What do you think gives a bike it's own unique character and 'soul'?🚴

@user-tg9oq1vx3k

5 ай бұрын

Every bike has a character and it's own charm! I've got plenty modern bikes, and couple of retro bikes, and every single one gives me unique gorgeous feeling riding it!

@saturday7

5 ай бұрын

The bond grows with mileage ridden. All the little idiosyncrasies become endearing, lending character to the bike. The relationship stronger with time. There's always that one special bike isn't there.

@jordyd8916

5 ай бұрын

My own memories with it. I really don't, and neither should you, care about the opinions from others. I now ride my bike for 18 years. Every scratch on the frame is a memory. Every new part is due to defect. The semi frankenbike I now ride Is the love of my life. (don't tell my wife and children though plz) Replacing only defect parts, by same grade or better parts. Nothing screams soulesness like a brand new bike to me,

@metaliumtux

5 ай бұрын

Hey guys! Would you like to try a vintage frameset with modern components?

@mgrant6607

5 ай бұрын

Sure. Willier makes one. How about same retro bike but just modern pedals?

I wonder how much different the results would be for a rider who'd trained for the retro bike's gearing. And worn the right shoes for clips & straps.

@ZaydDepaor

5 ай бұрын

Please don't point out any foolishness and flaws of these supposed 'experiments', it isn't conducive to continuously marketing expensive & unnecessary tech-gimmicks.

@gregmuon

4 ай бұрын

Indeed. I started in the tail end of that era. People trained to climb out of the saddle, had rippling triceps, and knew how to pull up on the pedals for particularly steep sections using their slotted cleat shoes and straps. Also, the wheels would have had 300g rims with 230g tubulars. Low rotational mass helps a lot when climbing in big gears.

@swordmonkey6635

4 ай бұрын

@@gregmuon Yeah. Cyclists. Even in the 1980s looked different than the lanky riders we see now. They were more normal looking outside of the big leg and ripped arm muscles. Racing back then required more of the entire body. Watching the small Columbians tackling the TDF climbs was great.

@gartgreenside3657

4 ай бұрын

Also, cycling is for fun, so ride what's fun (for you), not necessarily what's fastest.

Big props to the camera operators and editors - this episode feels even more stylish and cinematic than usual!

It comes down to what you're used to. I'm 63 and my first road bike (early 80s) was comparable to Eddy's. They all were in those days. Yep, what us club riders rode were comparable to Tour de France kit. When I was in Ashford wheelers, I rode in a woolen jersey and wooden soled road shoes with leather uppers and cleats with a recess that fitted the edge of the pedal. I had a steel Woodrup bike with Reynolds 531c tubing, Turbo saddle, Campag Nouvo Record groupset and a knee-cracking 18-13 freewheel (a six speed 'straight through' block). It was a beauty and I climbed well on it. However, I did that graceful side fall on a number of occasions, tackling the North Downs, here in Kent. Like most others, I now have a carbon bike with seemingly endless gears - Giant Defy Advanced 2. There's no way I would go back to that first bike now, at least not on a regular basis, but it had just as much soul and I found cycling equally addictive as now. We didn't know any better or easier!

@wiscgaloot

4 ай бұрын

I'm 61 and still ride a Coppi that is nearly identical except that I put bar-end shifters on it and switched away from sew-ups to clinchers. I still love riding that bike.

@ianlaker9161

4 ай бұрын

@@wiscgaloot yep, tubs were a pain in the arse when they punctured, so same switching here too. Ride on my friend.

@justlovelyaintit

4 ай бұрын

Same story as mine.

@slimz2258

Ай бұрын

I'm 70 and I, too, started racing in the 1970s on a sweet steel Woodrup with all Campy Nuovo Record components. I sold it after a few years to get another in a string of bespoke 531 steel racing bikes. But, you always remember your first, so in 2012 I tracked down that gorgeous Woodrup frameset, bought it back, spread the rear triangle to accept modern 130mm wide hubs, and rebuilt it with more modern components. I also ride newer bikes - in fact my wife and I are having a new state-of-the-art tandem built for us as a write this - but no bike brings a smile to my face like the old Woodrup. I agree with Si that it may be just an old bike to everyone else, but it clearly has a soul to me because of the thousands of miles we rode together.

I was a teenager when Campy Chorus was introduced and it has been the object of my desire until in my 50's I could afford to build a full Campagnolo bike with, of course, Chorus groupset. It was worth the wait. Every rider that passes me out on the road (I'm not that fast) sees me smiling because my bike has soul and the history of cycling within it.

@marcpikas2859

5 ай бұрын

The new bike doesn’t offer as many smiles per mile. Is going faster the only purpose of a bicycle ? Wouldn’t trade my 35 y/o steel Bianchi for a plastic bike. Plus it’s got 200K km.

@n22pdf

5 ай бұрын

I also ride Chorus 11 speed on 2 of my bikes beautiful 😊 I also ride steel and titanium bikes, mechanical to 😊 love it.. Pete

@mctrials23

5 ай бұрын

@@marcpikas2859 What if I told you a bike can be fast and make you happy ...

@marcpikas2859

5 ай бұрын

@@mctrials23I would understand… been there done that!

@dl6urk88

4 ай бұрын

I like your story

My top of the line Peugeot PX 10 was around $250 in 1969 - Simplex not Campy. One of my professors picked up a custom Campy Masi for $500 in 1971. Someone remarked to him how expensive that was and that (at the time) you could get a drivable used car for that. He replied “oh, I wouldn’t spend that much on a car…

@bobblowhard8823

4 ай бұрын

Brilliant. Much respect and kudos to your professor.

