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@LoudAngryJerk

13 күн бұрын

Anytime I've played morally gray, or even evil I've always kept one thing in mind, that I'm in the party for a reason. It's either because I was paid to keep the party safe, so I act like a bodyguard for a cartel boss. For my character was on the run, and I'm drafting my defense off of the rest of the party by making myself useful.

My favourite quote from an old character I played in Barovia goes: "When I fail, fronts fall; when I hesitate, warriors die; when my judgement clouds, the assets that could win a war are instead wasted, miring the conflict in for years. I cannot afford to heed my humanity, for what is asked of me is thoroughly inhuman."

@sethb3090

8 күн бұрын

I had one a bit like this...We've been attacked by pirates. It's been a long battle, but our rogue/monk finally gets the drop on the pirate captain... And totally misses. He downs her with a cursed sword. I go to help, stabilize her and hold him off but then also go down. By this point though the party arrives and saves us. Captain: "All right, I surrender. Four against one just ain't fair." I conjure a firebolt. "I was not aware it had to be fair."

@ImrahilToChaos

5 күн бұрын

Cool motive, still murder.

hearing the words "older shows, like Supernatural and Stargate" just caused me to age 100 years in 5 seconds

@talscorner3696

13 күн бұрын

Yyyyup...

@AceTaxiaGaming

13 күн бұрын

​@@talscorner3696watching the actors at panels learn there are fans who are younger than the show is hilarious

@talscorner3696

13 күн бұрын

@@AceTaxiaGaming yeah xD

@PaulGuy

9 күн бұрын

Time to get in your healing sarcophagus.

@talscorner3696

9 күн бұрын

@@PaulGuy for real, mate xD

i usually play morally gray characters as the "all business" type. im playing a bard right now who is a salesman type. he is charasmatic and sly and will do almost anything for gold...but thats because at his lowest moment, he made a deal with a demon who would give him great success in his life, but only as long as he kept gaining gold. his charisma stat was literally linked to his bank account, so when he joined the party and they ended up ruining some of his deals he got really mad and dropped his friendly face. thats when they got to see how desperate and scared he was. he was fun to play

@aazhie

3 ай бұрын

that sounds super fun!!

@soldierbreed

2 ай бұрын

I tend to play mind as the one willing to get thier hands dirty so the rest of the goodie two shoes can keep their squeaky clean ideals. Captured bandit won't talk? Give me an hour alone, "yeah guys the base is here"

@agsilverradio2225

Ай бұрын

Charisma is linked to your bank account, because "Money talks."

@ulurius

15 күн бұрын

So the character sold his soul for power, and he keeps working in order to gain more power disregarding others. The character is acting on selfish motivations, unless he'd be up to willingly sacrifice power to do the right thing, then he's downright evil. Lawful evil.

@deffdefying4803

14 күн бұрын

@@ulurius pigeonholing someone else's character into a specific alignment 🤢

I was disgusted by the lack of a spoiler warning, people may not have had time to learn what morally grey is and now you've spoiled it for them. /s

@PlayYourRole

5 ай бұрын

Oh man, you might be right I messed up

@flubbajubb4958

5 ай бұрын

Can I ask what he spoils exactly? I would like to know before he says it

@PalleRasmussen

5 ай бұрын

​@@flubbajubb4958I am not sure if you get the joke and play along, or missed the joke entirely.

@flubbajubb4958

5 ай бұрын

@@PalleRasmussen I haven't watched the video yet, and I want to avoid spoilers for whatever this comment is talking about

@PalleRasmussen

5 ай бұрын

@@flubbajubb4958 I am still unsure if you are joking. I will assume that you are not, and try to explain. Cause I like to be helpful when I can, and the hours a day combating Muscovite Trolls is driving me insane- I need to be non-aggressive and kind. Do you follow this channel? Have you seen all the angry comments about spoilers that eventually turned into a joke? That eventually turned into the joke you are replying to?

Well, Geralt in the thumbnail ends the books noblebright hero, his world is grey, the situations are grey, but he goes out of his way to be good. Others choices force him to kill, but he doesn't choose darkness or grey actions

@akdele5

11 күн бұрын

Geralt is trying hard to keep up the masquerade of him being a "grey hero", but he's what you described - a noblebright hero

@KaiHung-wv3ul

2 күн бұрын

Yeah, Geralt pretends to be an edgy antihero but we all know he's good at heart.

@pelipoika88

2 күн бұрын

Best described by himself in his quote about evil. “Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.”

