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Littlefinger kind of forgot he was scheming

The only similarity between book and show Littlefinger to me is that I can no longer read the books without seeing Aiden Gillen in my head because he was so well cast, and played the part so superbly in the first 4 seasons.

@DLR-hi9iu

2 ай бұрын

Bane?

@meloneatingwolf1882

2 ай бұрын

True, I generally default to the show counterparts when I imagine them in the books unless the show character wildly diverges like Euron or the Sand Snakes.

Book Littlefinger: his plan is to end up on the Iron Throne wed to Sansa Show Littlefinger: something something chaos is a ladder? i don't know

It goes directly against Littlefingers character to give away sansa.

I think reason giving Sansa to Boltons feels dumb is that by every metric it’s putting her in danger. Roose killed her mom & brother, & in books it’s pretty public knowledge Ramsey is crazy & cruel. He plays into the existing stereotypes about bastards in Westeros to a t. And littlefinger is a master of spies and information. The idea he wouldn’t have caught wind of Ramsey at all and given Sansa directly to him was ridiculous.

@j.c.jeggis1818

2 ай бұрын

I just watched the episode and it’s even more egregious than I thought. Earlier in THAT SAME EPISODE, Ramsay flays the Cerwyns and hangs their bodies, causing Roose to scold him for using fear to control the North (implying that Ramsay’s actions are public and widely feared). It’s impossible that Littlefinger wouldn’t know, and totally out of character.

Life goals! Littlefinger quit his taxing habit of being smart and entered a more leisurely way of navigating the world. Never thought he’d manage to make the change!

I liked the idea that maybe love is Littlefinger's only weakness because his love for Catelyn was no secret in both the show and the books, but even Catelyn became a piece in his game. Everyone was just a means to getting what Littlefinger wants so to see Sansa completely blindside him was disappointing. I get how it could happen because maybe Sansa is the only one who could pull the wool over Littlefinger's eyes but if he can dupe Catelyn, he can dupe anyone.

Littlefinger accounted for everything, except for the to be change from GRRM to D&D

Another excellent video, as always. Thank you again.

I think the problem is, that this isn't that unlikely a demise for Littlefinger. The problem is that he had become a burden to the show runners as they didnt know what to do with him. If set up better, then there could have been a more compelling end for Baelish, because despite what people think about him being two steps ahead of everyone, Baelish relies on a lot of luck for his schemes to succeed, and he takes plenty of risks in order to get maximum benefits. Littlefinger could easily have died in season 2 and book 2, because Tyrion knew Littlefinger was a schemer, how dangerous he is, how shifty he is and he had a card blanche to kill the counsillors (or, some of them) from his father. Littlefinger also suffers from some of the same delusions Robert does, so there was plenty of room for a good Baelish death. They just failed to set it up, and failed to make the scene compelling

Great video! Was always unhappy with what the show did with LF after season 4. The way he went out was lackluster as well. That Martin bit at the end was perfect, and the only thing the early seasons got wrong was not making him more like able to the audience so it was bigger shock when he pulled off his schemes

As with most of the main characters, D&D showed they clearly had no idea what direction to take with any of them once they abandoned the source material, the biggest mistake HBO made was keeping them on without convincing GRRM to stay involved to the end, it ruined the characters one by one and ultimately the show itself...I can't think of one character they didn't butcher (either literally or figuratively) by the end.

Book Littlefinger we the readers ourselves have no idea what he up to 90% of time. Because we have characters POVS who our generally confused or underestimate him. Even Tyrion who saw through him right away didn’t realize before he left how deep in the Game he was. Ned initially dislikes & distrusts him. Because he needs Littlefinger and Catelyn told him he could be trusted he is forced to let his guard down. Jaime & Cersei view him as a servant to the crown. Useful but not a threat to anyone. That because book Littlefinger is always nice, friendly, and generally in public helpful to those around him. He not a warrior and he barely highborn. His grandfather was a sellsword given small lands as a reward. It wasn’t even until those final chapters of last book we began to “understand “ the depths of his deception. I don’t think his endgame goal is to be king. I think he realistic enough to realize that cannot truly happen but I do think he wants power. He wants to be the most powerful man in the 7 kingdoms. I don’t think he has long term strategy but is Palpatine levels of good into taking advantage of situations outside his control. Show Littlefinger as George said is so wrong. He dumb downed & is obvious to anyone with eyes cannot be trusted. Characters in show repeatedly say how untrustworthy he is… yet still trust him.

In the book, Little Finger mentions a poison called sweet sleep to help Robert. Later, Arya is learning about sweet sleep. Could Little Finger be one of the faceless men just play a part.

