What do you think of this idea?

@WanderingWriter

2 ай бұрын

I agree with this completely. If I was able to go to high school again, I would love to try a vocational school

@professorwhat2704

2 ай бұрын

My biggest question is what a kid who decides they're on the "wrong" track does. Is there a way to transition from one lane to the other?

@iberniaofficial

2 ай бұрын

W idea

@mcmahon31619

2 ай бұрын

I completely agree. We've built our education system around the idea that everyone has to be doctors or lawyers ECT but not everyone can be that. A quote I always love to bring up. If you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree it will go through its life thinking it's stupid

@rgentry9

2 ай бұрын

My only fear is that kids with a vocational focus would be separated from those with a more traditional focus. This means that they'd be exposed to smaller variety of peers and personalities. But this can be addressed through the way this is implemented, as long as there are still some shared classes that everyone takes then it should be good.

I hope Mr. Terry reacts to this video.

@Bonbonguy

2 ай бұрын

I was going to watch this but I’m just gonna wait for the Mr. Terry reaction to watch.

@anathardayaldar

2 ай бұрын

What kind of hat should he wear?

@patrickpendergast898

2 ай бұрын

Remember like and subscribe to the original video so the creator gets credit

@Bonbonguy

2 ай бұрын

@@anathardayaldar any hat would do, just nothing too formal ya know

My wife is a high school teacher and I run a union apprenticeship. About 6 years ago we started a pre-apprenticeship with some of the local schools so we share some students. It’s amazing how some of her trouble students excel when they come to my training center because there working to a goal they can see instead of attending classes because they have to.

@marcjones744

2 ай бұрын

I graduated in the top 10% of my class... I wish school had taught me skills worth teaching someone else. You have achieved my life goal. Thanks for what you're doing.

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

There we go!

New England has had public vocational and voc-ag schools for decades.

@spizun

Ай бұрын

Yup, I have many friends who go to the Essex Technical Academy

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

And they have the highest scores in the country. Of course other factors are at play with academic achievement though.

I think it's a great idea. Coming from a family with a LOT of teachers (parents, multiple aunts / uncles, cousin, sister) I think an even harder problem tho is dealing with parents. Most of my family is retired now tho my sister is still teaching, but one thing they've all talked about since the 90's are parents who want their kids to get good grades however necessary, including just bumping them up for no reason, and school administrators just rolling over and agreeing to it. Parents have no respect for teachers and just want little Jane / Johnny to look good on paper. They don't push their kids to do the work, just the teachers to hand out 'A's like candy. There's also a ridiculous stigma attached to vocational type jobs. Even back in the early 80's when I was in high school, the "smart" kids prepped for college and the "dumb" kids went to vocational classes. That was silly then and even more so today.

I think the trouble is how the classes themselves are run. A grade based system, with just paper after paper instead of physical representations, especially for math courses (that is probably the biggest thing that gets many teens to hate math classes)

I have two major concerns here: 1. convincing tax payers to pay the extra money, especially at first when facilities are being either constructed or retro-fitted for vocational classes, but also for the extra teachers this would likely require, and 2. the potential to further the divide between elements of society that took different lifepaths, since they'd be diverging in their lifepaths earlier (from middle-school onward).

@milamber319

2 ай бұрын

We do a lot of things with our tax dollars people dont agree with. Bailing out companies, military spending, etc. So take the money from some corporate welfare and youll see some support. I'm more concerned with how school districts dominate the funding quanity. IE. people pay into a school because of the district and poor districts who are likely to be more on board with these lifepaths are also likely to habe basically no funing for these trade schools which DO require more funding. Changing the way school funding is allocated from locality to greatest need will have a greater noticable effect.

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

Those are all valid concerns. Thank you for sharing!

Here in Pinellas county Florida we implanted a system very similar to what you presented in your video. The problem became twofold, maybe three. We were able to get away from our forced bussing order by implementing "magnet" school programs. These were supposed to draw students out of their neighborhood voluntary rather than forcefully. The most attractive vocations were selected to be placed in the least attractive neighborhoods. Two similar problems arose quickly. When given a choice, most students wanted to stay close to home as did their parent(s), as well as bussing a few select students to their magnet programs became very costly. The third problem was quality of the teachers teaching the vocations. Obviously, most teachers had graduate degrees and knew little about carpentry, nursing, or computer science. My son selected a computer science prgram and learned little more than data entry, my daughter selected the arts program and aldough, it did a good job of holding her attention, (she was ADD) neither child learned enough from their programs that they could make a living off of their trainig. Both of my children later attended a PETEC program to learn their prospective trades. Both of my children have been out of school for ten years, and the Pinellas magnet program is a mere shell of what was promised.

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

Thank you for sharing. One of the concerns I definitely have are getting qualified teachers for vocational classes. Obviously, people in highly skilled jobs are going to be reluctant to leave the private sector make teacher wages. It would likely be more attractive to people nearing retirement age. My father actually did this.

