I was the USAF’s lead (only) Tornado ECR tech in the mid-late 90’s, so it was nice to see those videos from Nellis. Also comforting to know the Luftwaffe is addressing the need for a more modern and capable EW platform.

@Spooky_32

5 ай бұрын

Tornado Gaming

Sead only expensive till you start suffering jet losses in a war. Then the value of Sead is shown.

@geiers6013

5 ай бұрын

True and if you also have a working DEAD you get complete air dominance and nobody will complain about cost anmore.

@dominuslogik484

4 ай бұрын

@@geiers6013 Instead everyone after the fact will act like you didn't encounter air defenses at all and just stomped on a defenseless nation regardless of the actual numbers of modern and up to date air defense systems utilized by said nation. *cough* Iraq *cough*

@geiers6013

4 ай бұрын

@@dominuslogik484 True sadly

Kind of refreshing that the government does something that is somewhat cheap, fast, simple and logical. Is this the first time in the history of mankind?

@T.efpunkt

5 ай бұрын

Certainly a first for german arms procurement

@grandrapids57

5 ай бұрын

all of Russia runs on the first 3 of those.

@josephparisi1458

5 ай бұрын

"cheap, fast and simple" is what I want out of my fast food. Idk if I want my country to send young men and women to fight in an aircraft that has those traits.

@matsv201

5 ай бұрын

@@josephparisi1458 while yes.. I agree with that. But in this case the choise is not really between cheap and bad and expensive and good. It's between cheap and fast or and expensive and with in 15 years. And if ... well I'm not german. But if my country men would have to fight with either something cheap and good, of something expensive and not actually avalible. I have to go with thr one they actually got to have. Granted yes, eventually there will be a gen 6 eurofighter, and then it's a totaly diffrent thing. Now I don't mind personally (of cause, I'm just a civilian) if eurofighter gen 6 share radar system with gen 6 tempest. (Of cause, yes, the status of tempest is unclear)

@Benepene

5 ай бұрын

I fear russia does not run well whatsoever right now@@grandrapids57

You might have missed this but what they announced was a two aircraft system, Eurofighter EK with defensive electronic warfare to detect enemy radar and a HARM equivalent and an accompanying loyal wingman drone with an offensive electronic warfare jammer pod. The jammer pod being offloaded to the unmanned aircraft is to increase the pilot survivability. As to other customers, Italy were interested in a purchase of the ECR dont know if they maintain that interest in the EK.

@HJJ135

5 ай бұрын

source for this?

@fadfauziug8146

5 ай бұрын

@@HJJ135 trust me bro

@watcherzero5256

5 ай бұрын

@@HJJ135 Tried responding already but KZread doesnt allow links. Search Janes article: IFC 2023: Luftwaffe maps out vision for electronic warfare ‘loyal wingman'

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

​@HJJ135 : FFS, the amount of seconds it took for you to ask & wait for a source, you could've just Googled it yourself, like what I did & found the info straight away, it's not hard.

@MilitaryAviationHistory

5 ай бұрын

That‘s correct (rgrd loyal wingman) however even during the announcement the Luftwaffe cautioned that this was at this point a vision only. There are as of yet no agreement anything specific. I could have worked this into the video as a bit of speculation - but I prefer not adding such tentative content.

The tail art in the concept painting that Airbus released is . . . something.

@MilitaryAviationHistory

5 ай бұрын

From my observation, Germany has a faible for these over the top art styles on aircraft

@danieltaylor5231

5 ай бұрын

@@MilitaryAviationHistory Its Tradition! Going back to WWI and the Flying Circus.

@antonleimbach648

5 ай бұрын

I think it looks cool. The obvious symbolism between lightning and electronic warfare is great and I’m sure they will refine this artwork several times before delivering those planes.

@T.efpunkt

5 ай бұрын

It certainly has some truck cabin airbrush art vibes 😅

@asdasdasddgdgdfgdg

5 ай бұрын

​@@T.efpunktExactly. Absolutely love it. 😊

Maan, the Tornado looks so good. It Looks like a muscular, low level, brawler.

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

I'm with you on this. Although, in terms of mission capability. The Typhoon's superior in almost every aspect. The Tornado just looks so much better.

@ismt101

Ай бұрын

LoL. No.

I am honestly really happy how this turned out. I think the F-35 complements the EF really well and can bring some new capabilities to the Luftwaffe that the Growler would not have. Still think they should make the EKs two seaters, just in case.

@termitreter6545

5 ай бұрын

It is a bit surprising that the EK is a one seaters, but that might be for cost/time reasons. I do wonder if the F-35 will take on EW missions as well, considering they bring a lot of tech with them, and the EKs seem to be less extreme modificatoins. Either way, EFs and F-35s are likely among the best fighter planes out there, so after all its really not that bad of a spot to be. Expensive sure, but thats not surprising anyway.

@ViktorBengtsson

5 ай бұрын

Now I'm curious, just in case of what do you think the EK should be two seaters? What would the extra person do that isn't already being done by computers instead?

@BillMcD

5 ай бұрын

@@ViktorBengtsson military's general preference for human operators over machinery and computers. Basically a bunch of old people in policy think computers aren't reliable, but those policy makers get phased out over time.

@davidgoodnow269

5 ай бұрын

A second seat can provide experience outside of a simulator, bottom line every time. Experienced pilots don't come from nowhere. Second-seat doesn't have to be Electronic Warfare Officer to a mission pilot, alone, in an age of digital cockpit displays and Fly-by-Wire.

