Regarding my thoughts on removing/shortening low-rank, I realize I left out a key part of this, which is that I would want the difficulty curve of high-rank adjusted to compensate. It's not that I want the game to start harder necessarily. Just that I dislike the fact it results in the game being a lot more repetitive. In old games this was okay as High Rank felt like it was supposed to be optional hard mode. But in the new games the design clearly expects you to do both Low and High Rank, so the repeated content feels annoying, especially when combined with the lack of meaningful rewards (see the section on how I find low-rank armor to be underpowered and uninteresting).

Opening sentence, truly agreed. Classic Monster Hunter thrived on monsters being the true Stars of the series. When we hit Gen 5, monsters took a back seat, the hunters became the stars, and we have gone away from the arcade style of Monster Hunter to appease the general AAA crowd.

@ghoulishgoober3122

Ай бұрын

That's strange because a critique I've seen of rise is it being too arcadey

@crigonalgaming1258

Ай бұрын

@@ghoulishgoober3122 Rise got the Arcade style right. Where Rise falls is it made Hunters way too OP which started around World

@IndominusRex-wc1ey

Ай бұрын

In World's defense, ans World specifically *to say monsters are no longer the stars when they have tens if not hundreds of ecological behaviors and interactions with one-another which can be viewed without even having to fight the monsters, is almost false* World specifically THRIVES on the monsters no longer being monsters. They are animals. Evej the spectacular elder dragons (up until the dangerous first class monsters) are animals, all playing key ecological roles in the worlds they inhabit

@crigonalgaming1258

Ай бұрын

@@IndominusRex-wc1ey Monster Hunter used to use the environment to be cruel against the hunter. It had themes of SURVIVAL because man is apparently NOT at the top of the food chain, and man is fighting against his extinction and the environment wants to kill man. Fast forward to gen 5, the environment literally gives you an edge against the monster. Vigorwasps are everywhere to heal. Spores to conceal you so you could have free hits on the monster. Paratoads, Poison Plants to induce sure-fire statuses. The map has make shift traps to impede a monster. You get Grimalkynes that help you in hunts. Turf Wars that sometimes end up in you automatically winning when a savage Jho is around, and so on. Monsters took a back seat when hunters could literally perma flinch now, and I am not even getting into the Clutch Claw which made hunting very obnoxious because of how mandatory it has become. The hunters have been buffed so much that it took away the survival aspect of Monster Hunter. Yes you are right. Monster Hunter became watered down, when monsters refused to be Monsters, because apparently, they have become animals.

@irsandar10

Ай бұрын

@@IndominusRex-wc1ey Welp, he said it... He wanted "monster" not animal. Now every monster should do 2x tail swipe and charge to the wall like they used to. Might've become a Gunner since ages ago...(which in fact a good decision to slay Plesioth LMAOO). Oh yeaa...Rathian tail's suck in older games, I've severed it, it shouldn't be poisonous again, rite???????? (*but i do agree with clutch claw, it's dumb)

I scoff whenever someone says world or god forbid rise combat generic. No one can ever name a game with similar combat with as much weight and depth as world and rise.

@irsandar10

Ай бұрын

I just posted my opinion in comment section and then saw this...LOLL. As other have said, I think this is purely their "personal taste" or nitpicks. I don't really understand their views on World/Rise mechanics as generic while complaining the complexity of weapons in 5th Gen. Just, wow...

@chewbacachunks8644

Ай бұрын

​@@irsandar10 I started with MH4U and I disagree with most of this videos points. I vastly prefer the changes to weapon movesets in world and iceborne. Rise maybe went a little too far with the wire bugs, and they butchered hunting horn. Clutch claw was a little too powerful as well. But outside of those things. Pretty much all the changes they made I prefer over old MH. The more complex movesets are not in any way a detriment to me. And his point of saying that many of the new moves are useless is completely off base. I learned how to play all of the weapons in world and iceborne and every move in their movesets gets used. None are useless, outside of a very few exceptions. Learning the weapons and getting good with them was some of the most fun I had. More moves isn't a downside. I see it as a challenge to overcome and master.

@zerozone5848

Ай бұрын

@@chewbacachunks8644 some people might say the slinger burst attack on Charge blade in World is useless. But no it's actually useful because you can use slinger burst to prevent yourself from upswinging players while youre in savage axe mode. Sure you can just stop attacking for almost a second to cancel the upswing move but if you have slinger ammo with you right now, slinger burst gives more DPS.

great video! dont really agree to the shrinking armor sets from 5 pieces to 3 pieces though. not because of the skill points themselves (i agree there is a balancing issue in endgame), but because 5 separate armor pieces existing are an integral part of the armor design visuals. many people (me included) would rightfully hate the loss of diversity and possible variation when it comes to creating outfits with the armor pieces given if we have only 3 slots to change instead of 5 monster design, weapon design and armor design are the base "holy trinity" of VISUAL design in this series. at this point, saying "you cant have 5 separate armor pieces" is like saying "you cant design a monster with more than 4 limbs". it screws with the visuals and the reason some people play the games in a fundamental way thats really not necessary, just to fix a balancing problem that surely could be fixed in many different ways

As a new player to MHW I definitely needed low rank and it was invaluable to learning the game. I needed the easy monsters to practice and learn.

