I live in CA. The nearest fuel station near me is 20 miles away and has a 1.5-star rating. Every comment was one of regret.

Known this firsthand since 2021. The cost of H2 per Kg has tripled in the last year and a half - mind boggling that people think this ridiculously high TCO is anywhere close to where we need to be headed.

@simoc24

2 ай бұрын

Triple?? What happened?? Why??

@scottkolaya2110

2 ай бұрын

@@simoc24 A couple things. One, there's more hydrogen cars on the road and storing the gas at the station in compressed format only supplies maybe 50 cars at the most. (There's 18,000 FCEVs in CA) So they've had to resort to methods that hold more and transport more. That's liquefying H2. More than 50% of all the stations cryogenically stored H2 and all new stations are. That requires cooling it down to -427° F. That's expensive. Another thing is making less of it from methane and just chucking the CO2 into the atmosphere. That's also expensive. They are also realizing electrolizers don't last as long as expected and station maintenance is way up because H2 is hard on equipment and it frequently breaks down.

@simoc24

2 ай бұрын

@@scottkolaya2110 thanks for your info electrolyzers, learn something new today :)

Fuel cell = electricity -> hydrogen -> electricity. Get rid of the middleman and you'd pay less! Not to mention the transport and storage cost.

@douglaswatt1582

2 ай бұрын

Delusion -> waste of money = massive regret

@tony2707

2 ай бұрын

Don't forget that the conversion uses 60 percent more energy.

A few years back an oil company executive was asked how much the equivalent cost of H2 would be relative to petrol that would give the same range. And he said that, when all the infrastructure was in place and production was ramped up, the cost would be the same as for petrol then. So basically, that was the time to stop with all the hype, because direct electricity is always going to be cheaper for the same distance. Hydrogen is finished for private transport.

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

FCEVs take advantage of the far higher efficacy of electric motors. Gasoline engines tend to be far less efficient with energy, at the design level. Batteries, as in a charged battery to 80 per cent, would have far less capacity than a full fuel cell car. The difference can be over 20 times, far less.

@williammeek4078

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@FlameofDemocracyfuel cells are only about twice as efficient as ICEVs. And there are severe limitations on how much hydrogen that can be stored onboard. The result of this is that there is not a single commercially available HFCEV that can outperform the best BEVs on any metric that matters. And no fueling time isn’t one of those metrics that matter because a HFCEV will never be able refuel at home and once a BEV has over 300 miles of range, even on road trips, BEV drivers will just charge while they eat a meal and keep going.

@ramblerandy2397

2 ай бұрын

@@FlameofDemocracy What does that have to do with the cost of H2 for the same range?

@TB-up4xi

2 ай бұрын

@@FlameofDemocracy Well this is full of nonsense. If you make hydrogen from electrolysis of water you need 55kwh of electricity to produce 1kg of hydrogen. The Toyota Mirai has 141 litres of combined tank volume for the 3 hydrogen tanks that can store a total of 5.6kg in compressed form = 308kwh electricity needed to fill the tank. You get 400miles range from this = 1.3 mi per kwh. My 2023 Tesla has a lifetime efficient of 5.7mi per kwh but 3 to 3.5 miles per kwh is pretty typical for the average BEV. You are better off putting the electricity to make the hydrogen straight into a battery. Not only are they far less efficient overall in the production to consumption cycle, there is no FCEV that will get 20 times the range of a BEV, both the Lucid Air and Tesla model S have longer ranges than the longest range FCEV (Mirai).

$15,000 of electricity will drive my model Y 480,000 miles. $15,000 of hydrogen drives a Toyota Mirai just 26,000 miles. Two year old Toyota Mirai are for sale in CA, USA for around $10,000.

@TB-up4xi

2 ай бұрын

Lol my EV overnight rate is 5.2c USD per kwh and I have a lifetime efficiency of 5.7mi per kwh. $15,000 would get me 1.6+ million miles.

@connclissmann6514

2 ай бұрын

Who is buying any hydrogen car now, even in CA. She'll are closing down their hydrogen station there, in understand.

@ThierryHorel

2 ай бұрын

We are in a transition world. Most want to get rid of fossils fuels but no one can replace that concentrated energy. Normal it is a liquid. H2 is a myth for personal vehicles. And electric don't lower the use of fossils. Norway still use 82 % of fossils and dream to drill more along its coasts . NO countries can drive 100 % of EV with renewables . Anyway you need fossils to create concrete, plastics, roads, bridge, pavement and infrastructures.

@tony2707

2 ай бұрын

​@ThierryHorel people do drive their ev"s with 100 percent of renewable energy, what are you talking about!?

Nobody died in norway when the hydrogen station blew up!!! You got it wrong. Only two persons got minor injuries. They where injured by the air bags in their car that was triggered by the shock wave. It was in Sandvika near Oslo. I live not so far away. Faulty assembled valve in a tank was the reason -scary! Electric is still cleaner and safer. Most hydrogen is today made from fossil fuels, so not green at all. Green/blue hydrogen takes a lot of electricity to make.

It's going to cost a lot more when they close all the hydrogen stations

@robertfonovic3551

2 ай бұрын

How? If they are all closed. Are you American?

