Would have been interesting to hear Howard talk!

@dossip2882

2 жыл бұрын

I know right - nick boy had to say something after every word he hears

@Luttrj

2 жыл бұрын

Truth!

@AdamDeAloe

2 жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly! Howard is incredibly patient, it drives me crazy being constantly interrupted like this.

Howard has the smoothest looking skin I have ever seen on an adult man. Looks baby bottom smooth. Howard's techniques on honing and stropping are the best I have seen on youtube, very basic and effective.

@michaelorsini9695

6 жыл бұрын

It just makes sense that a 30000 grit stone would be better for a final finisher than a piece of leather,...it's a no brainer. I bet even a 15 k stone would be better as a final finisher than a leather strop....????

I absolutely love these types of videos. This explains the "why" and the "how" behind the whole process. Very Informative nick shaves Thank you for this, and I hope there is more!

Fantastic video! It's so wonderful to listen to two guys who love understanding and want to pass that on but enjoy the process! Bravo guys!!!

Howard is a great teacher and very kind person. Thanks for this very interesting video Nick.

I don't know why this didn't show up in my feed when you originally published it, but man am I glad I came across it. This is a great discussion. Thanks, Nick!

What a nice guy Howard is. He speaks slowly like most knowledgeable people do. He's got a great sense of humor as well I find.

Awesome Nick!! Thank you for doing this video with Howard. Us "Wet shavers" love that you can capture this highly skilled art and can display it in your videos.

Great to see you on here Howard. Learning lots of interesting information. Thank you for the fine job bringing my old Dovo back to life 👍🏼. Great stuff Nick. As with Howard I had no idea you guys were just a few miles away.

This guy is PURE WISDOM.

7:03 Howard: I don't like using shaving soap Nick: confused nervous laughter

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

A lot of people on here haven't been shaving with straights very long. I'm at 16 years and have honed going on 6,500 razors. Standing in the basement for 16 years honing away, I've learned a lot of things which are counterintuitive to the new shaver.

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

It's the hanging strops which was the impetus for the study. Like you, we noticed that the razors were getting duller instead of sharper. The flat plate, sanded leather, four sided ones I'm using now are giving everybody extraordinarily smooth shaves without hurting the edge.

@philipsmart1453

5 жыл бұрын

@@howardschechter9768 Hi Howard. Do you use any compound or diamond liquid on the 4 sided, leather strop or do you just use the plain leather? Thanks for sharing your expertise.

@anthonydo2011

5 жыл бұрын

Philip Smart only leather, howard states in the video that he doesn’t use abrasive paste or liquids

crazy how someone knowladgeable, passionate and didactic can turn any topic into a interesting discussion !! Thanks from someone who loves to learn :)

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

as ty You're welcome! Actually I put most people to sleep talking about this stuff. Nick did a great job!

Geology Rocks! It really amazes me how much we can learn from traditional shaving, I really liked this video, most informative. Great job, Nick; my appreciation and admiration to Howard, he is a great guy for sharing his knowledge with us.

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

darolugo Thank you. I've been a rockhound since I was a kid, won two NSF scholarships to study geology at Syracuse U. when I was in high school and got my Bachelor's in geology at SUNY Albany. When I teach honing at various venues such as the New England School of Metalwork, I take a fist sized garnet crystal (the belgian honing component) and a 3" quartz crystal (the Arkansas component) with me to demonstrate the difference between slurry honing (Belgian style) and abrading style (Arkansas) and people GET it immediately. The mix of geology, metallurgy, and bladesmithing have brought me to where I am with razors.

Howard, a true master craftsman. Unfortunately, we don't see the likes of him that much anymore.

These vids are awesome Nick!

I like Howard. he's a smooth guy. his philosophy goes against what I see from many. but he seems to know what his talking about.

Wow - you are two towns over from me. I ran across this particular video from watching some of your other videos Nick. I found the Perfect Edge from a web search for around my area a few weeks ago when I bought a couple of vintage razors that needed honing. Small world. Would love to get a honing tutorial from Mr. Schechter.

what a cool guy. Love his life perspective.

Thanks for the video nick shaves . You rock man, keep the videos coming. You should review a soap from The Strop Shoppe, I find their soaps with tallow to be awesome!

