It always blows me away how you can deconstruct a process to it's bare bones and get a result at a fraction of the cost and you gladly share all your knowledge. You're a true pillar of the community for sharing!

@clown134

Жыл бұрын

it's proof that like 80% of most industries are fluff and bloated profits surely for the benefit of CEOs

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

Not to be disrespectful to the guy. but he knows nothing about chemical etching. Whatever he proposed with his video is nothing but a silly game and those components will never end up in anything that you would like to use. He can maybe make some machinery which is very interesting. But he just made chemical etching look bad and he made all the mistake you can make when etching something. I guess he has his place on youtube ;) but not anywhere near what a professional chemical etcher would do.

@yamiomo7392

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Flo.Official Some salty idiot named mr flo got upset that companies are inflating costs of products for no apparent reason other then to make money. Most of the time the answers are simple and cheap.

@yamiomo7392

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Flo.Official insult him all you like, I will still go with this dudes methods over giving business to stingy con artists any day.

@capnthepeafarmer

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Flo.Official "He knows nothing about chemical etching" he literally showed the process on how to chemically etch metal, and the issues you will have and how to solve them. You couldn't be anymore wrong on your assessment.

That did not feel like a 22 minute video. Super fascinating stuff! As always, your projects get my imagination going with all sorts of new ideas.

@nugenki

Жыл бұрын

My eyes were glued like I was watching a tv show or something. Incredibly interesting and produced.

@elideaver

Жыл бұрын

didn't even check the timestamp: this comment just saved my lab report

@urdnal

Жыл бұрын

It's his mellow tone. Lures you in.

@geoffgunn9673

Жыл бұрын

Got to agree with everyone, it seems there is no time passing when watching, Mesmerizing videos with very informative information, Always learn something interesting

@andymouse

Жыл бұрын

Never long enough !

Another neat thing with photoetch is you can do partial depth to make fold lines,like scoring cardboard. Probably needs finer process control,though might be worth trying just putting them on one side .

@TheCunningFellow

Жыл бұрын

Mike, Yes it is normal practice to have the fold lines etched only from one side. The Asteriod Belt shown here content.instructables.com/ORIG/FEJ/ID3W/HFSHFI10/FEJID3WHFSHFI10.jpg does that by having half etched lines. The photo tool for the back here content.instructables.com/ORIG/F8D/ELWM/HFSHFHYS/F8DELWMHFSHFHYS.png has thin lines for the folds but the front side is solid. The same for the buttons so the arrows and symbols are only etched half way through.

@patkirk960

Жыл бұрын

@@TheCunningFellow Thanks.. how is it that KZread is happy with your links?

@TheCunningFellow

Жыл бұрын

@@patkirk960 I didn't know youtube censored URLs. I guess if the disappear you can search for "The asteroid belt instructable" and scroll down to step 5. I used "toner transfer" there because I was told instructables readers prefered to see simpler tech than dry film photoresist.

@patkirk960

Жыл бұрын

@@TheCunningFellow Thanks. Yes they certainly remove them somehow I'm sure automatically but somehow folks circumvent the censorship!

@djmips

Жыл бұрын

@@TheCunningFellow Some lovely extra engineering in your instructable that's above and beyond the average. The extra yet simple hardware to clear the screen and to reduce the overhead from code was delightful.

I'm thinking you could print some markings on the 4 corners of each transparent mask so that you could use a moire pattern technique for easy and clear alignment of the masks when you need to overlay them. I hear this technique is pretty good and can even allow you to quantify the degree of alignment.

@clairekholin6935

9 ай бұрын

That would be a cool methods

Hi Ben, The specialty black inks are great, but if you want to use a regular inkjet then sometimes yellow dye inks can be more opaque to UV light because of UV inhibitors to stop fading. Also a Stouffer Gauge will help a lot working out your exposure times. Cunning Fellow (The guy that did The Etchinator)

@lordsqueak

Жыл бұрын

Would it be visual at the end? I mean, can you easily inspect the quality when its printed? I'd imagine , no? But maybe a mix of dyes?

@TheCunningFellow

Жыл бұрын

You can see the yellow ink with your eyes no problem. A non yellow light source like a large blue LED will enhance it. But really the developed dry film is the thing you should be inspecting most closely.

@darkmf666

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Although the uv blocking power of different coloured inks depends highly per brand and type. Epson alone already has 4 or 5 different ink lines. The best are the pigment type, the dye inks are really poor uv blockers. Your best approach is to print a step wedge with all the different ink colors and see which blocks the most. More uv blockage can really up the contrast and sharpness of the lines you want to etch

@innacrisis6991

Жыл бұрын

Do you know any particularly good yellow inks for this kind of thing?

