One of the main reasons I stopped doing pan liner was because of the extra day for the pre-slope. I have no clue why I never heard of, or used a ultra fast set mortar. I might do away with Schluter / other methods and go back to float and liner. I am also in the NorthCal by the way, hello neighbor. With how out of plane and bad old / mid town Sac houses are, the float is looking really appealing again. The fast set mortar is a great tip to save time. Love these videos. Your channel inspired me to make my own as a goof / hobby and I can see why you have so much content. It is fun to share your work. Your content is on another level though. And your trade work is also spectacular, dam near perfect every time!

Oh man, this brings back memories. This is the method I learned 10 years ago back in the union we’ve come along way

Old school but is still probably the best way to do it. I have seen some showers leaking when they use other methods

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

Then they were done wrong

I still say this is the best and easiest way to build a shower and never leaks if done correct.

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

If I pour a pan with deck mud i kirdi cloth over it and tape it. Never had a leak

Cant wait to see the next steps.

I Always do hot mop and never had an issue. I think its the best way to go.

Even StarrTile watches. Good to have all the input in one place. 👍 😊 Both are successful. 😊😊😊😊

Cmon Zakk! 😂 Killin the ol coach lol.

preslope is everything when it comes to making a mud base work. I like the shower drain flush with the subfloor and I use a 2x4 on edge for the curb to obtain a narrower curb. Taller than stacking 2x4s flat and so much narrower. Installing the pan liner used to be a plumber's job. It is a plumbing fixture after all. I'd like to know when it became the tile setter's problem. The old timers I worked around always used copper nails to secure them. Now we are the ones doing the water test and making sure it does not leak.

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

Why not put some lathe down, pour pan and then Kerdy cloth over when dry. Then use the inside outside corner and Kerby tape. Never had a leak

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

Noone wants cement board where I reside. Unless Verdi cloth over cement board and pan. Then the county has to pass your 24 hour water test

Excellent tutorial ...... I get the new methods are time/ skilled labor savers, but that is cheap and bullet proof.

*Tip- Measure and pre-fold your membrane. It makes it much easier to handle it.

We used to call Dave Sewell at Sierra Shower Pan. Hot mop with pre slope and water test. Best money spent. Then daypack deck mud.

Old school way. How I learned 25 years ago, but haves not used a bladder in several years

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

The problem with Schlumberger pans is when sub floor isn't level, especially the perimeter. Pouring/ dry packing deck mud gives you the field to make your slope and perimeter good. Simple

Nice job

Yes yes yes. No issues down the road

Nice seeing you going back to mud again, which do you prefer mud or prefab foam?

There is a actual official video from Otaley about how to install PVC linear, I think it’s very helpful and step by step.

Old skool perfection

Yes this is the method I love! Great video Isaac!

@ronland1821

2 ай бұрын

Yes other than the wood curb needs to go.

@Apexjasonmorganllc

2 ай бұрын

@@ronland1821 i don’t personally ever use wood in my curbs. I always do Mud curbs. Tile coach is an awesome installer so I would trust his install though.

@ronland1821

2 ай бұрын

@@Apexjasonmorganllc Right I’ve never used wood in 25 years.

@jessematheny3636

2 ай бұрын

where are you from? so cal wood and hotmop is all I see and do myself@@ronland1821

@ronland1821

2 ай бұрын

@@jessematheny3636 Utah

Damn good job bro.

Being a plumber using a heat gun or leaving the liner in the florida sun for a few makes it alot more flexible for tighter folds and easier to apply.

Stapling is a good tip. More fixings go in when the wall board is installed.

Thanks for the lesson ! If for the wall, you're using a backer board (foam, hardi,...), not floated mortar, I assume you overlap the wall board down over the membrane? and I assume you shim out the studs to the thickness of the folded membrane corners before installing the wallboard?

The number one failing point with this method is water getting underneath the 2x4s, swelling them and popping curb. I've seen it on more than ten showers that I have demoed throughout the years. I rarely custom pour pans these days, but if a job calls for mud I always pour my curbs (encapsulating the liner within).

@ronland1821

2 ай бұрын

Bingo 👊

@davidwelsh829

2 ай бұрын

Yep x10

@alwayssearching1882

2 ай бұрын

II always waterproof my three 2x4s individually before I install curb. Even the substrate. Never an issue.

@justinofboulder

2 ай бұрын

@@alwayssearching1882 Sounds like a lot of work, but also sounds like a method that works great for you! I'm almost exclusively using foam systems now, install is so much quicker and my body appreciates working with lighter weight components.