@Morfe02

Күн бұрын

Geralt is literally moral on the inmoral world of Magic I think if he was grey he would choose gold instead of . . . Family

My favorite character I’ve ever played was a Jack the Ripper-esque cleric “doctor”. Older gentleman, very friendly and pleasant. Always takes others into consideration and looks out for them. However, being lost in the feywild for much of his childhood gave him a morbid curiosity of how creatures/people “tick”. I would attempt to perform vivisections on enemies, keeping them alive with Spare the Dying. I would never kill, just poke around they’re insides, maybe borrow an unnecessary organ for our Warforged Ranger (we had a strange Pinocchio and Gipedo dichotomy, I was convinced I could make him a “real boy”). My party was so torn lol

@WTFisTingispingis

5 күн бұрын

That sounds awesome tho

So crazy that the answer to a D&D conundrum is, once again, communication

@deffdefying4803

14 күн бұрын

it's wild to me that in a teambuilding game you are required to build your team

In one campaign I played an Orc Monk, basically re-flavored as an underground boxer. His family had been killed by the BBEG and he was on a war path. The rest of the party had their own reasons for going after the BBEG, save the city, save their town, gain wealth, what have you. But My character had one thing on his mind, revenge. By any means necessary. The rest of the group was fairly moral, especially the cleric and paladin, trying to "do what was right" in all things but my character was the one to get their hands dirty. He tortured prisoners, killed in cold blood, he was prepared to sacrifice innocent people. The BBEG had lied their way into ruling a large city, and when negotiations with factions that could help peacefully remove them from power failed, my character showed he was willing to burn the city to the ground if it meant hurting their nemesis. This forced the other factions' hands and convinced them to take the less drastic route. My character thematically butted heads with the party a lot, but we always had the same goal, and I always found a way to move the story forward. But the scenes of inter party drama were pretty fantastic, even if they got heated at times we all still knew we were friends IRL.

@jonathancrosby1583

13 күн бұрын

Dude your character was evil not Grey Good lawfully gather evidence Grey use crime to get real evidence Evil torture ppl and threaten to burn a city down when talk fails

I think one of the best and lesser appreciated parts of The Punisher was showing how his crusade hurt good people. His friends lamented getting caught in his wake, even though they helped him for the greater good.

@alexzander7629

12 күн бұрын

Ya, I think that's one of the best things the show does. To often the Punisher Comics just let Frank get away with mass-murder or just absolutely insane shit with barely a hand wave of "did his research" or something equally inane. It's also something the Witcher (games) does well to. Geralt regularly has his choices, be they good or bad, come back to bite him in a way that really sells the "I'm not trying to be a good guy, just an alive guy".

@KaiHung-wv3ul

2 күн бұрын

@@alexzander7629 Well, Geralt IS a good guy, he may not think of himself in that way, but when push comes to shove, he always does the right thing, even at the cost of his life. If that's not the meaning of true heroism, I don't know what is.

@KaiHung-wv3ul

2 күн бұрын

@@alexzander7629 Geralt is not really morally grey though. Sure the world he lives in is morally grey, he don't always make the right decisions, but when push comes to shove, he always tries to do the right thing, even at the cost of his life.

I'm currently playing in a pf1 Kingmaker game as a white necromancer, and it is by far the most fun I've had with a grey character. They think undead are great tools to be used, and should be used to reduce the amount of work that the lower classes do. However, the majority of my group is Good leaning so they kinda hate that I use undead, and I love trying to get them to see a more utilitarian view on undead.

@KaZlos

5 ай бұрын

Geb enjoyer I love it

@PlayYourRole

5 ай бұрын

Jesus the potential of using this archetype as an allegory for AI is crazy

@DreamersOfReality

4 ай бұрын

Watch as the upper classes use necromancy to put the commoners out on the streets xD Why have pesky plebeians do work, when a perfectly compliant, and *cheaper* undead minion, could do the job?

@sethb3090

8 күн бұрын

This reminds me of my lizardfolk who will absolutely get into arguments about the morality of eating people. Burials and crypts are just a useless display of wealth to show off one last time after death. If you cared, you'd make some of what they were part of you and carry the weight of their life forward.

@crowfather3838

3 күн бұрын

That, sir, is the best argument against burials and pro cannibalism I have ever heard. ​@sethb3090

Thanks for bringing back the how to play "_____" in a TTRPG. Love the great insights. Of course, again, the topic highlights the importance and central aspect of the Session 0 where characters' concepts can be laid bare and players don't get blindsided with their characters.

@PlayYourRole

5 ай бұрын

Man you've been here since that series started! Super happy to bring it back for you!