@TheCunningFellow

Жыл бұрын

Inna - Pigment inks naturally block more light so if your printer uses pigment inks (Epson would call them DuraBright or UltraChrome) then black is the best option. If your printer uses dye ink (Epson Claria) then the black does not block the UV as well as the yellow. The yellow is most susceptible to fading from the sun, so they add UV inhibitors (sun screen) to the yellow ink. Most brands of dye yellow that claim they are light fast or don't fade in the sun will do the same.

So excited every time a new Applied Science video is released!

@bry29bry

Жыл бұрын

They're literally brain candy! 🍬

@2nd-place

Жыл бұрын

It’s easy to get excited when they only release a video a few times per year.

Coming from someone who has years of photochemical machining experience, your setup and process is pretty spot on. Great job!

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

You call that spot on from a PCM background?😂 come on man. This is an insult to the process. Good to say “playing with FeCl” but not comparing with industrial. Must admit was amazing to watch from entertaining purposes tho.

@joshuamunson2876

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Flo.Official I do. For a diy at home setup it's covering all the necessary bases. When you break down the milling process you have some basic concepts that need to be implemented. He implemented all the required ones.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuamunson2876 agree :)

I work with/design stamped parts and source mesh all the time… Stainless, zinc/tin plated parts and stainless/epoxy coated steel mesh. A lot of our vendors are willing to do stamping tooling on the cheap (

"the mess is going to be beyond spectacular" is a phrase that I am going to start using from now on.

For registering the masks/artwork you can get an anti-parralax magnifier or collimating magnifier - they're often used for 4 color printing - look for para-mag magnifier or caprock stripmaster series. 7x or 7 power should be enough.

@Snarkerd

Жыл бұрын

Never heard of those. Good tip! With appropriate fiducial marks and a microscope, you can be surprisingly accurate hand aligning. I have bonded so many 30 micron pitch flex circuits by hand.

@miscbits6399

Жыл бұрын

In addition, the masks should be taped to a spacer of the same thickness as the sheets including their resist coatings (ie, a strip of the stuff) That's experience from registering and etching double sided PCBs back in the 80s ... :) I'd create some light box tubes around those 405nm lights too. This will greatly increase the luminous flux at the sheet surface whilst reducing purple light spillage where it can cause trouble - it was more important back in the days when UV sources were being used - The setup I used had a large mercury arc lamp set 5 feet from the PCB surface and you _really_ didn't want your corneas being exposed to it

@michaelharris679

Жыл бұрын

It could be used to calibrate for stretching as well by printing 2 square or circle patterns and comparing them at 90° to each other. What he's worked out is incredible as is, but it's very close to being something wildly more precise.

@pentachronic

Жыл бұрын

Use multiple angles of diagonal lines on both bottom and top. You can see fringing very easily. Zone plate idea.

Hi Ben, I used to design machines used in photolithography and the photoresists coaters. We used to etch parts on sheets of glass, etching gold and titanium layers. We used to use spin coaters. The nozzles would be placed above a spinning chuck that was made of nylon. The whole thing was surrounded by a big tub with sides higher than the spin axis. The force of the acid falling, hitting the surface and then being flung off was enough at 1000 rpm to take the debris away. For the underside we had nozzles firing the acid up at the underside surface.

Ben stuns again with his brilliance and creativity. Did you see how EASILY he defeated that printer's transparency limitation? Loved it.

The work you put into these projects is completely mind blowing.

@willsheehan2975

Жыл бұрын

I can't imagine having to sort through and store all the gadgets involved, never mind having to buy them all

Super cool project It blows my mind that we live in an age where knowledge like this can be shared so easily

@Relatablename

Жыл бұрын

This is the true power of the information age

That magnetic setup on the etching machine is amazing. I could see something like that used for cleaning 3D printed resin parts. This whole video is a how-to start your own photochemical machining company.

I love this guy. He makes me happy to be alive.

It's almost creepy how you come out with videos that answer the questions that I AM CURRENTLY STRUGGLING WITH. I'm talking about... the same day. It's super helpful, but also unsettling.

@FireCrack

Жыл бұрын

Same thing for me, I just watched a video on model making and was wondering "how are those photo etch detail kits àctually made?"

@brad3378

Жыл бұрын

Let's test your theory. What are you working on now?

@jonathanseagraves8140

Жыл бұрын

@@brad3378 At the time I was in the process of torturing myself trying to get the dry film photoresist to adhere good enough to copper laminate. If you look really closely you can tell Ben is actually having the same issue. The film delaminates during the etch around the edges. Sometime delaminating completely. I haven't found any technique that will work well enough to have 1mm or less resolution. But I have found something that does actually work pretty well. It is labeled as "Photoresist Anti-etching Blue Ink Paint For DIY PCB." It's a thick blue ink that needs to be cut with acetone. You can either spray it on with a "Devilbiss" style paint sprayer (which will give you a better, flatter finish" OR you can go to an auto parts store that carries "Preval" paint sprayers. They are like a mix your own spray paint kit. pretty cheap, and works well enough. You have to dry the board well (quickest I've found is with a couple fans in a closet with one of those Edenpure heaters set to 90 degrees F. Important note: You can not heat the photoresist ink past 100 degrees or so or it will cure the ink and will spoil the board. It will dry and not be tacky, or will only be very slightly tacky. Then you can expose and develop the same way you would the dry film. As long as you clean the board as per Ben's instructions you should have NO problem with lift off and the edges are crisp. Thing to note, the vapors whilst spraying will probably give you cancer... sooo.... well ventilated area, a respirator, or roll them dice.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

