Learning so much from this channel. Mr. Holdener is an asset to the automotive community.

@scotttimpany2845

Жыл бұрын

Millions and millions served!

@Cultofpersonality09129

Жыл бұрын

Yes, Richard has done so much for the car community. He’s squashed a lot of bs that people and manufacturers have tried shoving down peoples throats. He’s into all engines and isn’t biased from one brand to another. He just shows the data.

@brandongibson85

Жыл бұрын

We must protect this man at all costs lol thanks for the info Mr Holdener

@GeorgeGriffith-vf4tl

8 ай бұрын

​@@brandongibson85Yes!!! Lock him in a dingy little cell on the a 200 year old cellblock in and toss him a few junkyard engines a Dyno and misc. Extras and record everything he says and does.

@kevinwest3689

6 ай бұрын

I Revisit these videos, After reading your comment I had a funny thought. If the goid comments i've given and other people to richard, went to his head in the form of hair, he would be the Lead singer of twisted sister by now.😁

The results of this test were very (AND pleasantly!!) surprising! Much money to be saved upgrading valve springs, THOUGH fresh springs on an older engine are always a good idea.

When I think back on what cam and intake I was going to put in my L59 im SO GLAD I found this channel first. This channel just proves that research is critical before you make performance choices 👍🇺🇲

@nocturnalspecialties642

Жыл бұрын

You would be amazed at how many guys put too big of a camshaft in engines. I see it everyday. Too big of a cam and too tight of a stall almost every time.

@DM-qp7do

Жыл бұрын

@@nocturnalspecialties642 When I was 18 I had a 69 El camino with a 350, I don't remember the numbers but it was a ridiculously huge cam and a 750 dual feed Holey. I had 2.73 gears and it wasn't happy unless I was in low gear and up around 4 grand. So I lost a ton of bottom end with super tall gears and a carb that was way too big. Never again

@nocturnalspecialties642

Жыл бұрын

@@DM-qp7do Haha. I know that had to be a hard lesson learned. I get kids all the time bringing a truck to the shop wanting it tuned. Only to find out they have put a 227/237 LS3 type cam in a 4.8 with a "trailblazer" converter. And expect it to be 550hp like the LS3 would have been.

@DM-qp7do

Жыл бұрын

@@nocturnalspecialties642 Kids today want the lumpy cam idle more than they want horse power. It just takes life experience and owning a few vehicles before they will learn.

@catherineharris4746

Жыл бұрын

Yes!👍

Thanks for all you do!! Every time someone wants to argue I just send them to your vids!!!

Thank you so much… I’ve read forums about different lift but never had dyno proof back to back 🙏🏾

Dude, exactly what I needed. Ordered the TN NSR. Thanks so much for the vids you do.

Amazing. Exactly what I didn't expect to happen. Great stuff! I thought the lift would be worth more power everywhere

This was a great idea for a topic/experiment! Info benefits all kinds of car guys. 👍

More surprising results. I sure would have guessed there would be more difference than that with the lift change. I’m always learning something new here. Thanks again.

One of my favorite videos, answers the question on lift for me. I don't need high lift or more wear for a nominal hp difference.

@Richard Holdener ... You have proven Duration & LSA are what really matter. I feel More average Lift is helpful but doesn't have as much of an impact. Thank you for all the testing, it is VERY HELPFUL & informative in decision making. Thank you for all you do!

Thanks for always putting in work Richard.

Im a learner before a money burner. Good work as always.

Awesome I did my first cam swap Friday with the truck norris nsr after you answered a few questions for me I appreciate what you do man only took me 5 hours in the truck I'm quite proud thanks again

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

Glad I could help

I have the BTRNSR cam on my LH6 5.3 and man what a difference. Definitely recommended for your daily driver

Thanks for testing!!! Absolutely love this channel

Looks like BTR is really doing their homework! Great comparo video, Richard! These cams seem to be aimed at the 5.3. How would they compare to the 459/469 cams on a bored-out 5.3 (5.7) or a 6.0. I know they aren’t as common, but I managed to stumble onto a 6.0. Now I just need to get it running!

Thank you for all your hard work. Can you please include factory cam numbers when you do these comparisons.

I was excited to see this. This is exactly what I wanted. Glad to see that we could have this information now so we can all make more sense of everything to help ourselves and other people.

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

Kinda. I think it would have been a better test had he used a head which has a bigger difference in airflow between .450 and .500 lift. Do this on a 6.2 with a good head like a BR3 CNC or a ported LS3 and I suspect that we are looking at a different scenario.