I went to a private school for the first couple years, before switching over to the public system (im old enough kindergarten wasn't a thing in public school yet at that time). My parent's wanted to expose me to more people etc, and I appreciate that. Most of my teachers were fantastic (save for two). That said I got lucky. I agree with the vocational school theory. We used to have a dedicated one here, however in the late 90's, they converted it to a conventional high school, oddly it's my own sons current high school. They have kept a few of the programs, like auto repair etc, but its a far cry from what they originally built, and intended for that particular school. Hope everyone is taking care.

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

Thank you for sharing!

I think one of the things that would need to be addressed is parents pushing a particular vocational interest onto their kids, or otherwise, pushing a particular vocational interest _away_ from their kids. I would like to see this program put a strong emphasis on kids finding what they want to do regardless of what other people tell them they should pursue, aside from what their counselors might recognize to be their particular talents.

@LockheedMartinEnjoyer

2 ай бұрын

In the current system this isn't feasible. Lack of funding and willingness to actually pursue these steps is a harder sell to the local board of education if they haven't talked about it. These course are more often cut out when budgeting, my local district with GM built a quarter million facility dedicated to metal working, CAD, and automotive workshop only to be turned into a adult education center after the first 2 years.

@anathardayaldar

2 ай бұрын

Its said that most people change their minds about a career around three times during college. So what if they made a career decision before even applying to a high school?

@Iansco1

2 ай бұрын

@@LockheedMartinEnjoyer Exactly. The problem is everyone, in one breath, wants technical schools too. But also bleat about taxes needing to be lower and lower every year. What they, not him mind you but most, want are actual academics gone and "everyone to be forced to take woodshop, metal shop and Auto shop!" You know? The same people who take their NEW, Modern car to the shop after they "Did some tuning in the driveway on Saturday afternoon" and things dont work. They then complain that engines are too "Computer" now to look like a "Tough guy, classic man" tuning his engine all day Saturday for everyone to see.

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

In the model I advocate for, students would be required to take classes in a wide array of vocational fields. You wouldn’t be, or even really be allowed to, commit to one trade. At least not early on

My brother and I went through public school and struggled to keep motivated, let alone keep passable grades. Although his grades were better than mine, I'm the only one who managed to stick through college. He left after one semester. Meanwhile, our sister is in a vocational school and, while working at age 15 (she makes as much as I do on her first job...), she has straight As and can speak better Spanish than I can. And I've four more years of Spanish classes on her. Of course I'm proud but of course I'm also jealous af. She's figured out exactly what she wants to do and has already obtained college credit for her work. When I was 15, I complained about strict teachers and was the errand boy, since I got my license early. I'm sure there's personal issues at hand, but the difference between schools has for sure made a difference for the better.

@marcjones744

2 ай бұрын

You and I were probably told to go to college. The generation after us figured out that was only half true because what they really needed to get was valuable skills and qualifications, degree or not. We were dooped unfortunately.

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

Thank you for sharing! I think your story is very common.

A vocational school system definitely would be a step in the right direction. Also having a life skills class or two that can help teach things like finances, taxes, basic maintenance skills of vehicles and homes. That way they have a bit more understanding of being prepared to enter the workforce or go to further their education.

I went to a vocational high school for Comuter Aided Drafting and Design and helped me go into college for engineering

Wow a Mr Terry original. I love it.

My high school had one of those wings in it for a wide variety of skills from automotive to information technology and childcare. It was a far better experience than the normal curriculum and allowed me to develop the skills I currently have.

A few things to consider on the topic if you decide to do a follow up. 1) Define education. 2) What are these goals of these institutions? 3) Why we fail to meet these goals? Now we can start talking about changes to the system. I believe that changing the education system isn't possible solely if you want to democratically try it. People complaining about why their education is horrible, but cannot tell you how to fix it and reformers are often stuck in their idealistic bubble that they can't grasp reality of the situation.

Interestingly, I was having a general conversation with my brother, sister, and dad yesterday where we actually wound up talking about vocational schools. Good timing!

@MrTerry

21 күн бұрын

What did they think?

@asgharkheshtak8276

18 күн бұрын

​@@MrTerryO7

This is an excellent idea. We had vocational schools until the 19900s here, but they were schools where the kids went to regular school half a day and vocational school the other half. Then someone had the bright idea that every child should go to college so they closed the vocational school. I realize you are talking about a school dedicated to vocational learning all day and that is a good idea, but students still have to be motivated. We have a technical school which students can attend after high school which teaches vocations from diesel mechanic to hair cutting. They can use their Tennessee Promise funds to attend, but not many do so. Whatever school is offered, motivation has to be part of it. Let me tell you a story from when I was in the education system. This was in a poor county in Tennessee. I was talking to a second grader and asked him what he wanted to do when he grew up expecting to hear fireman, policeman, soldier or some such thing. Instead, he said, "I'm going to draw." I said, "Oh, you're going to be an artist." He said, "No, I'm going to draw like my Mama and Grandma." I realized he was talking about drawing welfare. It was a career path in his family. I cobbled together a career day for that primary school with people from all the careers and professions I could muster together from firemen, policemen, college professors, doctors, lawyers, hairdressers, nurses, carpenters, brick layers, mechanics, whoever I could find who would participate, hoping it would motivate some of these kids. We had lost that little boy at 7 years old who already saw failure as a viable goal for his life. He was just continuing his family's tradition.