@MegaSockenschuss

4 ай бұрын

People are ignorant. Masi's frames are beautiful pieces of art.

@bobblowhard8823

4 ай бұрын

@@MegaSockenschuss I have to agree with you, my brother.

Entertaining as ever Si, but not at all a surprising result for your thought experiment, and I don’t think you are quite addressing the question that people really want to know. I think it would be much more interesting to see the actual performance differences if you tested modern kit (clothing, pedals, gears/shifting, wheels) on a retro steel frame against a fully modern setup. I think that would close that 6% gain to something much more marginal! Cheers!

@jonglass

5 ай бұрын

I’d be happy if he just wore the modern clothes and pedals, and keep the bike other than pedals. The hill climb wouldn’t change I don’t think, but I’m curious about that time trial. In fact a gradual change from full retro to as modern as possible on the vintage frame would make for an interesting video I’d think.

@outtrigger

5 ай бұрын

GCN viewers are never happy with new videos lol. Everyone's a critic these days I guess

@veganpotterthevegan

5 ай бұрын

Fully modernize the old bike and the numbers will certainly be smaller. But make it a 40k test and it'll still be a sizeable difference. Round tubes and exposed cables are terribly unaerodynamic.

@veganpotterthevegan

5 ай бұрын

@jonglass exposed cables alone are quite bad. Averaging only 3w more, I gained about 35 seconds in a 40k tt on the same course using an aluminum Cervelo P3 vs using a Cannondale Ironman 800. The tube shapes weren't that different. Maybe the P3 seat tube gave me a few seconds but the cables are terrible. *This was a full component swap from bike to bike. The frame was the only difference

@marcpikas2859

5 ай бұрын

⁠did you eat and weigh the same for both tests? I’d say 100 km would be more conclusive…

the clip clop of Si's shoes when walking up the hill was so loud that if Monty Python and the Holy Grail was ever remade they could replace the coconut sound effects for the horse.

You should make a video trying to determine which was the best looking Campagnolo group set in the Aluminium era. The times before all things turned black and shining silver dominated. The one shown in this video was groundbreaking at the time. But late 80s or early 90s produced some beauties, still unmatched today.

@rockytalkndawoods3057

5 ай бұрын

"friends don't let friends ride Shimano" 💪🏼

@Thetoad738

4 ай бұрын

1986-1990 Campagnolo C record groupset with Delta brakes. Hands down the nicest ever.

@alexandreboyenval3140

4 ай бұрын

@@Thetoad738c record with Cobalto super record brakes, for me.

Both bikes are wonderful in their way. 40-something seconds though? I think I may just be at a point in my cycling life (62) where 40 seconds doesn't matter much vs. just being on the bike. Wouldn't throw the Condor out of the garage, though...

Cycled in the 70s in northern Spain. Easiest gear was 42/21. We all just stood up. I could stand up for an hour without much trouble. We did climbs over 15 % all the time with several over 20%.

@ScottyCycles

5 ай бұрын

53/42 11-21 Made me a great climber.

@geraintroberts7212

5 ай бұрын

Yeah. Legs like steam hammers but I think my knees regret it 😕

@Kimberlietriracer25

5 ай бұрын

Older riders were significantly stronger and had a different mindset. .. friction and drag acted on the rider in higher ratios so you had to work harder for the same results. How lucky you were to get to ride in that environment.

@ProfRCook

5 ай бұрын

@@geraintroberts7212 Yeah.... my old knees complain, but I'm still riding!

@ProfRCook

5 ай бұрын

@@Kimberlietriracer25 I was very lucky. Jose Manuel Fuentes retired, had a bike shop in Oviedo, and did a little coaching for me. It wasn't until years later I realized just how great a rider he had been.

Nice to see a Condor and Campagnolo in a video.

The test was done without the rider getting used to the bike. Before my Campagnolo was a $5 bike I repaired at work in early 1970s. Rode it everyday to Shell Shipping Gore Bay from Collaroy (from sea level to 2 highest points in Sydney back to sea level). On my way would deviate to pick up 50 pound gym weights for repair or engine heads and strap them to the rear of the bike as the carrier had a large sheet steel (copious lunch) box . Mid way trip going down Roseville bridge would pass the cars at unknown speed but the limit is 80klm/hr. These round trips were about 50-60 kilometers. One day with very little Shell sponsorship entered a race from Manly to Cronulla which included top competition riders. Couldn't believe I was in front most of the way but the crank cotter pin started to loosen so had to pull into a garage to borrow a hammer, this happened a few time till I saw the bunch go past while hammering. Half a klm to go and both cranks were facing down so I scooted the rest. When reaching the finish line the winners were left standing on the podium when the media rushed over to see the weird situation. Moral of the story is 1/ Always race with the bike you train on. 2/ Hard (inadvertent) training counts more than equipment. 3/ Consensus at the time was the skinnier the tyre the better and I was riding wide tyres which has now been proven to be faster. 4/ Happy carefree riding makes better results than unhappy regimented training. . btw once a happy grinder always a grinder.

Couple things: 1. Videos like this is why Si is my favorite presenter (everyone else is a very close second 😉). 2. I totally agree with the idea of a bike having a soul only after you have experiences and adventures with it. Great video!