@corystadman9089

Ай бұрын

​@@alwayssearching1882that's what I do too

Can you do mud bed for the first layer like the one you use on the second video or you need to use mortar mix ? And thanks 🙏

Excellent explanation, thanks so much. Any worry about the pre slope cracking at the drain because it's only 1/4 inch thick?

@TileCoach

2 ай бұрын

Not at all. It has a 2” bed of mortar above it.

Just a regular homeowner here. No interest at all in doing any of this work but I find it interesting to watch.

I got to thinking you tile coach and tile star are both really good. I got an idea from watching both of you but I know tile coach likes to experiment. He is my idea how about a mortar base pre slope a liner and then a slop with modified acrylic liquid added to the 4:1 mix and then seal every thing with hydro ban and chalk the drain. The ultimate 1000 year shower. Tile coach you are great I have learned so much. How much space when tiling to corners on shower on12/24 1/8 1/4 1/16 horizontal.

Are there occasions where you want the prefloat and pan liner installed before the Board is prepped on the wall? Awesome video by the way!!! Love X15, but not the smell 😭😂

Hi Issac! Do you still recommend the Flo fx drain as the number 1 option? Thanks

Thanks

Retired now most of my work was done in New York City lead pan only did a couple years in the bay area never used wood for a curb. Thought this was old-school you guys didn’t do this anymore all these new fangled systems. I assume you like the labor but you’ve reached the point where you need to just expedite chip in buddy.

Where the wall tile and floor tile met using this method, do you need to grout and the caulk, or is grout sufficient?

Can you use deck mud (4to1 or 5to1 ratio) for your preslope as well?

The pan liner is the only method i see never have an issue if installed correctly. Youve demo'd countless showers made with other material, but what about the Oatey perfect slope? Is there anything wrong with using it? Although its expensive, it saves soo much time. You also dont save much in mud bed cost either.

Nice vid. Y the pan liner and not the foam pan??

Glad you came back to old school for a day. To be honest I was losing interest in your new installs. I don't trust any of the new "systems". Failures are everywhere, while a well-done old-school install will last a century. I had a 100-year-old house with an old mortar bed and it never failed. A remodel revealed it was in perfect like-new shape. I regretted even touching it.

@TileCoach

2 ай бұрын

Thanks. It definitely felt good to do it. Stay tuned for the next videos coming up. Floating the pan, flaoting the walls, setting the tile, and grouting. I got hours of content coming up from this shower.

Why or when would you decide to go with this pan liner than the presloped schluter pan/ hot mop/etc?

Some new construction GCs can be very cheap and stubborn old school. And this is a great example.

Still the best shower pan method by a country mile. Not a fan of the wood curb though. Would probably float that out or use bricks instead.

@axelemon1

2 ай бұрын

why? so the potential leak stays hidden longer? everything else is made out of wood anyway

@dantemariscal8679

2 ай бұрын

If you’ve seen his other videos he shows how to float the curb with mortar instead of screwing in nails into cement board through the liner. Dude knows his stuff and drops priceless information

@davidwelsh829

2 ай бұрын

Bull, ive torn out dozens of curbs that had wood in them, some less than a year old. Never use wood in a wet area. Ftw i started doing tile in 1975.

@Flynnasquez

2 ай бұрын

U and ur method is y I have work

Guilty on the curb Conner😐 ive learn since. Live and learn.

Newbie question: why wouldnt you install the side boards afterwards so it could better overlap over the rubber membrane?

Isaac, what circumstances would make you choose using a mud bed/wood curb/liner vs a premade pan like RediTile?

@TileCoach

2 ай бұрын

The GC prepared the shower for this method.

What other methods do y’all recommend instead of the pvc membrane for a first time DIY?

Will you buy cement on top of this resin?

Can you use flo fx with pan liner?

Would this OATEY pan liner and glue be AQUARIUM SAFE ? can i make an aquarium seal out of these materials seen here ?

My shower is 7’ long. I am installing a linear drain in the front. Question is-would it be okay to have one continuous slope to the drain and not slope the floor away from the side walls? I will slope the floor away from the front wall to the drain but what do you guys think about not sloping the floor at the sidewalls, just one slope for the 7’ pan?

Can I put black tar paper on top of plywood and the put mortar mix. Do I use mash wire on the mortar mix

How to tile the liner area at the bottom of wall? Should I fill with thinset? Or just leave it blank?

The Method, I was taught 30 years ago, it works.

How does the method compare to other methods in cost?

Great work like always, but the question why this antic method i did these 15 years ago?