I view hands on and practical approach to learning indeed much better. But as a student, I think it's important to also know where this apathy is coming from, rather than just "Why do we need to know this?" And a lot of it comes down to day to day consequences. Imagine that you are 15 at high school. You will be graduating in 3 to 4 years. That's about 40% of your life on this earth of being aware of your own existence. Kids experience time differently. What I am trying to say is, that graduation might as well be a lifetime away. So arguments like "well think of your future, where are you going to work" do not really bear that much importance. Additionally, when being at school, student interfaces with a certain subject and its teacher for less than an hour a day. Then, another teacher comes with another subject. Now, consider the contrast of being about seven hours each day in contact with your classmates. Building relationships, reputation and friendships is vastly more important and impactful on day to day basis than appeasing a teacher for 45 minutes and not seeing them until next Thursday... Even being funny and doing joke on teachers expense brings much more positives from classmates than repercussions from that teacher. So practical hands on approach might be good to shift the entire group's mentality and students may start to reinforce each other. But what I would have liked to see in my school was a chance not to just see the practical applications of taught skills, but also their use to achieve some direct benefit in terms of my interests and my social standing in school. And even sooner than high school. In other words, an environment where taught skills might be used in favor of my actual intrinsic interests. (Note: I am not from America, but similar problems occur all around the world.)

The problem is what we're teaching. The education system is mostly wasting time with worthless, impractical, information. You said exactly what I was hoping you would say. video is spot on. I look back at my education and get pissed off

I can tell you without a doubt that I would benefit from the school because I did. I was in the Virginia Beach public education system and I went to the Virginia Beach technical career education Center. By the time I left I not only knew how to fix electronic circuits but I also received my a+ certification in repairing computers

Love this new format. Keep it up!

It sounds great, and its cool seeing you make your own videos.

Yes! Been thinking for awhile it's about time you started making your own content as your insight is always fantastic, unbiased and factual. 🎉

I am constantly thinking about public education and what we can do to improve it... This is the video I've been waiting for. Thank you so much Mr. Terry!

I love this idea. Particularly as I think that there's a lot of jobs that just don't need a college education, and not just blue collar. The change I've been arguing in favor of for decades now is decoupling school funding from property taxes as I feel this is one of the greatest contributors to generational poverty.

While I understand where you're coming from, and agree on the principle, I don't think this solves much of anything. Because there's a resource shortage in public education. Not enough funds, not enough teachers, not enough supporting staff, not enough, not enough, not enough. Building news schools, setting up new programs, and hiring new, vocational educators are going to require a massive amount of investment and funding. Adding a separate vocational program will just further divide and drain resources from general public education. I can also see a lot of kids joining these programs and specializations not necessarily because they want to but because they get better grades in them. The story of the first year engineering major realizing they don't actually like engineering, they were just good at HS math is an extremely common one. This is a novel idea for a well-funded education system trying to get every last student engaged and fulfilled, but the current problems for most are far more foundational.

@LockheedMartinEnjoyer

2 ай бұрын

Exactly! The last two part are the key things. I believe this could be addressed if we also had a proper primary education in place.

Summary of the video, Mr Terry wants to give the kids CTE

This sounds just like the Swedish high school system. After 9-10yrs of (mandatory) primary/secondary school you apply for a program at a 3-4yrs high school. The programs can range from fully academic like natural or social science or fully vocational like mechanical, beauty, carpentry or culinary. Plenty of mixed exists as well. I think all provides you with what we call foundational university competence, but certain higher education will be unavailable unless you enroll in additional subjects or attend pre-uni classes after graduating. Great format Mr Terry! Would love to watch more content like this!

@Iansco1

2 ай бұрын

Here is the rub. Swedish dont whine all day about more and more TAX CUTS. So they can afford to do that. We? Whine all day about how taxes are too high and need to lowered multiple times a year.

You heard it here first: Mr. Terry for President 2024! He CAN fix your education system!

I went to an arguably worst version of public school, called a Magnet school, where basically they take in more students than a typical public school, and as I soon found out, the school did not have the resources for such a thing, and worse yet, it was a K-12. Pink slips were handed out often. For example, I used to love art until the art teacher was layed off and had to be replaced by a front office employee for about the rest of the year, the quality of education decreased drastically. At the end of it all(I went from K-12 btw), I graduated with absolutely no skills, aspirations, or seemingly useful knowledge, to the point where I felt that I wasted 13+ years in that school. Anyways, excellent original Mr. Terry, very relevant.