I love the way this video was put together. I love both modern and old bikes. I have a fully restored 23 year old Cove mtb that I raced 24 events on in the early 2000s ,fully kitted out in Shimano XTR and the gear shifting is still to this day amazing. I love my occasional rides on it despite it feeling tiny compared to modern "large" bikes. Happy Christmas Si and the team. Looking forward to loads of new content in 2024

Faster does not necessarily mean it is better. I have modern and vintage bikes but despite modern bikes being quicker I prefer to ride my older and steel bikes. Maybe that makes them better? Or maybe not!!

@gcn

5 ай бұрын

It's all down to perspective! Where will you be taking your steel bikes on their next adventure? 👀

I agree with Si’s comment about soul. It’s about how the bike makes you feel. I started racing on an SLX steel frame with 1st gen Campagnolo Athena and fell in love with Italian components. I’ve raced on Campy at all levels from Daytona to SR. I’ve also raced on Ultegra and Ultegra Di2. All of them work fine but I feel more invincible on Campy. My main bike these days is a Basso with Chorus and Bora wheels and Assioma pedals for the full Italian, and it just feels good to ride.

Top notch again.. Thanks GCN and Simon for another great vid.

Great video! Would be interesting to see a modern steel bike decked like the Condor, and compare to the Merkx

I love this episode. That Merckx is absolutely gorgeous. It speaks to my sense of nostalgia and my actual start into the world of fast bikes. I have been complaining for years about Campy's offerings but the wireless SR looks amazing. If offered one of those beauties, I honestly would have a tough time choosing.

Great video, I really enjoyed it. I think it's clear from numerous tests that modern bikes provide more than marginal gains over the classics, increasingly so as you drift back into the toe clips and friction shifter era. On the other hand, apples-to-apples comparisons also reveal that the differences are not earth shattering, and you can probably fit into your average club ride just fine on a classic, especially if you are in better shape than your peers. The real key is what I call the "fun factor," which is quite subjective, but I think can be equally high on either bike. Objectively, the modern bike with its improved comfort, wider gear range, smaller gear jumps, indexed shifting, and better braking is going to provide a more enjoyable ride. However, the classic can be great fun, especially if you know what you're getting into. Where the classic has it all over this Condor, though, is when you realize that it's been awhile since you charged your derailleurs and you're a long way out when one goes dead. Campagnolo says to expect 750 km between charges, providing it's not too cold and you don't do an excessive amount of shifting. 750 km? Really? REALLY? Pretty much a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and has Campy committed to making spare batteries available 10, 20, 30 years down the road when they need replacement? Not as far as I have seen. A component can't work better when it's not working at all.

Wholeheartedly echo Si's sentiments! In the world of cycling, vintage bicycles carry the soulful imprints of their riders, weaving tales of adventures and memories. This transcendent connection isn't limited to just bicycles; it extends to other nostalgic treasures like furniture, each infused with a unique spirit by its possessor. As we pedal through time, today's sleek cycles and contemporary furnishings are destined to metamorphose into the cherished relics of future enthusiasts, embracing the enduring cycle of nostalgia.

My 1979 Puch is still my primary road bike. I put 2,500 miles a year on it.

I tested the prototype of EPS in 2007, it was incredible and still is a brilliant product

These are among my favorite GCN episodes. Thank you!

I know not possible, but the proper test is to do the rides on consecutive days, as exhaustion will skew the results. That said, the real difference between the bikes is likely much greater than you recorded. I personally am more motivated by what the bike can do to help me out, a little bling is nice. I remember kitting my bike with Campy stuff in the 70’s. What else would you get? Lusting for those beautiful cranks. Well, I now have pimped my ride, with 35 mm rims on my Turbo Levo ebike, with new Purple Hayes hydraulic brakes, and a more swept SQLab handle bars to save my poor wrists. No, riding is MUCH more fun with modern tech. In a sense you choice of Campy was perfect, because they actually are also too enamored of their beautiful past, and have let the world pass them by. Give me tech! Thanks for the show!

On our group ride yesterday (just under 100km), a friend brought out his "new" Univega with friction shifters and 6 speed cassette. It was beautiful and brought back memories of my first real bike - a steel Bianchi with downtube shifters (though mine were indexed). I asked afterwards if it was a good idea, bad idea, or a fun bad idea to have ridden it on a group ride. He said it was a hell of a challenge - I don't believe he'll be giving up his TCR anytime soon. It was (is) a cool bike, but I think I'll stick with my new ones.

@JayLato

5 ай бұрын

Friction shifters can adapt to new gearing, he can swap the the derailleurs, hub, chain, cassette, and chainset all to 12 speed Mechanical and his old bike can hang.

Really enjoyed the vid. My 1980's Raleigh RecordAce had similar gearing and after failing to get up some hills on the last big ride ten years ago I gave it to a younger, fitter friend who absolutely loves it. I switched to a Trek Madone, but that has now been relegated to being on a trainer because back in 2020 at the beginning of the Covid lockdown I wrote to Greg Lemond (my hero) asking about the provenance of an E-Bay Lemond bike supposedly built in Italy from the pre-Trek (pre-Lance Armstrong) days. I received a very moving reply urging me to get over my anti-Trek (anti Armstrong) feelings and just get out there and ride. That conversation morphed into Lemond building me a Washoe from their 2012 line-up. Of course it had to have a Campag groupset which took some finding by Scott, Greg's son as the world supply was gobbled up as Covid swept the world. Scott took charge of the project and I now ride a stunningly beautiful steel bike which simply makes me smile. Sadly I don't ride it enough (major health issues in 2023) but am back on it now. Yes, it is less than 4 years old, but it has soul. I think that it was delivered with soul, but any bike that makes me smile every time I look at it has more than soul. It has magic. The carbon Madone can stay on the trainer, even the (once-) trendy Trek Urban stays hanging in the garage. To have middle-aged rich guys on their Specialised S-Works stop me on the bike trail just to admire the LeMond adds to the joy.

