The story was better in the regular games. The gameplay improved in the Ultra games.

@SuperNerdDaniel

4 жыл бұрын

I absolutely agree with that -- like I said in the intro, most things outside of the story were improved in the Ultras compared to Sun/Moon, but for some reason, the story took a big step backwards.

@SteveCrafts2k

4 жыл бұрын

@@SuperNerdDaniel You said it youself: NECROZMA.

@aprilhippie8752

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah it’s a shame that they couldn’t give us both they sacrificed the story for better gameplay

@redjirachi1

Жыл бұрын

Perfectly balanced: like all things should be

Oh my god YES. Thank you so much for making this point - I feel like so many people completely miss out on the abuse of Lillie's story that they don't notice what's missing in USUM. I cried twice in Sun and Moon because I saw so much of myself in Lillie and her situation. To get rid of that is only to validate those who think Lillie is just an helpless little girl and a nuisance.

Oh Lillie, why did USUM trade you in exchange for Hau She was just SO much more interesting as a character...

@LeahLovesNature

6 жыл бұрын

Or "Por que no los dos?" Why couldn't they both be their best selves in this version? Again, I feel the need to plug the story I'm working on, in which I try to make all main characters their best selves by the end.

@renegade6578

6 жыл бұрын

they could have EASILY kept things, the same, even if Necrosma was going to steal the show, it didn't mean Lillie's entire arc had to be wasted

@SuperNerdDaniel

6 жыл бұрын

Right? This might sound a bit convoluted, but bear with me -- I think we could've easily done the Aether arc essentially as it was in the originals, including the Mother Beast Lusamine battle (and maybe have it be an actual boss fight this time, I dunno, maybe that's wishful thinking), and keep it roughly the same, up until the point in the aftermath where everyone's back at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone and chit-chatting about all of this crazy shit that went down, maybe start a bit of the conversation where it looks like Nebby wants to battle the player and join their team -- but THEN you could have Necrozma bust in and get into it with Nebby instead, and force the fusion/steal its light/what-have-you, and go with the major events of the Necrozma arc from there.

@renegade6578

6 жыл бұрын

If it went the way you said, and kept the game the same way up until Necrozma's interruption... Making it like a part two to Ultra games make it feel more complete, instead of it being an anime that had a time crunch... *Also, good luck on that whole Lusamine becoming a boss instead of a normal battle, it would be "Too Violent."*

@Bezaliel13

3 жыл бұрын

@@SuperNerdDaniel : "They Changed It, Now It Sucks." My response: "Ultra was a reboot, reboots *should not* be the same as the original, and you clearly did not get that back then. Hppe that changed."

I definitely felt that Lillie's character arc felt... off in USUM, same with Lusamine and Gladion. You really hit the nail here with why that was.

US/UM should've been direct sequels.Imagine Lillie guiding a new player throughout their journey,with a full team based off her time in Kanto,except for the mascot Legendary,who is of course nicknamed Nebby.And then an new Ultra Beast conflict,not involving Nihilego,occurs,and Lillie can occasionally mention an friend's journey in Alola,and perhaps commenting on how Nebby is similarly drawn to your new character. Anyways,during the conflict,the whole Necrozma thing is what caps it off,except Ultra Necrozma isn't buffed up like it is the normal thing,and you have to face someone who apparently leads the Ultra Recon Squad,and he uses Naganandel and Ultra Necrozma,but frees Nebby after he's defeated because it's a Pokémon game. Then,the player goes on their normal journey,perhaps assuming they'll face the previous protagonist,only to face Champion Hau.After defeating Hau and claiming the title of Champion,Hau will reveal that his Rival gave him the title so his Rival could go to Hoenn and train some more.Lillie can show up and imply that the old protagonist will be returning to reclaim their title from the new protagonist. Cue the Rainbow Rocket post-game.

@qwmx

Жыл бұрын

Once again, the pokemon company was either too lazy or uncreative when they thought about doing sequels, but considering Black and White 2 were sequels, I suspect more it's their laziness that lead them shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to storytelling.

“Sure, Necrozma was out to steal all the light in Alola, but I didn’t know he was also taking the characterization too!” You sir have officially gained one extra follower for this amazing video, and that ending line alone! Congrats!

@SuperNerdDaniel

Жыл бұрын

Haha, thank you! Glad someone got a kick out of that line, haha. Don't be shy about checking out my more recent stuff! Admittedly I've been on a short (unintended) hiatus, but I swear I'll get back in the saddle soon!

Nearly 4 years ago since Ultra Sun and Moon came out and I decided to replay the gen 7 games to see if they held up. Aside from the large amount of tutorials, I had a lot of fun with Sun and Moon, but it wasn't until I played Ultra Sun and Moon that I realized how much Lillie's story carried the game for me. Lillie and Gladion were two kids that ran away from an abusive mother, but the Ultra games imply that Lusamine was more an absent mother busy with research and work, but not necessarily abusive and still provided for them. Which makes Lillie's and Gladion's attitude toward Lusamine a little exaggerated and unfair to a degree. I still like Ultra Sun and Moon, but if I'm ever revisiting the Alola Region, it's going to be the original Sun and Moon games, it just had the better story. I wish that they made ultra sun and moon sequels rather than improved versions and that Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee could have been the story of Lillie's Journey in Kanto.

@SuperNerdDaniel

2 жыл бұрын

I would've really liked that approach, actually -- it'd be a perfect excuse to visit the Kanto region yet again in Let's Go (despite them already having gotten remakes and tons of fanservice callbacks in the past -- which makes sense given it's arguably the most marketable Generation) while also allowing us to see the follow-up to Lillie's story as she takes the first real steps towards becoming a proper Trainer.

@EmeralBookwise

2 жыл бұрын

Wow,, Let's Go, but with Lilly as the protagonist... maybe with Gladion as a counterpart so the games could still have the standard male/female option... yeah, I'd love to live in that alternate world. That said, Pokémon is pretty hooked on their blank slate protagonists that players can just project themselves onto, and Lilly's journey of self-discovery would have way too much backstory baggage for that... especially since a big part of Let's Go was to appeal to lapsed fans brought back in by Go, who wouldn't have the same love for Lilly those of us that actually played Sun/Moon do.

@rich355

2 жыл бұрын

@@EmeralBookwise I don't necessarily think that Lillie has to be the protagonist, but rather she could play your rival in the main story. Her story in the original Sun and Moon was building her confidence by confronting her mother. Ultra Sun and Moon, and the future material have since transformed Lusamine more into a tragic hero character, which feels like a weird way of retconning a lot of Lillie's development. The Pokemon Let's Go games could have continued from the original Sun and Moon story, and have focused on making the story of Lillie learning to protect herself and others. The arc seems fitting as Lillie originally went to Kanto to get help for mother, and throughout the original story, the player is the one that has to protect Lillie throughout the story, and while she does grow to become more independent and brave, she does always have the player nearby to help her regardless. The Let's Go games could have really made use of the fact that Lillie has much to learn as a trainer, but she's willing to do so. This is in more of an idyllic world of course. However, you are right, Let's go was primarily made to appeal to the Pokemon Go fans and bringing back older fans who previously left the franchise, so this idea is more of missed potential in my opinion.