@david9192

2 ай бұрын

@@robertfonovic3551 yes, are you American

@twothbeave

2 ай бұрын

True Zero has 80% of the H2 stations in CA. The company is not in the best of financial shape. It could happen. Probably be propped up by the State of Toyota if they hit financial hardship. Which could happen with so few cars being sold.

@TB-up4xi

2 ай бұрын

@@robertfonovic3551 The Nordics are closing all of theirs rapidly, by the end of Q1 2024 there will be no more commercially operated hydrogen filling sites in Denmark, Norway or Sweden. Bjorn Nyland as filmed abandoned Mirais next to decommissioned hydrogen stations on his 1000km challenge.

@david9192

2 ай бұрын

@@twothbeave and shell gas stations are all closing too

When i bought my Mirai cost of Hydrogen was about $9 per killo with $15k Hydrogen fuel card should have been enough for about 100k miles now with prices of $26-$30 per killo it is less than 30k miles. 5 killos for full tank. Maintance goes up with Toyota as car gets older 60k maintance dealership asks for $1200.

@kennystrawnmusic

2 ай бұрын

It’s $36 per kilogram now. That’s triple what it was in late 2021 and early 2022.

@R0M8N

2 ай бұрын

@@kennystrawnmusic some stations in LA area have for $29 now

@kennystrawnmusic

2 ай бұрын

@@R0M8NIwatani is $29 but True Zero is $36. The only $29 station in my area is in San Juan Capistrano and it’s not as reliable as the others.

@R0M8N

2 ай бұрын

@@kennystrawnmusic santa monica station is at $26 in LA

@InformedKiwi

2 ай бұрын

Why would you do it? Must be a masochist

My EV costs 2p per mile to run. I use 7.5p per kWh overnight rate in the UK. I’m looking forward to free charging from my Solar in Summer.

@trevorwilson2966

2 ай бұрын

And it loses about $100 per mile in depreciation.

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

Battery degradation, resulting range anxiety, and replacement costs, might be seen as limiting factors for some buyers.

@williammeek4078

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@FlameofDemocracybattery degradation, probably not. Actively cooled batteries tend to last longer than the car body, and that is to 70% capacity. The battery can then be used for other things like stationary storage. Range anxiety generally isn’t a thing for EV owners, only non-EV owners. BEVs are getting cheaper (which is the primary driver of depreciation) so replacement costs are coming down as well.

@TB-up4xi

2 ай бұрын

@@trevorwilson2966Lol so my $39k (new) model 3 RWD has depreciated $2million after 20,000 miles?

@danshillabeer9523

2 ай бұрын

Just visited a lady with a little citroen e-ami. She loves it for mobility, but also said that factoring in her solar output, her car/quad costs around £1 per week to run around doing the local stuff. That's the future of personal mobility

TAKE ABOUT MISINFORMATION, there were ZERO deaths at the Norway refill station that blew up. But yes, hydrogen is not cost effective.

The nature of Hydrogen making it extreme difficult to popularize. One truck could only accommodate few hundred kg Hydrogen to refill 50 to 60 vehicle. Imagine the transportation cost consumer need to pay

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

With pipeline construction, and electrolyzer build out, costs could go back to 1950's levels for cars.

@leerizer

2 ай бұрын

@@FlameofDemocracy Current cost to build O&G pipeline is around $10m per mile in US. How many trillion is needed to cover just America ?

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

Pipelines for energy in the US are the easiest money possible. The lifetime profits streams are quite considerable. @@leerizer

@twothbeave

2 ай бұрын

@@FlameofDemocracyvirtually impossible to create a pipelines to stations. Are you for real? Thats totally illogical. You are gonna run pipelines for hundreds of miles for a niche market? That would cost billions.

@twothbeave

2 ай бұрын

@@leerizerand H2 pipelines would be hugely more expensive as it requires extreme high pressure and low temp. As well as the fact that it destroys everything vessel used to contain it. It’s very volatile and extremely prone to leaking. And once it leaks it’s a powerful greenhouse gas.

3 Hydrogen tanks used in those cars cost similar to Tesla 75kWh battery :) Thank You

The EV Car is the Future, Simply

@ohger1

2 ай бұрын

For many of us, the car of today..

@IsaacGbornor_gv

2 ай бұрын

@@ohger1 may it reach out turn very soon , could you imagine, now that I was able to buy BMW E39. ,M5 , I couldn't buy it 25 years ago because I can't afford it 😀😀😀😀 , maybe I will buy Tesla ,or Lucid ,or BYD ,or Volvo EV etc in 25 years later 😀😀😀😀, You Guys are enjoying the future Car now ,You Guys are the Best ,i have never buy a tie Rubber Car 😀😀😀 , Enjoy the Future Guys ,you are the Best ,

I never liked hydrogen as a fuel, it just replaces petrol as a resource to control, transport, manufacture etc. and you STILL have to go to a refuelling station. Stupidest idea ever.

The best possible scenario is to have a hydrogen generator at home powered by solar panels. Because of efficiency loss you would need 4 to 5 times the area in solar panels to fuel your car, compared to an electric car. You’re looking at $100,000 worth of panels if they would all fit on your roof.