Finally, he's listened to Mr. Beat. Give me more! Me greedy consumer who likes to feel good by consuming educational content rather than making real change.

I'm really excited for more mr.terry originals!

I don’t fully agree, because what if they want both!? Some people might not want a vocational job, but still want the vocational training; and still get the skills for going to college. Without going into it, I didn’t necessarily want vocational training; but I wanted a bit of both!! During my time there was teachers/other people that didn’t let me have the chance or opportunity to gain the skills to go to college as they didn’t motivate my dreams or interests, and kept pushing for something else; so after hs I went to college being behind or needing a lot more help to get most of my core academic skills. I’ve only recently took a gap year or two, and am trying to go back to finish my degrees; when I could’ve gotten more progress had I had more academic time. Part of it was due to the way I learn, but it shouldn’t be a thing to throw out my chances of going to uni while learning a outside vocational skill like programming or being a cook.

My county has been doing it for decades. Instead of a parity of schools they have one vo-tech school that covers the equivalent of the last two years of high school.

I really agree with the student apathy one because school is somehow so effective at making people not I care, I like to learn and school still sucks, I have self taught myself some basic calculus and organic chemistry because I wanted to learn about it because they looked interesting, get to school and I already want to leave. And I feel lucky at my school because it offers a variety of really good vocational subjects, I mean my school has an auto, woodworking, and machining shop each of which are a good size and with good resources

Thank you for making this - we need more people like you who want to fix the system. I’m a fan of this new type of video for you!!

I would say do what we do here in Scotland and have zero tuition fees (for people born in Scotland), however Universities “allegedly” overlook Scottish kids in favour of foreign kids because they actually generate money for the University. It’s why Edinburgh and St Andrews are awash with English and N. American students.

Not gonna lie your video is really insightful. I know some people who probably could have used this approach. The two biggest problems you face at funding and stigma you might get

100% agree. This should have been done a long time ago.

I really like the idea! Here in my hometown (salt lake city) one of our major school districs has a technical institute (Granite technical Institute, GTI). I had an amazing experience there. It was its own campus that you had to get yourself too and from, but only the motivated kids ended up sticking in the courses. Learned the IT skills i needed to get a job in highschool. Im 30 now, and it truly kickstarted my career

As a teacher who worked in a system with a vocational school like that it was excellent but legislator run education still prevented it from innovation that the school's staff wanted to make over time. I think it might be better to teach a different set of skills than to simply teach jobs because the system doesn't adapt fast enough to new jobs and it has some of the same traps as the Dewey Model. Devon Erikson has some very good skills ideas on Twitter.

I am not sure... when I was growing up in Malaysia, we also have vocational schools (as well as sports schools and art school) but have the same problems described. Few things that hampers the execution. a) It is usually parents that makes the decision to put the teenager in a vocational school and they may have their own biases especially if the vocational school is "marketed" as the "other" school for teenagers who struggle with traditional school, that stigma would need to be addressed first. b) many teenagers do not know what they want, heck, many adults don't either. which is why when you folks why they are doing a particular major in University, many can't give a straight answer, it usually comes down to job prospects, or that they have a passing interest in something, and took the major that is tangentially related to that interest not withstanding that field has very little to do with the interest. (I am looking at all you comp sci majors who thought that programming = game development) There is a sense of "finality" when people are forced to change schools. I say, instead, expand the vocational wings of the high schools and change how highschool credits is given. I always find it strange that exams are structured to deduct marks rather than award points when students demonstrate their competency.

Great video Mr Terry. Having just graduated from High school last year, i feel as though i am far from ready for adult life. Many things neee to be fixed with schooling here in the U.S. I beleive another thing needed to be fixed is how students treat eachother. I know my school had a lot of bullying and a simple "bully free zone" sign did nothing to help

While I agree that there definitely need to be more hands-on and practical types of classes, one other major problem affecting student apathy is how education is mostly done. As an example from when I was in high school was when I was in math, everything was done via lecture/homework/speech, and I didn't remember too much. When I was in a history class for that same semester, we were taught about how WWI started through us being in groups and using diplomacy to see if we could avoid it, and what each nation wanted. I still remember that lesson today.

I dropped out of school due to Lyme Disease. I was and am screwed. I probably would have gone for an associates degree in history if I had graduated and continued schooling, then gone into policing or the military. Or just joined the military at 18. By the way if anyone tells you that you can't have lyme disease because the test is negative they're full of it.

I think the subjects that students have the most problems with them, like math and history would still be hated by them.

You need to hire teachers who are actual experts in the subjects they teach. When I was in school, many teachers seemed to lack a deep understanding of their subjects, had zero passion, and some even admitted they would be lost without the curriculum. EDIT: There were vocational schools where I grew up, but that didn’t help matters.

