Many thanks for this reminder that recharging a battery is less like filling a tank with liquid and more like winding a spring. As BEV owners learn this crucial facts, it will help hasten the adoption of these vehicles.

Went from Preston to Hounds Hill Blackpool this morning. Set off with 23% arrived with 11% Charged to 61% on their free to use 22kW AC bp units. Was shopping for 1:35 minutes and gained 31kWh for the total cost of £2.70 car park fee. ❤ Why can’t life be this simple?😂 I’ll post pictures on your X account. 👍

The main reason to charge to 100% is either a long journey next day, or to initiate cell balancing on some vehicles - this is perfectly fine and will not meaningfully damage the battery, just don't leave it at high or low charge states for extended periods. My MG ZS recommends to charge to 100% every couple of months to cell balance, some other cars will cell balance at lower states. I usually charge to 80%, twice a week , whilst shopping/eating/drinking , or as needed. Leaving my EV's (ZS & Leaf 30) whilst on holiday I have had a very small charge drop of 3-5% over 4-6 weeks, as they have less electronic loads than a Tesla. On a road trip I stop every 1.5-2 hours for a break, stretch and refreshment. This usually takes 15-20 minutes, and I charge for that time, usually leaving with 80-85% or whatever it happens to be 👍. Charge whilst stopped to do something, don't stop to charge and sit there.

Good advice as always Dave. Just two points: 1) it's OK to charge an NMC up to 100% from time to time if the extra range is useful for a long road trip, just don't do it routinely and 2) the reason why plugging in when at home is useful is because then the battery doesn't need to do any work at all so you save a few charge/recharge cycles - ie it can be plugged in but not charging or discharging, just sitting there happily. That said, I like to charge (my Tesla LFP) to 100% and not leave my car plugged in because then I can pick when I charge, and selectively choose the cheapest/greenest times on Octopus Agile, I would only charge partially if I needed some range and there wasn't a cheap/free electricity period (which usually happen every couple of weeks or so). For me as someone who mainly uses the car at weekends, this benefit of optimising electricity costs outweighs any minor improvements to battery health.

I charge when I need to and I don't when I don't. Its a car to be used as needed, not a delicate ornament to be mollycoddled. The car's battery management system can manage the battery, I don't need to worry about it.

Hi Dave, greetings from Oxford. I went EV in 2019 with a BMW i3. I remember the anxiety of ‘doing the right thing’ with charging. Nearly 5 years later and still with the same car, I am now much more relaxed about it. I usually charge up once the gauge is reporting around 1/4 (25%) charge when I get home, my home charger is set to charge to 90%, so next day I have plenty of charge again and will have charged at a max rate of 7kW, the chargers max output. This is not much different from an ICE car, I used to fill up at about 1/4 of a tank. Running an ICE car low on fuel (particularly older ones) risks sucking up crud in the tank into the fuel filter and pump.

I charge my E-Niro in my garage on Octopus 'Go' tariff, where 4 hrs in middle of night is at around 9p/kW. Thus, charging regularly back up to 90% from around 140 mile range to around 240 miles (depending on ambient temperature) keeps things happy (especially bank balance. If I do a long trip I top it to 100%. Just had 60k service with no battery issues.

Thanks Dave, a very interesting and informative video. That's what I call using common sense.

Hi Dave. I am with you with not always fully charging LFP batteries after reading a report that indicated that their was degradation at 100% charge but less damage than that of NMC batteries as the charged cell voltage of the LFP battery is lower than the NMC cell. The issue with LFP batteries is that they have a very flat cell voltage discharge curve that makes it difficult for the BMS to access state of charge and cell ballance, NMC cells have quite a steep voltage discharge curve making it easier for the BMS. I think their is a blip in the LFP charge curve when reaching the 100% charge point that the BMS uses to calibrate itself (I might be wrong on this last point). My conclusion, only charge to 100% once a month just before use or when doing a big trip.

