⏰Timestamps⏰ 00:00 Intro 00:45 Medeus 02:29 Gharnef 03:26 Duma 04:25 Rudolf 05:14 Jedah 05:25 Hardin 06:10 Arvis 07:37 Manfroy 08:05 Julius 08:26 Veld 08:46 Zephiel 09:57 Idunn 10:37 Nergal 12:58 Lyon 13:58 Ike 15:03 Zelgius 16:19 Sephiran 17:07 Validar 17:31 Grima 17:45 Gangrel 18:07 Walhart 18:36 Anankos 19:12 Berkut 20:33 Nemesis 21:07 Rhea 21:37 Thales 21:43 Edelgard 22:33 Sombron 23:12 Outro

@emperortoho

Ай бұрын

you accidentally replaced ashnard with ike in the timestamp

@ExcieXC

Ай бұрын

Ike the villain D:

@nessdbest8708

Ай бұрын

Great video, but where's Andaron Saga?

@jeromeheramis2932

Ай бұрын

​​@@nessdbest8708 I hope Mangs will do one for that game too.

@nessdbest8708

Ай бұрын

@@jeromeheramis2932 Same

I would've personally just split "Very Sympathetic" into "Victim" and "Dragon Dementia Sucks"

Ah yes my favorite FE antagonist, Ike

@lsrrr3857

Ай бұрын

Nah, biggest antagonist in FE is definitely RNG

@charlettmoon2693

Ай бұрын

I still love making (almost but not really) jokes about how Ike is just an anti-human racist who blames humans for being racist but is nice to Soren and Laguz when they're racist. I guess it's okay to be racist when they're your friends/you wish you had claws like them???? Also the fact that at the end of FE10 he just leaves everyone and everything, including his own sister, who begged him not to leave her like their father did when he was killed. Absolute scumbag who only cares about the people he wants to make out with, and I'd definitely put him in an antagonist spot just to make people REEEEEEE.

@TheZackofSpades

Ай бұрын

I thought I was stumbling into some DEEP lore about Ashnard being an alternate-timeline Ike or something when I saw that in the chapter list 😅

@jeromeheramis2932

Ай бұрын

​@@lsrrr3857 Stupid RNG always screwing our tactics, our plans, always there to watch over and to troll us, curse you bad RNG.

@lv4715

Ай бұрын

@@charlettmoon2693 To be fair, the Laguz kinda had a point, so Ike siding with them makes sense. And from my knowledge, they were racist to the scumbags that led Begnion. The thing about him leaving though...... Yeah that was an oversight by the writers for sure.

so fire emblem is about defeating old people with dementia

@ElvenRaptor

Ай бұрын

Old people are scary when they go off their meds.

@user-pf1kk7zc2n

Ай бұрын

how many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man the series

@tutorialboss4090

Ай бұрын

My favorite comment thread in this video, yes this is the essense of fire emblem. Senile boomer with all their accumulated wealth takes arms against the youngins.

@minidiamantl5462

22 сағат бұрын

call back to calling nemesis a boomer. This still cracks me up.

Calling Walhart “Walmart” will never not be funny.

@OmniMon94

Ай бұрын

Agreed

The only reason Lyon lost his soul is because he was envious and horny. 100% most relatable antagonist in the series

@nekonomicon2983

Ай бұрын

Erika simps will definitely relate

@ZX-Gear

Ай бұрын

Dude also had huge shoes to fill with his dad dying and his empire left to him added with him and his low self-esteem issues. So yeah. Can relate.

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

I mean he apparently lost to 4 strenght E rank sword eirika in a spar match if I remember correctly, so when you're that much of a twink I kinda get the whole insecurity thing

@Underworlder5

Ай бұрын

so basically, if grado had a therapist then the plot of sacred stones would never have happened

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

@@Underworlder5 I'm convinced therapists don't exist in the fire emblem universe

Anankos did nothing wrong and is easily the most sympathetic of them all, i too would go insane if i was forced to hear azuras singing for all of eternity.

@stefanoandreani2562

Ай бұрын

Anankos not only he bacame Mad but split his Spirit apart and recruit Heroes from another time to help Corrin finish him. Also he killed his best friend. "Why I am the One to surfer, why I am the One left to die?"

@The_B_Button

Ай бұрын

Definitely, although Anankos made a big 🤡 mistake with not taking off with his buddies when they left, but I don't remember what the reason was for Anankos staying

@cameron9484

Ай бұрын

I think he got killed but I can't entirely remember either​@@The_B_Button

Zephiel may be evil, but you've got to appreciate his commitment. When he wants so wipe out humanity, he is included. When he is defeated, he stalls so that Idunn can continue the genocide.

Sombron: His ring! His precious power ring! Gone forever!!! RHEEEEE!!!

@DreadlordZolias

Ай бұрын

MYYYYY PRRRREEEEECIOUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

@cladius3216

Ай бұрын

well evil doofenshmirtz lost his toy train

@ethanreddy6551

Ай бұрын

​@@cladius3216played for comedy not tragedy

@ethanreddy6551

Ай бұрын

That's why engage sucked and never do so well, it's forgotten compared to 3H. I'm an Engage hater and stand by it proudly

@andrewshearsby8125

Ай бұрын

Until we got his motivation I thought he was a good villain 😅

Mangs when talking about Edelgard: Oh my, I feel like I could probably do an entire video on her EDELGARD SPOTLIGHT WHEN???

@karasu__tenshi

Ай бұрын

IIRC she was supposed to be the first TH character to get one…

@raho500

Ай бұрын

It's been a lot of time since one. I think livestreams are just more profitable right now.

@CritAlps

Ай бұрын

Honestly Idk if I want an Edelgard video from the KZreadr who placed her into the entirely unsympathetic category LMAO

@abcisawesome3418

Ай бұрын

@@CritAlps fair enough lol, I thought she was gonna be next tier up because he put the genocidal Zephiel up there

My favorite antagonist is the pirate captain guy in FE7 that escorts you to the dread isle, because i spent a long fucking time trying to beat him only to find out it gives you a game over if you do. In my defense, he stated he likes a good fight. He's just a sore loser who dies when he's killed.

@3verlong

Ай бұрын

Fargus.

@calzone7961

Ай бұрын

"He's just a sore loser who dies when he's killed" should not have cracked me up as much as it did

@benjaminstorace6699

Ай бұрын

@@calzone7961 same here🤣

@ZX-Gear

Ай бұрын

Shirou Emiya:People DIE when they are killed!!!!

@anathema064

Ай бұрын

Found the mooncalf

Self proclaimed #1 Jugdral enjoyer doesn't even mention Raydrik and Travant smh

@matiastorres2553

Ай бұрын

the scence when travant give his son the gungir bc he knew a new ruler could chose a new path and he is going to face leif and die is pure cinema

@Ephraim225

Ай бұрын

They stank But at least someone remembered them right Veld???

The most unsympathetic antagonist in the FE franchise is the fan base. God forbid for you to say anything good, or bad, about any game in the series

@ZX-Gear

Ай бұрын

The Megaten Fandom:You poor baby.

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

The true fe villain was the toxic fans who joined along the way

@MultiKarmacharger

Ай бұрын

It's more of a madness than an antagonist, IMO -it has no real goals or objectives, just a mass of heads reeling

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

@@MultiKarmacharger in other words the fe fan base is the remire village calamity

I'd call Conquest Garon, Hans and Iago very sympathetic because they constantly make me crack up while reading Fates story which is a lot more than I can say about almost any other villain.