First, I want to say that I love that you took a risk and made a video essay. Let me offer a couple editing tips that would fix some glaring mistakes that I noticed watching this: -Keep your cuts to a minimum when you’re showing yourself. If you mess up a sentence, say it again. -When doing that zooming in cut thing for emphasis on each word, make sure you’re re-centering the view on your face. The zoom will feel much more natural that way. -When transitioning to B-roll or other footage and back, don’t do it on the first word of the sentence; let things overlap for a few words. Doing it the way you’ve done here feels punchy, for sure, and is a good effect, but not for the whole video. You want things to be smoother. -Speaking of smooth, overlapping and cross fading your cuts even by just 2 or 3 frames will go a LONG way to make things feel less jumpy.

This is almost precisely what I said in a prior comment. My HS had similar programs, but were (at least at the time) widely looked down on bc we had one of the highest rates of HS dropouts in the country. That dropout rate ignores that I never knew or met someone who did dropout that did so when they hadn't already established a good, well paying, legitimate career path. And I think that's precisely how these programs would, sadly, be completely undermined. Many, if not most, skilled career paths don't require 4 years training. Typically, it's about 2 with some students requiring more. That means these trade schools are going to be grossly underfunded bc of the artificially high "dropout" rates and lower student counts as these students transition into the real world. School systems already hate students that are driven and able to graduate due to accruing the necessary credits after 2/3 years instead of attending the full 4 years and the schools themselves are punished for letting students do it. The rate of kids doing just that is going to massively increase in all locations that introduce the option for going down the path of pursuing a trade. Our politicians have been lying to us for decades about how all these different programs are funding our school systems when the reality is, the amount of money being allocated to schools has stagnated despite exponential growth in revenue generation. Hard truth, our governments are too big and too irresponsible for us to fund which is why so many states are now in debt or at least threatening to go into debt due to just "natural" operations. Almost none of the money is actually going where it is supposed to, or if it is, it is being spent irresponsibly - like new patrol cars for cops every other year even after so much of the country used Crown Vic's for nearly 20 years. I'm also boldly going to call out the "fact" that college graduates make more on average. Technically, this is true. The reality is, many of these jobs are bringing these recent graduates in and paying them as much or slightly more, but doing so in a way that massively disadvantages them. Imagine being hired into a job that requires AT LEAST 1-3 years of hands on experience and being given 2 weeks before everyone on your team begins to get hounded for you not being able to overcome that deficit in experience. Ya, some teams would outright sabotage these kids. Most of the time, the kids just quit even when the entire team is going out of their way to help them bc it's just too much fucking stress. And it's too much fucking stress for EVERYONE involved. My final 2 years there, I was in a leadership position and this was coming out of covid, so I had at most 2/3 of what was considered the bare minimum of employees. The last few months, I was done physically. My blood pressure was staying so high that I was at a constant threat of a stroke or heart attack and medication caused its own issues. A year later, I'm on no medication, my bp and all other health issues I was experiencing are completely resolved. I believe EVERYONE should have a "healthy" fear for their job, ie know that if they make a big enough mistake they can and will be fired. The last 3 years I was employed there, my job was being threatened daily for things that were completely outside of my control and that the people threatening my job were most commonly responsible for. I worked there for a decade, the first 6=7 or so years were amazing. I do completely believe this fixes the education system, but I don't believe the inherent bureaucracy of our political system could pull it off in a way that doesn't completely sabotage it out of the gate. That's the sad reality. The education system is just one of many systems today that are functionally completely broken and need to be fixed.

I think this is a great idea and has potential. Could you do a follow up video on where this is implemented around the world and it’s outcomes? Also, how do “we” as parents, educators, and students determine which kids go to the vocational or traditional high school?

@MrTerry

2 ай бұрын

Based off choice with input from parents, students, administrators, and counselors

@johnquackenbush5886

2 ай бұрын

@@MrTerry Do you think there would be a push by parents for their kids to go the “traditional” HS route for going to college? I feel there is a societal culture that looks down on vocational schools and that college is the better route. To me we’d need a cultural change. If you have insight here that I’m missing, I’d love to hear it. Also, thank you for responding. Been watching your reaction videos since the beginning and really enjoy your commentary and how you stick to facts and that you go into the videos to learn.

It’s good if it’s implemented with funding. Public schools in counties in a bad state may barely meet public education standards let alone adding vocational education. Only adding a single teacher to teach welding will still have the students raise the question “why does this matter?” when they were hoping to try out other technical skills.

I am currently enrolled in a vocational highschool, and I can really tell the difference between other students in non vocational schools, and those who are in vocational schools. It seems to greatly impact behavior, and student's intrigue and interest with school, because they are learning about specialized fields that they are interested in.

@MrTerry

2 ай бұрын

Would you say it’s a positive thing then?

@alextaylor2611

2 ай бұрын

@@MrTerry Absolutely. I feel like many students that I have encountered feel disinterested in school due to it's perceived uselessness, but vocational education provides a great way to prepare students for whatever field they wish to pursue, along with making school feel more interesting and personalized.