@Platycqb

5 ай бұрын

@@BillMcD I mean, all recent EW planes are dual seaters. Even the Chinese J10D. Yes, AI is making huge progress every day, but relying on digital components that can be jammed or hacked is not old fashioned. So, yes, to me, it’s weird that Airbus is going with a single seater solution (with maybe an unmanned wingman).

to my knowledge, the electronic attack (EA) capabilities will be located in a seperate pod, developed by Hensoldt & Rafael (Sky-Shield, Kalaetron Attack). In my Opinion a pod-solution is fine, bc. this will be more readily upgradable than any components built into the airframe - and there will be probably lots of changes & new developments in the EW Area the next decades

Thanks Chris & wishing you a Happy New Year !

Seeing the Eurofighter and the Gripen together is just so amazing 😍 🔥💥🛩️🔝

Thank you for another informative video, always enjoy them!

EK is cool but I personally find the AMK aerodynamic rework even more interesting. The Eurofighter has always been an impressive airframe but the AMK managed to SIGNIFICANTLY improve turn radius etc. Maybe you could make a video about it.

@magoid

5 ай бұрын

It is such a simple airframe modification. It bugs me that it wasn't made standard on new airframes coming from the factory.

@asdasdasddgdgdfgdg

5 ай бұрын

​@@magoid100% agree. Its almost comical in a sense.

@thorwaldjohanson2526

5 ай бұрын

Ek, sensors, sensor fusion and networking is much more important than a better turn radius. The age of sog fighting is long over.

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

​@@thorwaldjohanson2526: The age of dogfighting isn't & will never be fully over. What it is, is less likely. If it was "over." Airforces around the world wouldn't waste a shit load of time & money still practicing for that very outcome.

@gbornitz

5 ай бұрын

​@@magoidApperantly the cost for recertification of the EF for the AMK is very high and the countries are already satisfied with the flight performance, hence nobody adapted it.

Would be great to get a squadron or two of these for the RAF to replace (or even rebuild) the Tranche 1s that we're retiring. Current experience coming out of Ukraine seems to be highlighting the importance of EW, it would be a useful niche capability to add into the NATO mix and it would help bolster the size of the Typhoon fleet (both nationally and across Europe), which helps keep prices down for everyone. Of course that would require a UK government that wants to do something other than cutting defence capabilities...

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

If anything, it makes more sense for our F35s to take that role as its stealth characteristics & its far superior avionics suite would help it to be more survivable in that role.

@termitreter6545

5 ай бұрын

@@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM Tbf we dont actually know how the F-35 avionics compare to late Typhoons. The US navy also eg uses FA-18 Growlers for offensive electronic warfare missions, which the F-35s werent designed for. I dont think the USAF has specialized "EW fighters" like the US navy or german air force has anymore. F-16s or so can be equipped with jamming pods that are likely more powerful than an F-35s internal jammers, though. But I do think it might make sense to use a more specialized EW version of the F-35, if the UK needs one. For Germany its quite useful for various reasons to keep more EFs flying, but the UK has cut down their aircraft numbers by a lot.

@LondonSteveLee

5 ай бұрын

@@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM F-35B is a piece of junk.

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

@@LondonSteveLee: Well, if it's all the same to you, I'll side with the opinions of the people that actually fly it. 😉

@TheGreatAmphibian

5 ай бұрын

@@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM The f35 has pathetic sustained energy and hence poor missile evasion. And a very questionable sortie rate: what is really significant here is that the Germans chose to jury rig a new Typhoon variant rather than using the F35 knowing its capabilities.

Thanks for the info. Great vid as ever.

How did I just now find your excellent channel! Great video! I have some catching up to do now! Thank you!❤🎉🎊😃

Huh.... I never thought this project would really go anywhere. Perhaps I am just not in the loop as much anymore but these developments really didn't show up in media I follow. Still interesting developments. Most informative Chris.

@MilitaryAviationHistory

5 ай бұрын

There were only a few “milesstones” in the international press. The main one was in summer 23 when the intention to have an Airbus-Saab cooperation was first announced. Beyond this, every now and then it popped up in specialist outlets in Germany - until the recent announcement that got shared again.

@cannonfodder4376

5 ай бұрын

@@MilitaryAviationHistory Rather limited in the way of press releases compared to other programs. Always gotta keep an eye out for specialized press.

@Narses_the_aremnian

5 ай бұрын

Cool makarov on the pdf

So those EW pods at the wingtips are Gripen's right? they look exactly the same so I imagine that's SAAB's part in it.

Makes sense, and uses the right partners to develop this into production quickly.

Electronic warfare jets used to coat their canopies with a thin layer of gold or ITO (indium tin oxide) to protect the pilots from the aggressive electronic signals. EA-6B used gold film, F-22 I know uses ITO but more for stealth purposes not EW. I wonder why they stopped doing this with the Growler and other jets with a lot of EW.

@Ag3nt0fCha0s

5 ай бұрын

Cos the pilots r gold. Or so they believe

@RonJohn63

5 ай бұрын

Two questions: 1. Where do the aggressive electronic signals come from (isn't the EA-6B's radar in the nose of the plane)? 2. Would a layer of gold sooo thin that visual photons pass right through *really* block lower energy radio photons?

@BasedF-15Pilot

5 ай бұрын

@@RonJohn63 No they use pods, usually wing mounted. Photons don't easily pass through the layer. At certain angles, even visible light is deflected off the canopy. Search 'F-22 gold canopy' and click images, you can't see in and clearly make out the cockpit. I think the gold acts as a faraday cage for certain radiation emissions.

@adrien5834

5 ай бұрын

@@BasedF-15Pilot I think it's also a RCS reduction measure. The equipment in the cockpit has a larger RCS than a radio opaque canopy does. I seem to remember that was one of the reasons stated for gold-plating Rafale's canopy.