@@jonathanseagraves8140 so way on earth would you not use wet resist? When i see amateur etchers trying to use dry resist i just turn it off. He has so many flaws in this video. Fun to watch. But not the setup You should use for better results in your garage :)

@jonathanseagraves8140

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Flo.Official Short answer is I don't know where to buy it + sunk time fallacy + I don't know what product I should be looking for in the first place... I will take any info you have.

One method to improve the density and reduce the pinholes in laser printed output is to use color foils (also called toner reactive film). You run it through a hot laminator or back through your laser printer with the color side against your artwork, and the color film fuses the toner, but not to the areas on your artwork that have no toner. I use it when I am etching PCB's at home. (For PCBs, I print the art on release paper, laminate it to the PCB, then do a short soak in water which disolves a layer of the release paper, allowing you to peel the paper away from the PCB leaving the toner artwork on the PCB. Then I run it through the laminator with color foil which helps with density and pinholes. Then I etch the board w/ ferric choloride.) The color foils don't work with inkjet, though.

@weldandcutdotcom

Жыл бұрын

would you mind providing a link to the release paper as well as the color foil paper that you use?

@cannesahs

Жыл бұрын

(Bookmarking for reply wait)

@TwoSpoons100

Жыл бұрын

I've used a product called 'Press-n-Peel Blue' for this. You can print directly on the film then laminate that to the copper pcb. Can be tricky to get the laminating right - pressure and temperature need good control. And everything has to be kept dust free. I've used this for PCBs, and for sheet metal parts. 5mil track/space is possible (just).

@SidneyCritic

Жыл бұрын

@@weldandcutdotcom You can't use external links in KZread or they get deleted. You can also get banned, like when I used a fake comedic email name and got banned.

@YodaWhat

Жыл бұрын

@@SidneyCritic What about 'fudging' link so that the filterbot does not recognize the link? Like mmm d0t earl d0t corn (that was typed as CORN) ??

For more precise alignment (at least during the tape phase), you could use a moiré pattern , possibly with a vernier type setup (so one registration is slightly smaller on one side). Then you could align the interference pattern. Although I’m not sure such precision would be necessary, so you could probably just go with interrupted overlapping lines on the cross pattern (similar to how polymer bank notes have transparency alignment patterns)

Just went through this process and contacted all the vendors you mentioned in the intro for making a few shadow masks for a metal evap tool. Was thinking the whole time this is something I could just do in my shop and it's crazy expensive. Of course I just thought it and you actually did it! I don't have enough demand to build it but it sure would be nice if an OSH-ETCH or SendEtchSend sprang from these efforts!!

@MaltandMake

Жыл бұрын

What a coincidence, I've just done the same for a project too!

@CollectiveSoftware

Жыл бұрын

ETCH-PARK

@TandaMadison

Жыл бұрын

@@MaltandMake Fancy meeting you here!... but not at all surprised.

@TandaMadison

Жыл бұрын

@@CollectiveSoftware Yes, that's better, we'll go with that one!!

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

Not to be disrepectful. But what sort of tolerance you need your shadow masks to be at? The setup presented won’t offer anywhere newr +/- 1-2 mm. Also the details and peel of he gets are soooo bad to watch coming from a PCM background :)

Your idea about a "really clean air source" sounds very familiar to another interest of mine, mushroom farming! They need sterile workspaces and they use large like 2 foot by 3 foot HEPA filter pointed down to create a sterile downdraft area to handle spore prints and gather samples without contamination. They don't even cost all that much, and with a custom hood could make a real nice drying area. I have thought about this for another area I am interested in, beer brewing, as an area to store a kveik ring to dry and keep from contamination.

@will6699

Жыл бұрын

HEPA filters really are amazing. I do research using flat sheet media and they can handle concentrations greater than 10 million particles/cm^3 at well over 5 cfm through the filter (more than a billion particles a minute!) and still capture 99.97% of the particles.

@thaibinhphamdinh1299

Жыл бұрын

I worked in electronic manufacturing and we usually have clean booth. It is just a tent made from extruded aluminium and plastic sheet, with a filter unit on top. The booth is just large enough for a small table where a worker sit to assemble dust sensitive parts like camera or screen. The filter unit is just a fan blow into HEPA filter to create positive pressure inside the booth. There is also ion generator for ESD protection and some LED light. There is also a mini table top version, and some assembly machine have integrated filter unit on top to keep the inside clean. Pretty easy to DIY something like that.