Really enjoyed the vid, also agree with most of your points. I really hope that they balance out the skillsystem a bit. Like you said, giving some more accessibility of skills in low rank, but also overall reducing the number of skills to make at least most of them give you a different feeling when hunting. I probably would go as far and remove most static number increases like Attack Boost, Crititcal Eye or Defense Up and replace them with some more unique skills, like Grinder (S) from Rise that increases you damage based on how many sharpness levels you recovered, or even sth like Weakness Exploit, rewarding you for a specific playstyle. We could also Buff Bludgeoner skill a bit and combine it with the Rise version of Fencing, increasing your damage on Hard parts of a monster. That would give you the option to build a set that allows you to not care about precision and just unga-bunga your way through most monsters. Also, even though I just found your channel, I'd definitely watch a 1h+ Vid of you just rambling about your thoughts on different MH Systems!

As long as Wilds regains a good level of challenge and they manage to make the open world immersive with all the ecosystem details and interactions, then it's gonna be the best game in the series for me. Started with Freedom 1 back in 2006, btw. Regarding Low Rank, I agree with the fact it should be reduced, essentially making it a long tutorial. It's not even that the idea of LR/HR compared to older games is no longer there, it just changed. In older games, LR was the default and HR was the hard mode, meanwhile in modern games the default mode is HR and the hard mode is the endgame, the post-game content. So it doesn't make much sense to have LR as the default. Also, to be honest, since I replayed them recently, LR felt already way too long and kinda pointless in 4U and GU.

What's insane to me is the fact that no true indie game inspired by old monster hunter has come to fill the void the new ones are leaving in the community.

@Rusty_Spy

Ай бұрын

Because the old MH still exists and people just play those?

@j.s.t.6515

Ай бұрын

@@Rusty_Spy Yeah, but after you play those, it would be nice to still have more Moster hunting, duh

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

Probably a mix of the fact that Monster Hunter games are fairly complex, the fact that Classic's greatest asset is something as nebulous as its gamefeel (which is hard to discuss much less recreate), and the fact that even big budget studios struggle to make successful MH-likes. That said I would love to see a quality indie take that keeps what was special about Classic MH while also adding something new and interesting.

@manikaditha6308

Ай бұрын

Realistically speaking Why would they try to cater a small market. I hate to say it but mh before world wasnt extremely popular for a reason. It simply isnt for everyone. It was popular alright but not that popular. Not to mention how complex mh is, the weapon, the lively monster and environment, too much work for a small potential.

@j.s.t.6515

Ай бұрын

@@manikaditha6308 I know, but that's why Indie makes sense, it doesn't need to be the bigest thing ever to be succesful, and a lot of indie developer make their games in big part just for the love of it, so it's a shame that something like that doesn't happen with mh, given how many great indie games of all types are made this days.

Personally I think open world is what they always wanted MH to be since the 1st generation. I see what you are talking about regarding the conflict between 5th gen appeal & a more slower paced "expedition" game. For that I can only say let's put our trust in them.

after returning to old gen recently I will say that skills are far too abundant in new gen. it somewhat decreases the importance of individual ones unless its a super powerful skill exclusive to an armour set or seen as a necessity for DPS. this makes the individual weapon goals during hunts completely moot and makes a lot of weapon identity somewhat lost (cough mhrs counters). between the decos and skills it gives the player so many options when the series achieved its identity through its weighty combat and lack of items available i.e. a lack of options

@RenoKyrie

24 күн бұрын

MH Rise Counter is deffinitly super awful Even MHGU every weapon still feel unique In MH Rise it feels like every weapon plays the same Like god dont make Switchaxe and Greatsword have the same mechanic as Chargeblade and Longsword

@LimeyTherapist

22 күн бұрын

@@RenoKyrie I'm actually a bit of a devil's advocate for this one since the weapons that already had counters/guard points/evade attacks got a much more diverse set of said moves in turn. LS got enough counters (and harvest moon to boost it) to play pure counters, CB got easier access to guard points (even in savage axe mode) and a full on perfect guard move. Lance got more rewarding for its guard moves (powering you up and letting you play a watered down version of adept). As a result the fight designers had a lot more liberty as to what kind of crazy bullshit attacks they could add for the monsters (especially in SB) which would've otherwise left the other weapons at a clear disadvantage had they not added moves for those different weapons to have the ability to play that counter playstyle if the player so wishes. TLDR counters for every weapon made actual counter weapons lean into the style much more which also allowed more extreme fights :)

I DO want to hear you ramble on about how you would change the item/consumable system.

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

I appreciate the encouragement. Maybe some day when I'm really out of ideas!

@justthere845

Ай бұрын

@@MikhailKutzow I'd also want to

I think no matter what happens, people will hate wilds. My first game was generations and I remember hearing talk about it being like a baby version of the older games, too easy, the same thing was said about world, and rise, it’ll be said again and again until the end of time. Ultimately I think we just need to wait and see what happens with Wilds, we don’t even know for sure that it’ll be open world, the reveal trailer has told us essentially nothing about what the game will actually be like to play. I agree that open world isn’t the direction that Monster Hunter should go in, I do also think it should take a couple steps backwards towards what 4th Gen was like, but we shouldn’t act like world and rise are bad games. Accessibility is ultimately a good thing, and I do think that the changes they’ve made to the gameplay in response to how the accessibility changes affect the difficulty has ultimately made the games harder. While Generations is still the oldest game I’ve played I’d be lying if I said Sunbreak isn’t the hardest monster hunter has ever been for me. While on some level the old games may technically be more difficult, that challenge feels a lot cheaper, things that don’t feel like they should hit do damage do, inconsistent hit boxes, so on and so forth. But despite all my beef with the pacing of rise and sunbreak I think there’s something to be said that Malzeno is the only actual progression wall I’ve ever faced. And I’ve still only beat it once.