20-80 is the easiest thing in the world to remember - try not to (regularly) go below 20%, try not to (regularly) go above 80%.

The only thing I don’t really understand, is why the majority of EV’s don’t have the ability to restrict charge levels if charging to 100% were such an issue? After all, the manufacturers are the ones who warranty the battery for many years and would be liable to foot the bill for a replacement.

@moragkerr9577

4 ай бұрын

The MG4 is interesting. Most of the models have NMC batteries and the app has the capability to restrict these to 80% charge. Up to 80% is labelled "battery health mode" and 80-100% is labelled "long trip mode". At first the app also worked the same way with the single LFP model (the SE SR). But then MG, who are not known for their refined software or doing anything they don't really have to, REMOVED THAT CAPABILITY FROM THE APP for cars with the LFP. The damn thing still has the "battery health mode" and "long trip mode" labels on it, and they're also there on the infotainment screen, I mean MG aren't going to bother with little niceties like removing this redundant wording, but they did take the positive step of preventing LFP battery owners from stopping the charge before 100%. I wonder why, if Dave is correct? On the other hand, I think Euan McTurk maybe knows a thing or two. /watch?v=HSsNB0JC1Ig He is an actual battery chemistry expert, and he says that the battery degradation that happens at over 80% in the NMC doesn't happen at all in the LFP. He says do what the hell you like with your LFP battery, it seriously is not going to care. Let the LFP battery go to 100% on AC and sit there long enough to balance about once a week, and maybe once every 3-6 months run it right down under 10% and let it have a single long charge to 100% and balance. Apart from that do what you like. The only issue with plugging the car in every time you get home and letting it go to 100% is that every time you drive off you won't have regenerative braking for the first few miles.

I have a 2015 PHEV with a 12kWh battery, plug in every day, always charge to 100% and often run below 20%. No issues and battery health is 82%.

Another factor, my MG4 with LFP is far more consistent to drive when below 85% since at high states of charge single pedal and other higher regenerative settings are disabled or reduced. Plus for most driving 85% fits my needs. I cannot install a home charger so use 3pin as well as workplace for top ups, then rapids for longer trips, again only charging enough to get home. Compared to filling up fully when I drove my diesel, since price volatility was painful. Electricity prices being so much more stable is a huge benefit in my experience.

Could someone please help me by explaining how someone can hate EVs when in essence it's a form of transport, it is an object. I don't see people despising a certain make of chocolate and posting everywhere how much they hate it. Thanks Dave for another good vid.

@ouethojlkjn

4 ай бұрын

I am going to guess it is because hate is a feeling and not a fact? I cycle for exercise, and I get loads of abuse from drivers because I have the bare faced cheek and effrontery to slow them down for three seconds. I hate HS2 wagons so I’m just as bad.

I would say the ideal range is between 50 and 75% charge. Some EVs will cut down power below a certain percentage especially if the battery is cold. Some EVs may not charge the 12v battery if it’s kept below 50%. Some BMS do need a below 10% to 100% including equalisation charge every three to six months. The BMS is not perfect (even Tesla’s) and the below 10% to 100% slow charge will allow recalibration and avoid sudden drops in SoC reported. Never charging to 100% therefore can in some cases cause issues.

At home I leave the car, 62Kw LEAF, to manage the charging, it closes down the charging to a trickle as it nears 100%. I use the car nearly everyday for moderate journeys, but often with no advance planning hence 100% range is needed. On longer journeys I know that I need a break before the car, so top up charging works well. Last summers trip around Scotland . all on public chargers, was by Top Ups during 'breaks' in the journey. (In some places it was easier to spot a Charge Point than a petrol station!) I recently did a check run in my older LEAF, 2.Zero. on a route I use frequently A t 90000 miles it still seems to have the original useable range. It is certainly nowhere near the need to make a claim under the battery warranty,