Hay man! Great videos, I enjoy them all. Besides being entertained, I learn a whole lot from you. Even though I've seen many videos, but not all if them, have you looked into the science of cold shaving being more superior to hot/ warm applications to shaving? Thanks again. And thanks to your reply. Keep up the fine work that you are doing.

great video. I like the technical part to help understand the process. I hone my one and am still learning so this is very helpful. I don't know if this is the correct video, but some comments were made on whether Howard uses shaving soap. He commented that he doesn't like it because it contains Lye. Well this is not actually true. Yes, you can have lye in soap, but that is because it was not made properly. I heard some people claim the army soap had lye. This may have been possible as the army probably makes soap as quickly as possible with little regard for quality. When making soap, lye is use for the saponification process. This means the lye converts the fats into soap. If done properly, all of the lye will be use in this process and have no residual when the saponification process is completed. Most soap makers use a process of "super fatting" their soap. This means there is more fat than the lye can saponify. This way you are assured of not having lye left over. Soap makers are pretty careful about ensuring they calculate their soap making to consume all of the lye. If you super fat your soap ,it has a softer feel as not all of the fats (Tallow, or vegetable fats) have been converted.

@timothymagee6643

8 жыл бұрын

+Howard Schechter OK, just commenting. I have tremendous respect for you and your knowledge. I have heard about your service and you have a very good reputation as does Nick, pls don't take any offense. You know infinitely more than I do about all aspects of wet shaving. I am trying to get into making shaving soaps and I agree they can pull from the skin. For my shaving routine, hot shower or face cloth, pre shave oil (I usually make my own, but sometimes use commercially available products). I try to let the pre shave penetrate for a while to prep the skin properly. Lather up with either badger or boar, I find the boar to be a bit stiffer and can work the skin like a massage and get some circulation. Yes as Nick pointed out, its tradition as well. After shaving I feel I have substituted natural body oils for ingredients in the shaving products. Then post shave (here I am still working on different products). I find my skin much better than my simple boring shaving routine years ago. Thanks for the video and having Nick and us see your shop and operation. I am sure I will be calling on you for my Filarmonica in the future....it needs some work.

Nick, this (and the prior one with Howard) are some of the best videos that you have done. Thanks! I find it interesting that Howard seems to recommend against the use of a strop, more so, any of the strop "add-ons", but from a technical perspective, I fully understand. I looked at his site and found the Belgians. If I understand his comments here, he would seem to recommend using the yellow Belgian in lieu of a strop, albeit not before/after each shave. I do shave daily, so perhaps there is the need to use the coticule more than once per week as he does. It would be interesting to see, by video, what his routine coticule use looks like. How he holds the razor, how many passes, etc. This is intriguing, as it would eliminate at least some of the routine maintenance and importantly, the expense associated with the use of a straight razor, other than periodic honing by him. That would actually reduce the hurdle to move to a regular straight, whereas now I have a Feather Artist Club SS folding, primarily due to my lack of desire to deal with the daily maintenance issues. Am I understanding his perspective correctly?

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

***** Marc, I reintroduced the Belgian stones into the U.S. after a 60 year absence and also created the word "cotigura" which is the coticle slurry stone, coti- for the coticle and gura- as a nod to the Japanese nagura stone. My routine with the coticule is 10 or 15 strokes back and forth at the end of a week. I don't shave every day and my beard is medium so that works for me to keep the blade sharp. I do have different ideas about honing and sharpening as I've been doing it since I was 10 working in my father's fur shop. I also lived off grid for 2 years in upstate NY and sharpened and honed EVERYTHING as we really lived by our edges. Soooooo... my ideas about sharpening come from decades of experience and not from deductive logic.

@marcschwartz1221

9 жыл бұрын

Howard Schechter Thanks for your reply Howard!

@thatguyyouknow1366

7 жыл бұрын

Howard Schechter why do you finish on a 30k but refresh on a 8k coti?

@nickfanzo

7 жыл бұрын

Howard Schechter and you always hone with slurry on a coticule?

@MattTalmer

5 жыл бұрын

@@howardschechter Thanks for your insights into sharpening! How come you go up to 30k grit but maintain on an 8k?