@chillstoneblakeblast3172

Ай бұрын

Hans is Buggi if Buggi had 0 charm and was 100% Based

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

Hans is so based he kills Lillith twice and commits war crimes on a daily basis

@bentowers3614

28 күн бұрын

I'd argue Hans is irredeemably unsympathetic for me, since we flat out know he was a criminal in his past who was incarcerated for his crimes, and even after being given a second chance in joining the military, he never quit being a criminal and upgraded to war crimes instead, as well as disobeying his superiors on the regular. He really only gets away with it because Garon was already gone by then, replaced by the puppet Anankos put in his place, but the old Garon we hear about would've definitely put a stop to him very fast. Iago, on the other hand, comes across as somewhat unsympathetic to me. He really seems like someone who was super loyal to Garon and let that loyalty blind him to the point that, once Garon was replaced by Anankos' puppet, he had no problems continuing to do what Garon asked, even as those demands became cruel and evil. So naturally, he'd plan to ruin Corrin's day if Garon asked, and was correct (from his viewpoint of Garon still being there even though we know Garon was gone) to lash out against the siblings for their apparent betrayal. We never got to see the real King Garon. From what we know of him through supports and other such things, it seems that he would perhaps be a more sympathetic figure. A gentle father who just could not bring himself to leave all the women he loved, inadvertently, causing the death of a lot of them. I wonder when he died exactly? That would be interesting to figure out, since he is clearly a puppet by the time we first meet him in Fates.

I’m actually one of the few people who has a soft spot for Rhea. Sure, her hoping Byleth would become the key in getting her mother back is questionable, but regarding her placing Sothis’s crest stone in Byleth as a baby, what other option did she have? Had she not done that, Byleth would’ve died right then and there. Really, her bigger blunder there was simply not being more upfront with Jeralt about what happened. Obviously telling him the full truth would involve divulging knowledge tying to the Nabateans, which she naturally doesn’t wanna risk. But even simply telling him she had to use a forgotten ritual or something like that at Sitri’s behest, or something along those lines, that would’ve likely been the wiser course of action than just dismissing any notion something happened altogether.

@dragoonprime9829

23 күн бұрын

This and the fact that she survived the genocide of her own people

@stevef5888

10 күн бұрын

And let’s not also gloss over the face she’s basically Jesus to Sothis’ God. Like Sothis was a LITERAL GOD on earth. She’s not just trying to bring back mommy, she’s trying to resurrect an actual creation diety who shapes their world. This isn’t an Ulrick brothers situation this is a god is dead, we have killed him, how do we get him back situation.

Why did Ashnard do it? Because why not And he is super buff Truly compelling villain i love him

@grandarkfang_1482

Ай бұрын

Ashnard is the evil version of the Gigachad.

@jooglebob

Ай бұрын

Not to mention he had a child with a manakete to potentially create a strong human-dragon hybrid, then instead uses the child as blackmail to force another manakete to be his mount. Truly hardcore!

@thekiss2083

Ай бұрын

​@@grandarkfang_1482All gigachads are evil

@dustinjones7458

Ай бұрын

​@@grandarkfang_1482 Negachad

@avaliantsoul5408

Ай бұрын

sometimes I just mix Ashnard and Senator Armstrong. I dunno why, but they have a similar vibe in my head.

For Rhea she also witnessed the genocide of her people too and in all honesty fodlan was doing pretty okay in the1k years she was in power

To be fair Rhea got consent before she put Sothis into Byleth.

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

For byleth maybe but for the previous subjects that consent is very suspicious, like when you remember the power dynamic it is very disturbing, knowingly or not rhea is exploiting her position as the archbishop to make her faithfull followers go along with her experiments

@brightlight8852

Ай бұрын

​@pandabanaan9208 They were homunculi they were never human to begin with. Rhea created artificial humans/Nabateans and then adopted and raised as her own children. There wasn't any human experimentation.

@goroadachi9489

Ай бұрын

@@pandabanaan9208 You mean the hominculi she created for one specific purpose? Something like that isn’t exactly immoral considering that she makes them herself.

@NeoNintendo

Ай бұрын

You consent. She consents. Isn't there someone you forgot to ask? Sothis.jpg

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

@@brightlight8852 and that isn't messed up why, sitri seemed pretty human to me and jeralt and aelfric, so even if they are humonculi then all that changes is rhea is creating living beings purely for the goal of solving her mommy issues, rhea is a complex character and not evil but there is no justification for this type of experimentation regardless if they were her followers or creations because either way she is exploiting a power dynamic of someone who would do anything for her

They really need to find a cure for dragon demenntia, could've prevented a lot of conflicts

I always liked the story of Berkut because it's like a Shakespearian-style tragedy of a prince who gradually loses his grandeur and turns self-destructive trying to claw it back. Very edgy, very interesting.

@ZX-Gear

Ай бұрын

Berkut was how I got to know of Ian Sinclair.

On the topic of bosses, I would say King Garon of Nohr. If I recall, he was originally a kind man and when it was revealed that an evil dragon was attempting to destroy Nohr and Hoshido, he tried to make an alliance with Hoshido but he ended up getting controlled and starting a war with Hoshido anyways.

@mihaimercenarul7467

Ай бұрын

If only we saw that side of him, but nope. They could have done that în revelations where he could escape anankos's control and try to redeem himself by sacrificng his life for his children, but no.

@TrueBladeSoul

Ай бұрын

Yeah like if that was something we got to see or was properly explained like have people talk about what he was like in the past it would make Norh a lot less obviously evil since then we would actually have to wonder if Garon is doing what he does for a good reason as a kind man who knows when to harden his heart for the good of his people would look like a monster to Hosido but to Norh a tragic king who is only doing what he has to

@carlospolk5033

Ай бұрын

@@TrueBladeSoulAgreed. It was sadly only touched upon, based on memories of a few others, but only that, because Fates’s writers said F it... If it was properly explained/delved into, I can see him being much higher on the list.

@theelectricgamer9889

Ай бұрын

@@mihaimercenarul7467 something like that could have worked when he was dying but remember he was basically dead at this point only being animated and controlled by Anankos

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

I mean, we never see that side of him, we just see Garon commiting war crimes and trying to kill everything that breathes

Fire emblem 7 isn't perfect story wise by any means, but one of the things I feel they got right was Nergal. He was such an interesting villain.

@Mangs1337

Ай бұрын

Agree!

@mobgabriel1767

Ай бұрын

all of the budget for FE7's story went to nergal and the black fang's backstory and as a result the rest was the tragedy we got XD

I would like to add some context for Rudolph and Rhea. Rudolph rules a nation that is lacking in arable land. Rigel was suffering famine so he went to the sister kingdom of Zofia. King Zofia said " Ha! No" and continued to party and have unprotected sex with random women. Celica and her brother are his only surviving bastard children. Rudolph responded by finding the Falchion, killing Mila, then killing Zofia and his entire family. Rigel is raiding Zofia for resources. Rhea is very much like Medeus in that her people were massacred by Nemesis and his Elite. A lot of her more troubling actions make more sense with the understanding that her entire culture and race were destroyed, and she now has to live with the descendants of her oppressors. The same descendants that swing around the mutilated corpses of her kin and kill each other in droves. Edelgard additionally forces her out of her ancestral land in every route of Three houses.

I just wanna say the headcanon of Sombron being an Elitist and the emblem he was trying to find was Kaga makes him S tier (?)

Quick thing to note about Nemesis, Edelgard and Seiros. Nemesis is given a backstory. He is a thief who killed Rhea's mother Sothis due to the prodding of TWSITD, and then committed genocide on all the Nabateans (rhea's people), feeding their blood to his elite commanders and using their bones as weapons. So yes, he is entirely unsympathetic. Fun villain, though. Rhea's backstory is that her whole race, who just wanted to help humans, was wiped out thanks to Nemesis, with the exceptions of Seteth and Flayn. In addition to this, the reason why she put Sothis's heart in Byleth is because Byleth's mother Sitri was on the verge of death and this was the only way of saving his/her life. Still does some messed up things, mainly in the last chapter of crimson flower, and it is kind of messed up that she never explained this to Jerald, but I would still bump her up a tier, maybe even two if you really want to push it. I don't have much to disagree with on Edelgard, just wanted to add that all she really had to do if she wanted to change the system was talk to Dimitri and Claude, both of whom she got along with, and the gaslighting done in Crimson flower significantly hurt my love for the game. She has one of the most sympathetic backstories, but due to her actions, yeah, she still goes in the bottom tier. So to summarize, Rhea should have been in somewhat sympathetic while Nemesis and Edelgard move to/stay in Entirely Unsympathetic.