@ronland1821

2 ай бұрын

It’s still the best method to date period 👊

Flexible PVC sheet can strech 300% before tearing and so if any movement in the structure waterproofing membrane can remain sealed.

How much water actually seeps through the tile,grout and pan to get to the rubber liner ?

what is the best pan liner to use ?

Love all the videos but why so many different ways. The preformed foam bases seem so much easier??

@justinofboulder

2 ай бұрын

Foam is definitely easier, and better in most cases. I poured mud pans for 25 years, and there are a few applications where they are still better than foam. One example being in a renovation of a concrete slab when doing a curbless shower. Removal of slab and then pouring shower base and flush to existing slab grade.

7 inches gap, a good fact to know. 👍 😊😊😊😊

Where is episode two? 🤓

On a previous video you said the pan liner should be at least 3 inches above the curb…?

Flexible 1mm PVC sheet ????? Is that the material in your liner ?? Australia does not have your system, but I can get the flexible PVC and with a heat gun turn the liner down the drain hole after tililng.

How are you gonna attach the remaining wall board at the bottom?🤔

@tommywalker5348

2 ай бұрын

Float! no board 🤟

@justinofboulder

2 ай бұрын

That's a good question! When I was pouring pans regularly, I would shim out all my walls to accommodate the thickness of the pan liner, then concrete board all the way down to a half an inch above the pan liner (not attaching any screws below the shower curb maximum height).

Could you use pvc glue on those hospital corners just to reinforce them?

@Paul-rg4is

2 ай бұрын

Not pvc glue, it's specific pan liner glue. It's green, it's also necessary.

Do you answer any of the questions in your comments. I’m redoing my bathroom and these are good questions.

Would it be beneficial to add a bead of caulk around the underside edge of the drain before bolting it down?

@stephenhornsby9078

2 ай бұрын

Nope will plug the weep holes

Not sure what code you’re reading Isaac, but waterproofing must go 3 inches above curb height. Not 2 inches. Thanks for the video

@TileCoach

2 ай бұрын

Maybe it’s the fasteners that can’t be below 2”. Thanks for the info.

Sorry but i'm confused, i thought the drypack went in the liner not under it, do you do another preslope on top, sandwiching the liner in between?

@rowdynoe9595

2 ай бұрын

This is the pre-slope, which gives a slope to the pan liner itself so water does not pool at the bottom of the mud bed that is placed on top of the liner

@Cam-wi3tp

2 ай бұрын

@@rowdynoe9595 Well i sure do appreciate your response and this video from tile coach! From videos i've watched, everyone seems to be throwing liner over the floor, putting in oaty liner then preslope inside the liner. I got away from youtube and did some reading and now i understand this system and learned about the mold issues. Thank you both so much

3 inch galvanized Staples

Is that your dad helping in the background ?

One thing that's really bugging me: all of these boards like hardibacker and concrete board, so many people think they're waterproof when over and over I've seen people say they're not and that you still have to waterproof them with some kind of membrane. Then why even use "waterproof" boards instead of drywall? It doesn't make sense to use drywall either, I know that, but to me it just seems like no matter what you put up you'll still have to slather it with red guard or flex seal or whatever. I have a tile tub surround that seems to be failing, the wall next to the tub is getting damp, and I'm probably going to replace with a basic btch fiberglass tub and surround because it just seems too expensive and complicated to get the tile right (our bathroom was newly remodeled before we moved in).

Hi Isaac, I need your help. It’s very urgent. I live in Boston and I am doing my new bath on second floor. I had hired two guys to do pre slope. Each of them have screwed up the slope and both time I demolished the whole structure.

@limamohanty1083

29 күн бұрын

I want to show you the picture of my pre slope where drain flange is really down than the slope. If I put the liner on top of it then it won’t be on the same level. Can you please suggest me. I really want to talk to you in person

Bro just get a hot mopper to water proof that pan. I get that you're using the membrane but theres no debating that hot mopping is such a superior method and total peace of mind. My guy charges $275 to hot mop a 3x5 pan and curb here in Ventura county, ca. Im not bashing you here, just giving a suggestion to make your shower projects less stressful.

I thought you were supposed to put an adhesive down on the bottom side of the pan liner. Is it not worth the time and effort to do so?

Liner is not turned up the wall far enough! Liner should be 2 inches above the" Finished" curb(tcna) , not the rough framing! Top of the wooden curb just like the pre slop should be pitch inward ! Pre fold the liner outside the shower makes the installation much easier! That cast iron drain is old technology. Modern pvc drains have weep groves under the clamping ring to allow water to continue to flow under the clamping ring and not stop at the ring! You can also adjust the drain body up or down.

