My grandfather built the home that I live in in 1951. He was a marine engineer and outfitted the house with many redundant systems. I remember as a kid he would go to the basement every morning and fill the fire box with an enormous amount of wood, the only feeding of the day. There are tons of copper coils in this firebox that feed to a 100 gallon tank that runs through homemade radiators inside the walls, powers the elevator, and ends in the house hot water tank. This is one amongst many complex systems. Anyhow, my stepfather lost the instructions shortly after he passed. When I moved in, I felt fairly confident that I understood the system and felt comfortable using it. All was fine for a few months, and then one day I loaded the fire box up with a bunch of cedar and pine. This burned so hot that the steam was back driven. The pressure release valve (sourced from a huge ship) failed and the hot water and steam back fed the whole system. I didn't know any of this was happening, we were just watching TV one evening and heard the loudest explosion I've ever heard. I thought it was from the highway a half mile away. It turned out that the huge stainless fire box fired its door across the house with enormous force. There were huge soot stains everywhere like a cartoon explosion. I have not run that system since, gave me an enormous amount of respect for steam.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Great story - thanks : - )

@briannem.6787

2 жыл бұрын

Quite an interesting system!

@ridzwananuar5919

2 жыл бұрын

For industrial use the operators and engineers have to acquire license for that? Yeah same..i respect their role in the mill

@ingleberthumperdink9455

2 жыл бұрын

You’re a fool for thinking you knew what you were doing when you didn’t know what you were doing. And something quite dangerous had to happen for you to first respect steam?

@theshirehighlander7292

Жыл бұрын

@@ingleberthumperdink9455 He just wasn't aware of the strength of steam before that incident.

more coils! lots of flash boiler designs have smaller diameter tube, these are stronger/safer because the surface area on the inside is smaller, and because of that the water gets heated more efficiently and quickly, longer tube means you have the same boiler volume. when bending your pipe, fill them with water and then freeze them, this will mean the pipe is much less likely to kink as it's filled with noncompressible material (which is much easier to get out than sand!). you could also run the tube around the outside of the firebox before it goes in, this will preheat the steam and make more room for more coils! (and a disclaimer, i don't really know what i'm talking about, but this is what i have seen said by people who do!)

@EFCasual

2 жыл бұрын

The preheater as blanket is a classic steam power method. Great for your battlecruiser or home heater.

@bobboy61

2 жыл бұрын

As another person who doesn't really know what I'm talking about, is it better to feed water in the bottom or the top? I'd think the bottom, because heat rises and cold sinks, so if you feed water in the bottom it'll warm, and just get hotter and hotter on the way up until out it goes. Maybe his wet steam is because cold water was going down?

@briannem.6787

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobboy61 But then, the steam is exiting at the least cold area (more heat near the fire). It's like the gills of fish, the counterflow allows more oxygen/more heat

@excitedbox5705

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobboy61 you want to feed in the top because the water sucks heat out of the exhausted air. The most heat is at the bottom.

@donaldbiggs1730

Жыл бұрын

Excellent post. One minor correction, liquid water is not compressible, however water as ice is compressible. Still filling with water and freezing is the way I would go. It is the way many musical instruments (trombones coronets trumpets) have their pipes bent in production.

This channel is basically the "Primitive Technology" and "HowToMakeEverything" for the Victorian Age. Love it.

Nothing like a you tube video to bring out all the "experts" !

Loved how the donkey laughed as the coils wouldn't fit!

It was a really long day here. First I shoveled snow all morning, half by hand and half with the snowblower and then I had to cook a big meal for some friends who were coming over and in the course of that I thought I lost the ring my husband gave me 3 years ago, and after a complete panic attack, I found it in the globe that I use when I fill the wood box (so yes, I did that too) and then we finally had a lovely dinner after which I could only stretch out and watch something and - lo! - another engineering marvel! Now I'm all relaxed and ready to go to sleep. PS the donkey is indeed very loud

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

I'm flattered that you squeezed me into your busy day : - )

Kink solution? Fill coil with water and clamp solder ends before bending. Bend slowly and carefully. Should not crimp if filled all the way with water.

Sweet new video!

That’s a lovely heat exchanger, Tim. Since the system isn’t pressurized you’re not likely to generate much superheat. The steam won’t get above 212 F (100 C) until all the water is converted to steam. So I think you key to getting more complete conversion is increasing the temperature difference between the water and the flue gas. The max water (steam) temp is likely to only be 212F. So concentrate on heat generation. And the faster and more turbulently that hot flue gas flows up the flue the more heat will transfer to the copper tubing. If manageable use a smaller diameter copper tube to provide more surface area for heat transfer. Design/arrange your coils so all surfaces have equal opportunity for contact with flue gas. I also suggest you measure temperature at the inlet and outlet points of both the flue gas and water/steam. You’ll be able to use the temperature differences to monitor performance and efficiency. Love your videos. You and Sandra have such interesting lives. Best of luck to you.

