Greetings from Canada! I've been making chainmail for over 30 years and found your video to be extremely informative and interesting - thank you for posting!

Those graphs are absolutely beautiful, my friend was asking about ID/gauge for a commission piece and now I can send them this to explain far better than I could

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

I'm happy that it could help to serve an actual purpose. :)

Very interesting and well presented, thank you! In the world of jewellery mail making, there is a very wide range of patterns used for decorative effect, that were never used in historical armour. It’s common for the description of different patterns to include the ‘aspect ratio’ as a description of the relationship between wire thickness and ring size. Patterns will often give a minimum aspect ratio, below which the mail will not work, and a maximum aspect ratio above which the pattern becomes unattractive or unworkable. Aspect ratio is expressed as a number derived by dividing the inside diameter of the ring by the wire diameter. So, a ring of 8mm internal diameter and 2mm thick wire would have an aspect ratio of 4.

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for adding this explanation! True, for mail jewellery that is a very elementar topic.

Dude. This was an EXTREMELY informational video! Thank you! I’ve been on KZread for a long time and reenactment as well, so I’ve probably watched countless KZread videos on the subject and this, with all the graphs and pictures was easily the BEST and most well put-together one I have ever seen. Rock on!

Excellent presentation. 10/10 would recommend to people interested in the subject.

Great video! I appreciate the graphs :)

@jeanladoire4141

4 жыл бұрын

hehe i knew i would see you here when i saw the level of details this video offers :p

Very informative. This is the best channel I've found to help you learn how to make chainmail. I feel you could practice saying the script more, but you're off to a great start as is. I love that you've made this video. I love the hard work your putting into this. I can't wait to see what more great content you have coming to KZread.

Although very technical, it's a very good, easy to watch and informative video. Great!

Awesome Video, awesome data, awesome graphs, awesome insights from a professional! Absolutely enjoyed this video!

love the graphs

The graphs were a great way to show what you were talking about. Looking forward to more info!

thank you for this. it saves so much time and effort having all this information.

Greetings from Brazil, keep doing videos man, u do an awesome job and helps a lot!

@danielf950

4 жыл бұрын

@@ok-oe3gx Opa. Acredito que o melhor seria arame recozido não-galvanizado, já que sua composição e fabricação são mais parecidas com a da malha histórica (tem baixo teor de carbono e passa por trefilamento), além de ser mais fácil de trabalhar do que as variantes mais resistentes.

This popped up in my recommendations, i'm not likely to change what i'm doing right now, the sizes feel appropriate for what i'm doing. And now after watching, yea, i seem to be on the right track. It's nice to get a confirmation from someone who actually knows what they are doing. So. Yeah. Thanks for the video.

Man, what a great vid. You explained so much, in wicked detail. I've made loads of butted maille, and you are spot on mate!

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your awesome feedback! I felt like there are some people wondering about this, too.

Very good visualization. Nice Video!

what an excellent presentation. I ALWAYS wondered about this.

Ok, finally I have a idea of what rings to buy. Thank you a lot!

@SteelWolf13

4 жыл бұрын

Buy the rings? Gad-zooks man coil your own!

I read some publication some 10-12 years ago that viking chainmails had diameter around 8mm and wire 1.1-1.2. Both values were estimated because rings welded together with rust. If I remember correctly same people did metallurgical analysis of sample and found out alternated rows of solid and riveted rings. Metal impurities followed forging stress. Mind blowing. Btw, I wish that I had this table 10 years ago when I made my chainmail :) I made mine from 3mm wire wound on 13mm mandrel, no rivets, ~30kg.

@Ironskin

2 жыл бұрын

I think I read the same publication by Vegard Vike. 3mm wire sounds heavy. Good on you for making your own chainmail!

@user-qs4cw5bu6e

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, 30kg! What do you think the best wire diameter for chain mail?

probably the most detailed answer to this question I've ever seen

this is actually a really cool video well done

I dont know if im more impressed with the craftsmanship or the graphs haha

Fascinating! Would love to see how flattened rings affect these calculations.

Nice vid with graphs, a little quiz and all

Man, i love this. So scientific and informative.

Thank you!

very good presentation... congratulation...

