In my 43 years in the Lord, the "church" has changed dramatically. It has attached itself to human government and has become a business (Inc.). So I have to become a member of an incorporation to "join". That "business model" carries over in to the "church covenant", which is nothing more than a legally binding contract (back under law?) to protect the "church" when they exercise church discipline. Pastor/elders have positioned themselves as the "church" and they discipline a person with the body of Christ having little to do with it. I saw that problem in pastoral students, years ago in college. believer

We every individual True Believer/ Christian are the Church we do not belong in any one Building or denomination and Be Called Members of Said Building and not Members of the True Body of Christ. When we carry the Power of His Holy Spirit we come Together with Other True Believer/Christian throughout our World 🌎 not in one Place but all Places. Glory to God Hallelujah 🙏🔥🙌❤️👑 Thank You Jesus for Freedom from Religion and Eternal Life ❤️‍🔥👑

Not everyone who is not at a church building, doesn't love Christ and His Church. I was a very active member of a church for 29 years. I never thought I'd leave the church. I have searched for another church but I can't find one and the hurt and grief is overwhelming. I don't know how to trust another church or put myself under church leadership again. Many churches have changed. There is also abuse of power going on in churches. Just because I'm having a hard time going to and committing to another church does not mean I don't want fellowship, a church family and it doesn't mean I don't think Christ's church is important. Churches need to ask and listen and seek understanding from people who have been deeply hurt by the church. It is a very difficult process that I would not have understood until I walked through it.

What scriptures teach and reinforce manmade rituals or criteria to be checked off to be included in an earthly book of membership? This ideology goes back to the temple rules of membership where individuals can be blotted out of the book if the leaders chose to do so for various reasons. The veil was rent for this reason and the money changers power over people’s justification, sanctification and glorification were made very clear that it’s in God’s hands and not men’s hands. When Paul was instructing for people to be cast out of the church, there was no mention of removing their name from a book or list. It’s a spiritual body that we belong and are tied to others, who believe and follow the truth in the Word.

@esanchez41484

Жыл бұрын

Correct, I have been looking for True Fellowship with other Believers in different Churches they either reject you because you are not a member or Accept you under their Conditions to serve as a member. Non of which Jesus has asked of us, but the Buildings Leaders expect from you. That is Not the Church Membership we True Believers are looking for. It is Fellowship Not Membership 🙏❤️‍🔥🙌🔥👑

@maxaplin4204

Жыл бұрын

I think doing church discipline is harder if there is no formal membership.

@kindredsoul1321

Жыл бұрын

Organization and following the Bible will allow for discipline by the elders to still occur and ensures that there isn’t an increase of power by religious leaders as it was in the days of temple worship. Fellowship occurs between each person, who is a member of Christ’s body. We each have a direct line now to the Father thanks to Jesus’ sacrifice. Our oil is filled through the Holy Spirit and not by some merchants, who have taken opportunities to lie to people to gain their money over wanting healings, prosperity, or greater power and closeness to God. Leadership and organization within this physical body are needed and commanded as long as it’s kept in check according to His teachings. No abuse of power, pride or vain glory as observed in many congregations now sadly is no different from those days of old.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

​@@esanchez41484 you sound like you just want to take over😅😅😅😅

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

What a rambling incoherent misuse of twisted bible passages. Obviously 🙄

Hawayu Ligonier Ministries *& I Appreciate Pst. Sinclair Ferguson 4 Answering This Powerful, Blessful, Deep Question on "How Can We Persuade Someone That Church Membership Is Important ?"4 What Pst. Sinclair Ferguson Has Said Is 💯% Ryt Because How Great & How Brethren That Dwell In Unity 4 We Must Not Forsake The Assembling of Ourselves Together Written In Psalm 133:1 & Hebrews 10:25 4 We Must Persuade Someone Thru God's Love That Church Membership Is Important & Very, Veryyyyyy Important* & May Our Great Almighty God Bless Yu Pst. Sinclair Ferguson So Veryyyyyy, Veryyyyyy Much & God Bless Yu Ligonier Ministries So Veryyyyyy, Veryyyyyy Much.🙏🙏🕊️🕊️

It saddens me that the little village where I live has no bible fearing churches and preach contrary theology so I am forced to watch teaching and preaching at home with two or three other souls, we watch John Mac, Alistair Begg, Sinclair Ferguson, often recorded stuff by RC, and then once a week we do a Zoom prayer session with the closest Baptist church which is 2 hrs drive away, I do pray that a God fearing minister who will preach Christ crucified would come plant a church here 🙏

@edcarson3113

Жыл бұрын

A Bible believing church would be a good start.

