Food for thought, the 1st round is held in place by 3 blocks of jel. next shot had only 2 blocks, the reason the 1st shot pushed farther in was due to the extra mass that held it in place good test but You have to consider all elements And take in consideration the extra weight Held the ballistic Jel in place to allow the bullet to travel farther. Just one old Soldier's analogy of your test. Thank you for all you guys do.

@keatoncyre9926

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you 100%

@keatoncyre9926

2 жыл бұрын

I compare it to a bow. You can shoot clean thru a whitetail deer with a good shot. But, take the same bow, same arrow, and same Broadhead and it'll *almost* never pass all the way thru a smaller animal, like a squirrel. The deer is much heavier and has alot more mass, the arrow is able to drive it's way thru as the deer provides much less deflection. The squirrel is so light, it provides too much deflection and the arrow get stuck in the animal, as it just ends up carrying the squirrel with it. Just a theory 🤷🏻‍♂️

@MarAgt

2 жыл бұрын

@LarryAhee, I had the exact same thought. It may not have made a difference to have the 3rd block there, but by not having it, it brings up the question because they changed the test parameters.

@1984WillS

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The blocks were able to, and did, move more to absorb the energy. Change testing parameters, and the test results become irrelevant. Would the results have been different with a 3rd block? Who knows.... An apples to oranges comparison nets zero results that are considered relevant.

@stephenmallory8613

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with what has been said about the second test and no 3rd block. Another thing that was not bought up in the video was the amount of "springback" of the bullet in the first test. When you watch the slo-mo you can see the momentum of the bullet is being pushed back as the gelatain is settling down.

Would be an interesting test (maybe more interesting) to to these again at around 1800fps velocity or 900ft-lbs. This is most bullet manufacturers min speed/energy for hunting. Match bullets are very common for long range hunting in many parts of the world due to the thinner jackets. The current test is at max velocity, which may not be a true reflection of real-life hunting.

@ACETHAT1

2 жыл бұрын

Hunting at point blank range with match bullets it just works lol

@vanscos

2 жыл бұрын

I agree

@beyondtwominutes

2 жыл бұрын

Even down to 1400 fps

@beyondtwominutes

2 жыл бұрын

@@don_kandon6006 glad to have another supporter of the long range hunting group! People get so stuck on labeling.

@DinoNucci

2 жыл бұрын

THIS! I'd like to see them compared @ 100 yards

shot placement reigns supreme, so KNOW YOUR BULLET.

Last year because of the extreme shortage of bullets available we used the 140g ELDM for our deer hunt. We took 3 deer ranging from 125 to 440 meters. All three were heart shots all were terminal two of the deer dropped on the spot the other one, a whitetail buck went about 5 yards and fell. I would again without hesitation use the Match bullets. Confidence in your shot and bullet placement will do the job.

@mikehoene1785

Жыл бұрын

Agree 100%. Last year my wife shot her Muledeer 4 point buck beaded at about 165 yards with a ELDM 140 grain bullet and the buck expired in his bed. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for hunting from our experience.

@edwardh1591

Жыл бұрын

I used 140 eldm for many years in my 6.5. Now I’m using Berger 140 elite hunter bullets. Both kill instantly. I use Berger hunting bullets full time now.

@HoffnerPrecision

Жыл бұрын

Gunwerks did an incredible amount of testing on a lot of 6.5 bullets when they entered the 6.5 creedmoor game. They hunted all over the world with many different bullets on all kinds of animals, and they eventually settled on the 140 ELDM as their go to bullet. I’ve seen a lot of animals taken with the 140 ELDM and the 143 ELDX and they both performed VERY well. I was interested in the findings of this video, but had already decided there really isn’t much practical difference in terminal performance. Good video.

@82KW82

11 ай бұрын

Buying a 6.5CM now for this years deer hunt. Good info. Now just need to find which one my gun shoots more accurately.

@chandlergardner8627

7 ай бұрын

I got a lot of crap from older guy about hunting with match ammo. We had 2 deer dropped this year with match bullets. Chose the match ammo because my gun and her gun was more accurate, 1/2-3/4 groups at 100 meters. Repeatedly.

Load these 2 again with a reduced load. Running around 1700 to 1800 fps. That would really be an interesting test! Not that this one isn't, because it is excellent. I just imagine most also want to see these at thier lower, "long range" performance. Great job! Keep'em coming!

@AP-cm3kb

Жыл бұрын

147eldm factory cm expanded at 650 for me on an elk if want to look up velocity in a table. Was effective, collected on offside shoulder.

@kentuckywindage222

Жыл бұрын

@@AP-cm3kb Thanks partner. The 140 gr ELDM @2835 was impressive @1060 yards. I had just shot a great group at 1000 yards as my buddy and I were beginning to pack up for the evening. Still set for 1000 yards a varmint stepped out just beyond. My buddy ranged it at 1060 yards. I made the adjustment, eased the trigger and one varmint down. One thing here is conditions were near perfect. One thing I will do if ever I was to do it again is picture's. Being older I just forget sometimes these phones do so many things. That 147gr ELDM runs around 2800 + for me and I can't see not using it for longer shots. I'm also running the 130 Gamechanger at 3038 fps. I will use it for closer shots. That 140 ELDM has 357 mag, at the muzzle velocity and ft-lb energy at 1000 yards. Those who argue ability of the cartridge but think a pistol cartridge like the 357 mag at the muzzle or within 50 yards is capable for deer hunting need to look at those energies. Given you have practiced at those ranges, know your dope, rifle and your capabilities. Would I take that shot again? Maybe, if conditions were right and I anticipate the target is going to be stationary for enough time. A good place to see low velocity bullet testing is SimpleMindedFellow here on KZread. He tests reduced loads in gel. Very impressive testing with some surprising outcomes. Go to his playlist and check out his 6.5cm bullet testing (Hornady ELDM & Nosler ABLR). The velocities with decent performance, (if going by gel alone) are suprising.