@EmeralBookwise

2 жыл бұрын

@@rich355: fair points all around. I probably jumped to the idea of Lilly as the playable protagonist just because I like her so much and would have been excited at a game entirely focused around her. I would maybe say Lilly is also to sweet to be the rival, but let's face it "rivals" just ain't what they used to be. Even the Let's Go games replaced the og snarky jerk that was Oak's grandson with Trace who was explicitly marketed as a _friendly rival._

@rich355

2 жыл бұрын

@@EmeralBookwise Lillie is too sweet to be the douche rival, but she could take a Wally type role of the series. I actually think that Lillie and one rival who is a bit jerky would help this theoretical story. This rival could serve the purpose of being similar to Bede from Sw&Sh by trying to shatter Lillie and the player's confidence. The player is obviously stronger than the rival, but Lillie actually loses to this jerky rival and has some self doubt for a portion of the game. I think Let's Go could have probably could have ended Lillie's arc in a more satisfying way and perhaps have lead to Ultra Sun and Moon being sequels rather than a third version.

I'm glad I played Sun and Moon, it felt so fresh at the time, I kept up with updates leading up to the game, the environments were great, basing it off Hawaii was super cool, getting rid of HM's was fantastic, and Alolan forms was such a good idea! The storytelling, I think, is so good, and there's no better example of the rich connection to the characters than when Lillie gives you the Legendary and you're allowed to rename them, I have never seen someone name them anything other than Nebby on a first playthrough.

Five years later and I’m still salty that they removed that exeggutor island scene. One of my favorite scenes in the original game and even in Pokémon in general and they just said “Nope! You can’t have that anymore, we have Necrozma! Don’t you loooooove Necrozma? Isn’t he just soooo cool?” Makes me mad.

@SuperNerdDaniel

9 ай бұрын

Right? Such a pivotal scene for the development of Lillie and Lusamine's dynamic, and Lillie's character arc in general, but nah, apparently we can't have that in this alternate universe.

@ZoruaMaster

6 ай бұрын

If that wasnt enough as a further slap to the face they even had the gall to have that rando guy who accompanies you to the island in place of Lillie say "My skirt got wet lol"

The thing that bothers me is... Where Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon made improvements, other Pokémon games are still better. Whereas the one area Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon ruined (the story) is what made Sun and Moon stand out from other Pokémon games.

The Ultras seem to have changed Lusamine to where she was never infected by Nihilego.Which only makes the pieces of cruelty that remain worse.

@jaydenc367

4 жыл бұрын

I disagree she doesn't need to be affected by toxins to be evil and cruel but without it her being good feels less rushed when it happened

@bunnybird9342

6 ай бұрын

Nihilego's toxins don't change people. It only brings out their desires. Which means that Lusamine was always abusive to begin with, but Nihilego's toxins only made her worse.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought this pair of games messed with the whole Aether family story arc

@SuperNerdDaniel

6 жыл бұрын

Right? It's such a pivotal, important factor in the Alola games' overall themes that I'm baffled as to how it could've been botched so badly. If the Ultras were Sun and Moon's Emerald or Platinum, then they basically just had to copy-paste it over and maybe tweak certain things **slightly**, not punch a bunch of holes in it to make room for Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad.

@TeaganBAllen

6 жыл бұрын

Super Nerd Daniel And they couldn't even get the ultra recon squad right after taking out most if what made Sun and Moon's story so good. Their whole story seemed pretty weak in comparison

@SuperNerdDaniel

6 жыл бұрын

I think the dumbest thing is that Ultra Megalopolis was, as many people feared, just one small-ass area with the tower with Ultra Necrozma in it. There were no buildings to go in, no new areas to explore, no new people to talk to, nothing to learn about the people there, NOTHING.

@r.j.penfold

6 жыл бұрын

Super Nerd Daniel that part sucked ass.

@firenze6424

5 жыл бұрын

+Super Nerd Daniel gladion was ruined too he went from failure of a brother trying to protect null and his sister to idiot who ran away for no reason whatsoever

Other points I didn't mention/delve into too much in the video: * On the subject of Lusamine not having the same twisted, delusional maternal complex she had towards the Ultra Beasts in the Ultras as in regular S/M, one such example of this is the immediate aftermath of the fight with Nihilego at Aether Paradise. In Sun and Moon, after confirming she needs to get "that Pokemon" back (Cosmog), she declares that she'll find that creature again, and that "I will love it!" with a rather sinister look on her face, before going back to her friendly facade to see off the player and Hau. However, in the Ultras, after confirming she needs Cosmog back, the Ultra Recon Squad shows up and Lusamine is just like, "Oh, you know, we'll be ready if that thing or Necrozma shows up". And the Nihilego incident is pretty much NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN, despite Nihilego specifically being so crucial to the change in personality and mental state that ultimately tore her family apart in the first place. * With the incident with Mohn not even really brought up at all in the Ultras (in regular Sun/Moon, you could talk to Gladion at Aether Paradise about it in the post-game), as well as Lusamine's obsession with Nihilego being basically made moot, it's rather surprising (read: ridiculous) that the Ultras got a cutscene wherein a still-amnesia-ridden Mohn visits the Aether Paradise and has something of a bittersweet reunion with Lusamine, wherein she and Mohn have a nice conversation about how Aether Paradise and the Poke Pelago both help Pokemon in need of care, before Lusamine accepts that Mohn doesn't remember her or her family and learns to let him go. * Without the scene on Exeggutor Island where Lillie talks about the time her mother ran out to get her in the rain -- which includes a mention of Lusamine allowing Lillie to sleep in her bed with her afterwards when they both got sick -- the aftermath of the battle with Lusamine in the Aether Paraside has less impact. It's such a small scene, but still one affected by the change in their dynamic -- in the originals, Lillie says she wants to sleep in her mom's bed one last time, perhaps trying to recapture some of the good memories she had from that day with her mother in the rain, whereas in the Ultras, Lillie still wants to sleep in Lusamine's bed in the post-battle scene, but simply to "try and understand what her mother might've been thinking". Again, it just doesn't hold the same weight there. * In the endgame of the regular Sun/Moon storyline, the reason that Lillie goes to Kanto is to help Lusamine get better and to help herself become a stronger person by starting a Pokemon journey, but in the Ultras, it's Gladeon that leaves on the boat, because...he wants to train in Kanto and Johto? I get that this is likely so that he can get stronger with Silvally in order to challenge the new Champion (the player) and he doesn't need to be the acting President of the Aether Foundation since Lusamine is able to fulfill her duties in the Ultras, but this is just another thing Lillie is robbed of -- the chance to go somewhere new, start fresh, for both her mother and herself, and to give herself the chance to grow even more than she had during the journey she had with the player, all so that Gladeon can gain a few more levels for a Pokemon League battle that we all know he'll ultimately lose.