@endikaaspeurrutia1013

Ай бұрын

Calling irredimable to Rhea or Edelgard while simpathysing with other villais on the franchise is ridiculous

@sonofpears4691

Ай бұрын

Oh yeah because I’m sure if Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude talked then the church, which is the most powerful faction on the continent, would just roll over. Also what makes you think Claude and Dimitri would agree with her, chances are if she reveals who she is it ends the same way for Dimitri since he still thinks that somehow Edelgard killed his family, so at best she has the leister alliance on her side but even then I reckon Claude would be way more likely to side with the church as he does before. Also are you really saying that Crimson Flower is trying to “gaslight” you into finding Edelgard sympathetic, where does it gaslight you exactly?

@TheTenzen12

Ай бұрын

@@sonofpears4691 First of all Church is NOWHERE near being "most powerfull faction". They don't even have conscripts nor it's united. Second when Empire dunked on their local branch Church, it did just rolled over. Rhea has zero influence in Empire ever since. Third I do agree that CF did not try gaslight anyone into finding Edelgard symphatetic. She is straighforwardly villain even in her own route and I think game was quite honest honest about it (well maybe except changing characterisation of such characters as Ferdinand, Caspar or Dorothea... I guess that counts?).

Sombron is the most sympathetic villain ever guys!!!! He brainwashed his children and use them as soldier in a war to conquer the world because when he was a childeren some guy has stolen his candy and I don't really know actually but come on he gave us a 1 our monologue about his backstory out of nowere how can I don't sympathise with him. I was crying when I learn that he lost his best friend because somthing and then some other thing and then Kaga emblem. Truly the moment of my life

@Abundy

Ай бұрын

Brainwashing children to meet with Kaga seems fitting, truly the best villain in all of FE.

@raho500

Ай бұрын

underrated comment lol.

@Dennis_Ryan_Lynch

Ай бұрын

What peak fiction does to an mf:

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

Sombrom indeed is a villain from a Fire Emblem game

@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441

Ай бұрын

Sombron reminds me of fire emblem new mystery emblem where that dark wizard brainwashes that female bishop therefore brainwash clarrise

I would argue Anankos does get some credit for taking steps to try and prepare the world to kill him after he goes mad, so that's a step above someone like Duma. Of course, there are no steps to go above, so he's in the right spot on the tier list, but just wanted to point that up.

I would put Rhea and Edelgard in the "Somewhat Sympathetic" tier, simply because both of them have the capacity for both love and compassion, but they take extreme actions they feel they must in order to preserve the world. Depending on the path and ending, both Rhea and Edelgard are perfectly willing to step down and leave the future of the world in someone elses hands. Rhea leaves the church to Byleth, and Edelgard honors her own system, and actually steps down as emperor for someone more "worthy" in some cases. It's of course very dependent on what path you look at, but even at their worst, i would say that Rhea would be the one who should be lowest on the list. So the fact that they can both show remorse, loyalty, honor and even love towards Byleth and others, make it seem unfair to paint them as irredeemable or unsympathetic...

I think you put nemesis a bit too high. He and a group of his buddies wiped out all but a handful of people by raiding them in the night while they slept. That and they yoinked the bodies literally turning them into weapons and drinking their blood to roid up. Plus if im remembering right three houses implies that the sacred weapons are kind of alive? (Pls correct me if im wrong on that)

@Treasure_hunter_21

Ай бұрын

They kinda are

I hope my boy lyon is rated highly

Grima has some lore explored in post game shadows of valentia...and yes, fire emblem heroes. He basically hates humans because his creator betrayed him because forneus feared grimas power and sealed him away. Nothing spectacular but its something.

@tbc1880

Ай бұрын

Bro really just had to prove him right didn't he.

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

who plays Heroes

@tbc1880

Ай бұрын

@@AzumarillConGafasBv masochists and people who like reading.

21:10 nemesis, I believe, was established either in the DLC or the GW route, was supposedly just some bandit guy that happened to work well as a figurehead for the Agarthans to prop up as their pawn of revenge against the Nabataeans. So he’s probably just a pawn doing it for power, but idk.

Wow a tier list that actually managed to hold my attention throughout the whole thing, congrats. For me personally I like Ashnard a lot. I think if they had fleshed him out a little more to show a man who longed to set things right and slowly became what we see in the games from all his bloodshed he could have been one of the greatest villains in the series. Anankos is peak, his reasonings and machinations will be revealed when he returns in Rev 2

@chillstoneblakeblast3172

Ай бұрын

Ashnard is Underrated and the Blood Contract ruined him. If the Blood contract did not exist, he would have been a much better villain

@Speedwinghere

Ай бұрын

@@chillstoneblakeblast3172 if the blood contract did not exist tellius might actually have the good story everyone claims it has

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

@@Speedwinghere Most people generally do not claim FE10 to have a good story, even with localization or extended script-changes. It was always about FE9 and the Blood Pact is very much something backwards-extended into the prior plot by the sequel.

@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441

Ай бұрын

@@chillstoneblakeblast3172 dude if blood contract didnt exist. silver hair maiden we wouldnt fight her. think of without brain chips for clones. it would ahd changed very different

your scripted videos are some of your best content.

@Mangs1337

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

@TeamGenerator

Ай бұрын

@@Mangs1337 be honest this whole vid came from the wah wah (insert trivial problem here)

There are a few more important details that need to be noted about Sombron 1. His world had all of the Fell Dragons attempt to rebel against the Divine Dragons of their time, resulting in his race being wiped out with the exception of Sombron, who was a child at the time. So instead they banished him to the Engage world, where they expected the Divine Dragons there to keep him in check 2. Sombron lived for years with only his Emblem to keep him company. The Emblem spirit abandons Sombron the moment he finds someone willing to talk with him, which Sombron seems to interpret as the Emblem abandoning him for needing to rely on others. Alear theorizes that the Emblem left because they knew Sombron would be fine now that he had a companion. Sombron was not fine. 3. Sombron’s goal is to search for his original Emblem so that his only parental figure could be proud of how strong Sombron had become since he started working on his own, and is completely apathetic towards the Engage world and any others he might end up going through. He essentially tells Alear to buzz off since Sombron wasn’t going to do anything further to Alear’s world anyways

@hilgigas09

Ай бұрын

So what you are saying is that Sombron is Toxic Masculinity personified. "Love and Kindness? Ew!! Thats for women and beta males. Nah, it's all about them gains!"

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

He's still a shitty character, even surpassing Anankos

@bgammax5842

Ай бұрын

@@AzumarillConGafasBv for sure yeah, committed like every war crime. Its just annoying to see him get dismissed like the Gharnefs when he’s not a “literally exists to be evil” character

Thales speaks of his people having been driven underground by Rhea's people in the past, but then he also just attacks everyone in sight and became a 'I shall conquer the surface world!' villain, even abducting children to replace them with shapeshifters. I believe it's also implied that it was his people that murdered Sothis and most of her children, then made their bones into The Heroes' Relics. Hell, the Sword of the Creator is Sothis' own spine and the Crest Stone is her actual heart, which he then gave to a powerful Thief King called Nemesis to go kill her daughter Rhea with! I understand his motivation but his evil is way past redemption. Nemesis then also had the nickname King of Thieves besides King of Liberation, so he was already evil before he became the warlord killed by Seiros/Rhea, also irredeemable.

