YES you can brake mid-turn, all depends on HOW you do it :) New merch at teespring.com/stores/fast-eddie-gear

@HemiBurns

4 жыл бұрын

Maury says: “He’s telling the truth.” 😉

@ringsting

3 жыл бұрын

🙌🏼🙌🏼preach🙌🏼🙌🏼

@sherwingp

3 жыл бұрын

💯 yes.

@idolikethisband

Жыл бұрын

Hey @MotoJitsu. I got people saying that a bike does not want to rise up while braking mid turn and that this is a myth..they then reference your videos. You need to emphasize the need of Counter steer input while braking mid turn, because that is drowning a bit here. That goes for some of your other videos as well. If this is used as an advice for inexperienced riders and they miss the part where you need to take control, it can get bad really quick. Please address this!

I am NOT getting cocky. I know I have a long way to go to be a great rider. However, after watching tons of MotoJitsu videos, especially with regard to trail braking, I went riding with a friend recently. This guy has been riding about 10 yrs or so...me, about 2 and a half. We were doing some twisties recently and I was watching this guy braking before the turn...and coasting around the turn with a good amount of wobble..... when he was following me he kept falling behind..... so i asked him if he was trail braking. He said no that he wanted to learn but was waiting to take an advanced course..... (great idea. I'd like to also) My point is that in just a very short time practicing what I've learned from this channel, I am way smoother and more confident in the curves than a guy who's ridden 5x as long as me. What a positive difference you're making out here MJ. Thank you.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

That's so great to hear!! Just think where you'll be by the end of the year if you keep practicing :)

@Daniel-dj7fh

2 жыл бұрын

I thought you were shittalking this man at first lmao

Was scared to try this at first but did anyway and man...this changed my life.

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

Keep at it!!

@gpgp

2 жыл бұрын

Nice

As someone who's taken a one on one lesson from this gentlemen, I'll attest that you can indeed brake (aggressively if needed) mid-corner. He made that abundantly clear. It just requires the proper technique. Keep it smooth... don't snatch it. Practice the technique before you really need it. One of the most informative afternoons I've spent on a bike. Thank you again @motojitsu !!!

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

You're welcome!!!!!!!

THANK YOU. When I was first learning how to ride, everyone and everything said "dont touch the brakes in a turn" and my question was always "well what if I enter the turn a bit too fast?" and the response was always "WELL JUST DON'T DO THAT!" It wasnt until your videos that someone FINALLY gave me info on how to brake in corners that I got an answer to that question.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly!! :)

@plllot9713

3 жыл бұрын

I've always read and heard the same. don't brake in the corner! if you feel like you're not going to make it it's better to add throttle, that will allow you to lean more and clear the corner and I was always like, what the hell are you talking about?! I mainly use my tail braking to overcome the initial snatch when you start applying throttle mid corner and it's just something normal for me. I even recently spoke with my friend about it and expressed my disapproval to this whole "don't brake in the corner" idea because ultimately it's counter productive. people are scared of using their brakes and when it comes to some emergency situation, let's say they enter a corner to fast, they'll just panic and eventually slam on their brake and most probably lose it. I also like to use my rear brake if I enter a corner to fast and want to safely slow down although depending on a bike sometimes your foot may scrape the road if it's a right corner. but anyway, I agree, telling people to avoid braking in corners is just silly.

Short and sweet. Solid information. I’ve been riding many years but still consciously practice braking technics every single time I ride.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

me too!

My middle name is “Trail Braking” after watching all these videos.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

:)

Absolutely agree that breaking mid turn is no problem at all and with the correct technique the bike will not stand up. Although we try and minimise those oh shit moments they can happen. I’ve been on a UK motorcycle control course last week practicing this. The motorcycle is inherently stable (even in a lean) as long as the rider leaves those handlebars alone with the minimal level of death grip on them. We were trained to anchor ourselves on the bike via the footpegs, squeeze our thighs onto the tank and use our core muscles to hold ourselves up off the bars. Obviously still apply direction inputs when needed. If you apply the brakes in a lean but use your anchor points and core muscles to hold yourself off the bars during the deceleration the bike will NOT stand up. The myth of the bike standing up is because during the deceleration in the lean the rider is not using their core muscles to stop all their weight from being transferred onto the bars causing a death grip and upsetting the natural stability of the bike. I do worry that even Total Control book by Lee Parks still continues this myth and out of date advice.

