What's funny is that everything you would need to figure out this strategy would be taught to you in first 2 years of your CS degree, yet it is so revolutionary. Creazy.

@RogerKeulen

19 күн бұрын

Yes, finance people are just mostly stupid. Most of the work is done by people of other fields and are just hired by them. Smart people will not want to make money when they are 12 tears old. Most of them want to make usefull products like video games or other stuff. Finance is something you do because your forced by your family. Or because you have no idea what to do with live and then selects a easy education wich gets to mutch repect.

@martin_nav

17 күн бұрын

Sometimes not even that I had lessons about networking including the whole TCP/IP and ISO/OSI stack on my high school.

@asdfbeau

15 күн бұрын

what's funny to me is: something that's a federal crime (DDoSing by holding connections hostage with corrupt packets), is a slap on the wrist, and a fine, for the finance bros.

@dvh6298

17 сағат бұрын

​@@RogerKeulen"usefull things like videogames" 😂😂

Would love more of this type of content! Great Video!

amazing video, please do more breakdowns of publicly available defunct strats

The fact I just got done making my own networking tool where I learned how to craft the IPv4 header, TCP header, etc and validate and manipulate packets and checksums is ironic.

@monad_tcp

19 күн бұрын

that's a cool thing to do, I also implemented a TCP stack once, it was an upgrade for a embedded POS (point of sale) that was able to only use external COM modems, and I implemented the entire network card driver and the TCP stack, and I used the sodium for cryptography. The entire thing had to fit in 512KB of RAM.

@ourworldisstrange7301

19 күн бұрын

@@monad_tcp Wow that’s impressive I have made drivers before but doing it on emended systems with very limited amount of ram while also having to remake the TCP stack is on another level nice work.

@onlyms4693

6 күн бұрын

Do you have full documentaion of you doing it?

@ourworldisstrange7301

6 күн бұрын

@@onlyms4693 Depends what you mean by documentation. I am working on making a website for it containing documentation on how to use it but if you are talking about documentation on how it’s made I do not.

love this content. make a series about explained version of known quant models.

Thanks for your videos! What you are doing is fantasticly interesting and very educative. Each video is filled with really useful info. Best wishes!

This is crazy that you dive into TCP protocols.... I was not expecting this and wish I knew this when my , non-finance, company was using optimized TCP stacks for other purposes.

i'm not proficient enough to have implemented this, but it's still valuable in a sense to understand the breadth of Alpha. great vid!

This was such a good watch. Feels like its in a very similar vein/spirit of front running but definitely different.

Nice video, I am curious how you heard about it in the first place. Any website you recommend?

My first job in what would become my career field was the "physical layer monkey" for a large aviation company and OSI was beat into me. That was 20+ years ago. Trading is a new hobby for me so I found this fascinating. Thanks for the quality video :)

Excellent clarity

Super interesting! Thank you!

Really insightful vid...... Please do a vid reviewing the Certificate in Quantitative Finance (CQF) next

this is going to be fucking insane if this video actually does a deep dive on the patent and its implementation.

@asdfbeau

15 күн бұрын

the patent is just countermeasures. The CME didn't do this for our sake, or to stop them from making money, they did this because it's essentially DDoSing their systems: flooding a system with corrupt tcp packets, in order to hold open connections, is considered abuse of a computer system...except in finance, apparently.

Thanks for the information :)

Great video! Thanks for sharing

opened my eyes, good stuff

Once I cheeses some API by crafting my entire request in a single packet while other applications where sending 2 or 3 packets. But this is on another level, I did that to save resources in a GPRS network and get priority over the other credit card transactions of the other customers, thus my system would complete transactions faster and give a better sensation for the end user when the CC network was congested.

i admire this guy, he works hard

would love to see more models like this used in Quants

That was cool. Thanks.

Very cool info.

Wow, I didn’t realize that HFT is mostly about computer science than math.

@chankayau

18 күн бұрын

not even. it's an arm race of hardware indeed

Hi, great video. I had a suggestion: Can you just use the mic or the way you recorded earlier videos? this was a bit difficult to hear compared to other videos you have put. Thanks!

You only able to gain few millisecond so if you do HFT this is a great technic, but 'normal' trading not really count I think.

Coding Jesus, thanks for the video. Very informative 🎉. I have a question. I have several openings in the quant / hedge fund space recruiting RADIUS specialists. Why do we need such a specialism in quant networks?

🔥🔥 this is insane

nice explanation.

Thank you 👍

Good one !

Just say that your THE economics genius and get over with it. Love you.

Really enjoyed this video - thank you so much. Now I can see how some quants make seven figures.

Damn actually really hyped for this one

@40sUphillBothWays

19 күн бұрын

How is your comment 14 hours old when the video was uploaded 40 mins ago? Edits? Just curious.