@jcc4543

Ай бұрын

Old games becomes hard cause the reaction is slow af you move slow and act slow.. if those monster from rise/sunbreak is in old monster game you will be obliterated..

No offense to you but I am sick of no one ever discussing specifics when talking about MonHun combat. My biggest gripe with the MonHun community is that you guys never talk about how positioning matters and its nuance. In defense of World's combat compared to the older titles we should first acknowledge that making monsters less predictable by removing the standing turn around was a deliberate move that the devs accounted for by making the hunter move more smoothly too. Because the monsters are less predictable and tend to adjust themselves more, you as a good hunter now have to account for every possibility after every attack which tests your knowledge of a monster's habits/possible attack options even more. In 3rd Gen you knew exactly how much time you had after every Rathian backflip so the answer was the same every time, but in World you don't really have the luxury of having her turn around before doing something, now she can start her triple charge and move away pre-emptively without facing you so a good hunter will think more about staying far enough that the charge doesn't hit you anyway, whilst also accounting for if she turns around and does a triple fireball and being in a good position to keep hitting her in either scenario. Iceborne is easier because of clagger and wallbangs, and World was a little easier because monsters topple more than they ever did in 1st/2nd gen. My point is that Worlds combat is deep and engaging because your added options are a reaction to the monsters new options (4U is the perfect in between of predictability and lack thereof) whereas the older games maybe felt more rewarding because it was a lot easier to get hit as you were slow. I think Wilds needs to tweak the hunter vs monster power scaling a little but the solution isn't to go backwards when both opponents moved like retards.

@zerozone5848

Ай бұрын

fr on GOG!

@davidbowman9917

Ай бұрын

For once someone who hasn’t confused slow combat with “deliberate” or “high commitment” combat.

on the note of endgame power scaling, I feel the issue is kinda there in sunbreak, I feel most of the title update armor sets are pretty equivalent in power (but def stronger than base sunbreak), some ask for super high risk for high reward, but thats a trade off that feels pretty good imo and I rocked a decently wide variety of sets. However, the issue of power scaling was really awful in iceborne, at one point I stopped playing just after alatreon was added and didn't get to make its set, by the time I came back fatalis had come out and its set wiped the floor with alatreons and any other set, so why fight alatreon other than to say you did it?

@Zero0mtk

Ай бұрын

To be honest, even before Fatalis, Alatreon set was a side grade at best, assuming you wanted to play element for whatever reason in that Raw+Blast king meta to begin with. Raging Brach+Kaiser mix was too damn powerful for most blademasters I feel.

I'm going to be honest, I struggled to get through the latter half of this video. I agree on the points of progression feeling more tedious than it used to be and skill bloat, (namely, feeling the need to cram every meta skill onto an armor set regardless of what pieces you're actually using) however the second half of the video felt like it just turned into an unfocused rant about how things appealed to you better in the old games without offering any real alternatives other than "make the game design better" which isn't very helpful. The final section felt especially odd because it isn't really a critique or at least not one that anyone can do anything about. I think pointing out that games take a lot more time to make now, leading to slower iteration while also suggesting they put out nearly all the content at once (slowing down development even further) is strange and feels contradictory. As an aside, I have absolutely no idea what you're suggesting in the final bullet point at 9:00. Are you not just suggesting they completely revert to the old system?

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

I can definitely see what you mean. This video wasn't my cleanest and did at points devolve into exactly what I didn't want it to be. But as for the specific question you had: I mostly meant that the old system of decorations (a decoration takes up slots equal to its size) would work very well with the new system and how decoration sizes are assigned (better skill = bigger decoration). Since it would provide the choice between one point in a very strong skill or several points in more minor skills.

Very good analysis, and an interesting breakdown of both methodologies. Critically, I do not think you're wrong with your concerns about casting too wide a net, as well. The old adage of "you can't please everyone" gets bandied about often with games that are really good but spread themselves too thin, but Capcom's always had a history of doing that. Resident Evil 6 was the most high-profile example of them juggling too many knives, but it's far from the only one, and even in its early days Capcom had a tendency to sometimes go for a broader appeal, only to have it fall flat. Also, mandatorily: "Old man Mikhail yells at Yama Tsukami"

100% agree on LR armor. Was using HH so just focused on Slugger and highest defense so I could power through

I’ve been playing since monster hunter tri and have played every iteration of mh games since even stories 1 and 2. I get what you’re saying about all the changes and different feel but the changes that have been made have brought tons of new hunters in to monster hunter and have given huge opportunities and start up points for newer gen hunters while still allowing us older gen hunters to have things to grind for and things to do. This seems more like a not ready for a game that you hold dearly to change problem than a problem with the games which is completely valid opinion to have. Lastly, alot of hunters who started in older gens end up saying that the next game is gonna be bad and they wish they’d keep this that and the other but end up loving it and seeing that the changes they’ve made still keep the core gameplay albeit with a few changes (which others in the comments have pointed out) I think wilds is gonna end up being great just like most other monster hunters, it’ll have its changes yes but will still end up being the fun monster hunting experience that we’ve gotten in the past. Or maybe we’ll get a generations remake after wilds 🤭.