One of my favorite characters was moraly gray. A Dhampir in curse of strahd. Before he went to Barovia, he was a crime lord disguised as a noble. He started as Chaotic/Evil, but became Lawfull/Neutral by the end. He was killed by a vampire hunter and when a valkyrie came to collect his soul, he convinced her to give him a second chance to redeem himself. He became a Hexblade Warlock. The party didn't trust him at first, some hated him because he was cynical and egotistical. And he was the one making some real bad choices that had repercusions for the entire party. By the end, he earned his redemption, but it was a bumpy ride. He was fun as hell to play...

If there was ever a phrase that represented the morality gray is the phrase “I not saying he’s right, I saying, I get it.”

@DewayneMcClure-bm2pj

6 күн бұрын

Eh. I see morally grey as more of making a decision in a situation where a "right" decision doesn't really exist when other people would just refuse to choose ...which is also a choice.

"There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that." - Esmeralda "Granny" Weatherwax, Carpe Jugulum by Terry Pratchett.

My ranger is Neutral good but morally grey. He's a good man whose moral white is shadowed by a dark cloud of vengeance

@AceTaxiaGaming

13 күн бұрын

He would cut down anyone at the sign of betrayel. He lost the ability to trust, but knows he needs to be practical so he works with others

@marcodemarco1159

Күн бұрын

Valygar, is that you?

@AceTaxiaGaming

Күн бұрын

@@marcodemarco1159 lol, my guy has issues as he died in his back story for a brief while after being killed by his best friend. He was resurrected but it left an unhealing wound, hes seen as a drunk but he legit drinks as it numbs the pain he feels even when he breathes. Man went on a crusade against the bandits around his home village leaving an arrow through the eye to mock the man who slew him

Morally gray doesn't mean Lawful Stupid, let's all say it together xD

I once played as an elderly elf who worked as a surgeon for a pretty well off university, thing was… also a necromancer and was very fond of poisons. Out of a love for life and out of a pursuit for knowledge came a need for necromancy to fill the gaps and aid in research. It was very fun and interesting, most fun I’ve ever had roleplaying a character. Extremely morally grey but wasn’t exactly just doing bad things to be bad, even if morally many might see said things as very bad.

I had a LOT of luck when playing my morally grey character Fasih. Like I fully intended on doing the thing where I hid the sympathetic backstory and I was planning on accounting for that by having my guy hiding his less 'publicly acceptable' traits as well (expertise in Deception, and his morality basically boiling down to 'those that hurt and control others deserve to feel every bit of pain they've inflicted 10 times over') but well, introduction to the team happened while he had a concussion so he had disadvantage rolling Deception and Nat 1d, the one character who still beat his expertise was the TN bard who Nat 20d and who decided it'd be more interesting to be a friend to him than expose his bull, and very first plot beat ended up being 'oh no the tavern the soon to be party are staying at is attacked by cultists chasing after the monk' which resonating EXTREMELY well with my guy's own cult based trauma. To the point he was one of the monk's most passionate and empathetic supporters, which earned him a ton of good will from the largely LG party and NPCs on scene as a whole despite being openly ruthless and sadistic about what he'd do to their foes if he got the chance/what kinds of costs were 'acceptable' to put them down (they put it down to my guy just being really passionate in his support/super emotional in general rather than realizing he was being 100% serious). Cue him ending up as the team's trusted face/smart guy, him mostly being great at it but prone to 'hot headedness'/'thinking only in numbers', lots of arguing with the monk and barb/pally about how to treat any cultists captured/their 'non murdery' general approach to things (my guy would ultimately back off when it came to the monk's enemies since well, 'It's your choice my friend' but he'd keep pushing things so often and get so worked up about it that despite all his lying skills it was pretty obvious to the party that *something* was up even if they weren't sure what), and well, got plenty of time to slow drop hints of Fasih's backstory via way too extreme reactions to things (adamant refusal to ever spar with friends, being so mentally messed up after being Revivified he couldn't talk for a day, being *terrified* of powerful Clerics, etc), him 'totally hypothetically' asking others about how they'd react in certain situations (almost always extremely horrific or morbid), and very VERY rarely him actually opening up about things (usually by accident because he got distracted chatting with his crush or puzzling over how something works, but he did intentionally open up to the bard about a lot so that was something)~

The Punisher literally has a war code he fallows. It is actually a code very similar to a vengeance paladin’s oath.