@gbornitz

5 ай бұрын

@@RonJohn63 Regarding the 2nd point: Radiation can't pass through a metal grid, if the grid has half the size of the wavelength. Visible light has a very short wavelength and can therefore pass through the gold layer, but radars have wavelengths of 1 mm to 10 m. At those wavelengths the gold coating appears as a solid sheet of metal.

And the Swedes are now a huge game changer now we’re all NATO friends. Time to ramp up Meteor production and can we restart Storm Shadow/SCALP production? I know it’s a bit old hat for NATO but by George! It seems to mess up the Russians quite well.

@thorwaldjohanson2526

5 ай бұрын

This is the most important thing. I remember a bunch of years ago, Germany didn't even have one long range AA missile per Eurofighter. That's just ridiculous. The best aircraft is useless (besides isr) without the ammo.

@TheGreatAmphibian

5 ай бұрын

Nothing has changed at all about the availability of Swedish avionics. They’ve always been for sale to western countries.

@positroll7870

5 ай бұрын

SWE already did Taurus together with GER. Not StormShadow / Scalp (that's MBDA only)

@gnarl12

5 ай бұрын

Storm Shadow/SCALP are due for replacement

Sehr interessant. Be well and stay safe

I loved the look of the Tornado.

At 26 seconds: It's weird to know that I worked on this aircraft over 25 years ago. Judging by photographs I found in the web, it is still flying.

Well it has a kickass paint scheme on the tail.

Another interesting point: will it be a single oder two seat aircraft. KI or not. Having a dedicated system operator has it advantages.

One solution for adding jammers would be to use the conformal take shape but use them for ECM jammers. You could also use them for extra chaff and flares. That would allow the weapon stations to stay clear for use with Fuel tanks, ARM missiles, decoys, and other systems.

@Farweasel

5 ай бұрын

There's some sound logic to that. It shouldn't detract much from performance - In fact making it fatter but also slippery aerodynamically might enhance performance. Maybe it comes down to need to be able to swiftly and easily swap modules & munitions out?

@dogsnads5634

5 ай бұрын

One slight problem.....the conformal tanks couldn't be made to work aerodynamically, hence why they were abandoned....so its a complete non starter.

@dogsnads5634

4 ай бұрын

@poiujnbvcxdswq That is not what Airbus have stated...

@dogsnads5634

4 ай бұрын

@poiujnbvcxdswq 'Merely'....Airbus said it wouldn't work, particularly at higher speeds. Adding the AMK would entail running a full flight test programme across the entire flight spectrum again, including release of all weapons....and that would cost £100's millions...at that point you may as well resurrect 3D Thurst Vectoring and the higher powered engines and do them at the same time.....and thats why no-one has done it...

Military Aviation History, please make a video about LUWES while you are at it. IIRC Eurofighter EK is a (small) part of LUWES.

Despite the potential of automation, it feels like there would be more flexibility and more risk mitigation if the two-seat platform was used for EK.

@termitreter6545

5 ай бұрын

Its kind of a cycle with aircraft: First automation gets better, so theres more focus on single seaters, but then the new capabilities are so complex they again need a two seater. Then automation gets better, so single seat, but capabilities grow, so again two seaters become popular. Then vice versa, the whole thing again. Especially when the pilot soon is supposed to control a bunch of drones, I wonder if thats not just too much work load. I wonder if the F-35 has a problem with that as well? Automation and big LCDs or not, they added a ton of capability to that flier.

From what I've seen so far, the underwing podded jammers have been put on indefinite hold at the moment. Typhoon has only 2 underwing stations capable of carrying the pods or the underwing tanks, and given that the 2-seat variant already removes some of the internal fuel to make room for the rear seat, the heavily laden and draggy aircraft would've been very short on fuel with only a single fuselage tank. Alternatives such as carrying fuel tanks on the inboard stations or adopting the conformal tanks have both been proposed but mooted by the looks of things. Supposedly clearance and flight control issues with the inboard tanks and the substantial modifications to the aircraft's electronic flight control systems and performance concerns with the CFTs seem to have killed both of those options for now. The currently proposed AREXIS suite seems to be largely a replacement of the existing PRAETORIAN DAS suite with more sophisticated self-protection jamming and emitter locating capabilities. Giving the Typhoon ECR a role more akin to the Tornado ECR it replaces, locating and destroying emitters kinetically, rather than the EA-18G Growler with its additional electronic attack and escort/stand-off jamming capabilities. There is obviously room to change this with enough will and money, or to find alternative solutions such as the integration of the UKs forthcoming SPEAR-EW decoy to plug the gap but only time will tell.

@dogsnads5634

5 ай бұрын

Thing is....Praetorian DASS is getting a massive upgrade anyway under Praetrian Evolution. And not having Radar 2 with its extensive EA ability is another massive loss.... Typhoon EK is a massive disappointment compared to ECR....

🇩🇪 has always put an emphasis on recee & EW aircraft. It's good to see some nations haven't dropped the ball.

@cyan_oxy6734

5 ай бұрын

If reality didn't get in the way German planning would be the best in the world.

Thanks Chris, I feel like I'll need to read a transcript of this to properly process and understand this. I guess I can just watch it a few more times. In the meantime, I hope you have a very Happy Holiday and don't get eaten by the Yule Cat or stuffed into a bag or any of those other things that happen in foreign parts.

@MilitaryAviationHistory

5 ай бұрын

Hey, thank you! Let me know what parts were difficult to follow - that is good feedback for next time

@jacobdoolan4978

5 ай бұрын

Welp ig no response for improvement there XD

@frostyrobot7689

5 ай бұрын

@@MilitaryAviationHistory I thought it was pretty clear all the way through Chris (native English speaker here). Original commenter might have a different pov though.