Regarding the transparency and the special ink. I had the same problem 25 years ago making masks for exposing PCB's. Came to the conclusion that printing on ordinary paper worked well enough. The laser toner sticks really well to paper, the coverage is 100% without pinholes. And the UV used to expose the photo resist went through just fine. I had to mirror flip the design so that the printed side of the paper touched the photo resist.

@Roxor128

Жыл бұрын

Okay, that's interesting that the toner sticks fine to paper, but not transparencies. I'm more surprised to hear about the UV transparency of the paper, though!

In the past I used the head from an photo collimator for a similar UV exposure process where we needed collimated light. Your setup seemed to do the trick just fine, but we needed it to be up close in my application. Its a reasonably cheap way to get get it done as you can fine them second hand. Did have to air cool the lenses as they got a bit hot from the high powered UV light sources :) Mesh bag was a slick idea! Really great video once again

Couple of thoughts from when I used to home etch PCBs: Laser printing onto tracing paper works much better than transparencies,you nerd to use thick stuff,>90gsm to stop crinkling in the fuser. When aligning the artwork, stapling works well as you can align accurately with the sheets completely flat against each other,but you do need a setup where the staples overhang the edge when exposing, less of an isdue with PCBs due to the thickness of the board

I'd recommend replacing FeCl3 with ammonium persulfate. I was happy to finally be able to check etching process at any time.

@Scrogan

Жыл бұрын

Persulfate is significantly slower from what I remember.

@craigs5212

Жыл бұрын

@@Scrogan That is what I used for PCB's hot and fresh it worked great, not sure it would work on stainless steel, never etched my stainless dasher rod and paddle of my etcher.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

Very slow etch rate compared with FeCl3.

@user-yb5cn3np5q

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Flo.Official As already mentioned in this comment section, heat it.

wow i'm sure that i am not alone in thinking that i'd happily wait months for a vid from Ben. they always all-around perfect. length, audio, video.. then the content.. absolutely fantastic. seeing prototyping is amazing, but seeing Bens prototyping is the epitome of excellence for video. descriptions or ups and downs and gotchas... full of information and helpful and still concise.. WHY IS NOT 1M SUBS YET???

What sort of pump did you find that can handle ferric chloride without disinregrating?

@ericlotze7724

8 ай бұрын

As per ~ 18:48 they are "Air Operated Double Diaphragm Pumps" and appear to be made by "ARO". So Basically it's almost like a drum (the instrument) with pipes over the external "drum heads". Air is pumped into the "drum", the diaphragms push out a bit, and if the "pipes" are designed all fancily and some one way valves are used one can make a pump. These not only can be really chemical resistant, but some can even pump abrasive slurries!

"arbitrary" "extrusion" "beyond spectacular" this guy is on an unreachable level of DIY

I have been doing a variation of this. Instead of printing on transparencies and then using an UV exposure station I used a cheap resin 3d printer to expose my artwork on the resist. (The kind where a UV light is projected through a digital screen to solidify the resin. I have been using an Elegoo Saturn. I just remove the vat and put the plate on the screen.) It worked quite okay for me. I got some niece pieces. The theoretical benefit is that you have zero setup cost. The very real drawback is that if you want to etch from two sides (and you want to etch from two sides) then you need to flip the plate and place it very precisely at the same spot on the resin printer's screen. To be able to achieve that I have made a kind of jig holding a usb microscope solid relative to the printer. If you do an exposure without the plate being present you can see the invididual pixels of the resin printer with the microscope. And then you can use this to align the second side of the plate very precisely. I have made this decorative orrery using the technique: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fX9ntsuOh7a6kqw.html

As I'm in the process of researching etching, in my case to make data plates, you post this video. Usually your videos send me down a new rabbit hole. It's amazing how much trial and error, research, and practical experience you can compress into one of these videos.

Nice that you highlighted the alignment problem many people will run into. I've seen cases where people even closed off a third side, creating a sort of envelope for the metal sheet.

As others have said, great work as usual X) For the registration alignment of the two layers of transparency - what about using an overhead projector? Put both sheets on the glass, then use the projected image to align the parts. Not a huge amount of magnification, but even 3~5x with good ergonomics would help.

@jonasghafur4940

Жыл бұрын

That’s brilliant!