@r.j.penfold

6 жыл бұрын

Super Nerd Daniel well damn. I've never thought of it that way, but that's probably because I didn't care much about the changes. Lillie was still Lillie to me.

@jaydenc367

4 жыл бұрын

in ultra's postgame you do see them develop together more postgame only point I agree with is the island scene

@___________1876

2 жыл бұрын

Adding onto your Gladion points, Gladion's entire arc was about learning how to acknowledge that he needs help and learning to rely on others and taking responsibility for his mother and sister. In SM, we see him become fully integrated into the player's friend group and takes control of the Aether Paradise, we see him fulfill his character arc. In USUM, he goes off on an adventure alone, which goes against most of this development.

Y'know, if I've gotta be honest, this is exactly why I _don't_ like the Ultra games. Say what you will about what they did for the gameplay: more pokemon, more side quests, etc., ... But you wanna know why Sun's still my favorite gen 7 game _and_ my favorite Pokemon game in general? Because the story and characters were so much more developed and interesting than anything I'd seen out of the series _possibly_ barring Mystery Dungeon, and nowhere was this more evident than with Lillie's arc. When I first played Sun, Lillie and Lusamine were tied for my favorite characters in the entire series, and that still holds true a year later, but only in Sun. In the Ultra games? They basically just said "Yeah, Lillie's cool and all, but HEY GUYS CHECK OUT THIS BADASS LIGHT DRAGON!!1" This is gonna sound super fucking petty of me, but it's gotten to the point where out of all the pokemon in existence, Necrozma's the only one I actually feel dirty about liking because of what GF sacrificed in order to give it the spotlight. Sorry for the rant. I've been going through some difficult times recently with college and shit, and because of that, things that I would normally find disappointing at worst have been stressing me out a lot more than they probably should. In fact, maybe that's why the Ultra games stung so much for me; playing through Sun was one of the last good experiences I had during high school. And here I am getting emotional over Pokemon. Fan-fucking-tastic.

@LeahLovesNature

6 жыл бұрын

Wow. I guess it's appropriate, then, that in my story, the Necrozma character is practically that world's version of the Devil. And when the main character goes to the Underworld to fight it, she finds the ghost of the Lusamine character (who died after the big battle in the previous book), who spent nearly a year suffering in torment as punishment for the way she treated her children. She begs the main character to find a way to bring her spirit back so she can make it up to them, and she actually earns their forgiveness by the end (I mean, they did have a year without her to think things through).

@r.j.penfold

6 жыл бұрын

Diamond Falcon it's just a coping mechanism due to stress, don't feel guilty about the things outside your control. Focus on the things inside your control that you can change.

@firenze6424

5 жыл бұрын

Cyrus is still my favorite villain he was a true sociopath

@jaydenc367

4 жыл бұрын

I've already explained how I disagree with lillie and lusamine being worse and how there overall better usum are still my favorite pokemon games

@bubblecoffee7210

3 жыл бұрын

@@firenze6424 Coming back to this after 2+ years but as someone who grew up with sinnoh, I think Cyrus is...fine. He's one of the few pokemon villains I actually respect cause unlike Lysandre or more recently Rose, the game makes it clear that he's out for himself and doesn't try to excuse his actions under the pretense of "oh, he did what he did for the ''''greater good.''''" My problem with him is just that I find him kinda boring to talk to and while him trying to unmake reality was scary in concept, it wasn't really that different in execution from what Archie, Maxie, and Lysandre did. I think villains like Ghetsis and Lusamine work better for me cause of how they interact with the other characters, and because Cyrus is the only truly deep character in sinnoh, you just don't get that with him.

In my opinion US/UM could totally have this necrozma subplot after the lillie and lusamine confront in the ultra beast verse, but i guess so gamefreak did'nt want one of the best, if so the best character development in all of the franchise in the "2.0 version". meh!

Honestly before I watched this video I couldn’t see how this was possible. However when I watched the video I completely understand it. Her arc was completely destroyed in ultra sun and ultra moon.

"Lillie...? When did you start getting so beautiful?" Me: *Cries*

ngl so many people fall into the last category of Lillie, craving love from a parental figure who is toxic and overjoyed when they get even a little of it. In that respect, while it was unsatisfying and most likely unintentional, I can respect that aspect of the story for its realism.

THANK YOU! I felt like I was the only person ever to feel this, but clearly not!

@shahnazbegum1725

4 жыл бұрын

Entity Mays yeah they should have Lillie as your rival and battle you as champion and have her own theme

They improved everything else, made it easier to get get BP that isn't called the fucking tree that shall not be mentioned by name, made SOS battles less bullshit, extra side-quests, expanded on the lore (sorta), TRR (even though I thought how it was handled was disappointing, I still enjoyed the ride)and they even gave us new Pokemon, but they some how fucked up the aspect that made the originals great in the first place?! *H O W ? !*

I LOVE how you used the word 'sanitised', that's added my lingo now

This is the big reason why the Ultra games should have been sequels like B2W2. So the wouldn’t have had ruin one of my favorite characters in all of Pokémon with a crappy rewrite

They totally ruined Lillie's character in ultra sun and moon. She is probably my favorite pokemon character. I just felt a very deep emotional connection to her. The emotional abuse Lillie faced is very close to what I faced from my own mother. I honestly felt like it was like I was looking in a mirror at some points. I faced constant of verbal abuse, manipulation, gaslighting and guilting. She hasn't changed. She doesn't want to change because she doesn't think she has ever done anything wrong. One odd parallel to Lillie and myself is that her mother made her wear only the clothing that she chose for her. She would get angry if she wore anything else. If I tried to go out outside of what my mother's general range of clothing choices for me or had her deal of approval she would get angry at anything that deviated. She would insult you, talk down to you and say you were a freak. Lillie's final confrontation with her mother felt very emotional for me. I actually cried when you hear Lusamine finally acknowledge her daughter for the first time by saying "Lillie when did you become so beautiful?". It was so bittersweet for me. I was happy for her character and it felt so heart warming. I was a little depressed because thay sort of thing never happened with my mom and I. It probably never will either.

@jaydenc367

4 жыл бұрын

I disagree partly since in the original game the ending felt rushed in ultra it shows lusamine slowly becoming a better person

@SteveCrafts2k

4 жыл бұрын

@@jaydenc367 with what? Letting Lillie work for her? Is that all it takes to redeem herself? No. If anything, USUM rushed them for the sake of Necrozma.

@jaydenc367

4 жыл бұрын

@@SteveCrafts2k they didn't really show lusamine slowly turning good like they did in usum lusamine doesn't really even try to redeem herself in original unlike usum

@SteveCrafts2k

4 жыл бұрын

@@jaydenc367 because she was affected by neurotoxins. That was the defining trait of her obsession with ultra Beasts, and the reason she's more abusive. In usum, it made her less of a tragic villain and more of a douchebag. In SM, she was taken with Lillie to Kanto in order to be cured, so that eventually, everything can work out. Even gladion was affected. In the original, he ran away from home just to protect Silvally, and to hopefully become strong enough to protect Lillie. In usum however, Lusamine wasn't as much of the tragic antagonist, so it made Gladion someone who ran away to be this emo powerful guy.