Played an alchemist called Dr. Anders once. Generally he was a surly and terse talker, and the one person in the circus (pathfinder 2e extinction curse module) who distinctly HATED being there. My favourite moment was when we were sent to investigate a monastery, and the party complained about Anders starting to loot. Simply replied with "I don't mind the do-gooding, but I'd like it to be worth my time." An ulterior, often selfish, motive is an excellent way to gray up your character, even when they partake in heroism. Anders was also the type of person who considered himself able to perform the necessary evil, and saw a kindred spirit in the party rogue, whom he supplied with high-grade poisons.

I played a goblin paladin once. I took a trait that basically says that due to being lower intelligence, I can break my vows so long as I can justify how my character would see it as upholding his vows. His Goddess understands the intent. I'm not an oathbreaker. I ended up loving the character and didn't abuse it and he was morally gray and I basically got to just use my own morality and be like, "yeah killing these guys immediately was an act of love for the next people they try to rob"

Morally grey doesn't equal violent and edgy though. It can be. But at the same time a morally black and white character can be every bit as violent. For example a character might kill a hungry child stealing bread on the morality of stealing=criminal=evil. Black and white morality can be brutal because it lacks nuance. And it can be in conflict with different views of black and white morality. In contrast morally grey actions could be creating a compromise, forgiving a villain, listening to and considering a different viewpoint, choosing joy or passivity over good or evil sometimes, haggling for a discount, or supporting goals of others without benefit to your good. The majority of parties are morally grey. It's the morally black and white ones that are harder to fit in.

I really like this type of reflective, thoughtful content. Thank you for making it! A key way to play morally grey is to have a wound that drives both positive and negative traits. For example, characters mistreated when young might be very kind to children or animals in their personal life, while also being violent or manipulative in their professional life. Definitely understanding motivation is key to likeability.

5:04 my millenial face just went full Matt Damon rapid aging from the end of Saving Private Ryan

I have a lawful evil Paladin. It works great because the deity he follows is also lawful evil. Definitely fun to have people question how my god can stomach me 😂

I feel what you are describing is not a morally grey character, but rather an ETHICALLY grey character, cause morales is the individual's principles regarding right and wrong, while this, you are explaining more stuff being ethically wrong, with it being everyone elses view of right and wrong being pushed on a character. Great video by the way

The alignment chart really did have a significant presence in pop culture. I knew what the alignment chart was before I ever knew about D&D.

My current magnum opus is a morally gray character in the way that he was ultra violent in his youth but now, being in his twilight years, only uses violence to kill those who would kill him. And i already have an idea to naturally give back story if the question comes up

I love playing the character I'm currently playing. Just being a people pleaser. No strong moral compass other than just doing what pleaseas the person with the most power at a certain point. It fucks with me, but not necessarily my character. His motivation is to get his lute back and to feel that his love is returend from his crush. His actions so far have sometimes gone against the party, but I love that it does not allways have to be expressed in a way which screws over the party - it just comes across as power play, but it will get increasinly more interesting as party loyalty builds.

This video is perfectly timed as I am just starting to play in Curse of Strahd (after YEARS of wanting to run it but wanting to play it first) where I am playing a Vampire Vengeance Paladin. In short, he made a deal with a good goddess to hunt all monsters who prey on the innocent (and views himself as one monster) to get vengeance for their blood. He does not care if you are beast, undead, fiend or man. If you hurt an innocent, you will die by his blade. He cares for his companions, but if they cause harm to any innocent, he will not hesitate to destroy them. At his core, he IS a good man, but he doesn't see it, merely that he himself is a monster and hopes to lay his sword down so he can lay his own head on the chopping block. He is a monster that hunts monsters, so he is cold and distant so when he does eventually die, his death doesn't cause pain.

I really enjoy this video. It really help me understand those "Morally Gray" characters. It also helps me have a better idea how to create a one as well. I am looking forward to the next video like this.

I played a morally grey paladin and he was my best character. He was an oathbreaker and broke the oath of conquest and had hurt many people in the past. So he used his dark power to work outside the tenents of an oath to help people but still able to be free to choose.

I can't believe Jay spoiled the morally Grey character archetype in media. Where's the spoiler warning? I'm kidding, good video sir. Have a comment for the algorithm

@PlayYourRole

5 ай бұрын

Very very kind of you, but I've learned I actually spoiled the story of Ned Kelly, my b

I can't believe you spoiled Ned Kelly's story, I hadn't gotten to that part of history yet

I almost choked while eating at the beginning, I thought I must have heard wrong and not only fans but then I rewinded slightly back and laughed again. 😂😂 Btw great video, I love playing morally gray characters, it seems like a trope that fits me well so I’m glad to see more stuff for me to improve!