@gudnuf2060

2 жыл бұрын

He should also consider reducing the flow rate. That ensures all water has sufficient residence time to convert to steam.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you both - yes, that makes sense

@James_Rivett

2 жыл бұрын

There was a time during the video that the outlet was closed slightly to induce pressure. If the surface area of the heating coils is sufficient, then system could in theory pressurise even with the tap left open, and judging by the fact that the intention was to use a combined pressure and temperature gauge, pressurisation was expected. The boiling point of water is not a constant, hence I suggest that what you have said is not quite correct (whilst not being a untrue), as as the pressure increases, so does the boiling point of water. Even on a low pressure boiler with a working pressure of just 50psi, the boiling point of water has increased to almost 140 degrees C, meaning the water and steam has to be in at this temperature to make steam. The boiling point of water is also effected by altitude, with the higher you are the lower the air pressure, the lower the boiling point of water. The Given boiling point of water being 100 degrees c is only at 0 altitude (sea level) If the water feed system is off the water main, then the pressure of the boiler can achieve equal pressure to the water supplied, and if a floating washer type valve (old fashioned tap washer type stop cock) or non return valve is used on the water side, then the pressure of the boiler can surpass this, but with undesirable side effects, being that the system will boil dry with a lack of feed water until the pressure in the system has dropped to below that of the supply. I don't know the actual mains water pressure (assuming the hose pipe was fed by mains water), but a quick search on Google suggests its between 25 and 45psi in Ireland. In the UK its all over the place, despite officially being between 1 and 2 bar. Where I live the pressure is around 30psi, but I've been on farms where the pressure has been well over 120psi , and my friends house is operating at a mains water pressure of 80psi, I've also been to places where this is very little water pressure. The super heater would still dry the steam out further and prevent condensation, and once dry would increase the temperature of the steam, even at atmospheric pressure, with any water finding itself carried into the Superheater, being turned into steam. This is why it is dangerous to "prime" on a superheated railway locomotive due to excessive water level in the boiler, as the water is flashed into steam, coursing a uncontrollable increase in pressure trapped in the superheater, and normally leads to a uncontrolled wheel slip until all the water has boiled into steam, even if the regulator has been able to be shut preventing further feed into the circuit. This was what happened to Blue Peter on Durham oviduct in 1994, in her case, water carried over into the superheater, flashed to steam, and the pressure increased to that above the boiler pressure, forced the double beat regulator wide open, which continued to feed the super heater with water to turn into steam (in effect the super heater circuit became a flash boiler), not that this is a problem on a stationary boiler with screw or ball valve.

@thekodanator

2 жыл бұрын

Might it make a difference to put the inlet at the bottom of the coil? It seems as though the water is able to fall through the chimney before absorbing heat. If it were to enter from the bottom, gravity will help the liquid water stay in the coil longer.

@ShashankB94

9 ай бұрын

@@thekodanatorI was thinking all this time..why is the outlet of the steam on the bottom when it literally rises?lol

Great ingenuity on reusing so many things to make the final project. This is why our ancestors didn't throw metal scrap away; they always had to make or repair things for very little cost when possible.

Can you build a stove that has an air exchanger, water heater and steam generator built into one unit? Off grid tech of the future.

I don't know much about steam but I have built a few wort chillers in my day for my self and my friends. If you fill the pipe with something non-compressible, like water or sand, then cap the ends with fittings, you can bend it much easier without it kinking.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm definitely cheering you on!

One thing to add. I built a massive trash burn barrel kinda the same way some years ago. Over time the door warped. One thing one can do is add some flat strap and weld them so that the door has a flange type thing. Stitch weld them on the 3 sides. Miter cut the corners so that you can finish cutting the door open on the open side then stitch weld the last piece in. You can add a strap of metal at the hinge side though it would need to be flush with the cut. This should help with warping. Had I know this at the time I made my burn barrel it would have lasted far longer and looked better.

@apcolleen

2 жыл бұрын

They do make fire door gaskets. I need to get some for my smoker.

Can I suggest 3 ways to help form the copper tube. 1 fill with sand 2 fill with salt 3 fill with water and freeze All these methods stop the tube from kinking. The first 2 are fairly difficult because filling a tube that long may be difficult. The last one is used for making brass wind instruments and fairly easy to do and this time of the year it’s easy to freeze it and once the tube is formed a little heat will melt and drain the tube. I suggest a heating system from that boiler just run the water faster. Sorry I have no Idea about flash boilers but I’m here to learn and advise as and where I can.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your suggestions - I'll experiment..