I really appreciate how you not only show your successes but discuss your challenges in these projects. I have one suggestion if you ever wanted to revisit this. Back in my PCB etching days I found that a viable alternative to spray etching is bubble agitation of the etchant. Putting a fine mesh bubbler grid at the bottom of the tank below the part has similar performance to high pressure spray with the added benefit of not having the etchant running in the plumbing and pump. Both spray and bubbling end up with the same effect of getting fresh etchant to the metal being etched. Just putting the material in a still tank ends up with the etching site having lower concentration of fresh FeCl as the already combined products only slowly move away from the reaction plane. Bubbling seems to have a similar effect as spraying, constantly introducing fresh FeCl to the etch site increasing the overall reaction speed. My first test of this setup didn't anticipate how dramatic the difference was vs simple etchant circulation, so I etched too long and ended up undercutting the mask so much that all the copper was removed from the board! Not quite the result I intended.

@miscbits6399

Жыл бұрын

The problem with bubblers is that no matter how much filtration you have, there's a constant outflow of ferric chloride saturated air from the tank and things get..... corroded... in the vicinity. We ended up swapping out the bubbler for a couple of model boat props on very long shafts run through the tank lid When etching copper, there are alternatives to ferric chloride. It's reliable but messy and makes even stainless steel rust High strength hydrogen peroxide + hydrochloric acid (we used to call this the 6 second etch - extremely dangerous in high concentrations) - this works really well and lasts virtually forever (used ferric chloride is an environmental hazard due to the copper in it) - this also eats stainless steel so use with caution Ammonium persulphate works really well too There are a few instructables around on this stuff, but etching steel or other metals will have different ideal etchants

@IFS

Жыл бұрын

@@miscbits6399 I don't disagree that air filtration is a necessity with bubbler systems. I used an activated charcoal fume capture with good results. I didn't mention that point since I was comparing to a spray etch system which has very similar exhaust air filtering needs, but thanks for pointing this out.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

Why would you go for that instead of normal Horizontal conveyor with oacillating sprays top and bottom? It’s an oxidation reaction which will allow good circulation of fecl3 while solids deposit at the bottom of sump and also have enough flow contact with the substrate. Sounds interesting what you tried anyway.

@IFS

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Flo.Official Good questions. Answers: this was ~1981 in a lab setup for prototyping boards. I already had a etchant circulating dunk style tank which I could convert by reversing the hose connections to pump air vs liquids, and didn't need to add parts. This was long enough ago that I was prototyping by drawing circuits with resist tape, not even photo resist.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

@@IFS i see :) things changed since.

If no one else has mentioned it, look at the clean air boxes that mushroom growers use. It might work for drying the metal after cleaning if you’re doing large batches

@Chualeilei

10 ай бұрын

laminar flow hood, you can DIY them pretty easily

"The mess is going to be beyond spectacular... Okay let's press the start button" 😂

People of post apocalyptic future will thank you for this content. Very informative.

I make circuit boards using laser printer toner for the resist. I use a heated 'laminator' to apply it. My artwork _IS_ my resist. It took a few tries to get right combination of backing paper, heat, and pressure dialed in but it was an inexpensive and rapid process. I purchased the highest resolution BUDGET monocrome laser printer I could find and have much success. I don't know if toner would survive your mesh bagged etching intact though.

@DEtchells

Жыл бұрын

One note on using toner transfer. I don’t know if this is still the case, but at least formerly, Brother’s toner didn’t work for the process. I don’t recall the details, think it maybe had a much higher fusing temperature so it was hard to get it properly melted to stick to the PCB material.

I'm always impressed by your big brain projects and how well you explain them so the layman can still understand the process. I'm retired and will likely never do most of what you show but I really enjoy learning new things and find your projects interesting.

every upload is like watching a magic show. and you still tell us how its done and im still in awe

19:56 “…the mess is just gonna be beyond spectacular! Ok let’s press the start button!” Hahah! This was so awesome man. Awesome work.

Dude! Awesome. You inspire me to get out in my garage and tinker around. Thanks for letting all of us look over your shoulder while you work on projects!

Very cool! It's quite similar to the process I've used for home PCBs, an Epson inkjet is pretty much mandatory for getting that super-dense artwork-- and yeah, pretty annoying you have to use a piece of paper as a backing to get it to detect the transparency. I use a medium-format Artisan 1430 outfitted with a CISS system to make sure I never run out of ink. Now that Epson has come out with Econo-cart refillable systems it sure makes the whole process straightforward, using special high-density inks. For developer I do like using sodium metasilicate since it seems a bit more forgiving. Also using a vacuum-bag to hold the artwork against the boards is a lot less hassle than getting pairs of glass pieces to sandwich the artwork/board and making sure it has even pressure across the whole piece. For single-sided boards I just use a consumer vacuum-sealer/bag, though I have to make a bag out of heavy plastic tarp for double-sided boards since they have printed stuff on one side of the vacuum bags. To seal them I use the rubber tape which is used for carbon fiber/fiberglass resin infusion, as well as sealing around the vacuum hose. Very easy to use, strong, and virtually leak-proof.

Wow, I'm the person the algorithm's working for right this instant - I just switched tabs from a online auction where I'd spent spent about a quarter hour studying the photos for a photochemical machining setup which for sale for about $25k. I just came to the conclusion that it's unnecessarily complicated and expensive for what I can do in my studio given a little patience and slightly more swearing. Of course it would make sense if you needed 60 of something.