Awesome video! I learn something new each time which is great. However, I'm still going to use my soaps!! LOL

Nice stropping ;') Best tips :) Thumbs UP!

Howard, do you have a tutorial showing how to sharpen a Kamisori using the Shapton stones?

First of all that was great info! Thanks Nick for the video. Now I have maintained 10 straights nice and sharp for a year using the refresh like Lynn Abrams shows on one of his videos. I use the shapton 16,000 finishing stone and a modular paddle strop with diamond spray on the felt. If I just have to strop my blades with ten passes, it would be awesome. Even if I didn't need to strop I think I would still do it out of nostalgia. I ordered my magnifying lens and can't wait to try all these new techniques and to finally see my bevels with that perfect edge.

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

H Cotton H, let me know how it goes. hschechter@theperfectedge.com

A question that went unasked. If the Belgian yellow coticule is 8,000 grit, how does it refresh an edge that was finished on a 30,000-grit stone?

@billyferguson6455

3 жыл бұрын

Well..It Cant..Its Bizarre..

He mentioned a blog he writes on do you have a link to it?

. . Been checking out your channel for some time. Interesting dynamic and detail coming from a guy that dry shaves in the car with store bought low end razors, or in 3 minutes at the gym. I really should rethink an approach - . . .

Wow.... very interesting...

Thanks for sharing

Advice to Nick. Slow down and quit interrupting so much. Let the guy finish a sentence. Sheesh!

How do u know when the bevel is set? What is the best test for that? I am having a hard time learning how without getting help for correcting. Also grinding it back and forth how does that sharpen the razor? Usually there is X strokes provided for that? And with the spine leading doesn't that take off the rounded edge? I appreciate all knowledge and response

What's a coticle stone and how do I get one after having my razor honed? (I assume that using the coticle after it being professionally honed is the way to go rather than stropping?)

So did he say your able to do the same procedure on other stones?

Young guy talked over the experienced guy wayyyyy toooo muuuuch.

Greetings for Westford, MA. This guy seems to know what he's doing... but my understanding was stropping was done to both "straighten" the blade edge as your whiskers sort of bend it a bit... as well as "compressing" the edge a bit to make the shave more comfortable. I'm still learning/experimenting myself so I should compare strop vs. no strop after hitting it with my 12K finish stone.

Hi Howard if you're reading this - what would you recommend for someone who is on the road for 6 months to a year at a time? I mean in foreign counties, having to fly there. Obviously hauling stones around isn't the best idea due to their weight. I'm thinking, get the edge to perfection with your method, then take a good 3" leather strop and use that after every shave? Would that razor still be sharp enough after 6 months or longer? Thanks!

So if you don't have a coticule, could you just go back to the 30k shapton once a week?

If I don't get a strop. Do I use a 4000/8000 stone? and how often?

Can you do a plug on the facial application lady you go through

Tempted to add one of his straights to my lineup. Always wait 3 days befor I pull the trigger!

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

Chuck Cunningham LOL! A waiting period for straight razor purchases.

Howard is a master craftsman, I could listen to him all day.

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

TimberWolvesX X shucks.... thank you!

@TheLegend-wz1ye

6 жыл бұрын

@TimberWolvesX X you'd be listening to bullshit my friend...

@tayloralbrecht8362

5 жыл бұрын

Howard Schechter no thank you Howard for sharing your expertise

Does Howard have a KZread channel or a website?

Wow that was an Education. Thanks to both of you. Toronto, Canada

@tayloralbrecht8362

5 жыл бұрын

Graham Doyle I think you mean Edge-ucation, and yes it was!!!!

Great info!

What's his mailing address? I tried that same technique and lol my razor didn't get sharp. And thanks for getting back to me

I have the Norton water stones

Also does Howard offer his services to sharpen straight razors for people out of state? I think I dulled my brand new Dovo by stropping incorrectly.

@tayloralbrecht8362

5 жыл бұрын

Chris Layton yes he does, contact him by email or call. You can find his contact information as well as products he sells on his website theperfectedge.com

4:24 Wow. So we don't need a strop? Just do a few laps over a yellow coticule once a week? This is great news. Things just got a lot easier. I'm just getting into straights after using safety razors for the last 4 years. And I have to say it's a little overwhelming.