@sk.43821

5 ай бұрын

​@@MilitaryAviationHistory Für mich als militärischen Laien und Englisch Fremdsprachler ist das Vortragen etwas zu flüssig. Ich würde mir im Redefluss eine etwas akzentuiertere Hervorhebung z.B. von Komponenten- und Systemnamen wünschen. Dies war mein erstes Video Ihres Kanals und ich fand es eben etwas zu _gleichmäßig_ betont, so dass teilweise die Struktur in der Betonung der Aussage etwas verloren geht. Aber das ist nur meine Wahrnehmung. Vielleicht gewöhne ich mich noch ein. Extrem wichtig finde ich, deutsche Aussprache aus einem englischen Vortrag rauszulassen. Das hört sich für mich schrecklich an. "Luftwaffe" ist okay, weil Eigenname und englische Aussprache sinnlos wäre. Aber "Eurofighter" sollte definitiv englisch ausgesprochen werden. Bei "EK" tendiere ich mehr zur englischen Version, mit der deutschen Version ggf. mit eingeflochten. "EK" und "Elektronischer Kampf" in Deutsch eingebunden ist gut, damit die englischen Muttersprachler mal eine vernünftige Betonung eines kontinentaleuropäischen "E, e" hören. Okay, zuviel Text von mir. Vielen Dank für die Nachrichten und Einblicke! Viel Freude weiterhin mit dem Kanal!

Will this be based on 2 seat airframe?

I think the obvious answer to will it it do x is not yet- rather sensibly they're rushing to get SOMETHING down they can use to try and hope to add additional functions later. Either a switch to war procurement or to avoid the all or nothing procurement pifalls of the past. An experimental squadron perhaps. There isn't a huge cost to doing this, it doesn't even cut them off from buying a different system in future. Its good to see them get the balls rolling before everything is confirmed. Imho it is a good idea to do even if it is likely to be poor. And maybe should've been done on paper long before now.

The photos show the single seater. Is this confirmed? This would be different from the EA-18 and the Tornado and require a lot of automation.

@asdasdasddgdgdfgdg

5 ай бұрын

It will indeed employ plenty of AI. The software will not come from Saab it will come from AI specialists Helsing.

Lots of comments about "this year". Does Germany work of calendar years (Jan - Dec) or financial years (Jul - Jun) in this context? That is, do they have days to make this decision or six months?

Will the standard engine and power produced be enough power for the AI and advanced analytics being used for EK

I find it very odd that any modern fighter from the 90s and on isn't set up for any type of role, just by hanging different equipment from it. An EW variant should be as simple as taking ANY regular fighter and adding pods, like you'd add fuel tanks and missiles. Plug and play. If the systems need more power - then a generator in an underwing pod will handle that, and naturally the aircraft would be set up to be able to deliver fuel from its own tanks to that generator. The whole point of the generation of fighters developed in the late 80s was to allow them to switch between any and every role, from flight to flight, with the exact same airframe. Nuts, just nuts!

@CoComator

5 ай бұрын

This kind of system will require a lot more computing power which can not simply be stored in pods. Plus it has a way higher energy consumption so you will have to account for that as well. Further the EF only has a 100 Mbit databus which most certainly is not sufficient for this. EF EK will require a lot of rework and modifications if they actually want to integrate it into the existing airframe. I do not envy the engineers tasked with this and my assumption would be this will take quite a while before it is actually operational, like 5-10 years with 5 being quite optimistic.

@mytube001

5 ай бұрын

@@CoComator Which was my point. It's absolutely INSANE that a modern fighter isn't prepared for any kind of loadout, even ones not yet developed (but whose general characteristics and demands can be reasonably estimated). Then again, a large underwing pod the size of a fuel tank definitely has many times more volume than any spare avionics volume available inside the fuselage, so that's not an issue. 100 Mb/s sounds plenty enough if all processing is done externally, and just the condensed results are relayed into the cockpit.

@CoComator

5 ай бұрын

@@mytube001 But thats the point: The calculations cant be done in the pod because the processing power required for that wouldnt fit in the pod which already has to store the transmitters and receivers and the electronics attached to that. Further 100 Mbit is nothing. Modern systems run on 10 Gbit fibre and depending on the application that is already painfully low bandwidth and latency. Even using FPGAs to do preprocessing the amount of data that needs to be transfered in as little time as possible is huge. And to tackle the upgradability: The technology used nowadays was not available in the 90s and nobody was really able to predict the impact of GaN HEMT amplifiers while they were still trying to figure out how to apply 2DEGs in semiconductors. Same goes with BUS systems.

@sebc8938

5 ай бұрын

Yes, it is an outdated solution. Originally, planes were developped around very specific missions. Progressively, planes were developed with variants for different missions, with less and less variants with time. Modern fighters are supposed to be capable of nearly all the missions using pods if they are designed with provision for power generation, some cables space, ...

@thorwaldjohanson2526

5 ай бұрын

Compute would absolutely fit in a pod and the power requirements are not that bad. The transmitters are the power hogs. But really any modern fighter should have aesa radar, which can be used for electronic warfare given it has enough compute and the software.

We need a video how helicopters were used in korean war tactics and logistics

Upgrade existing airframes is a smart move - if they buy additional Tranche 4 airframes. Considering the urge to modernise older airframes it is cheaper to buy Tranche 4 airframes and modernise older airframes, e.g. Tranche 2. Sweden and Finland being admittedly NATO Partners will bring a new dynamic to next gen systems, not only due to their rapidly increasing Security needs. In a more recent timeframe I can absolutely see the Migration of electronic platforms on drone airframes. ECW and even AWACS roles can be fulfilled by existing long range drones circling atop the Battlefield.