You could make a whole channel on testing bullets like this. You did test a LR -V- Match bullet at close range. For hunting test the SST. Would like to see the Hunting bullets tested at 100 yards at realistic impact velocities as this is also the distance for accuracy testing ....PLEASE keep making these test videos.

@circuit_stu

2 жыл бұрын

Check out Simple Minded Fella’s channel. He tests bullets at different velocities.

@DinoNucci

2 жыл бұрын

This!

@GUMONPS

2 жыл бұрын

Now that we are seeing the rapid expansion of the ELDM, we need to see how it compares to an expansion bullet like the SST. So yeah, we need a series from UR.

@jjgriffin3275

2 жыл бұрын

Alaskan Ballistics does this

@MrT13

2 жыл бұрын

It’s not rocket surgery though honestly. Shot placement and actual caliber are so much more important. Why be picky about bullets in every scenario under the sun.

ive been dying to see this exact test, so much so that i was looking into getting ballistic gel myself, thank you for saving me the headache, looked like yall had way more fun than i would of

For all the commentary regarding planning and preparation to create the perfect test with infallible results, how the hell do they change a factor in the testing medium by removing one gel block from the second shot? Also why not take maybe two or three shots with each round to compare consistency?

1st question: yes I would and have hunted with 140 ELDM on deer in west Tennessee excellent results 2nd question harvest a deer use actual rib cage with hide in front of gel with high speed, also I agree there's infinite bullets to test I personally would like to see the same slow speed footage at say 185-225 yards ( easly an ethical hunting distance) to see what happens to the bullets when speed starts dropping. Absolutely love all the data points, great work guys! Stay safe and God bless

@MikeBarnesActual

2 жыл бұрын

At 300 yards

@handcannon1388

2 жыл бұрын

I mostly agree with you, but would like to see two shots - one at

@John-uo1qf

2 жыл бұрын

Let’s just see an elk taken with each at 400 yards?

@robertmason5383

2 жыл бұрын

I have aimed it ribs to grenade through the vitals as long as it stayed out of the back straps.

@Desert_Muley

2 жыл бұрын

@@handcannon1388 I was thinking along the same lines. This test demonstrates the effects on soft tissue. What happens when the match bullet impacts bone? I think the match bullet would disintegrate while the hunting bullet would hold together better because of the thicker jacket. Also I noticed the match bullet ended up sideways in the gel while the hunting bullet did not. Does the match bullet have a greater tendency to tumble? Very interesting video. Given these bullets are very similar I agree with Gavin I would use the ELDX for hunting.

I would NOT have hunted with the ELD-M before this video, but now, no problem, especially at what I typically shoot game at under 300 yards. Great video, very informative

@joshuahunt1210

Жыл бұрын

Do you shoot animals at 2700 fps? They botched the test. Don't fall for it until they slow the velocity down and/or extend the distance. He built a "1/4 rifle but he can't set the block 100 yards away to test it correctly? Not saying the ELD-M isn't up to snuff, but don't follow these test results just yet.

@redtra236

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuahunt1210 ELD-M tends to expand better at lower velocities so is better at longer range, plus is still adequate(although not as good) at close range. Overall for whitetail I think match is better at least out of the .308 I use.

Production quality on this channel is a cut above. Outstanding.

I would also love to see this same test repeated at lower velocities to simulate shots at longer ranges

@KeithDecker

2 жыл бұрын

There is a long range hunting Group channel here on KZread that already did that. 308 instead of 6.5

@bravo09010901

2 жыл бұрын

@@KeithDecker I'm not sure if KZread will let you or not, but could you drop a link to the video?

Seems like a more realistic test would be to reduce the velocity to something realistic to a hunting impact velocity. Then keep reducing the velocity till you find the velocity where it doesn't reliably expand anymore.

@corporalpunishment1133

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed.👍

@jestes7

2 жыл бұрын

Is ballistic gel cheap and easy to make?

@corporalpunishment1133

2 жыл бұрын

@@jestes7 I think it's quite expensive but I'm not the one buying it.

@stevepuyear2738

2 жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly. Also, put some carpeted plywood in front of the gel blocks to simulate hide and bone before entering the vital cavity.

@JohnDoe-zs6gj

2 жыл бұрын

@@jestes7 A lot of people make their own at home, and it's often not clear or the right density. If they spent a lot for this stuff, it was to get it clear and also to have the correct density, most likely the FBI standard for testing.

Just fascinating to watch terminal ballistics produced so professionally! MUCH THANKS for all the hard work gents! I continue to be a happy subscriber… Keep up the excellent work!!!

Small nitpick regarding the black marks inside the gel: it appears to me that they are scorch marks from the combustion of the trapped gasses instead of pulling in any blanket material. When you were doing the frame-by-frame side-by-side scrubbing, you can see clean gel before the flash, the flash in the next frame, and suddenly scorch marks in the frames after that.

@mr.peabody3509

9 ай бұрын

Agree. Good observation.

@Who-fk2of

5 ай бұрын

Sonar luminance

@bowhunt9968

Күн бұрын

Yes........there is no way that "blanket material" got drug into the bullet channel

I love how you "nerd out" on these tests and give us the specifics. This stuff does make a difference if a guy get a coveted tag like a bighorn or hot elk area.