@brightlight8852

Ай бұрын

In the DLC a Slither book reveals that the reason for his beef with the Nabateans is because the Slithers want to perform genocide in all surface dwellers (they had already wiped out several civilizations by them) and Sothis (being a goddess of life) took offense to that.

@Waauugh

Ай бұрын

@@brightlight8852 Daaaaaayum. Okay, mega-deserved to be driven underground.

@Aleph3575

Ай бұрын

@@Waauugh This is incorrect, the book bright is referring to only states that the Agarthans began to fight with each other and attempted to overthrow Sothis resulting in the genocide of most of the civilization, thus implying that Agartha was the global power at that point. The desire to destroy all surface dwellers came afterwards as a result of them worshiping Sothis. I am not saying they didn't deserve what happened to them though, said book also references their "carnal nature" and proclivity towards violence.

@Waauugh

Ай бұрын

@@Aleph3575 Ooyyy, so there's no good true good sides then. OR, this is just speculation on my part, we can look at the Agarthan technology. Maybe it was damaging the world and Sothis came down and went "Bro, stop."

@kinga6347

Ай бұрын

Isn't it implied that Nemesis was the one to kill Sothis? Or was it just Zanado?

Zephiel and Ashnard are my favourite villains because they’re evil, they know they are and yet they are certain that they are doing the right thing.

@lspuria8440

Ай бұрын

Well said. They both are just pure bad ass

@tyeus3673

Ай бұрын

The best villains are the ones who believe they're right

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

Tbh, Zephiel is very selfconfirming. Roy goes to him saying "You are no better, you Hypocrite" and Zephiel just goes... "Yeah actually, that's true and kinda part of the whole idea. I am human, which is why I specifically do not want to rule, I only collect reign to pass it over later".

@kencritical8225

Ай бұрын

​@@lpfan4491makes him all the more based

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

​@@lpfan4491based af

Thales wanted to commit mass genocide upon the children of the goddess as revenge for being forced underground, but considering what the dlc has shown me the underground is kinda neat so hes a dumbass. 2/10 killed by boulder

Honestly you should have put the Begnion Senators on the list. They are basically responsible for everything bad that happens in Tellius. Thankfully that makes them easy to rank irredemably unsympathetic.

@ZX-Gear

Ай бұрын

Yeah. They were the reason why Sephiran planned an all put genocide of the entire continent of Tellius by evoking Ashera's Wrath all cause nearly his entire people of Heron Lagus were wiped out over a misunderstanding THEY caused. Yeah. I would understand why Sephiran skipped the Magneto Stage and went full Apocalypse.

To add to medeus' hatred, the founder of the kingdom of archanea, ardrah, removed the star spheres from the binding shield to sell for money, weakening the seal and making the earth dragons go crazy. He then used the money to sweep across the continent and start his kingdom, and used the gemless shield as his nation's crest, the fire emblem. This was mentioned in fe3 book 2, not the remakes. Really, if someone caused the insanity of my people to make money (even if indirectly), I would be pissed.

FE7 dragon was chilling with his dragon friends when suddenly a portal opened and they were transported and another place. 😢

There is a bit more to Lyon. He also saw the destruction of his country in a vision, and that is why he turned to the dark stone.

Bruh. How are you gonna do Rhea dirty like that? Are we just going to ignore her people were massacred? Are we just going to ignore her people and her mom's remains were turned into WMDs? Are we just going to ignore the fact Nemesis worked with the people who had her people massacred with HER MOM'S REMAINS?! Are we just going to ignore that Rhea and Edelgard are perfect foils to one another? Are we going to ignore the fact that Rhea only put up the crest system and the 10 elites because politics forced her to? AND SHE GETS HIT WITH THE DRAGON DEMENTIA DEPENDING ON THE ROUTES YOU TAKE. This Rhea slander is wild. Literally every other villain that had a backstory got it told in detail. Rhea? "Her mom died, sucks to be her."

@ElvenRaptor

Ай бұрын

Meanwhile, they're all but too happy to side with Edelgard, who actively assists her family's murderers.

i never knew how many gharnefs were in this game's history lmao this makes me appreciate the twist of idunn being a victim and zephiel being the main villain even more because without the context that you get at the end of the game she is basically set up to be another gharnef like character

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

FE6 is very much a creative mirror of the Archanea games. Stuff like how the first chapter is a 90 degrees-turned version of FE1 chapter 1, but ends up playing a lot diffrently in practice. Or how both humans and dragons were major douchebags in both games' backstories, but Archanea focusses more on "The evil dragons! We must stahp them!", while FE6 parodies that direction at first, but ends up being more critical of the human side of the conflict in the end.

@mobgabriel1767

Ай бұрын

@@lpfan4491 imagine if they make a awakening like game but for elibe in FE 19 then

Evil characters that are evil because they're evil are built differently

@grandarkfang_1482

Ай бұрын

This post was approved by Ashnard enjoyers.

@solomonpnq

Ай бұрын

IZUKA MENTIONED 🗣🗣

@thekiss2083

Ай бұрын

I hope Engage is the last "let me tell you about my tragic childhood for the next 27 minutes" villain we get for a while

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

GARON MENTIONED 🗣️🔥🔥 WHAT THE FUCK IS GOOD WRITING 🗣️🔥🔥🔥

Personally I would move Nergal down a tier because his means to accomplishing his goals (Dark/Elder Magic) were already known as a corrupting force and he had people trying help him stop. As for Sephiran, I'm fine with where he is but am tempted to move him up a tier, since on top of the Serenes Massacre, he was also witness to the fall of Beorc and Laguz relationships, including species infighting, and the rise of trafficking. Like that's a lot of atrocities to witness in real time.

Lyon being very sympathetic is not right. Lyon literally goes Sicko mode just because he lost his Father and grado suffers earthquakes all the time(Which is very sad) does not justify throwing a nation's worth of army to their death just to try to resurrect a Dark God that easily 1v1 him. Also playing against Eirika's/Ephraim's psyche instead of trying to talk to them directly is also not OK. Lyon literally started a war over nothing because he wanted all the power and not wanted to win favors with diplomacy. I'll say that Somewhat unsympathetic is the most fitting because Lyon is a sympathetic villain, but his means are pure insanity, especially in the Ephraim Route.

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

Eirika story > Ephraim story. Making Lyon into something that isn't sympathetic was a mistake.

To be fair, Rhea's story is more about "reviving her mother", is about watching ALL of your kind slaughter after living harm harmoniously with the humans, not only that, watching *SPOILER* many of their remaining turn into weapons (bones into the weapons and hearts and blood into the crest stone. Rhea is only trying to revive her mother because she is literally a god, and by doing so Rhea also hope to revive all of her kind that was brutally murdered. About "using other people's baby for her own scheme", when Byleth was born, he was missing a heart, it only then did Sitri (his mom) beg Rhea to put the crest stone inside her (Sothis crest stone) to save the child, if Rhea refuses Byleth would just die, so I wouldn't say this is a selfish action. After seeing Byleth when he is grown, all she did was observe him and try to remind him memories of Sothis to see if Byleth has any of it, she did not experiment on him in any way. Sure you can see her being pretty violent and brutal if you side with Edelgard, but if you see the child you expect to revive your mother sides with the people you swear to destroy aka Those Who Slither In Ther Dark wouldn't your blood boil? Also if you play Verdant Wind/Silver Snow route, you can actually see Rhea slowly realizing her mistake, making artificial life, changing history to conceal the truth, ... And if you S rank support her it goes a little beyond that but to each their own. To sum it up, Rhea story was about watching your kind being murdered and their remains being used for war, so she was trying to revive them, that's basically it.