BAe provides most of the (non RADAR based) ECR capabilities for F-35 - creating a package for Typhoon would be a trivial undertaking for them - this is why NG are mostly funding this project - they are left out in the cold and want a slice of the action.

@dogsnads5634

5 ай бұрын

Northrop Grumman are only providing the AARGM/AARGM-ER missile....not the EW components. Thats Saab.... And the BAE division that produces the EW components for F-35 is the US division, NOT the UK....and there are very strict firewalls in place. Any UK EW components would come from Leonardo UK.

Given the recent lessons i wonder if the electronic attack component should not receive a higher priority.

Ist PRAETOR (die EW-Suite die Airbus für die TR4 vorsah) wohl doch nicht so gut, wenn die das Saab-System nehmen?

Next I want see is the Dassault Rafale

How did they solve the nuclear capable plarform? Referring to your previous video. And as always, very informative and thoroughly researched. Thank you.

@nomenestomen3452

5 ай бұрын

They, Germany, ordered thirtyfive F-35 just for that role. Would be sure not a big thing just to integrate the nuclear package to the Eurofighter but the yanks said no because they wanted a dead-end argument for it's "allies & friends" to waste a ridiculous amount of money on their F-35's instead. That's the yanks for you.

@ChucksSEADnDEAD

5 ай бұрын

​@@nomenestomen3452 More like, it would take time and money to rate an aircraft for nuclear delivery when the F-35 comes like that from factory. Anti-Americanism is so funny.

Yes, but does it have a Griping Gretchen?

Phenomenal aircraft

Thank you for the update....

Hi. Please enlighten me on a bit of a naive question: What part of EW requires a specific adaptation of the airframe? External pods seem so much more flexible in terms of future development and mission specifics. The video mentioned the cooling of the components? Is it volume/weight relevant? This question already applies to Tornade IDS vs ECR of course. And Super Hornet vs Growler, although in that case I can see the different requirement in the two-seat variant for EW. Anyone know the specifics of airframe internals for EW? At what cost do they come compared to the regular variant? (weight? fuel capacity?)

@ChucksSEADnDEAD

5 ай бұрын

Cooling is relevant to volume, electronics that pump out heat have a limit to their operation and thus the aircraft must be capable of keeping temperatures lower than this limit. An external pod has little outside area to serve as cooling. An internal system could have the electronics cooled by the aircraft systsems or have the heat directed through an exchanger to preheat fuel before injection, etc.

If it is a two seater varient it would make sense to build brand new air frames. Single seater would tax the pilot to much if they are considering MUM-T foe ECA attack.

I don't get it. It doesn't need to be a high speed, highly manoverable jet fighter. A longer fuselage and larger wings would make sense

Hello. Very nice video. Just one comment, currently FCAS Is not a France- Germany Programme.

Thanks

@MilitaryAviationHistory

5 ай бұрын

Thanks so much!

@MilitaryAviationHistory, if I may venture some personal questions and opinions ... the decision to develop the Eurofighter EK is interesting in light of previous German government interest, brief as it was, in the SuperHornet F/A-18E/F for the strike role with the Luftwaffe. Had that order occurred, acquisition of the EA-18 Growler, which shares the same airframe, might also seem to have been a logical, if not irresistible, decision? (That was certainly the case with my own country, Australia, which ordered the Growler even as it awaited delivery of its first SuperHornets. In fact, the first "AusGrowlers" were built out of airframes already acquired for RAAF SuperHornets.) So I'm guessing that the idea of doing the Eurofighter EK may have been around for several years and could even have been a factor in Germany's loss of interest in the SuperHornet? In other words, the much greater expense and significant delays caused by developing the EK were weighed and offset by non-financial benefits - creation of local skilled jobs, development of intellectual property etc?

@dogsnads5634

5 ай бұрын

The SuperHornet and Growler were seen as a dead end (which they are). They're very soon to be out of production with limited numbers of users. F-35 was required specifically for the nuclear delivery mission. SuperHornet could not compete for that role, it wouldn't be survivable and would need the B-61/12 integrated at huge cost. Once SuperHornet was out of that requirement you then got to the fact that it would be insane to run a small fleet of F-35, an even smaller fleet of Growler and a large fleet of Typhoon's simultaneously...at that point Typhoon ECR then EK became the only real choice...

Me when seeing German government doing something useful and in a speedy manner: *shocked pikachu face*

Make a video on HAL Tejas mark1a and mark2 matching it’s class to other jets

f35 ecm? isnt that a bit daft adding emitters to a stealth plane?

Sounds like it would be great if it had a datalink - obviously it does - but one which could immediately send back everything it found and/or communicate it to friendly aircraft. Perhaps a satellite link would do what was needed?

@yves2932

5 ай бұрын

The Airbus A330M tankers will be upgraded for use as communication node for FCAS. Before the FCAS aircraft will even be flying. It could be a useful stopgap solution to integrate the EF EK as well. For the moment the F35 will be integrated as first fighter into FCAS, before the FCAS aircraft is even design complete.

When a video about helicopters in korea?

Could be a situation where the Luftwaffe specialise in EW and then partners such as the RAF offer the strike platforms?

Yes.

Seems to me that the Eurofighter could easily be modified similar to the F-16XL for ground attack missions. Why not do that?