You actually helped me a lot for my next DnD character. I had an idea but was kind of struggling to really define how he will interact with the other membres of the party.

@Merciful_Angel

5 ай бұрын

Make sure you all know how to separate IC and OOC - character conflicts can be great fun for everyone as long as they don't become player-conflicts.

I play a Dhampir in a world that's like mad max had a baby with a typical fantasy adventure. I wasn't prepared for how quickly my party would just accept my character. I guess in a world where everyone is kind of a monster in their own way, it's a lot easier to accept needing blood. It's better than full cannibalism

My favorite type of morally grey characters are the “good people who will do bad things to do good”

I really like the 'bound demon' sort of moral grey zone. A person or creature that enjoys causing harm, but for some reason is either compelled or clinging to a 'better' moral code than their preference. Like Dexter, or Spike from Buffy.

It's always morally justified to bully the wizard. -Wizard player

“You don’t have to agree with them, but you understand them.” See Killmonger, Mr. Freeze, etc.

Thank you! Your comments are really helpful for me. I’ve often mused about the nuances of neutral characters that I’ve played. I’ve even played an evil character ( once and the other players got so upset that they, essentially, forced the DM to set up a confrontation between them and my character and my patron ( I ended up having to figure out how to defeat me and relate pertinent information to the group). Anyways, I like how you set out your arguments. Nice work 👍🏼

They even have a whole section in a certain art museum (forgot the name) where they had a bunch of Ned Kelly paintings. Definitely a pretty important guy.

Im playing a morally gray character in my current campaign, and its so fun to have our party's paladin approve of my actions one day, then have him want to throw me the other, even though he knows im right anyways

My use for grey morality is that a morally grey character will do good for evil or evil for good. I haven’t watched your whole video yet, but good stuff so far

I would love to see more videos like this one!

My favorite Morally grey character from D&D is Raistlin Majere. While he did end his story in the books as "evil", I never saw him as such. He was honorable to a fault, always trying to ensure he never owed anyone anything. Yes his motivations can easily be looked on as evil, his actions can also easily be seen as good, from a certain point of view. On multiple times he was 100% willing to sacrifice himself for his companions. Yes, on those occasions he was also willing to do so because he didnt want to be bested, and the easiest way of doing so was to take everyone with him, but that isnt always the point.

@ulurius

15 күн бұрын

Willing to do the right thing for the wrong reason doesn't affect your moral compass. If you heal a puppy because you're annoyed by their whining, that wouldn't make you good. Lawful evil character.

Probably my most morally grey character I’ve played was a homebrewed dhampyr/troll/lycanthrope bioweapon made by a vampire wizard and escaped his lab. He had to devour meat instead of eating blood, leading to basically becoming a bounty hunter who got a meal as well as some coin. Basically a monsterous being that didn’t want trouble but needed to eat so he went for jobs where his hunger was of use. He had a an amazing sense of smell that gave him advantage on perception checks and it helped save many kidnapped children from an evil Piper. However, the seven dwarves mistaking him for a any other monster lead to an unfortunate case of self defense 😂

I was thrown for a loop when I heard you talk about Ned Kelly in a ttrpg roleplay video

Thank you for including Morrigan in this.

I personally think one of the best DND alignments to play a morally gray character especially in the case of religious characters is lawful evil

I have a character planned for a future campaign who’s a morally grey crossbow user (duel wielding hand crossbows + and extra heavy crossbow). They used to be part of a group that was essentially a cult that shunned divinity, and avoided the modern world and industrialisation as much as possible. He did bad things, and was witness to many bad things before the cult was razed by a horde of undead, which he attempted to fight off with a torch he picked up. He managed to hold them off long enough for a few members to run, but before he left his father threw his hand crossbow to him. He now is looking for money, and unconsciously a new family.

An interesting view on morally gray viewpoints. You’ve given me some ideas to try out. For the last few years I’ve been playing characters that live in the Order vs Chaos range but who discount Good and Evil as unnecessary and harmful extremes. I’ve been fortunate to have groups that have been willing to allow me the space to experiment in this way.

BRO THIS VIDEO IS SO FCKING GOOOOOD, i'm going to send it to the dnd group im dming and also going to apply this when i make a character!

A really helpful video!

I like to play well-meaning characters who use necromancy or similarly evil kinds of magic. Like, someone who generally wants to help people and do good things, and simply sees these powers as the most effective way to do so.

I always love to play someone whose ends justify their means, someone who has the same morally good goal as the heroes but gets there with some questionable methods.