the issue with the balancing of the armor skills is totally fair. we may all have different views on where the best balance is but the extremes of 5th gen were too far. the discussion is how far it went past the line. more skills and more combinations, for creative freedom is great overall. if a set only has like 3 skills that you are locked in that's less fun or if you are finagling to do all this mixed set work to get just a 4th skill. they can easily refine the system in Wilds, World was the first attempt at the system where the old one was refined for 15 years prior. Rise was a portable title, those go more nuts, experimental, and arcady by design, that tried to follow World's success mid development. the point is that being so harsh with those games for this is a little unfair. give them time to refine the new skill system, we'll see how it works out in Wilds next year. i'm all for random talismans to stay, from Rise and older game, random decorations was way worse. 3 armor pieces is just lazy, it's reducing customization in the wrong way. just play around a bit to find the balance of points/slots per armor piece. it's that simple the post release "breeze through low rank to get to master rank since we just released the expansion" mentality does suck, it cheapens the first encounter with a lot of monsters. the updates would be fine if it wasn't so much of an obsolescence mentality. i could take or leave them, as a whole, the content could just be in the expansion. the idea of a mid way update with all the update content flattened before an expansion isn't bad either. the issue of the endgame grind started in MH4 with the frenzy system, each game after that did its own endgame grind with mixed results. weapons having more than 1 playstyle as additional options is nice, sure some balancing issues happen but that's just game design for you. infinite restock was a mistake. it meant the endgame had to be balanced around that so everything had to 1 or 2 shot you because healing was infinite, meaning you were unkillable otherwise. the old resupply was also tied to subquests. a bonus objective that was optional with extra rewards. when it was finished, you got more supplies, and you could choose to finish the quest early with less rewards as a partial win rather than risking failure on an unlucky run. tldr, his core argument is wrong, there is a happy middle they can reach. he's also judging this too harshly/too soon, this new system will benefit from refinement like the old games had.

I don't really agree with you, but I see what you mean.

i started playing mh at world and i played rise after finishing mhw base story before starting iceborne due to burnout(i didnt play both back to back im just saying the point where i stopped playing world) i played rise finished the expasion and stopped at the anomaly grind(not becuase of the anomaly system due to personal life problems) i went to play world back and the difference is astounding rise low rank being normal hunts without annoying cuscenes and pointless quests like follow a slow cart till a barroth attacks you rise low rank felt like a complete experience i grinded a lot of armor sets since the skills made significant impact and most armor didnt need too much parts to make i experimented multiple weapons and sets due to crafting being very straight foward but in world the low rank is a gutteraly slow grind i didnt build a full set till high rank i didnt try any weapons besides the one i chose in the start due to weapons needing so much materials in high rank the cost of armor sky rockets for exemple a single legiana alpha piece the braces especifically costs 3 TAILS if you dont gamble on quest rewards that dont have a decent chance my biggest grind in rise was prime malzeno i hunted 10 until i got the full set and it was because of the 1% drop my biggest grind so far (im still finishing world a second time) on world is 9 hunts for only 3 pieces of high rank armor

Honestly. Most of the 'issues' in the video feel like at most nitpicks rather then actually issues The devs stated that world was the closest thing they wanted mh to be and saying that pretty much everything new in the new gen bad, old gen good is false. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who's favorites games are 3u and gu. Will say that I do agree with restocking and such but everything else like skill system and especially weapon reworks is very much not an issue. Weapons such has hammer, switch axe, bow and charge blade are good examples of them improving the weapons while keeping their identity intact Admittedly this feels more like a video of 'Old gen was peak and 5th gen in ruining the entire franchise' which eh it really isn't Yes it has its problems here and there but it's done more good then harm

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

That's really not the impression I was trying to give. Especially since I rarely have such harsh opinions as "this new game is ruining the entire franchise." I do think World and Rise are better than a lot of games on the market... Just not better than the old games. As for being nitpicky... Well, yeah, this is trying to focus on a very specific subset of issues. Something I don't do a great job of staying on track with, admittedly... But my point is not that these are the biggest issues in World, just that they're specific conflicts between old and new design.

@smol-man

Ай бұрын

@@MikhailKutzow Well the way you made your statement sounded like that. Another thing is that yes they do conflict between the new and old however just because the old things have been a thing for so long that in future can't be seen as a possible issue or just outdated things. As much as I love the older gen games, a lot of the difficulty did come from it be janky instead of actually difficulty unlike things in world. The changes were to polish up the franchise while adding to it. The weapon changes are the exact same things. Taking the personality of the weapon and enhancing it rather then making it 'generic'. Despite Generations Ultimate and 3u being my favorite games in the entire franchise, I'm willing to say that when it comes to a lot of world and parts of sunbreak are better then the older gens

Honestly what i considered for gen 5 skills could be to reintroduce skills that are ment to subtract other skill levels as a balancing act, similar to what negative skills did. Oh you want a level of handicraft in your set but dont have the deco? Here is a few armor pieces with the skill but this one has -1 level to Evade Window that if you leave negative will cut into your I-frames, etc. Which can help prevent having 20 active skills on an armor like iceborne did.

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

I did think about this. With the skill system World introduced where even 1 point activates a skill, negative skills could be a lot more impactful. Especially in armor sets. Since often negative skills on an armor set in Classic only meant you have one less decoration slot to bring the negative skill up to a harmless -9. So I definitely agree - just didn't want to clog up the video with even more fantasizing.

@bluefiredemon448

Ай бұрын

@@MikhailKutzow would that craete another problem where evryone uses the same build?