Didnt you make a video on Germany buying the Growler, and why dont you mention their approval to purchase exaclty 15 Growlers in 2020? Have Germany stepped away from that, or will they work parrallel? I can see reasons for both paths, but whats the status - was there an order? (EDIT: you did make an exact video on the topic ;) and explained why Germany hadnt ordered and wouldnt, and this EK development is a natural outcome of this)

Can anyone explain the capability differences between f-35 and a given dedicated ECR 4.5 gen? I always wondered when the UK dropped the tornado ECR what was filling that role, and i couldn't find where to look to find out so i just assumed an f-35 would fill the role or otherwise be able to perform sead using stealth and render the role irrelevant? But given germany is acquiring F-35s and doing this anyway, and the RAF is adopting ECR capability in some of its eurofighters, clearly this isn't the case? If thats true it feels as if we have had a massive hole in our capability since the tornado was dropped?

@ZuulGatekeeper

5 ай бұрын

Short answer the Typhoon can accommodate a larger unit as such it's radar is more powerful than those fitted to other aircraft such as the F35. RAF has gone for the BAe Systems/Leonardo ECRS MK 2 radar which is the electronic warfare variant of the new AESA radars being fitted to it's next batch of 40 Tranche 3 Typhoons. As for the Royal Navy & it's F35's well EW capabilities are provided by BAe Systems AN/ASQ-239. So both the Navy & Airforce will have significant EW aircraft in their fleets. As for why Germany went for the ECRS Mk1instead of the Mk2 guessing they wanted to retain a domestic capability in electronic warfare.

hit 400k guys

Every Gripen fighter has EW capability 👍🏻

Nice. Really. But can it run doom?

The EF has basic EMW capability build in, but I wouldn't say this is going to be easy or cheap.

The Saab Gripen story has learned us that all critical components of a EU jet fighter should be sourced from EU suppliers. Good to see that Airbus has learned from this story.

@DornishVintage

5 ай бұрын

At least to get licenses to manufacture the stuff "locally". The new Gripen E/F variants use the GE F414G engine (more or less the same as the F-18 Super Hornets).

FCAS is a Germán, French and SPANISH program, and you must know that

@bluefox9436

5 ай бұрын

Spain joined in later though.

@jessrr3780

5 ай бұрын

​@@bluefox9436 Yes, like Japan joined to the UK-Italian program, but today, FCAS is a Ger-Fr-Sp program

@Cartoonman154

5 ай бұрын

@@jessrr3780 Or SCAF

I'm really wondering how effective this will be. Based on what I see it really does not seem to bring a lot of actual dedicated hardware to the table. If no new radar I see it being even more limited.

@Farweasel

5 ай бұрын

Curious interpretation of what's just been presented Nutshell version: You get everything the EW Tornadoes can offer, plus more performance including enhanced SEAD & DEAD, AND somethink akin to 'radar cloaking' (And that's just the stuff they're publicising so far)

@dogsnads5634

5 ай бұрын

What wasn't mentioned in the video is how much of a downgrade from Typhoon ECR that Typhoon EK is..... ECR got 2 seats with a dedicated EW operator... ECR got a rebuilt wing with different plumbed pylons, this enabled the jammer pods to be sited in the best location for 360 degree coverage... ECR got the UK's Radar 2 with full Electronic Attack capability.... EK in comparison has no seperate EW operator...a huge loss EK's are rebuilt aircraft so do not get new plumbing in the wing...so no decent location for pods... EK's get no pods....this must call into question the actual capability of the system as a whole.... EK gets Radar 1, with no/limited EA capability... If Growler needs 2 crew and massive jamming pods then I think its clear that Typhoon EK will have far, far less capability than Growler....

Very interesting!

A.I. is a good fit for signal classification. It is nothing new. The question would be what kind of A.I. is used.

Is this only for a single seater? Losing an EWO is gonna be a big loss surely

@stupidburp

5 ай бұрын

Even with AI to assist it seems like it would increase pilot workload significantly. Using two seaters seems more pragmatic to me.

@Uselessnoobcow

5 ай бұрын

@@stupidburp growler is 2 seater for a reason, I wonder whether this is a case of “it has jamming and can shoot AGM-88s therefore it’s an EW platform”. It more likely will use software to try and bridge the gap but 2 seater jets are cool!

One would have thought that SEAD was properly the province of the F35. It had a much greater level of survivability in that environment.

@fdepalma

5 ай бұрын

That is my thought too. A stealth jet should have an advantage

@Eboreg2

5 ай бұрын

You might think so but the F-35 would have to carry Anti-Radiation Missiles externally so things aren't really that cut and dry.

@AlexRMcColl

5 ай бұрын

@@Eboreg2 to be fair, the Brits are funding SPEAR EW for the F-35, no?

@brianmaloney9784

5 ай бұрын

F-35 A and C can carry the AGM-88 internally.

@AlexRMcColl

5 ай бұрын

@@brianmaloney9784 only the new G version (that was designed to fit inside the F-35A/C). Existing missiles won't fit.

This sounds similar to how ea-18G Growler was developed from the F18.

India could be interested. They are currently considering buying 114 fighters of foreign design. Offering an EW capability could increase odds of winning the selection.

@jonesyjones7626

5 ай бұрын

Anything to do with selling to the Indians is a nightmare.

@gnarl12

5 ай бұрын

India will probably just buy more Rafales

Having such a specialist variant aircratft in so few number is a solution of the previous century. The modern solution would have been for all upgraded EF to use the EW pods and the antiradar missiles only with internal software modifications. This should have been part of the Quadriga upgrade, not a separate program.

@TheGreatAmphibian

5 ай бұрын

This is Dunning Kruger Logic. Yes, that’s an obvious solution. So anyone with a brain would suspect there are good reasons this wouldn’t work that aren’t obvious to an amateur. See CoComator’s post above…

"sort off..." savage. lol

Just grab a 2 seat version of the Eurofighter, Slap a few "Growler pods" on it and there you go..... But I'm guessing that would be too efficient and be missing the over budget component that is a must for any and all government projects...... (I'm half series, and half joking....)