@BrassFeline

4 жыл бұрын

I’m just glad you were able to emotionally connect to a character like this. I personally don’t like her but this shows why she’s somewhat of a good model

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I've actually been disappointed in myself for having not even played Ultra Sun past the intro since I bought it when it was released. After watching this, I'm kind of glad I never played through it. Lillie's journey and development was my favorite thing about Sun and Moon. Come on, Pokemon. You can do better than this. Also, this shit is getting a little outrageous. I'm not a genwunner by any means but these Ultra Beasts and Ultra Space and Ultra Wormholes and holy crap, what even is Pokemon anymore? I love Pokemon for the well-designed creatures, beautiful landscapes, battles, characters and the usually fantastic storytelling. As much as I love and will probably always love Pokemon, I just think things are getting a bit out of hand.

@timothyroehm4307

5 жыл бұрын

heroscomeback :Your lost idiot.

There could have been an easy way to make this not so bad. Make it so in the Ultra timeline Lusamine was the one who disappeared, and while her husband stayed in Alola to run Aether and raise Lillie and Gladion.

@justinschultzyschultz9245

3 жыл бұрын

Seeing this comment 2 years late... but, dang what a good idea. Flesh out Mohn's backstory instead of sacrificing Lusamine's.

@ZoulStar

3 жыл бұрын

Huh, I never thought of that up until now. That’s a really good idea.

@BladeMasterIcarus

2 жыл бұрын

@@ZoulStar its a great idea frankly not a whole lot would have to change asset wise just give Lusamine a new character model to use for the Poké Pelago since she's not doing much storyline wise, and give Lusamine's husband, Mohn a lab coat for the Aether Foundation. In this reality Lillie never had to grow up with a toxic parent in her mother Lusamine and effectively gives writers a relatively clean slate for Lilie's character. Nebby could be the center of mohn's research into finding a way to safely travel into ultra space and explore it. For sake of the storyline we could have Lillie be the antagonist that pulls the story forward, since establishing the ultra recon squad or necrozma as a threat early on. We could still have Necrozma mentioned throughout the story but for the bosses instead of totem pokemon we could have Ultra beast boss fights one for each island, ultimately building up to the encounter with necrozma. The ultra recon squad could still have a role of basically trying to contain and eliminate the invasive ultra beast from this reality. though thats just one mans take one what might make an interesting outline for a better USUM storyline. Tell me your guys thoughts when you read this.

Dude these videos have so been missed

Yes. Yes! YES! Thank you so much for making this point. If they had just gotten this one part right, US/UM would be the unquestionable superior to Sun/Moon. When I first watched a play-through of Ultra Sun and saw how this aspect was changed, something felt really off about it, and you put it into words better than I ever could. I'm glad there is someone else who takes the time to appreciate the stories of the games they love as much as I do.

Yeah I agree that the original SM games handle Lillie’s characters much better then USUM.

@thatguygengar

5 жыл бұрын

FUCK LILLY IN ALL 4 GAMES CAUSE LILLY IS ANNOYING ASF!!!!

THANK FUCKING CHRIST SOMEONE SAID IT. My favorite part of Sun/Moon is that you don't play as the main character. You play as the main character's best friend. That's what makes it so powerful. And when you take that away and shoehorn in yet another "ooh big scary dark legendary is threatening the world! :0" it ruins so, so much. Fuck USUM.

Sun and Moon were unfinished, but it had a good story. Ultra Sun and Moon were finished, but had a less impactful story. They could've had both, like Platinum or Black and White. But when it comes to Pokemon, Nintendo thinks lowly of their consumer. They've stopped making their games as stories, and now they're focused on making games as consumable generic media.

@SuperNerdDaniel

6 жыл бұрын

It's like I said, so many parts of US/UM were better than S/M, but the plot is where so much of it falls flat. It's like they thought they could ONLY put the spotlight on the Necrozma stuff, but they remembered, "Oh wait, people liked Lillie and Lusamine" so they put SOME of it in, but they thought there wasn't enough room to do both to their full potential (even though I think there totally was). Hau got to be a more interesting character in the Ultras, but did that have to come at the expense of both Lillie AND Lusamine?

@grandarkfang_1482

6 жыл бұрын

Super Nerd Daniel They should've just put USUM on the Switch if they were going to have this trouble. But they wanted it to be "the last Pokemon game on the 3DS" as if that means anything.

@firenze6424

5 жыл бұрын

Plus they split the defenitive version into 2 games for more money

@firenze6424

5 жыл бұрын

+Firenze 64 atleast in unova they were sequels

@jaydenc367

4 жыл бұрын

why would it being on the switch change anything? it wouldn't im glad it was on the 3ds also nintendo doesn't MAKE the games and normally the pokemon comoany orders gamefreak around

I only played ultra sun and was not aware of the downside. what a bizarre change to make.

I feel like y'all have changed my opinion on the USUM games and now I feel like I'd rather eat my own hands than play US again. Damn it. I loved the game and didn't think anything of it because I was too enthralled with the story, so I barely noticed the changes. On top of that, I prefer antagonists that aren't just sitting in that black area of the moral compass. I prefer ones that have a fair point, not "eww y'all are peasants time to summon Satan and destroy the world because I'm a selfish dick." Which is probably why I like Lusamine in US better. Other than that, I was a bit disappointed with the fact the Looker quests are gone and how the Ultra Wormhole motion controls work and how small an area the Mega place was or whatever, but I wasn't too disappointed story wise.

@r.j.penfold

6 жыл бұрын

I see your point. Bruh I agree. I still like USUM though.

@jaydenc367

3 жыл бұрын

I feel the plot was better really...also you can change the controls for the ultra wormholes

As someone who doesn’t really care about difficulty and collecting stuff in video games I do dislike USUM entirely because of what they did to the family trio, that was the only thing I actually cared about in the games. I forgot if hau had his character arc in the original games but if not then that is the moment I actually started liking hau.

@SuperNerdDaniel

Жыл бұрын

Hau's character arc was slightly different in the Ultras (though not nearly to the degree of that of the Aether Family) -- it starts largely the same, but in the end, he ended up taking his Pokémon Training pursuits a little more seriously, eventually being the person you have to fight to become the Champion of Alola (instead of the Professor like in the originals)

I know this videos old but I just happened to play Ultra Moon for the first time and beat it a week or two back but I think you make a really good point. I loved the game but now seeing how it compares to S/M which I never played really does seem like the whole thing was unearned. But maybe if they happen to make a Ultra Sun 2 or something like that they could show that Lusamine isn’t right still or something like that idk just a thought but great video.