As always man , awesome video! I absolutely adore those compact videos where you sum up everything you have been teaching the last few years ! I started watching your videos 3 years ago , and I have been a completely different rider ever since ! ( I was always considering safety , always smooth with my movement , but back at the day I lacked theoretical knowledge and confidence) . Keep up the good work in order to inspire young riders and make them safer ( and faster ) . Much love and respect fron Greece!

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Awesome, thank you!

As a new Rider here in Australia... Just a thanks for all your vids bro... Have helped me so much in my riding and Attitude on the street... Legend 👍🇦🇺

Your hair is wild! Thanks again for the tips. Love your videos. I remember when you had less than 10K followers. I’m happy for you! Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge to keep riders safe.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

thanks!

I have to say thanks for your videos again, the biggest thing I've ever heard you say is practise practice practice. It's become a habit, anytime I get I go practice. Best motorbike channel on KZread, thank you brother

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

thanks!! Yes, don't just ride, practice!

I Trail break in turns all the time. Especially in unfamiliar turns. I want the extra traction from the tires. I trail brake at the track in every turn also. I agree that noobs shouldn't brake in turns because they don't understand modulation control. Another fantastic video Mr Jitsu! Keep on making 'Em! 👊

These videos are really making a difference in my handling and smoothness as well as confidence in the turns. Thanks a bunch G.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Awesome :)

I was learning this technique when I came across this particular video, I’ve watch a few of your videos I found all of them to be informative & entertaining. Good job mate!

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful! MotoJitsu.com for my new app, books, merch, etc.

Well said - beginner courses often lack in information about the fact that there is so much more into riding

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Not the course, the instructors. They should be explaining to the students "this is the beginner level, there's so much more to learn above and beyond this. Take higher level training when you're comfortable with this information."

This video is awesome explanation! I just had a low side fall from locking the front wheel in a turn and have been scared and wanting to prevent it from happening again. This video explained in great depth!

Every time I think I'v seen your best video, you outdo yourself! I regular apply a small amount of front brake all the way thru a turn if i haven't trailed enough on the way in, safe as houses but like you say, gotta be light and ultra smooooooth..... 🥳⭐👍👍👍👍👍💚🖤

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

:) nice MotoJitsu.com for my new app, books, merch, etc.

My track day was much better with trail braking. You can carry so much more brake than you think. Using the rear did help settle the bike as well and to help tightening my line mid corner a time or two. Great work you’re doing.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear

Love all these short videos!

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks 😊

Great vid brother, dummy proofing it as usual for us visual learners 😄, been practicing the 'fast in, fast out' method while riding (safely as possible of course) and it's so much more confidence inspiring when you know how effective your brakes are without overloading them

@MotoJitsu

2 жыл бұрын

👍🏼👍🏼

Thank you for this excellent explanation. I have encountered many 'expert' riders giving advice on not braking into or in corners where for me that has made a lot of difference for me

I've learned a ton of info from watching these videos. i know a 600 cc is not the best to learn on but its what my pocket could afford 98 Honda CBR 600 F3 for 350.00 bucks. outside of wear and tear carbs and stuff the bike is nice. i haven't hit the road yet with it still getting take off and braking down while practicing on the driveway and parking area on the farm. i'm just glad that you are sharing your knowledge on here and in your books i ordered all 3 and cant wait to read them. thanks

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

thanks.

Coincidence. Just yesterday I took a nice ride along twisty goat trails and got some good safe practice on this very subject. Thanks!

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

awesome!

I used trail breaking all of my first track day in the "slow group" because I had watched your videos and wanted to try it. Just squeezed it real gentle, past the click sound I guess but barely. It improved my curve taking a whole lot and I could go faster into it. But the instructors would not have any of it and when I said I did it they all told me to stop pretty much - the usual "do your breaking and slowing down before the curve, and accelerate out of it" BS (I even explained how it even improves the grip as the tires get planted into the asphalt, but nope). I then watched the faster riders and more advanced and they all had their break lights on until mid corner pretty much so I guess I must be doing something right. Next time I will ask them how and why the faster group is using it. Or even better talk to one of their instructors.. unfortunately its not many slots available in those groups and they are booked up fast so I will be stuck in the beginners group all season. I guess im just going to keep doing what I did because it feels safer then rolling on the throttle especially out on the roads where you might encounter gravel or any other obstacle. Thanks Greg, for improving my riding on a daily basis by just watching your videos and going out to try these things.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah those people have no clue