@natricjol

Жыл бұрын

@@AB-80X then it would have only shown the difference at high rpms where the majority of people arent. that same point could be said for every test. honestly, how many people are rolling through the streets with ported heads?i bet the difference would have been under 25hp. all that airflow and going with a mild lift cam seems like a waste to me.

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

@@natricjol That is kind of the point and what will happen. If nothing is changed down in the mid lift area, then you obviously won't see a change there. The point of this test was to see the difference in power from lift, not from various heads or variations in cam duration. In order to do that, you need to use a head that keeps performing stronger the more you lift. If the flow flattens out, then you get a smaller difference and the difference is mostly because you lift the valve longer at the previous max lift. If you want changes everywhere, you need a head that will flow more everywhere as well. What I talk about, singles out the effect of the lift not the effects of a better head. Lots, and I do mean A LOT of people are running around with ported or aftermarket heads. Not all of us are into the junkyard thing. Hell, people are even having these basic LS heads ported for cheap. Aside from that, there's a slew of pored LS2, LS3, LS6 and LS7 heads running out there. After that, you have all the aftermarket stuff. Thousands and I do mean thousands of cars run this stuff.

@natricjol

Жыл бұрын

@@AB-80X we all know that a higher limft cam will make more power when you have better headflow to match with the displacement. if you have have too much head flow and not even cam or displacement to take advantage of it, then you will kill power. no one is disputing that. This was to compare what is essentially the same camshaft with the only difference being lift. if you have higher flowing heads, get the cam with more lift. if you are after more power than the nsr cam, get the og version or something with more lift or duration. take this test for what it is.

Love your videos, would like to see how you set up your Holley fuel injection, timing and afr

This is one of the things I look at when picking a cam. I wish in grade school my teacher would have introduce me to garage math! Once again thanks Richard.

It would be interesting to know what the results of this test would be with a canted valve head design like BBC or 351C. I'm reasoning that the valve motion away from the cylinder wall might make more power on canted valve heads versus an identical engine with the regular setup (351 C vs 351 W???) Very interesting stuff, thanks Richard👍

This latest content wave is 🔥 Richard!

I’m seeing a 500 hp 6.0 with stock cast manifolds with a fairly mild cam being a possibility🤓If I keeping watching your testing It just might happen.I’ve learned so much from you and can’t wait to watch everything you put out 👍👍👍

@donaldgminski8621

Жыл бұрын

Minus draw from accessories, drive train, and voila. Still slow.

Not surprised with the 799 heads, as there is only a ~6CFM Intake Flow difference between .500 and .650 lift on factory/UNported 799 heads. This test would be interesting to see on aftermarket CNC ported heads where the flow spread between .500 and .650 intake lift might equate to more like 25+CFM.

@realazliving

8 ай бұрын

That’s a good observation.

Great video! This is awesome to see what each cam is worth n/a bit how different would it be if it was under boost

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

MINIMAL CHANGE NA-SO MINIMAL CHANGE UNDER BOOST

Thanks for all you share. I wish you had tested the BTR NSR cam with the stock valve springs.

@richardholdener1727

10 ай бұрын

we did run that cam with stock springs on the 4.8L (not that having springs makes any difference to the power gain offered by the cam)

I like this video and I kind of felt that lift didn't have as much impact as duration does as well. That's why I chose a 600 lift cam to keep beehives for valvetrain lightness

awesome lesson now we need some way to prove spring life between these 4 cams. im a big fan of the ss2 but im not convinced that the recomended pac 1218/ 1219 valve springs suit the lift of the cam . ive losts 4 engines in the last 5 burnouts all valve and spring related

I always said lift doesn't matter near as much as duration and LSA. Glad to see that actually tested. No need for high lift on a street engine. Easier on parts having less lift

450 hp from a 5.3 is is pretty sick 🫤these cam test are so addictive 🤪and I can’t pass them over!I would like you to make a street exhaust system when you test the street cams and maybe cast stock exhaust manifolds with a performance street exhaust system.I also appreciate the spring testing,super stiff spring put so much stress on everything.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

watch the truck cam test where I ran stock ex manifolds

Love your channel awesome content

whats interesting is that i considered the ss2 to be the cam to get before you start seeing massive losses down low. if the red hot cam keeps the same power level and makes more at the tall end. then that sweet 3000-5500 range doesnt need a bigger cam. to get power there i guess id run up compression or bigger cubic inches. or maybe start messing with head porting and velocity.

Great data, Richard. So what do you think the rest of the engine needs to take advantage of higher lift without more duration? Is there a limit where your (displacement)*(RPM)*(volumetric efficiency) only can benefit from a maximum lift and beyond that, it's not pulling any more air? If so, any engine configuration won't gain much torque beyond a certain lift number. Or is there something else going on?