"I like to tinker in the shop", must say that that's some next level tinkering, good sir! Love your videos and explanation!

This whole process is very similar to offset printing plates. But they were in aluminum, and only partially etched into the plates for printing. We did quite a lot of these in our class. This was highschool graphics class, back when the 486 was being conquered by the pentiums. We used all Macs though for that class. Don't remember what they were, but early 90's style machines. The large camera is what we used to make our transparencies. Literally a giant wall with a huge lens, and a room behind it to put the transparent film onto it. We developed it right then and there. I bet film transparency would be even better than inkjet as far as detail goes. We then used this on a the plate that was pre-covered with resist, put it in the light bath thing for a few minutes, and then washed it off in a special bath and unknown chemicals (at the time), and then rinsed them, and the plate was done.

I've gone through almost exactly this process in the last week so this couldn't have come at a better time! I ended up going with a spray photo resist and then removing the resist with a galvo laser since I was making a decorative brass piece but this seems like a fascinating method too! I'm not sure if adding citric acid to the ferric chloride will help with stainless but so called Edinburgh Etch is a more efficient etch used in copper plate print making. The theory being the citrate helps to keep the etched material soluble.

@MaltandMake

Жыл бұрын

In case others want to take a deep dive: I've also though about using a resin 3D printer as a direct digital-to-plate technology. I've seen videos about doing this for PCBs. Since they have a UV source and the screen acts as a digital resist, you can put the sensitised plate on the screen directly. As the printers get bigger, hopefully there'll be more spare parts available to make a dedicated unit for exposures at a usable size.

I'm jealous of how smart and articulate this guy is. I wish more minds were like his.

You never cease to amaze us with your ideas and projects.

I know you can use Miore patterns, which are large macro patterns that naturally appear while adjusting the alignment between parts with fine regular features, to quickly alignment-tune industrial survey equipment *by hand* to a surprising degree of accuracy. (Even to the point where the expensive high accuracy measurement equipment was only necessary as a QC / fine-tuning step, improving production rates etc.) I wonder, if you put a a differently spaced dot pattern on each side of the print if that would enable you to do fine alignment of the two layers by eye ( 13:00 ).

@sarowie

Жыл бұрын

the awesome thing about your idea is that he can still use the typical cross as rough adjust, sanity check and fallback. It adds to the precision, without taking anything away.

@AlenHR

Жыл бұрын

I used moire patterns to calibrate the flatbed printer for lenticular printing. It is annoying to get it to align perfectly, but you get some mad precision.

@Snarkerd

Жыл бұрын

Vernier calipers use a similar trick to let you read extremely fine measurements. It's such a clever idea, I was amazed when I learned to use them.

@DEtchells

Жыл бұрын

Great idea to use moirés! They should make very fine alignment easy without magnification or squinting.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

Aligning the tool is one of the biggest challenges when it comes to preserving misalignement top to bottom. He will never get any sort of grids good enough for any applications doing it this way. :) He never discused about how shrinking affects alignement etc etc.

Great to see this, thank you for your dedication and knowledge

Ben, thanks for the video, brings back memories of make PCB boards before you could buy them dirt cheap. I like your etching tank, for PCB's I has a splash tank. It was about a foot cube tank epoxied plywood. You put about 1 to 2 inches of etchant in the bottom. A motor driven dasher paddel splashed it all over the board with good force. --worked very well. The final improvement that I never finished was to make a raster direct UV laser diode imager. No need to do any lithography. I met a guy Zoltan who converted a old printer, replacing the print head with laser source and lens. He got some amazing resolution from the hack. One thought I had was to convert a laser printer poly scanning mirror and lens from the IR to a UV laser for the X axis then use a stepper driven Y axis stage to advance to the next line.

I’m blown away. You just singlehandedly recreated and improved upon a modern manufacturing process in your garage. There might be what, 300 people in the world who could pull this off?

Such elite in-house (literally) mfg capability. Desperately waiting for the applied science 1um IC PDK to drop

Absolutely amazing! Thank you so much for sharing! 💜

The synchronicity of this is just astounding. Yesterday I was looking for this exact thing and found no real good guides on youtube, until I found this - which you uploaded yesterday. Great video!

I can always count on this channel to introduce me to a topic or project I have never even considered before and then hold my fascinated attention for 22 minutes. Well done!

I can imagine a fully automated system doing all those steps. No wonder why the comercial option is so expensive. Amazing video as always!

@sarowie

Жыл бұрын

plus the latent risk that the panel fails for whatever reason and having to rerun in from scracth. Plus litteral shipping and handling of parts that are very fragile. Even leaving them in the frame, you can etch artifacts that might bend.