Great video. I agree 110% with what you say toward the end-it's about letting people understand your motivations early on, and having a line you won't cross. If your character has no limits, they will fall to villainy... and if the other players aren't cool with it, you'll only convince them that "shades of grey" characters are terrible. I've watched some people claim to be playing a character as morally-grey and instead play morally-bankrupt, and those games fell to pieces very quickly.

My personal favorite flavor of morally gray is Geralt of rivia, specifically from the games. Constantly trying to do good, trying to do the right thing. Constantly forced to chose between two evils, to take lives, to serve tyrants and maniacs, to weigh lives of bystanders

I'm planning on playing a morally gray character in a D&D campaign. This video was super helpful. The character I'm going to play is a Drow Druid.

I just wanted to add a summary to a point that is rounded out and explained a lot: morally grey isn't a lack of morality or ethics, but the belief in something that is more righteous than anything else that other people hold dear; it's hard to dichotomize, because both lawful and chaotic characters take a stand for what they believe in, and perspective can warp that, because that something can look a lot like good... when it sometimes isn't. Believe it or not, HELM is morally grey in this manner. If you know what happened during the Time of Troubles, and the origin of the Guardian's Tear... you know.

Star Trek Deep Space Nine has some good morally gray characters, I mean one character was trying to cause a genocide to an entire race of aliens in a time where there was no war. His action that he was trying to do behind everyone's back will also lead to the death of himself and his group, and If you have the context and you were in his shoes you might do the same. (Also for those who know what scene I'm talking about, it's pretty awesome)

I'm playing a morally grey character, and I intentionally crafted her to be grey, while having the same goals as the rest of the party. A "Devil on the side of the Angels" I like to say In that party we have a lawful good paladin and a true neutral outlaw, who fight side by side for the same purpose. Me and that player accidently made perfect foils for one another, its quite wonderful

My half drow archer in my current campaign is the only criminal in my overall good party, for most of the campaign i was sort in the background, but there was a point where the team got separated and I was able to be a criminal and it was funny seeing the players watch me interrogate and kill someone for info just to have me meet the party again and say "sup guys" like nothing.

These are one of my favorite video types of yours! I clicked the second I saw it Also your wife was right damn squirrel

There are always similar stereotypes about Chaotic Neutral behavior. I played once a Tiefling rogue, who was clearly not impressed by the party and in it for himself, but still capable of cooperating when push comes to shove, because D&D is just that kind of game. When you can't act in a way that is fully in alignment with your... alignment, you act... instead of behaving, you create an impression, you joke, you banter or you find for ways to develop your character in a new interesting direction. If their alignment or stereotype or character is challenged, you can show their conflict, their change. That's why I never make characters, that arw just evil, just grey, just good, just disciplined or just freedomloving. There's always potential for conflict, for a development. There is nothing harder than being good. Most stories about loners are not about staying alone, most compelling stories about villains make them compelling people first. There's layers.

Woo, 🎉. Another great video 👍 Also, you can have a morally grey character who is good, neutral, or evil. The perception of good or evil is given to an individual from other people. A "good" person is Seen as good by others, the same goes with evil.

I really enjoy playing a morally grey character, especially in the game where I currently play as one because (without even saying anything) we all ended up with fairly grey characters. We have a solid overarching story goal, but many of us have alternative motives and almost everyone has thrown a wrench in someone else's plan. HOWEVER we also talk a lot above board and tend to work on a majority rules system to keep party cohesion. We still make an effort to work together and try to keep a clear line between above/below board.

It’s honestly kinda easy. Make them a serial liar, some people like making characters sleep around, or swap people’s magic items with someone else’s, maybe a rich npc. Pass it off as kleptomaniacy and be ready to pay a 50-350 gold fee on top of restoring the missing items, and buy everyone harmed a drink. Don’t be a thorn, just a holly leaf. Less painful, more green and leafy. And be willing to repay kindly for the troubles. But be willing to push the boundaries of what your world sees as morally green and red. Some worlds value trust because of all the enchanters running around, others property (for lack of gold), and each person and npc can have their own virtues and vices regarding such values. Morally grey don’t need to mean money, honey, or blood. Could be as simple as sobriety. .

I've been playing thoroughly selfish and manipulative sorceress. Her first priority is to be able to indulge in sensual pleasure. Her second priority is to remove people and things that interfere with her ability to do that from her environment. On the surface, she's nearly always happy, and responds viciously to things which threaten that. More than that though, she understands that having those she surrounds herself with being miserable interferes with her own pleasure. So it is a very high priority to resolve that in one way or another. It creates a weird conundrum where much of the time she appears to be the classic people pleaser, interspersed with moments of overt manipulation, and savage violence. She's perfectly happy to use charm spells just to force others to be pleasant because it suits her. When directly threatened though she will unleash every bit of power her draconic heritage gives her to thoroughly obliterate the threat. It's honestly been one of the more interesting and fun characters I've ever played, and still plays very nicely with the rest of the group. She's highly motivated for them to be happy as well, after all.