Hey rich , just wanted to say thank you for your information on the LS platform, using your information i was able to build my very own 6.0l gen 4 with a s400 turbo thats going in a 1979 Malibu..

@Irishcream216

Жыл бұрын

Dang that's gonna be a blast. Please post a few videos on the car if you can. I'd love to see it!

I would like to see these set ups with some home port cleaned up 799 or 706s and in a 6.0 if possible

The extra lift does get the valve to its max flow opening quicker But the formula for lift to valve size predicts some very interesting result. Using Brians old size v lift v flow potential formula Pi times valve size

I wish you would do more cam motion stuff. I have a cammed sierra with btr stage 2 and a cammed silverado with the cam motion titan 2... the cam motion has the quietest valvetrain I've ever heard in a cammed LS... it's also got tons of torque and power all over with a 3000 stall. Specs are 221/226 .587 .595 lift split on a 112 lsa... it's the sweet spot as I've ran many combos some bigger some smaller. Test some cam motion stuff Richard! I know btr is a big name but everyone runs the same stuff over and over and over. For those that hate valves slamming shut look into them. Their communication is superb also.

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

I think it has to do with BTR being a channel sponsor for these tests. Kip does not sponsor these tests apparently.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

WHO IS KIP-AND I HAVE TESTED CAM MOTION STUFF

Great Vid man

Red hot had less overlap and more lift. Good info

I would opt for the higher lift version and a 90.00 set of LS9 springs...how many LM7 or L33's out there are low enough mileage that you would want to risk running stock springs with a larger cam? Aside from lift, the added RPM might cause some valve float issues with old high mileage springs.

Like with almost every engine mod, everything is connected to everything. Some heads (and valves) flow a lot better with a lot of lift, some don't etc.

Crazy how much cam only improves these LS's...

@davelowets

Жыл бұрын

For sure.... Shows you how good thise heads really are. We never saw gains like this with the old small blocks back in the day. One COULD have seen a 100h.p. gain between a stock cam and a big solid roller with those old school small block's, but the rest of the engine needed to be nothing but high strung, top-of-the-line, hi-performance, parts.

I feel like the low lift cam allows as much air as the 5.3 can pull in and everything over that is just for show. Curious to see if more displacement can take better advantage of the larger lift. 6.0/6.2 test?

@ArtosDeDraconum

Жыл бұрын

It would depend more on the flow of the heads. If the heads simply don't flow more air at 550 than at 500, then you won't see a difference from the lift. The extra lift with identical duration does mean that the cam has a faster ramp rate, which will generally produce more power, but in this single digit area that they're talking about in the video. If you have a head that can flow to higher lift, even as simple as an LS7 style head(stock ls7 is 315 at 500 and ~330 at 500) you will see more gains.

Would be cool to see the NSR cam vs the higher lift cam with some better flowing heads to see if the lift has some difference with more cylinder head.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

the heads already flow enough to support over 500 hp

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 True, but that 500 hp number also comes with a specific amount of air needed. If you don't change the time you keep that valve open, and the added lift does not really increase the amount of air going into the engine, then you are not really changing anything. Yes these heads will make 500 hp but that takes a lot more duration because it needs more time to pull in air into the cylinder. If you keep airflow the same at say 450, but increase it substantially at 500 vs. keeping similar airflow number at 450 and 500, then that higher lift should provide more than the 7 hp.

As you can see cam horse power is made for how fast you open the valve not how far you open it or how long it's kept open, good video

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

so lift and duration are meaningless?

Another awesome test. I wonder how happy those stock valve spring are at 6500 rpm on the NSR 😄 but most truck cam buyers want that "chop chop"

@Slik-rik87

Жыл бұрын

Don't know how happy, but 62-6300 on my 6.2 so far hasn't been an issue.

@Akestler

Жыл бұрын

@@Slik-rik87 are you this nsr cam in a 6.2?

@Slik-rik87

Жыл бұрын

@@Akestler yea I have the truck norris nsr in a 2012 6.2 crew cab z71

@Akestler

Жыл бұрын

@@Slik-rik87 notice any TQ loss down low?

@Slik-rik87

Жыл бұрын

@@Akestler none, I was very impressed

great stuff lets see that tsp tsunami cam on a lq9 408ci

Are you competing with Engine Masters. I don't care its all good . Love this stuff.