@apcolleen

2 жыл бұрын

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Look up the How Its Made episode on Trombones lol its got what you need.

@chox2001

2 жыл бұрын

@@apcolleen that’s where I saw the freezing method

If you want dry steam, super heated steam, you run the wet steam pipe through the furnace, lookup super heated steam, good luck, Martin

GENIUS!

got yourself a nice free hot water heater should you need one - with the copper wound tightly outside the pipe, cold water in the bottom and hot water out the top into a water tank above if you want gravity fed. ( other patrons of this idea say you have to insulate the pipe as well ) handy for a cold shed and a sink

I always anneal my copper pipe when doing bends like this, even when new, as copper age hardens and this is when you get the kinks forming. This is simply done by heating red hot then quenching in water. It also helps to prevent to stop cracking over time. IF you ever decide to use a boiler seriously, please do not use any pipe that has kinked. It will crack where the kink has developed very quickly and your boiler will fail. I feel you have you coils too close together, they should also be evenly spaced out all the way down. If you wish to dry the steam, you can "super heat it" by passing it back through the fire. This is what they do on most railway locomotives. Sentinel Steam wagons used a water tube boiler which is basically what a flash steam boiler is (the water is in tubes and the fire passed around it, where a locomotive type boiler is a fire tube boiler where the fire passes through tubes within the water), with super heater coils in the top of the fire space. This dramatically improved their performance compared to their earlier counterparts, with all the steam now reaching the cylinders being steam. With railway locomotives the same lesson was learnt, with the higher the square area of superheating, the less coal and water were used. Not only does superheating dry the steam out by increasing the temperature, any water that finds its self "carried over" with the steam will be flashed into steam itself. With your system this would improve things a lot. I would also consider coiling tubes around the inside of the firebox wrapper to make use of the heat better. This is where you true flash boiler would have its heating elements, whilst the super heater would be where you have you boiler coils. The other way to "dry" your steam more would be to reduce the water flow slightly. As well as using steam for powering engines, you can use it for sterilization, not only of objects and bottles, etc, but also of soil in glass houses, and use it for heating.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Yes - that all makes sense - thanks

Tim, to manufacture a coil from soft copper pipe you should fill it with water and then it won’t kink. Clamp it on one end and wind it tightly around a pipe of the desired diameter.. presto! I wish I had a workshop like yours and the time to potter like you do! The railroad is a real inspiration!

I the old days, when i was building RC-Boats, i filled copper pipes with sand to prevent kinking while bending them around the motor.

@quintrankid8045

2 жыл бұрын

I've heard about this too. But I'm curious as to how to get the sand out afterward and I wonder if this might be more difficult with Tim's design? Edit: I saw another comment here that suggests filling with salt instead of sand. Salt would be a lot easier to remove.

Next time you try to coil copper pipe. Fill it with water and put it in a deep freezer. The ice inside will keep it from pinching while coiling it. Hope that helps

I've done quite a bit of research on steam power for my side job, and have a few notes from the designs I've looked at. Rather than coiled copper pipe for your heat exchange, you might consider a series of straight copper pipes that then loop back and connect at the ends. This would of course work better with a horizontal configuration, but you could still use the existing firebox and just turn the chimney 90 degrees to achieve that. And the smaller and more numerous the pipes, the more surface area you create for the water to pick up more heat. Many flash boilers do use a recirculating water supply, taking at least part of the steam that has done its work and turned back to water and returning it to the reservoir tank. This will eventually pre-heat the water in the reservoir, allowing it to get even hotter as it goes through the heat exchange and giving you better steam. The drawback to this is that you do then have to keep an eye on the reservoir tank, as it can build up pressure if the water gets too hot, and needs to have a safety valve if it does end up creating steam in the tank. If you don't want to worry about re-circulation but still want to try and pre-heat the water, you could also just make a saddle tank that sits on top of your chimney for the water reservoir. This way the water in the reservoir collects at least some of the heat that isn't completely collected by the water in the boiler coil. Again, this would be easiest to do with the chimney turned sideways. Finally, if you can manage to get steam that isn't still wet once it's been used for work, you might consider letting the waste steam that you're just going to expel be released through the chimney rather than just letting it out into the open anywhere. In addition to adding any left over heat you can from that steam back into the system, running steam through the chimney regularly helps to clean it and cuts down on the build up of creosote on the sides and the heat exchange, particularly useful with a wood fired boiler.

@shanek6582

2 жыл бұрын

If you did a closed system like you mentioned, I’m assuming it would lose a little steam here and there, would you need a water pump that has enough psi to overcome the psi in the tube?