I'm here because I'm 65 years old, and ONLY drive sport bikes. I have never used my brakes in a turn except for a light pressure. The other day I made a big mistake, I went around a huge sweeping, blind turn, almost a 180-degree turn, one I am familiar with, but halfway through the turn, traffic was at a crawl. I had to panic slow from maybe 80 kph down to 20 kph, when I hit the front brakes, the bike "stood up" right away and Thank God nothing was on the other side of the turn because the bike went right across and into the opposing traffic lane. I now am reading/watching everything I can find on loosing speed in a turn properly. I always through that trail braking meant using your back brake only while going into a turn. I had a life long habit of never using my back brake while driving, even to this day, I only use the back brake to hold me when on a hill at a red light. The problem is, I want to lean but I'm afraid of low siding while leaning...I guess it's baby steps, just try it a little and work my way up. My old sport bike is set up for great braking...Pirelli Super Corsa SP V4's, steel braided brake lines and EBC sintered HH pads on new rotors. I even had the front forks rebuilt with factory seals and factory bushing kit, and I have the rebound and damping adjusted in for my weight and driving style, and I'm running 32 front and 30 back for pressure's on the SuperCorsa's. I'm assuming that with these tires and proper suspension, if I make a bit of a mistake with "over cooking" a corner, my bike's setup will save me ... those tires are the best tires for traction I have ever used. I enjoy leaning my bike as far as it will go, I just enjoy the feeling of being over so far that there's no "chicken strips" on my tires. These SuperCorsa's are the 5th set that I have gone through so far, so I guess I should trust them to learn trail braking with.

That's great stuff man. I think it's also important to emphasize that you can always use the rear breaks smoothly to adjust your speed mid-corner (or entering the corner) without using the fronts. Just like pros do on tracks, it can be useful in the twisties. But what you say I totally agree with, I was always told not to use any brakes mid-corner, but after riding 9 years you get to know that if you can squeeze smoothly and you know your bike, you can literally brake in ANY SITUATION.

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

You can use either brake, as long as you know what you're doing.

Great info, there’s levels to breaking noted.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

sure is :)

You’d be amazed how often I get the weird interaction where I tell them I break in the middle of the turn and they’re like “No! That can’t be! It’s impossible! You shouldn’t do it!”.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

lol yup

@maseratifittipaldi

4 жыл бұрын

If you enter the turn too fast, then you can very easily break in the middle of the turn. Your bike as well !

@katdaddy469

4 жыл бұрын

@@maseratifittipaldi I noticed what you did there 😅

Good stuff Young Man. "Ride to your ability, not beyond".

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

yes!

This video is simple but important. The instructor of my Basic Rider Course told me to never brake in a corner under ANY circumstance, so I spent the entire first month terrified every time I went around a curve, and I avoided downhill curves as much as possible! Wish I would have seen this during that time.

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

They should have said, in this course we're not going to do that because this is the basic, 8th grade level of riding. There's much more to learn above and beyond this, which including braking through and in the turn.

Since quarantine, i discovered your videos like trailbraking, i tried it and now almost 1 year and a half, it changed my life. I'm more comfortable leaning right handle turns. Thanks bro💌

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

awesome!

I dropped my bike 4 times in the past 2 yrs. 2 of them were in a parking lot at about 10 mph while I was practicing to be a brown belt level in motojitsu. In both cases, only the bike fell, but not me.. 😂🤣 Other 2 incidents were during the cornering when I grabbed (but NOT squeezed) my front brake too hard. First one was absolutely my fault because I was trying to practice trail braking, but ended up braking too hard during the corner. Fortunately, the slow speed (20-25 mph?) and the frame slider saved the bike (Nija 300). Second time was when I was making a slow turn getting into the parking lot (15 mph?), I just fell when I was turning. The second time was not entirely my fault (although it still was. 😂) because later I learned that the pavement at the parking lot alley was recently redone and very slippery. Regardless though, I remember grabbing (!) my front brake right before the blink of an eye speed low-side skidding fall. 😞😩The bike cage saved my bike (Ninja 650) this time. In both cases though, I did not get seriously injured other than some minor bruises because I always wear full protective gears (e.g. Helmet, gloves, boots, pants with knee protector, underwear shortie with hip & tail bone protector, & jacket with chest, shoulder, elbow, arm, & back protector. 😋😊) I am so cautious about/during braking these days. However, since I am so much more aware and cautious, riding a bike seems somehow even more fun and thrilling. Does it make sense? 🥰😋

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Sure does...keep at it!