Here in california, you can buy a Toyota Mirai that is a mere 3 years old for around $12k. This is a very luxurious and wonderful. I have driven in them. Fabulous experience for the passenger. Like a BMW 7 Series. Spacious, quiet. However, they are being dumped because at the current price of H2, it costs more to fill up a tank than a 20 MPG old fashioned gas car. California forced manufacturers to offer these alternative cars and vast sums of engineering resources were wasted on making a small production run of the hydrogen and natural gas cars. Hydrogen cars are the dumbest idea, all forced on consumers by government legislation. Should never let the govt get involved in engineering decisions, they are completely incompetent. I guarantee you that the engineers at the auto firms knew it was dumb, but the State of CA forced them to do it.

@douglaswatt1582

2 ай бұрын

By forced you mean paid them handsomely to come up with this screen door in a submarine technology?

@danshillabeer9523

2 ай бұрын

Sounds like the voice of anti-government ideology rather than a vehicle analysis? This legislation is happening worldwide, as governments realise that without it we're *all* screwed.

I had a propane fuel car back in the eighties… It was a great car to drive and cheap to maintain…

@wizzyno1566

2 ай бұрын

Propane doesnt have hydrogens issues.

@williammeek4078

2 ай бұрын

@@wizzyno1566but it does still release CO2.

Here in the Netherlands, much to my surprise, I was picked up by one of our own nexo’s.. Contrary to what you say, our filling stations have an unlimited supply of hydrogen, as they are filled not by trucks, but via pipelines. And our organisation pay €0 per kg.

If this tech is so good , it has been around for a long time yet there is very little infrastructure for it, and stations are closing down in the world. Yet EV's have been around a shorter time technically but yet there is more infrastructure for them and it is only growing also with the prices are coming down for the cars. I think the world has already decided the answer in this argument.

@ohger1

2 ай бұрын

Exactly. "Infrastructure" for an EV is anywhere there is an AC outlet - which is pretty much anywhere. Of course, many of those will offer slow charging but electricity is everywhere and always will be.

Just sitting and parking your Hydrogen car for a long time will mean all of the H2 leaking out of the tank system right through the tank walls so not driving the car is not a solution to not using expensive hydrogen in any case.

From car and Driver: "Today's stations can often only fuel two to five vehicles before they go offline for up to half an hour to repressurize." So my take on that is that on many occasions if a station was used even moderately, expect a longer wait to fill up with hydrogen than an ev.

Sweet about $350 AUS dollars to go 600km. In our economic climate. That spells the death of it before it starts. Just another waste of taxpayer's money. And being ripped of by fuel companies.

If a hydrogen car leaks (hydrogen is the most leaky gas of all), even going through metals, and if it explodes it causes a much more forceful and power explosion injuring people a hundred feet away or more even blowing out windows. Far more dangerous if it explodes than gasoline.

What about service cost? What are the required service schedule? Lots of moving parts like an ICE Travelling with a powder keg - talk about EV’s self igniting, which we know is bs but what about having hydrogen right next to you, how safe?

My customer bought 2 Mirai in the same color. I was sure he bought it for those free fuel. I wonder how they fell now that fueling stations are being taken down?

Also, hydrogen filling stations are ridiculously expensive to build circa $5 M!

Dear Sam, I generally trust all your information. But regarding the explosion at the hydrogen station outside Oslo; at Sandvika in 2019, there were not any seriously wounded. This is a notice in the press at that time: "June 10, 2019 at 7:52 pm Two to A&E after explosion Two people have been sent to the emergency room with minor injuries after the explosion at a hydrogen station in Sandvika, police said. The reason is said to have been that the airbag has been triggered by the pressure of the explosion."

Spitting facts today! Yes, 99% of the Hydrogen experts don't mention the cost of the hydrogen I wonder why?

my rav4 has AWD and over 170hp and gets 320 miles range and can be refilled for $25-$35 depending on prices,

Big Oil must love H2 cars.....

what about maintenance? is it similar to ICE, better or worse?

@jimgraham6722

2 ай бұрын

Maintenance of the high pressure tanks costly

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

@@jimgraham6722 Not to mention the fuel cell.

Like the concept of Comercial hydrogen but it's very complex technology for individual sale for pov.

Driving one of these will be like sitting in a metal coffin on top of neon green Wildfire from Game of Thrones:)

This is probably more like a scale of the business thing. right now EV's winning out because they came first and there for the infrastructure is largely in place. Though you could also say that is not at all in place. they say at least in my home country that if just 10% of people on a street get a EV car, and they charge them at the same time, the power net will go out because the capacity is not there. So what needs to happen, is it pulling up the streets in all major cities to get cables down that can support it, this to me seems like it will get very expensive. Also, it is probably about how much the hydrogen technology gets to develop. You saw this with nuclear power, it is really expensive to build, but if it had enough support to develop over the years from when it was invented, it would probably give way more power today and the security of it would be top. In my country EV infrastructure gets way more subsidies than hydrogen, this is also a major thing to take into consideration before saying it is to expensive because when everyone has gone to EV cars all the money they get from diesel or Benzin cars will be put on EV and I do not think they are going to get much cheaper more like they will get more expensive. As it is now the people that earn the least cannot afford the EV cars already, so I do not see EV cars taking the whole market.