@Miniman6347

Ай бұрын

I'd love to see it implemented such that Armors can give negative skills but Decorations can only add positive. That way, it can become a choice of whether you want to use the decoration slot to boost an existing skill, add a new skill, or mitigate a negative skill.

Thinking of Old gen Skills/Decorations. Think of a world with the old skill system but with leveled slots, So a level 2 slot could take a 2 slot deco or a 1 slot deco, but not a 3 slot one. But if you have a level 1 and level 2 slot, you could add a 3 slot deco, Making the max decos on an armour go from 3 slots to 3 to 9 slots based on the size of decoration you use... Onto Quests. Honestly the Quest system of Dos was perfect. You got semi rng quests based on what season it was. Therewas only LR, and HR... An idea I thought up was take Gen's Devient system, with the quest leveling, so leveling quests makes the monster harder increasing the monster's rank, and as you level your rank hunting monsters you unlock more monsters, meaning every new hunter rank you reach you get new monsters. And ya you limit the monster's level with HR requirements, making people to grind alot of monsters. not every monster, but more, Just remove title updates... I don't like the new movesets alot... I've struggled to relearn most of the weapons I've enjoyed in the past, and have resorted to using weapons I've never played before to actually being able to play the games.. To say return to old gen isn't right. Definitely need to find a middleground. Though I much prefer The slower combat of old gen. Again, Dos did comsumables much better, Making you only have 2 box pages, Items capped the same as your inventory. Making you actually get this, Gather, in the hunter gatherer Simulator that the series started as... But seeing as they're leaving that behind, Consumables aren't really needed, we might as well make every quest psudo Arena quests at this point of we just wand dps boss fights. Thinking of the load out systems. GenU had that resuply function added, which I saw no one talk about and subsequently removed in gen 5. What if they bring that back and expand on it. Instead of having the supply box we have this resupply function you level up and pick options between to get different items from a predetermined list. WAY better then base camp Now that we have the technology to make an entire echo system, We should bring back Seasons, Map temperatures, make the game more immersive, not more accessible I've never liked open world games... BoTW, ToTK, Skyrim, Borderlands, Witcher. Haven't really enjoyed any of them... So I'll see if I even enjoy Wilds at all... Still gonna give it a try, But ya. Probably won't play it much and stick to my gen 4. All in all, Return to Dos/4u

Ive been waiting (or looking) for a discussion on how the 5th MH games changed the series and how it clashes with the old gen's design philosophy Very specific discussion topic, yes, but ive just been interested on what gen 5 changed, and weather its good or bad and how the old gen games can help it improve

Got a friend to buy MHW while it’s on sale for the month of May and I can’t wait to restart with them I have everything except Fatalis gear and some Kulve weapons but I’m gonna reset to get that feeling I got playing the first time (hopefully)

Love your content, a great thesis on the development of Monster Hunter core gameplay! The title itself provides the necessary premise of the discussion. Nevertheless, your arguments seem to generalize the "older games" as a singular entity, while we knew that throughout the first - fourth gen, some drastic changes occurred (for better or worse). I see that things like consumables, restocking items, and skill systems are being criticized in 5th gen, but I have to disagree (to a certain degree) about the weapon development. I think it is not the "unfocused gameplay" that bothers me, because every title/gen needs to bring something new to the table. For me, the main problem is the involvement of external features which directly affects the weapon (clutch claw & wirebugs). I see no problems in additional moveset or intended mechanics, I love seeing GS develops into hi-risk hi-reward weapon with focus on charge attacks or LS now becomes a spirit counter-master. I might say, it gives each weapons a characteristic...even gives players a lot of option and style to hunt! I don't really see the appeal of "player can pick up any weapon, as their core mechanics are the same, just different in size and execution", sorry. And again, one or two of your arguments seem counterintuitive, specifically in your personal taste of unique mechanics than any action-RPG while saying World weapons are generic and too complex or daunting to learn. But I do agree, when you say Capcom needs to set the way of how weapons should evolve forward...I don't like the aggressive and counter-focused mechanics in almost all of RiseBreak's weapons.

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

I see where you are coming with regards to how I over-generalize classic here. The focus was mostly on World/Rise in this video, so I didn't want to dive into all of classic, but I do agree that the differences between various classic games are underappreciated. I get the feeling you'll really like my next video, since I'm going to dive a lot into the appeals of different classic MH games. I also really need to get better at articulating my thoughts on combat, huh? My main feeling is that the "core" of 5th gen is a more simple "hit it 'til it dies, don't get hit" style, while the older games had a more unique core that focused a lot more on positioning, timing, and reacting. I do agree that the weapons are more varied in World and Rise. But I'm not sure that's enough. Something to keep in mind as I take the risk of doing more MH videos, I suppose.

@irsandar10

Ай бұрын

@@MikhailKutzow Thank you so much for the discussion, IT IS RARE to see MH content creator exploring their own opinion and make a video about it! Moreover, you keep it as a subjective matters while engaging with other's opinion. I really appreciate that! Lately, I've seen many little discussions goin' around in small MH channel, I believe Wilds will bring us a new era of Monster Hunter community! 🤞🏻🤞🏻