Great video

LFP = it doesn't hurt to charge (on AC) to 100% every time but you don't have to, and with the MG4 it is recommended to charge (on AC) to 100% and allow balancing to complete at least weekly. With both LFP and NMC packs in the MG4 it is recommended (every 6 months) to drain to

The e-Tron 55 quattro can do ~140kW charging up to 80% and still going at ~80kW by 95%. If I had to get an EV, I'd want it to charge this consistently fast across the entire battery capacity instead of having a top 20-30% of the battery that is basically unusable during road trips due to how much slower charging gets beyond 70-80% on so many current-day EVs, especially more budget-minded models.

Compelling truths ..thanks Dave

Cheers Dave

I promise, my Tesla manual states with bold lettering: KEEP THE CAR ALWAYS CONNECTED. And it states that it is better with small and frequent charging than few with bigger deltas. So I trust my Tesla forum and Tesla manual more than some YT. I keep the charging limit to 60% during summer and 70 during winter.

@davetakesiton

4 ай бұрын

Tough driving if it’s always connected, maybe you should keep reading, there’s something missing?

@djtaylorutube

4 ай бұрын

Same here, plus it's plugged in and ready to precondition from mains if appropriate.

@Harrythehun

4 ай бұрын

@@davetakesiton I appreciate that your channel is educating people, but sometimes you got it slightly backwards according to me. But we are all living and learning, soo keep up the good work!!

Well explained. Understanding the type of battery you have and uunderstanding how long different charges take. Even if you can charge to 100% it isn't the best to do on a stop during a journey as the last 20% would pretty much double your charging time. Also, there is no need to keep topping upevery day, as long as you have enough range for the following days journey to arrive home with no less than the 10-20% I generally charge to 80% and do not drop below 20% but if doing a long trip, I could charge to 100% as long as I am not leaving it at 100% and using it that day. This happens very rarely and helps to avoid needing to use the high priced rapid chargers for a return journey. Certain friends have a communal parking area and are about 2 h 45 m away so unable to charge there. I often still need a 10-15 minute top up at a 50kWh that I often do whilst doing a bit of food shopping. This would be a lot more if not getting 100% at home. I left my Kia E Niro at the airport for just over 2 weeks and lost no range. I suspect the Tesla may use more for the sensors and cameras that keep running. LFP says it has less effects from charging to 100%, not no effects. So LFP batteries are more flexible for those times you do need to do a long road trip and may make it without needing a stop, if your bladder, stomach etc can last!

My understanding is that for a NMC battery it is OK to fully charge just before starting a long journey but you should avoid having the car sat at 100% where possible. Although my Kia manual does not state it I also believe charging to 100% occasionally is required to rebalance the battery and get the range estimates more accurate. In the 7 months I've owned the car I have charged to 100% three times immediately before a road trip, other times I charge to 70%.

@danuk2005

4 ай бұрын

What you say is correct.

I you only charge to just enough what happens if you have to backtrack, here in Australia because.of floods or bushfire the because of a major accident which happened to me last time i was in GB

Thought: if you set your charge level to 80% at a Tesla, surely you might get fined for the non-charging time?

My Enyaq 60 is a work car. It gets charged to 80% every night as I do anywhere from 40 - 75 miles a day. Never the same mileage twice. Normally has 35 - 50% left daily. Cannot take the chance to run it for 2 days for the chance of having to go to a public charger. Overnight charge at home.

My First Long Journey In The MG4 Trophy Long Range - EV Public Charging Attempt Mac Motors

I leave my DC charge limit at 100% not because I expect it to get to 100% but I don't want it to reach 80%, stop charging, and risk an overstay penalty (which is, in reality, a bit of a Tesla thing).

My Mini has no way to automatically stop the charge at 80% SOC or any other SOC, owner’s handbook says charge it’s ok to charge the battery to the indicated 100%. 100% is actually 95% due to the top buffer.