@pcjpcj4070

2 жыл бұрын

Yep it was a good test. I wanted to see the jacket results. Shoot the 270 eldx out of the 338 lapua.

I'd hunt with an ELD-M for sure. These results look pretty good. The temporary wound channel was pretty close if not identical. The permanent would channel does look slightly larger with the ELD-X, but I'm sure the deer will look the same in my freezer with either of these bullets.

@pcjpcj4070

2 жыл бұрын

Until you hit a rib or pull to a shoulder at closer ranges. Better be ready to reload quick or track for miles. Been there multiple times with other hunters and my Wife swearing by the match. When it works out at 600-700 yards great when it doesn't at 200-300 its a crappy day sometimes into the night.

@MrT13

2 жыл бұрын

@@cole4406 the host of the show… yes deer run sometimes. Back to that old saying. Shot placement is far more important than anything else… bullet or caliber.

@MrT13

2 жыл бұрын

@@pcjpcj4070 that’s the age old problem huh. Europe likes the Grenade types like vld. Here we want 40” of penetration cause what if. But if you just knew what you were shooting with what it sorta all has it’s plus and minus deals. Lot of long range hunters use smk’s go figure. I say if your not going to shoot a real caliber make sure you shoot it well. Like if you can’t tie a knot tie a lot kinda deal.

@variableknife4702

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure there's really a reason to hunt with a match bullet. Given the expense of any hunt, desire for a clean harvest etc - proper bullet selection is pretty important. Shoulders, especially do a real number on bullets. I've seen more than a few basically blow apart hitting a shoulder joint. The end results can really be upsetting on a number of levels. Does some desire to economize or a lack of time to sight in, learn your drop table etc really make up for any risk of this happening? A-Frame, TSX, TTSX, Partition, Oryx etc - they have a reputation for a reason.

@pcjpcj4070

2 жыл бұрын

@@StewartCountyBallistics Gave an real example on a rib bone that actually happen in the field. Guess some people are too dense to quantify bone is bone and match are soft and at high velocities they splatter on bone. As I stated, they are good at longer ranges where the velocities are lower and they can hold together, but you may not have been able to comprehend that far so you've probably already strained your mind after the first sentence and haven't made it this far again.

Thanks for tackling this question. I can only find match ammo for 6.5 CM. I think the deer drops either way if I do my part. What I suspected.

@kwadebruce9134

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, components are not easy to find. Go with what the store has

@quityourfuckincryin

Жыл бұрын

Ive shot 2 whitetails, a mule deer and an antelope with the 140 grain eld M bullets. Furthest at 510, closest at 128. Clean and rapid kills.

Awesome test! You guys put a lot of work into this. I will say, the 147 grain eld match vs the 143 eld x would be very interesting to see however.

Ive taken 2 mule deer with a 130 nosler rdf in a 6.5 prc at 3050 fps. One at 800 yards and the other at 430. Both hydrostatic shock. Both bullets passed all the way through.

It was violent enough to rip the material up from the cargo blanket! That’s amazing! Awesome video! Thanks!

Beautiful footage. Really appreciate the work that went into this

I would use either bullet for deer hunting. I’ve used the 143 ELD-X for Elk hunting in northern arizona. Using the factory Hornady precision hunter ammo in 6.5PRC, and it is a horrible for larger tougher game. Shot was at just over 300 yards. The bullet impacted directly on the onside shoulder, the bullet blew up and didn’t even penetrate to the onside lung. The shot shocked the animal enough that he just stood there shivering. Second shot was within an inch of the first, same exact result. Third shot was with a custom loaded 127LRX from my hunting buddy, it was taken at same distance, from a little bit of a quartering in angle, went in at the front of the onside shoulder, went all the way through and exited the animal on the offside shoulder and blew that shoulder out. Bullet was not recovered on the LRX. When we dressed the animal, yes, the damage from the ELD-X was great, but for only about 3-5 inches, and then they were stopped. The LRX wound channel was immense, and catastrophic. The ELD bullets are great DEER bullets. But not a good choice for larger, heavier, thicker skinned/boned game.

I’d like to see a comparison between cutting edge Bullets and Barnes and maybe the Hornady GMX series… basically wanting to see how the solid Bullets performed.

@Kandyman54

2 жыл бұрын

I killed 2 caribou using Barnes 178gr TTX factory loads in .30-06 at just over 100 yards. Each received a second shot even though both first shots were well placed lung shots. No bullets were recovered. There was very little tissue damage and you could eat right up to the bullet hole. Alaska Ballistics opined that this bullet requires higher velocity than the ‘06 is capable of delivering. A lighter version of the same bullet might perform better with this cartridge.

@hikenmikes8262

2 жыл бұрын

I have shot deer with both the Barnes TTSX and the Cutting Edge Raptor. Hands down the Raptor does more internal damage with its 6 blades that separate from the front 1/3 or so of the bullet. Very spectacular kills for a nonlead bullet.

I conducted an almost identical test a few years ago with nearly identical results. What I found was that the eld would come apart slightly more at high velocity due to the thinner jacket and lack of an internal cannelure to lock the core and jacket together, while also requiring about 200 fps more velocity to initiate expansion vs the eldx due to the lack of an air cavity under the tip. Both are perfectly suitable for thin skinned medium game. As far as using dedicated match bullets for hunting, that varies depending on the bullet. The SMK can be quite unpredictable as far as its fragmentation characteristics go, while the Berger vld has a much more proven track record. Even the match Bergers are consistent performers, again requiring about 200 fps more than their hunting counterparts. One of my favorites for my 22-6mm is the berger 90gr vld at 3400 fps and I can say with 100% certainty it kills whitetails like a lightning bolt.