@kasbakgaming

2 жыл бұрын

@@shanek6582 Mostly that will depend on how the engine is configured. If it's configured so that the steam that's used to do work is above the tank, then anything that has condensed back into water can simply drip into the tank without a pump needed. If it's below the tank, then yes, you would either need a separate pump to move that condensed water back up or to add a pumping action to the line as part of the cycle for whatever it is you're actually using the steam for.

Perhaps two things I would consider. One is heat proof cladding around the chimney. And the second if to pass the steam pipe back through the fire before it exits as a super heater.

Your voice sounds like it's from a old early 2000s education film :_)

I will throw suggestion hat in. If you first have a coil of copper pipe wrapped around the outside of the smoke stack. Then wrapped in rock wool finished off with a "tin" pipe to protect everything. Good luck with plan B steam machine. 👍🥳

Can not wait for the finished product

In my power generation days I used to drive a flash steam generator which drove a 500 MW turbine. The steam feed pump output to complete the cycle was rated at 16MW, this beast going flat chat used to use 240 tons of coal an hour Producing 3000 PSI of steam pressure. More complicated than your flash steam generator but the principal is the same, water in steam out

Well that was sure interesting with almost instant hot water. Stay safe up your way bro.

Love the donkey sounds! Cute little fella.

Consider insulating the chimney/heat-exchanger with perlite, fire cement, or even just clay rich mud. Any heat radiated from the chimney is heat lost from making steam. Take a look at rocket stoves if you haven't heard of them: very efficient stoves with heavily insulated firebox and chimney.

You can make a coffee pot with that, a coffee pot is a train that has that boiler but bigger, make that with it and also search it up.👍

I work with copper like this a lot over the years. The best way to wind this up is to carefully roll it out. Then make a hand crank jig. A piece of pipe the size you need the coils to be then some sort of crank for a 2nd person, Attach a hold down point much like in the video. Then crank away. Now keep in mind that the coil size that you want and the size tube you use are going to change. Always go smaller for the spring back. As your coil the copper it will somewhat work harden yet it requires some effort to keep it to size due to it being soft copper. Though it does look like you did a good job. Once you get it fully wrapped the last bit of pipe at the end fix it to some thing strong and then you can try and tighten the coil as much as you can. Tapping the soft copper with a bit of wood will help to harden the copper. Just not super hard. You do not want to damage the tube or flatten it. You just want to tap it enough that it it will remain hard. I am not sure how to explain work hardening copper. Yet the taps will be almost enough to no let it spring back a huge amount. You can get the hang of it on the first 5 or 6 turns and releasing the crank. Either way someone might use this.

@kameljoe21

2 жыл бұрын

BTW people make things like this for out door hot tubs. They can adjust the flow of water to be cooler or hotter. For the tub you just need to have an over flow to drain out the excess water. You hook up a hose and some people use old claw foot tubs with over flows on them to drain out the excess water. You can set up a number of tubs in an arrangement so that everyone has their own tub. I intend on building another one for my new place. This way we can have hot tubs and not have to worry about them freezing in the winter. Just start a fire and start filling.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this, William - any ideas for how to join lengths? Solder would melt, I assume, and I can't get compression fittings for anything smaller

@silverchingi

2 жыл бұрын

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 As you say, soft solder and even hard solder (cupro) wouldn't be suitable for what you want to do. How about good old brazing with brass rods? These joints would surely hold up . . . Great video, as usual!

@kameljoe21

2 жыл бұрын

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Yes brazing is the only way to go. If you have an oxy acet torch that is the way to go. It does take a bit of heat and it will hold up to high temps. I did some looking around at some photos of boiler domestic hot water copper loops. It might be worth the look at some photos. The one that stood out to me is where they just took the copper and wrapped it around a rod and then twisted the tube around it. This way you have a in and out at the same end. Have a look at it. As for other comments about filling with sand or water or pressure water. Those might be options yet I have never used those methods. Though they indeed might work very well.

@apcolleen

2 жыл бұрын

@@kameljoe21 I have an insulated 100 gallon stock tank. Im 230lbs so I only need about 80 gallons so I can soak up to my chin lol

Try filling you copper tubing with sand before you bend it. Then clean it afterward. Thanks for the video

I knew you couldn't keep your hands off of the steam engine :-D For real steam loco engines, there is a steam dome which takes care of separating water and steam.

Many people are saying feed water in through the bottom of the coil, this might be a solution if you are intent on using a small fire. If you have enough heat, feeding water in through the top is the best (and as proof, look up any number of commercially produced steam generators as used in the good old days). The water turns to steam as moves down the coils, and the hottest coils are right above the fire so you get the driest steam - if your fire is hot enough!

