How much battery storage to get is a difficult decision to make but hopefully, this video helps a little to make the right choice from the outset!!! Let me know in the comments how much battery storage you think is the right amount and if you plan to force charge and force discharge your batteries?! Thanks for watching! :)

One thing to watch out for is the battery cell configuration. I'm having a bit of a todo with my solar installer because the batteries i got are a weird 15 cell configuration whereas a normal LiFePO4 48v battery has 16. This means that i can't add any other type of battery than the one i got, whereas i want to be able to grab any standard battery out a DIY one like the seplos mason kits and connect it to the battery bus. I accept this isn't a use case for most solar customers but it is for me.

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Oh no, sorry to hear you are having a few issues, hope you get it sorted! Thanks for your comment :)

Great video, really clear and practical

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment :)

The ability to mix battery sizes such as sigenergy is useful .

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hi, thanks for the comment, yes there are brands that offer varying sizes, but usually those require wall mounting which means you need space adjacent to the existing batteries. So much to consider with batteries, but plenty of options out there!

HI - Just had a system installed - 5.92 Kwh / 6kwh Inverter / 5.8Kwh Storage which I want to increase does the fox app automatically update if you add a battery or do you need administartion access. System is Fox ESS

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hi thanks for the comment. What battery is it? Is it the cube like in the video? Usually the inverter will automatically see the new battery, as long as it has been set up correctly with the communication cables etc, but there shouldn't be anything to do in the app. I would advise asking the original installer to do it for you just incase though! :) Fox service centre technical helpline are super helpful and can help you with any queries you may have :) Best of luck with it

@investingforrealpeople8343

Ай бұрын

Hi Yes it is a cube battery and it is made up of 2x2.9Kwh - I want to add an additional 2.9 if not 2x as my calculations suggest an average annual use of 9.3 per day but currently this time of year it is between 4-6, This would suggest I think thta winter use is going to be above 10KWh ? Oh and thankyou for your response. Very much appreciated.

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

The cube is the best battery on the market in my opinion currently, not just because it looks great, but because of the ease of installing and adding to it. It couldn't be easier for you, firstly shut down the system from the AC and DC side, and turn off the master switch on the BMS, simply lift off the BMS (top module with the leads connected) add your new module on top of the one under the BMS and put the BMS back on. The you are done! 10 minutes max!

@Tony-fl3rl

Ай бұрын

The fox cube looks like a sungro battery pack

if i went on to their export tariff would i be abled to still keep my olf government FIT payments ?

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hi, thanks for the comment. I sam afraid you can only have one or the other. What is your FIT rate? The reason I ask, is that there are some great export rates available now, that may be better than what you are receiving on your FIT payments so you could switch if it was financially justifiable.

All well and good until you discuss costs. A 10kwh batterry if used to its full over its lifetime is going to cost about 10ppkwh. Add that to your 7.5p import charge and then add conversion losses and you are already losing money exporting to the grid from the battery. If space allows, you would be better off maximising your PV arrays and selling surplus PV at 15p and buying in what you need on a tracker tarrif at about 20ppkwh. And, if you dont fully discharge your battery every day, and fully charge it everyday, your efficiency goes down, and your 10ppkwh quickly becomes 15ppkwh. Batteries come into their own if you have power outages and have ahome back up system, but I doubt you will barely break even just buying and selling ! It would be nice to see you doing a sales arguement for a 10kwh battery on numbers alone

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hi, thanks for the comment. However, you seem to be only viewing this from a generation point of view factoring in only sunny conditions. The advantage and whole point of adding battery storage is to cover you for the days when the sun is not shining, and critically to capture the energy when it is shining, for you to use when you are home when the sun goes down and you don't pull from the grid at the expensive periods. Batteries work for you regardless of what the weather is doing and what season it is, unlike solar panels. Throwing all your budget at more panels (if you have the space), to maximise the export payments for an excess generation would be reliant on good weather alone. As anyone in this country knows, we can go days and days without sun, or very little - and more so in winter. where the solar would be producing much less. During those lower yielding times (if you are home when the sun is out) then you can use that energy, however, if you are out and miss it then that energy is exported at 15p, and you return home to start using the grid at 25p! In order to determine the cost justification of battery storage you have to of course include the dependency on the higher rate energy costs (around 25p per kWh) that you would be using because you have not saved any energy in the batteries that could have been purchased at just 7.5p per kWh during the previous night. The idea of charging them at night is to capitalise on the export payments sooner than you would if reliant on the panels to do it, so you maximise the potential savings. By having 100% battery every day you ensure not pulling from the grid at the expensive rate periods (as long as you have enough to cover your daily usage of course) Then, your solar generation is an added bonus exporting at 15p as soon as the sun hits the panels, as your batteries are already filled at 7.5p. On top of that, you can also force discharge the batteries if they are still full(ish) at the end of the day back to the grid down to say 20% for the 15p per kWh export rate, and then top them back up at 7.5p in the night. I am basing this on the Octopus Intelligent Go rates which it seems is what you were referring to. Battery storage works in many ways, goes hand in hand with a solar system, and results in shorter payback periods. At this current time with the tariffs available, the VAT-free element, and the cost of equipment as low as it is compared to previous years, battery storage is without doubt a cost-effective and essential addition to any solar system. Even without solar, a battery storage-only solution is an effective tool to significantly reduce your energy bills. The systems we use produce as accurately as possible data on how a system will perform with and without battery storage and what effect it has on the payback periods and overall ROI. It also shows the effect on grid independence and many other factors in order to base a financial decision on. In fact, you have given me an idea to do a video showing the whole process of how we run a proposal and I will base it on an average home for example a 4KW system with 10kWh of battery storage. I will run two side-by-side proposals, one with battery storage, and one without. So look out for that!