My new bus had same issue. It was a Volvo.

@m.h.b.3828

5 ай бұрын

Volvo is a chinese company.... so black flagged for anything regarding military technology within NATO

@benktlofgren4710

5 ай бұрын

@@m.h.b.3828 not if it was a bus then it is still Swedish, Geely group only owns Volvo Cars, and the rest of the Volvo brand, buses, trucks, haulers, and so on are still Swedish!

This is not a dedicated ECM aircraft like the E/A-18G Growlers of the USAF, RAAF but more like the limited lite ECM aircraft. The lacking of large jamming pods said it all, one just has to look at the large Next Generation Jammer (NGJ) pods for the EA-18G to realise this aircraft is of limited capability. Generation 4.5 aircraft can not operate over a battlefield without true dedicated ECM aircraft if at all...............what is needed is 5th or 6th gen with stealth now.

All criticism are complete BS. The US developed the E/A-18 Growler and there are only orders from the USN and RAAF (Just 172) A ECR version can be integrated into the forces of Germany, Spain, UK and Italy.

While this is good news and seems to be working well, i am still worried about the numbers. F35 and EK may be great, but they are highly specialized planes with expected low availability, and then only 35 and 15 respectively? For now the question is how many you can afford - but once things go south, the real question becomes if you can afford to not have enough of them.

@thorwaldjohanson2526

5 ай бұрын

How is the f35 highly specialized. It's the exact opposite.

@texasranger24

5 ай бұрын

@@thorwaldjohanson2526 maybe complicated would be a better word. It's not the same do it all workplane the F15 or F16 were, but a more complex system with much more limited weapons space etc

@ddshiranui

5 ай бұрын

The F-35s are really just a stopgap measure to maybe carry US nukes around if worse comes to worst, procured for the sole reason that someone finally realized they can't keep Tornados flying until FCAS hopefully materializes in another two decades from now. That's their only purpose, so I was actually surprised to hear Germany ordered this many. More EF-EKs on the other hand would be more useful, I think ... although this is only 6 less than the number of aging Tornado ECRs the Luftwaffe is still operating these days.

2:09 F-45? Is VTOL VR leaking?

Question: What ever happened to the 2 seater electronic warfare version of the 2 seater Gripen Fighter? - I might be wrong but I assumed it would be similar in approach as the EF 18 Growler. Great video guys!

@paulsteaven

5 ай бұрын

No one is interested, a huge risk for Saab right now. Saab claimed that their Gripen E/F is better than most fighters around.

@thorwaldjohanson2526

5 ай бұрын

Sweden just does not have the political and economic power to influence and bribe other countries to buy their aircraft. The gripen looks excellent and could be very cost effective when produced in large numbers. But it nobody buys it, so it's more expensive. The f35 A is now cheaper than the gripen due to its mass production.

@ghostviggen

5 ай бұрын

Gripen already have advanced EW built in. Brazil is developing the Gripen F.

@ChucksSEADnDEAD

5 ай бұрын

​@@ghostviggen They're not developping the F. Saab did. Brazil purchased the license to manufacture domestically.

@ghostviggen

5 ай бұрын

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD SAAB didnt developed a F version since Swedish Air Force never ordered it. I'm sure SAAB is helping Brazil with the development but the F version is a Brazilian project.

Eurofighter Typhoon is Jäger 90 light :-)

Hi Chris. Doesn’t the F-35 have a lot of these capabilities already? Hmm..🤔

@Leptospirosi

5 ай бұрын

Comparing an F35 to a Growler with an EKR would be light comparing a camouflaged shelter to a lighthouse in the middle of the night. Two completely different approach to deal with enemy sensor: make yourself undetectable or just blind them completely.

@TheGreatAmphibian

5 ай бұрын

@@Leptospirosi Well, no. Firstly the f35 only has frequency dependent frontal stealth, which is why it requires jammer support. Secondly, it is supposed to be capable in the jammer role… Which is why it is interesting that the Germans, having looked at its capabilities, think something else is required.

@Nickname-hier-einfuegen

5 ай бұрын

As said in the video, the decision for the Eurofighter as a platform is based on logistics and on the need to support the "local" European arms industry to help them stay competitive. The only reason to buy F35 at all is to have a replacement for the Tornado for the nuclear sharing program. Getting the required certificate from the US for the Eurofighter would've been a long process and maybe even impossible, because the French side of the project is not willing to hand over technical details.

Why didn't they just get the ECRS Mk2 instead of the Mk1 given it's the electronic warfare variant of the new AESA radars. Seems they're solving a problem that's already been solved or maybe it's just they wanted to retain a domestic capability in electronic warfare.

@4:55 is that LERX at the front of the wing as fitted to the AMK enhanced knife fight agility concept from a few years back? If so will this be standard on T4s/EKs? If so and combined with the often teased improved EJ220 and AESA radar the new Typhoons will be finally living up to the potential of the airframe🤞 Would love the RAF to take some and upgrade our T2 and T3s (never gonna happen I know). Imagine that combined with the Japanese/UK meteor AESA seeker upgraded to the once mentioned anti radiation upgrade to meteor and you’d have the ultimate Typhoon!😂

@Akm72

5 ай бұрын

AMK is unlikely, none of the Eurofighter operators seem to think that the low speed/high alpha part of the flight envelope is important.

The UK had the worlds most advanced SEAD platform in the form of the Tornado EF3 (the fastest and best version of the Tornado) armed with the British Aerospace ALARM missile used extremely successfully in the Iraq wars. Oddly, when the missile propellant time expired the UK decided not to build new ones for the Typhoon. The combination of the ECR 2 as will be fitted on the UK Typhoons and new build ALARM missiles would be unbeatable. Not holding my breath though.