@Zripas

Ай бұрын

"right now EV's winning out because they came first and there for the infrastructure is largely in place" Well... Kind of, but not really. While electric car came out before hydrogen one did, those have been terrible for long time while hydrogen cars basically got their peak performance from the start. Thing is that BEV infrastructure is all over the place and it costs little to nothing in comparison to hydrogen stations. "they say at least in my home country that if just 10% of people on a street get a EV car, and they charge them at the same time, the power net will go out because the capacity is not there" Maybe, because people fail to understand that electric grids expand over time, especially with increased demand. So what those people are saying is extremely wrong. They are talking about TODAY'S grid no being able to handle BEV's charging at same time. First of all, 10% of all cars charging at same time would be basically the peak requirement when you have 100% of cars as on the road as BEV's, that aside, it will take years, maybe decades to get to the point where this 10% charging at same time would become reality. "So what needs to happen, is it pulling up the streets in all major cities to get cables down that can support it, this to me seems like it will get very expensive" One BEV charging station costs around 50k, one hydrogen station costs over 1 million. On top of this, hydrogen needs around 60% more electricity to move your car same distance, so if you are afraid of BEV's charging at same time and grid not being able to handle it, then there is zero chance for hydrogen cars. "Also, it is probably about how much the hydrogen technology gets to develop" It wont, hydrogen fuel cell technology is at its peak due to basic laws of physics. There might be few % increase i performance, but nothing dramatical. "In my country EV infrastructure gets way more subsidies than hydrogen" Because there is no point in having hydrogen cars and there is no point in subsidizing those. "As it is now the people that earn the least cannot afford the EV cars already, so I do not see EV cars taking the whole market." BEV's are relatively new and new technology is always more expensive. Prices are going down and for people who uses their cars more often to get BEV is cheaper than to use any other car.

Hydrogen stations require at least 12 or more semi tank trunk tankers of hydrogen to refill a station for the same amount of fuel needed to fill 1 tanker full worth of gasoline cars for a gas car station. Hydrogen cars do not seem to have much more if any more range than an ev and vastly inferior power/acceleration performance versus an ev on the same fill up. The same cars will have much less usable space in the vehicle with cramped quarters than an ev. 90 percent or more of the time for most owners with an ev you will fill at home anyway and can do so for nearly free if have solar. We fill up at home. At a cost of less than 10 dollars total for 250-300 miles.

What I haven't seen directly mentioned is the cost to the planet. What a freakin waste of renewable energy! Worth noting that a big North Sea wind farm project has just ditched H2 and gone for straight HVDC transmission to a UK interconnector. Michael Liebrich's hydrogen ladder put the writing on the wall for this nonsense ages ago. New battery tech will thankfully deal the final blow to big oil's delaying tactic.

H2 is the smallest molecule and therefore highly elusive. Because of its properties energy intensive measures must be taken to keep it contained. And even then it will dissipate over time. The only reason it is pushed is because most of the current H2 is a byproduct from the fossil fuel industry. And naturally they want to sell this as an alternative to BEVs. Of course green H2 can be produced using electrolyzers with regenerative energy. But its still more efficient to store it directly in a battery - at least when it comes ro EV.

@TB-up4xi

2 ай бұрын

H2O is water , I think you mean just H2 (the hydrogen diatomic molecule as it appears in gas form).

They really are cheap in the states. It's just the charging issue. Sorry the refueling issue.

@jamesvandamme7786

2 ай бұрын

Pointless.

Daniel Dingel Pilipino engineer he invented hydrogen reactor he introduced 1969 to the Philippines but Philippine government not interested to develop or to help Daniel Dingel for the future car and free environment as well and owned Filipino engine..now US and Japan they spend millions of Dollars to develop this idea of Daniel Dingel they are now profiting billions of dollars..

Stellantis investing as well a lot in hydrogen. They have in Europa some delivery vehicles Opel Movano and Toyota soothing.

@jamesvandamme7786

2 ай бұрын

It might make sense for vehicles that have to run all day. and come back to a central location. Maybe.

$227.00 - 380 miles My IONIQ cost less than $8.00 95% of the time. On a trip maybe 30 to 40 dollars. Aerosmith says "Dream On"

Grid electricity is also an extremely expensive future fuel. Nobody knows yet, just like hydrogen fuel, the infrastructure, the grid and substations, cost to construct new is horrendously expensive. The extra grid capacity expansion construction costs are ignored in all nuclear posts. Nobody does the calculations. Yes, I know the existing grid is available, but grid electricity is only 15% to 18% of all energy used. And grid electricity is 66% grid costs, in todays electricity bills. 100years to build the existing national grid and maintenance costs and work teams add to the ongoing. New build costs in busy streets and constant electricity demand 24/7 is massive costs. More cross-country towers on the world's longest construction sites, more massive costs🙄 😮😢😢😢 Rooftop electricity has NO NEW GRID CONSTRUCTION COSTS 😅😊😊😊 Selfplug-in V2G EVs' computer and big battery will be the most valuable home plug-in on the planet.

@stephenbrickwood1602

2 ай бұрын

@ejogsig9544 do me a favour and repeat these things. I write out points on notes and then copy and paste them into a comment post. My background gives me insights, and the promoters give facts that apply to themselves in a critical way that they avoid in their following bs. As I said, pull together info and past copies.

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

In terms of congestion and curtailment, ignoring hydrogen means continuing to absorb billions in opportunity costs.

@stephenbrickwood1602

2 ай бұрын

@FlameofDemocracy hydrogen could have been used for decades, but it has always been too expensive.

On top of the expense and lack of infrastructure, you're driving around on a tank of hydrogen!