This is a video deserving of a reaction. It could be our own form of a petition.

Lol. I coasted through and played the fool throughout my entire time in school, but as soon as I entered the workforce, started learning actual useful stuff (and getting paid for it) all my inhibitions of learning melted away within a week. School was fun but almost a complete waste of 18 years.

Thinking back to HS, I would say I was in a good public school. While it was small and didn't have all the fancy stuff larger schools had, but I still got a good education, and I would consider myself a good student. What I didn't like were some of the educational requirements, especially coming from the state level. I took as many science and tech courses that I could. However, I didnt much care for the cultural offerings (band, drama, etc.). But I was forced to take choir as a freshman elective course instead of robotics like I wanted. Talk about a soul killer. Your desire and input as a student about what you learn is overridden by administrative factors outside your control. Too many kids want this course but there's not enough seats, but hey you have a deep voice and choir needs guys, guess where your going.

So, expand the Job Corps program to cover more vocations and integrate it into the public school system? I can agree with that, and not just because I'm a Job Corps graduate myself. Sadly, many schools that had similar programs have dropped them due to liability and student safety 'concerns'. Thus, we'd need to fix that problem first, THEN your idea can really shine.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. This sort of high school might not have served me, because I wanted to go into genetics when I was that age, and then I found out it wasn’t really for me when I was too far along with college. Simply put, we do need all options on the table so people can decide what is right for them. I think there is a difference between the kind of economy we thought we were going to have, and the economy that we actually do have. I think the assumption for a long time was that everybody was going to go into these professionalized jobs at the top of the pyramid. But for a couple of reasons, that proved fruitless. We’re actually more of a service based economy, and somebody needs to do the menial stuff which is undervalued. Having more of vocationally-based options at the high school and college levels would definitely be part of the solution. Having more students that are actually prepared to enter, the workforce would be better for them, and better for employers.

Mr. Terry, I love this format! ❤

@MrTerry

2 ай бұрын

Thank you! I hope to do more like this.

Hell yeah! Mr. Terry original, lets go!

Im pretty sure they had a hybrid of this in the 90s, but then standardized testing took over and vocational training went away. Technical schools exist in South Florida, but I didn’t find out about them until I was 25,26. Very poor advertising & they don’t market it to high school students/8th graders; mostly adults. I’ve heard that Germany had a system like this, but Americans complained that it pigeonholed 8th/9th graders into specific career paths

This is a good idea. It is similar to Germany’s system. However, for a US example that can show how this can be successful, look at successful band programs in secondary schools! Schools with very strong band programs operate very similar to this concept, where students can explore a special interest at a very high academic level. Those students come to school for band and regularly score in the top of their class. I believe a similar model like you are talking about will do very well, and band is the proof.

In Mexico I went to a vocational Middle School because high school is optional and has an entrance exam requirement for those that actually want to continue on to college.

@MrTerry

2 ай бұрын

Do you feel that was an appropriate age to have vocational schooling?

@frozen2ninja

2 ай бұрын

@@MrTerry because of the location and general culture around the area at the time, yes. Middle School over there starts at 7th - 9th grade. It was a very agricultural focus town so a big focus on food growth and food production. The other options were textiles secretary skills they also recently got classes on finance, accounting, economics and consumer rights. There's a few others that I can't think of right now. Most of my classmates went to work if they couldn't make into high school. Then they would try the next year if they were still interested.

Yes. And, ... Not just vocational high schools, but STEM schools and arts schools as well. My home city has both and they're EXTREMELY successful. All we need to do is invest in education without cutting corners across all socioeconomic strata, urban and rural. Magnet schools work. More people should have access to them.

Student Apathy is now a problem in college to the point that colleges have become diploma mills. Before, ppl went to college if they wanted to become lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc, but now “everybody” is supposed to go to college and it’s a waste of 4 years and likely 10, 20k debt

My only issue is that we still need to find a way to get kids involved in the core subjects. Cuz as I'm sure Terry history is aware of those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it

I graduated high school in 2022 and have been at home more or less every day since. If I had been put in a vocational school that focused on the automotive industry instead of normal public school, I would've built up some muscle. Currently, I'm nearly 300 lbs of fat with more muscle dedicated to walking, sitting, and standing than lifting heavy things or using hand tools. I don't need a gym membership that can expire, I need a gym membership where I pay to sign up, then I can show up and use the equipment whenever I want as long as I remember to bring quarters to buy water from a vending machine. Hydrate or die-drate, people.

Higher pay is part of the fix, though Terry is right that it's not a magic bullet.

"It only takes 38hrs to teach a native English speaker how to read." - John Taylor Gatto , Weapons of Mass Instruction. And personally I think it takes even less time to teach basic math. In my experience fifth grade is when students in mass start to question why they are even at school. So in my opinion these basic skills should be achieved as soon as possible and then the students should be allowed to self study. The teachers job should then just be that of guidance and curation.