TLDR: I hope Wilds combat is more like World and less like Rise. I hope whatever new mechanic is introduced isn't over centralizing and over powered. I vastly prefer how gathering materials was handled in World, and would be perfectly content if we never went back to how gathering used to be. I strongly disagree on the combat and weapons in world being too complex and unfocused. I wrote a freaking essay, sorry. Continue reading at your own peril. I'm not a super old vet of the series but I did start with MH4U. So I am familiar with how old gen plays. And I disagree with most of this. I will admit that while fun, Rise was definitely a bit too much of a deviation from classic monster hunter, and far too easy. I much prefer world. The only things I would say I would change with world is how over centralizing clutch claw is. I actually completely disagree that the combat is generic. I am familiar with all of the weapons and the additions they made to them in world and Iceborne. I think were fantastic. I completely disagree that the movesets are too complicated. Outside of a very few examples, every move on every weapon gets used to some degree. Especially if you are very good at the game and understand these movesets and monsters like the back of your hand. The only move that really comes to mind that is basically useless is the guard slash on SnS. The only time that move ever gets used is if it gets input by accident if you are trying to back hop out of guard. Learning new weapons in this game is not daunting. It's fun. I am a person that prefers mastering whatever it is that I am playing. I don't like it when I pick up a weapon and I basically have it all figured out after an hour. That's too simple for me. One of the criticisms I had of MH4U back in the day was that I thought that some weapons needed more to them. They were too one note. The new moves just gave more options and deepened the combat. I understand that for some people they either don't want or have the time to learn more complex weapons. Some people just want to pick up a weapon and be able to get through the game with minimal resistance. That ain't me. I learned how to play all the weapons. I have my favorites but I loved the combat so much that I felt I had to learn them all. I think the actual main issue that people have is NOT the weapons themselves. Or even the combat for that matter. It's everything else around the combat. The changes they made to potions, the extra mobility in combat and ability to roll backwards. The changes they made to how skills work. I guarantee you that if everything was kept the same as it was in old MH but the only changes they made was to give the weapons the updated movesets. Nobody would be complaining. (And of course no clutch claw) For the changes to gathering I honestly couldn't care less. Gathering was NEVER a highlight of the game for me. I am far more focused on actually fighting monsters and getting better at the game. Whenever I needed to stop my progress and farm for gathering materials in old MH it wasn't fun. It was boring and it felt like I was wasting my time. I'll farm as long as I have to in games if it's fun. Farming monsters is fun, because the combat is fun. Running around a map pressing a single button at all the gathering nodes then leaving and doing it all over again is not fun. It's tedious. I understand that the fantasy is monster HUNTER. You prepare for a hunt, then you take your farmed materials and use them to hunt the monster. The problem is, that cycle was flawed. It was flawed because the only part of the cycle that is actually fun was fighting the monster. If exploration and gathering materials was a more engaging experience then that loop would be far better. So for world they made the farm at the village much more effective at getting materials, and added even more options for passively getting materials. All for the purpose of reducing the time doing the tedious part of the game. As much as I absolutely love MH4U. It's very hard to go back to it now given how fluid and incredible the weapons feel in world. Another MASSIVE improvement that world made was the animation on the monsters. A lot of the time the way that they raised the difficulty in 4U was by just speeding up the monsters animations. And there were too many attacks that had very little to no start up animation. It looked and felt very janky. I understand the desire to go back to the nostalgia of how old MH was. I played MH4U on launch day and I loved it to death. It was practically the only game I played for months. But let's not pretend that it wasn't flawed. The older games definitely had issues. Some of which got removed or drastically reduced by the many quality of life changed in world. That being said world isn't perfect either. I said at the start that clutch claw was too powerful and over centralizing as a mechanic. I feel the same way about wirebugs in rise.

I think they should open a third serie in parallel to main game and portables to go back to the older system that way everyone will have its own game and no one is left behind

I think the low rank armor rant wasn’t really fruitful here. Keep in mind World was the big entering point for a lot of new Monster Hunter players and it is already butchered with tutorials and a somewhat steep learning curve. Personally and having pulled some new players in as well Low Rank armor can just be fashion only while you just enjoy the game until the grind begins.

What i want is to lessen something like free wallbang or cc like rise and iceborne did (clutch claw, spider, impact mantle STICKY, hell fire skill etc), and please rework armor system fatalis armor is too good, and mhrise armor is too powerful, i remember playing low rank in mhrise and i was genuinely surprised im able to to equip many mid game iceborne attack skills while still in late game low rank, thats fucked up. I think world and pre iceborne is nice minus some armor like raging brachy, safi is op too but at least its risky to use. Also please dont say mhw combat is generic, thats just wrong and sounds very nitpicking. And no nothing is complicated in gen 5, even sunbreak isnt nothing complicated, However they have some serious boner with combination button, i fucking hate them, even in old gen i hate i have to press 2 buttons just to apply my bow coat.

Why when I listen this video I do hear myself? Frankly I think the only things base world(and it's the one that I prefer over all the 5 gen games) improved upon 4U was technical achievements like no separated zones, monster chase between zones, labyrinth locales, better graphics and more polished animations for hunter and monsters. And oh boy it feels good to have those technical improvements. But i prefer the design philosophy of older gens, especially MH3Tri. Biggest problems with MH3Tri is that the roaster is too small, separated zones and no topographic ground combat compared to futures titles. If I'm being honest even if open world is not my cup of tea i think it is the ideal style of game for what is monster hunter. But they have to do it well, and that's a bit more difficult. However, I don't think monster hunter should rely on an mount, even in an open world game.