I've been back riding for about 3 years now, after having take off the last 20. I'll try not to bore anyone as this story may be a little long winded. Anyway, funny part is , the wife made me stop all those years ago when our first child was born, promising when all the kids where grown up, she would let me ride again. Well, a few Christmas eve's ago, I found a beautiful riding jacket under the tree, with a note referring to that promise made all those years ago. Long story short, if not for Motojitsu, (true story, because all the "lessons" available around my area, in Canada anyway, are terrible), I would have been dead the first year by an oncoming Semi, (who was in my lane passing around a blind corner), if I had not religiously paid attention to his lessons and practicing constantly on my big, heavy bike. I just wanted to say Thank you! From a very still alive husband and Father.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome!!!

you explain things so well I didn't think I could learn things without a hands on trainer but you're great

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks :)MotoJitsu.com for my new app, books, merchandise, affiliate links, etc. Thanks for watching & check out my other videos, over 300 to go through :)

I'm glad where I live that even the handbook sold by my our regional DMV teaches you to emergency brake midturn which is to slowly apply the brakes while leaned over and gradually increase the pressure while leaning the bike upright. Or just put the bike upright as soon as you can and brake as you normally would in a straight line. Not bad for beginner introduction to riding. :)

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

In the beginner course (Total Control's Beginner Riding Clinic in CA and other states) we teach the same things.

@thaik56

4 жыл бұрын

@@MotoJitsu I can't say the same for the practical course as the schools aren't created equal here in the province of Quebec in Canada. At least it's mentioned in theory so it's common knowledge which is a good start.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Hearing something is the start yes, won't make much sense until practiced over and over

This is great stuff, thanks 👍🏻

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

welcome! Consider sharing the video with others!! Check out MotoJitsu.com for my new app, books, merch, affiliate links, etc.

He's so right about this. I was told in school don't apply the front brakes without straightening the front tire, otherwise u dump the bike. 1st week in the outside world after school, had a situation where I approached a merge-in intersection taking a very sharp corner into the lane. Cars were moving so slowly and i had a bit of anxiety. I remembered Survival Reactions in TwistoftheWrist2 book and I gently applied my rear brakes while countersteering, straightened the bike, and began filtering out of the traffic. Since then, I've been using my rear brakes lightly in similar situations before I straightened the bike and squeeze the front brakes.As a rookie, i know I don't have the skills yet to apply the front brakes lightly which is why I don't want to learn trailbraking and I have to ride within my limit to avoid complicated situations

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

That’s grossly incorrect...all depends on HOW you use the brake :)

Man, you've taught me how to ride so much better. I just used this technique actually prior to watching this video yesterday (merging onto an on-ramp with a little too much lean and speed) and gently applied the front brakes and kept squeezing harder as the bike started to lean upright...perfect merge resulted in the end. If you hadn't taught me how to lean properly it would've probably be a different outcome. Also, dont speed guys...dont be like me hehe

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it!

A perfect advertisement for continuing education.....thanks for sharing. Semper FI

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

If I close my eyes, it’s George Clooney teaching motorcycle school. Valuable info my guy.

Makes me want to go out and practice. 👍🏻

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

gooooooooo

I've done both in a corner. Grabbed a handfull of front brake as a new rider and gentle brake as an experienced rider. This is 100% true. Much easier to maintain lean angle with gentle progressive brakes. Even on big sport bikes like the zx14 I ride now to the little Honda cm400 I learned on.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Shouldn't grab the brake, ever. Squeeeezzzeee is the idea.

@lovepcgaming2335

4 жыл бұрын

@@MotoJitsu yes sir. I learned that the hard way. I've never gone to a school and didn't have a teacher. My dad who has never ridden bought me my first bike. I got on it and got my license and put miles down. I average 100+ miles a week. I pretty much learned everything by trial and error lol. 12 years ago I didn't watch KZread to learn either. Someday I'll goto a track day beginner's learning course but till then I'll continue commuting and playing around with my zx14.