@grantmartin2002

19 күн бұрын

​​@@40sUphillBothWays the video premiered. So comments were open like 16 hrs before the video actually went live

@40sUphillBothWays

17 күн бұрын

@@grantmartin2002 Thanks for your reply--means a lot.

this type of content is interesting

Cool exploit, thx for the extract

Mind blowing, now i know why they are always ahead

what do you think about the quAMCnts and quaGMEts? and roaring kitty?

how to use this as a trader and anticipate algo moves?

Did they do this strategy in 2018? The patent has publicacion date June 2018

@codingjesus: Can this concept be scaled down and be profitable for an individual trader?

The rules say something along the lines that you can't send an order without having an intention to trade and i think it applies to partial and corrupted orders

I think perhaps its not the TCP "messages" that are incomplete, since it is just a packet stream and knows nothing about the contents. Its the FIX messages that are being split over multiple TCP packets, such that any given FIX Buy/Sell message is incomplete. So not the transport layer, but the session layer that is being held up on incomplete messages?

@rupertsmith6097

3 күн бұрын

Also seems like little advatnage to be had here. A FIX Buy/Sell message could be only a few hundred bytes and fit into a single TCP packet. The last byte will also take a single TCP packet. Unless these Buy/Sell messages are unusually large for some reason (like trading more complex instruments that need many more parameters or something)?

You should change your name from coding Jesus to trading Jesus

@tashfiqmannan

3 күн бұрын

Quant jesus

This would only be viable if they were to complete or corrupt the message before sending heartbeat to the exchange to maintain the connection, right? As if they were to send heartbeat before completing the message, it would corrupt the heartbeat itself.

@RogerKeulen

19 күн бұрын

Depends on implementation. It's basicly a slow lorris attack on a exchange that apperently did not have a computernerd working for them. It's older then a VIC20 this technique. Also using TCP for exchange is a bit overkill. Just look at the different order types there are and how big a order is in information terms. Think you can fit a order inside just a couple of bytes. I see it more as s business men crying like a baby when they meet a computer nerd. Computer nerds go to jail when they cancel a order, business men do not. And autistic people go to jail for growing there account to astronomic sizes and not taking actual profits.

@shashanksharma1778

19 күн бұрын

​@@RogerKeulenYeah exactly, the implementation has changed wayy too much for every other exchanges as well. And I don't think we are trying to fit the order in a couple of bytes as the ordering of data is going to matter as well but thinking about you have build a full order knowing what price, quantity and other stuff you are going to send before hand then you can basically send the full order and not send the last couple of bytes.

Nice

Patent attorney here. I reviewed the patent and can confirm that coding jesus is the messiah.

Are those orders waiting in the price level queue corrupt and showing?

@CodingJesus

19 күн бұрын

As mentioned in the video, TCP layer is seperate from tha App layer. Nothing is served up from the TCP layer to the App layer until the message is complete and valid. None of the preloaded orders show up on the orderbook before they're completed on the TCP level.

@RogerKeulen

19 күн бұрын

@@CodingJesus They did not even show up in logging. Except dropped packets and stuff. Just like olympic games, people will start to detect you when you push it to mutch. Most of the time its a side channel you didn't think of that makes you actually detectable. Like your state of the art "illegal deep packet inspection router" goes offline for no clear reason at random points 🙂. Holding open more then 50.000 connections according to the managing software. And yes here is my "ACK" to you.

Interesting topic! By the way, the content loudness is very silent (On desktop, right-click, Stats for Nerds, Content loudness -17.1dB). It should be above -3 dB to have better audio.

In your analogy, you still mention that the last (non-corrupt) byte gets sent to the corresponding trade order (for instance, to a "bullish trade" for good news). Does that not mean that they would have to wait for the news to decide which trade should go through? So the order would be: wait for news - interpret as bullish or bearish - send last byte to corresponding trade. How would that be faster than *not* having your trade already 99% of the way to the exchange, since you still have to wait for the news? Surely it can't be due to the time difference that it takes to send the prior 9 bytes of info (in your example)? Is that all the edge they need?

@CodingJesus

4 күн бұрын

Run a 100 meter race where you begin at the starting line and your opponent is 1 meter away from the finish line.

Is it the same as FPGA ?

"I'm not cheating, I'm cheesing!"

fantastic, i actually understood it lol

great explainer. I think you meant "opportunistic" not "optimistic"

Coding jesus is cooking! This year we getting that 100k plaque with this one🗣️🗣️🗣️🙏🙏🙏

so much words for front running

Cool

Genius...

@pasduroc5422

17 күн бұрын

Or developpers who were making "home made" TCP message at low level to gain some milliseconds, (instead of using lib) but makes bugs by trying, and so easely figure out that they can do the same thing on the broker's servers (result of common bugs are not receiving message on the other end... because the message has a "format" problem...)

@trumanbeal5668

4 күн бұрын

@@pasduroc5422 excellent!

Hi Jesus , Great Video.

good explanation except I still dont understand how being a few microseconds ahead translates to billions of dollars, which seems like a big oversight.