@edcarson3113

Жыл бұрын

Poor choices of teachers you've picked there. They are Bible correctors.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

I hope the best for you

We are literally teaching over membership, what it looks like biblically and what it means practically, this month at my local church. God’s timing is never an accident and it always catches me off guard!

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

Nice

Church membership is important, but I think it is also good to make this a formal thing in each individual congregation. Without formal membership, church discipline is much harder to enforce.

I want to be part of a church body but im finding it very difficult to find one in my very left leaning area that hasn't started doing things like flying the lgbt flag or allowing women preachers. I don't have a car and would have to walk, which I don't mind, its just I haven't found one that is walking distance that I can in good conscience, attend. So what are my options??

@Yesica1993

Жыл бұрын

It's getting so difficult to find even a generally biblical church! Do you have public transportation in your area? I don't drove either, so I know how hard it is.

@Yesica1993

Жыл бұрын

*drive

@whoathatsanicememe3093

Жыл бұрын

@@Yesica1993 busses don't run on Sunday here unfortunately. What I'm looking into is trying to find a place that maybe has a weekday service and trying that. I think I may have to try a few places before I can find a good fit, but I'm hopeful that I can find a church family. I'd appreciate prayers if you don't mind.

@DogSoldier1948

Жыл бұрын

Depends on your location. There are a number of options. 1. Someone from your church would be glad to pick you up. 2. Church bus 3. commerical ride such as a taxi, Uber, bus etc. Talk to the pastor he would probably find away to get you to and from church.

@biii2909

Жыл бұрын

To quote Dr. R.C. Sproul - "Move. It's that important."

this video is for you @Bill Baehr, 😅

@HearGodsWord

Жыл бұрын

I knew it would trigger him to comment 😅

If only it were that simple, Dr Ferguson! Wholeheartedly agree with the theology and principles. However, sometimes there are insurmountable practical issues, sadly caused by the church themselves, who will not listen. Good churches are few and far between. Not everyone who wants to go to church can do so and they are not 'spitting in the face of God' !

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

You are absolutely right about that. America is in a sad state of affairs 😢

@crushbrain2416

Жыл бұрын

If you are looking for a perfect church before you will commit to one, you will never commit to one! 😂 The whole point of the gospel is that Jesus saves sinners. What were you expecting to find when you believed in him?? Did you forget that you are following the one who was so committed to the undeserving that he died for them? And now he calls you to become like him by giving yourself for the church.

Remind them that the gift/ gifts given to them of the Holy Spirit Is to be used for the furtherance of the gospel and the building up of the body of Christ . Ephesians 4

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

Excellent

@jessyjonas4988

Жыл бұрын

@Harold Zwingley Nepotism and politricks Animal Farm

Today's problem within the church is that people's that converts wants to be pastored only at the moment of worship when they are gathered at the building called church. The church effect in an individual person or either in a group of people, it's only caused by the Word of God revealed within the hearts of the believers by the guide of The Holy Spirit. Look at the first converted. They only have Jesus. No pastor at that time. But The Word of God made flesh. Same should be nowadays, the administration or the so called ministers should be teaching differently. Not a membership based kind of a club ...but respectful of the Word of God.

People hate being told they are wrong. The idea of a "Rambo Christian" is foreign to the Bible.

@HearGodsWord

Жыл бұрын

​@Bill Baehr Elijah wasn't a Christian and he was also a Prophet. Not a good example really!

@HearGodsWord

Жыл бұрын

@Bill Baehr where in the Bible does it say Elijah was the first Christian? John the Baptist was the last prophet. There are however a lot of charismatic false Prophets in America theae days.

@theeternalsbeliever1779

Жыл бұрын

@@1Whipperin Elijah was not alone. Micaiah was also doing God's work at the time(1 Kin. 22), and 1 Kin. 18:4 clearly mentions Obadiah hiding 100 other prophets from the wrath of Ahab and Jezebel. And yes, the idea of a "Rambo" Christian is absolutely foreign to the Bible(1Cor. 12:14-21, Heb. 10:25), Facts do not care about anyone's feelings.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

​@@theeternalsbeliever1779 no one can get rid of him he is obsessed and works to undermine the seekers day amd night

@sawyerwhited6802

2 ай бұрын

@@1Whipperin I agree. How do you build one another up & share your gifts if only 1 man is talking?

Study them see there beliefs before you committ

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

Yes

There are various real obstacles to church commitment in the case of individual believers and specific congregations. Participation in a body of Christians is a biblical norm and mandate, and is therefor essential, but saying honestly "this is where I belong and I am fully committed" is not always simple, especially in modern American evangelical churches. It is not always clear, for example, that a person's actual or perceived gifts can be put to use, for a number of reasons. The preaching may be sound and edifying, while the music ministry is not, or vice versa. And that's just citing the obvious and non-complicated obstacles to full commitment.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

Sound preaching and teaching is above all. Without that it is not Christianity.