@shadowopsairman1583

Жыл бұрын

He is marching to his own drum

What a fun job. I have run 1.7/1 roller rockers on my 350 chevys for a long time. Now, with electronic ignition and a proper quadrajet it will pull from 1,000 in high and when you step on it it goes now especially when the secondaries open. I am also surprised at the basic no power gain. Something is happening though. If nothing else roller tips help prevent valve guide and seal wear. I use many known tricks and parts in this simple motor for easy power and longevity such as ARP bolts. I also use stainless bolts on all exhaust manifold bolts, intake bolts, and water pump bolts. In 25 years of abuse, no matter how long the bolt has been in, they just come out as rust does not touch stainless. Never break an exhaust or water pump bolt again. How much is that worth?

Keep on testing, Richard and please keep giving all the engine specs on the videos. That is very helpful. One more observation; If it hasn't been said yet the 799 head flow essentially flat lines at .500" of lift (243 CFM). 799 head flow is 248, 249, and 250 CFM at .600", .650", and .700" respectively. The Truck Norris NSR cam lift will pretty much max this head out in horsepower and the narrow LSA will max out torque (because it's lower than 110 based on DV's 128 theory). Increasing the lift (installing the Truck Norris) will increase the horsepower minimally (like you've proven here) and increasing the lift, duration, and LSA will make a little more power, shift the curves, and decrease torque a little (would be more if this engine had more compression). SS2 and the Red Hot cams are suited for higher flowing heads.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

that is incorrect-the motor made 441 hp or so with the TN cam and 481 hp with a bigger cam using the stock heads. That the head flow stall and matches the max lift of the cam does not control power output-we have exceeded 500 hp with these stock 799 heads

@gearhead7896

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 Stock head flow for this head ~250 max. .257×250×8=514 hp. If what you say is true with the claim of 500 hp that engine is 97% efficient theoretically and you would have to have the lift to support it as well. What am I not seeing? 10:31 is where you tell the horsepower of the Red Hot Cam and it's at 454, but I know you test a ton of cams.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

IF WHAT I SAY IS TRUE? I'M NOT THE ONE USING SPECULATION HERE. AS A DYNO RESULTS CHANNEL, I DON'T PROVIDE OPINIONS BASED ON THEORETICAL (AND INACCURATE) MATH. I PROVIDE DATA. PLEASE SEE THE 6.0L 799 HEAD TEST WHERE THE MOTOR MADE 522 HP AND 481 LB-FT OF TORQUE. 2 HP PER PEAK CFM IS A GUIDE...NOT AN ABSOLUTE. I HAVE MADE 2.32 HP PER PEAK CFM ON A STOCK 5.0L FORD HEAD.

You just backed up what Lynn Willinfinger at Mondello performance told me. Lift doesn’t matter as much as duration and cam timing. I was in the market for a more street able cam for my Mopar. My cam I had had 236 duration. He recommended a cam with 224 @ .050. I stated my old cam had close to .480 lift. This cam has only .455. What about grinding a cam with more lift. It won’t make that much difference. Yes I’m very happy with his cam selection. Even the Desk top Dyno backed up his statement.

Truck Norris NSR is definitely goin in my 4.8 now 👍

On an LS1, using Engine Analyzer Pro (because cams and dyno testing cost money), going from .525" lift to 0.550" lift, with the SAME open and closing points, is worth 7 HP. You'd see a little less gain on a 5.3L, a little more on a 6L.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

that's why we test on real dynos-and not computers

I wonder if the engines displacement relative to the head flow would make a bigger difference, so just repeat this test with a 6.0 and see if it is able to better use additional lift.

@AndreS_-df2nw

Жыл бұрын

Then maybe try it on a 400+ cubic inch engine too, follow that with more compression in the same displacements

I like your channel Sir. But I got a idea for ya. Because thicker oil has more entrained air in it, Do a Dyno test on a given engine using one time a 10W 30/40 oil and then compare the dyno results to the same engine using a 30W or 40W or 20W50 oil !!! This will tell you how much lifter collapse from a thin multi viscosity oil compared to a straight heavier oil, the dyno results should indicate the difference if any between the two !!! Generally a thicker oil lubricates better than a lighter weight oil, all the best to you and yours Sir.

@richardholdener1727

10 ай бұрын

PLEASE SEE THE OIL VISCOUSITY TEST VIDEO

Hey Richard do some testing on Lunati Cams for the LS

richard, just saw the lsa test from a couple of years ago. how about a test where you keep the same inlet closing and exhaust opening numbers and go down on duration while keeping the lift as close as you can to where you started? that way the lsa will open up, but the important events won't change. see how a shorter cam with more lsa compares to a larger cam with less.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

SOUNDS LIKE LOTS OF CUSTOM CAMS-$$$$

@bradthebikeboy

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 that's part of the fun isn't it? you wouldn't need that many, 3 or 4 would suffice. finding lobes with enough lift at the shorter duration and the lessening area under the curve would restrict your choice for a worthwhile comparison too i guess. and some of the benefit is going to be in idle vacuum and low speed manners, which you can't assess on the dyno. maybe lowest rpm it'll hold full load at? then you're into time spent setting up tune as well.