A note about the boiler, perhaps space the tube coils out a bit more evenly? Coming from the perspective of a physicist I would imagine the greater surface area exposed to that much more consistent air (and more importantly heat) flow should help greatly with the heating. It may also be worth looking into some form of insulation. Also, considering various brass musical instruments have special valves to drain spit from an instrument, perhaps it's worth investigating a similar setup with two output points, one for the water and one for the steam, that use their respective densities to filter out one from the other? Similar to how a trompe separates its water flow from its airflow.

@robinforrest7680

2 жыл бұрын

Yep If you’re planning some sort of reciprocating piston engine you’ll need to get the water out of the mix otherwise you’ll get priming, which is basically when your piston finds itself trying to compress incompressible water and goes bang. This is why locomotives have drain cocks on the cylinders which are opened when stationary because when the loco is stationary water builds up in the cylinders as they cool. Once the engine is underway again and the water has been ejected during the first piston strokes the fireman closes the drain cocks until the next stop.

Fill your copper tubing with sand before attempting to wind it up into a coil. The sand will give the tubing support and prevent it from collapsing or kinking.

from what i see the BEST way to fix this is to get some ceramic wool and wrap the full thing in it basically trapping all the heat into the container with the only way the heat can escape is through the chimney which will increase the efficiency of your boiler by roughly 70%

Its funny that this is the video that shows on my feed because I have been doing a lot of research on steam engines and boilers. Especially locomotive engine, the boiler release the steam through tubes that run back through the boiler setup and "super heats" the steam. My suggestion is running a couple more runs of copper straight up and down the chimney to super heat the steam and add pressure to the system.

the most cool thing is how steam is normaly use for the majority of electricity power stations, nuclear, coal, gas all are use for steam making

it is best to put the copper tubes around a tube that you put in or sooner after that let it go along the outside of the tube or an intermediate tube over it where the moisture falls away it is also testing you will get there on . then later connect to a motor that you change something and you then have rotational movement well wort great to see all that

A steam engine for the railway would be cool

Mono tube boilers ate used in a lot of old design steam cars. Mostly in a pancake shape. This copper in the chimney tube is new to me.

*@Way Out West - Workshop Stuff* *6:00** Solution: fill the copper tube with fine sand* (or similar powder substitute) before bending, the sand will push back & the pipe will remain round. (works best for shorter lengths of tube, as it's easier to fill or remove the sand). For a longer pipe. maybe you could like seal one end & put in pressurized air or water in the other end through some custom connection? (easier to empty later)

I used to work in Boeings tube bending shop they would ocassionally talk about how to make pipe bend at home. One method is to fill the copper pipe with either sand or cooled grease. This keeps the pipe from collapsing and can be removed later. (Both take end caps on the piping.)

Fill the copper tube up with sand while bending it and no more kinks. :-) Somebody probably already said that....Neat system!

I have an idea for the wet steam problem Before the steam gos to the outlet Get a pipe line to coil around the walls of the firebox

Honestly, this is one of the best channels on KZread atm.

Wecome to the wonderful world of flash steam boilers, or more correctly mono-tube steam generators, you are treading a path many have started out on, but few have succeeded on, a path littered with such phrases as, " how hard can it be" " you would have thought " and " I didn't think that would happen" truly, the devil is in the detail. I will follow your progress with interest, and don't forget as Scotty said in a episode of Star Trek, " you canny change the laws of Physics Jim " good wishes and good luck.

Drill a few holes is the smokestack. It will increase heat and efficiency. By adding oxygen to the smoke gases, they will ignite too.

Tim, instead of using coils fill the chimney with lengths of pipe connected together with U bends at the ends. you could get a lot more pipe in there that way.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, thanks, but I'd be worried that the solder would fail - any thoughts?

@ruongluesteve

2 жыл бұрын

​@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Not sure about that , Is the steam in the tubes going to be under pressure ? There are solders that have a melting point of over 300 degrees C. Steam at 100 PSI would be at 170 degrees. If not under pressure then silver solder is good to 140 degrees. But although I have an engineering qualification it isn't in anything to do with steam so be careful!!

@silverchingi

2 жыл бұрын

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 the melting point of brass is 927 °C. Brazing is the only way to go, but takes a bit of practice . . .

This is basically a tankless water heater. If the water flows from the top down and gets some secondary heat near the top (like lighting the exaust on fire) you might be able to achieve superheating.

Tim, fill the tube with water first then cap the ends, the incompressability of the water will mitigate kinking. Semper Fi, from Pennsylvania

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds good - I'll experiment

This reminds me. I used to have a flash steam generator in my kitchen. Don't drink coffee much so I don't have a coffee maker any more.