Everyone believes that hydrogen powered ICE cars are “green’. Not so. Burning hydrogen with air (which is 80% nitrogen) as the oxidizer still creates oxides of nitrogen (NOX) which are the major cause of smog. A friend bought a hydrogen powered car here in Sacramento, California, at an most give away price, but in order to refuel it, he must make an appointment with the only refueling station with in 100 miles to fill up. 😮

Shall we also mention fuel cell hydrogen cars use a large lithium battery kinda like an EV. All the disadvantages of an EV with all the disadvantages of a fuel car. Nice.

@danielstefanovic2604

2 ай бұрын

The battery is pretty small though, more like the size of prius battery

What it costs is more carbon emissions than a gasoline car.

Renew Energy reports there we only minor injuries. The explosion was at the plant not the refuelling station.

@gigga8948

2 ай бұрын

Funny how liking something allows misinformation. 3 were injured and they weren't at the refuelling station they were nearby and the explosion set off their airbags. Lucky no one was in there!

The US has approx. 50 hydrogen stations across the country. Average price to fill the fuel cells is $60 US. This guy is totally wrong!

Now what is the cost of natural gas through the fuel cell? The quick refill time and longevity of steel tanks means electric hybrid trucks are doable today. You’ll never have enough power plants to replace all semi trucks if electric.

@TB-up4xi

2 ай бұрын

You can't use natural gas in a fuel cell it only works with hydrogen, we already have natural gas ICE cars.

Man. $15,000 in free fuel and $40,000 cash back is craaaaaazy

@HiggsBoson2149

2 ай бұрын

It's basically a throw away car. Once you've used up your $15k card, doubt you will even drive it out after that

Converting H2 to E-Fuel means it could be used in normal ICE cars or fuel cells, no infrastructure needed. Sure it's expensive, but over time, with more R&D and scale this could come down and even blending E-Fuels with fossil fuels would reduce C02 today, provided the H2 is green, if not it's a waste of time. Not saying EVs aren't wonderful and more energy efficient presently and will soon have double the range of present EVs with silicon anode tech., just sayin we shouldn't write off alternatives or investigate different technologies, the goal is zero pollution and C02, efficiency and cost are secondary. There are scientists/engineers working on safer micro porous materials to store H2 safety, in labs in Australia electrolysis is at over 95% efficiency and fuel cells are going through a period of massive R&D and investment.

These greedy people love to keep us in the loops to pay them to purchased the ice car then paying more for expensive maintenance and worst of all keep paying for the fuel endlessly through out ownership of the car. Is this monopoly scam or what?

Hydrogen is generated by electricity, so it can never be cheaper than electricity. And EVs accelerate faster than engine cars, also no engine noise, which means better driving experience for both the driver and pedestrians.

GO HYDROGEN IF YOU WANT TO WASTE 66% ENERGY 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️

Hyundai Nexo is much bigger than the Kona, it's even longer than the Tucson... If you want to compare it to some Hyundai EV, it would be more accurate to compare it to the Ioniq 5.

So it's only viable if you buy 1 each year then sell/scrap it. With the discounts for the 1st year.

The efficiency of green hydrogen is just so poor, so many losses along the way, if you have renewable electricity then just use it direct into the grid and charge your EV. I am all for renewables and reducing emissions etc, but Hydrogen cars are a lost cause.

A buyer of a Hydrogen car uses the $15K Fuel credit and throws the car away.

Hydrogen compagny Nikola Motor are DOOMED ‼️

Just to put his into perspective, a kilogram of H2 contains approx 50kWh of energy. So US$10 per kg would be 20ct/kWh which is an ok price imho. With diesel, you get 12kWh for around US$1 which is less than 10ct/kWh, so much cheaper.

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

Except the hydrogen will leak out of the tank and if you do not drive for a couple weeks you will need to fill up again. And the hydrogen engine is about half the efficiency of a diesel engine. So the potential energy math you are using is kinda thrown out the window. And by your own math above comparing $1 of diesel to $10 of hydrogen has the diesel substantially cheaper.

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

Motors are far more efficacious with energy inputs than engines. It isn't even a fair comparison.

@LilaKuhJunge

2 ай бұрын

@@5353Jumper Diesel is even cheaper (per kWh) than electricity in most countries.

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

@@LilaKuhJunge then used I efficiently. Which is why $ per kwh is not a good measure. Need to look at $ per mile/KM driven.

@garywozniak7742

2 ай бұрын

1kg of hydrogen only contains ~33.4kWh of energy.

Many Tesla hater tiktokers now says that Evs are dead, the solution is hydrogen... They've never owned a Tesla nor a Hydrogen car, but they still post that

As well, dont the tanks have a limited life and need to be replaced like a bbcue propane tank?

@ohger1

2 ай бұрын

Yes, and hydrogen is notoriously more difficult to store as it's a tiny molecule.

Let's compare at BMW i7 with a 101.7 kilowatt-hour and stated range of 388 miles. The average cost to the US home is 16.92 cents per kilowatt-hour. So, the i7 costs $17 to travel 388 miles, and a Hydrogen-Powered car costs $227. I'll bet the 16 that were sold in the US were bought by Toyota executives. 🤣

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

You will have to upgrade the battery at some point.