Excellent video! It was great from the get-go, information-rich and professional, but then you presented charts in Octave, which left me speechless... Hats (and mail coifs) down! ;] It is the best video on KZread regarding chain mail characteristics! Instant subscribe, no second thought, no regrets ;] Live long and prosper Sebastian!

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Wow thank you for the praise! You show me that it was worth the effort! :)

@pavel9652

4 жыл бұрын

​@@Ironskin Octave reminds me projects from the university. I wish I had more opportunity to do more fancy charts in it these days ;] I never thought about its usefulness in simpler things. Octave, as well as Matlab, look more like fancy languages for scientists and mathematicians.

this looks like it will require an unbelievable amount of patients to do. Full respect goes out to anyone who does this. I'm thinking of trying a small patch of chain just to see if it is something i can get into but after all this it looks intimidating.

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

It's like a long journey. You go step by step and enjoy the process. And unlike a painting you can not ruin it by spilling coffee or making a wrong stroke. It's actually very rewarding to make mail.

@twalsh05

Жыл бұрын

I'd imagine it'd take many patients to do, each time you stab a dude test wearing it it's off to ER for him.

Great video!

Good info. I'm going with large, flattened rings made of thick metal to save myself work on a million little rings. I'll do the annealing in the fireplace. I will rivet them instead of butting them

Nice to see something I worked out using butted spring washers in the 80s still be relevant to rivetted ring mail today, my Reenactment friend and I worked out that 6mm was too small making it expensive to make and 10mm or 12mm while making it lighter just wouldn't hold up to the abuse it needed to. We finally chose 10mm spring washers as they were the cheapest per inch to use however after making a sleeveless hauberk from them when we tried it on it turned out to be way too heavy. 😂. We should have investigated making rivetted rings instead with thinner wire but couldn't afford the equipment at that time, oh well, hindsight is always 20/20!

It's a good topic, and many people don't seem to notice it.

this is amazing

very informative ty

Sehr interessant und gut erklärt! Vielen Dank!

Super cool brother

Great vid

This really adds depth to mail In terms of historical combat many have noted piercing as a weakness of mail With rivited mail getting firmer into the picture and this it adds the depth of poorer fighters buying thinner and wider links while the richer bought the smaller and slightly thicker stuff, probably of a higher quality

Very interesting

Math and armor, my kind of video

Very helpful. I was wondering your opinion about the difference between flat, vs. round and washer/rivet types. Thanks, great video.

I make welded mail. the AR i find most ideal is 4, but I'm looking at personal protection and maybe getting into a small corner of the market with AR 3.5 rings. for now I'm sticking to 1.6mm and 2mm wire.

Nice video

Dude, this video is better than many academic defenses lol!

@Ironskin

2 жыл бұрын

:D I'm feeling flattered.

NICE!

Thanks a lot! :D Pretty interesting! : ))

Really great video! Very informative! Visualised measheres do the trick. All mathimatical graphics severely affect the ability to understand. Thank you a lot!!!

My guess was about 200 for that piece that you asked us to guess. Not a bad guess considering I do nothing with chainmail lol

Just a quick question, considering making a chainmail hauberk. How would a ring with the dimensions of 2mm x 7mm function as a hauberk? I am a novice when it comes to maille. I'm working with stainless steel and starting with butted. Thank you very much!

Ill ignore the digs at america because the information was so amazing. Thank you brother!

3:00 8x15(pre-clozed rings) + 7x14(connecting rings) = 218 rings total minimal "posible to weave 4in1" proportion (i experienced) ID/WD near 7/2: ID/WD = 3,14 (for smooth ring) and ID/WD = 3,86 (for rivetted ring) Optimal (in my opinion) proportion ID/WD = 4...4,5 (for smooth ring) and 5...6 (for rivetted ring) I mostly use ID8=mm / WD=2mm for shirt and leggings and ID=4mm / WD=1mm for gloves or mittens smallest ringmail 4in1 i has successfully try is 2mm/0.5mm rings for jewelry (necklace, wristwatch band and some rings) unsuccessfully (unfinished and abandoned wristband) - 1mm/0.25mm rings (too much rings for 1sqr.cm, too small rings - can operate only with pincettes)

What is the best size ratio for defending grom zombie teeth? ;]

6:35 Iron Maiden would be so proud 😁

Great video! Make more....