All we ever rode 70s 80s long distance hostel trips mid winter, snow ice wind rain hail 42-25 over Park rash etc etc etc etc, thought nothing of it like Eddy said lol great vid Simon 👍

Nice video showing the change in technology over the years. At the end of the day the rider determines the results of a ride.

Hey Si ive rode that climb its a bloody beast great content as usual.

I rode a Peugeot bike similar to yours, but much cheaper in the Alps in the late 70s, today it would be a great route for my e-MTB 😉 And if you tightened the straps on the pedal too tightly, the tips of your toes will eventually rot or you will simply fall over when you stop, which is always welcome at a traffic light

My dad had an old post war tube & rag aircraft, a 1946 Aeronca Champ that was _painfully_ slow & otherwise limited, but he kinda had a point when he’d ask other pilots why, if they liked flying so much, they were in such a big freaking hurry to get there. I’m much the same way with bikes, & the vast, vast majority of other riders _could_ be. _Most_ of us aren’t betting our livelihoods on a podium finish. My fastest bike is a 35 old Paramount, & the go-to daily mile-maker is a 33 yr old LeTour while the town bikes are another couple of elderly Schwinns. Compared to a new road racer the LeTour is a _tank_ & the Paramount’s not much lighter, but there really is something about those bikes that going faster doesn’t replace. Forty seconds over 5.7K translates to 15 minutes or so over 200K, & I’d really rather have the additional 15 minutes - or 20 or more on the LeTour. You were talking about soul or character - guess who’s bikes get attention everywhere they go? It’s not the noobs, however speedy they appear to be, not when one of mine or another vintage ride is there to grab the spotlight. There’s _definitely_ something about classic steel that technology just can’t supplant.

Fun comparison. Early nineties saw a 130mm rear wheel spacing implemented. You can run more gears on those bikes with carbon wheel sets. Best of both worlds. Carbon wheels, with lower spoke counts & air slicing capabilities, are the biggest difference for the avg rider.

@ralphc1405

4 ай бұрын

Don't forget when 7spd freewheels came out you needed a different chain. Those 3''32 pitch chains for 5 and 6spd blocks couldn't work.

I was a teen when I got my first road bike. That was about 1978 and I got Raleigh Touring bike with Campagnolo group set with the same setup as what you had. Good old Ten Speed bike. I would put a lot of miles in, and loved every minute on it.

19:40 says it all. 'Soul" is something you infuse the bike with gradually. In 2018, I replaced my N.R. equipped 1981 Guerciotti with a Giant TCR. Gave the Guerciotti to my stepson.The TCR is just starting to "come alive" now. I took the Guerciotti out for a spin last summer and it still spoke to me before, during and after the ride (my position felt ridiculously slammed by the way). The body does not age as well as the vintage superbike. When my stepson took it in to a shop for a minor service, the guys in the shop just drooled over it. I was SO proud to hear this. Will the TCR get the same response 50 years from now?

Really enjoyed this video. IMO the classic bike is beautiful and it's not all about performance to me, different ratios and that would be a great bike to enjoy (or just avoid crazy climbs). BTW Si, I love the way you look in that retro jersey, it looks much better than your boring black one, just saying, save the black for your ankles as it will make them look smaller. ;)

Some really nice editing on this one!

As a bike mechanik from Amsterdam I allways jugde a bike for it's 'fun factor' . In my book a steel bike with downtube shifters has a way bigger fun factor rather than a brand new high end competition bike if, if you rebuild the bike to 'modern' standards: compact 50-34 in front and as big a possibel in the back; My 1984 Giant Peloton Superlite can shift from 50-12 to 34-32 with Suntour VX gt deraillers. Last autumn I 'did' Passo d' Agnello with it. Great big fun for a fraction of the price you'll have to pay for a brand new high end carbon (= plastic) roadbike. Eat your heart out folks!

@ralphc1405

3 ай бұрын

On a side note I have been riding VREDESTEIN Fortezza clinchers for close to 20 years here in the US. I enjoy that 23mm can be pumped to 120psi or more. Are they/were they popular there in Holland? Did the pro peloton or major teams ever use them? Sad that they are not popular anymore.

I had an old all Campagnolo Mondia Special that I bought in 1968. I still have my deceased wife’s Cinelli. They were quite the rides in their day.

A Condor's been an object of desire for me ever since I saw one on the cover of "Richard's Bicycle Book" (a large number of) years ago!

@stevemawer848

5 ай бұрын

In the 60s I always lusted after their Giro d'Italia model, elegant simplicity.

Great video. I wonder though, I do I do. What if u gave the old bike, that fancy shifter, modern pedals, carbon fiber wheels, just a heavy touch up or modernization, how close would the race be then? Lived the show, go GCN!!!!!

@JordyJayHomer

5 ай бұрын

Exactly. The differences would be negligible if the wheels were swapped and the old bike had a few other modern bits on it

The 7Eleven and red and white Merckx were big sellers back in the mid 80’s. By then though Shimano Dura Ace was the high end group for your ride. 52/42 chain rings with a 12-24 in the back!

Still have my Dawes 531Comp + Campy (std crankset) that I rode to inter alia Paris and competed timed events on; yes, it has soul but it is a nightmare on the Chiltern hills where I live now. (Campy) compact + modern cassette all the way for this! A really enjoyable film - well done GCN!