@TyghtAlso

9 ай бұрын

You need a strop. This guy is pretty clueless.

how about japanese natural stone? any info on that? i think the jnat is king of honing stones

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

MasterofPlay7 I have a number of Japanese stones and the Shapton guy has a big shelf of them ... all collecting dust. I don't "get" Japanese stones. They have soft spots and hard spots and the Japanese say you just have to learn the stone and use the different parts for different purposes. I say that we call that a low grade stone. Side to side I'll put the Belgians against the Japanese stones any day (as I have) and you'll see the difference. You have to separate out the Japanese aura from reality and that goes for blades as well as stones.

@MasterofPlay7

9 жыл бұрын

Howard Schechter I'm not sure about that. For uniformity, I think the same goes for coticule, no 2 coticules are the same. The thing is cociule is much harder to hone since I can only produce edge that's equivalent to 6-8k synthetic (I think the garnets released scratched the blade). As for jnat I can hone a edge equivalent to 30k on my nakayama. and can sever the thinnest hair I have on the HHT.

How would you use an Arkansas to hone with or are they to hard for straight razors ty

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

You can use Arks to hone with and they come in different grades right up to surgical black. I don't use them as they're too slow.

Great video but dang...let the man speak.

Wow. Nick is really tall.

What strop should I use after the 30000 stone?

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

my four plate lapping/stropping system.

It’s almost as if Nick thinks he needs to reiterate what Howard already said perfectly.

fyi lush says on their site the shaving cream will not lather. You just rub it on your face with your fingers . I am not sure why Howard says you can lather it with a brush.

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

Ah! I should have explained that better. I put the lush Prince on top of the soap in the bottom of my mug. I LOVE the lather it produces.

Agree with everyone else. Nick put a sock in it and allow Howard to say something without you interrupting him every 3 seconds. I'm watching this to learn about honing and stropping not to hear you blabber.

Dude's actually stropping wrong. He needs to flip the razor the other way to prevent digging (and damaging) the edge of the blade into the leather.

@juliusu6615

3 жыл бұрын

Im surprised that only you have pointed this out. Hes stropping very poorly, no wonder he thinks stropping is useless!

oh wow i just came here from a Lynn Abrams video. cheers

If you switch hands do ya gain a stroke?

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

Not that I'm aware of and I count strokes.

Isn't lush prince a soap? The ingredients list sure looks a lot like soap and it comes from a company that makes soap...

After a while, you could tell who was interviewing who?!

One question. I suppose the reason Mr. Schechter doesn't prefer the green "chrome ox" and that he keeps stressing the strop is NOT a hone is because he prefers to use coteculs and a large variety of different grit stones including the highest grit. I AGREE but Im beginning to think he's like every other person who is a master of a skill and wants you to just try things out for yourself. Telling you what to do takes all the fun out the what he has devoted his life to. There are so many layers to sharpening honing stopping and refreshing the blade. I just bought a shapton glass to diamond lapping plate and 16,000 grit glass stone because of this very movie.

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

I'm all about showing people how to hone their own razors. Been teaching sharpening for the past 10 years and a lot of folks now have sharp blades. A strop is not a hone.

The only reason why he doesn’t strop is cause he doesn’t have too he keep going back to the stones. He probably honed his razors once a week while other ppl are 2-3 times a year. He’s removing unnecessary metal. After you put the edge on it just keep srropping it before you shave with it. Don’t re-hone until it gets a little less efficient when your shaving.

So why not just use a paddle strop and skip the hanging strop all together?

@nickfanzo

8 жыл бұрын

you can.

@MrFenwayfool

7 жыл бұрын

You can. Many use a paddle when they travel. The big 3" strop just makes it easier since you can go straight up and down with no X pattern.

Yeh but you shouldn't be letting the razor leave the leather between strokes

Lush Shaving Soaps: www.lushusa.com/Shaving-Creams/shaving-creams,en_US,sc.html

mastro livi says the Same thing. hanging strops will always round the apex.

This is a bit missleading. No one puts CROX on a strop. It is usually used after honing a razor.