That's great

Hello Ironskin! I have an unusual question, and you might be one of the only ones who can answer it... I really want to try making chainmail(European 4-in-1 and Japanese 4-in-1/2) out of split rings.. Which size would you get? Since they are a bit thicker than normal ones - not sure which ones to get :c If you don't know the answer about the japanese weave - european should suffice ^^ at least a suggestion :>

I wear my chainmail as a weighted shirt. I'm hoping to make a heavier shirt than I currently have

Hi, great video, what wire diameter do you recommend for riveted maille, and what diameter wire do you recommend for the rivets themselves? What type of wire is best suited for riveted maille making?

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

I'd go with 1.4mm or 1.2mm iron wire and make rings with 8mm inner diameter. I'd use the same wire for the rivets. Here is an overview about which wires are bets suited: www.ironskin.com/materials-for-chainmail/

Just found your channel, amazing stuff and subscribed as quick as I could. Any plans to discuss 8-in-2 patterns?

@Ironskin

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, I'm glad you like it! Hmm 8-in-2 is extremly rare in European history. In fact I don't even know a single example. If you know one, please let me know. From a theoretical perspective it has to be weaker with it's high surface and little wire diameter than 4-in-1 of similar weight and size. That makes it vulnerarble to corrosion and material defects. If the rivets were exceptionally poor, than 8-in-1 would reduce the risk since chances are lower that two bad rings are at one place. I could make a video to talk about thoughts like this.

@Odwolf2

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin Thank you so much. I am wanting to make my own shirt, and was curious if 8-in-2 would make a sturdier body. Great vids, and looking forward to more of your work :)

I've started making some chainmail where the wire is 1,5mm thick and the inner diameter is 6mm. I am a little worried that my rings are a bit small. Is this still an ok size? Note that I am just making butted rings and not rivited

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Your choice will give a rather dense and heavy chainmail. There is nothing wrong with it if you like it this way. For my taste, I would make 9mm rings with that wire. You can also by a wire draw plate and reduce your wire diameter. In that case, I would make 1.1m wire for 6mm rings.

Looking forward to see some more, making my first chain-mail now..mailorderrings :D. Any good litterature you recommend? I found examples with varying ringsizes depending on position on the piece.

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Kristoffer, that was in fact even a thing in the middle ages to use different ring sizes in one garment. I just wrote a brand new article about making a mail shirt: www.ironskin.com/making-a-chainmail-shirt/ I'm sure you will also like Simon's content on chainmail101.com/home

@l70lover

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin Yup I read this article about the ringsizes www.erikds.com/pdf/tmrs-journal-1.pdf I`m heading to your post now.

Good content. Flattened rings would be interesting too, if you have the time. I guess you could avoid the blurring if you deactivate automatic face recognition in your camera.

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the hint! That's very helpful to me. Indeed the video was about round rings only. When it's about flat rings one has to specify how flat they actually are.

@Schmunzel57

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin Maybe you begin with the Dimensions standard Seegerrings have.

Hmm. so I have 3 mm ceiling wire and 3/8in rod. I don't see that on the list. it's workable. but is it in "the correct ratio"?

@PerilousPaddy

11 ай бұрын

You could use a draw plate and stretch your 3mm wire to 1.2mm thus making it perfect for 8mm rings, your 3/8 mandrel is equivalent to 10mm which would be better for 1.7mm wire according to the chart at the end of the video.

Can you make a chainmail combining two types of chain?

@Ironskin

Жыл бұрын

Sure

Nice video! Keep uploading more. How about a video on a shirt pattern?

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

I'm glad you like it. I'm already working on a video about the shirt tailoring.

I was going to buy them but it's 115 aud per 1000... If I need around 20k for a long sleeve it would cost $2,300 wtf? Any recommendations?

@Ironskin

Жыл бұрын

www.ironskin.com/buy-chainmail-where-to-find-quality-riveted-maille/

this might be years late. (maybe centuries) but why not use a spectrum of ring sizes/wire-thickness based on the armor requirements. making the chest of smaller/thicker rings to protect you vital organs and the arms with larger thinner wider to reduce weight and improve mobility of the arms?