The German educational system remains one of the most efficient in the world. You take exam after exam so that by the time you are 12, you already know whether you're academia, manual or technical labour material. Their vocational school, or aussbildung, is taken very seriously by both students and the state. It genuinely teaches a proper trade to live a comfortable life.

Not sure where your located but Voc Tech High schools are have always been around here in Ohio. THat being said the first thing that needs to be fixed for students is the home life. Hands down. If the family would instill some basic education and importance of their education at a very young age instead of sitting them in front of the latest electronic device you would see a big difference almost immediately.

With what budget? I’m with you, I think it would be great, but $$ makes the world go round and that would be a big part of the problem. Vocational schools would demand a gigantic investment in public education. No politician would see the use for that when they themselves send their kids to private school.

@skrimshaw72

2 ай бұрын

The most obvious answer to the funding problem is have the federal education money follow the student, and not automatically be sent to various schools. This would quickly encourage schools to improve and diversify their programs because they would instantly be made to compete in an open market for funding that is attached to the students.

@LockheedMartinEnjoyer

2 ай бұрын

​@@skrimshaw72did we not try that for the last 2 decades with the Bush and Obama administration? Look at how that turned out.

@LockheedMartinEnjoyer

2 ай бұрын

Agreed! We carry as much responsibility to make sure our politicians are actually fulfilling these and until the public is ready to swallow that cost better to stay cynical.

@kpusa1981uk

2 ай бұрын

​​@@LockheedMartinEnjoyer Not really those measures were really suppose to inprove education and still manly prepare students for high school and high school is mainly preparing students for going to college/University.

@skrimshaw72

2 ай бұрын

@@LockheedMartinEnjoyer No, that's never been tried. Federal dollars go to the school districts, not the student. Schools get paid for test scores, they don't have to compete for students, only test scores.

Many students go to college when what they really want is a vocational school. You can tell because they are completely focused on what kind of job they can get when they graduate. That's not the original mission of college, its just what people think college is supposed to be now.

Please tell this to my school district!!! The standards also need to go back up to what they used to be. My district has repeatedly lowered the standards here because so many kids were failing or getting low grades. SOOOOOO many kids in my district are GRADUATING and they DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!!! A lot of them can't even READ above a 3rd-6th grade level!!!!! It's Jefferson County Public Schools in Kentucky. Our school district is such şhīţ that it's consistently making the news. It even made national news in August for its bussing disaster.

I think this idea has a lot of merit, being not just a way to raise student engagement, but also just help our society maintain a higher level of skilled workers to do fundamentally necessary work. My one concern, Mr. Terry, is how will school districts manage the fundament, fixed costs of maintaining both a vocational school and a traditional academic school - these places will still have to keep the lights on, maintain sanitation, and keep the support staff that helps it run? Especially in poor or rural districts, where budgets hang on a wire's edge of enrollment, it feels like we'd need a fundamental change in how education dollars are accrued and spent. And that's not minding places like here in my home state of Iowa, where we apparently decided to throw caution to the wind and allow public dollars to support private charter and religious schools that are leeching away the student body as is.

My only issue is that the way school are funded would make the possible vocations limited

I always figured standardized testing and teaching for only that has done more harm than good

I'm an English teacher in Japan and I often compare it to the American system. I'm realistic when it comes to teaching English. I'm not one of those teachers that tells students that learning English is super important. I hate when teachers tell them that. I say English isn't for everyone and if you want to learn it then great. If not then that's cool too. But it's a required subject in Japan. In Japan, high school is not mandatory but majority of students go. They have entrance exams and students will take several different exams for different schools just in case they don't get into their first choice. University is the same for them. Once they graduate from junior high at 15 they can choose whether or not to go to high school. The interesting part is that students do not get failing grades. They don't have to do a damn thing and they can still graduate junior high. They don't even have to come to school. I've had students that I never met until graduation day. Some problems with the Japanese system is that they study for tests and not to learn the material. It's part of the reason why Japan sucks when it comes to English. They're also not very proficient when it comes to history either. Their classes are more lecture based rather than participation based like they are in America.

Mr. Terry with the 🔥

My view is that the first two years of high school should be “normal academic” high school and then at 16, students should be given a vocational vs academic path

I wonder what the difference in funding would be if it were implemented at the state level or federal level.

Also part of the problem in my eyes is also the pay for teachers, because if I’m going to teach; I’d rather it be in college because they pay well enough compared to k-12. Also they are more free in the way you can teach!!

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm wondering, as a history teacher, where do you fit into the picture? History is something that any individual can get through life not knowing and be perfectly fine, but, if, as a society, nobody knows it, we're screwed.

I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt to expand on the topic

One problem with public education is that it has become politicized. The fact that giving children a quality education is now considered to be a political position is shameful. It shouldn't even be a question.

@Mr_DPZ

2 ай бұрын

The sad thing is that the anti-public education movement is so divorced from reality that even if you showed them the most unbiased, fact-based curriculum they would think it was indoctrination.