Kudos Pal 👍✌ you are so on it on this Issue. You are a gifted Instructor and guess what you made it so clear & easy for me to understand this material 👌 thank you kindly. Do you have a School or somewhere where i can learn ?! I am a new Rider who made a mistake of getting a brand new CB1000-R as my first bike last year. I need a motorcycle endorsement

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

thanks :) MotoJitsu.com/courses

This might sound silly but here it goes: Completely new rider but i've been riding a bicycle for a few years doing about 15 km almost daily and after watching your videos i noticed that i've been doing trailbraking on my bicycle without even realising it. My regular route goes through a very populated park with 0 visibility turns and i caught myself slightly applying pressure on the front brake during a blind turn until i could see the exit (just like you described). If ever a person or a pet jumps in front of me i can much safely increase the brake pressure rather than going from 0% to 100% and compressing the front forks helps with quickly avoiding an obstacle in case braking is not enough (like an oncoming bicyclist).

@Woahbo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah same, if your really good with bicycles then you have somewhat an understanding with motorcycles, you still have to go out and practice and take precautions tho. It’s people who never ever rode a bicycle or motorcycle in their life that will have a harder time understanding and learning gap on how to actually ride. Just got my mini street legal motercycle and I’m exited to ride and practice today. Last time I rode a engine operated bike was my mini not street legal motercycle and the moped scooter I used to have

Haha I did it in msf course and got dinged, but felt natural to me, and I learned it from your videos :)

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

👍🏼👍🏼😊😊

Thank you sir

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

you're welcome!

Wow - I did not know you doubled as a lead guitarist for a metallica cover band!

Nice lullaby videos!

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

:)

New rider loving your advice on riding skills ✌️

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard!

@craigjohnson6597

4 жыл бұрын

@@MotoJitsu thanks mate and hello from down under 👍🏼

Reminds me of my beginner class, the CBT here in the UK. We were on the 2 hour mandatory ride on public roads, on a 60mph stretch of roads, and the instructor says over the radio, "From here back to the training centre is pretty much 60 the whole way, only a couple of places we need to slow down, I'll tell you when". Well I guess the radios stopped working from almost that point as there was no more communication until we got back to the centre. And there were a couple of sketchy corners that I went into at 60 and quickly had to figure out how to keep a bike on the correct side of the road 😅😅😅

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

So crazy...beginners out on the public roads, going that fast with beginner riders, talking to them...all of that is insane to me and I would never do it.

@razu1976

4 жыл бұрын

@@MotoJitsu That's literally the standard mandatory day of training in the UK. Spend the morning riding around cones, then you're out there riding in the traffic in the afternoon. All of this is on a 125cc bike.

its funny coming from driving older Porsche's and the dreaded "lift off over steer" scenario this is a perfectly logical practice that should be taught to beginners as it will say with you for ever

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

motorcycles are so different and trail braking is an easy concept but difficult to master.

It's weird to see Fast Eddy with long hair in the older videos. But wow, did I need to watch this video.

Nice bro

@MotoJitsu

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching & commenting! ❤️MotoJitsu.com for my App, Books, Merch, Discounts, etc. 👍🏼

the hair is looking nice bro

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

thanks

im a beginner rider and i've used the brakes mid turn with no problems or second thought. just found it necessary at the time and used them lol. not jammed on them but just enough to slow me down enough if i went into a turn too fast

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

yes!

Like many have said, in all different aspects of life. There are levels to this!

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

thanks!

Same thing repeated 10 times.. beginner beginner... Got it man

Thanks for every thing. I wonder if you can make some online courses may be grade 1 up to .... That will be so helpfull.... If so i will be glad to pay.... Thanks again

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

you're welcome!

I brake hard reducing the lean angle to prevent front tire slip (low side crash), then release 50% of the brakes and lean all I can... is this OK? Thanks!

Agree 👍

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

:)

I've already fell twice only by the same reason i.e. spamming the front brake hard on a turn. what to do when something appears (maybe an animal) while you're turning ? i panicked both the times.

I applied breaks during a turn the other day, exploded. Good thing I have full coverage!

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Hahaha

What is your comments using rear brake on turns.