This drags on filled with it is this, it isn't that it isn't that.... The definition, examples and suggestions for roleplay must be somewhere in the last minute of the video but I got exhausted hearing this never getting to

Paladins are a bit more bendable, especially with some of their subclasses being less than heroic in its drive. Oath of Vengeance and Oath of Conquest come to mind. Even Oath of the Crown paladins can serve an evil king.

When playing a morally "grey" character, I generally try to make them have hold one value above all. Like maybe they're interested in self preservation, or is obsessed with adhering to their religion(for good or ill), or they try to advance the standing of their house at all costs. Being interested in self preservation above everything else may be selfish, but it's also very understandable(most people don't want to die). Dogmatically sticking to the tenents of one's faith could make one uncompromising and intolerant of others, but could also make one more generous or charitable. Trying to advance the position of one's family can come from trying to help your loved ones, but could also make people do horrible things in service of that goal. I find that this is a pretty simple way of creating simple yet morally complex motives for my characters. Edit: Didn't watch the video before I wrote this but yeah, he already said it.

I love these videos of yours because it shows you can play "problematic" characters if you play them in the right way. Ultimately, it's all about communication, of course, but I like how you show that it's not wrong to want to play these difficult and complex character types as long as you know how to keep things from getting in the way of your party members' fun. I like that you pose examples and encourage the exploration of these characters rather than stating don't do it because you might make your party hate you. Kind of, know what you're doing going in and understand what it is you're looking to achieve. It's very cool. Sorry(not sorry) we love dancing squirrels so much.

If your players can’t understand the d&d alignment system (which is incredibly simplistic), that might be a sign of arrested development.

The first paladin I made was morally gray. He was a vengence paladin convicted in fighting corruption, only to fall after refusing to let his guide corrupt him for the deva's god.

We need a better advocate for the squirrel justice for the squirrel

Easiest way for me that has worked? Serve the party, not a moral compass. If you believe something immoral would be helping the party, as long as it gets results, (usually) other party members are able to forgive such actions Of course, always, communicate with the party what you want to do.

That wizard knows what he did.

🌰 Leaving this for you know who. Maybe he'll show up next time someone watches the video?

My last grey character was fun. Warlock Scholar who accidentally stumbled into dread knowledge to get her powers. Was very much mainly concerned with her own survival and the acquisition of knowledge over actually giving a shit about heroics or the party (she viewed them as convenient at first). And even though she was on board for "saving the world" by the end, it wasnt about doing good or being a hero. She viewed the party (especially the fighter) as friends by the time the real heavy shit started, and in her words "you're all idiots if you're gonna go fight this thing... but you're my idiots, so i guess im in."

Thats why people dont dump Lizardfolk party member couse he starts to saveging bodies of those bandids you just kill. As on next day Rouge broke all of his picklocks and you will not have a lizard friend who will give him a bonekeys or bone tipped arrows for team's Ranger.

Most of the characters I play are morally grey but they're not villains. As playing a morally grey character isn't an excuse to play a murder-hobo or a villain playing a morally grey character means you're playing a character who is willing to do or suggest acts that may be arguably evil but really aren't they're just acts that a lawful good character wouldn't suggest.

Tried to make a tax assesor character before. Killed session 1

Another type of morally grey character I've played is one whose status as hero or villain is almost entirely determined by circumstance. My tabaxi way of the long death monk had a very naturalistic worldview kinda outside of traditional concepts of morality. Like you mentioned nature isn't "good" or "evil", in a lot of ways it just is. Her primary goals were to become the best huntress she could and to stay loyal to her clan/family and friends. She did "good" things almost entirely because the people she cared most about (mostly other members of the party, especially her eventual oath-brother) had noble intentions. If they had more nefarious and self-serving goals, she would not hesitate to aid them in that. Actually towards the end of the campaign one of the party members had a deck of many things alignment shift to chaotic evil, and she only cared because he was affecting the harmony of the group and also it was clear this isn't what he would have wanted. She very much would have helped him commit war crimes otherwise. As it stands she was usually the party member who would propose the more direct and violent ways of dealing with problems, methods that often are quite brutal. For instance, others may see pretending to eat your enemies in war as unacceptable, but she simply saw it as an expedient way to demoralize the enemy and end the fighting faster. She'd let the others try their more peaceful methods first, its not like she was philosophically committed to this brutality, but she'd always be ready to play bad cop to their good cop. She did have some basic moral standards, like not targeting children and the like, but outside of that she reasoned that if your life path put you in front of her as an enemy, you've probably done something to earn death I've definitely had other morally grey characters, and even just fully self-serving evil characters that happen to share goals with the party and aren't of the puppy-kicking disposition (ie, they're helpful, but solely because they want something in return from you to further their own ambitions), but that one is probably my favorite and clearest example. Less any-means-necessary vigilante crusader, more single-minded attack dog thats fortunately been befriended by some heroes.