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

Kyle Shrum Kyle, not sure what part you think is misleading. Lots of people put CROX on strops and there was a period about 7 - 10 years ago when a large contingent of wet shavers thought that any other way to strop was madness. I argued against it then and still do. Ruins a good piece of leather. I base my arguments against it on what I see under magnification before and after. Also, nobody talks about how toxic CROX is but you don't want to breathe the stuff or get it into a cut.

@turboinside88

9 жыл бұрын

Howard Schechter that is the beauty of this. I guess it constantly changes. I had never heard of it before. I had no idea it was toxic so thanks for the heads up. Also, thanks for taking the time to make the video.

@brunomleao

8 жыл бұрын

Hello Howard. I saw in this video or in the another that you prefer white compound. Why? is it more efficient than CROX for sharpening? What about red's jewlelry? What would be a good progression? White and after Red or the opposite? Or just white? all just in canvas/linen? Sorry for so many questions. Thanks a lot. Best, A fan from Brazil!

Nick, let the man talk, please

Wow that was hard work. Trying to listen to a master and you kept interrupting to hear your own voice.

that's why you strop judiciously, always strop the razor on flat surface so you don't round your edge

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

MasterofPlay7 That's exactly right. The strop folds around the edge of the blade and more than a few back and forths actually degrade the edge and round that bevel. You can see all of this under magnification. You need 60x to 100x. At 1000x it's really dramatic!

@MasterofPlay7

9 жыл бұрын

Howard Schechter but then i don't understand why people still say only the hanging strop can max out the benefit of stropping (is this a merely tradition which they want to honor?)

Howard schechter 👇🏻

It's not my way of doing things but if it works for him...

With proper stropping the edge only improves with more laps. I think minimum of 60 is required when coming off the stone. 10 laps? No way that is enough, I could not watch the entire video, really hard to take anything said here seriously after seeing the stropping technique.

@michaelshults7675

6 жыл бұрын

Doc I agree! This guy wasn't even pulling the strop tight!! Stropping is necessary after sharpening on stones and in between shaves for a more comfortable shaves!! It doesn't sharpen it but IMO it hones the blade. To a certain degree it does offer burnishing/ polish, because leather does have enough silicates to improve the smoothness of the blade!

@jimcunningham7341

5 жыл бұрын

@@michaelshults7675 it does not hone, it realines the edge making it straight again after shaving

@h.al.8801

5 жыл бұрын

I love this guy using the stone weekly, with his stopping technique he has to hone weekly :)

@yolandaorejel2663

3 жыл бұрын

This is his life I'm sure you numb nuts know more than him

Man Howard kind of takes the fun out of shaving.

@Adam-ke6uh

9 жыл бұрын

Lmao...

@Adam-ke6uh

9 жыл бұрын

Has to go against any and all common practices that 99% of us use. From stropping to soaps to brushes to after shave.

@SoSharpDavid

9 жыл бұрын

Adam Al So I'm not the only one to catch that

@knightmare1015

9 жыл бұрын

SoSharpDavid Nope, you are not the only one.

@howardschechter

9 жыл бұрын

Adam Al Adam, after over 10 years of wet shaving, seeing all the fads, hearing all the advice from people, etc. should make you wonder why I say what I say. I was up at Shapton the other day and we were looking at blade edges at 1000x and seeing exactly what 1, 2, 3, and 4 back and forth strokes on a strop do to a blade and it's not pretty! Strops break off the flash/burr and you now have a rough edge shaving your face.

Hardly practical every-day shaving advice since most don't have a 30,000 grit ($360.00) stone on hand. The old-timers shaved with a straight without one for over 100 years. Therefore, this cannot be the honest appraisal. However, it may be good for his business.

@ianh7268

7 жыл бұрын

You bring up a very valid point, the average consumer would not be able to afford all of the stones he uses without breaking the bank. I just use a 12K Chinese barber stone with a balsa pasted strop (and a leather one as well) which has kept me going for 2 years now.

nick no offense a lot of cringe and obvious remarks, funny though. I wanted to hear more from him, dropped some history facts there

This is interesting stuff! Love learning about all these stones. 💎 🪨

this video could of been 5 minutes if he would just let the guy talk and teach..vs interupt.

Nick's interruptions are more worthwhile than this huckster's nonsense. So much nonsense.