Mangs, there are several important villains you skimped out on: Where would you place Gheb, Glass, Batta the Beast, and Oliver? :p

@raho500

Ай бұрын

And Kyza

Rating the main villains from FEH (till book 7): Very sympathetic : Veronica, Fafnir Somewhat sympathetic : Gullveig, Freyja Somewhat unsympathetic : Embla Irredeemably unsympathetic : Surtr, Hel, Eitri

@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441

Ай бұрын

yea I say veronica is very sympathetic because she couldnt control her blood until way later. gullveig because well she was controlled and well... for embla... embla became evil due to jealously... freyja I do feel bad for her because she has loyal followers like plumeria. I dont know whats freyja reason why she attacks humans. I think Surtr probally ties in evil when compare to ashnard, the dark wizard new mystery emblem, and begion senator

Man, after I've met Edelgard for the first time, she was destined to fit the dictator role. One that will do anything to achieve their goal, even teaming up with people who fucked you up. She 100% make go "But whyyyyy?!?!"

Lyon just got used by the demon king as a vessel, and that's the part that sucks

Nergal and Lyon are like Darth Vader, what makes them the same is they try to accumulate power even if the source of that power is questionable in order to save what they value and love the most but accumulating so much power corrupted them as that what always happens for seeking to be more powerful, they always fall to the dark side, as cliche as it sounds "Absolute power corrupts" just like what Batman said. Such tragic characters makes interesting villains. You know they've fallen evil but you also understand why they did what they have done. Edit: I saw one of the comments suggesting that Valter should also be here too since he too is also a Victim that turned him into look like an irredeemable prick.

As a mental health professional, I would say that the trauma experienced by Zephiel and Edelgard are vastly underrated in their placements on the list. Yes, trauma doesn’t excuse their actions but the tiers are measured in degrees of sympathy, not justification. First, with Zephiel, his father tried to have him killed on multiple occasions. With the last attempt, there is a detail that you don’t mention that makes Zephiel’s descent to madness a bit ironic. Despite his father being absolutely terrible as a father and the man himself implies he’s nothing special to look up to, Zephiel does because he is his father. In the moment where he is poisoned, Zephiel goes into it extremely hopeful that he has finally gained the respect of his father despite having no reason to believe as such. That is why his father’s betrayal is so hurtful. Zephiel had so much hope that the betrayal of said hope had such the extreme effect it had on him. On top of this he had to kill his father or risk yet another attempt on his own life which just further compounds his trauma. Next, with Edelgard, she literally witnesses her 10 siblings all die horrific deaths in front of her on top of the cruel experimentation done on her. She was taken as a political prisoner by the other nobles in the insurrection of the seven as well, which is what allowed the experimentation to take place. This is on top of everything else that is just messed up in Fodlan, take Hannemann as a good example of the horrors of the Crest system. You’re sympathetic towards characters like Lyon and Julius because they had no control over being possessed. Zephiel and Edelgard had no control over their circumstances either. Lyon and Julius were released from their pain since they lost themselves. Zephyrs and Edelgard had to live with their pain up until their respective deaths. Yes, these are all just video game characters at the end of the day, however, I was compelled to write this because of the very real issue mental health can be and how this is something we can all benefit from being more mindful of.

@avaliantsoul5408

Ай бұрын

While tier lists are obviously based on opinion (literally the whole point), I also got frustrated a bit with how much Egg switched between sympathy and justification villain by villain.

@brightlight8852

Ай бұрын

That's wrong they did have control over their circumstances and they chose to do bad things.

@Aleph3575

Ай бұрын

@@brightlight8852 By that argument, Lyon should also be viewed as unsympathetic because he choose to try and bring his father back to life rather than embrace ruling Grado himself when Vigarde died which is what led to his possession.

@brightlight8852

Ай бұрын

@Aleph3575 Well yeah, ultimately Leon had a choice and he made the wrong one it's not wrong to hold it against someone for making the wrong choice when they weren't forced to do it.

@fufzooz

Ай бұрын

real

As a content creator who has done a vid on this topic before this was a great watch to see a different opinion!!! Fantastic job, love this type of content! Edit: about Gharnef, they actually touch upon the darksphere and him and how it’s darkness took a hold in such a manner that he was even capable of surviving without corporeal form due to the influence of it. Now WHY he always bad is a mystery, but the amplification was proveniente from the sphere, which I think is cool little tidbit of lore.

Sombron doesn't care about the world. He just wants to find his friend. Still an irredeemable scumbag but he is specifically not on a world ending plot. He would've been happy to ditch the main character's world after he fucked it up in order to leave.

It just dawned on me, Sombron is just Gollum but a dragon...and he takes it out on others lmao.

I love the lore videos Mangs! Some of my favorites you’ve ever done, happy to see another one

@portalguy2246

Ай бұрын

Although you did miss Raydrik from 776, dunno if there’s too much to say about him but I did find his absence somewhat strange

I think that Jedah is more like a reflection of Celica and her overreliance in her godess.

I think Jedah should go in the somewhat unsympathetic tier; his motivation is his misguided belief that if Duma goes mad, Rigel is completely screwed (very similar to how celica views the disappearance of Mila).

I think you oversimplified rheas motivation significantly. It's not just the loss of her mother that she mourns. Humans, including the 10 heroes, murdered her entire species in a fully unprovoked war. She still had the compassion and farsight to establish the church, change history so that the murderers of her kind became known as the 10 heroes and tried her darndest to get humans to at least use the legacy of her kin, the crests, for a better future. Instead she had to babysit them for centuries while they use the crests to do horrible research on each other, kill each other, create crest beasts and have nothing better to do than murder each other just as senselessly as they murdered the nabatheans. Rhea is exhausted. She feels her sanity and her compassion slipping. She holds no love for humans after centuries of this nonsense and wants to revive her mother not only because of personal attachment, but also so that sothis can become the new archbishop and rhea can abdicate a position that has been slowy, but surely driving her insane. Imho she should at least be in the somewhat sympathetic tier

@Alector12

Ай бұрын

Sounds honestly a bit similar to Medeus so it makes sense to tier them next to eachother.

@MAJJASTAK

Ай бұрын

I don't think building a church in the middle of the continent to raise children in order to kill any opposition for possibly centuries is "babysitting" the world and trying to make a better future. I don't think it had anything to do with compassion. It's just my opinion, but considering how it was shown she didn't give a fuck about any of the past children and men she had children with in order to resurrect her mother, and that she started caring about Byleth ONLY when he became the first one to be THIS close to be the successful attempt she wanted, makes me think she's entirely selfish, and that she wouldn't have hesitated a SECOND to kill of Byleth and co. If they didn't awaken like the others, and if everything wasn't going to change anyways (depending on your route). She probably would have started all over again having other children with other dudes for that reason, and continue to assert her dominance on Fodlàn for generations like she did up to this point. Imo it really feels like she didn't lose any compassion or anything, but that she ALWAYS was self absorbed. Remember that the Rhea that INSTANTLY wanted to kill us and tear out our entrails when we side with edelgard is still the BASE Rhea we've seen up until this point in the first chapters, NOT the visibly religious maniac post timeskip in Edelgard's route. She did NOT hesitate a single second to want to kill us, while at this point of the story we were just siding with Edelgard to protect our pupil, not side with her for a war or anything.

@GoldenRose116

Ай бұрын

@@Alector12 Except Rhea didn't do half the evil shit Medeus tried to do

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

Fodlan wouldn't have half the issues it has if the people just went to therapy

@Alector12

Ай бұрын

@@GoldenRose116 Pretty much. Makes one wonder why Mangs put her below Medeus.

I'm glad to see my boy Lyon up in that tier. I played sacred stones for the first time when I was in 7th grade, I think. His story always made me feel so sad. I revisited recently as a 30 year old man and still feel the same way. And the way they do that flashback at the end of the game? I cry, dude.

Damn good watch, thanks Mr. Eggman!