Imagine a cam that sounds tough, makes great vacuum, makes loads of power at all rpm ranges, works with any compression level and even better with power adders and won't wear your valvetrain much.

Great video

Richard this was a good one. What was the total timing with the SS2? And what AFR do you usually shoot for at WOT?

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

29 total and please watch the tuning video

Great info as always. I am wondering if the high lift cam would pull away with ported or aftermarket heads. Idea for another test?

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

it's not the head flow

@Staypuff777

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 Thanks Richard, I've seen more dramatic results going from 1.6 to 1.7 rocker arms, but more is changing than just lift I suppose in that case.

Hey Richard, could you also show us what the cam(s) sound like? It would be interesting if you could (or couldn’t) hear the difference

@borismorris9841

Жыл бұрын

In future videos that is

Now would the same results be made when boost is added with the same cam test? Does more lift mean much more power or would it be about the same? Thanks.

The PI cam swap on an older NPI motor is a good test of what changing lift does on a cam swap. The NPI cam is sub .465 lift while the PI is .510/.535 in/ex lift. Typically gains of 15rwhp across the whole rev range is seen. With the PI intake, you have the best bang for the buck mods for an early 2v.

@mathewhoffer4541

Жыл бұрын

Actually you also want to run the PI valve springs because they are rated at 61 lbs versus the NPI at 50lb and the melling springs for PI engines at rock auto are rated at that amount for cheap. when buying used PI cam always ask for the PI springs chances are the guy selling the cams replaced the springs as well you might get um for free. do not use the PI valve lasher these bleed down faster then NPI which is main reason the PI cams works so well in NPI engines. Avoid 4 V valve lashers then bleed down the fastest.

@madmod

Жыл бұрын

@@mathewhoffer4541 PI valve springs are identical to the 96 and later npi valvespring. In fact, the same spring has a shorter installed height giving the 96+ NPI more seat and open pressure on the stock valvesprings. This comes at the cost of maxing valve lift to around .540~ without offset retainers.

@mathewhoffer4541

Жыл бұрын

@@madmod I have a 1998 Gt and a 2003 Gt a part in my basement and the springs are not identical the PSI readings I gave you were from those springs and the retainers are different as well they are 2 completely different springs and both these cars were purchased new so no one swapped them out at a later time. go to rock auto and look up springs for 1998 gt and 2003 gt they are different part numbers as well because they are not interchangeable without changing the retainers as well. melling makes a performance spring for the PI that is good to .600 lift and has 110 lb seat psi and is 1 3rd the price of any aftermarket cam spring.

@mathewhoffer4541

Жыл бұрын

@@madmod the NPI lash adjusters are better you get the full benifit of lift with them as they leak down slower. Ford made the PI lash adjuster bleed down faster because of the lift same as the 4V lash adjusters.

@madmod

Жыл бұрын

@@mathewhoffer4541 This is backwards Pi adjusters are the slow bleed. Npi are fast

Love the screwdriver stuck into the vacuum hose!

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

MAKE IT HAPPEN MODE

Ricardo... Quite a few heads taper off in CFM improvement at .500 lift... If true here it could explain the result. With some Whizz/Bang Heads that offered 20-30 cfm more at .600.. perhaps a different result. I do like that NSR cam .. 400hp and 400 ft lbs with low/fuss ... that's a good deal.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

this head flows better at 550 than 500 and better at 600 than both

@arcdestriumph586

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 I figured as much but 5cfm vs 20-30cfm counts.

Richard very good video, I think one good question to answer (if it hasn't been answered already) is what makes more torque/horsepower more lift or more dynamic compression ratio (on a 'normal' compression (9 or 10.5:1) engine and also a 'high' compression engine (11:1 or more))?

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

HOW DO YOU ISOLATE THOSE?

@gearhead7896

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 It certainly is easier said then done, that's for sure. You've already done about half the work with this video. There are multiple variables that change DCR but the real test would be just testing a low DCR cam and a high DCR cam (with at least 1 point of DCR change) on the same engine. I assume you know how to calculate it but if you don't I can point you to two different websites or I could do the number crunching for you. I will suggest two different cams now and you might have already tested them. I can't keep track of all the cams you test. How many have you tested? SUM-8726R1 and Howard’s 190315-08. I have a cam spreadsheet with all the cams I'm looking at for my 6.0LS. These two cams have a DCR of 7.08 and 8.91 respectively.