Not even half a minute in and you interrupted him three damn times. I'm out.

am I the only one that knows how wrong that was? dont roll your razor folks,learn the proper turn of the razor

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

I don't roll the razor as it was causing wrist pain that fortunately didn't get to the carpal tunnel level. Good advice if you're doing one or two razors a week but not good for the level of razor service I'm working at.

He doesn’t even keep the spine in the strop…. No wonder why he only does five laps,…lol he probably Rounds the edge

Let him do the talking for Christ sake!

This guy is a bit of a quack, Nick.

@ilyabixon7682

9 жыл бұрын

Would like to know why you think so.

@LetsGetShaving

9 жыл бұрын

Ilya Bixon just generally bad advice, He strops a few strokes and then doesn't strop between shaves, Stropping isn't optional if you want the best edge between shaves. A number of people on reddit's subforum wicked edge have sent their blades to this guy and they came back with a terribe edge. I don't think its a coincidence that after nick had his blade honed by this guy that in his next video he used a straight razor from someone else, Anthony espisito, who is known for actually doing a fantastic job at honing. just my 2 cents.

@kylekelly1167

7 жыл бұрын

i see my reply is late but with good stones they square the edge nicely so yea it is opnional.

@josephcalvosa8272

6 жыл бұрын

If he isn't down right lying about his personal razor maintenance. I am guessing he uses a disposable and tried to front about always honing all the time as to why his strop is untouched and his technique is shite. The kind of lie that makes no sense but was the best he could create on the fly. You had me with the honing vid but lost me with this stropping vid. Credit 0

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

LOL! I don't know why that guy has it in for me but he's actually sent me threatening messages over . . . stropping. I don't lie about my razor maintenance, my techniques have been developed over 16 years of working on razors daily, and I stand by them. Next week I'll be teaching the Forged Straight Razor course (5 day) at the New England School of Metalworking. I've taught it before and gotten a number of bladesmiths off on the right start in this industry.

Oh man,let the guy finish a sentence he is the expert not you for christ sake.

Kinda annoying when you are repeating what has been said.

@timbagheri

6 жыл бұрын

yup

Worst shave ever. They really botched my Dovo Solingen. Microscope? I see scratches with 10x lens. The rasor was fine before sending it here.

@TyghtAlso

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, this guy is a huckster.

ok i really dont want to seem like im trolling here, but this technique is contrary to everything ive had knoladgable people tell me about stropping, and everything ive read about it. basically, if your stropping like that, of course your going to round your edge off. first, too much flex in the strop. taking your nice keen edge thats at the proper angle and rounding it off quite a bit. secondly, flipping the razor on the edge side instead of the spine side makes it verry easy to run your edge at a verry high angle when coming off the strop. if your verry carefull and stop completely before flipping, you can avoid this, but it dosent appear that hes doing that here. perhaps the reason he dosent recomend the use of strops is because he dosent know how to properly use one and his experience has been bad as a result? even on a super fine stone your still taking allot more metal off than on a strop, even one with compound. besides that, a strop.will produce a more refined edge than even the finest stone if used properly. even with compound its much less agressive than a super fine stone. keep the strop tought, use verry little pressure,.and your angle remains pretty much the same. or if your paranoid about it use a bench strop or a bench strop with a thin stropping substrate. there are lots of options out there. personally i find the need to stop every time i shave, partly becsuse i shave my face and head at the same time, and cant imagine getting out the stone every single time, or that the added wear would be acceptable on my razor.

@howardschechter9768

6 жыл бұрын

I make strops, I've used many kinds of strops. I've been coached by old barbers. I did a study of stropped edges under a 1000x magnification. I keep getting told by customers that they stropped too much and now the razor won't shave. Hanging strops cause problems.

Man, when you do next video try to listen more and talk less yourself .. don't interfere ...!

Ok, yea, for sure, mm huh, YEA, ok, yea, uh huh, right, ok, ok, ok very nice, ok, mm huh, really nice, yea, yea, yea. Pretty much the entire transcript from the guy filming... Jesus, shut up and listen to the guy that you went to. He didn't come to you looking for info.

The earth starts to round because he’s not holding at all and he’s not doing the proper strapping technique!!!!! Jeeze man what a shame! Lynn Abrams Would be ashamed of you