Something I do not agree with you is the fact that you state that Rudolph sent Berkut to fight Alm, HOWEVER, Rudolph was always against the idea of letting him enter the battlefield in the first place, and every time Berkut ass got handed by Alm's army, Rudolph always told him to not fight Alm, other than that, the video is fine

I actually disagree on Jedah's placement, even through he's clearly a villain, his motivations aren't simply "haha I'm evil because yes", his devotion to Duma is more out of fear, as you can see from the convo he and Alm & Celica have before the final fight, Jedah would rather keep Duma alive even through he's gone fully mad because he can't imagine a world where mankind can live without the aid of gods, so even through he goes absolutely the wrong way about it, he's just a man that's too scared to live without a higher being watching over him, or at least, that was always my analysis of him.

@boredomkiller99

Ай бұрын

Yeah he is meant to be the foil to Celica who believes everything will be fine as long as they have Mila's blessing. She eventually accepts that the time of the two gods' is over while Jedah never did.

I thought this was an insightful, well thought out, and concise overview of every villain 🎉

"Birthrates started plummeting and his fellow dragons went insane." *modern day intensifies*

I think for me, one of the most “compelling” parts of Nergal is how hard you, the player, need to work to unearth his story. The conditions on finding his plot are so finite…so almost impossible to uncover without a guide…that it makes me more sympathetic. For some reason. Regardless, I think he’s well placed here.

Happy egg talking about villains, made my day 😂

Personally, I would move Nemesis down a tier because just like the Gharnef archetypes, not knowing their motives does not excuse them. I would also move Edelgard and Zelgius up a tier. Zelgius because aside of his interactions with Greil and his family, he has conducted himself honorably on multiple occasions. An honorable person with an inexcusable motive goes into 'somewhat unsympathetic' for me. As for Edelgard, she falls into the 'relatable motive, bad methods' category, which would also be a case of 'somewhat unsympathetic'.

@firenze6478

Ай бұрын

Edelgard also had very little choice. She has a couple years at most left to live thanks to her dual crests and would have been a powerless puppet emperor like her father helplessly watching her kids torment like he did had she not purged her court which would have already grabbed the church’s attention.

posting before someone gets upset that Dimitri isn't listed here at all.

Love when you make these analysis videos!!

Lyon is an interesting case. in one route. he is completely taken over by the demon king. in the other. he let the demon king corrupt him but stayed in control. Making him a bit harder to judge. Also. it was not just him losing his dad but he also found out most of Grado would be destroyed by natural disaster if he didn't do anything. Berkut... he truly was tossed under the bus by his uncle and pretty much just lost his mind in the end when he thought Rinea turned against him. Does not excuse him killing Rinea but still. As for Nergal. He left his kids behind and instructed them to use the dragons gate if he did not come back in time from saving his wife. Needless to say. he failed to save his wife and came back too late for his kids. Later. after meeting Athos and learning how to steal quintessence from knowledge in Arcadia to save him kids. He just went too far and was struck down and banished. Soon after. dark magic completely corrupted him. One can argue how much was his own doing and how much was the dark magic. Especially his actions in Arcadia. maybe Eremiya from FE12 and Raydrik from FE5 should have been on the list too..

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

Eremiya is kinda unratable for all intends and purposes. Like, do we rate the original Eremiya or the one we fight in the story? One is the sweetest woman ever but got overwritten by brainwashing only to be briefly restored later to be taunted and the other may as well be an AI programmed to only know to be horrible because she is a brainwashing-induced rewrite by Gharnef. There is really no meaningful conversation to be had, one version of her is in very sympathetic by default and the other in irredeemably unsympathetic by default, and neither is anyone's fault except the evil wizard who is so unsympathetic that he needs a new tier at this point.

@AceAviations2

Ай бұрын

Was he really in control though? It's very possible that he was being manipulated in Ephram's route, in other words he was basically a puppet to the Demon King and doing his bidding while believing that he wasn't. Imagine not truly being in control of your own actions while thinking that you are, the thought of that is horrifying.

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

@@AceAviations2 Ephraim route definitly muddies the waters and tbh, that's not really a good thing.

@pandabanaan9208

Ай бұрын

@@lpfan4491 honestly I think ephraim's route inherently makes lyon so much more interesting, instead of the way too overused innocent possessed victim storyline they actually made lyon have some agency and be partially in control, he is essentially trying to overthrow the demon king just so he can look more impressive to ephraim wich is a dynamic that's very unique for the possessed villain trope, very few times does the possessed character actually get to rebel against his possesser and even fewer do we see the possessed try to out villain the ancient evil villain, to this day lyon is still one of the few examples of the possessed villain trope that actually tried to do something different and not follow the same overplayed story beat for beat

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

@@pandabanaan9208 That would be cool. If they didn't pull a "nuh uh, he is not in control actually" at the 11th hour. Ephraim mode straught up does not know what to say, so it says muddied gibberish. Eirika's story is pretty stereotypical, but playing it straight allowed for them to craft something of quality. Being "unique" does not mean being good, it's like the plottwist idea of "You thought I was good? Nah, trolled" that is getting deployed way too much in recent years.

Iirc, sombron was exiled and brought over an Emblem Ring, he lost that Emblem Ring after supposedly connecting with some in Elyos, gone emo, built an army and trusted nobody to get emblem ring powers, then travel to other worlds to find said ring. Doesnt change his rating tho lol.

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

"Built and army and trusted nobody". Nice.

@AzumarillConGafasBv

Ай бұрын

What happened to Dorcas

16:14 i think he is somewhat sympathetic. He was branded and was alone as a person. He probably defines himself in his ability to fight because he trusts nothing else. It happens to men who lost faith and trust in all others and thus substitute and cope by placing that trust and faith in non-human things... Things like culture (fandoms, groups, basically shared values based on an abstract principle or idea). His culture is that of battle and he devotes himself completely in it.

Man I love the lore in this series and the questions it asks

I actually have a theory as to why dragons degenerate over time. I think what's happening is that dragons are SO powerful that a physical body is actually incapable of containing all that power so then their physical bodies deteriorate over time. However when dragons become spirits or find some way to supress or contain their power such as through the use of a conduit like a dragon stone they seem to be fine. Just a theory though.

@fufzooz

Ай бұрын

Nice one! Naga and Tiki are the perfect examples of overcoming that problem by becoming spirits or going to sleep so they can't deteriorate

Edelgards whole shtick seems to allign with Rudolf and Walhart. Despite being a pretty intelligent character, her plan is kind of dumb and demands lots of unnecessary sacrifice and she is undoubtetly the main instigator of the war that plaques Fodlan for over 5 years. Its really hard to say if Edelgard deserves to hang with the Rigel boys up in Somewhat symphathetic tier but remaining stuck with guys like the Gharnefs and Ashnard is maybe a bit disingenuous. Maybe being in Somewhat Unsympathetic tier suits her best, surrounded by similar warmongers with sad pasts like Gangrel, Zephiel and Arvis. And speaking of moving up, though Rhea did, in her own words, questionable things, she did suffer similar tragedy as Medeus, seeing almost her entire kin slaughtered and turned into makeshift weapons by humans but did not go to drastic genocide solutions like Medeus, Zephiel or Sephiran and instead ruled Fodlan for over thousand years in relative peace. That is to say, she should most likely sit next to Medeus in the tier. Of course, these things, especially the 3H cast, are highly subjective. Oh, but Nemesis definetly goes to evil tier. This guy slaughtered dozens of innocents and made weapons out of their bones. It does not get any nastier than this. Honestly, I am baffled that Rhea allowed the reveration of Nemesis and the Ten Elites in the history books, hell, making most of their descendants even into nobles, after what they did to her family.

the main antagonists are the early game bandits.

Here's the thing. Some speculate that the emblem Sombron lost is Sommie, since Sommie appears on an emblem pedestal. If true, then all of his actions are understandable and 100% justifiable. Who wouldn't wage war against the world if that little guy left your side without notice.