I remember when I did my CBT (in the UK). The instructor straight up said using the rear brake during turns is fine if we feel the need to do so. But every instructor is different

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

all depends on the pace, the corner, what the rider is able to do, what you feel like doing, the circumstances, etc. you can use either brake in a turn all depends on how

Its funny how lots of experienced drivers and riders dont understand how important it is to be smooth with the controls as the smoother you are the fast you can go because your more relaxed and taking in more info and using that info to get better exit out of a corner or watching the lights change and ready to go or noticing the idiot on the motorway/highway and adjusting for it. Here in uk trucks have a speed limit of 60mph on motorways, speed limiters should be set to 57mph usually, some are 55mph. But the amount of folk in fast cars that are at 70 or 80mph and roll up behind a truck, slow down for it then move to outside lane and speed back up is silly. Where as if im on inside lane getting passed, il slow to 65mph to let the gap in outside lane appear then go back up to what speed i was doing, smooth and flowing and it saves fuel too. Which us another thing of being smooth, fast and save some fuel vs the aggressive drivers and riders lol

Amen to that brother peace be with you ➕

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

thanks

I've only been riding for a year and I naturally used my breaks mid turn. I was told I should never use my braks mid turn but I ignored them lol

As it is (seemingly) with all motorcycles techniques, slow and smooth seems to be the answer.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

sure does help big time

See for yourself, indeed. 🙏🏻

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

yup

Hello , I can see you have sliders attached to touring trousers on some of the old videos. Do you remember the brand ? All I can see in the shops is sliders with velcro designed for track day trousers with velcro, mine dont have it :/

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

leeparksdesign.com

For a break down of forces and torques when breaking in a corner I suggest consulting a paper by Vittore Cossalter (the author of "Motorcycle Dynamics") et al. called "Motorcycle Steering Torque Decomposition" (just google it, it is online). The relevant discussion is in the last section of the paper. Their elaborate model (checked empirically with measurements of the actual forces) shows that the motorcycle will want to stand up due to the breaking force at the front wheel exercising a torque at the contact patch and around an axis coinciding with the forks vertical center line, that effectively counter steers the vehicle (because the contact patch is on the inside of the curve as the bike is leaning, this torque pushes at the patch backwards and (counter) steers further inside). There are more torques involved, of course, but they mostly cancel out. The strength of the effect depends mostly on lateral acceleration (which depends on lean angle) and also on speed (consult the last figure in the paper) and tire shape + size. As Fast Eddie explains, it is up to the rider to allow the motorcycle to stand up or not (if the force is strong enough to be of practical effect, that is). Depending on the reason for braking, you may or may not want to streighten the bike.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

now go practice to feel it for yourself

The best riders are riders who use brakes more. Too much muck around brakes and everyone these days with a camera makes tons of videos, but clearing it takes a good amount of practical experience. SQEEEEZE Good one!

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

:) thanks

Low gear light throttle light front brake pressure

Braking average or hard in corners with furhter leaning the bike to prevent it going straight will lose traction and slide. This is what happened to me once.

So when you are trail braking are you supposed to completely let off the throttle or do you maintain the throttle or let off a little and apply the brakes at the same time? Confused as to whether or not to keep on the throttle as trail braking.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

I have numerous recent videos that go way more in depth about braking.

Great explanation,

I did the front tyre brake med turn i was being brake-checked by a smart guy ahead of me, and I wouldn't recommend it 😅😅. I will try back next time 😂

Sir i’m just curious if we can use the rear brake at the middle of the turn while leaning? I know we can use the front and thats called trail braking now i’m just curious if we can do it in the rear? Sorry i’m 16 yrs old i’m just curious 😅

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

yes. same thing no matter what brake.

Hey MJ -I have a question -i don't know if its been covered before -sorry . A friend of mine's son had a bad motorbike accident here in the UK last week -resulting in his breaking his back and his girlfriend narrowly missing decapitation by barbed wire. They were going around a country bend (which in the UK are narrow and tight bends)when as they were leaning into the corner they hit loose gravel and the bike went from under them. My question is do you have any advice as to how to avoid an accident in that scenario ? -Many thanks

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

don't hit it in the first place...if you're about to, reduce the lean angle of the bike as much as you can beforehand.

The only thing I don't understand yet, is: why, if I smoothly apply more and more brake pressure, can I not increase my lean angle at the same time? But breaking like that, while keeping the same angle is fine... I don't get it

Ive been encountering a situation when emergency braking in a turn, where I do what I normally do, gradually apply front brake so as to avoid a low side, but what ends up happening, is my rear tire gets light and I end up effectively backing the bike in and running wide. The rear tire slides out, I counter with steering and body position, same as I would, and end up sliding the bike around the corner. And as fun as that is, thats not what I want when I realize the corner im at is not the one I thought it was and I need to slow down to avoid a sudden tightening. So far it hasnt gotten me in trouble, I've never panicked or been close to loosing the bike. but I want to know, why is that happening?