Hello Tim, maybe you could build a superheater, to convert the wet steam to dry steam (routing the steam through the firebox, so it would be reheated by the fire befor you use it.

I have no idea if this is true for your part of the world, but it is a great trick for getting cheap copper tubing. As you know, copper prices change daily / weekly and are rather high right now. A number of years ago I needed 20 ft or so for an oil manifold project. At Home Depot and similar big box stores, you can often find a refrigerator water line kit. These are little DIY kits for people adding a water dispensing refrigerator to their homes. It's just a crappy valve, a few fittings, and 30 ft of soft copper. These kits are often about 1/4 of the price of the same amount of copper by itself in the bulk department. For whatever reason, the prices on these kits basically never changes. There have been times where the value of copper scrap was high enough to pay for the kit. I restore a lot of older machinery that often needs copper oil lines, this has been a great resource to me.

I've heard you can put sand in pipes when bending them to prevent them from kinking, but getting sand in all that length of copper tubing might be a bit cumbersome

You might look up “ counter current exchange”. This is a concept that may be germane To extracting more heat from the chimney. Very nice project Tim. Frsnk

The donkey has a few sarcastic noises too.

Next time you try coiling copper tubing. Fill the copper pipe with hot pitch. Let cool. Then coil as tight as you'd like. It won't kink. You can also fill the coil pipe with water. Place in large freezer. Then coil. Point being you need something pushed my back against the inside. God bless.

I don't have a clue what I'm talking about here, but it was a great experiment to watch. Cheers Tim :)

I have an idea on how to correct the downside of this boiler type, you take this flash boiler, and have the end of the pipe were the steam is supposed to come out go into another tank which would contain the steam and have a hole you can open at the bottom to let water out of this container and then loop around to the start of the pipe, this way it would prevent water building up in there when the fire isn't hot enough, then you would have steam which you can use to power whatever you like with it, something else you can do is when the steam is used, you can run it back to the start so you recycle the water, essentially this means you would have a fireless locomotive with an attachment added on to it which is in this case is the flash boiler

I think you may have more success with a smaller tube, the velocity of the water seems to be key to steam production. In the article I read the guy used two coils of 3/16" tubing to run his 20ft steamboat.To address your wet steam problem might I suggest using a longer coil, or using a few radiant coils to "dry" the steam, although those could be liable to melt if the fire got to furious. Also add a saftey valve, Monotube steam generators are safer then conventional boilers but still require a saftey release valve to prevent tub tube burst. Furthermore you should hydraulically test your boiler to 2 times working pressure just to be sure your material can handle it.

Hi Tim, I accidentally made a flash boiler when making a sap preheater for my maple syrup evaporator. From the supply tank I ran a copper pipe through the firebox to the float valve. The maple sap boiled in the pipe in the firebox and blew out my very expensive float valve. - Eric.

@thetransportationguy7930

2 жыл бұрын

I hope nobody got hurt.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds spectacular and it probably made some sort of toffee too?

@thetransportationguy7930

2 жыл бұрын

STOP MAKING ME HUNGRY

To coil the tube without kinking it try filling the tube with molten wax. It's the equivalent of a plumbers spring. You need to get the raw material coil good and hot to start with so that the wax doesn't freeze as you tip it in. (If you chuck it in a bonfire you get the bonus of annealing the tube at the same time). Allow the tubing to cool to the point that the wax doesn't burn or boil on contact. Then you need to be quick but careful with your pan of molten wax and a funnel. As long as the funnel is higher than the outlet end the wax should go all the way through. Bung both ends and quench the raw material coil . With the tubing annealed and supported internally by the wax you should be able to form the tubing far more easily. Back to the bonfire to melt the wax out again.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks - I'll experiment!

@friendly_alkali

2 жыл бұрын

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 speaking with 0 expertise, but i vaguely recall seeing something about brass instrument makers using soapy water frozen inside the tubes they were bending as a similar sort of anti-kinking measure, which sounds potentially less fiddly to set up than wax, but i've no idea about efficacy.

@amberyooper

2 жыл бұрын

I have also heard of using sand inside the tubing to bend it without kinking. That could be worth a try.

@brendangilmore4297

2 жыл бұрын

@@amberyooper I was about to suggest that when I saw your comment - though I wonder how sand could be fed into the tube & got out again? I'll bet there was a marvelously simple method those old boiler makers used for making coils......

@robertwinsper7409

2 жыл бұрын

@@amberyooper Sand is good but can be very hard to remove in a tight coil. You can actually buy a special low temperature melting alloy to fill up pipes prior to bending which is excellent but expensive, wax is much cheaper.