@richardkeith2778

Ай бұрын

@@alpselectrical Yes, I'd love to see that Video ! The point I am making is that batteries are not the solution in every case - it depends on usage, home occupancy, daily usage patterns and the Investment profile for the customer. In our case, it's so marginal, and with battery prices reducing, better to wait for a year or two PV only and see how things fall. It would be interesting to consider that if the site can accomodate as much additional solar as the battery would cost, so 8kwp, not 4kwp for example, and all surplus was exported to the grid, and just buy as needed at, say, a tracker price. We are at home during the day, so can maximise self consumption during PV hours, and apart from being unwilling to house batteries under the stairs ( small house, limited space), batteries seem too dependant on tarrifs that can change year on year. You should base all your comparisons on KWH prices, so the cost of your solar kwh and the price of your battery kwh, and then it's a simple case of adding that to the appropriate tarrif I think the GO reference is a good point - it only applies to EV owners, but EON do a comparable tarrif, so it will probably stand muster. Make sure in your video that you include Conversion costs, peak load when the battery can't supply enough for the home ( probably not so much of an issue these days) and battery warranty years/cycles. I'm also looking at ROI, not payback: If you have the cash to give yourself an interest free loan, and then not worry when you pay it back, then fine, but if I put £10k into solar, I'm looking at making savings year on year that give me a better return than investing it elsewhere. £10k invested in solar is going to be returning on investment for 25 years , batteries are good for 10 years. You could also consider EV developments - if they ever happen, V2G and V2H technologies could render your batteries redundant in the next couple of years Looking forward to your video, best of luck with the maths !!

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hmm, Id be interested to see a situation where batteries would not be viable, even if you are home all day. There will always be situation where generation is exported and lost to the grid (albeit at 15p), but the issue is when a homeowner needs energy and the sun is not hitting the panels the only option is then to pull from the grid at the expensive periods. I am sure you leave the house on occasions, but even if you were home all day every day, you will have days where there is little to no generation and you will be using the grid at the peak rate, instead of using it at the cheap rate from the batteries that you could have filled the night before. There will be days when the sun is out all morning and energy is exported for then the weather to change and there be less generation in the afternoon, and the homeowner inevitably starts to pull from the grid at the expensive periods again instead of the batteries that could have captured that earlier generation. I could go on through many scenarios but in my experience, and we do countless proposals and installs for customers in obviously many varying situations, and sizes, and obviously no single job is the same, but I am yet to put together a proposal where batteries are not justifiable. And every customer gets a full breakdown of with and without for them to decide. It is not up to us to convince anyone of anything, just to present as accurate as possible information to offer a customer the ability to make a well informed choice. We regularly get asked by customers to come and increase their battery storage after 6-12 months because they have done their maths and it makes sense to them. This is why we always recommend starting with a conservative level of storage and see how the data goes before committing to more! The systems we use to carry out a proposal estimate are very good but cannot predict when and how much a customer pulls a certain load from the batteries, and cannot also cater for a customers usage habits. They cannot also predict what tariff a customer may go with, or change to, or if they will charge their batteries overnight, or leave it to the sun to do it, or indeed will force discharge them. It cannot predict what the weather will do, or if tariff prices will change. It does allow for a best estimate on the weather, and also inflation but there isn't a system available, or that will ever be invented that can predict everything from tariff prices, to user habits, to weather patterns for the next 25 years. It is of course impossible. All we can go on is data and experience of seeing that data, which as I say, I have with my own system, and all the customers we install for and monitor/keep in touch with. It is from that experience that I share my knowledge. Most hybrid inverters will have sufficient outputs for most household loads, and in any case, if a load of 8KW was being drawn and only 5KW was capable of being su[plied by the battery inverter, it is 5KW more than it would have been without the batteries, and 5KW less being pulled from the grid, and so 5KW at a cheaper rate. The remaining 3KW would be supplied from the grid. Most inverters have a 10 year life not 25. It is the panels that have the 25 year lifespan. As I say, the proposals offer a ROI with and without batteries for a customer to base their decision. However as mentioned any proposal does not factor in a customer force charging their battery at night and even perhaps force discharging it later in the evening, which does make a significant difference. And so the predicted ROI/payback period will always be improved upon with savvy usage habits making use of good tariffs. Batteries don't have to go indoors, there are great batteries that can be installed outdoors and efficiency is not compromised. Some better than others. Tesla is great but expensive, but SOLAX do a great battery that maintains its own temperature and works perfectly well outdoors. I will do a video on this at some point in the future. Hit the subscribe button and you will be the first to know! :)