@Ironskin

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, some historic mail shirts feature exactly that.

Im having a hard time understanding the graphs im trynna have a little heavier chain mail but still flexible an strong what should be the wire size an ring size i should go with

@scottallen5748

7 ай бұрын

Would 7mm ring size an 1.5 wire work would that add weight an still be flexible or should I go with a 7.5mm or 8 mm ring with the 1.5 wire

@scottallen5748

7 ай бұрын

You said you go with a 1.2 on 8 mm so how much does that weight for a sheet what's a sheet is that a 10" by 10" ??

Onde compro os arames

1:12 what kind of rings were used on that chainmail?

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

These are 5mm rings made with 1.2mm wire. They are butted. The weave is so dense, that there would be no space for a rivet connection.

I would like to use 10 mm rings, or maybe 9 mm, and link them 6 in 1. Some persian mail use 6 in 1 on top of the shoulders.

Hey! Ich mache gerade Ringe! Aber ich wollte mal fragen, wo bekommt man denn diese soliden und ungetrennten Ringe her? Wäre cool wenn du mir da helfen kannst.

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

Hi, die gibt's bei einigen Mittelalter-Händlern. Wenn du bei meiner Ringe-Suchmaschine Loose Rings + Riveted/Solid eingibst, wird dir eine Liste an Händlern vorgeschlagen je nach Größe. www.ironskin.com/chainmail-search/

@Sniperfresser

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin HEY, Tausend Dank, habe den Kommentar garnicht gesehen, war alles abgestellt! Hau rein!

Rived Rings weight per square meter in Kg/m² InnerDiameter in mm x Wire Thickness in mm = Weigth 8.0x1.2 = 5,6 9.0x1.2 = 4,9 8.0x1.4 = 8,2 9.0x1.4 = 6,9 8.0x1.5 = 9,0 9.0x1.5 = 7,7 8.0x1.6 = 10,8 9.0x1.6 = 9,3 8.0x1.8 = 15,1 9.0x1.8 = 13,3 kg/m² just a rough approximation Sebastian correct me if I'm wrong

Very detailled video ! You covered a bit of the theory behind maille, but did you do any tests ? Thin wire might be weaker than heavy gauge, but weaker doesnt mean weak. I think that riveted maille is extremely strong, even when it's quite thin (like 1mm or a bit less). Could you analyse how much we can poke trough each type of maille, and of course how strong it is. So for exemple you oculd give your thoughts on how to get the lightest but most protective armor possible ?

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Jean, I did some testing of wire and rings and I dream of doing some more to put it into a future video. History has of course also been a giant field study of testing chainmail. I think the medieval mail that was found on battlefields like Visby will very like be close to perfection regarding weight to protection (and effort). If we neglect the effort, there could even be a different outcome.

@jeanladoire4141

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin hmm would you make a video about arming doublet's maille? I think that it's very flexible and with small rings too. Also it would be interesting to see how ring size decreases along the arm to the hand (we only see mono size maille nowadays)

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

@@jeanladoire4141 Thank you for the input. That's also interesting! As far as I know, there were mainly different sized recycled patches of maille that got combined to garments. I didn't encounter maille garments with gradually decreasing rings so far.

@jeanladoire4141

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin I'll find you a link to an old archive, from a 13th century maille sleeve... Truly astonishing work : the rings decreased and increased in size to perfectly fit the shapes of the arm... And the maille for the miton was extremely thin (less than 6mm I think). The curators performed a test : they poked the maille with a needle, and it didn't go trough! So here that's not your munition grade maille from the 15th century, it's the maille for a rich lord or even a king

What so you think about making maille in a smaller scale like 1:13?

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

If the diameter is 13 times more than the wire, the rings tend to deform by the weight of the chainmail. You would need a sturdy material as spring steel or similar. I think it's not worth it.

@mina7572

4 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin fair enough, thanks.

I was looking at making my own chain mail but I want to do it right. I want chain mail that is professionally made. I am not making it for show purposes. I want it to be ready to take into battle! I hope I am in the right place!

