Thanks for this comprehensive overview, you could add also the thoughts of David Ricardo on land, who I believe was contemporary to Malthus. However, what is bothering me is the idea that population growth and food demand is necessarily increasing linearly in their proportion. Most of the population growth in the last decades has taken place in so called emerging economies in the Global South. While the population growth rate is declining, the diets of the people in the countries is changing according to the economic condition. So, maybe we will see a rising food demand (or better said, more land use for the production of meat and dairy products) but not necessarily an equally growing population. Looking forward to your comment.

@elephantintheroom8609

3 жыл бұрын

Well, I agree that population and food supply aren't necessarily proportional, and that as populations get richer their demands on land increase. The Boserupian phase of the curve has to include this increasing demand per person to avoid Malthusian catastrophe, like famines, and I'm sure it hasn't always managed to do it. Provided the demand on land per person is not just limitless though, at some point total demand would peak and tip over into a more stable phase. There's maybe a helpful discussion about "ecological footprints" and sustainability in the Populations & Sustainabilty video on this channel (kzread.info/dash/bejne/np6izKyipLbIY6w.html). You could use the data at the bottom of that video to explore the risk in more detail.

Only consider that our economies across the world rely on economic growth, and economic growth relies on population growth. Aging nations such as in Japan already see 0% growth in their economies for decades. The global economy still expands due to population growth in other countries such as China, but this period apparently already came to an end. We have to re-think our economic models fast, or we are facing an unprecedented challenge.

@elephantintheroom8609

3 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more! The relationship between population and economic growth is discussed in another video in this series "Population & Sustainability - are we all doomed?" ( kzread.info/dash/bejne/np6izKyipLbIY6w.html ), and expanded on in "Is human inequality unnatural?" ( kzread.info/dash/bejne/npesqc-LopiznLQ.html ).

Was very helpful

Thank you

As far I know, there are several factors and a lot of contradictions. The equation will be correct IF politics, economic management, means of productions, etc... are not considered Unfortunately there are several factors, each one is a burden to the next one. I do not find those theories either wrong or right. Let's say: right now some people are starved to death, at the same time, somewhere else food wastage because over dated (best before of the end / used by). Even the word "food" is tricky, it may vary from area to area, because religion(s), intolerance, etc... . In my mind I have more questions and doubts than answers.

@elephantintheroom8609

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe the two theories in this video (separately or together) are really too simple to account for complicated reality. They're simple models after all, even though they reflect some of the political positions we sometimes adopt. I suppose the question is, do things like politics and economic management change the fundamental "limits to growth" idea these models are about?

@Pier-wy6dd

3 жыл бұрын

​@@elephantintheroom8609 Thank you for your reply. I also like your insightful approach to the topic. Nevertheless " ....too simple to account for complicated reality"; yes, I totally agree. If it is a genuine story (Tomatoes and greed - the exodus of Ghana's farmers ), it also is a good example how political-economic factors affect - more or less - people around the world. Of course there will be growth limits; however, the equation "food : people = pro-capita" exclude all other factors. About my life, too many decades in the food industry, including (some) nasty things in plants and animals I already saw it. Do not get me wrong, I try to be realistic in all aspects.