Rich, any plans to look into the port injected conversions for the L8T engines? Lot more potential than DI for the average guy and the L8T looks like an interesting platform. I know its not an easy junkyard find yet, but thought I'd ask.

@riccocool

Жыл бұрын

What engine is this? Port injected 5.3/6.0?

@ChurchAutoTest

Жыл бұрын

@@riccocool Its the new direct injection 6.6 pushrod engine from GM. But companies already make conversion kits to run it port injected with an older E38 ECU (which means you could do Holley EFI as well).

How about a comparison between the Comp 54-459-11 and the RedHot... ?

The TSP low lift truck cams are down 10-15 hp when compared to their high lift versions, but that's going from .550 to .600. So it looks like the higher you go in lift the bigger the difference in hp (and also the bigger the cam the bigger the difference between low and high lift versions as their low lift 212/218 is down closer to 10 hp and the 218/224 is down closer to 15 hp).

@utahcountypicazospage5412

Жыл бұрын

Because 500-550 is not really big but 500vs600 that’s we’re things get good that’s why Texas speed shows that .ls cathedral port 600 lift they still flow

@nowayjose596

Жыл бұрын

@@utahcountypicazospage5412 .500 to .550 and .550 to .600 is the same total difference: .050. That's what I'm talking about here. If BTR made a "high lift" version of the Truck Norris cam with .600 lift we'd really be able to see how true it is - in theory the difference between it and the regular Truck Norris cam (.552 lift) would be even greater than the 7 or so hp seen in this video.

Great video and question. I run a lot of 5.3's, lots of swaps and when someone wants an extra little kick in the pants I have had great luck with the Texas Speed Stage 2 Truck Cam. It comes in 2 versions, .550" lift and .600" lift. I always opt for the .550" version with a set of LS6 Blue springs. Works like a charm. I just did a 5.3 for myself and opted for the .600" version and used a Lunati spring/retainer/lock kit and a set of one piece pushrods. I think I wasted my money, really didn't notice a difference but the question is, is there a point of diminishing returns ? Would the extra lift be beneficial on a 6.0L or bigger ? Do the LS heads flow so well that at moderate lift levels do they outflow the requirements of the engine within reason.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

ask yourself if the lift is valuable with the other cam specs

@OGMEDIAGROUP420

Жыл бұрын

@richardholdener1727 how do the hydraulic rollers of Lunati stack up against the btr, sloppy stage x, etc? Seems I can't find a lot of lunati cam test on a 5.3. Old school iron 5.7, I really liked what Lunati offered. Do they not translate in Ls world? Voodoo? Bootlegger? Here to learn more. Impressed with the power gains from the 5.3s and thinking of crossing over 😎

Very good! Your killing it Mr Holdener. How about a LS3 cam vs Truck Norris cam in that engine. I take it the Truck Norris would win?

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

ls3 would be terrible down low

If the lift is up but the duration is the same, you have to imagine that the ramp rates increase so much that the cam is barely hitting that extra lift for long anyway.

@joshkrause2977

Жыл бұрын

Still the heads only flow x amount, the cam should match the head flow. If head flow is say best at .400 lift with a .500 lift cam then you have too much cam. Then there is LSA which has a lot of factors with the specific engine specs.

Great test richard. I am doing my first LS Swap and have setting up a LQ4 6.0 and I did put standard truck norris cam since that all that was available at the time. I would think that displacement would come into play with different amounts of lift. Do you think the difference in power would have been proportionately different on let's say a 6 liter or larger engine.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

MAYBE

@hondarideralex

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 time for a test! Have tested the Truck Norris on a 6.0L?

I have been taught that cam profile should be selected on what the head flow characteristics are like. The lift should not really exceed the port flow plateau of the curve, because more lift than that doesn't gain much of anything for the cost of valve train durability/longevity. If the heads are limited due to valve/port size etc... then larger duration helps with gains as it allows time for cylinder filling when heads are limited. This is why my cam I have on the shelf for my 3800 1 was developed to be only 525 lift but 260+ duration with 300+ adv duration, yet peak power is slightly below 7K. The heads physically won't fit valves any bigger than 1.76x 1.50. The duration really helps get good power out of them. The low lift also keeps the valve train reliable so the race engines rarely failed from that, rather stock iron cranks + dampener delete and light open wheelers on rough Aus tracks was a recipe for crank failures in the early days of racing, band aided by billet cranks in subsequent years.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

THAT IS NOT ACCURATE-LOTS OF COMBOS RUN CAMS THAT ARE NOT MATCHED TO THE LIFT CURVE OF THE HEADS

Have you thought about testing the lift on bigger and/or CNC heads to see it's effect on a slightly different configuration?