More important to know where they are at spiritually A saint of God needs no convincing following the teachings of Christ

The church/Ekklesia means called out one's. The question is now where are the called out ones from? The called out ones were the Jewish old covenant people who were called out from following false gods while they were still under the old covenant into the new covenant before the temple was destroyed in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70.. These were called the lost sheep of the house of Israel in Matt 10-6 and Matt 15-24.. (lost because they were following false gods) The old covenant ended in AD7O; this is what is called; Jesus called this; "The end will come" in Matt 24-14.. and pastors, preachers and theologians misunderstand what Jesus said; and by their weird imaginations they cancelled history and moved it 2000yrs into our present time; calling it the last days. After AD7O there was no place that exists where people could be called out from.. therefore the church that Jesus established had an expiry date which was AD7O. Church leaders have replaced the kingdom of God with made man philosophies of a man made church. Jesus never preach church.. He preached and taught the kingdom of God. Jesus never said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.. He said the GATES OF HADES will not prevail against the church.. Hades is not the Greek word for hell. Hades was the Greek god that judges everyone in Tartarus. (Tartarus is only used once in the bible in 2 Pet 2-4) Hades and Tartarus are euphemisms that was used for the temple in Jerusalem that was advocating false gods under the high priest Caiaphas.. who had Jesus crucified.. And Hades will not prevail against the church.. which means that Hades/the temple in Jerusalem, will not prevail /succeed in preventing the called out ones from leaving the wickedness and evil of the temple following false gods; to join the kingdom of God.. **** This is a correct Exegesis of the scriptures **** Pastors, preachers and theologians are using Esegesis; which means they are imposing their own opinions into the scriptures.

Gbu

Yes, the Bible knows nothing of Christians going it alone. And Sinclair Ferguson makes a good point that our gifts are in large part for the benefit of other Christians, so if we keep away from them, we are not using our gifts as we should.

““His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭23‬ ‭NIV‬‬ Does this sound like you need to be part of a club???

Is every Christian made a member of the body by God upon salvation, or does a person become a member when declared so by a pastor?

Newbie here - at what type of church could I be baptized without joining & before figuring out which sect has the right theology?

@robmarshall956

Жыл бұрын

Why do you want to get baptised ?

@hookoffthejab1

Жыл бұрын

I think it would be far better to be baptized in a church that you confidently know has their theology right, and one that you've already joined. If you're not sure how to find a solid church, ligonier has a good article called "how can I find a good church?"

@danieldaniel7724

Жыл бұрын

Oh what little faith! Call on Our Lord Christ Jesus…ask and you will receive in the presence of Three witnesses. Our Heavenly Father through Christ Jesus and in His Holy Spirit! 👑🎚❤️💕

@morningsonthesea

Жыл бұрын

The conservative baptist churches- such as Southern Baptist - and many of the non-denominational churches (Calvary Chapel, etc.) generally don't require membership in order to be baptized (Calvary Chapel doesn't even have membership). I embrace reformation theology that you'll find more in "reformed" churches but many of them put a lot of hurdles before one can be baptized, so I empathize with you. Good for you for pursuing baptism in order to demonstrate that you belong to our Lord Christ Jesus.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

​@@morningsonthesea that is not good since he has no idea whether he belongs or not😅 He wants the rewards and the show just has no call no sacrifice no repentance. 😢

Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

Then you would listen to this word But you are to seek the place the LORD your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go;

By stopping to be entangled with the goverment&world. We must obey them for now but Jesus said be no oartoftbis world

I can’t find a biblical church in my area. Want to go but what do I do?

@justanotherbaptistjew5659

Жыл бұрын

Be willing to drive a farther distance, work to get a biblical church founded in your area, or move.

i mean in my mind, i'm thinking. Why not? if you're going to a church regularly, don't plan on going anywhere else. might as well get one, there wouldn't be any reason not to

@sawyerwhited6802

2 ай бұрын

If that church is a 501c, it is yoked with the government & signing a membership with that church yokes you to the government thru that church. It seems a very clever snare.

Church membership is never commanded in the New Testament. When the disciples protested to Jesus of a man who REFUSED to join the disciples, He told them not to condemn him because " he that is not against Me is for Me". We cannot go by rationalizations or tradition. "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God". Many other bible characters did not belong to organized groups,, such as, John the Baptist, the prophets, Abraham...