I would view a Grey character to do said acts for things like thrills or money.

I developed three rules when running morally grey characters. Number one rule is never screw over your team mates. You can use them, but never for anything that would hurt them and make sure they know. Ya gotta follow the bro code. Which leads to the next rule. You MUST have a good rapport with the others. I'm not saying ya gotta hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya but ya have to show at least the kind of care and camaraderie that soldiers show towards each other. Buy each other drinks at the tavern, engage in a bit of banter, give each other nicknames, and always back them up. If you don't like your buddies enough to stick with them then why are you with them? Why are you here in this group if you're gonna be a dick to everyone? Again, this ties into the next thing. Why are you being such a shifty character? Are you just desperate to get the cash for a dying loved one? Are you suffering from a tragic backstory that takes 18 pages to go over? Are you just taking what you think is the most efficient, or at least most simple, way forward? Ya have to have a reason. And the others have to understand and at least respect the logic. But I've only run one or two grey characters but by following these three rules I think I've managed to make characters that the other players could tolerate if not like

One of my first characters that I consider to be an actual character, instead of a character sheet, was morally grey, kinda. He was honorable and loyal, and held loyalty as the highest virtue one should strive for. He was just loyal to a less than ideal person. And that loyalty came from his honor. The man he served saved his life, so his life was now belonged to that man. My guy ultimately left the party in the middle of the night, after they had collected about half of the macguffins, and took them with him. The whole reason he was with the party, was because his master wanted the macguffins, and knew these guys were collecting them. He ended up being a boss fight later, when the party infiltrated the fortress where he had taken the macguffins, it was great

You know what ISN'T morally grey? The lack od spoiler warning on this video :p

Really liked this video, I’m running a Oath of the watchers Paladin that is very loyal to their king that joined a party of anti-authoritarians that happens to be in the middle of fighting a demonic incursion.

I have a character that I've told the players that SHE is OK with killing the other characters for her own goals, but I as a player am not going to let her go that far because that'd ruin everyone's fun. So while she might say a few things that might hint that direction, the players know she won't go there in the end. She was supposed to be like, neutral, but the longer I play her the more evil she seems to go (I mean, the longer we play the more she realises her biggest wish in the world won't happen and she sold her soul for nothing and she's headed towards her biggest nightmare and trying to stop it even though she's fairly certain she can't, so she's getting a bit desperate) But the most important thing here is that I WILL NOT ruin the other players' fun.

One of my current characters is a "fallen" paladin His order turned on him causing him to make a deal with a devil. So now he is a warlock with one level of paladin (plan to go further later once I get to that arc) He is shut off rather dark and can seem rude at times. But I role play it out. And I give small bits of kindness maybe glimpse of his prior life. He is very edgy. But I play him in a way that makes his anger and cynical nature understood. I agree the best way to play a grey character or even a darker natured character is make it seem reasonable to him. Make his trauma and suffering equivalent to his quest.

Grey usually = what’s in ti for Me.

These traits are the reason Jayne is my favorite Firefly character. LOL

What you're describing are creeds and codes. Bringing alignment into it sort of muddies the water here. Your alignment really describes character intention and motivation, but morally grey isn't an alignment and not believing in a binary doesn't exempt you from it. Most 'morally grey' characters are either bad guys that sometimes help out, or good guys who have done bad things. Either could still be descriptions of a lawful or chaotic character, but in the end, your deeds *are* good or bad

In my longest Pathfinder game, my roommate was a Druid Modron, so I guess he was truly the most grey morally of us all XD

Thanks.

The only thing grey about video game Geralt is his hair.

Ok respect for the Ned Kelly drop. For a fantastic retelling, read The True History of the Kelly Gang by Peter Carey, if u haven’t already But also, I play a morally grey character in my party and it hasn’t ground things to a halt. He wants the same basic thing as the rest but is more willing to go beyond the line than the others. It only makes for interesting dynamics