@duanedahl8856

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the whole point of going high lift is taking advantage of additional air flow capabilities...kinda pointless without good heads

I'd love to see 5/16 vs. 3/8 pushrods with a cam in the .600 and .650 lift range.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

we run 5/16ths in every ls

@joeinmi8671

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 brain fart I meant 5/16 vs 3/8. Edited my original comment.

I guess it ultimately depends on the head flow vs Lift

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

no

@kevinjennische8209

Жыл бұрын

I agree mindblown watcher... Try those same cams on Tfs 205 heads. Or teas 799....

@20alphabet

Жыл бұрын

Obviously, if the head can't accommodate the extra lift.

@AB-80X

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 Not in this case. But are you telling us that if you have a head that flows 300 at 500 and 302 at say 550. vs. 300 at 500 and 325 at 550 then it would not matter? Makes no sense. Please explain.

So we know the Red Hot cam makes 228+ cam power but does it drive and idle like a big cam too or does it drive like the 221 cam it is?

Don't you hate that 221 making more than the 228. It does give a bit of an answer to my question about big intake exhaust duration difference. The Red Hot's extra 20 + degrees of exh over intake pays off in this case.

A strange one - can you grab a piece of straight 4 inch silicone. Or a joiner and piece of pipe. And come straight forwards off the throttle body. At least 6 inches or so? And do a power run, I’d love to see a back to back with an airflow reading. I’ve always found 10-15hp on the chassis dyno over an open TB. Open TB is the best way to lose power even compared to a conventional OTR intake.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

it has not done that in my testing

Ive always assumed stock engines don’t get much help with performance cams. You really need bigger valves/ports and performance heads stronger springs all set up to work together before you’d consider a hot cam. IMO. I put a bigger lift cam in my 351 Cleveland before when I was 21 years old and it did not change anything. And I had headers with bigger carb as well as changes the springs. Nothing. But if you want performance, that’s felt in the seat of your pants and you really need a performance engine. Everything has to work together, not one piece at a Time.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

a cam always changes power in any motor

I wouldn’t even bother with the high lift. On a 6.0 I think the high lift would show bigger gains. Tho maybe I’m wrong…. These would be awesome for a DD with boost. 56Hp gain withought even changing springs is very impressive! I know summit racing has a NSR cam…. Maybe Richard can get his hands on that?

Could you do this test with a set heads that can actually use the lift? What I mean is that I suspect that the lift matters so little because the heads are at their max with the lower lift cam. It would be cool to see this test with a set of BR3 CNC heads on a 6.2. I bet the difference because of the lift would be significant.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

THE 799 HEADS USED ACHIEVE MAX FLOW AT .700 LIFT (250 CFM-ENOUGH TO SUPPORT OVER 500 HP)

That Red Hot is pretty interesting. I wonder how it would compare to something like a BTR NA stage 3 cam... it seems like those guys are good at getting "higher duration" numbers out of "smaller" cams!

@james10739

Жыл бұрын

I think Richard has a video comparing the stage 1,2,3 truck cams

@nowayjose596

Жыл бұрын

Technically the Red Hot is designed for the LS3 and according to BTR's own dyno numbers it's within about 5 hp of their N/A Stage 3 LS3 cam (with the Red Hot actually making a few more hp which is interesting considering it's a 221 intake duration vs 228 for the Stage 3 of one of BTR's own designs). As far as I can tell both cams were tested on stock heads/intake LS3s but you'd have to reach out to BTR to verify if those two dyno results really are an apples to apples comparison.

You can also play around with lift by swapping to higher ratio rocker arms on the same cam.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

changes more than lift

@177SCmaro

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 So does changing the camshaft.

I'm beginning to see Adam's perspective on BT's cam theory quite clearly now. BT made a good cam with the Truck Norris but didn't apply that tight LSA technique to the Red Hot and went back to "ADD MORE EXHAUST DURATION" and barely beat out the SS2 which has average less duration and less lift.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

who is adam

@87_951

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 Adam of Cattledog Garage ... his engine building methodology parallels David Vizard's approach, understanding that *LSA ISN'T A BYPRODUCT* and that there is a specific formula for certain engine platforms that give a fairly accurate and good baseline to start with when spec'ing a camshaft for a given application. Vizard's formulas for LSA (mainly engine size and valve diameter) and Duration (Application) have proven to provide a solid baseline to start with and then factoring in valve timing events based on headflow etc. Whilst it seems BT builds his camshafts more of a reverse order and that LSA is just an after effect. Now that the grand master Vizard is back on YT making use of his vast knowledge and experience is more readily available for the masses. I think much of what you do runs in the same direction that Vizard has done over the past 50+ years.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

your description of a difference between how Brian and David design cams is nothing more than speculation-picking a single cam element as MOST important is equally a fool's errand I have spoken on the subject of picking the BEST cam many times, a formula won't work because there is no single answer

@87_951

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 I said it sets an good baseline depending on multiple variables, and David has specific formulas depending on these variables that are not speculation but 50+ years of proven race experience, I wouldn't call his methods a fool's errand. Only if one is leaving out everything else and just using one formula to apply to everything which is certainly not how he explains it and definitely would be just shooting in the dark Brian's methods are akin to taking Kung Fu taught from Buddhist monks and getting Karate, a lot is missing from but a rigid method was created that works for some people.