@Kenionatus

Жыл бұрын

@@sarowie However, with turnaround times of three or four times you could "outsource" quality control to the customer and it would still be faster to do a more tightly controlled rerun and ship that than the current companies' multi week turn around time.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

@@sarowie fail? Come on. His results are an insult for someone who knows chemical Etching. The peel of. Losing ridgetops. Undercut he is got. Good joke. And that’s how I watched the video. Good entertaining. But let’s not say “how bad” chemical etching companies are. 😂🙏🏻

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

@@Kenionatus not always the case. If you project is got good forecast you are a good candidate for PCM. If you only need 1-2 components and this setup presents results to your need - why not using lasercutting? So much cheaper and faster for prototyping if quality is not needed 🤷🏼‍♂️

+1 on another great vid comments :) From a former pro photographer who started in the age of film, a couple of potential resources for old photo tech that could be cheaply adapted: 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 and custom sized sheet film used to be sent through the machines on these stainless steel racks that had standard and adjustable rungs and spacers that would firmly hold several sheets in each rack. The film was held firmly around the perimeter and wouldn’t come loose-I wonder if you could find some of those kicking around somewhere... dunno if Adolph Gasser is still open but they used to have huge piles of photo junk in the basement. I once scored 3 or 4 big enlarger uprights for a song. Hand cranked sturdiness... Also if anyone in your network is closer than Kevin Bacon to any of the good people who worked at the New Lab, buying them lunch in exchange for describing how their big E-6 line functioned would be invaluable, and would probably come with some great stories to boot. One last aside regarding plastic compatibility: I recently threw together an electrolyzer for water-splitting (because BANG!!!) and found the hard way that few plastics do well with strong KOH solutions, including polycarbonate and acrylic-which makes me think of all those electrolyzer kits with the clear outer walls, and how I wasn’t able to find any common clear plastic that was considered to be at all good for long-term contact with strong alkali solutions... I used polycarbonate because it doesn’t shatter but the KOH took it to pieces in days. Anyway thanks for another good episode :) Wells

Thank you for your content. Its always pushing the boundaries of what is capable in the home shop. You're an big inspiration

Thank you for uploading. I never do anything particularly useful with the information you provide but you’re always extremely informative and entertaining. I appreciate every video.

Regarding the plastic fittings at 19:40, you might want to try Fit-line PVDF or PFA Flare fittings. The PVDF fittings are cheaper and might be all you need. These fitting are more likely to handle the heat, pulsating pressure, and corrosiveness of your fluid.

For the mask, you could perhaps use a film imager (recorder?) for offset printing. Nowadays many printshops use direct-to-plate imaging, but you may find a used film imager for cheap. The film that goes with it is high-contrast, high-resolution (we used to do 2,400 ppi) and designed for near-perfect registration. Of course, this involves its own film development workflow, which you may not want to fuss with.

@TrippLilley

Жыл бұрын

Came here to say this. Useful ebay terms include "imagesetter" and brands "linotype" and "agfa". Beautiful output and perfect for this application.

Thank you SO much, I was about to buy a fiber laser for super fine details but then this, you are my hero

Loved it! And that's probably the most applied science you've shown on the channel

Thanks a lot. This is exactly what I need to make my miniature parts. I was using tonner transfer for making these small parts but its not that reliable. You can see me using this process in my mini hummer ev video.

This is how I make my PCB prototypes :) I use immersion oil (for microscopy), between the photomask and photoresist - the edges come out much sharper.

@marcoaurelio4903

Жыл бұрын

Me too. I use ky lube instead. easily dissolves in water

@AndrewShevchuk

Жыл бұрын

@@marcoaurelio4903 If it is suitable in terms of optical characteristics and has similar refractive properties, then it is possible.

Very cool. Very glad to see this work. Amazing that you can do this kind of operation by yourself in a household environment. These are my favorite kinds of video. Can't wait to see what you bring to us next!

this channel is by far the best applied sciences and engineering channel I have seen. each and every video that is made is detailed to near perfection and the presentation of the work leaves you with virtually no questions about it. thank you for giving us quality content throughout the years.

Aftermarket photietch for scale models is pretty cool. Also incredibly expensive to buy pre-made stuff so there are inexpensive kits that couple everything for you. MicroMark has a small size kit with everything you need for about 110 dollars (obviously doesn't have a printer included though) Plasmo has a good video on this subject too but it's a lot less precise since it's done on the super cheap with the simplest set up possible

Wow, the amount of good information in this video is absolutely huge. But Ben, how are you ever going to start your own succesful etching business if you are telling us all your secrets? ;-)

@vmiguel1988

Жыл бұрын

I guess he already dropped the idea 😂

@Erhannis

Жыл бұрын

The video reads a lot like "somebody please make a business out of this so I can buy cheap parts from you rather than make them myself. Look, here, I even made you a business model."

you are putting an entirely new spin on the term "Side Hustle!" Great to follow your work. and as always, thanks for sharing your time with us!