I may be making a very far-fetched statement but.. I think there was a reason why Zelgius killed Greil. We know that Zelgius isn't the type of man to unnecessarily kill people and he is also very calculating. If he killed for the sake of competition then he might have killed Skirmir, a Powerful lion laguz and proved his strength. But killing Skirmir would demolish his original intents of peace talk. Like I said very calculating. He also took many abuses from Begnion Senators without retaliating. He even accepted execution for upholding his honour. I am pretty sure when he met Ike he must have realised his potential. In fact, Ike could be the only one to thwart Ashnard's and Sephiran's mad plans. Maybe, in all his disguise, he planned to have Sephiran's plan thwarted. I'm saying this because it would've been impossible for Ike to become this strong if his father wasn't slaughtered..He gave Ike this motivation. I do not deny that he wanted to groom him into his father's equal but he may have done this because he already calculated the possibility that Ike may be the only one who can save world from destruction. Even if Zelgius didn't assist Sephiran, he would've still succeeded into awakening Ashera. But because of how loyal Zelgius is to Sephiran he found an indirect path to foil his plans without actually confronting his master. This could be possible because of how much Zelgius looked up to Greil. And he believed that Ike is the only one who can surpass Greil and be the one to save the world.

I can't believe you didn't include Gharnef's "WHOA-HO!" from the OVA when talking about his backstory. You had one job, Mangs!

I disagree on Zelgius. He may be a dick for killing Greil and forcing Ike to become the succesor of Greil, but he was also the driving force behind Ike becoming the man he is at the end of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. I also think that he actually cared a lot about Ike because he knew what happened to his mom and Greil's madness. This is important because he could have easily told him about it to have Ike tip over the edge, but instead he decided to taunt him in other ways and guide him by his mere looming presenece. It should also be considered that without Zelgius returning in RD, Ike had a reason to become stronger again which in turn led to him literally killing god. I still don't think that he should be placed any higher than "Somewhat Sympathetic" but I do believe that he is the best "Rival" character they ever made.

@ZX-Gear

Ай бұрын

He was a good teacher. And a good friend.

I thought this was a Heroes Video with that thumbnail. "They're Grand Hero Battles give them a break...except for Edelgard."

5:25 In defence of Judah, there is a line in Echoes where Judah gives the impression that they believe it is impossible for humans to not live under a Dragon’s authority. An insane dragon is bad but if you believe no dragon means humans go bye-bye, I can see the logic of sticking with the insane dragon.

I got no sympathy for edelgard. If she just talked to Claude and Dimitri yknow the future rulers of their respective countries. They would’ve helped her. But she didn’t. And instead she caused a war.

@evilworld3147

Ай бұрын

You know she could talk to Rhea about it as well. She tells her what happened to her, and she knows the truth behind the creast in three hopes timeline.

@Delby5

Ай бұрын

@@evilworld3147 I mean I don’t count 3 hopes as canon but yeah. Literally could’ve avoided all that death and destruction if she only opened her god damn mouth

I agree with Arvis' placement. Some people are more sympathetic to him because later in life he learned the terrible mistakes he made, somewhat redeeming himself. But he was very much unsympathetic in his goals when he became Emperor where he was just a glorious bastard. Because we got to see him learn from his mistakes it makes him more sympathetic and frankly pulls him out of irredeemably sympathetical. His bsckstory isn't enough to make him more sympathetic, its actually his development after the fact. Zephiel is somewhat the opposite. He never redeems himself, we can just understand how he got to that point.

@JaidynReiman

Ай бұрын

Lol @ Edelgard. I don't like her, I think her plan is absolutely terrible and her means of doing so are even worse. That said even I would put her in "Somewhat Unsympathetic" lol. I can at least understand she became completely broken and is being manipulated by the true villains. Nemesis I think does fall into Irredeemable. What little we know of him proves he is.

How is zephiel higher than edelgard? At least she isn’t trying to wipe out humanity and only has a few years to live

@aloysiusokon3334

Ай бұрын

And how is Medeus more sympathetic than Rhea, for that matter?? Rhea's not trying to start a war to subjugate or wipe out humanity, she's trying to prevent a war if anything. And she's a LOT more open to seeing reason than Medeus is.

@firenze6478

Ай бұрын

@@aloysiusokon3334 she and edelgard are literally mirrors to eachother. They should be the same rank wherever they are

@hanzou1238

Ай бұрын

@@aloysiusokon3334 She kills anyone who opposes her and burns people alive in CF endgame. How is that more sympathetic than Medeus?

@hilgigas09

Ай бұрын

@@hanzou1238 She killed people who made at least three attempts on her life and thought their position as priests would protect them from retribution. Sending Christophe (1), Lord Lonato's militia (2), Holy Mausoleum raid (3). To her it's not just to behead Kostas, a low-level thug, but spare someone who raised an army to kill her people. She sees no value in arbitrary titles when it comes to murder and banditry.

@aloysiusokon3334

Ай бұрын

@@hanzou1238 Because you sided with the person who started a war of conquest against her and the rest of the continent in that route- and note that that's at the endgame, after 5 years of war, I believe. Marth isn't trying to conquer the world for the "greater good". Also, that's only for the CF. In the other routes, Rhea's way less bloodthirsty and far more willing to own up to her failings and give up power. Medeus never does that.

It may not be cannon from the games but the fe4 manga by osawa shines so much more light on the villains and makes them all much better characters especialy Travant. If anyone has time to spare I highly recommend it since it recently finnished translating

for nergal i'd say very sympathetic because its got to be the dark magic's fault, he doesn't even remember his children, only his original goal of opening the gate, though the reason is forgotten and the why's, only Athos's friend at the game seemed to have mastered dark magic but became a mirror to any who are in front of him, he remained good and even helped revive Ninian saying he'll probably be dead soon too, reviving Ninian with no negative side effects probably took everything out of him, when people love too much and mess with the dark arts ya kinda can lose your mind as if possessed

@Raharu95

Ай бұрын

I remember listening to a video exploring Nergal's backstory and it was pointed out that Nergal and Brammimond are very good foils of each other. Both dark magic users, both lost themselves in that pursue. But Nergal kept his ego while everything else around him deteriorated, while Brammimond lost most of himself but kept somehow kept his sense of right and wrong. To put the nail int he coffin, Nergal never achieved his goal of reviving someone while Brammimond seemingly did at the cost of the rest of his life. It seems that truly mastering Dark magic means losing yourself, but Brammimond was the only one you could call a true master in the end.

@yukimurasanada5209

Ай бұрын

@@Raharu95 I say playing FE7 makes you feel much more out of playing FE6, though not canon i didn't know at the time I got FE8 first then 7 then 6 on Emu so felt more from Hector passing and raising Lilina to wreck Bern and for Sue as well since I assumed she was Lyn's daughter and getting Athos's and Brammimond's tomes too

@avaliantsoul5408

Ай бұрын

@@Raharu95 IMO, the primary difference between the two is that Nergal didn't accomplish his goal. While we don't know a ton about Bramimond, he's one of the Eight legends, so his goal in mastering the Arts may have been to defend humanity against the dragons. Having accomplished that, he turned to simply defending his legendary tome, and the Seals on the other's tombs. Nergal doesn't strike me as being particularly driven by ego, or even possessing much ego. He doesn't really ever act particularly evil; he kills quickly for the purpose of gathering quintessence, and he doesn't ever get particularly nasty, just cold and driven. He is almost single-mindedly driven to resurrect/recreate his wife. I think the reason he tries to open the gate is his old connection to the dragons, and his hunt for quintessence, of which he would need a massive quantity in order to create and sustain a draconic morph. Also, I think Aenir was like, hella dead by the time he found her (assuming he did), whereas Ninian was more of in-the-process of dying when Bramimond revives her. So I'm not sure actual resurrection is a possibility in Elibe (which is also typical for fantasy settings, usually necromancy is the closest it gets). Basically, I think Nergal wasn't quite entirely soulless due to his extremely powerful grip on his goal, while Bramimond was which results in him literally mirroring whomever he is interacting with. To summarize, neither really exhibited much moral agency, which could be attributed to their mastery of the dark arts.