I know I'm like almost a year late to this video, but I found it because I was wondering if anyone else had made a video on the subject (I was thinking of making one to talk about my own feelings on it on a personal level if no one else had). You hit a lot of the same points though, so thank you. I'm glad I'm at least not the only one who feels this way about how USUM treated Lillie.

ayyy i've missed your videos glad your back, really enjoyed this one :D

... yeah I got nothing. XD AMAZING video dude, dat editing too Kreygasm

Idc I still love the story of the originals better. They’re the only Pokémon game that made me cry at the end. Another reason why original Lillie is better

Did someone else notice that lillie tried to confess to the main character in the game and that ots not in ultra sun or moon i liked the Extra content and more gameplay and stuff but i hate how they changed lillie as a character

Let's not forget how she throws away Nebby's safety after all of this, saying that Necrozma needs Nebby's light to sustain itself... even though Necrozma is a dangerous monstrosity that has shown that it is clearly power-hungry. But no, it deserves *forgiveness* for almost ruining *two* worlds, even at the detriment of a Pokemon she cares deeply about. Really, the whole problem with Lillie in Ultra Sun & Moon can be summed up as he being *too forgiving.*

@firenze6424

5 жыл бұрын

Though in necrozmas case wasn’t he just trying to return light to ultra space also another plot hole the recon team already had solgaleo/Lunala so why was they’re light gone?

I’m just glad something happens between Lillie and her mom. Plus Lillie stays in Alola to be your partner. That’s rewarding.

This is why I think it would’ve been a better idea if Gamefreak went the sequel route with USUM rather than the remake route cos now everything Lillie and Lusamine went through in SM is basically declared null and void lorewise. It would’ve been so much cooler seeing maybe Lillie coming back from Kanto older and stronger and Lusamine all cured and doing better and Lillie could’ve been like a mentor to us the protagonist and then assist us in dealing with Necrozma and they could say like our old protagonist released Solagelgo/Lunala or another Cosmog was born and grew up into Solagelgo/Lunala and then Necrozma gets its hands on it. It would’ve been a much better story and experience if it was a sequel. So yeah SM definitely handle Lillie and Lusamines character arc a hell of a lot better. Yes I am aware that the junior team at Gamefreak worked on this game in fact it’s the only reason I can forgive them for not making USUM a sequel most likely due to the fact they didn’t want to force the juniors to go craft an entire project from scratch so they just gave them SM and told them to remake it so they still had a basis to work with while the main guys worked on the integration to the Switch. What saddens me is that because of this Gen 7 has technically already received a remake so we probably won’t get one again but we can only hope if they do decide to make one for the Switch or whatever new console we’ll have by then they make it a sequel instead

@BladeMasterIcarus

2 жыл бұрын

it probably wasn't a good idea for the junior team to just do a one to one remake. I mean Come on YOU HAVE THE WHOLE POKEMON MULTIVERSE TO WORK WITH STORYWISE and this is the BEST they could come up with!!!! Here's a slightly better pitch for a remaking the game but done it FF7 remake style. lets start with Mohn, Lillie's father, and have him be in charge of Aether Foundation instead of the Poké Pelago. We could easy explain it away as in this reality it was Lillie's mother that was taken away from them by ultra beast instead of Mohn. Lillie in this reality develops a different personality as a result, preferably for the shake of reusing assets, one where she is already a pokemon trainer. The opening cut scene of the game only really needs to change to allow Lillie to escape to ultra space. We could still keep Lillie present throughout the game but as a low key antagonist working together with the ultra recon squad for [insert character motivations here]. For the sake of being consistent with the original sun and moon game we will have Lusamine operate the poké pelago but subtly imply this in not the same Lusamine Lillie lost. Now with all of that backstory and potential storylines done, we only need to expand on the butterfly effect these changes have on character interaction and explore it. There i've taken Lillie family history from SM changed it and removed all forms of abuse from Lillie's character what i assume the devs were trying to do with USUM. We have a leader of the Aether foundation that convincingly has a reason to reason to go to ultra space in Mohn. Mohn probably has on his own quest to get Lillie back home and which would align with the player's goal of stopping the ultra recon squad. The only new assets they need to make for it is a potentially new character model for Lillie wearing ultra recon squad outfit, a new character model for Mohn and Lusamine. Frankly the rest could just be gutting out whatever idea's were unfinished or worse not implemented to make way for the new stuff. devs could even have made guzma an elite 4 member i don't know. I don't know when you'll ever read this but tell me what you think about my ideas.

Was a reason ever given for why they neutered her and her mother’s character development? Because one of the things were Lusamina in sun/moon that made her such an interesting villain was the reveal of the cryo- room. Because she flips it on its head, attributing it to no different than when you put a Pokémon in a box. For me at least this hit, especially hard. Because with the little thing with the Pokédex showing you the evolutionary line when you catch a new Pokémon. It made it very enticing to collect all the Pokémon on each island before you move on. And that’s exactly what I did. I basically raised every single Pokémon I caught in Malee island to level 20 as a start off point to get them to all evolve and then I put them in their box all nice and neat and organized and then I kept going. So when I finally got to her that whole revelation really stung. Ultra Sun /ultra Moon slap a hero complex on her. It really took the teeth out of her Villainy.

@SuperNerdDaniel

2 ай бұрын

I don't know off the top of my head if a reason was ever given for the change aside from the Ultras being marketed as "alternative versions" of the Gen VII stories, and thus changes would have to be assumed in order to make the differences noticeable enough to justify a separate release. But even then, there's ways you could've altered certain aspects of the original without almost completely de-fanging Lusamine. Hell, you could've had the Ultra Recon Squad and Necrozma stuff there, too, just make THAT the post-game story and then have the Rainbow Rocket Episode be a free DLC update sometime after the game comes out.

@Nazo-kage

2 ай бұрын

@@SuperNerdDaniel I think just having the ultra squad showing up periodically to cause issues would’ve been enough. Just the idea of essentially a third evil team causing problems only to find out that this third group is actually testing the main character to see if he’d be strong enough to take on Nacrozma. They could also unintentionally help the other evil teams, cause even more issues. Essentially, they could’ve added more to their characters without needing to subtract from other characters. Even just them initially showing up could’ve caused more ultra beasts to show up new ones who weren’t as strong as the ones you know from the original game. And the really aggravating thing is the only two new ultra beast are version exclusive. Now I wouldn’t mind that, if they just added one thing. A battle with one of the ultra squad members using the other ultra beast Pokémon because then you can go on the trader system and ask for it. So you can get the the other version exclusive Pokémon.

You right

thx for the recap i only played Ultra ver

@SuperNerdDaniel

2 жыл бұрын

No problem! Honestly, you should give vanilla Sun and Moon a shot if you can at some point (or maybe just watch somebody's Let's Play if you can't get them for yourself), if only for the story. Like I said in the video, a lot of aspects of the Ultras were better than the originals, but the story (namely as it pertains to Lillie/Lusamine) was better handled in the originals.

I played the Ultra version right after the regular version and I remembered that I was so mad that the game said the boat to Exeggutor Island was not enough for two : GameFreak could exchange a match with Kukui to give you a Champion match with Hau, which made him well-developed in the Ultra. However, yeah from how I feel, Hau's character development can't compensate for Lilie's character development cut.