Pretty sure Littlefingers scheme was to marry Sansa off to progressively worse people and also make her feel safe around himself, so she would come to him and as long as he wasnt as bad as the others, she'd be happy. Tyrion was probably the least awful of the people who were married to / wanted to pursue her. Littlefinger is manipulative AF, Ramsay is well - Ramsay, and Tyrion was just a dwarf who respected her boundries but was in a family who had her father and rest of her family killed. Not through any fault of his own though.

Great points

@DCharles

2 ай бұрын

Thanks

LF wanting ultimately to become King alongside Sansa as Queen makes no sense, for a character like him- at least as established in the books; he's the ultimate _eminence grise`_ - the power behind the throne - he'd want to be Walsingham to her Elizabeth- her chief adviser, the person closest to her ear- not risk the obvious protests & scandal of being thought of as 'upjumped' & what-have-you -- he's made a habit of climbing his way to power carefully- no chance he'd risk that. He's also been 'collecting heirs' in the books; he's guardian & stepfather to Robin/ Robert Arryn - he has custody of Sansa - & he's about two degrees off of getting hold of Robin's heir-apparent, Harrold Hardyng -- I also believe he's stashed Tyrek Lannister somewhere, though others think that Varys has him. It's really a shame we didn't get more of the Vale politics, because that region (virtually the only region, other than Dorne- that's almost entirely untouched by the Wars of the 5 Kings) is shaping up to be a powerful entity; a strong food-producing region, with easy access to Essos & at little risk of invasion -- it may well change, by the time TWOW comes out, but by the end of ADWD, it's clear that LF is aware this Winter is likely to be a doozy- & he's planning to bleed his enemies dry, _but_ if you expand that perspective out- it could be just as valid to say that everywhere else may well *also* become highly reliant upon the Vale; the Riverlands- once an agricultural sector of importance, is utterly wrecked by the war - the West & the Reach are fending off Ironborn on the coasts, as well as having sacrificed tons of men, & material to the war {in the show the Lannisters' mines have also run dry- there's no hint to any such thing in the books, but it'd be interesting if there were...}- while the Reach is still the powerhouse produce area of the realm, as well as being the most populous, they did get somewhat mauled in the conflict- & the Ironborn raids are not considered insignificant to them -- there's not a lot of detail about the Stormlands in the show, but in the books they were dealing with repelling Stannis (those that chose Renly over him)- & now they're being invaded by the Golden Company...

It would have been so badass if Littlefinger later became the KING. He was the smartest and coldest GAME player plus he came from almost nothing. But D&D were like, "Fuck you."

He had know where else to go. He hit his ceiling

@DCharles

2 ай бұрын

Nowhere to go because he wasn’t in a place that made sense.

Changing Jeyne whit Sansa ruined both Sansa and Little finger. I like Sansa's storyline in the books. In the show they somehow turned Sansa into Cersie 2.0. And little finger became dumb

investing at 2.5k, great vid btw

So disappointing how they did him. One of the best chess players got outsmarted by children just bc they’re girls 😶 girl power I guess.

After S4... It was ass

@joshcoughx

2 ай бұрын

The entire show was.

@actuality899

2 ай бұрын

@@joshcoughxthe first few seasons were some of the highest rated by fans and critics alike. What do you mean?

@joshcoughx

2 ай бұрын

@@actuality899 I meant the entire show was after season 4, sorry. Bad error on my part. S1-4 were incredible.

@forrestburnz

2 ай бұрын

@@joshcoughx nice save, I must agree

@joshcoughx

2 ай бұрын

@@forrestburnz Thanks. I shouldn't have been so sloppy with my language to leave such an ambiguous statement. I lovee S1-4. I'm still sad about the dropoff.

I disagree in that I do think it ruins the story because it's done solely to get more shock value out of a woman being brutalized by Ramsay by making it a major character the audience knows. Instead of Sansa getting some lessons on leadership and ruling from being in the Vale and seeing how the events are playing out there, she's simply raped instead. D&D then double down on it by making the rape *part of* her character development by saying that she's now "stronger" for having been raped. You know, instead of getting hand's on experience of ruling, she's getting hands on her body experience of rape. Blargh.

As soon as source material dried up, D&D had no clue how to handle Littlefinger. He would NEVER had given Sansa to the Boltons or anyone else. He wanted her for himself.

@ziggykatze

2 ай бұрын

It didn't actually dry up. They ignored 75% of the last 2 books

to write a character as smart as little finger you need a writer who is smarter than him…

Everything in the books was better

This was another bit of awful writing by the showrunners. Not at all consistent with Littlefinger's character.