@glennjgroves

4 ай бұрын

I cannot automatically stop my LEAF at less than 100% either. I let the battery get down to anywhere between 20% to 40% then charge back to 100%. I only go below 20% when doing a longer trip where I need the extra range. 202,000 kms on the car and battery now. LEAFSpy is telling me 82.9% state of health. I am at least the third owner, I don’t know what previous owners did. Most charging is AC, 15 amp, 3.6 kW. I am happy. Edited - I don’t know what 100% on the dash actually means on the battery itself, so to speak. It may be less than 100%.

@peteglass3496

4 ай бұрын

Same with the i3 which shares a lot of the tech with the Mini.

As i live alone with solar and powerwall i never went on the night rate as i dont do many miles only when the sun is out and some from the grid

@Brian-om2hh

4 ай бұрын

But you could charge your Powerwall up on cheap rate electricity, then use that electricity during the day, saving yourself a good bit of money.....

@rodden1953

4 ай бұрын

@@Brian-om2hh i only use the grid to part charge the car most of the time im off grid and i still had a gas boiler .if im going away i can drain the powerwall into the car . this is my 4th winter and i still think im better off not using the night rate i use about 20% of battery a night

9:04 caption says charge to 100% once a month. cell balancing is likely involved in this.

@dougowt

4 ай бұрын

Interestingly, I was chatting to Dr Euan McTurk last year and he said he prefers to run the battery low to cell balance. A part of why I remember this, is that it reminded me of a few years ago I'd just bought another secondhand Renault Zoe and previous Zoes I'd been able to run 12+ miles beyond a displayed 0% battery charge. But on this occasion, I'd had the car a week or so and gone to Totnes to meet friends and plug in. When I got to Totnes the chargers were offline. So I drove back to Paignton about 5 or 6 miles with 9 miles of range showing. However the range dropped like a stone and the car went into turtle mode (I'd never had this before, just a reduced power mode that was fine for normal traffic speeds and hills). But this time the car was barely moving, 15mph and slower on inclines. It eventually stopped about 250m from the charger and some kind souls gave me a push. The point of all this waffle, is that after that, the range went up and the battery was more predictable at the lower states of charge after this event. I also noticed that my Model S had a better range after the first time I ran it below 10%. I think that if you can an occasional charge to 100% on an AC outlet and just left plugged in will help balance the cells. And its safer than trying to run the battery very low, unless you sit next to a charger with the heater on full blast 🙃👍 Sorry didn't mean to write a novel!!

@stunimbus1543

4 ай бұрын

@@dougowt I suspect the manufacturers don't like to talk about battery care generally, as people will jump on it as another problem with EV ownership. But this little video from a former RIM engineer makes the point quite nicely (even if it does relate to power tool batteries) kzread.info/dash/bejne/jH58rdGoYtbOcqQ.htmlsi=Fok-xikJhgYw27l3

Hi Dave this was good except if you lease the car the battery longevity is less important unless you are totally stupid.my dealer on motability said don't worry and charge to 100% at home I don't as I watch you! only on long journeys do I charge to 100%. Some destinations are no good arriving at low charge as no chargers about or parked nearby for granny charging.

Isn't this disastrous for used EV sales? How do we know what the previous owner has done with the battery?

@JamesEdwards860

4 ай бұрын

Good point but with an ICE car I suppose you don’t really know how the engine has been treated!

Honestly Dave, I love you dearly, but when it comes to the care and feeding of my LFP battery I'm going to stick with Euan McTurk's advice.

@davetakesiton

4 ай бұрын

I only give advice, never orders. You are free to follow who you prefer

Your charging habit works fine for a car that can go quite far, but for many you have no option but to wait. My EV can probably do around 100 miles in summer if I stay between 80 and 15%. And charging at 40kW peak means I have to wait. If I were to charge for 10 minutes I might not get to the next charger.