@preacherbiggin

2 жыл бұрын

My hunting buddy and myself have noticed the same results with the match kings. Consistently inconsistent expansion.

@supercomp65

2 жыл бұрын

@@preacherbiggin Tipped matchkings on the other hand, are very explosive above 2k fps. They almost act like a vmax but with significantly more penetration due to the greater weight. Very nasty projectile

Yes I would and do hunt with the match bullet. This exact one! I hunt whitetails in Missouri and they have performed perfect for me! Great video

Given that the ELDx are extremely hard to find I would consider using it for deer (mule, coues, eastern whitetail), but I wouldn’t use it for Elk. Awesome video!

I'd like to see a deer hide and rib bones added to the test. It would be interesting to see what that harder impact surface does to the bullets.

@cadetbooth

2 жыл бұрын

Ballistic gel is a substitute for tissue and bones not just tissue.

@scottrossingnol6034

2 жыл бұрын

@@cadetbooth, Where are you finding anything referring to it simulating bones as well? Every manufacturer I can find only refers to it simulating tissue specifically and makes no mention of bones.

@tjrepka5136

2 жыл бұрын

@@cadetbooth totally incorrect! Only simulates tissue and that's without tendons or bone

@3421958

2 жыл бұрын

@@cadetbooth Let’s think about this. Bone is quite hard. Gel is soft. How can a soft substance simulate a hard object accurately?

@tjrepka5136

2 жыл бұрын

@@don_kandon6006 I'm going off my own experience of actually putting bullets in game animals and not a simulation. Nothing compares to living tissue.

Definitely keep the same number of blocks on the table to assure block flex or movement is not impacting the results. Secondly, I think it would be great to do the same comparison between the ELD-X and the A-Tip. Including the GMX is fine if desired, but you must include the ELD-X as a “control” to be able to account for any environmental or gel differences. That’s the only way to keep the hunting vs. match bullets for hunting comparison valid. Ideally doing more than one round of each so that you have a larger sampling population would be more valid statistically, but the extra time, expense, etc. may make that prohibitive. I would also suggest impacting the gel at lower velocities to simulate farther distances but realize the extra cost and effort is huge. Still, that would closer answer the original question. Excellent testing procedure IMO so far, very informative, and even as a long term follower, Gavin you continue to impress me with what you do and how you do it. Amazing!

Thank you so much for doing this experiment. I purchased 4 boxes of 140 grain ELDM last year with the intent to hunt whitetail with them but, I received a lot of criticism for it. I am now comfortable and confident with them and I will be using them.

I went looking for this video, and you guys NAILED IT! Thank you so much for doing this. Exactly what I was looking for.

I don’t see enough difference to worry about it (a lot). This was extra fun to watch! Would love to see something similar with 6.5 Grendel.

Agree with Gavin given the accuracy of the X and it’s slight performance edge that would be my choice. Would love to see more tests like this comparing the terminal performance of bullets especially if you can keep the caliber the same across tests.

Great video. I'm happy to see professional work on KZread.

Absolutely great test and thanks for all y’all do

I shot a 250 lb caribou at around 200 yards with a hornady black 6.5 grendel I believe that is a match bullet (correct me if I'm wrong) and he was DRT, from a heart lung shot.

I LOVE the precision with which you conducted this test. Very professional but still approachable A+ guys!

Gavin and Travis, I was really excited to see you were doing this experiment. You see I have been using 168 grain Sierra Match Kings for hog and deer hunting out of a .30-06 for years with great success. Everyone tried to shame me for doing so, but the results spoke for themselves. I have never shot an animal that wasn't a bang, flop or at least dropped in my line of sight after my first testing on hogs indicated that I must keep the velocity down around 2600 FPS which gave me through penetration. Early on used H4350 don't remember the grain weight but as soon as I encountered Varget switched to 45.5 grains under the Match King. Been using them for near 40 yrs and if the .30-06 comes out of the case it is what I use. Thanks for showing I was not crazy.

Thank you for an excellent video. Any testing you can do in any cartridge is valuable information. I hope you can do more.

I didn’t expect the eld match to hold together that well. Nice surprise. It would be interesting if a heavy bone were to be molded a few inches into the first block. That would be a semi-realistic test of the bullets performance. God bless!

@RedvsBluechurch1

Жыл бұрын

Check out "long range hunting group" he uses a rack of ribs in front of his gel block to simulate a real shot.

I would like to see measurements for the depth to the start of expension, the maximum cavity width, the depth of penetration and same test at a lower velocity (1600 to 1800) fps to simulate expension at long range.

@DinoNucci

2 жыл бұрын

This!

Best gel block footage that I have seen anywhere. Exceptional job. Not surprising, coming from you guys...

Originally, I had my doubts about the effectiveness of a match bullet as compared to a hunting bullet. While at the gun counter one day, I struck up a conversation with a fellow hunter who had much more experience hunting with match bullets and was able to shed light on this question. I then purchased two boxes of Hornady AMAX165 gn for my .308. So, for the past four hunting seasons, I've used Hornady 165 gn AMAX match 30 cal bullets for harvesting my white tail deer at 200 yards with zero issues. My deer ran 10-30 feet from where the animal was struck. Two were instant kills. So I would say that hunting with a match Hornady in my case is ethical.

@chipsterb4946

2 жыл бұрын

Since I can’t find any .308 hunting bullets this is awesome to know. Thanks!