Здравствуйте! Я изготавливаю кольца из термически обработанной проволоки 1,4 мм толщиной. Проволока у нас называется " Сталь 30". Прут для наматывания пружин диаметром 9,5 мм. Кольца изготавливаю плоские. "Панцирные". Получается отлично. Следующую кольчугу буду изготавливать из этой же проволоки, благо у меня её 17 килограммов, с внутренним диаметром колец 8 мм.

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

Привет, я рад слышать, что ты тоже делаешь кольца. 8 мм - хороший выбор. С 17 кг у вас много работы.

@user-zj9qj7ck1k

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin да. Спасибо. Но это следующий этап. Сейчас я решил завершить этап с кольцами 9 мм. Уже 5 килограммов таких колец готовы. Надо ещё сделать. А потом уже буду браться за 8 мм. Кстати, на первую свою кольчугу я изготавливл пружины вручную. Это долго и крайне утомительно. Теперь, я пользуюсь шуруповёртом. Килограмм проволоки за 1,5 часа неспешной работы получается переработать. И руки не устают.

210 to 225 rings in the 10cm by 10 cm sample shown

what is the 'effort' ?

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

With "effort" I want to express the amount of time needed to make such ring. Good effort means it doesn't take much time to make such rings.

@felixgraphx

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin hmm, even more confusing than i first expected. "good effort" means "less effort" so its bad nomenclature... May I suggest that next time you use "work needed" as terminology. Anyways, Thanks you make great Vids!! :)

is this the guy who made the website? dude... i think chainmail is still to this day the future of armor. i would imagine chain mail embeded within a 3A kevlar panel would both stop knives, and bullets. the cost isnt even that much in relation to modern armor.

@Ironskin

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, Sebastian here. I built ironskin.com. Your idea is good. And in fact some special forces use chainmail as a defence today. Yet chainmail is typically avoided when bullets are expected rather than knives. If a projectile manages to break the mail, you end up additionally having fractions of the rings in the body.

The internet told me to use 16 gauge wire with a 5/16” inner diameter, which is good because I could get 16 gauge mild steel rebar tie wire at my local Home Depot.

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Good choice! That's the American equivalent to my favorite 8mm ID with 1.2mm wire.

@stairwayunicorn4861

Жыл бұрын

Rebar is not bad, especially for riveted since that requires annealing

@stairwayunicorn4861

Жыл бұрын

@@Ironskin that 16g wire is 1.6mm

ich hab im Museum in Moskau mal türkische Kettenhemden gesehen, die ringe waren fett und flach wie dicke unterlegscheiben. ID ca. 12mm. mal sehen ob ich noch ein Foto oder ne Quelle finde.

min max ur stats bro but also what if you combined ring size and wire types to have a thick and potentially somewhat large ring and have smaller rings off of that

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

That's a creative solution! Would be worth trying.

I wanna make chain mail shirt.

@Ironskin

4 жыл бұрын

Welcome to the chainmail makers! On my website you find some tutorials: www.ironskin.com/tutorials/

Идеальное соотношение толщины к диаметру. Тут кроется Диавол!!!

How the hell did medieval armorers make so much damn chainmaille

@Ironskin

2 жыл бұрын

It is impressive isn't it. Once the mail has been made, it can be used for generations. So perhaps some medieval mail was made in times long before. The Romans already had a lot of mail armor.

interessant schade das es nicht auf deutsch ist

Please add Korean subtitles.

Dude the graphs are very helpful. Sub asap

Lang lebe das Metrischesystem!!!!

You really love chain mail right? 😏

Für mehr Mathematik und Wissenschaft ^.^

the first one has too many rings

But ... do small rings save weight ?

@Ironskin

3 жыл бұрын

If it has to provide the same strength there is no big difference, but the gap size is smaller though.

Deutscher Überschrift und englisch sprechen? Leider verstehe ich nicht.

Without watching it - No - more metal doesnt make it lighter. Makes it more metally. Im being a bit of an asshole, but the point of this video is to tell me, that small ring are smaller than big rings.

Good day fellow craftsman, I see your expertise in this topic and because I for myself am interseted in this kind of craftmanship I would propose you to direct message me to exchange some simple knowledge and experience.