@PJRye

2 ай бұрын

@@FlameofDemocracyWhen? Batteries already offer at least 10 years' life.

@Liboch

2 ай бұрын

Battery technology is getting better by the day. When a single charge can get a 1,000-mile range, and cheaper, we can just install solar system which is also getting cheaper c/w battery storage system, the days of ICE and hydrogen cars will be just over. Edit: solar system in our house

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

@@FlameofDemocracy And you don't have to maintain a fuel cell or a high pressure gas storage system?

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

Battery degradation, is a major problem. Therefore, range anxiety grows for drivers over time. @@PJRye

I spend an average of $4 per week charging my Tesla Model 3 at home.

Fuel cell is complex. Where will you find a fuel cell repair technician?

@jamesvandamme7786

2 ай бұрын

Why bother, the car is worth nothing after your "free fuel" ticket runs out. Just chuck it.

That's around $1.25 per mile compared to 3 to 5 cents per mile with an EV. Are there people silly enough to buy into that? Seems like only those in the More Money than Brains Club could somewhat afford that. How do they con people into this? Best!

Even if they do tap into all these underground reservoirs the whole hydrogen deal is just way too complicated and expensive. Let's just keep things simple with EV's

Hydrogen fuel cars are a niche now but will be the future. The thing about hydrogen is that a lot of the existing infrastructure for storing and transporting fossil fuel, can be repurposed for storing and transporting hydrogen. Then for those people in Europe who live in apartments and can’t charge EVs at home, hydrogen fuel cars will be the way to go. I guess that after the 2030’s hydrogen fuel cars will be as popular as EVs are now. By 2035 we will have mostly hydrogen and EVs.

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

Not even close. Hydrogen is a very difficult thing to store, there is no way any existing fuel distribution will work. It all needs to be built from scratch.

@IMAN7THRYLOS

2 ай бұрын

@@5353Jumper There already infrastructure that stores and distributes LNG. This is liquified natural gas. Many who have built and invested in such infrastructure during the last 10 years have claimed that their investments are future proof and they are hydrogen ready. Let’s wait until the end of the decade and we will what will happen as more investments are purred into hydrogen technology.

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

@@IMAN7THRYLOS LNG facilities will not hold hydrogen. The hydrogen molecules are a lot smaller and more slippery than natural gas.

@s.vortex

2 ай бұрын

@@IMAN7THRYLOSNo way... 1. Liquefying hydrogen requires it to be chilled to -253℃ (not far from absolute zero), LNG requires -100℃ less. 2. For every unit of liquid LNG shipped it requires 2.4 times liquid hydrogen to be shipped to equal the same amount of energy. It has much less energy density. Google this article: "Hydrogen-Ready" LNG Infrastructure: An Uncertain Way Forward

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

@@IMAN7THRYLOS There are some HUGE gaps in your understanding and you draw some extremely flawed conclusions.

I feel like they didn’t learn from that blimp

It’s asinine as a fuel source. Beyond stupid. Not even for one or two reasons. For several.

"So what that it costs me 2 arms, 2 legs, a head, and a liver to refuel my hydrogen powered car - I'm saving the planet, so it's worth it..."

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

Except it is not saving the planet either. Full lifecycle hydrogen fuel is way worse than gasoline for Car(b)on emissions. Sadly still the only car lower lifecycle emissions than gasoline/diesel is a Hybrid/EV or just a bEV.

@geoffsimns8424

2 ай бұрын

@@5353Jumper So true (assuming Carmon was Carbon misspelt) - there is nothing "green" about creating hydrogen as a fuel - but, as in all things "green", don't let facts get in the way of the narrative...

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

@@geoffsimns8424 the hydrogen narrative is paid for by the petroleum companies. Kinda brings it into perspective of its potential benefits to the environment vs why someone wants it so much. They will do anything to keep us burning their fuels.

wow... thats about the end of hydrogen cars then. LOL. just imagin how much it would cost to fill a second hand hydrogen truck!

I wonder how many cars on average fuel up at a gas station each day - just like an average. That would be an interesting comparison.

@palm1231

2 ай бұрын

less than 24 a day, as you need 5 minutes for your car and then the station needs 1 hour to build the compressed hydrogen at 700 bars (10152 PSI) for the next car Explain me how this station, which costs about 2 millions $, is going to generate cash

Hydrogen powered vehicles are just like ICE vehicles that they need a hell lot of maintenance. With this servicing cost and cost of hydrogen gas it's a no brainer to even think of using hydrogen. power Many years ago I remember some countries used CNG (compressed natural gas) to power vehicles and it was relatively cheap. So this CNG vehicles will be a better alternative. .

How can Toyota run this production line...the development cost must have been costly, now they can't be fueled easily in their major target market. Who is the first legacy maker to fall over?

@sandcrabfin

2 ай бұрын

They have to run it because otherwise they would be in deep trouble as they wouldn't have any alternative story why anyone should invest in them.

Hydrogen fool cells 😂😂😂

While that is true now; that is to a significant extent due to the production of the hydrogen. If the USGS discovery of 200 tillion tons of captured hydrogen in the USA proves accessible that will change to just the cost of compressing the gas; which will be a large reduction. It will also make it much more green than the current grid which is mostly fossil fuel powered. In addition some claims have been made for new non compressed hydrogen storage which may make the vehicles lighter and hydrogen easier and less dangerous to transport - Hydrogen may still be the king.