@Sanus180

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve run 168amax out of my 308 for years - just ran out of bullets so switching around to the 168 ELDM but first trying some 178amax just for interest sake as I had some left over from my 300wm (and btw the accuracy of the 178 in my 308 rem700 on the 178 at 100m is excellent. So see how they run at 200m and then on game - just have to rezero first).

@claytonbruner1808

Жыл бұрын

I think more hunters are starting to consider match bullets, especially the ELD match bullets for hunting as the understanding of the efficiency of high BC's becomes more commonly talked about. A bullet that deflects the wind more efficiently loses velocity more slowly and in turn carries more potential energy downrange. The caveat in my mind is that a hunter shooting game at longer distances needs to place a limit on distance based on velocity so that there is enough energy to make an ethical kill.

@grantnorthcott5112

Жыл бұрын

@@claytonbruner1808 I believe that 1000 foot pounds on a deer should be the minimum for a humane kill. I won’t shoot an animal if it’s over 400 meters distant since at that range, the terminal energy for my bullet falls at or just under that 1000 ftlb mark.

Great test, appreciate the insight. I would stick with ELDX for hunting. Better penetration. Bone impacts may separate them even further.

@portermcmichael756

2 жыл бұрын

This is where my mind went. The significant increase in jacket thickness of the eldx would, I imagine, improve weight retention with bone impacts.

@JohnDoe-zs6gj

2 жыл бұрын

I recently switched away from them specifically because of their lack of penetration. Had a few broadside whitetail at close range that didn't have an exit wound. Still died, but not a blood trail to speak of. Probably would do better at a longer range/ slower velocity, but close range was having some bullet failures with I assume on bone impact(one thing ballistics gel will never represent.) Giving monolithics a try this year, first one poked through easily and had a very nice blood trail.

@yl3064

2 жыл бұрын

Better penetration throught what? I have shot Whitetails : complete pass through with the 140 M with enough devastation that I cant show the pictures ( blood & tissues ) but in your mind it may???? may??? what ever youll shoot, it will kill. dont shoot the Quads, keep your shots in vitals and stop worrying about the : may???? its scary… confidence in you and gear.

@yl3064

2 жыл бұрын

@@portermcmichael756 OMG have you shoot on real game in your life? not talking about squirrels here …

@jasonmcalpin993

Жыл бұрын

I tested the140 ELDM out of my 6.5-300 weatherby through a fresh whitetail shoulder that was strapped in front of 3 gel blocks at 100yds. The bullet performed great, it left a huge permanent wound cavity and was 81.2 grains after being recovered.

Very interesting! I have a friend who says that match bullets work well for hunting whitetail deer… I was skeptical… but no longer! I will stick with my 143 ELDX but wouldn’t hesitate to use the 140 ELDM! I would be very interested to see the 6.5 Grendel tested with 123 ELDM VS. 123 SST

I am a 2A activist in Kalifornia and a shooting sports enthusiast known as The Always Outdoorsman. (website and business entity coming this Fall 2022). I am new to the subject of precision rifle shooting and reloading. I don't hunt... yet. My Great Uncle passed away before he could teach me how. This is my 1st time seeing you guys and WOW, THANK YOU!! Based on this incredibly detailed test, I would hunt with the hunting bullet, but if the match grade shoots tighter groups, I would use the match grade for competition. Otherwise I would use the hunting bullet for competition as well. I'm starting my research for my 1st precision rifle, contacting pro match competitors to get their advice for rifle brands, calibers, scopes, setups, etc. etc. for an entry level rifleman. For future testing, since I am also planning to start reloading pistol & rifle calibers, I would like to see a .308 match bullet face-off for groupings. Maybe the top 5 popular match grade bullet brands, matched as closely as possible so that the only variable tested is the brand. Then do the same for .223 match grade bullets. (you may have done this testing already, I'll search). More suggestions later as my newbie questions arise. Thanks again, ... I'm GEEKING OUT!! 🙂

This is my first time watching your channel, I must say that I am impressed very professional with excellent content, keep up the good work. Just subscribed.

I would recommend that you shoot blocks at velocity that would simulate 50,100, and 200 yards. Point blank gel block video's are not an apple to apple comparison to what his going to happen in real world. I would recommend that you move back the Yardage in actual distance, or down load to simulate what a ballistic's program says that the velocity would be. The approach of down loading to simulate various distances, would be a game changer for You tube video's. I thank you for making your video and you have done a very, very good job, which is why I make the suggestion....kick it up a notch! FOLKS will love the revealing results!

I hunt with match bullets and have great success. I would like to see more bullet tests from other manufactures at distances that would be practical for hunting out west. If you could do 6.5 prc with 153 atip vs Berger 156 eol.

Love the show, thanks for doing this stuff. One thing I think I noticed in this comparison that I didn't hear about is the seemingly larger wound cavity left by the ELDX? I believe that would provide some margin for error in shot placement? Just a thought.

Love this! Thanks for your work putting this together. Would really like to see more similar comparisons of bullet types, love to see more comparisons of monolithics for rifles. Seems to be where a lot of hunters are heading to reduce any possibilities of potential lead poisoning. In addition, some states are requiring the aforementioned. Thanks again and love it when you geek out on this stuff.

Thank you for doing this test. I'm reloading a 7mm WSM and the only bullets on the shelf for 7mm are the 162g ELD-Match. If I had the option to chose, I would go with a 'hunting' bullet, but that choice literally doesn't exist for me at this time. I now feel fully comfortable using the ELD-Match as a hunting round.