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

What a totally inaccurate strawman🙄

@Just_A_Wafaring_Stranger

Жыл бұрын

Joy, I could not AGREE with you more. The Bible tells us God does not dwell in buildings made with hands. In the Bible "church" never refers to a building but a people that have been called-out by the LORD, redeemed and set apart. These pastors seem to be "adding" to the Gospel words that aren't there and making a "doctrine" out of it.

@user-bj1ve3pg7h

7 ай бұрын

Thanks

So signing something makes you a member ? I believe in committing to a local body. That’s so important. But signing a document isn’t proof that you’re a member.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

No but its an obvious step😅

When I found Yahuah, I lost my religion.

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

Then you didnt find the real one.🙄

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

More accurately he didnt find you😅😅😅😅

@neildavidson3957

Жыл бұрын

Did you?

@neildavidson3957

Жыл бұрын

I sense the anti-Yahuah spirit.

Church membership is extremely important also because it helps define the pastor’s responsibility. Hebrews 13:17 instructs, “Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account.” Whom will a pastor give an account for, except the members of his own church? He is not responsible for all the Christians in the world, only for those under his care. Likewise, he is not responsible for all the people in his community, only for believers under his leadership-his church members. Membership in a local church is a way of voluntarily placing oneself under the spiritual authority of a pastor. It’s also where we learn, grow as a spiritual body with differing gifts, encourage one another, be accountable to one another, find out where each other is biblically and can confront those that bring in false teachings etc Church membership is also valuable for organizational purposes. It’s a good way of determining who is allowed to vote on important church decisions and who is eligible for official church positions. It’s how God arranged his children to live, it’s important enough to up and move if you cannot find a decent church as this is the most and essential place you can partake of within the body of Christ.

@maxaplin4204

Жыл бұрын

Lots of good points. But I would disagree with your point about placing yourself under the authority of 'a pastor'. There should be multiple pastors in a church. The single-leader model has very little biblical support. Multiple-leader churches have an abundance of biblical support.

@robmarshall956

Жыл бұрын

@@maxaplin4204 I disagree max in 1 Peter 5:2 - Paul tells the elders, “Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight . . . not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge.” So the New Testament is not naïve about the abuses of leadership. And, nevertheless, here we have Hebrews 13:17: “Obey them, submit to them.” So I believe in a “small church” setting God is asking me to have a bent toward trusting its leaders and following them not blindly, so for example If they craft a vision and they set some goals, I should be supportive of this. John Stott, wrote (Between Two Worlds [Eerdmans, 1982], p. 51), “Seldom if ever in its long history has the world witnessed such a self-conscious revolt against authority.” We have become anti authoritarian and that’s a major issue within the body of Christ, in place across the world we have harboured and encouraged a a defiant national spirit that exalts individual rights above how God has set up his church. God has constituted various levels of authority under His ultimate authority. The purpose for all authority is to protect and bless those under authority. In the church, God has appointed elders or pastors (shepherds) to oversee the flock (Acts 20:28; 1 Pet. 5:1-4). They are not to lord it over the church, but rather to be examples to the flock (1 Pet. 5:3; 2 Cor. 1:24). On every level, those in authority are never in absolute authority. Every leader will give an account to God! There should always be room for biblically-based discussion of issues (Acts 15), but when the ministers/elders come to a consensus, the church should follow their leadership, unless it is clearly against Scripture on a major point of doctrine as we have just seen played out at gafcon between the Church of England and Anglican Dioceses hence there new statement yesterday. (About 30 years too late frankly) So I’m not advocating for blindly following leaders without question ever. Just saying there is an authority structure within a church for a reason, how could a church function without this, Or marriage in fact I believe we not only should obey our pastors that we are also to pray for them always, asking God to grant them wisdom, humility, a love for the flock, and protection as they protect those in their care.

@maxaplin4204

Жыл бұрын

@@robmarshall956 You misunderstood my comment. I agree with everything you say in your second comment. My point was about the singular 'A pastor', that was the only thing I disagreed with you on your first comment. I think it is a poor model for a church to have ONE pastor. Churches do much better to have several elders with equal authority than to have one guy in charge. I agree with you completely about submitting to the authority of church leaders. I just don't like the very common practice of having one man in a church who has more authority than anyone else. That's all. Other than that, I believe you make a lot of good points.

@robmarshall956

Жыл бұрын

@@maxaplin4204 oh ok 👍 I don’t know what that would look like, I worship in the Anglican Church atm and there’s always been a senior minister and several under him usually. We have a great minister at our local church, very active in all areas, especially evangelism in the community, he teaches scripture at our local public school and takes 4 services every Sunday and then several Bible studies a week along with all the other ministries) sorry for my misunderstanding max ✝️🙏

@samniumspyder

Жыл бұрын

​@@robmarshall956 anglican is not sound doctrine.

Be careful do not join a cult😲