@EllaBananas

2 жыл бұрын

My best guess, is I'm applying too much brake, and shifting my weight to the front, and lightening the rear causing it to loose grip. Or that when I'm getting off the throttle and onto the brakes, the engine braking combined with the lightened front is allowing the rear to rotate more slowly than the front. As a note, my bike has abs front and rear as well as tilt abs to prevent rear wheel lift. Though I only felt the rear activate.

I think it's important to mention that you can only brake so much you have in reserve from lateral acceleration (friction circle)

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

that means nothing unless you go practice and see for yourself

@dirkprivat5106

4 жыл бұрын

@@MotoJitsu i think you have to know about the theory to have a reference system for practicing. In this case: the more lean, the less braking is possible. Full lean angle: no braking possible. If one does not know this, but tries to practice braking in full lean, he may learn a lot but also need a new bike

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

No one I know is leaning 100% leaving 0% left over to brake/accelerate besides professional racers and none of them are watching my videos.

Not only is it ok, but some times necessary. Some Colorado mountain drivers brake mid turn every turn in their car. You need to be ready to respond to one of them being in front of you.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

#Supernecessary

one of the reasons new bikers understeer in this situation is not having counter steering skills. as a new rider you may find yourself coming into a turn too fast and the natural reaction for a new rider is not only to use too much break force but to attempt to steer harder into the turn which makes the bike stand stand up and the riders underwear to turn brown.

This guys looks so different from his 1st vids lol.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

22 months of growing my hair

I always tot it will lose grip and low side. Well gonna try it gently see how it goes.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

whoever said that doesn't know what they're talking about or they only have an 8th grade education in riding

HI! one week ago, exactly, I took a low side crash in urban city riding while taking an upsweep right corner at like 15MPH to merge into a main road. Wearing full fear and bike had protection so I walked just fine and bike has minimal cosmetic damage I was at steady throttle going uphill, no brakes, 6 inches in, head turned and I just rolled through a bit of oil that I coundn't see because was covered with water as it has just finished rainning and I was just trying to get home after work. Question: Is there anything I could've done to save it... Technique wise? the car infront of me actually crashed into bushes as it lost control but I never the car crash that because I was already looking to the exit of the turn to the main road. I only realized about the car's crash when I saw that my bike ended almost under the car ... few inches before the car's trunk.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Avoid puddles of water...have less lean angle when going through slippery conditions, ensure your tires are properly inflated and with good tread, etc.

@bonzsk

4 жыл бұрын

MotoJitsu® thank you! This channel has been a night and day change for me. Doing the drilll from your first book (bought it from amazon) was a game changer and kept me safe for 2 years riding .... until my mistake last Monday and walked away completely unharmed thanks to the conscience created in this videos

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

you're welcome

Question.. i am slowing to make a turn, feel confident in speed and turn.. while in middle of turn i realize i am going about 7mph too fast, can I gently squeeze the front brake to get to a more reasonable speed? I ask this because i think i did this recently without thinking and it worked.. afterward i thought i was told this was impossible and doubted whether i did it or not…

@MotoJitsu

2 жыл бұрын

Yes roll off the gas and if you need to slow down more, use the brakes

@glide_nyc8747

2 жыл бұрын

@@MotoJitsu thank you for your speedy reply! Subscribed!!!

@MotoJitsu

2 жыл бұрын

❤️❤️👍🏼👍🏼

so, before i start trying this, what DOES the bike want to do when you break mid-turn, you say it doesnt want to stand up, doesnt it want to fall? or does nothing happen? I've always imagined, if you have a 2 wheeled vehicle and you lean into a turn, not accounting for any other variables: no suspension, no weird CG, just a frame on wheels breaking in mid-turn, itl want to lean more. I can understand how if you add suspension into this, the suspension will compress and your CG will change which can lift the bike up, and once youre up the suspension will decompress, but initially, does the bike drop down more? or does nothing happen.