@LockheedMartinEnjoyer

7 күн бұрын

The whole idea of a educational institution is a political project LMAO. Why do you think the government want STEM graduates so much?

Vocational schools are great. We need more of them… however, a lot of Gen Z wants to be KZreadrs, TikTokers, and streamers. They don’t want to actually work for a living. Not saying vocational isn’t a solution. It absolutely is and should be pushed way more. We need to get these kids off their dang phones and get it through their skulls that “content creator” isn’t a viable career for 99% of people. Ain’t no teenager with dreams of sitting on their rear and “live-streaming” Fortnite as a profession will even consider leaving their house let alone getting their hands dirty and doing real, blue-collar work. I blame the parents for using tablets as babysitters when they are toddlers and smartphones when they are in middle school. I blame Ninja and Mr. Beast. I blame KZread, TikTok, Twitch, etc. There is so much blame to go around.

@Mr_DPZ

2 ай бұрын

I do think it's important to let people to _try_ to pursue their dream careers, but it needs to be consistently reinforced that the likelihood of success is very low and they need to be prepared and willing to take regular day jobs.

I 100% agree with this and I hope people in positions of power and influence will see this. Especially because it’s coming from a teacher. I feel like current traditional high schools are not providing the right curriculum to help students when they graduate into the real world. Why spend 4 years teaching students mundane classes that they really don’t care about? You can start teaching high schoolers actual job training that will provide them with the abilities necessary for employment. Thank you Mr. Terry!

My sisters going to a private school next year because public education is too slow for her

Not sure about your district, but when I was a HS physics teacher, the local voc was able to pick students, so the kids that needed it most got booted out in October, after the count for funding date, but before the counts for state assessment date... And yeah, it wasn't good.

Back in the 90s when I was in high school (small town), the local vocational did their presentation, but the teachers in my high school did everything they could to convince students not to attend a vocational school, as it would "destroy any chance of being successful as an adult". I hope attitudes have changed in the last 25 years. I have a culinary arts degree, and it would have been far cheaper to just go through a vocational for the same thing. At the time I wanted to do computer programing, and they did have a program at the vocational for programming, but I was told it was better to stay at my school and take their 1 class, which turned out the teacher barely know how to use B.A.S.I.C., let alone any advanced programing language. I wasted 3 years in college before I gave up, only to go back years later because my job as a line cook required I have a culinary degree or vocation to be full time

Excellent video! Mr. Terry🗣🔥

14yo me: When am I ever gonna use this Algebra crap? *Goes into business management* 34yo me: Why didnt they teach me Algebra in high school? 🤔

Most people change their minds about a career around three times during college. So what if they made a career decision before even applying to a high school?

What do you think about modifying state standards for vocational schools? I think that current state standards (in general) would not fit the vocational model well, and ELA/Math/Science need to be adapted for this purpose.

@LockheedMartinEnjoyer

2 ай бұрын

Unless that state already has something vaguely similar in place, this isn't really doable but not impossible. It's a matter of providing adequate funding to keep this alive but schools already have trouble with funding so good luck trying to get it passed.

By and large, Job Corps is this. However, certain Job Corps centers are mismanaged and become gang breeding grounds. (I should know, I went to one, being Treasure Lake in Oklahoma.)

My old high school has something like that in place if you were working where you spend the first half of the day in class than by noon youd soend the rest of the day at the job you had and it works well get work expireience and get to learn work expireince

I think something a little more hybrid would work best. All my children have done generally well in school but done poorly in certain facets. Most of my children are not very vocabulary proficient, for example. I've also found that critical thinking studies have fallen behind in our local schools at multiple levels. So I still believe there is a place for plenty of classical education, but much of it could be rolled into vocational style courses. Metalworking classes, for instance, don't need to just be about the actual metalworking. There can be writing assignments. There can be history assignments. There can be math assignments. It's just more how you fit this into a relatively well-rounded education that works for as many as possible.

Yes, yes, and yes.

If you have a full fledged vocational school, not only can you have classes for skill based professions, but you can tailor things like history, English, and science to be more synergistic to professional classes.

@MrTerry

2 ай бұрын

I like that!

this is alot like many european educational systems! after middle school your put on academic route or vocational route based on your academic scores etc. your never confined to one or the other and can get academic scores up and switch from vocational to academic or other way around switch to vocational route. the other plus side is we are in dire need of electricians, plumbers, carpenters, hvac etc so having people come out of vocational school certified in these fields ready to work will be so great for overall society as we will have the workers we need in those vocations and they can immediately start contributing to the economy and their own lives in meaningful ways they wouldn't otherwise. it may hit the service industry hard though as alot of people not going to college or drop out because it hard end up working in those industries for 5+ years while determining a route for themselves. i see that as a win though as it forces service industry to be more competitive with their pay if people are coming out of highschool already in vocation.