@killthekraken

2 ай бұрын

The hydrogen pools they've been finding are mixed with methan. There isn't a lot of naturally occuring hydrogen without something else being mixed in.

@litestuffllc7249

2 ай бұрын

@@killthekraken Thats true so if it was your job; knowing hydrogen is very light and small comparted to methane; how would you separate them? Surely you can come up with a couple ways very quickly.

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

@@litestuffllc7249 Working with hydrogen is not as easy as you think it is, and it's also very dangerous.

@litestuffllc7249

2 ай бұрын

@@TheEvilmooseofdoom No but it is done every day; gasoline isn't that safe; lithium isn't safe, electricity isn't safe, all sorts of home chemicals aren't safe, driving down the road isn't safe; crossing the street isn't safe. How safe do you want to be? If you think an electric car using lithium is safe then hydrogen must be safer because at least something has to be done improperly to catch fire; where as a Lithium car can catch fire at any time.

@jamesvandamme7786

2 ай бұрын

Fossil hydrogen is nonrenewable. Our electric grid is getting greener all the time.

Cure for high prices, is high prices + time.

Let say put cost aside, wouldn't hydrogen powered vehicles be the ultimate eco friendly transportation?

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

The costs of hydrogen will come down as it becomes more available.

@RayNLA

2 ай бұрын

No

@BigTroyT

2 ай бұрын

No. It requires an incredible amount of energy to create hydrogen, even more energy to compress it into a gas, and then it still has to be transported over the road just like gasoline. It's something like 1/16th as efficient as an EV in overall energy usage. You are using a ton of electricity to make hydrogen so that the fuel cell can convert the hydrogen back into electricity, and all of those conversions have huge efficiency losses. Nothing comes close to an EV, and as improved batteries become more widespread, it will create an even larger disparity in total ownership costs. The new Tesla batteries using licensed CATL formulations charge twice as fast and hold about 30% more energy for the same size battery pack, for example. Those batteries are expected to roll out with the Model Y refresh.

@FlameofDemocracy

2 ай бұрын

Hydrogen cars have 30 to 40 times the energy of a normally charged battery, when the battery is new. @@BigTroyT

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

Most hydrogen cars today are higher emissions than gasoline/diesel because most hydrogen today is made using methane or coal in a process that is very high emissions. And very high energy. This is why petroleum companies are the ones that are promoting Hydrogen transportation, as it is yet another excuse to keep is burning inefficient fuels. There is no such thing as "green" hydrogen production for cars until all the hydrogen supply for industrial purposes is converted over to "green" hydrogen. But this will take massive amounts of green electricity so it is just one of the priorities.

I heard that the tanks and the whole car are trash only after 8 years or less? 10? because of the wearing age issues with the tank, hoses, components with the hydrogen gas wear and leak issues. Hydrogen destroys those components in no time.

Ive got an idea lets just keep ice cars which are better than anything else on offer.Then we can watch normal stuff on you tube without listening to the ev bores.

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

That's head up own ass thinking.

We currently have a limited number of green hydrogen refuelling station in Australia as part of the research into emerging technologies. They have a car that can do 600km on a single tank. We are in the process of developing the largest green hydrogen plant in the southern hemisphere.

@gigga8948

2 ай бұрын

Hahahahaha 600km for $400 hahaha suckers!

@Harrythehun

2 ай бұрын

The "research" term is often misused to get financial aid for a expensive meaningless project. Often there is low or no new information gained from the hydrogen projects, just asking someone else to pay the bills

@InformedKiwi

2 ай бұрын

About 200km of that tank is driving the stupid distance to the Hydrogen station. BUT it’s only 5 mins to fill while it drains your wallet

@josedearimateiayjesus2178

2 ай бұрын

Well done Australia!

@christianjack1250

2 ай бұрын

Australia should research nuclear powered car

It's called the Toyota con once again.

Hydrogen fuel cell is DOA.

Rather stick with gas instead then hydrogen lol

curious to know how how carbon neutral production of hydrogen is

@amraceway

2 ай бұрын

Not at all.

@johnlodge8546

2 ай бұрын

97 percent of all commercially available Hydrogen is produced by Steam Reformation plants. It takes 6.2 Mwh's of heat energy, 2.2 tons of Methane, and 4.9 tons of water to produce 1.1 tons of Hydrogen. Then it has to be super cooled or compressed consuming more energy, then transported to retail locations requiring more energy. In the end it produces more pollution than just using the original input energy required to generate electricity. Secondly the resultant electricity is used even more efficiently.

@jamesvandamme7786

2 ай бұрын

Mostly reformed from fossil methane, until they build the pipeline to the sun.

And here he is and who is being bagged today because it's not BATTERY EV, well today its hydrogen, yesterday if was Ford, I thought this was an information site on EV's not a site to bag everything and anything and anybody any company that is not BYD or Tesla.

$227 to fill a hydrogen car? In comparison, it costs $7.20 to fill my Tesla model 3 with electricity Hydrogen cars operational costs are 30 times more expensive than battery electric cars

Wait until you service a hydrogen engine, just like ICE car they make shit load on services and parts. That's why it is only good for planes and trucks.