Having grown up through the evolution of the modern bike, I found this a particularly interesting comparison. My first good bike had down tube SIS shifters and toe traps. My current bike is outdated with an aluminum and carbon hybrid, but not the electric shifters. one of the faults with your leg shredder comparison is that you used the wrong cassette for the hills. Even back in the day they would use different gear combinations depending on the terrain they were riding. It was not even a close to fair comparison. And while I would NEVER go back to the old days of cycling, I feel that if you were to ride the old school bike for a few months, your approach to riding would shift to accommodate the technology. You adapt to what you have available, and when you are entirely used to the modern equipment, it is difficult to make that transition...especially going from a modern bike to the older bike. I think it would be much easier the other way around! Good job with this video.

Great video! I have a 1976 Austro-Daimler Superleicht with Campagnolo Nuovo Record, Campy hubs, and Mavic rims that I purchased on eBay for an Eroica event. I loved it so much that I decided to build up its modern equivalent--by 40 years--with a 2016 A-D Superleicht in the same burgundy color, with Campagnolo Super Record 11 and Mavic Cosmic SLs. It's a vastly superior bike, but there are days when the old Austro-Daimler is my choice. If only it weren't so expensive to replace tubulars; I'd ride it much more! By the way, I like wearing my wool jersey, Si... It's the woolen shorts that I can do without!

excellent commentary. super funny and insightful

In the early 90's I saved and saved until I had the $500 to buy a Vitus 979 Aluminum frame set. Swapped all my Shimano 105 components on it. Black bar tape and a perforated black Selle Italia Flite seat with titanium rails. That was one beautiful bike. I wish I still had it. Was comfortable and fast.

Merry Christmas GCN!

I would have liked some watt and butt dyno measurements, meaning how much less or more tired you were on the new bike, how much you think it made you faster and how much easier it rolled etc. times are nice, but unless you are racing the feel of the bike makes the ride. and not just the soul of the bike

I have a 1991 Novara Pondorosa as my bicycle trainer on the Kickr. I probably put easily 10,000 miles on it over the years until I had to retire it as it has numerous stress cracks in the frame now. It hasn't been babied at any point in its life. I now have a few other bikes and ordering a TCR Advanced Disc 2 pro compact. It really does get in your blood and at 55, I don't know when it will stop. :)

Love the bit about soul having more to do with the adventure and your experience with the bike!

I would like a comparison using the exact same equipment on each bike, the only difference being Steel Frame v Carbon Frame . I think you will find difference between the 2 times are minimal.

I've been on Campagnolo since the early 1980s. From the last generation Super Record to the most recent gen 11 speed... I have the Campagnolo word mark tattooed on my left forearm. I can't imagine riding anything else because it just works. And if a part eventually wears out, I can replace it relatively easily. I still have my custom built Pinarello with 8spd Record (when Record was the top line) and it's just a beautiful ride with the straight block ratios I had when I raced cat 1-2-pro. When I show up with my retro bike on club rides, noobs always comment on how it was possible to ride a 53x41-12x19 on our roads, yet we did and I still ride the same ratios on my carbon bike, but admittedly the 21 gets used now. I think we were just tougher back then because we had to be.

@ralphc1405

4 ай бұрын

In the late 80s did you ride Synchro or did you still use the friction mode for your C-Record DT levers? Shimano D.A. riders were already spoiled by then with index.

@johnandrews3568

4 ай бұрын

@@ralphc1405 i was friction until i went to Ergo

I especially like the Eddie Merckx clip. I had his poster in my dorm room in 1975 when others had Linda or Farrah. This was when he was first to bicycle 50km in one hour. I love that he dismisses any benefit from more gears. His heroes surely included some riders before 1937 when derailleurs were outlawed in the Tour de France (you had to change wheels to gear down, if you were wimpy). Derailleurs were first proven practical in 1902 by Vélocio in Saint-Etienne, but the macho culture of bicyclists took decades to do the obvious. What does Eddie think of the fixed-gear era? He's still alive. Someone should ask him.

Oh yeah, old school bicycles with old school down tube, cable-actuated shifters and cable-actuated rim brakes. Brings back memories of the late 70's in France. My Peugeot had toe clips, but I took them off because I didn't want to fall over at the stop lights. Rim brakes never stopped you when it was raining outside so you had to use your feet which wasn't much of a problem, except when going downhill and the light at the bottom turns red. I'm lucky I wasn't turned into a hood ornament. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Nice video , thanks Si. I’d like to see a similar comparison between a latest model and something comparable but about 4 years old, plenty of people in the market for decent used bikes, be nice to see how much worse they are, if any……

I can't believe Eddy wasn't using a 6 speed block in 1969. Even I was! Couldn't afford Campag though, just plastic Simplex mechs, which worked fine. 54/44 front, and 14-21 at the back.

Toured in the Lake District in 1983 on my Holdsworth Championship. Frame I had built up myself. It had a Suntour 5 speed 16-20T freewheel on the back and Campag Gran Sport 52/42 chainset on the front. I was serving Queen and country in Northern Ireland at the time and asked my Dad to sort the bike, ie change the freewheel to something more suitable. Got my leave to the Lakes only to find my Dad had not changed the gearing. He thought he would get me back for thrashing him in time trials. He took me over Blea Tarn and the following day up Kirkstone Pass. I got to the top of Kirkstone first and was having a pint when he arrived. Those were leg braking climbs, but the only way to get up them was to attack the climb. Still riding riding steel and 6 speed freewheel blocks. Have given in to old age and injuries sustained by using a triple on the front. Had to gear down as I don't have the same leg and back strength.

does Simon know that you can get slotted cleats that fit the Look bolt pattern? That should help him get a little more power on the hills (it works for me). If needed, I've got some spares.