I would really like to see the Nosler Ballistic Tip, Nosler Accubond LR & Nosler Partition compared & contrasted. Any of the lead free/all copper offerings would be very interesting comparisons to the cup and core & bonded styles available today. Thank you for the fantastic footage and data.

@cooperbybee4308

2 жыл бұрын

I Second...Partition for sure

@Peter-od7op

2 жыл бұрын

I love partition bullets killed many moose with them. But would never use 6.5 caliber on big game.

@cooperbybee4308

2 жыл бұрын

@@Peter-od7op lol I second that also!

@guardianminifarm8005

2 жыл бұрын

@@Peter-od7op Good point. Perhaps a larger caliber like a 7mm or 30 cal. If possible.

@Peter-od7op

2 жыл бұрын

@@guardianminifarm8005 ty this creedmore craze has gotten out of hand. I watch desertdog and the real gunsmith these 2 are great oh and not to forget. Gunblue490

I hunt with the .224 73 grain ELD-M for hogs and coyotes. Cheap to load and expand really well. For nuisance game they work great and haven’t had anything go more than 30 yards. Of course shot placement always plays a big roll.

@nsob8897

2 жыл бұрын

Hogs must be some tough S.O.B.s to take a whack anywhere on the body from that and keep truckin. Never hunted them...they haven't made their way up into my state yet. Not that I know of..

@craesh1001

2 жыл бұрын

@@nsob8897 the boars get literal shield from around the neck area to past the front shoulder once they get big enough. Shot one that weighed 372 pounds and you could have beat it with a bat and not made a dent

@nsob8897

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah they get that meaty neck for fighting and taking nasty swipes from each other's tusks don't they? I'm sure they've caused more than a few stern men to tinkle a bit when they've been charged. Not that I'd admit to it if it happened to me. Haha

Awesome job guys. Very well thought out and executed video. Thank you!!

Excellent approach and review! Thank you gentlemen- so appreciate you!

*Would love to see this test with Berger VLD vs Berger Hunting Bullets!*

@barrykennedy9947

2 жыл бұрын

I have used 175 gr VLD in a 300wm whitetail hunting with great success.

@horsefly1020

2 жыл бұрын

Their hunting vld used to be a match vld years ago. They work good I've shot several deer with them

Great video guys! I wonder what the effect is at distance as the projectiles looses energy. If the differences you are seeing are exponential and therefore much different that you see here. You guys should get the body gels with the bones and blood and simulate the shooting at a longer distance to see if at 300-400 yards what it looks like. Clearly Travis can take a look at the body and the cavity and easily give his medical opinion on what that person would look like in real life. Regardless - very cool and interesting stuff. My guess is that up to 600 yards almost any 140g projectile shot at 2700-2800 fps will have enough energy and penetration to make it a very bad day for anything sub 300-400 pounds on the receiving end.

I can't speak for the bullets themselves. But I can tell you I have a friend who guides Elk hunts. His ranch took over 300 Elk this past year. I've been using a 308 but now looking for a new cartridge to hunt Elk with so, I thought 'I'd ask him since he would know what works best. In short he told me what he and his guides like to see their hunters come out to hunt with. What he said to me was, get a 7mm mag, a 30-06, a 270 works good, 308 works too, 6/5 PRC, or a 300 short mag. Now there were others but he said these are the ones that seem to perform best based on his 20 years of guiding. I asked after he gave me this list, well, what about the 65CM? He said, oh... we call that the, 6/5 Needmoor. HAHAHAHA

I have always hunted with match bullets 22, 257 and 308..... They work very well... Remember accuracy is far more important. Say 600 yards it is the difference from a lung shot and a gut shot...

I wonder what the effect would be of building a "roof" over your gel blocks so they don't jump. Or does this distort the manner in which the energy gets dumped into the gel?

BTHP bullets would be really cool to see!

@kennybaseball17

2 жыл бұрын

i was thinking the same thing.

This was a perfect test for my needs because I just got a 6.5 CM and bought some 143 ELD-X bullets for hunting. Thank you!

Wow this was an excellent video! Amazing quality 👏

@Ultimatereloader

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

The real test is on game with bone, tendons, and hide. I've hunted with target bullets before and it's a totally different outcome vs gel. Yes the bullet did the job and killed it but why settle for marginal when you got way better options for hunting bullets. Prefer guarantee performance vs a gamble. Which is what you get from target bullets.

@pcjpcj4070

2 жыл бұрын

Yep seen it multiple time when the match hits a rib or someone trys to square off on a shoulder. 6.5x284, 6.5 prc or a 264 winmag with a little more velocity would have shown way different results in the gel

Great video. I know this would be repetitive, but I would like to see maybe Sierra match versus hunting. I wonder if this is a Hornady phenomenon or is this a result that is true industry wide. I also am surprised that the hunting bullet didn't perform differently from the match bullet.

Just FYI - if you want to minimize gel block "jump", place them on a four inch foam pad. "Jump" is markedly minimized. (Referencing "TargetSuite" and his experimentation). Regarding your question "would I hunt" with a match bullet - well, before this test my automatic response would have been "No". After this test? Not so ready to rule out match bullets. My personal expectation (before test) was zero expansion and overpenetration. I was actually surprised by your results. Good job. 👍

Excellent video guys!!! Great data and testing!!!

Would be great to do a similar video with comparative products. Sierra Gamechanger vs Eldx vs accubond (LR) vs Berger VLD vs Barnes Lr. Other videos have been done to a similar degree, but your scientific approach and high speed camera work would serve to provide consumers with better data from which to make decisions. Added to that, perhaps doing the comparison at 100 yards, 300 yards and 500 yards.