Calling MHW combat "generic" is legitimately insane. There is no other game with combat like MHW and if you made the combat more simple like you said then it would become MORE generic. If you don't like it that's fine, but I don't think you know what "generic" means. Also just because a game is changing doesn't mean it's "mainstream" MHW is undoubtedly still targeting a niche and not something anyone can get into. Pretty much every new player who plays MHW loves it, only classic players who had false expectations dislike it. It's just a different niche to what you like, thinking MHW is accessible for general audiences is completely out of touch. General audiences think that souls games are too hard and need easy mode, MHW is harder than them. Also, I personally think Elden Ring is not a good example of an open world. The game is clearly designed with areas increasing in difficulty so if you go to areas in the "wrong" order the balance is completely thrown out the window. Exploring lots gives you a ton of souls so you end up overpowered so exploration and challenging combat are at odds with each other. Also most dungeons give you useless items because "I'm playing a str build, a katana is literally useless" and the crafting system wasn't really important at all and basically no one used it. BotW/TotK are great open world games because every single system was designed from the ground up to work in an open world context. In terms of open world, I think MH would work best like shadow of the colossus, where the open world is mostly there to give a sense of scale to the world.

The biggest problem that 5th gen introduced is a bloated combat system, especially with Rise/Sunbreak. If played "optimally", the hunter is ludicrously overpowered compared to anything seen in GU or 4U. With this change, monster health was bloated to compensate, but all that did was further encourage excessive skill bloat and abusing dps skills. What is the point in damage numbers and weapon scaling when every build is focused on dps and your Greatsword TCS does 15,000 damage. Wilds needs to return to a more balanced relationship between Hunter and Monster, where it doesn’t feel like the hunter is the primary focus of gameplay. You're supposed to be fighting monsters, not glorified punching bags

@NihongoWakannai

Ай бұрын

This is something I can agree with. Fights can start to feel like a slog with how long they take just because monsters were given ludicrous health pools. I love the more complex weapon movesets because I like being able to really master them. I just think the way monsters are designed should be changed to compensate for that so we don't end up feeling like we're just wailing on a punching bag for 30 minutes. Reducing the health pool but making the hunters be more patient and wait for the right openings might be good.

@JMoore-vo7ii

Ай бұрын

@@NihongoWakannai well said. There needs to be a balance. If both the monster and hunter are capable of doing insane shit, it needs to be leveled out. Sunbreak's endgame has the potential to be incredible, but has just as much potential to be frustrating or boring

@chewbacachunks8644

Ай бұрын

​@@NihongoWakannai It feels like there is a big disconnect going on here. I'm not saying that you are bad. But 30 minutes? If any monster in world or iceborne is taking you 30 minutes something is wrong here. I think there is a factor that also needs to be taken into account. That people really don't like to acknowledge but it is important. And that is player skill level. No monster in this game took me that long. The closest I got to that was my first kill of Fatalis. But now after I learned his fight I can solo him in like 15 minutes. As for the regular monsters most take me like 5 to 8 minutes. 30 minutes to kill something just seems more like a (I can't believe I am saying this) "skill issue." It's a hard pill to swallow, but player skill level is a very valid thing to consider.

@NihongoWakannai

Ай бұрын

@@chewbacachunks8644 honestly, this attitude is part of the problem with the monster hunter community. You're only seeing the game from the perspective of a highly experienced player with end game gear. Saying "skill issue" is pointless. Are player supposed to drink a magic potion and suddenly become skilled, know all the monster patterns and have good gear? When you're playing the game for the first time with gear that isn't BiS then some fights become a slow boring slog. Players shouldn't have to put 400 hours into the game before they get to the most fun part, they should be able to enjoy the whole learning process. I'm not bad at games either, I beat sekiro charmless demon bell (and did it fairly easily) before I got into MHW and some of the fights still felt like a slog. For people who aren't used to difficult action games it would be WAY worse. The fact that even with the best gear and hundreds or thousands of hours of experience fights still can take 10 minutes is VERY long. Disregarding the experience of 99.9% of the playerbase just because it isn't a problem for you and saying "skill issue" is completely out of touch. These are videogames not jobs, you shouldn't need hundreds of hours of training before it's fun.

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

Well said. I do feel like there's a bit of an "arms race" between the Hunters and Monsters in the design of modern Monster Hunter. Hopefully they do find that balance eventually. It's probably the biggest opportunity Wilds has: To be the game that tightens things down after World's drastic changes.

Old monster hunter were very clunky like when you use lance the reaction when you counter is slow af, you need to paint the monster which sucks,I like the world finding the monster, I don't like the animation when you drink potions just stand and pose wtf. for rise I hate spiribirds you need to get it first which scks, for word I hate you need to clutch claw the monster to put more damage or to crit. Also please don't make the gems/deco rng just make them instead I hate that on world for 600 hours I just got 1 attack 2 :/

When it comes to Gen 5 weapons being overly complicated I’d mostly disagree, but honestly S&S is a bloated nightmare of a weapon and it needs to do less things.

@chewbacachunks8644

Ай бұрын

I disagree that SnS is bloated. The only thing I would change about it in Iceborne is getting rid of guard slash. That is the most useless move in the whole game, and only ever gets input on accident when you try to backhop from guard. SnS is my main weapon and I speedrun with it. The fact that it can do so many things is what makes it unique.

Rise to me deffinitly has the most unfocused gameplay Since everyone ended up playing THE EXACT same Counter Spamming gameplay Which even Iceborne didnt do unless you are Tackle GS(I hate this thing) spamer and simply playing LS, CB, or the 2 Lances but those 4 are JUSTIFIED especially Lances just keep Counters for them for crying out loud Even content wise GU did better at what it does, thats saying a lot since DEVIANT QUEST WAS BAD, somehow both Rampage and Anomaly Quest are just pathetic I hate World/Iceborne aswell(Especially Tenderizing), but somehow Rise/Sunbreak is where majority of my 5th Gen hate spawns

@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079

Ай бұрын

Wait gl has counters????