@SuperNerdDaniel

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I feel like cutting the scene on Exeggutor Island where Lillie talks about how her mother used to be (which really helps develop the mother-daughter dynamic between the two) was one of the most detrimental parts of the changes to Ultra's story. Like, without that, we don't get any real idea of who Lusamine was before the neurotoxins brought out the worst of her, which takes away a few of the layers of their dynamic and just hurts both of their arcs.

5:00 all i wanted to change in the ultra remake was to be able to go with her, as a neat post-game thing, but instead we got rainbow rocket. Ultra should've been a direct sequel wherein you go to kanto to find and help Lille.

In my opinion a story a game possesses is a factor that can either make or break the game it isn't present within,and due to the watered down,unjustified,depthless story absent of any essential character development established within it's predecessors,aswell as due to the fact not many people acknowledge said flaws and view it as better in comparison then it's predecessors,,that has rendered these "Ultra" installments as my least favorite Pokemon installments

@bubblecoffee7210

6 жыл бұрын

If it makes you feel any better, it seems like a lot of fans thought Sun & Moon did the story better, myself included.

@captainlastreo5160

6 жыл бұрын

So you like these two games the least of all Pokémon games because of it ignoring the old story in favour of it's own? That's just really pathetic in my opinion.

@bubblecoffee7210

6 жыл бұрын

Well to be fair, the fact that the story USUM went for basically turned out to be a worse version of the one we got a year earlier is pretty disappointing, and while I can't speak for the OP here, it definitely made me question why the fuck the games needed to exist.

@firenze6424

5 жыл бұрын

+Diamond Falcon ( mr krabs voice) money!

@jaydenc367

3 жыл бұрын

story still has depth and characters do develop even more so...if anything the story is better here

I wonder what Game Freak will do with the plot if/when they remake Gen 7 (after they do remakes of DP, BW, and XY, so probably around the year 2034? If the 5 year thing is accurate, so probably not lol)

So, in trying to develop Necrozma, they got rid of Lusamine and Lillie's character arc?

@porzab413

4 жыл бұрын

And Necrozma was developed pretty bad, so this is why I prefer Sun and Moon over Ultrasun/Ultramoon

@SuperNerdDaniel

4 жыл бұрын

They didn't get rid of it, they just took out parts and elements seemingly at random and replaced them with stuff having to do with the Ultra Recon Squad and Necrozma, when it actually hurt *both* to do it that way -- it obviously destroyed the key factors of Lillie and Lusamine's character dynamic, as I spoke about in the video, but because the Ultra Recon Squad and Necrozma were trying to fight for space and screentime with what was left of said storyline, neither of them were really given proper development time, either. The Ultras really should've just been a sequel, with the focus being primarily on Necrozma, while you can have some sort of redeption/atonement arc for Lusamine happening as a B-plot, so that a scene of Lillie and Lusamine reconciling would make a lot more sense because you could properly build toward it, as well as have the foundation of the events from the original Sun/Moon storyline (and hopefully the reconciliation wouldn't happen OFF-SCREEN).

Everyone here keeps saying that the Ultra games should’ve been sequels, when honestly Necrozma could’ve easily been the post game where you join Looker and Anabel with the Ultra Beasts(catching them like in vanilla) but more wormholes start popping out to the point it becomes to much to handle. Then the Ultra Recon Squad can come and assist with you three and tie into the plot with Necrozma, with how Necrozma is going haywire, going through dimensions so we have to wormhole travel and stuff to stop it or our world may collapse on itself. As for Rainbow Rocket, we can tie it back to Necrozma with Giovanni wanting it for his own plans of further world domination. Getting the other box legendary, all he needing is Necrozma. So basically keeping it the same, but like you have to track him down via wormholes till you find a pocket dimension he created, thanks to abusing the opposite box legendary dimensional powers. Having to infiltrate inside and so and so forth. But that’s just me. :/

forgot to mention the exegutor island cutscene

Now I'm sad since I ended up playing the ultra games first just cause that's how things ended up. I guess I have a better story to look forward to at least

Lillie hasn't changed a bit of her mother villain You know but unfortunately Lloyd father of Ninjago You know

Absolutely Phenomenal! Every single reason made sense, I 100% agree with you!

Honestly this made me wish for an ultra sun or ultra moon mod where they still have the quality of life changes and additions but keep the Story of Sun and Moon intact rather than the Necrozma bullshit Maybe have Necrozma and the ultra recon squad be post game stuff, i was so mad when i found out i was robbed of a decent story line cus i played ultra moon thinking the story aint changed

@SuperNerdDaniel

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, like I've said to other people, the Ultra Recon Squad stuff could've very easily been its own sequel plot -- like, just remove Lusamine from the equation for most of it, since she'd be recovering from the neurotoxins as of the end of S/M, but maybe she and Lillie come back into the fold at some pivotal story point, and meanwhile Gladion's been trying to keep things together at the Aether Paradise, and then, not only do you have the original Lillie/Lusamine/Gladion story intact leading up to that, but then there's also the potential for exploring the possibility of Lusamine actually having to redeem herself in her children's eyes and prove she can be a real mother to them again, rather than it just being kinda hand-waved completely off-screen like it was in the Ultras.

gladion is such a good charicter

@nikkievans4475

4 жыл бұрын

Aidan Farley we didn’t see enough of him

This is why all of the stuff in ultra sun and moon would have been better off as DLC

THIS. I think Lillie was, and always a great Pokémon character. Lusamine could easily be the best villain because she reminds me so much of my mother, so as much as I loved USUM gameplay wise, I feel like their great character arcs died out in USUM. I hated the fact, and up to this day, seethe towards the erasure of what made Lillie and Lusamine excellent characters in SM because Lusamine in USUM is a great example (not great IRL) of how mothers abuse their role and excuse themselves of the trauma they cause their children because it was "supposedly done out of love" and how they feel they can always get away with it because that's just how mothers are. That was just not it for me. If only they likened their relationship in USUM the way they did in the anime where their story was explained further and was more fleshed-out, then it might not have been so bad. But even then, it's nothing more than a shell of the better storytelling Sun and Moon did.

@SuperNerdDaniel

Жыл бұрын

I haven't been able to give myself the time to watch the Sun/Moon anime, and thus don't have the perspective to make that comparison, so I'll just take your word for it, haha. But yeah, I still feel the same now as I did when I made this -- Lusamine in the Ultras got off WAY too easy and basically decided she was forgiven for abuse that she committed, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of how this should work. Just completely cutting the legs out from both her villainy and Lilly's character development by proxy.

I mean I see your point. Honestly I feel the same but the big plot twist I found amazing was faba was the true villain. So, in this sense, let’s say lusamine was never infected with the toxins but it was faba who was secretly controlling her to take over the foundation with rainbow rocket. That’s why lusamine has been abusive is because faba wanted the legendary to make rainbow rocket easier.

Necrozma: Who needs great story themes and character development when you got me?