@Joeatsaco69

Жыл бұрын

Cool idea. That would be more of a manufacturer vs manufacturer test than an M vs X style test. But a good test. But then we get into BC differences as well. Rabbit hole here we go. Fun science.

Awesome 👏🏻 love having this in my favorites collection I’d love to see Berger Long Range Hybrid Target vs Hornady ELD Match off the shelf cartridges compared Based on this I’d have no problems hunting with ELDM but if ELDX was readily available for a reasonable amount then I’d be inclined to get some now

@Ultimatereloader

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ron! Good call on Berger…

Love this stuff and reminds me of the day someone forgot to put the wet blanket over the ballistic soap and spending hours cleaning it off the walls and test kit, but we did have nice clean soft hands when we finished.I think forget which bullet is used and just look at the wound cavity in the blocks, the left looks to me to have the bigger cavity, more material moved out and a bigger needed to do that. As for how far the go in is not much interest as it is that explosion/ jellying of organs that kills and,in most cases it has gone out the body by then anyway. Soap has one plus point the cavity stays and you can fill it with plaster of paris and save it but harder to cut with a .

Best informative channel on KZread. Great job Gavin on the channel and great job guys on this video

Would love to see more gel tests, all different bullet types, brands, fired from a variety of cartridges, etc. Especially hunting bullets. There is a lack of this kind of content on KZread. It would be nice to know the actual terminal performance for bullets rather than relying on anecdotal evidence from others who have tried them before. It would help people a lot to make an informed decision when choosing a hunting bullet for the first time, or for those who want to branch out from their old standby, or just for those looking for a bullet that shoots well in a particular rifle and then are concerned how that bullet might perform on game.

I would have liked to have seen an inner lock and an inner bond in this test

Thanks for putting this together! I'd like to see a downloaded round to sub 2200 fps, maybe 1800 if possible to compare terminal ballistics at a typical LR hunting engagement range where I would actually be using one of these over something like a Partition.

This is awesome. I know quite a few hunters that use 140 eld-m and have had great success. One even started out with the 143 ELD-X and stopped using it for the 140 eld-m as he have better results with it. I currently use 140 eld-m hand loads at 2800fps but I'm not opposed to using the 143's.

This has been a big question for me, love the video. I have a ton of ammo that is eld match, and was wondering about this very thing. I also have a super load in my 300 PRC with 230 A tips, and would be super curious how they would perform for hunting. Great video guys!

@andrewtisdale4186

2 жыл бұрын

Hi there. A friend of mine in the ammo industry did some test with A Tips and determined they don't expand and make for poor hunting loads.

I hunt elk with the 215gr Hybrids out of a 300WM, Mule Deer with the 178gr ELD-M out of a 308Win and Antelope with 140gr VLD Target out of 6.5CM. All have performed flawlessly.

@pcjpcj4070

2 жыл бұрын

I actually use a 338 lapua on anything over 1000, 28 nossler or 264 win mag on the rest. But most people believe the 6.5 creed takes down elephats at 6000 yards.

@TheHybridHunter307

2 жыл бұрын

@@pcjpcj4070 and flies straight, through hurricane force winds

Repeat this test by adding a bone into the gel setup. This could dramatically change the results as the thinner jacket is likely to fragment much more. A beef rib bone, broad and flat, could be a suitable start

This is a awesome idea. I love the possibilities this series has for providing data to people who don't want or dont have funds or time to do these test at this high level. I really would like to see the match and hunting rounds from sierra in this test.

I'll admit I was surprised in the weight retention. I thought the hunting bullet would be closer to 90% and the match would fragment or be closer to 50%.

I’ve shot deer with ELD match in 6.5 CM, I haven’t had issues with dropping game with them. Great bullets, shot placement is key.

@ImageThisPhoto

2 жыл бұрын

Ever hit a shoulder with one? If so, did it blow apart and damage a lot of meat? My concern is shot placement when using target bullets.

@NorthRiverGuide

2 жыл бұрын

@@ImageThisPhoto I've put eld match out of 6.5cm through deer shoulders, they go through and dont seem to blow up more or less than any similar bullet

@chrisnegenman

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve only hit heart/lungs. Haven’t noticed any reason to not use them. The inside of the animal is the same as any other bullets I’ve used.

Shot 2 Deer in November with this exact bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor by Hornady. Deer #1 Buck185 lbs. ran 10yards dropped. Deer #2 205 lbs. Zero yards dropped in tracks. These bullets are the real deal. Similar experiences in all Hornady bullets top notch. 6.5 Precision Hunter by Hornady a great round for an aging hunter (me) or anyone wanting to reduce recoil. Great channel thanks.

I agree with the A-TIP idea. I would really like to see the results for that. Thanks for doing this test!!

Cool video. Personally, I’d only hunt with the hunting bullet, but I see how well the match bullet could perform. I’d be interested in seeing a comparison between .327 & .357 defensive loads.

Gavin, great work once again. I've always been curious how Berger bullets perform hunters vs match next? I have used ELD-X bullets in 2 different calibers and had varying results from full fragmentation after impacting a rib upon entry, to perfect expansion resting against the far hide, to pass throughs at the same distances while shooting deer. I have since switched to Barnes because I like the idea of not poisoning my meat, nor the scavengers that clean up after my kills. This video gets me thinking that this test should be re-ran at minimum accepted velocities/ft.lbs to see where the real difference lies. Say for elk, 1,800 fps/1,200 ft.lbs energy which ever comes first? Also, the TSX vs GMX. Sierra TGK vs TMK. E-tip vs TTSX. You have tons of work to keep you busy with this topic, but it will generate mega buzz. I hope you are well!