NIce video. enjoyed it very much. Ut while be fun to be a video on a neo-retro bike and see how good this frame does with modern components

Modern hi end steel with Campy chorus, Zonda or er, the one above, and Deda kit/forks. Works for me and has enough CF to be going along with. Merry Christmas everyone.

❤ Still riding Steel!!! All those gear choices is soooo Sweet!!! Come up to a Hill pop up two gears and get out of the saddle, build endurance 🎉 Love riding and the Grandkids are fast, but I still get them on the hills😅

As someone who has the "luxury" of riding a Giant TCR "retro" (and even older Giant CFR 1998) and the "newest" TCR I have an idea of the actual difference time has played. Realistically, frame/fork/seatpost performance differences, they are marginal. My 2005 frame isn't much slower than my 2021 frame. The area that this video does prove plays the biggest role in improvement is the drivetrain. Newer stuff is just faster. I know because my two Giants (actually 3) have been built up almost identically in terms of components. That's how I know it's the drivetrain rather than the frame. As for feel, that's personal preference (and in my case the mood I'm in).

Exactly...what´s not to like 🙂 I am lucky enough to have my retrobike from when I was 24 (OMG) and the thing that gives it a soul, is that I still remember all the good rides it has given me. On the other hand, my new gravelbike is just fantastic and I enjoy every crash 😀 Thank you for pointing out the joy and soul - past and future.

I wonder how much of a difference tires and the jersey made. With a modern group set, modern jersey, and wider modern tires I bet the 2 bike would be pretty damn even. Unless you're on a modern aero bike the 2 would be within a percent of each other.

@gcn

5 ай бұрын

We've been lucky enough to compare some pretty awesome bikes over the years! Check out our full Retro Vs Modern playlist for more 🤩👉 kzread.info/dash/bejne/npWr0derg8jVnqg.html

@MrTaxiRob

5 ай бұрын

the biggest issue with the vintage build in this vid is the freewheel ratios. not the number of them or the inconvenience of downtube shifting. Every other factor he cited in the summary is largely irrelevant.

I used to ride those retro bikes in the late seventies. I also was a lot faster with those bikes compared to my new carbon Merckx??? Hmmm...🤔 maybe it's me that aged a little 😂 Nice video guys. Merry Christmas

@scott5088

5 ай бұрын

Or modern bikes are less comfy and just like in pandora you don’t have the soul connection with modern bike

While no one will ever race the classic Campy steel builds any more due to the limitations you discussed, they still have their place. While the hammerheads would not be happy with the classic, some flower sniffers would be, especially if the freewheel is more relaxed and the drop bars are replaced with mustache bars. It is easier to enjoy the view and check over your shoulder. Steel frames from 1969 are still reliable after 50 years. I doubt any carbon frames will enjoy that longevity. In 2069 there will still be quite a few 100 year old Columbus frames around, along with riders showing off their beautiful Campy alu componentry. Don't think I am knocking the new bike you demoed though. It is very impressive.

You beat me to it! I am in the process of fine tuning a BMC SLR01 2018 model to make a direct comparison with my 1986 Columbus SLX and full Suntour Superbe Pro group set with Veloflex tubular tyres. My comparison however will not be posted on KZread. My comparison will be in a Masters Criterium racing environment and documented. My current race bike is the steel one and at my age of 60 years, I am starting to feel that perhaps I am making things harder for myself than it need be. But just how much is my quest to find out. As far as the old groupsets go nothing, in my opinion, surpassed the quality of Suntour Superbe Pro. Light, Cheap, Strong. Pick any two. With SSP you got all three. Its a shame that poor marketing/management decisions eventually caused the demise of Suntour (Maeda Industries), another story. It must be noted, that when the Suntour patent of the slant parallelogram rear derailleur expired in 1984, all of the other major derailleur manufacturers ( Campagnolo included) copied the Suntour design. Thus we have the smooth shifting for which Suntour was famous for but now in other brands. Soul? Steel bikes certainly have more of the human element built into them simply by means of the process of manufacture. The process of carbon reinforced plastic frames, though laid up by hand doesn't in my opinion carry the same weight (of 'soul'). I always get compliments on my steel bikes. Compliments seem on carbon bikes seem pretty thin on the ground. There is definitely an elegance to the older bikes that is lacking in the new stuff. Taking rocks from the ground, smelting them into metal, forging and machining into form and function, has a romance or something over reinforced plastics. If Vulcan rode a bike, it would be steel not plastic. Enjoyed the video. Thanks.

Still have a 52/42 and 12-24 on my steel road bike from 1989 or so (Nigel Dean, Reynolds 531c, SunTour Accushift). I do have 6 sprockets on the freewheel though!