A bit late to the party sorry As a guy that really loves gen 7 i think that you are 100% right In my opinion if they just gave us the story of sun moon and after you save lusamine then necrozma shows then this game would be perfect

Thanks for this informative video, i like the Lillie and Lunamine plot and the way you described all the cut content, made me decide not to buy the game

Alternate universes exist in pokemon in this version of the events probably insted of nihilego when mohn got sucked by the utra wormhole and lusamine getting attacked by said nihilego necrozma showed up graged mohn into utra wormhole and lusamine got tramatised (or something like that ) and she wants revenge so yeah the reason that in that reality lusamine wanted to fight necrozma it was for revenge

Ultra sun and Ultra moon had a much better story about Lillie and her mother. Though Lusamine is evil, she had finally learned right from wrong. You shouldn't just take out your anger on your kids just because their father got lost in an ultra wormhole due to a bad experiment. She primarily was looking for how to get him back. Also, family is one of the most important things in life. After all, absolutely no one can choose his/her own family. I'm glad it had a happy ending for Lusamine and Lillie after the battle with Necrozma. I didn't want to see her leave Alola at the end of Sun and Moon. She was my favorite character in the whole game.

OK you convinced me to play the original Pokémon Sun. 😅👏🏻

@SuperNerdDaniel

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly, like I said in the video, the Ultras do many things better than regular Sun/Moon, but given how important story and characters are to me as far as video games go, I couldn't NOT make a video talking about how the Ultras messed that up (at least as far as Lillie and Lusamine are concerned), haha.

@GrahamBessellieu

2 жыл бұрын

@@SuperNerdDaniel Oh, I’m all about story and character development! So, seriously thank you for making this. 🙏🏻

@SuperNerdDaniel

2 жыл бұрын

@@GrahamBessellieu Thank you! :D If you liked this, I've got plenty of other videos analyzing character arcs and story elements of my favorite fictional media here on the channel, so maybe have a look at some of those, if you like!

do the sun and moon games take place before or after the anime?

@SuperNerdDaniel

3 жыл бұрын

The games and the anime are always in completely different timelines/realities, and while the anime may be based on the games, they aren't directly connected to the games at all based on continuity and stuff.

@rbb7555

3 жыл бұрын

@@SuperNerdDaniel good to know. last time I was into Pokémon was back during the 2nd season so its been a min and besides pearl, sword is the latest game I have. well besides Emerald.

@ZoulStar

3 жыл бұрын

@@rbb7555 yeah, the anime and the games are separate; different continuities my dude.

Includes Pokemon Sun and moon anime lack's of Lillie hasn't changed a bit of her mother As well As the ultra sun and ultra moon lacking of Kanto never mentioned By Lillie words shouldn't allow to speak from Kanto region alone As well

Lillies story is so different in the anime

@SuperNerdDaniel

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I've heard as much -- I haven't watched the Sun/Moon anime outside of out-of-context clips, but from what I can tell, it's pretty different, haha

Why can't a good story and good gameplay go hand in hand, this kind of problems happens so much in video games, in black and white 2 it was fine because it wasn't the same game and was a very enjoyable sequel for fans, it's like an higly extended post game for people who loved black and white, there was so much possibility with a sun moon sequel

It's pronounced Loo-sa-mean. no accented E at the end.

@fiftycentbrandkillmonger7060

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@lunad27

3 жыл бұрын

REALLY late response I know but it's technically not a wrong pronunciation- it's how you'd say it in Japanese. It's just different when romanized.

@pindagreat

3 жыл бұрын

@@lunad27 well this video clearly is talking about the English version of the characters. He uses the English versions of the names of the other characters, so lusamine being pronounced how it is in Japanese makes no sense.

This is why I only played Sun and Moon and not the Ultra games and I probably never will Infact those are the only enhanced versions I skipped in the franchise.

the anime sitll worse because after lillie story arc, she just turned back the way she was before like nothing happened

I'm pretty sure that's because ultra sun and Moon is in a different timeline then normal sun and Moon. In the normal timeline we get way more story about lillie and her family. But in the ultra timeline we don't. The reason is probably because in the ultra timeline lusamine wasn't effected by the toxin so she didn't get obsessed with ultra beasts and instead just wanted to get revenge for her husband. And the reason. She still treat's her kids like trash is probably because the lose of her husband did more emotional damage to her in the ultra timeline and like some mom's and Dad's do if something like that happened to them take out there anger on there kids. But I am disappointed that we don't get a lot of character development with Lillie in the ultra timeline. Also another reason could be that gamefreak probably thought that did enough character development in the first version of sun and Moon. Or they just wanted to make the game way more different than the original one's for some reason I don't know. Hope this helps you out.

I think the biggest reason for the change was people complaining about there being too much story. It really feels like they cut down as much story as possible, and added the very minor Necrozma changes. They should of just kept the story the same, and reworked a few elements to feature Necrozma. I hate that so many people complained about how much story the game had, now we may get less in future games.

YES YES YES YES YES!👏👏👏 I 100% Agree! This vid describes EXACTLY my thoughts on why USUM utterly DESTROYED the Aether Fams dynamic!👏 FUCKING...y a s!🥰 Awesome vid ma dude!🥰🥰🥰😘

Perhaps I think they should fix the the new story line with this... I think they should point out that lusamean should be abusive to her kids (I think they left out the toxins) because she was lead to believe that they have to subcome to the influence of some Rocket splinter faction. And was also lead to believe that the monster she wants to fight personally has a special weakness. After she returns from ultra space, she learned that the rocket thing was proven false. Lusamean let her husband live in his amnesia life because she was afraid what he would find out what happened to the children. During the rainbow rocket Arc, it was revealed that the assistant that betrayed her was also responsible false information on the kids as well as the false weakness. In the end lusamean tries to reconcile with her husband by disguised as a drifter looking for a new adventure.

I also wrote a post about this on /r/Pokemon. Goes into detail more, and shares some of my own feelings as well as yours. Made sure to reference you! www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/92ewj3/why_lillie_will_forever_be_my_favorite_pokemon/

@SuperNerdDaniel

5 жыл бұрын

Wow, thanks for the reference there! I never got the notification for this comment initially 'cause it got sent to my "Held for review" tab (probs 'cause of the link), haha.

@Kirvee2

5 жыл бұрын

I can't comment on the Reddit post so I'll comment here, but thank you so much for that post. When I played SM the first time, I felt Seen in a way I almost never get to feel. The way Lusamine was abusive to Lillie is almost exactly how my mom was towards me and my brother (picking our clothes for us and wanting us to look a certain way and all), and when parental abuse is portrayed in media I'm used to only seeing small aspects of my own, but never something that almost fits the whole picture. It's why I latched onto Lillie so quickly and loved her so much all throughout the story. The only thing I wished SM had was more sibling interaction between Gladion and Lillie, because their situation also had very similar beats to me and my brother (getting to leave the house/break free a whole 8 years before me sure feels a lot like how Gladion basically left Lillie alone to deal with Lusamine). And then USUM gave me more of that interaction, but at the cost of everything else that had made Lillie so relatable to me. It's sad.