@46rrodriguez

9 ай бұрын

why are you interested in the theory. Find some quiet place and try it on your bike in slow speeds with warm tyres and only gently squeeze the front brake. When you get confident you can add a bit rear one but it isnt necessary. Then you will understand whats happening while braking in the corner

@DaBurntToaster

8 ай бұрын

@@46rrodriguez or you could say "if you slow down too quickly the momentum wants to keep going forward so you flip over, but if you slow down slowly you lose centrifugal force and you start to lean down more." I already got my answer elsewhere, its nice to know what to expect before you do something.

@46rrodriguez

8 ай бұрын

@@DaBurntToaster this biker will give even more insight. Absolutely agree that breaking mid turn is no problem at all and with the correct technique the bike will not stand up. Although we try and minimise those oh shit moments they can happen. I’ve been on a UK motorcycle control course last week practicing this. The motorcycle is inherently stable (even in a lean) as long as the rider leaves those handlebars alone with the minimal level of death grip on them. We were trained to anchor ourselves on the bike via the footpegs, squeeze our thighs onto the tank and use our core muscles to hold ourselves up off the bars. Obviously still apply direction inputs when needed. If you apply the brakes in a lean but use your anchor points and core muscles to hold yourself off the bars during the deceleration the bike will NOT stand up. The myth of the bike standing up is because during the deceleration in the lean the rider is not using their core muscles to stop all their weight from being transferred onto the bars causing a death grip and upsetting the natural stability of the bike. But you should try it for yourself one day it can save you from the crash. Ride safe

@46rrodriguez

8 ай бұрын

@@DaBurntToaster also if will try to slow down too quickly your front tyre might loose the grip. You have to use the front brake progressively listen to the feedback from bike and adjust your actions to it

Are you still hosting parking lot trainings on weekends here in SD?

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

Not in a long time, busy/Covid, etc

@PhaedruS007

4 жыл бұрын

MotoJitsu® Are you doing private lessons as mentioned in another comment?

I ride a V-twin, and if I close the throttle to reach the brake, I lose so much speed there's nothing further for the brake to do. Are you supposed to be able to roll the throttle at the same time as squeeze the brake? I can't visualise it. Give me three hands.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

All depends on your pace..and practice rolling off the throttle from 20% to 19, then 18, then 17..instead of going from 20% to 0...maybe rolling off the gas only will slow you down enough for the upcoming corner, but at a faster pace it won't

I just feather the rear brake if I get in a little hot and all is fine.

@MotoJitsu

28 күн бұрын

master the front first instagram.com/motojitsuclub/

@firestarter8202

28 күн бұрын

@@MotoJitsu thank you. I love my front brake and I include it on every single stop. My instincts are trained to always go to both brakes so in an emergency I’ll do it by default. I use both brakes right up to the last 10 feet where I come to a final stop with the rear brake only. Never could quite get the hang of the trail breaking thing on the front brake while simultaneously manipulating the throttle is a little rough for me. I tend to keep the same speed in turns and I keep my tired 70 year-old body relatively safe but I find if I’m in a little hot I just feather the rear breaking scrubs off 3 miles an hour or so, and all is fine. not ideal. I understand it’s not ideal but it works for me. I do have value for loading up the front tire for more traction in tighter turns. But hey man, you’re the boss. Thanks for all the good videos.

motojesus

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

:)

Is it normal that i feel more comfortable in left hand turns than right hand turns?

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

yup

If you're going wide in a corner it's probably safer and quicker to just roll off the throttle and lean more than to get on the brakes.

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

that's the only option for many people because they don't know how to use the brakes in a turn, if you did, you'll rely on those first.

Down shift or upshift in the turn?

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

no

Is it ok to lower a gear on the turn

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

do you ride?

@bhupendradhamankar6604

4 жыл бұрын

Yes I do ride. Infact while turning on a bend my bike skidded and I had a fall. I guess I applied rear brake on the turn. Hence checking if I can lower the gear for engine braking and that reduces the speed at which I enter the turn.

@pmdinaz

4 жыл бұрын

@@bhupendradhamankar6604 You just have to plan ahea

So this is what Gilfoyle is up to post Pied Piper

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

what?

@nasheedmoiz

4 жыл бұрын

@@MotoJitsu You resemble this character from the HBO tv show Silicon Valley :) Thanks for these majorly helpful videos

@MotoJitsu

4 жыл бұрын

ah

Best part 3:20

@MotoJitsu

3 жыл бұрын

that so?