Hey all, firstly i enjoyed all parts of video :) honestly i think that vintage bike was nearly 50 year old with old components and i also saw the time difference :). however if you have the similar vintage bike that you have upgraded with newer components, the machine can have similar knowledge and to be good to ride :) i can say that process because of implementing that bike upgrade already :) i have a peugeot, tourmalet the year is 1992. the components are including mixed campagnolo 11 speed groupset (record , superrecord, chorus) and fulcrum racing 0 wheelset. the weight is 8.5 kg :)

I was surprised - I thought the differences would have been GREATER than 0:41 seconds - however - the course was short and if you were to compound the effects over a 200-250KM modern Grand Tour stage - you are talking far greater time differentials - there was no comment on the COMFORT level - the compliance of modern bikes has to account for greater endurance with less discomfort - riding in pain is slower

For training and winter , I would prefer the steel frame...exept the tires and the shifters on the handlebar. In 1969 there was also possible to ride with smaller gears....Specialite TA makes a 3 chainring crank long before 1969 ......but thr riders had contracts with campy so they had to ride campy....what happend when the modern bike looses a spoke ?? And what happend if the old one did this ;-)) the old stuff brings the riders more to their limit...so better much more spectular for the spectatures...ok 2,5 kg is very much ! What a will be the diffrence between a bike from now and a bike which is 10 years older ? And at least what about the costs, the diffrence of the money from 1969 until now ??

Always love watching GCN. Would be good to know how much bikes each cost when new,average wage at time bikes produced and does that make the 6% improvement value for money

@jbarner13

5 ай бұрын

In 1971, the only complete Campagnolo production bike that I know of was the Raleigh Pro, as almost every other bike, other than those from smaller, independent builders, came stock with something other than the expensive Campagnolo brakes. The Pro was around $425 US in 1971, which would be a bit under $3,300 in 2023 money. The Schwinn Paramount with stock Weinmann centerpulls and otherwise full-Campy was $350, or $2,700 in today's tender. Those prices would barely get you in the door of performance bikes, nowadays.

Thanks, Si, for making the comparisons between one modern and one from 50 years ago. It makes me appreciate how much harder cyclists had to pedal 50 years ago with heavier bikes with less capable groupsets.

I love my old 80s campy bike but going up hill with younger riders is a challenge. I can stay with them on a more current tech bike but it feels like a different sport.

Back in the 70’s I got an original handmade in Waterloo, Wisconsin Trek road bike. Over the years I bought and rode more modern bicycles, but years later when I would occasionally ride the old Trek I was always surprised at how good it was.

I think what gives a bike a soul, is what happens on it, I still remember my kids bike, even though I moved on from that bike over a half a century ago. Remember my first geared bike, 3 speed Sturmey Archer, the blue 5 speed, the red Sekine that replaced it, that I bought with my own money, from cutting grass and shovelling snow. I hauled that bike off to college, when I could not afford a car and needed to get around. Even the current crop, the ancient Raleigh roadie that I got when a neighbour was tossing it away, gee the gears on it, are about the same as your Eddy Merckx, try riding up that hill with a 60 year old "motor". I plan on getting it out, pumping up those wide 23mm tires, and seeing how I do on the local trail, it's fairly flat, and I see roadies on it all the time.....

After a 30-plus year break from cycling, I've dug my old bike out, and now everything is described as "retro.".....makes me feel old!! 😂😂

GCN are on their 16th retro vs modern road bikes comparison video by my quick search

@PRH123

5 ай бұрын

And they never do a proper test. They never even reveal what if any maintenance they did on the old bike they're testing. They've done tests without even replacing 40 year old tires or brake blocks. They don't take any time to get used to riding a downtube shifting bike, and whinge and whine and complain throughout.

I got a retro style Ti frame with 11 speed 105 but with a set of Roval CL50 rims. I use it for Crit races. Has its own style but it doesn’t limit me.

@gcn

5 ай бұрын

What a bike! Have you seen our latest crit bike build over on GCN Tech? 👉 kzread.info/dash/bejne/polrrJOFgLqYodY.html

@FatboyAussie

5 ай бұрын

Just watched it. Love it.

I was also made 54 years ago but sadly none of my components are “box fresh”! 😢

I remember the day we built up a Colnago with a Campy 50th Anniversary Groupo and placed it in the display window of our bike shop. The looks that bike got was amazing. Think it was a whooping $3000.00. The bike was bought by a local Doctor that loved collecting Italian bikes.

Try equalising the bikes with gearing and wheel depth. The real advantage is aerodynamics. The modern stuff is faster through the air. It's possible to build compact set ups for vintage bikes. My hilly tt bike is early 80s 753 with 52/36 stronglight cranks/rings, 28 on the back , no problems on hills. On the flat not as fast as the carbon race bike but the difference is minimal. Weight isn't a big issue, a few lbs either way particularly on the flat, only in very long hilly events.

Are you planning to add new soul to an old bike? Like restomoding and checking if its worth it?

@MrTaxiRob

5 ай бұрын

I bet a huge percentage of us viewers have at least one restomod bike

@RealDocJames

5 ай бұрын

​@@MrTaxiRobyup

Rim brakes just look cleaner.

@andrewmcalister3462

5 ай бұрын

While the wheels might look cleaner, the Condor does make you appreciate the aesthetics of concealed cable routing.

I am curious. You guys tested each bike for speed. But what about endurance? What about performance, comfort and "feel" of a 5-6 hours long ride with each?

@simonrichardson5259

5 ай бұрын

New bike every day of the week please! Skinny steel is nice, but modern bikes are more comfortable in so many ways.

@alexandreboyenval3140

4 ай бұрын

@@simonrichardson5259i can ride my Merckx or my Colnago with 700x23 clincher at 9-10 bars of pressure, on the bad roads of Vaucluse. Steel is by far more comfortable than modern carbones bike.

I have an unquestionable loyalty to Italian equipment / frames, why? Because they build stuff with a mix of passion, precision and style. My first ever bike was a Cinelli (1977) thereafter an Alan Aluminium (an absolute mould breaker - 1980) Galli equipped - remember them? I still ride my 1999 Fausto Coppi, Campag Record equipped machine, in all seasons. I also ride an F8 with Campag H11. Both deliver wonderful riding experiences...and that is what it is all about.