Wrap more tubing around the outside of the flue, thus easily preheating the water, connect to the internal tube. Then insulate the whole flue, you could use well oversized flue pipe and vermiculite. On the other hand you have created a very good method to heating your shed or anywhere else, connecting some radiators, a pump, oh, and a good quality pressure release safety valve. Thanks for giving us your time.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents on the water flow comments. From my experience of heat exchangers your setup looks correct. you introduce your cold medium (water in this case) you want to heat up to the end of the exchanger were the heating medium (smoke and hot air in this case) is exiting and isn't at it's hottest. This in turn means the medium you want to heat is exiting the exchanger just after it has been in contact with hottest part of the heating medium (in this case the steam is leaving the exchanger just after it has been exposed to the hottest part of the fire. This whole arrangement is called counterflow heat exchanger as opposed to a parallel flow heat exchanger which have less effeciency and don't achieve high temperatures. I don't if gravity and or bouancy is having a detrimental impact in this setup. Maybe a horizontal or inclined arrangement would be more effective I dont know. Love the videos

Awesome proto-type! My suggestion would be to send the water in at the bottom rather than the top. That way you have gravity and the pressure working in your favour. Water in the system will be concentrated towards the bottom where it is hottest from the fire and the steam will rise through the tubing away from the water and remain hot from the heat travelling up the chimney. In chemistry condensers are always set-up this way with cold water in at the bottom and hot water out at the top to maximise the heat exchanged.

@donotwantahandle1111

7 ай бұрын

Also bring the tube from the top back down to the fire to superheat the steam!

I've just watched this video and remembering you built an air compressed locomotive, I just thought that maybe some extra steam produced from your flash steam boiler could be used to pump up your air compressed locomotive. I'm not sure if it will always work, since the boiler won't be heated all the time to pump your locomotive, but you could store excess steam into spare cannisters to use at a later date. Just a thought. Your work is absolutely amazing! 👍

Pretty sure you should wound the copper pipe around a slightly smaller diameter pipe then the chimney, so when fitted it will cover the entire wall of the chimney, giving it good surface area

You need the copper pipes RIGHT IN the flames,a flash boilers has no insulation. What you have made is a highly effective chip geyser or donkey boiler. See designs by Abner Doble for both high performance cars and successful aeroplanes, no wonder Donkey was so vocal, that was aproval. I have seen these designs as a member of a model engineering club 😂

10:58 love this 🤣

One nice trick for bending copper without it kinking is to find a spring that fits rather closely around the tubing. I've heard of filling the tubing with sand but that sounds like an enormous hassle. You can also heat it, copper can be annealed over and over.

@ejkozan

2 жыл бұрын

I heard that filling tube just with water and crimping both ends is also very effective method. And it is easy to empty it afterworths.

Yo old man! If you want an easier time cooling those copper lines, try talking your copper reel and heat the whole thing up until it’s glowing red, then immediately quench it in cold water. This will aneal it and make it extremely malleable, but it will kink easier but shouldn’t be an issue if you’re careful

I love it! As a mechanic who works with steam, you might want to install a steam trap if you use this for a locomotive. The water impingement can be very damaging to mechanical systems, especially ones with pistons in them. Shouldn’t be too hard to make, it’s an impressive system you already have! As someone said, more coils is more better, but I’m not sure how to improve your current manufacturing process

@Mafanwe

2 жыл бұрын

more better!

@nathanmaxon4692

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mafanwe I stand by what I said

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Nathan - but I was hoping to get the steam hot enough so I didn't need a trap. Just not sure how yet.

@nathanmaxon4692

2 жыл бұрын

@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 while superheated steam would be great, it still doesn’t entirely eliminate the need for a way to get rid of water. Old locomotives simply bled a ton of steam before they took off, which works, most condensate is when the system is starting, assuming you’ve got enough heat. Like others said, smaller, and more, coils, maybe a preheater of some sort, and play with water inlet until you’ve got the maximum steam without condensate in the piping

@nathanmaxon4692

2 жыл бұрын

You could also put a back pressure regulating valve of some sort near the outlet: the steam has to be above boiling, because of the pressure, so when it finally builds up enough to overcome the regulator, it’s well above 212F, so in a lower pressure system, it’s superheated. Just make sure your coils can take whatever pressure you put it at!

Puting fine sand in the pipe can help with the kinking. Love the new channel! Keep the videos coming

You can run fog machine fluid through that thing! It would make an incredible amount of show fog quick! Donkeys love show fog. Jokes aside, a commercial flash boiler works with a metering pump which pumps water in carefully metered amounts in a cherry red glowing empty(!) tube. Steam powered trucks and cars like the famous Stanley steamer worked that way. There are also model speed boats with flash steam boilers. When I was young I always wanted to build one. I don't think that copper tubing will work reliably at those high temperatures combined with high pressures and the constant water hammering, though. When I was experimenting with flash steam scale model boats I used special grade stainless steel tube as (strongly...) recommended in the plans.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks - interesting!

not sure, but if you either fill the tube with water and freeze it or wax, it will coil without kinking...or fill the inside with a long spring. Also not sure if you need to anneal copper, I know to bend brass you need to heat it often as brass work-hardens, but I cant remeber anymore if copper is the same. Good luck!