I honestly am not too disappointed. Okay I was a little disappointed but not to the extent of everyone in the comments saying they dislike the game over it. The only part I was truly disappointed in was that in Team RR, There was no Gen II representatives and no B2W2 Ghetsis with his Kyurem.

@SuperNerdDaniel

6 жыл бұрын

There were no Gen II representatives because Gen II's evil team was also Team Rocket, unless you mean those Admins that took over in Giovanni's place in the remakes (HeartGold and SoulSilver), in which case they wouldn't be included because they did the Rainbow Rocket stuff based on how people were in their original games (hence, we got Ruby and Sapphire's Maxie and Archie instead of the OR/AS versions, Black and White Ghetsis instead of B2/W2 Ghetsis, etc.).

Lillie Is still the villain of her mother As well 👍😒

So Lusamine's supposed to be like Mrs. Coulter? Interesting.

@RayOfTruth

4 жыл бұрын

I like to think of her as a Gendo Ikari type character.

THANK YOU

It's basically just why they shouldn't have made this a duo of special editions but rather their own things. If they wanted to play into Necrozma and the mystery of Ultraspace...then do it! Don't drag a plot into it that has no purpose anymore.

this video was awsome!!! i love gladion

@SuperNerdDaniel

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

I just bought the game to not need to buy a Minifigure for 162USD but i am not that far into the story so i didnt realise that thats so big of a problem. I played moon two times so the better story is still deep in my mind and i hopefully will just reflect (xD) the USUM story... Lillie is such a great character... But i dont want to buy a new Sun game... :(((

@jaydenc367

3 жыл бұрын

you don't have to buy another one as you already own moon right?

But well the best thing is that she is not going away after the story

Lillie should have been the player in pokemon lets go

@SuperNerdDaniel

5 жыл бұрын

That would've been amazing, actually! That would've been a natural continuation of S/M Lillie's arc and actually given players a character to grow and evolve with who they'd already be familiar with. And I think they could've gotten away with a specific main character given that, despite being main series entries, the Let's Go games were both Kanto remakes (the second in the franchise) AND had such different mechanics from other main series entries. A lot of the streamlined/simplified features would make sense for a character that was familiar with the basic concept of Pokemon training but hadn't done it themselves.

@barkn9643

5 жыл бұрын

Well.. there goes an oppertunity

Atleast we get to keep her this time.

I kind of fell off the mainline Pokemon games after how badly Black and White 2's story disappointed me. Couldn't get into XY for reasons unrelated to the game (had a lot going on in my personal life), and hearing that USUM did pretty much the same thing to Lillie and Lusamine that BW2 did to N and Ghetsis just makes me wonder why Nintendo/The Pokemon Company likes kneecapping their powerful stories about emotional abuse so much. Like, BW1 really resonated with me deeply because N reminds me a lot of myself as a kid/teenager, and while I never had anyone _as_ bad as Ghetsis in my life, it's a question of degree and not kind. All the retconning and weird character decisions in BW2 felt to me like they were actively trying to undermine the powerful statements BW1 made; softening the blow by Ghetsis not being his birth father and so on. Thank you for this piece explaining the Lillie and Lusamine situation - it was informative even though I haven't and may never play the Alola games.

@wake6000

3 жыл бұрын

I don't get what you mean though...B2W2 had an absolutely amazing story. N had matured astronomically between the 2 games, and was actively revelling against the very ideals he once sought to achieve because if how one lined they were in the first place. Ghetsis on the other hand is forced to confront his own "son" in order to realise his ideals, which he's left to protect alone again. He's just a delusional man who was throwing one last ditch attempt with a vastly weaker team plasma under him, only to brought down by N and forced to accept the fact that everything he worked was lost long ago, and the evil he did had finally caught up with him.

FUCKING YES! Even though I could hardly keep up with your speaking speed... ^-^;

@SuperNerdDaniel

6 жыл бұрын

LOL, soz. I'm a mouthy fuck, I know.

@CrystalGreymon

6 жыл бұрын

Chill, dude. I kinda get that excitable too. Even if I wonder how you breathe doing this compared to myself who has to stop for breath when I go on for about a minute. Thank the gods I don't make videos. What are your lungs made of?

@SuperNerdDaniel

6 жыл бұрын

Magic.

@CrystalGreymon

6 жыл бұрын

Oh praise thee mighty Mew!

its 4am where i am so a lot of this might not make sense but this is so accurate and im so glad to hear someone saying it! whilst i greatly enjoy ultra sun and moon for its extra features, the most important part of a game for me personally is the story, and watching one of my favourite stories get twisted and turned into this empty hollow-feeling...mess was pretty heartbreaking like dont get me wrong the CONCEPT of necrozma/ultra necrozma and all that is pretty badass, but it didnt fit, and they tried to make it fit by changing the characters core motivations and values and personalities, and stripping away so much, and they just dont feel like the characters we'e come to know and love (or hate) so it just did NOT work at all (which tbh does a disservice to the human characters AND necrozma) what gets me about lusamine is that whilst she doesnt feel.....as evil in the ultra games, she still had pokemon frozen??? she still let the type nulls get made, she still put cosmog through a lot of pain and stress, yet this just gets brushed aside completely and she never has to face consequences for these actions, and her kids suddenly are completely okay with her again, its...almost insulting, like after the rainbow rocket stuff happens, and the player character, lusamine and some others have a giggle about something, they're literally in the cryo room, there's goddamn frozen pokemon right behind them and we're just expected to ignore that? and dont get me started on gladion, like his whole thing in sun and moon was about protecting type null, mirroring the way lillie ran to protect nebby (but have them do so in ultimately different ways) and now its just about him getting stronger? i get he wants to protect lillie and thats part of his motivation, but i feel like type null really got shafted here, and since that was an important part of gladion's story, his character suffered as a result you pretty much nailed everything wrong with how usum handled lillie so i've got nothing to say there but jesus...i cant really forgive ultra sun and moon for stripping the heart of the story just to put in necrozma, when they really should have just done a sequel to handle that stuff

Wow

For lillie's mom please say the hole thing just don't say a at the end

Agree with all except the pronunciation of lusamine LOO SUH MEAN not LOO SAH MII NAY PLEASE HELP MEH

lu sa mi ne i never knew thats how you say it lu sa mi ne lu sa mi ne

@justinschultzyschultz9245

3 жыл бұрын

It's not. Lou Sa Mean.

@strawberryseal1851

3 жыл бұрын

@@justinschultzyschultz9245 Oop, sorry, I meant ne as sounding like n

You forgot the romantic attachment to the player

Do What if TouHou characters were Pokemon trainer

@sumanansuntharamoorthy8612

5 жыл бұрын

Also if you do, do Sakura she is god

They could’ve just kept the story arc but also include Necrozma.

@SuperNerdDaniel

5 жыл бұрын

Some people have suggested that Ultra should've just been a sequel to regular SuMo instead of an "alternate version", and honestly, that would've made SO MUCH MORE SENSE.

@jaydenc367

3 жыл бұрын

for the most part...that's what happened...

That's all I can say