@Mekudan

Ай бұрын

@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 Gunlance only has counters in Rise

@NihongoWakannai

Ай бұрын

Rise is the arcadey spinoff of world. It's them going in a more experimental direction and I think it was interesting but there are definitely issues with how it ended up being and how absolutely overloaded some of the weapons like LS were. I also agree the chore of having to constantlt clutch claw monsters sucks. Hopefully they learn from both those games and improve for wilds.

@RenoKyrie

Ай бұрын

​​@@NihongoWakannaiI will say as much i hate base Rise LS Sunbreak somehow makes me hate other weapons more I think Strongarm Greatsword breaks the whole point of Greatsword(The funny Combo Greatsword on the other hand is great, they should keep that) Im a Switchaxe Main and even i feel OFFENDED with what they did to ruin it in Rise and tried to Bandaid the problem of Phial build up nerf and soo many other wrong things with Rise Swaxe with Elemental Burst Counter Im sorry, i hate Iceborne, but that game had the BEST Switchaxe, so why the f^#k did they throw it to the trash can???

@theinternetsightseer2935

Ай бұрын

God forbid they make a one time fun focused side game.

I hate gen 5

I think no matter what happens, people will hate wilds. My first game was generations and I remember hearing talk about it being like a baby version of the older games, too easy, the same thing was said about world, and rise, it’ll be said again and again until the end of time. Ultimately I think we just need to wait and see what happens with Wilds, we don’t even know for sure that it’ll be open world, the reveal trailer has told us essentially nothing about what the game will actually be like to play. I agree that open world isn’t the direction that Monster Hunter should go in, I do also think it should take a couple steps backwards towards what 4th Gen was like, but we shouldn’t act like world and rise are bad games. Accessibility is ultimately a good thing, and I do think that the changes they’ve made to the gameplay in response to how the accessibility changes affect the difficulty has ultimately made the games harder. While Generations is still the oldest game I’ve played I’d be lying if I said Sunbreak isn’t the hardest monster hunter has ever been for me. While on some level the old games may technically be more difficult, that challenge feels a lot cheaper, things that don’t feel like they should hit do damage do, inconsistent hit boxes, so on and so forth. But despite all my beef with the pacing of rise and sunbreak I think there’s something to be said that Malzeno is the only actual progression wall I’ve ever faced. And I’ve still only beat it once.

@NihongoWakannai

Ай бұрын

Part of the problem with games like this is that they attract people who like the challenge of learning a game. But once you've become good at one of the games you can't get that same experience from a new game. So "this game is too easy and for babies" is really "I'm too skilled and experienced and so I'm not getting the challenge I want" Like LR in MHW is a really good way of challenging new players without overwhelming them. But the guy in the video thinks it's a "slog" because he's experienced and can't understand that LR is a tutorial for new players. I saw this happen with every new dark souls release too. "Dark souls is too easy" the demon souls player said "dark souls 2 is too casual" the dark souls players said "dark souls 3 is so easy" the dark souls 2 players said. You can never return to the experience of playing a game like this for the first time. That's why you get to the end game where the real challenge is. You can't expect the game to be hard for a veteran from the start unless you want the studio to go bankrupt. It NEEDS onboarding for new players.

@MikhailKutzow

Ай бұрын

I get that it's a tutorial for new players. I even say as much in the video, that they should lean into it being the tutorial. My problem is that it is a tutorial that lasts way too long, renders the "real game" in High Rank rather repetitive, and that low rank armor is so short on skill points that it doesn't feel rewarding to farm for. I still find low rank to be fun to play in older games. It is a fairly complete experience because it was designed to be the entire offline game. I'm fine with them changing how it works in the new games - but I think the execution stumbled.

@NihongoWakannai

Ай бұрын

@@MikhailKutzow the tutorial is long because these games are very hard and complex. I'm a very experienced action game player and even I took quite a while to get the hang of monster hunter. For someone who doesn't have hundreds/thousands of hours in action games already it makes sense to have a long tutorial section for such a difficult game. Especially with budgets rising, they need onboarding for new players to grow the fanbase. It's just that they need a way to not make experienced players feel bored by being forced into such a long tutorial. Have a setting at the start of the game like "yeah I know what I'm doing, throw me into the deep end" It's the same with decorations and stuff. I'm glad they're not in LR because there were already so many different systems being introduced that decorations would have made it feel even more overwhelming. Investigations, deliveries, camp creation, food buffs, food freshness, item collection, stamina reduction, crafting, item loadouts, armor skills, weapon trees, damage types, different parts from breaking each section, part hardness, many different weapons with unique combos, ammunition, tracking, research points, argosy, tailraiders, expedition quests, melding, farming, capturing, clutch claw, sharpness, blights, and anything else I missed. Almost all of this stuff is unique to monster hunter, or MH implements it in a unique way. Even for a series with some shared DNA like souls games there's a LOT of new stuff to learn when getting into MHW. The game already overloads new players with so much info I wish it introduced things slower rather than faster if anything. I can 100% understand why people who aren't as experienced with games as me get immediately overwhelmed and turned off MH. It's not an either/or for appealing to new players and veterans. They should be finding ways to appeal to both if the series is going to survive. There needs to be a smooth pipeline to turn people from noobs into passionate veterans.