People are not our problem, sin is our problem.

It’s great to hear such discussion on dealing with sin especially in healthy communities. It’s difficult though with the structure and the frame of modern churches to really create genuine loving and challenging communities to deal with sin or the effects of sin. It’s even rarer not only to hear but that this is addressed from the pulpit. The real issues are never really dealt with and a lot of Christians seem to never have the victory over bondages this side of heaven

Oh, Lord our God help us as individuals ~ to be a community

I like the comment that Sin is the problem and not people , this is an important distinction especially when discussing potentially sensitive and volatile issues.

@wetlandweasel

2 жыл бұрын

If Sin is the problem and not people, then does Sin have any power without people?

Really great video. Praying that God would be making more churches like this.

Trust is a great challenge. People dont feel safe.

Paul said that faith works by love. It never works without love. "Born this way" should be every saint's motto. Born into Adam. But, then reborn into Christ, so change is actually a thing.

Words of wisdom. Wow. Just wow! This is exactly what every church needs to hear.

Thank you for this teaching. Agree to be close and trusted. Not to tell that I can see what you .... only to ask if I can help with what you.... Too many people think they are close and can read other people.... and that the Holy Spirit have showed them this and that... In the culture it is a way of talking that looks like caring, but is a culture-method to be with other christians. Nice and good people....it hurts anyway.

4:13 It's been my lifelong experience that the church doesn't want to hear me call for the help that I need.

@kristiarnold9093

6 жыл бұрын

Chelle A =/ Gotta find a new church

@chellea9705

6 жыл бұрын

Would that I could.

@chellea9705

5 жыл бұрын

@Ashley Mercado Any church I've been a member of/attended has been pretty much the same. We live in a tiny community. I can't go looking for another church when husband/son attend the one we're at right now. I wouldn't bother to go at all if it weren't for them.

@RenewalCreations

5 жыл бұрын

@Ashley Mercado it is not always that simple to find another church. Each person's situation varies. For example, I live in a small town of 2,000 people with five churches where we all know each other, in the middle of nowhere, in the mountains, 60 miles from the largest city, and 30 miles to next town. So, it's not just cut and dried in terms of find another church. That becomes judgement on another level. We are constantly told not to judge each other, yet cannot find the balance of it, and either tolerate sin or judge the person and/or the circumstances. We either judge or excuse or play this hypocritical confusion that uses Christian cliches at the wrong time, the wrong person, wrong situation.

@DT-52

4 жыл бұрын

Didn't see too many replies to your most excellent comment, so, here is mine. I absolutely concur with your observation, even witnessed it happen more than I care to admit. The fact is, I believe, the church has become so consumed with consumerism -- it seems necessary to fill the pews -- it has lost the ability to truly deal with sin, either in oneself or another's confession. The progression of that issue is a building full of struggling people, clapping furiously to the beat of the wrong drum. I hope you found your help. If you did I am concerned you are part of the modern church exception rather than the rule.

Boy we are going down a path that might be dangerous we have to recognize and that includes myself Sin is Sin. Let's look at Romans chapter 1 last half of it talk about sexual sin where God said he gave them up because of corrupt mind.

Can anyone decipher this clip and tell me... did she leave her lesbianism in the past That part was not clear to me. Thanks.

@wbl5649

2 жыл бұрын

Yes she did. She is now, and has been for many years, married to a man, who is a Pastor.

@WoundedEgo

2 жыл бұрын

@@wbl5649 Okay, thanks. What she said seemed ambiguous.

P. S. I also don't believe in substitutionary atonement. Clearly these folks seem to.

@LR-dm5ju

Жыл бұрын

what do you believe with regards to atonement?

What did Jesus say about Sin? The answer: not very much. He did suggest that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. Meaning that NOone gets to cast a stone. So this conversation is misguided from the start.

This is so terrific, and so thoughtful. However, I just refuse to entertain the notion that committed relationships between same sex couples is viewed by Jesus as anything other than blessed. There are three or four committed same sex couples in my parish church. They are not living in sin (other than that which the most of suffering and struggling humanity are). I have listened to several talks now from Christians who are gay who stopped that "lifestyle" (sic) when they found Jesus. And that's fine, if that is their choice. Any I certainly don't know the sexual history of these two women, but the two men I have listened to (Becket Cook and Christopher Yuan), what I heard them describing wasn't homosexuality; rather, it was promiscuity, it was sex addiction. They weren't sex addicted and promiscuous because they were gay; they happened to be gay men who were promiscuous and sex addicted. It is the height of ego to project that on the whole community at large. What they DID say, which I entirely agree with, is that they are through identifying themselves by such a limited view, by whom they are sexually attracted to. They identify first as Christian, and I think that's a wonderful step in the right direction. I am a red letter Christian, and I hear a lot of these folks talking about the epistles, and about Deuteronomy and Leviticus in particular, and I don't hear them having much truck with the actual gospels, the actuals Way of Jesus, and that has to be ground zero. I love St. Paul and St. Peter, but they aren't my Lord. I love the Torah, but it's not the gospel. Jesus is the epicenter of my life and everything radiates out from there, and He had NOTHING, zilch, zero to say about same sex attraction. Nothing. He said a lot about licentiousness, and with that I agree. But it is wrong to think that Christians, as Christians, should have any opinion one way of the other about same sex marriage, other than the feelings that we have about, simply, marriage. It is much more profitable to read Leviticus through the lens of the Gospels than it is to read the Gospels through the lens of Leviticus. Finally, the huge error that is made here, I think, is the apparent belief that God was the author of the bible, rather than its inspiration. God did not write the bible. Humans -- humans very in touch with the Holy Spirit, but humans nonetheless -- wrote the bible. It is horrible theology to think otherwise. It's a categorical absurdity. I however do want to say that I believe that these folks are Christian, that they are working it out, and I applaud them for their dialogue. I would sit down and talk with any of these folks and consider it an honor.

So if you don’t believe that anyone accept Jesus was correct, merely inspired, then what makes Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John correct? How do you know those were Jesus’s words if the ones who wrote them were just men? If they are correct, then how do you know the other letters weren’t also correct? To be frank you cut the legs out from your own logic.