I don't get it. I didn't major in math, tho. Looks like these people didn't major in marh either! Guess people just wanna be different? Sad

There is nowhere Hydrogen. There is not. Not in the EU Not in Africa Not in Asia. Not in Russia. There is Not. BEV is everywhere. Rooftop Solar Charge Point BEV. Ready to Go. How many Rooftop Solar Panels do you have Sam????❤

Toyota Hydrogen Dreams are over. They are dumping the last of their cars and no replacement In sight despite their CEO lying to customers to sell the last of this dead platform

Can the fueling station blow up like a hydrogen bomb?

@308_Negra_Arroyo_Lane

2 ай бұрын

A "hydrogen bomb" is a nuclear bomb.

@jamesvandamme7786

2 ай бұрын

No, but it would still make a big bang.

@stevenchow408

2 ай бұрын

@@308_Negra_Arroyo_Lane I know just kidding

There is a reason. There was a reason for the extra componentry of the invention of the hydrogen fuel cell since hydrogen fuel cell cars have a lithium battery and electric motors the same as EVs. It was to cure the problem of charge wait time. That's why they invented hydrogen fuel cell. So what if the installed capacity of solar or wind has to function for 33% longer to fill a tank with hydrogen rather than fill a power bank with electric charge... You can transfer the hydrogen to the vehicle instantly. You have two reasons for the misinformation that hydrogen fuel cells are not a functioning viable idea when in fact they are. One is lithium extraction and commodities trading... And the other is fossil fuels fighting not to be replaced. That's why they wage such adamant disinformation campaigns denigrating the superiority of hydrogen fuel cell

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

What nonsense. Did you make that up or get it spoon fed to you?

Can you compare the cost of 'filling up' an EV from a commercial charger with an ICE car? I hear some EV owners are quite upset at the cost as well.

@louiesamuel9189

2 ай бұрын

I charge at home. I’ve just over 30 solar panels on my roof and that provides for all the electricity I need to run my house and car, though I do fast charge on occasion.

@miguellopes6669

2 ай бұрын

Depends on the country. In Germany it's about 2x cheaper than diesel. Not to mention many companies offer for free for employees. I'm currently saving 2000e per year with my Tesla just on fuel costs, as I can charge for free. Otherwise, charging at home I would be saving 1000e. In countries like Portugal, the night charging is 4x cheaper than Germany, so even when the company doesn't pay for it, it's still super cheap

@garywozniak7742

2 ай бұрын

A Tesla Model 3 uses ~0.251kWh combined city/highway. Let pick 30 miles. The Tesla Model 3 standard range would use. 30mi × 0.251kWh/mi = 7.53kWh of electricity. It California where both electricity and gasoline are expensive the rkectric rate is $0.33/kWh. 7.53kWh × $0.33/kWh = $2.48 for electricity. Gasoline in CA is $4.80/gal. A car that get 30mpg would cost $4.80 to fuel for a 30 mile trip. If you hit a public charger charging $0.50/kWh it would cost $3.76 to charge the Tesla.

no no no they are not petrol ICE have 4 times the punch than Hydrogen

Don't bother witb hydrogen feul cars. Might as well stick with petro. Still need to delivery hydrogen feul to stations. And with EVs which can be charged at home.

How many billions us government gave to eletrics? Thats why other and better tecnologies cannot surpass the number of recharge stations

@neilkurzman4907

2 ай бұрын

You understand that these hydrogen vehicles are not electric. They are internal combustion.

I do think that hydrogen will continue to be expensive in the short term, but once we get more green hydrogen on board, it may be economical for cars. It will form part of the mix leading to zero emissions.

@gigga8948

2 ай бұрын

What ! refuelling on a farm for machinery. Tell us how?

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

It's a fools errand, and always has been and always will be.

@InformedKiwi

2 ай бұрын

World wide Hydrogen stations are closing. Not new ones opening. Have you taken your meds today?

@garywozniak7742

2 ай бұрын

Hydrogen is a waste of energy no matter the electrical source.

@5353Jumper

2 ай бұрын

Dirty brown/grey/blue/black hydrogen is currently used in agriculture, medicine, metals, and many other commercial chemistry applications. It is one of the larger sources of carbon emissions in the world. BEFORE we can even consider any hydrogen made for new applications like transportation as "green" we FIRST need to clean up and green all the existing hydrogen demand. There is no "green" hydrogen for cars if we are still using dirty hydrogen in other industries.

Cannot understand why you would knock hydrogen fuel cell technology. It's no different to batteries & EVs. If it works it will grow & prices will fall.

@M.-.D

2 ай бұрын

No, there is functional differences. Current technology does not support the claims.

@TheEvilmooseofdoom

2 ай бұрын

All you have done is demonstrate how deeply ignorant you actually are.

@neilkurzman4907

2 ай бұрын

Hydrogen fuel cells have limitations that make them problematic for you and automobiles. They’ve been trying to fit them into automobiles since the 90s. Perhaps even before that. I believe they’re working on a combination of fuel cells and batteries to try and deal with the issues

@neildolan7177

2 ай бұрын

@@M.-.D so what you saying is Hyundai & are making cars that don't work??

@neildolan7177

2 ай бұрын

@@neilkurzman4907 I am 60 years old & battery cars were just around the corner then. Truth is lies & deceit have stopped battery development. The sold state battery has been around for decades. Now they are close to reality. Hydrogen cars exist & therefore they have to be a viable alternative at some point.