@Underworlder5

Ай бұрын

@@avaliantsoul5408 nergal has never been shown to want to resurrect aenir. he gathered quintessence to open the dragons gate, not the other way around. specifically, he wanted to gather quintessence and open the dragons gate in order to reunite with his kids, but too much dabbling in dark magic made him forget why he wanted to open the dragons gate in the first place. so his insane, addled mind wants to do it to release the dragons and control them to conquer elibe

Edelgard lost my sympathy when she sided with the people who ruined her life and brainwashed her in order to destroy the Church.

@pedroribeirodesousa9152

Ай бұрын

Yeah it definitely feels like she went after the wrong target,if anything the church would have helped her destroy the agartgans,the church has issues but there’s a lot of way of going about fixing them ,also she tried to have the other 2 lords killed for no reason

@grandarkfang_1482

Ай бұрын

​@@pedroribeirodesousa9152She wanted them killed so they wouldn't get in her way.

@angelpearson696

Ай бұрын

My thoughts exactly

@Isaiahpgn

Ай бұрын

I understand why they wrote it that way but at the same time its the dumbest thing ever

@goroadachi9489

Ай бұрын

The thing is, she didn’t exactly have the full picture so she got easily put in that situation. Claude was really the only one who pieced the entire puzzle together mostly because he had the most time and incentive to do so.

Villains that have greater motivations than evil for sake of evil are great, but they're also really hard to do, which is how Edelgard falls flat when she is a self-made hipocrite by doing awful, basically iredeemable crimes to justify her means, which instead of seeing sympathetic, just looks pathetic.

@chillstoneblakeblast3172

Ай бұрын

Dimitri is the One True King of Fodlan. Claude is just a foreign invader

@4wheal

Ай бұрын

I also hate the fact that she is rarely ever challenged for her choices, definitely in her own route, unlike the other characters

@goroadachi9489

Ай бұрын

@@4wheal All of the students you fight challenge her on her stance. Dimitri challenges her. Dimitri even has a private meeting with her during his route. Claude also challenges her.

@4wheal

Ай бұрын

@@goroadachi9489 No, they dont they become yes men who go along with whatever she says the few that might raise a concern either give up or have to alter their beliefs to fit what Edelgard wants. That's because the writers know Edelgard can't stand as a character if people point out the joles in her logic. The Dimitri one in AM is one i will give you, and it's probably the best writer Edelgard is as a character in the game.

@goroadachi9489

Ай бұрын

@@4wheal Dimitri literally has a private meeting with Edelgard herself, and challenges her on her ideals. Even the students who join you do it for a specific reason, not tied to Edelgard’s beliefs.

lekain also deserves to be on the list. he is arguably the main villain despite sephiran being the puppet master in the end but the former is the reason for the latter's descent into madness.

Ngl, this is a very good sympathetic tier list you have with the placing of every FE antagonist! Nice one! Now…. Don’t mind me but I will be placing the final boss of Andaron Saga in the Somewhat Sympathetic

Honestly I agree with a lot of this list with most things being pretty minor, but the main differences for me are that I would put Sephiran up a tier as watching the genocide of your people is something that I could easily see why you’d want the world to end and while it isn’t excusable, especially since he can join you kind of, I think he at least deserves some sympathy. Then for Nemesis, I don’t know if I made this up or what, but I always assumed that he did what he did in response to oppression from the children of the goddess and the depiction we see is really just the church doing it’s thing, but I could be wrong. Then the big one for me is Edelgard. Not because what she did was right or made even a bit of sense siding with those who slither, but because you need to keep in mind she did this all when she was a child. She saw pretty much all of her family wiped out and was tortured herself and, being that she’s a child, only saw one way out which was to side with the smaller force that she thought she could take out afterwards. Well thought out? No. But I think she deserves at least some sympathy considering her situation.

One of the biggest problems Modern Fire emblem has with it's villains is that they are either completely irredeemably evil. Or they are supposed to be sympathetic and they inform us of why they are evil...but we simply don't see enough of it. We never get a frame of reference. I want to see more villains like Duma, Nergal and Arvis. And less villains like Sombron and TWSD.

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

The weird part is that they try to give Thales a frame of reference, like 10 seconds before Azure Gleam is over. The idea they went with could have even gone somewhere, if it didn't come 2 whole games too late(and there wasn't dialogue saying even other members of TWSD are iffy about him), because it actually fits prior lore.

to be fair on rudolf's seemingly insane plan of start a war that'll make everyone hate him but love his hero son, his goal was to kill duma and mila, who while mentally unstable, were still beloved by their people, and killing mila specifically would've caused a war no matter what. plus for the most part it was the duma faithful and chansolar desaix who were doing most of the evil stuff. rudolf still enabled that by starting the war, but with how he acted throughout that war, it's clear he didn't want a war, he just couldn't find an alternative.

@lpfan4491

Ай бұрын

Tbh, that is kind of an issue with Echoes imo, it does not really give a compelling reason why Rudolf just got rid of Mila first. While both went mad, it always seemed like it hit Duma much worse and he should have been the priority.

@comfyghost

Ай бұрын

@@lpfan4491 that is not true at all, there's a pretty simple reason why: duma only gave rudolf the falchion so he could kill mila, so it was either kill mila first or not kill either of them at all. but even without considering that, there's still a pretty obvious reason why he didn't go straight for duma's head, as his own country would immediately turn against him, likely meaning he wouldn't even have an army to go kill duma at all. considering like half of all the enemies in the game are duma faithful i wouldn't be surprised if they made up a lot of rudolf's army, but even the ones who hadn't literally sold him their souls would still consider him their god, and they wouldn't want him dead, especially since it'd make their already baren land even worse. and this is all assuming he could've killed duma at all. duma was described as war god, having a might makes right philosophy, and it took the combined efforts of two lords and their armies to finally take him down. on the other hand, mila was a god of indulgence, and like her country, likely got too comfortable with that lifestyle, and her strength easily could've atrophied enough that rudolf could defeat her (and even then, he couldn't even kill her as she simply sealed herself and falchion away)

@Underworlder5

Ай бұрын

@@lpfan4491 "hey, soldiers! let us go kill our god!" i doubt that plan would be possible any time. unless he was able to kill duma singlehandedly, he had to get creative

2:22...I did not have Falchion for this fight, I used Capped Strength Barst with Devil Axe to kill Medeus.

i would say Arvis should go into the somewhat sympathetic tier. i mean you forgot to mention how he lost his parents at a young age what with his father committing suicide and his mother running out on him. like how does that not earn him some sympathy points? the guy just wanted a loving family and to make the world a better place for everyone, he even succeeded at both to some degree but it was a short lived success due to outside forces ruining it all for him.

I would also say that Thales and Nemesis are irredeemably unsympathetic because Thales sends Nemesis with the 10 Elites to slaughter the Nabateans in the canyon of Zanado. Nemesis and the 10 Elites then drank the blood of the Nabateans they killed, and the Agarthans fashioned their bones into weapons. They drove Rhea to madness and to commit the horrific acts that she does. It's also Thales that forced Edelgard into becoming what she is. As much as Edelgard chose to do a lot of horrible things in 3H, Thales was the puppetmaster. I realized this whenever Edelgard talks about Rhea and the Nabateans in Crimson Flower - I can't tell if it's her talking or some form of Agarthan mental conditioning.

@goroadachi9489

Ай бұрын

It’s moreso that Edelgard only knows so much, and has a harder time getting access to the information that Claude was able to get his hands on. Even Hubert was barely able to get part of the puzzle. That combined with the fact that she had to keep the support of the soldiers, puts her in a bad spot.