@mark1980100

19 сағат бұрын

well you would buy or sell ahead of everyone else before the market moves, wait for it to move and hedge

This assumes there's some correlation between events and price, which almost never predictable.

@CodingJesus

8 күн бұрын

Price other goes up or down, front loading playing both sides.

@InfiniteQuest86

8 күн бұрын

@@CodingJesus Yeah, but I mean you still have to choose one before the move happens. How do you know which way the move will go? Interest rate cut of 0.25%, which way is price going? No one knows.

Is there any hope for the retail investor ?

@rajarshibasak347

12 күн бұрын

😂😂😂

That's awesome... planting strategies to use against the newbs who use it.

I wonder how CME learnt about this strategy to penalize such trades.

Soo what about on Crypto exchanges

@RogerKeulen

19 күн бұрын

What do you think ? There are more then 700 of them. Most of them run the same "off-the-shelf-software" sollution with some customised parts. There buggy like hell and if the API will tel you have _ETH 3.04E-6_. Then you also understand there level of how to select the right programming language for the job. Finance and floating point do not work well when your asses is over 50K.... Every month i pick a new exchange to explore. It's fun and nice hobby just like gardening.

@pasduroc5422

17 күн бұрын

​​​@@RogerKeulenI do you "explore" the crypto brokers ? Record the packets with wireshark ? Most of the cryto echange use "RestAPI" like or "websockets" ? (I only know coinbase that propose TCP FIX messages) (And I don't have any question about gardening 😊)

Neo: What are you trying to tell me - that I can "manifest abundance"? 🙃✨ Morpheus: No Neo, I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready - You won't have to.🧀✨

how is powell saying good afternoon hawkish 😂😂

@CodingJesus

5 күн бұрын

🤪

Almost like a DDos attack...

Why did they ever publicize this? Why kill the golden goose?

@CodingJesus

18 күн бұрын

The patent was publicized by the exchange, not the firm(s) who were practicing the cheese strategy. The patent details the 'cheesing' that they discovered as a pretext for introducing their solution to it (the subject of the patent, that being the protocol to delay processing of split messages). Sorry if that wasn't made clear.

Wild that 3 microseconds can have such a difference😵

Why would they patent it and make the info publicly available?

How can I use this video as an average goldfish to make some money ?? At least this guy make some money from KZread ads, but how can I make money from this knowledge ?

Guys, if we have Coding Jesus , then what kind of Quant would be Coding Judas?

How and/or why is this information useful to anybody

Lol this is definitely hacking.. I define hacking as using systems in a way they're not intended to be used for

@RogerKeulen

19 күн бұрын

It's 100% inside the specification Just change the specification. And maybe select better topols next time you start to create a exchange. Sending a a order and streaming a youtube video should be different things and not compatible.

how could this be used for crypto DEX's ?

@RogerKeulen

19 күн бұрын

Uhhhm, in a P2P protocol everyone is a node. Thus, think your opponent is already sending his orders to you. In the hope you will put it on the blockchain.

@je9625

12 күн бұрын

What he describes is not applicable on a dex. The closest equivalent for a dex would be scanning the meme pool and front running transactions.

I can’t believe there’s alpha in option-selecting trades. Sometimes I wish there were better uses of our time than this kind of bullshit. I wonder how many robots it will take to remove alpha. At what point are markets perfectly priced?

JESUS loves you so much and may you receive HIS Comfort and feel HIS love, and just know that the darker our situation the lighter HE shines, if you believe in HIM and turn from your sins, you will be saved, if you have not.

@olupotdeogracious9192

4 күн бұрын

Amen be love's you too 😅

physical layer in OSI is not the copper wires wtf are you saying bro

@RogerKeulen

19 күн бұрын

Uhmm, yes it is. CAT-6 cable for example and the connectors are physical. _In the seven-layer OSI model of computer networking, the physical layer or layer 1 is the first and lowest layer: the layer most closely associated with the physical connection between devices. The physical layer provides an electrical, mechanical, and procedural interface to the transmission medium. The shapes and properties of the electrical connectors, the frequencies to transmit on, the line code to use and similar low-level parameters, are specified by the physical layer._

yo Jesus what do you think about gambling ? is it possible to get an edge on these markets ? cheers my saviour

Hilarious

TCP does't work this way.

@User-gj1ub

18 күн бұрын

Yes it does nerd

Lmao find an edge and they patch it

It does not work like this. Watch Terrance Howard, he shows how this really works.

Bro relax it’s just osi every one knows

before listening i can answer your title question: i would bet that ZERO quant made billions using cheese. haha. nonsense. there are only two ways quants make money: 1. mainly by front-running your orders. and 2. sometimes with arbitrage. both are extremely simple and involve zero risk. quant crooks like Citadel end up with positive trading gain 245 days out of 250 trading days... and it does not involve TCP/IP. your cheese model is not being smart, it's being a crook. but devs have zero ethics so you don't know.

@shaikhmubin02

17 күн бұрын

Are you a quant trader ?

Your hand writing needs work and you need to say less