@87_951

Жыл бұрын

Case in point is the fact that these tight LSA, low lift, NSR, and med lift cams are performing just as well if not better even when they have higher duration than those with wider LSAs throughout the RPM range given the application is suitable. According to old myths we certainly wouldn't have thought they'd be suitable in heavy trucks ... the issue with tight LSA is that it also narrows down their applicable use and require specific parameters in order for them to work in that application. Wider LSAs provide leeway for wider range of application, so they tend to do better as "off the shelf " cams

Hey Richard, do you think the stiffer springs allowed the NSR to maintain valve control at higher RPM and ultimately make more power than it would on the stock springs? The difference might actually be larger if the stock springs wouldn't be able to carry that much rpm

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

the nsr cam was run both the stock 706 springs (on the 4.8L test) and after market springs on the 5.3L-it doesn't need a spring upgrade. Stiffer springs (if anything) cost power

It would be nice to see those all on the same graph. Is there a reason why you haven’t? I would like to see the SS2 and the Truck Norris on the same graph. That NSR is real impressive.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

please watch the tn vs ss2 cam video-it was posted long ago

You did a video on LSA, now lift, can you please now finish it off with a duration? Thanks

You need to do these types of roller cam videos for the sbc 350 vortec motor 96/02

Yup, we specialize in Honda V6 J-Series Performance Products (HalferLand Performance) and can tell you other companies have no clue what their doing based on their cam spec. They even tried stealing our specs from our cutter. But anyways, lift does play a role but duration and LSA is where the power is made (again others LSA is so far off, probably the reason their Stage 2's pick up 10-20whp and ours have seen in excess of 42whp gains in a 3.5 engine!)

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

I THINK MY BOY JIMMY MAVE HAVE CONTACTED YOU GUYS ABOUT HIS J SERIES SWAP NSX

i think as the cams are so close testing them on a 5.7 or 6.0 would prove allot more of a change, as simply the volume of lift and duration provided was enough already on the 5.3 with the low lift cam?

I recently purchased the nsr truck norris cam for a l92. Pleased to see these results, even though i'd guess more than 7hp gain could be realized with larger displacement, between the regular and nsr version. Have you ever run either the nsr or regular truck norris in a 6.2? 212/22x i believe.

Great informative helpful as usual. Thank you for this. However, from my point of veiw. This test does not represent a cam generality. But a result only comparable when 799 or 243 heads are used in stock form. For this testing to have any tangable outcome. The heads flow curve including flow at .500, .525, and .550 lift points and localized port velocities should have been included. Otherwise nobody will ever know if it was the head that governed the cam. Or the cam its self that was responsible for the results? Also, it would have been far more informative if the bsac and bsfc numbers were included at the end of the video. IMO.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

THE 799 HEAD FLOW PEAKS AT 700 LIFT-NOT .500, .525 OR .550.

@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 Hi Mr Holdener. Thanks again for your efforts. We all learn alot from your work. But many heads have a sag if you will. Right in the .475 to .550 lift range. And that sag is greatly increased or decreased by valve seat profiles etc. Another words. Without data on the exact heads you used along with a basic velocity profile. The test you did does not tell us what the cam lift does.

It's all to the limit to a available room or clearance for the rotating assembly to clear the lobes on the camshaft at operating temperature is cuz things swell slightly

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

no

R.H G.O.A.T RICHARD is a blessing to Gearheads. Thanks Richard

I haven't gotten notifications In a while. Don't worry, making up for it and getting up to speed.

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

THNX

Do you have a video on porting 799 heads and match the intake runners ? I'm at 190k and I'm fixing to do my 2012 5.3 I am going to put in ls7 style lifters and I know that is easier to just pull the motor ,do it, lay the headers in and go back at it. Impressive knowledge sir !

@richardholdener1727

Жыл бұрын

DON'T WORRY ABOUT PORT MATCHING, BOWL WORK AND UNSHROUD THE CHAMBERS

@1flynlow

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholdener1727 please test port matching on your dyno