@TileCoach

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info david

Shower liners if done right will always be superior

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

Compared to what?

@Spcampbell193

2 ай бұрын

@@DavidWhite-iv9xw thinset applied membranes, brush on water proofing, foam preslopes, any other shower base products

@ronland1821

2 ай бұрын

Exactly 👍

Paper / Mud / Waterproof/ The right thinset and grout/ Good tile work = NO PRESLOP NEEDED 27 years of high end work and not one preslop.

I thought old school was copper pan, lead pan or hot tar and 15lb felt?

I just use regular mad and add some baking soda ready to go in 15 min

Oatey does have a youtube on the pan liner here kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqR5k6Nvn8q7fqw.html --- Looks like a pretty well thought out installation for the pan -- especially the double layer over the curb.

Mixed stiff because you missed arm day at the gym

Wheres sal at

Not a tile guy here but a builder. We are always dealing with the corners that you fold and how the denshield or cement board comes down over it and flairs out causing the entire tile wall to flair and noticing it from the tile line where it meets the drywall. Not sure if this makes sense. But trying to figure out best approach to stop that. When you fold the corners it makes it thicker causing the flair. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. It’s a problem on ALL our jobs and every builder I talk to has the same problem. I see you don’t bring the denshield over the pan, how do you tile over the liner below the denshield with a seemless plane?

That dam is killing me

Enough wood curbs. Form and float with drypack

@Aaron86v

2 ай бұрын

It makes no difference at all, he's using a pan liner.

@ndsrocks1

2 ай бұрын

@Aaron86v it does make a difference as any water making it to the wood(most likely from the outside) will expand the wood and compromise the curb Same amount of water on a drypack curb will have no effect.

@ndsrocks1

2 ай бұрын

@BonBon770 I've yet to see a wood curb that didn't have intrusion points all along the outside perimeter. This is also assuming the wood used is properly dried and not the wet waiting to twist stuff in stores today. Forming a curb with wood and floating with drypack is cheaper quicker and better. No slicing liner, no patching, no fastener holes, easy custom sizing, easy sloped top = no brainer.

@ndsrocks1

2 ай бұрын

@BonBon770 no, slicing of liner is not necessary in 90% of poured curbs

@alwayssearching1882

2 ай бұрын

Waterproof the entire curb and substrate before constructing curb. Never a problem.@@ndsrocks1

No more Schluter?

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

Nothing wrong with Schluter. Never had a leak and I don't like wood curbs wrapped in cement board. Cement blocks or foam curb cut down to 4 inches. There too tall

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

But everybody's got their comments so Life Goes On

@DavidWhite-iv9xw

2 ай бұрын

Schluter stands by their products if something goes wrong and if you didn't do anything wrong they will back you up

I've heard that this method of shower pan is bad idea and someday will leak 100%, and holes in the drain won't work cause of salt deposits and contamination... even in schluter workshop this moment was discussed

You're killing me Issac, no reason to cut circles at drain OR bolt holes 🤦🏻....a simple X cut does the trick...just saying

@ndsrocks1

2 ай бұрын

If you just leave an x-flap in your drains, you've reinforced that you're the kook of the industry

@dallinbagley4486

2 ай бұрын

@@ndsrocks1it’s long been known that StarrTile is not the standard to strive for. I’m convinced he’s trolling for page interaction at this point.

@stephenbrickwood1602

2 ай бұрын

Exactly what I thought Star. Water runs down to the point of the X and drops down into the drain. 😊😊😊

@Aaron86v

2 ай бұрын

If you pay attention, he did that with the blots because with the cast iron drain cant be placed with the bolts still on, it's not like the plastic flanges that have the holes for the bolt and you twist them on. Would've been difficult to put the bolts back in with the X. Doesn't make a difference, he added sealant on the inside and outside of the drain, water can't get in or out. As far as leaving an X inside the drain, there's no logical reason to keep it there. The sealant is there for a reason, the clamping of the drain already does a decent job sealing out water.

@StarrTile

2 ай бұрын

@dallinbagley4486 because I'm a maverick and think on my own doesn't mean I'm wrong, and being "standard" is easy, could fake my way through that 🤣 Not trolling here, honestly hate circles cut out unnecessarily..because you can doesn't mean you should ✔️

Anyone else cringe when he used his impact driver to "torque" bolts?

You do so many different systems. What determines what system you’ll use? I and everyone I know may change systems but we tend to repeat the same thing