Your voice is so reassuring😊

Winding tubes is much easier with a properly designed and sized tube bender or by filling the tube with something. Sand is traditional but really hard to get out. Some success has been achieved with ice. I have considered low temperature melting metals and sugar but haven't tried either.

This, I believe, works on the same principle as Abner Doble's steam generator which he used in his steam car in the early 20th century (see it featured in Jay Leno's garage).

You may want to look at increasing the length of the chimney and heat exchanger to get more effective heat transfer - perhaps a serpentine chimney, insulated on the outside to prevent heat losses, with a longer heat exchanger could work? Even without the long length, insulation on the outside would make some difference. You're definitely running the water the correct way though - excellent counterflow heat exchanger design!

RE: copper tube - fill it with sand and you can bend it however you want with no kinks.

Mount the pressure-gauge on a u-bend or siphon, they don't like steam inside them. :) If you can make a mandrel as long as the chimney, & wind the coil (filling the pipe with water will prevent collapse.) with a pipes-worth of space between turns, & some clearance between coil & chimney, this might be long enough to provide superheating. If not, add a u-bend from the output of the coil down to the fire-box & then back up the chimney to the safety-valve, steam control-valve & gauge. The internal clearances should improve gas-flow & heat-exchange.

To bend tubing. Fill it full of sand before bending. You will backup the area behind the bend.

I'm not someone who knows what he's talking about, but I have some experience with fire and heating water. My thought was to put an oil-filled jacket, open at the top to avoid a pressure build up, around the burn chamber, and run a heavy-duty copper tube through it. The tube could be much shorter. Maybe then you could gravity-feed water down into the tank, with a one-way valve keeping the steam from backing up into the water tank. The other end would exit into some kind of steam engine. Warning, over time, the copper tube could fail, injecting water into the oil, causing an explosion. Or the oil could get too hot and catch on fire. OK, don't try that, it was just a thought.

Nice one. Maybe you can add some copper pipes at the stove so that they take in air at the bottom and give the air into the stove at the top. The principle of an hobo stove: Less smoke, more useable energy.

Cool and good luck with this project.

One thing that I might try is putting a steam dome sort of device to separate out the water on the end of the water tube then run the steam back through the smokestack a few times like a superheater to make dry steam.

@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that's what I need to do - but how is really the question

If you fill the copper tube with water and seal the ends it is easier to roll into coils without kinking.

A trick I learned in making copper coiled tubes is packing the tube with sand first and then using tube bender. At that point, you can make some impressively tight coils.

Maybe put the firebox inside a oil barrel, that will hold more water to make more steam.

straight tubes that join into one at the top and bottom for feed and output. Also if you make a heat sink from a heavy bit of iron and drill through it so the copper pip can go through the middle, as the iron gets hot it will heat the water with its stored energy. this may offer a fast start if the system is not in constant use. also fill the pipe with(non corrodible metal )wool loosely.

You know, there is a type of steam engine that would be perfect for your work and for what your looking for

Now I see why lots of boilers were made with many straight tubes joined with fittings. Easier than curling pipe.

The thing to remember is that the pressure at the outlet of a boiler like that will be equal to the pressure of the stuff going in - so if you are supplying water at 2 bar, the engine will need to run at 2 bar. Looks like you need to get more heat into the water somehow - either by increasing the number of coils in the heat exchanger or by increasing the temperature and/or flow rate of gas coming up through the flue. You could install a blower at the inlet of the firebox to achieve both, or try something clever with the geometry of the chimney.

@alexanderolsson585

2 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't you get 2 bar plus the extra pressure from when water changes from liquid to steam and pressure increase from heating the steam?

@IslandHermit

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexanderolsson585 No, because as soon as the pressure of the steam rises above 2 bar it will prevent any more water from flowing in. So it will self-regulate to whatever the water pressure is.

@IslandHermit

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. So rather than burning all that fuel to make steam you could just drive an engine directly off of the water pressure.

A steam whistle might be a cool project

I have found my new favorite KZread channel.

Just my two cents worth, but I might suggest a Hot engine/cylender block as a good low-tech solution to keep the hot water from condensing too often in your valves and cylenders The phenomenal speed going from cold water to boiling is really impressive, even if you don't use it for an engine it's a great water boiler. Awesome!