In the fall and winter, I ride a Trek 520 steel frame touring bike. When spring and summer roll around I drag out my lighter more speed oriented Trek aluminum carbon road bike. Here is to a positiv New Year.

2:12 Are those Shimano SPD-SL cleats on classic pedals with toeclips? LOL

@dirkvilyn6239

5 ай бұрын

Yea, and he blames the bike!!😅lol

My long comment got lost. Anyhow to summarize. Still occasionally ride the late 1970s Campagnolo, gear change in handle bar ends, with the 68 chainring and welded derailleur hanger bracket forward of axle . Now have Cervelo S5 Di2 synchro changed to hub gears with 81 tooth self made single chainring, and titanium Curve with wireless and 78T single chainring. In my mid seventies and ride with mid forties mates up North Head hill (Sydney) and McCarrs. Started off riding big gears due to Powerlifter/bodybuilder and cant shake it. If the test was done with some big gear training beforehand maybe different opinion may have been had.

I know that the road I used to run is for fun, four times around is approximately a half marathon. I only managed it on a bike as it was so slippery and slippery.... Absolutely a killer....

Hi Simon. Could you address the price differences and how they changed and materials. Thanks. Happy New Year to all!

@chrissammels5444

4 ай бұрын

In 1967, a hand built Reynolds 531 lugged steel frame was £25. A Campag equipped custom built road bike amounted to £80. You could not buy an off the shelf, quality racing bike in Britain. A mass produced schoolboy “racer” was about £30. You could buy a race ready Peugeot PX10, but it was inferior and dated, and import duties made it disproportionately expensive for what it was. A weeks wage for a working man was between £10 and £15. A new car was around £600. A small house was about £2000.

I love these comparison to Vintage bikes. But I dont understand why it is being said that there were only high gears back in the day? I have a 1981 Bottecchia Team Scic with a Gipiemme Special Triplo Crankset with 52/42/36 (also available with 28T). On the rear the super light O.M.A.S. Big Sliding Hubs (Ti-Axle) with a Dura Ace Freewheel for mountain terrain which has 13-31 cogs... So even in the old days 1-1 gear ratios were doable. I'm not sure if this was used in the TdF but the tech has been around :) Cheers

@michaeltsui3435

5 ай бұрын

But then you need a chart to show what exactly the 15 gears or so are.

@S1Carter7

5 ай бұрын

The smallest gear is 36-31. A 28 teeth chainring also was available back then.@@michaeltsui3435

@RealDocJames

5 ай бұрын

You're talking about a 1981 bike. They went all the way back to 1969. So yeah great way to broadly skew results of "vintage vs. Modern."

A 20 minute Campagnolo commercial interrupted every 5 minutes by a Google commercial. Tedious! GCN needs to do a special on the L'Eroica of Gaiole in Chianti, Italy and do a deep dive into the bikes and the riders. I'd take an original Eddy Merckx bike for my collection over the new one any day.

I have a bike with Nuovo Record deraileurs. I always wanted them, they are beautiful, I heard all the stories, reliable as hell, but the shifting is terrible. But I wanted them, I put them on a mid priced 80's frame, my first decent road bike, I considered it a retirement gift to the bike, we've been through a lot together, I planned on riding it like 3 times a year, short rides under 30km, nothing really...but no...I like it, it takes a certain technique to shift it, but it's not that bad...it's not my main bike anymore, but I do take it beyond the city limits sometimes, it's simple and pure and demands to be ridden.

There is no doubt that the 12-speed motorized drive train provides more flexibility and helps make the modern bike faster. But is faster always better? Not for everyone, certainly. The main issues I have with "modern" tech on bikes is the lack of choice that's pervading the maker's lineups (you can have motorized shifting and hydro disks or nothing at all), the complexity of it all (batteries and apps to change gears, brake bleeding and tire sealant), and grossly inflated "modern" price tag that they bear. Give us choice, bike makers. At least build your super-carbon frames in a rim-brake version so we can build them up ourselves the way we want. I know that's an extra expense, and I know you believe nobody wants rim brakes. Yes, we do.

A lot has changed in 50 years, but what about the last ten years. My favourite road bike is now 10 years old. A size 56 S works Tarmac SL4. I’t s ten speed RED with rim brakes. Easy to ride it below the UCI weight requirement. I really feel like there have been changes over the past decade, disc brakes, wider rims, 11 speed and then 12, electronic shifting. But how much “better” are newer bikes?

To be honest, I get this kind of content, but you guys should really do a neo-retro comparison. A good 90's CrMo frame, built up with some modernish groupset with proper clipless pedals. I would be very much interested in what difference would that make. Especially cause I am riding a setup like that 😅(Bridgestone RB2 with a Shimano 5700 groupset and Ksyrium wheels)

@ragwort3369

5 ай бұрын

Agreed, I too would like to see that. I ride a 1973 Mercian road bike decked out with Campag Chorus 9 speed and would love to see a comparison with as retro frame fitted with a good modern groupset.

From about 1987 to 1993, bikes similar to both of these existed in the top levels of cycling. It was the transistion period, there were hold outs to the old tech and people jumping on the new stuff. 16-18 speeds was about the limit of gears, however, and I think that is the main difference betwen then and now. But, ya, the wheels and frame would have looked high tech, but not alien. Even electronic shifting existed, in it's earliest crude forms. Pros were still debating the advantages of index shifting and bar mounted shifters, carbon and titanium frames were catching on but a few guys still swore by steel.