@richardkeith2778

Ай бұрын

@@alpselectrical Batteries may be viable, but not always necessary. Consider my circumstances : Annual Usage : 3.6 mwh Expected annual Solar ( no battery) 7.4 MWH Expected Self Consumption 1.4MWH Expected Annual purchase is therefore 2.2MWH - (just corrected from 2.0) Lets say with my solar investment my self generated electricity costs 1ppkwh, so my "profit" on every kwh I export is 14p Lets say 15p export and (average) import on Tracker is 20p So if I export exactly the same as I need to buy in, my per KWH price is 6ppkwh (Tracker 20p less Import 15p less 1p Generation costs) this means I am paying less per KWH to top-up whenever I want to than you are charging your battery for at the cheapest rate - and that is before you add in the KWH cost of processing through your battery which is probably about 8-10ppKWH. If you factor in the fact that I should be exporting 3 times the amount I buy in, I have that 6p covered, and my daily service charge - I might even eat into gas charges too !! Big Fat Caveats : I could have missed something obvious !! We are waiting for the DNO to approve 8kwh, and they may not. I am installing Solar Edge, and batteries for it are damn expensive, and other external batteries are quite expensive too. I understand though, that I can extend the SE Inverter warranty to 25 years for a couple of hundred pounds ( to be confirmed) Knowing my nature, I will want to fit and forget, so optimising tarrifs to shave a few pence off the bill just aint going to happen, but I take your point. Finally Hint taken, I have just subscribed :)

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hi Richard, a very useful debate for sure! Can I just ask before I come back to you, what is the tariff you mentioned with only 20p per kWh to purchase with a 15p per kWh export rate? As usually there is a sacrifice somewhere, for example, a more expensive period to buy in to get a better export rate. I am on Octopus Flux, and my cheap rate to buy in is 16p during the night, my export all day is 16.3p but between 4-7pm my export jumps to around 25p but equally, the import rate jumps to around 30p. We need to ensure we have enough battery to cover us between 4-7 so we do not draw from the grid. The rates used to have an even bigger swing but have just come down in all areas and they will continue to fluctuate constantly. It is between the hours of 4-7pm that I have my batteries set to discharge down to 40% to capitalise on the better export rate but to keep some for our use after 7pm till midnight till the cheap rate starts again and we can fill them back up. Setting force charge and force discharge cycles is as simple as setting it and leaving it to do its thing. You just set it to charge to the level you want at whatever period and with discharging you just tell the batteries to discharge down to a level you wish if they are holding more than that amount by the discharge period. You set it once and that's that. There may be times you will want to alter it for seasonal changes perhaps, or tariff changes, etc, but apart from that I haven't changed my settings this whole year as yet. SolarEdge is great gear but as you say, expensive. I wasn't aware they offered a 25-year warranty as an extra, I will look into that for our previous SolarEdge customers. You can always use another brand as an AC-coupled battery system that works alongside the solar system if you ever wish to, meaning you can look at all brands. What size array do you have out of interest? And thanks for the sub! :)

You said it was a 10 minute job for you so what is the cost you charge Bfor a 10 minute installation?

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hi, thanks for the comment. There is a little more to it than just the 10 minutes to lift the battery into place, with registering it, set up and MCS paperwork etc, obviously transport and travel, and believe it or not the DNO need to be notified of additional batteries so we do all that too. But we charged this customer next to nothing on top of the cost of the battery (less than £80) due to him being a solar customer of ours, and we look after all our customers ongoing as we want them to get the very best from their systems for the life of them.

I thought I needed around 10 kw . Now I have 45 kw and it's perfect but it just goes to show..... You will need more than you think. And the more batteries you have the longer they will last because they are not being worked as hard

@alpselectrical

Ай бұрын

Hi thanks for the comment, and you are bang on right. Great to hear your batteries are working well for you! Most people increase their storage as time goes on as they see the financial benefit in doing so!

@matthewknight5641

29 күн бұрын

@@alpselectrical yep for sure. And once you see the system working it makes it easier to justify buying more batteries.

@alpselectrical

29 күн бұрын

Yes exactly!

@matthewknight5641

29 күн бұрын

@@alpselectrical another thing to consider about battery storage is this... The larger the battery bank the less amp draw per cell and less often the cells will be drawn to a lower state of charge. The larger the bank the more cycles you get from the bank simply because the batteries are under less stress. Batteries are still expensive although they have been coming down in price but having around a week or so of reserve power with very little or no charge is a great investment that adds that extra couple levels of security to a good solar power system.

@alpselectrical

29 күн бұрын

Hi, yes that is actually a very good point! :)