Like you guys said, the results were more similar than I thought they'd be also. I personally use a Suppressed Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor shooting the 140 ELDM at a muzzle velocity of 2820fps. The ELDM is my one bullet to do everything from shooting paper to red & sika deer here in New Zealand. I have had unbelievably good results on the range & in the field.. The rifle has been used in a guided hunting operation & shot a fair few deer from near to far... It's a rifle/cartridge combination clients shoot well. Thanks for the excellent video guys..👍

Great job and outstanding photography guys! 1) Given the choice for hunting I would choose the bullet designed for hunting. That said if all I had access to was a bullet designed for match use, you can be sure that wouldn’t stop me from going hunting. Remember a lot of deer sized (and larger) game has been killed with 22 LR… 2) I would be interested in seeing a similar test but with more real world “effects” in and on the gel. Put some hide on the front surface of the gel block and place a decent piece of bone behind it. This might change the outcome and deliver the shallow penetration and increased fragmentation we expected with the ELD-M. Also see if you can measure the temporary and permanent wound cavities as well as how deep these cavities started after impact.

Amazing test. I'd like to see the SMK (BTHP) and how they perform. I use them for years very succesfully but people tell me that they're not ethical to use, wouldn't expand and things like that. I've definitely made a different experience. Expansion and devastating performance on game.

@benclimbing

2 жыл бұрын

I'm looking for info on using the SMK's for hunting too, would you mind sharing what SMK weights and calibers you've used? I'm looking at using 250gr SMK's out of a 338 with mv of about 2850. Any help appreciated.

@borkwoof696

2 жыл бұрын

At which distances do you shoot game with them?

@MrSchnyderli

2 жыл бұрын

@@borkwoof696 out to 500 Meters

@borkwoof696

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrSchnyderli how well do they work within 100 and 200 yards?

@MrSchnyderli

2 жыл бұрын

@@benclimbing 200gr in .300 WinMag

I wonder if the third block sitting in behind the second from the ELDX test would have had an impact on the ELDM test if it backed up the second?

@jesusisalive3227

2 жыл бұрын

I think the m would have penetrated farther with a third block.

@KeithDecker

2 жыл бұрын

In the name of science why did they remove the third block? DO EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME!

This video is awesome! I love your guy’s excitement over the results! Thank you for taking the time to set this up and break it down so carefully. I do agree with some of the other comments that a test at velocities expected at longer ranges would be very useful. I would also love to see the same type of test done with the traditional lead core hunting bullet, compared to a solid copper non toxic hunting bullet like the TTSX. I know a lot of people are totally against the non toxic bullets. I don’t have a choice since I live in California. But, I do not like the idea of feeding my family meat that could potentially have lead in it (I didn’t comment here to debate this matter), so I am not totally against using non toxic ammo for hunting.

This was a very interesting post! thank you!

At this point in time. I would hunt with either one I could find in stock.... :-) Price could be a factor also.

@taylorbokshowan5713

2 жыл бұрын

At this point powder is an issue so we can just use our slingshots to launch rocks

Not all match bullets are the same type of bullet. For example the ELD M vs a Sierra MatchKing. Any of these polymer tipped bullets would be fine for most hunting applications. But for hunting I want as much penetration as possible while still having maximum expansion and weight retention. I'll take hunting bullets for that reason. ....Think you are on the animal of a lifetime. He has your sent and is standing extreme quartering to you. He is about to take off. Only shot is right through the front chest/ shoulder. I want a bullet that will get through the other end.

Please make this it's own series! I love this kind of data!

I've been shooting the the Amax for some 20 odd years in the South for whitetails. Longest kill is 1102 yds with the 162 gr / 7mm mag. My buddy shot his at 1065 yds with the 7 mag. The deer never took a step. We also used the ELDMs in Africa for plains game animals. I shot my Kudu with the 180 gr eldm at 920 yds with the 7 mag. Same effect. One of my buddies was shooting the 6.5 Creedmore using the ELDX and drop a zebra at 505 yds. I think both bullets work extremely well. I feel that the ELDM does more damage to the heart and lungs, but both bullets do massive damage. I also use the 108 ELDM in my .243 with the same results out to 400 yds on deer. Hornady has done an excellent job with their design.

Excellent work (as always). Here are my thoughts: 1) No. I wouldn't hunt with either -- not when consistently expanding bonded bullets are available, AND excellent expanding lead-free bullets are available. I WOULD, however, not fear using a match bullet in "combat" -- and that is no small consideration since I always judge "gun stuff" from the perspective of "prepping." 2) I'd be especially interested in comparisons between these sorts of bullets vs expanding bonded bullets, to see if the bonded bullets are as FAR superior as I tend to think they would be. 3) I'd be very interested in practical work from you with lead-free bullets. Are their BC shortcomings significant? Is their wounding damage significantly different from what you have tested? 4) I'd like to see work involved reduced velocity loads, to demonstrate wounding effect at longer ranges.

Either way you cut it,that’s a dead animal. Curious about the new a-tip and how it would do in a hunting scenario

The other thing not taken into consideration in this test is the distance at which they were shooting. If you are shooting the factory loads (Precision Hunter for ELD-X and Match for the ELD-M) you will drop in velocity from 2,700 f/s to 2,200 f/s at 400 yards. I think those bullets would react very differently at those speeds. I know that the reason people never seem to test at longer distances is the practical considerations (hitting the ballistic gel, having cameras record properly, etc.) but I always wonder why no one seems to think of reducing the powder on the load until the muzzle velocity matches what it would be at a longer distance.

Very interesting information. Thanks.