Fascinating project as always, did you ever find a suitable material that could handle the ferric chloride solution?

Having refined my own home dry film based PCB etching process, it was really neat to see your variations for doing just metal instead of copper on fr4 or phenolic. The laser printers work pretty well as long as you do two layers of transparencies stacked and aligned, and expose with the toner facing the dry film, at least for PCB usage. Otherwise your process is actually surprisingly similar. I just use a cheap USB aquarium air pump to agitate my (vinegar and h2o2 and nacl) etchant, it's plenty for thin copper clad PCB and a good deal safer than ferric chloride

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

Well done. Sounds way better doing it that way.

@AureliusR

Жыл бұрын

Vinegar, hydrogen peroxide and salt can etch copper?!

@rpavlik1

Жыл бұрын

@@AureliusR yep! Not super fast, but it will turn into brown gunk that you keep brushing off (or you let an aquarium air pump keep it turbulent enough for you), and it will etch. You still get a "liquid with copper in it" at the end to dispose of safely but it's not pure danger in a bottle like ferric chloride.

@Mr.Flo.Official

Жыл бұрын

@@AureliusR easy. But need agitation and way of smutt removal.

@AureliusR

Жыл бұрын

@@rpavlik1 I've worked with ferric chloride quite a few times and never viewed it as particularly dangerous. Take proper safety precautions, and don't drink it, and all should be well. That being said I might try the vinegar method sometime.

Absolute genius, amazed by every project.

Custom solder mask here we gooooo

Nice job Ben! We have used of those services in the past, but now we have a femtosecond laser - your next project? 😂

really fascinating stuff! I'll admit a lot of the finer details went over my head but you did a great job explaining your process.

I’m an engineer and you astound me at what you’re casually able to accomplish in your little shop. It truly blows me away every video

Is that the anova wifi sous vide cooker? I worked on the wifi backend for that thing! Its cool to see them in the wild.

"... the mess is going to be beyond spectacular... Ok lets press the start button!"

Wow! Unbelievably detailed with so many great builds. I'm not going to set up my own sheet metal etching business but if I did, it would all be here. Thanks so much.

Awesome, you addressed all the issues I ran into doing the same thing. Your solutions were much better than mine, and well I'm not surprised. Great work Ben! Thanks for sharing

Time to brew some coffee.

@aninfid

Жыл бұрын

JOINT420

@aninfid

Жыл бұрын

smkwdevdy

Weirdly this is one of my favourite videos from you. I think it's because for the first time you've done something I can actually do in my own shop right now :) But also because it's a process that has many interesting applications. I'm used to doing this for PCBs, never occurred to me to do it on sheet metal. Thanks!

This process reminds me of exposing film to plate for the Printing Industry. Its been 20 years, but I used to work in "Pre Press". You would take the film, place on top of the plate using register pins (register pins are all the same size, for the film and plate). Place the two into a Vacuum table. Hit the switch and it would create a seal between film and plate. Then close this black curtain, and press another button that would start the UV light for a specific time. Once the time expires it all shuts off. Remove the film and place the plate in a solution and the end result was is a positive etched on the plate form the negative film. Love it!!! Anytime I get a notification you've uploaded a new video, Its like Christmas Day LOL... Awesome content again! Thank you!

Always great to see an upload from Ben. Very interesting process 👍

Ben is like a single person A-TEAM that would solve issues for secret projects! I love it when a plan comes together…

the work you do is unbelievable! fascinating as always

Awesome video that breaks down the process and demonstrates some of the quirks of each step.

This was awesome I used to be a tool and die maker at Tech Etch in Plymouth MA where they made these type of parts. I love that you just made them on your own. Brilliant

This video in a nutshell: “So I figured out a method to revolutionize an industrial process, maybe starting a side business out of it, and here’s the complete technique step by step, so you can be my own competitor” We need more of this kind of heroes like him 😀

Your brain is amazing. And your sharing of your works deserving of many respectful thanks.

As a career engineer- your projects and abilities blow my mind lmao. Been following since i was in early college and the quality has been stellar for years it’s crazy

I've got money that you're working with The Thought Emporium. You both do excellent work. Thank you for sharing it!

your vids bring me such happiness, thanks Ben!

Thank you for making the video Ben, they're always fun!

I love this mindset of "this could be improved let's test it out"

It is amazing how you optimize a process that is essentially meant to be done a few times. I mean I do a prototype PCBs every now and then but my process is much more manual an tedious then your one time one. You are amazing. Also It is just a best day to have Applied Science and Ben Eater video in one day! Thank you very much for your work.

So many innovations. Very satisfying.

Dude, you are one of the most formidably brilliant and capable people I've ever encountered. This process alone by any right should make you wealthy. And this is just one thing you did for a random project... I hope you're rewarded for your endeavors.