The 3.5 version is so long that you couldn't even put it all on screen.

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

Hahahaha yuuup. It was a bit much.

I'd like more of this, going through the history of a spell and seeing how it's evolved

1e AD&D attribute increases caused by wish. This is found in the DMG. When casting wish to increase an attribute. It raises it by 1, until the effected target has 16. When raising it above 16. Each wish raises it by 1/10 of a point. Thus it takes 10 wishes to reach 17, then another 10 wishes to reach 18, ect. The capabilities of wish are wondrous in 1e, yet here we see this limitation making it fairly mundane.

I've always been of the opinion that as a DM, of course you should have fun with the wording of the wish because that's part of the fun, but the Wish spell as casted by a caster who picked it on level-up *shouldn't* be a monkey's paw. There's something about the idea that, well, hardly any campaigns even get to Level 17 so you *should* reward your players and not just use it as an excuse to fuck them over. If there's a wish that's unbalanced or too over the top, the spell description in 5e *does* state that Wish can just... fail. Hell, in 5e lore Wish *does* have actual limits considering that 10th+ spells existed at some point but were banned by Mystra, so it's perfectly believable to just say a wish is invalid and the spell slot poofs for the day. To be fair, I'm a DM who actively likes making their players feel powerful even if it trivializes my stories as long as they're having fun, and I do appreciate DMs who *do* like playing into the monkey's paw aspect of it a lot more. It just kinda dampens my mood when I see someone make a cool idea for a Wish and see like ten commenters replying about how the DM can fuck the player over, because it just feels too adversarial.

@josephpurdy8390

Ай бұрын

Once your magic-user finds the spell, then transcribes the spell. After which the magic-user memorizes the spell, then successful cast it. A ruling can be made that the source material, and all transcribed copies of it vanish, or randomly teleported elsewhere.

Got here right as he changed the Thumbnail lmao Edit(After Watching)- Also I think I would just rule the wish has to be possible by casting either a single 9th level spell or 2 spells whose levels add up to 9th. Then if the player isn't the best with spells I can help them figure out how to create that effect using 2 or less spells.

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

Hahaha quick reflexes, that was like under a minute :P

Hey that was really cool. Thanks.

Appreciating the spell history!

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

I’m glad! It was a lot of fun to do and I’m looking forward to doing more!

Great video! I remember how clunky wish was in 3.5, I was just never interested in navigating all that mess back then, and I didn’t really follow why the restrictions were the way they were back then cause I was so young. I agree that it’s much better now in 5e, and I wonder if they’ll alter it further going into 5.5!

I actually like the xp cost, it costing lets say a level means you can only cast it once before having to grind again to get your strongest spell back, an additional hp cost would be good as well just to make it a risky spell to do in combat, maybe leaving you on half of current or 1 hp that way its a hail mary spell vs a game breaking one

Honestly, I kinda wish(pun intended) that the spell limited wish was still in the game. I know the genie warlock gets an ability called limited wish but the actual spell is really cool and would love to see how it would be made in 5e. Note I didn’t like the 3.5 wish but the earlier versions were what seemed fun to try out

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

I’m kinda conflicted on it. I like that Wish exists as this thing of legend and doesn’t have a lesser version but also, Limited Wish would be hella fun haha. The 3.5 version was definitely my least favourite.

I've only seen Wish successfully heal the party. The first time I saw a player wish for something not suggested, a drug store appeared aboved their head and crushed their character. We tried it again later, but after an hour of planning our wish out, I rolled poorly against a Wisdom save and a Devil I had a pact with used the spell instead. I'm now at the point that if I get wish again, I'll probably just wish for a sandwich.

Reply to thumbnail text: Id say shapechange is quite a bit more powerful than wish.

@chrisg8989

Ай бұрын

I'd say most 9th level spells are better than wish RAW.

OMG! 4e was right about it!

It's also worth noting that BECMI and the Rules Cyclopedia also had their own versions of Wish (The Basic Set and and B/X did not have Wish)! It was available to Magic Users (lvl 33+ and INT 18+) as a 9th level spell but also to Clerics (lvl 36 and WIS 18+) as a 7th level spell (maximum spell level for clerics at the time)! The Rules Cyclopedia changed the level requirements to 36 and WIS 18+ for both classes (possibly a typo?). The spell description (taken from the entry for BECMI Magic User spells) is as follows:

@petsdinner

Ай бұрын

Wish Range: Special Duration: Special Effect: Special A wish spell is usable only by a magic-user of 33rd-36th level who has Intelligence of 18 or greater. A wish is the single most powerful spell a magic-user can have. It is never found on a scroll, but may be placed elsewhere. Wording the Wish: The player must say or write the exact wish made by the character. Wording of the wish is very important. The literal meaning will usually occur, whatever the intentions of the player. The DM should try to maintain game balance, being neither too generous nor too stingy in deciding the effects of a wish. Remember that wishes should be able to do quite a bit. Even a badly phrased wish, made with good intentions, may have good results. However, if the wish is greedy, or made with malicious intent, every effort should be made to find differing interpretations. If necessary, the wish can even be disallowed, having no effect. Whenever a wish fails or is misinterpreted, the DM should explain (after the game) the problem or flaw in the phrasing. Here are some examples of faulty wishes: "I wish that I knew everything about this dungeon" could result in the character knowing all for only a second, and then forgetting it. "I wish for a million gold pieces" can be granted by having them land on the character and then vanish. "I wish to immediately and permanently possess the gaze power of a basilisk while retaining all of my own abilities and items" is a carefully worded wish that's out of balance. Characters are already quite powerful. This wish could result in the growth of a basilisk head in addition to the character's own, or the growth of extra eyes-without eyelids- leaving the character extremely vulnerable to other gaze attacks. A wish can never be used to gain either XP or levels of experience. Possible Effects: If a wish is used to harm another creature in any way, the victim may make a Saving Throw vs. Spells. If the save is successful, the victim takes half the ill effects and the other half rebounds on the caster (who may also save to avoid it, but with a -4 penalty to the roll). A carefully worded wish can, however, move (i.e. teleport) another creature if no harm is done in the process, allowing no saving throw. The saving throw applies only to creatures, not their items carried or possessed. A wish may be used to gain treasure, up to a maximum of 50,000 gp per wish. However, the caster loses 1 XP per gp value of treasure gained, and this loss cannot be magically restored. A wish can be used, if the DM desires, to gain the use of a magic item for a short time. Generally, any magic item gained is borrowed from somewhere else, not created. Artifacts are beyond the power of wishes. The caster may usually produce any item up to + 5 enchantment. The item will remain for only 1-6 turns. A wish can be used to temporarily change any one ability score to a minimum of 3 or maximum of 18. This effect lasts for only six turns. Wishes can also be used to permanently increase ability scores, but the cost is very high. You must use as many wishes as the number of the ability score desired. All the wishes must be cast within a one-week period. You may raise an ability score only one point at a time. To raise your Strength from 15 to 16 takes 16 wishes. To then raise it to 17 will take an additional 17 wishes. Wishes cannot be used to permanently lower ability scores. A wish cannot raise the maximum level for humans; 36th is absolute, enforced by Immortals. However, one wish can allow a demi-human to gain one additional Hit Die (for a new maximum of 9 for halflings, 11 for elves, and 13 for dwarves). This affects only hit points, and does not change any other scores (such as Hit rolls, elves' number of spells, etc.). A wish can change a demi-human to a human, or the reverse. Such a change is permanent, and the recipient does not become magical. Halflings and dwarves become fighters of the same level. Elves become magic-users or fighters (but not both), at the choice of the wisher. Levels of experience can then be gained normally as the human class. A human changes to the same level demihuman, but no higher than the normal racial maximum. If the wish is made by another, the victim may make a Saving Throw vs. Spells with a + 5 bonus to avoid the change. Once a character's race is changed, two wishes are needed to reverse the effect, and further changes each require double the previous number of wishes used (4, 8, 16, etc.). A wish can be used to duplicate any magicuser spell effect of 8th level or less, or any cleric spell effect of 6th level or less. This common use of a wish is not subject to the same close scrutiny by the DM, and is likely to succeed with less chance of error than other types. A wish can sometimes be used to change the results of a past occurrence. This is normally limited to events of the previous day. A lost battle may be won, or the losses may be made far less severe, but impossible odds cannot be overcome completely. A death in melee could be changed to a near-death survival; a permanent loss could be made temporary. The DM may advise players when wishes are near to exceeding the limit of the power. Important Note: Whenever an effect is described as being unchangeable "even with a wish," that statement supercedes all others here. However, multiple wishes may succeed (DM's choice) where one wish would not.

@andyenglish4303

Ай бұрын

@@petsdinner Wow that's nearly as long as the 3.5 version, innit?

🥳👍🏿❤️

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

:)

The most powerful spell in DnD. If you DM says so. Otherwise its just a free 8th level spell. Wahoo...

I don't like the list of Wish effects. In particular, the last one... it's not far from a slightly better silvery barbs. Honestly, since the whole point of Wish is breaking the rules, the spell description should be very short. Something like, "You strain against reality and Fate, and bend the very fabric of the world to your will". Then it's up to the DM to give a ruling on how well whatever the PC wants works out, and whether Fate has any counter-slap to give. The Wish spell isn't going to *actively* try to sabotage you like a genie granting wishes would, but there is a limit to how far the world will allow you to push.

I have always hated wish as a spell. Imo, the fun of wish is the 'monkey paw' story. Be careful of what you wish for. Making wish a selection of a player drains all flavor from it and puts the DM and Player in a slightly antagonistic situation every time it's used. I limit it to deities and other powerful creatures or items. Wish does not belong on any spell list.

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

That's a totally fair take, I respect that. It can absolutely have some game altering effects so I think it largely comes down to the nature of the campaign being played.

@ultrakitten674

Ай бұрын

I did something similar, while it is still on the spell lists it is something they have to quest to get. Perhaps they need to find a wizard who has it and do a job for them or something like that. I did the same with some other spells that I wanted to be more rare in my world to fairly good effect. I still remember the old 1e/2e rules and having the very real "be careful what you wish for" moment. Me and my best friend, mostly her since she loved the spell, become really good at writing out exactly what we wanted before casting the spell and giving it to our GM (my mother). Also I am fairly sure the reason the original wish spell couldnt summon treasure is because you gained XP from treasure in the earlier editions, it would be like wishing for levels.

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

@ultrakitten674 effectively turning the spell into a plot device in itself is a pretty cool idea to be honest. Kind of like what happened in 4e. I’m here for it!

@chrisg8989

Ай бұрын

Wish isn't powerful. It's either a free casting of a 8th level spell or completely up to DM fiat. People really need to actually read the spell before calling it powerful.