They should develop both Tempest and FCAS in a major consortium and then pick the jet that is better for each role

@dogsnads5634

5 ай бұрын

No no no no no.... We're not working with the German's or French again!

I think, that it is about keeping the production line open for Eurofighter, until we have a decision on the production of FCAS (or rather the complimentary drones, which might be Germany’s part, if France secures exclusive production of FCAS). We don’t want to lose the skills and production facilities due to a gap in political decision making…

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

France, stamping their feet & not playing well with others in a consortium. Some things never change. 🙄

@adrien5834

5 ай бұрын

@@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM Oh, absolutely. Some things never change like Euros blaming the French for being forward thinking and having a firm grasp on the issue and then years later coming up with lame excuses for why their own preferred solution failed to measure up to the one the French went with.

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

@@adrien5834: Yes, when the Fart 1st entered service. In some ways, it was a more sorted aircraft. But that was then, this is now. The Typhoon has now matured into a highly capable multi-role aircraft & is widely regarded as 1 of the best air superiority aircraft on the planet.

@adrien5834

5 ай бұрын

@@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM lol, the what? Are you a child? You sound like one.

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

@@adrien5834: Nope? Also, you've never heard me speak, so that's more bullshit your spouting.

I wonder how the F-35 is gonna fit in with this. It is said that the aircraft can provide a Lot of EW capabilities without needing any special variant.

Stilll baffles me where all the fuel is stored - skinny wings!

Will Eurofighter EK become the best European air superiority fighter? combining the best from saab and the pure performance of Eurofighter

@mondocane123

5 ай бұрын

After the Rafale probably...

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

The Typhoon already is widely regarded as 1 of the best air superiority fighters in the world, particularly in Europe.

@nattygsbord

5 ай бұрын

Meh Gripen E can operate from highways, its needs less of a hangar queen, it got better wingloading which makes it superior in turning sharply, its RCS is also the smallest of any non-American fighter. Eurofighter on the other hand needs a large ground crew, it lacks spareparts so much that RAF is cannibalizing spare parts and Luftwaffe only had 4 Eurofighters operational. Gripen on the other hand got no such problems and its extremely low cost per flight hour means that you can afford to fly it more often. And more flying time means better pilots. And as the saying in Top Gun goes - "It's not the plane, it's the pilot".

@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM

5 ай бұрын

@nattygsbord : Come on, get with the program. The parts shortage you're referencing was 13+ years ago, which has long been resolved. If you want to "dredge" up problems from 'ages' ago, let's also bring up all the crashes the Gripen had that were attributed to a 'problem' with its flight computer. Although the Gripen IS a formidable aircraft, no doubt about it (personally, I don't believe that it gets enough recognition). The performance figures of the Typhoon are 'superior' in every aspect. It can carry far more ordinances, further, faster & hgher. It has the highest T/W of any aircraft on this planet & even with a full air-air load, its T/W ratio is still 1.15. Also, the Grippen's wing loading is NOT less than the Typhoon's. It's, in fact, more than Rafale's & the Typhoon has less than both.

I like the Eurofighter Typhoon more than the Rafale

@tigerbesteverything

5 ай бұрын

meanwhile the rafale is better :P oh and you can see the runway, unlike the 2k with the canards blocking the view.

@marcg1686

5 ай бұрын

The Typhoon is a better dogfighter but the Rafale is the superior multirole fighter.

@piotrd.4850

5 ай бұрын

Rafale desperately needs at least minimal engine update.

@tigerbesteverything

5 ай бұрын

@@piotrd.4850 more powerful engine are available, but dga (military procurement) said nah, don't need those. F5 standard will have them or even more powerful. Biggest enemies of military tech are politics.

@marcg1686

5 ай бұрын

@@piotrd.4850 Really? The Rafale exhibits good manoeuvrability with A2G loads, reasonable acceleration and good high altitude performance. The French send their fighters to austere bases for extended periods. Their emphasis is on maintainability rather than outright performance.

Yea.. but is it Final Solution ?

i think it is a future investment, also meant for exports and nato allies. once such a system is developed, i doubt that it is limited to the eurofighter alone. this can be crarried over to future types or like mentioned to the gripen for example. rather seems to me as a european solution to that task. generally i think the EF is much underrated, especially when asking justin bronk.

@chickenfishhybrid44

5 ай бұрын

Bronk in general seems to have a hardon for Gripen. Seems to go beyond it just being the best plane to send to Ukraine even. Either he really thinks the planes and the philosophy behind their use is special or they really treated him well when he was in Sweden, if not hooked him up in some way lol.

@tomlobos2871

5 ай бұрын

​@@chickenfishhybrid44 exactly this. some of his claims, for example about the role of the typhoon were sheer wrong. its not just a high flying AA missile carrier. i see them frequently cause base nearby, one can tell different by just watching them training. gripen isn't bad at all, but i would not even compare them on paper. it's a bit like F-15 vs F-16.

not a two seater?

If the CGI mockups are anything to go by, I think they are making one grave mistake. Namely in making it a single seater. When it comes to ground attack, and even moreso when it comes to electronics warfare, you want a dedicated person in the rear who can focus their entire attention to the task, while the pilot can focus on flying. The idea that automation or AI as they love to call it now, can take over those tasks have proven time and again to not pan out. But their decision to convert existing airframes rather than doing new builds may be the reason. Everyone is operating single seaters as their main aircraft and only uses twin seaters for trainers, so there is too small a fleet to draw from in that case.

@TheGreatAmphibian

5 ай бұрын

The thing about what happened in the past is that it’s.. In the past. Things change.