How do people who own mobile phones, not have the slightest clue about simple charging? If you really can not read a handbook, use Google OR not ask the Dealership what is recommended.... then maybe a driving licence is too much of a responsibility for you!

The fact that the "average person" only needs to charge once per week... Is something that has been said thousands of times. How can anyone think of topping up every single day?

@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck

4 ай бұрын

My revivifier says, “topping off EVery day works well with Scotch!”

@WheelieTheCapper

4 ай бұрын

Simple really. I charge every day for between 2 and 4 hours. If you only have a limited 'cheap' charge window in the small hours, it makes no economic sense not to use it daily. If I was to limit my charging to a charge every few days, I would be charging partially on peak rate and that makes an EV uneconomical (my tariff is an EV one ... Two rates only).

@mikadavies660

4 ай бұрын

@@WheelieTheCapper Nothing wrong with using your brain and getting the BEST out of your OFF-PEAK rates. I think that the issues appear to be that many don't understand or have a brain to use!

My Mokka e is lithium ion I think?!

For no real reason just randomly compared prices between France and UK using Chargemap app. A 300kw charger at Avignon, near me, costs 0.64€. A 150kw charger at Rayleigh in Essex costs 1.09€. Why?

Hello mate

Why do Teslas lose charge when parked for long periods. Left my P2 at Gatwick for 3 weeks while away and didn't even lose 1%. Surprised by Teslas vampire drain. Is this to do with the sentry mode Teslas have being active?

@leejonesNPT

4 ай бұрын

I left my Tesla M3 LFP at City airport for a month last Dec/January came back with the car covered in snow but i had lost less than 10%. I did not have sentry mode enabled and did not access the tesla app once when on holidays, i think a lot of owners are anxious and check the app to see what level of charge they have left constantly which obviously wakes car up and uses power every time this occurs. I had an OP IN Sept which prevented me driving for about 8 weeks the car sat outside with no issues and very little drain that i can recall, the only issue i noticed was the noise from rust on the brake discs from complete lack of use compared to barely any use.

If you cannot charge at home it will cost you far more than a Diesel or even a petrol car. So you will pay more for your fuel, more for the car, more for insurance.

@davetakesiton

4 ай бұрын

We all make a choice. I could buy a cheap crappy diesel or petrol car, but choose to spend twice as much to get what I own. Over the last 4 years it HAS been far cheaper including zero servicing. PS Just had a comment about someone who charges for free. Can petrol ever be free?

@djtaylorutube

4 ай бұрын

Not on Tesla Superchargers. It's just a shade cheaper than diesel, still easily cheaper than petrol. (All depending on charge cost and fuel and mpg but my diesel @ 50mpg and petrols at 28mpg are easily beaten.

I hope that Muckmaster bloke would watch this.

I’ll stick to petrol cheers

The best way to avoid it is not to buy one.

lots of silly people on this planet

EV sales are slowing down now. Great. Now the government will force the rest to get one. If people want one they will buy one. They should not be forced to buy one.

@paulbuckingham15

4 ай бұрын

It will never be made compulsory to purchase a BEV. There may come a time where its difficult to get an ICE, but you will never be forced to purchase a BEV.

@gabrielevarese3704

4 ай бұрын

I must remember to buy milk on my way home.

@davetakesiton

4 ай бұрын

And your data source??? The government and SMMT figures show a massive rise in EV sales. Massive and projected to keep growing.

@geoffersvoiceofreason2534

4 ай бұрын

The rate of sale increase slowed down but sales were still rising. January 2024 saw BEV sales rise by 21% compared to January 2023. How is that a “slowing down”? Oh, by the way, the sales of petrol cars only rose by 7% from Jan ‘23 to Jan ‘24 and diesels actually saw a 10% drop in year on year sales. I not sure about being “forced” to buy an EV but I think some people should be forced to, either read articles properly and not just the headlines from the MSM or not watch KZread vids from anti EV clickbait grifters.