jk I had to.

@tarstarkusz

4 жыл бұрын

That is the perfect explanation for why this was a bad idea. When the coolness factor wears off, this is just going to be a big heavy waste of space. Some things just belong in the past.

Really interesting to see the guts of a minicomputer. Thanks for making this video. I also love the flat, vibrant colors of computers from this era.

Man I would love something like this so much, but ultimately its great that you have it and can show it off to us all on KZread. Better than it sitting away somewhere out of sight! Really looking forward to future videos on it :)

Can´t wait until it´s getting powered up, cause i´m sure it can tell us all what 42 means, in no time :D

Thats one freaking cool computer...love that blue...Will you be doing a video about the history of data general ?

They are beautiful. Just seeing these in the thumbnail column drew me here. Everything about their design is so right, the colours, the proportions, the fonts, I am green with envy. So I am going to watch your channel. Absolutely awesome.[Edited] Oh sod it. Subbed. You seem the right person to look after these.

Wow! What a mammoth machine. Looking forward to your epic renovation 👍

Any updates on this project? Wondering if you got that terminal working.

35:30 MMmmm... vintage asbestos and nicotine dust.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

There might be a chance of some asbestos power supply Maybe?

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

You know that most you think that asbestos has been completely banned in the United States. However it has not a never been completely banned. It's still used in some things to this day. Although never as much as it used to be. Still remember on stage crew. Our fire protection system for the auditorium. Which was one of the first things we are instructed on operation. Hopefully no one ever needs to do this. Was how to release the asbestos curtain. Which requires you to cut two ropes and then use a loop of rope to release it. It's what would keep a fire from hitting from the front of the stage to the auditorium should there be a major fire. Although there has been a couple times we have had to evacuate the auditorium. However we've never had to use these forces card yet. Fortunately. On myself had to do an orderly evacuation. Because I was the closest one to a microphone. Our procedure was someone would grab a nearby microphone and that audio channel would be turn all the way up and everything else muted. The lied would go as follows. May I have your attention please. Remain calm. Please exit the auditorium an orderly fashion. And exit the building at the rear.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

Also see a video by franlab on asbestos. That's how I found out that it was not completely banned.

@agfagaevart

4 жыл бұрын

Asbestos was still in use in the UK during the 1990s!! Unbelievable.

@TheGeoffers08

4 жыл бұрын

@@agfagaevart Out of interest, where? I work in the building industry, and to my knowledge it stoped use in the 70's. Hence why there is a way leave for major works on a building, if it is built from the 80s on, there is very rarely an asbestos record H&S book.

Super super cool! Kudos for making the move on this one.. what a beauty! Love that screen and keyboard.. I will show this video to the mother of our daughter and say : "See ..our (my) retro computer collection isn't really that space consuming after all... agree?" 🤣😁 That CBM PET is really a only of pet size.. WAF of retro computers are badly in need of a PR campaign around these corners..

I just got to this video and I have to say that this is a beauty. I have no idea what you have planned for it, but it would be cool to see it up and running.

Signs you don't have a wife: - you buy a 70s mini computer and nobody beat you up over it

@Sashazur

4 жыл бұрын

SeltsamerAttraktor Signs you have a 70s minicomputer: you don’t have a wife!

I love the colours on that shot. So warm. It kind of reminds me of film. Also, even though you complained, I do actually like the camera angle.

It's been a long time since i have seen a Data General. You are going to have fun getting that to work again.

Bummer, who would have thought that a year later we would still see no more on these. Come on Shelby, let us know when you are going to get back to these super interesting machines...

I know this is off topic but what lens are you using for filming? I love the chromatic abberation it produces.

You should definitely set up a live stream when you go to turn it on the first time.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

I keep receiving the Avatar I don't know where it's from but anyone know?

I take my hat off for you ! What an amazing machine ! wow! I also admire your knowledge in general about computers/mainframes/terminals. I hope everything goes well for a long long time. Thanks for sharing! *cough* sorry.. i had to cough even though it was just on video when you tapped the air filters on the floormat :-)

Congratulations, on the excellent find!

23:39- LTT brand cable tie XD

When you actually have to live inside of the computer you bought.

@aaronbrandenburg2441

4 жыл бұрын

More like living in the garage or a storage shed these you have somebody as computers in the house LOL

Touching chips without an ESD strap is what bring back memories on how many keyboard BIOS chips I have killed back then in the late 90's in high school, just because I did not care.

Oh man, I cannot wait to see this up and running..

This is gonna be good. Always a "Like before watch" channel anyway.

@electronash

4 жыл бұрын

As soon as you mentioned the "four 4-bit chips", and "microcode", I would bet that it's using the AM2901 "BitSlice" chips. ;) The same chip is used with some microcode ROMs for the disk controller on the Quantel Paintbox. I had to stick together those ROMs, and figure out the disassembly for the "instructions" that control the SMD hard drive. Interesting stuff. Please let us know what part number the small ROM is. It should be possible to make an image of it.

I love to see this. Computers like this mostly end in a landfill or in a recycle bin.

I used a DG 100 in the mid 70's on the Bristol Area Land Use and Transportation Study in the UK. I had to put in the first 30 odd commands on 16 swithches on the front, this was the boot loader, we then fed the programme and data in on punch cards. The machine had 1K of on board memory and was primarily used as a terminal for an IBM Philips 370 but also did data verification. It didn't have a CRT but used a teletype machine for input and a daisy wheel printer for output. The project took 2 years, 5 years later I spoke with one of the Engineers/Programmers and we decided the job could have been done with a Sinclair Spectrum 64 in 3 months.

Wow, brings back memories to say the least. I want to play. I have tubs of parts in my attic of my pull barn.

Still waiting for the video of you booting it up... :)

Hey.. I'm new to your channel (sorry) and this it's awesome.. I noticed there is no follow up to this video.. do you still have the computer and have you had time to get it up and running at all.. if you can't do a video a quick message will suffice.. thanks and keep the awesomeness coming!! 👊

I remember one of these at my father's work in the 1970s; earlier than these. To start it up, you entered a boot loader through the front panel, which read the bootstrap program from paper tape on the teletype console. This then loaded the OS from disk. It was very impressive at the time.

I'M SO EXCITED I've been looking for good, well made Data General computer content since reading The Soul of a New Machine years ago!