HENRY STAPP, i really appreciate your splendid description. I wish many minds where as pensive in nature as yourself, sir.

Another mind bending episode from RLK exploring the outer reaches of current scientific thinking and making it available and somewhat understandable to the general public. Thank you Mr. Kuhn.

I love the esoteric innerstanding of Mr Stapp. Mr Kuhn, the heat will go up since breath is always there to reach places that it hasnt been.

Good stories. Every human sees the world through their own story. Reality is right in front of you,you just have to let go of the stories.

👌🎯 I 'understand'this and it means a lot to me. Amazing and fascinating at the same time because it touches on freewill and the evolution of the soul.

I hope someone plays that beautiful Koto in the background.

quantum mechanics has time / energy uncertainty; if E = m * c-squared, might energy come from mass of time multiplied by speed of causation / light squared? quantum energy decoheres when reduced from speed of causation / light squared to below speed of causation / light at which point develops mass in classic mechanics?

Robert Kuhn you so DESPERATELY want your brain to be a neural pin-ball machine - you GOT IT!

My brain is hot and warm, very warm.😂😂😂

How does mind communicate with brain? If I want to move my arm, how is that information translated to my neurons so that they know what to do? Where does a cognitive decision truly originate in the brain?

@simonhibbs887

5 ай бұрын

In physicalism the mind is an activity of the brain so this is not a question in that view. It is a problem for dualism, because it supposes that mind and brain are independent phenomena. It also supposes that mind is non-physical, which means it needs to explain how the non-physical can affect the physical, and what non-physicality means in this context. In the physicalist view neurons are information processing systems. They store, process and transmit information, and information processing systems can evaluate information and make decisions. We know physical systems can do this. You're using a relatively simple device that does this right now, a computer. They use a physical process to evaluate information and take actions in the world, such as displaying information, transmitting information, switching devices on and off, computers can fly planes and drive cars. So in the physicalist views the brain works in a similar way, processing information and making decisions. That's the easy part. The bit we don't understand yet is how these processes of receiving, synthesising and evaluating information use self-referentiality to give rise to consciousness.

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

Because of the “shape” of the part of the brain that controls motor function tells your arm to move. Like grooves on a record tell the speakers how to vibrate.

@7200darkcharm

5 ай бұрын

@@simonhibbs887 Eh computers are prompted to do things by outside actors i.e. us. Our cumputers would never transfer the messages we're sending right now without outside prompting. When I'm thinking It's as if I'm both the speaker and listener, which seems redundant. If I'm producing the thoughts why do I need to also listen to them. But this (speaker and listener) both seem quite imporant once you try to imagine a situation where you had one and not the other.

@simonhibbs887

5 ай бұрын

@@7200darkcharm >”Eh computers are prompted to do things by outside actors i.e. us.” They are created by an external agency, us. We are created by an external agency, evolution. Even if you think we are created by a god of whatever shape, kind or flavour, that’s still an outside agency. A thing is what it is, and does what it does, however it came to be that way. >”Our computers would never transfer the messages we're sending right now without outside prompting.”
 We would never do what we do without outside prompting. We spend the first decades of our lives learning and being educated, in fact learning is a life long process. The decisions we make are based on information we get from outside ourselves. Compare yourself to a human child raised by wolves with no language, no tools, eating raw meat. Everything that is different about you compared to that state came from somewhere. However lets’ take your first statement above, nowadays the behaviours and actions of the most advanced AIs are not programmed by imperative human written code. They are evolved. These systems consist of neural networks with randomised initial connection weights. This generates random behaviour in an environment, such as selecting moves in a game of chess or go where the environment is a game board. It might be a maze or racing drone track. Thousands of instances of randomised networks are matched against each other. The ones that do the best ‘survive’ and are cloned, with each clone’s network weights getting small random adjustments. The process is repeated for the next generation, and then thousands more generations. In each generation the slight random variations result in some individuals being better at ’survival’ and other worse. Over time the most fit individuals come to dominate. This is how the Chess and Go playing versions of AlphaGo were developed. The first time they played human grandmasters, or any other player human or AI other than copies of themselves, they won. None of these AIs contained a single line of human code directing their choices, it was all evolved. So we know for a fact, and have proved, that random generational changes and a selective environment can generate intentional, sophisticated, goal seeking behaviour. An experiment in Switzerland used these techniques to evolve cooperating AIs, that even exhibited altruistic behaviour, giving up resources they needed to survive in order to enhance the chances of their offspring.

@Arunava_Gupta

5 ай бұрын

A very important and pertinent question. 👍 For all of us to ponder . 🤔

Many brains don't really.

@Johnjohnthejohn

5 ай бұрын

Also they haven't even discovered why people like experimental jazz music. Some things are just inexplicable...

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

@@Johnjohnthejohn if you think that’s perplexing, try explaining why some people like Yoko Ono’s singing.

could choices be made at frequency of time?

I listen to these two and I listen to some at my local pub... What's clear is that brains function on completely different levels to the point that it's almost impossible to compare! I think it's spiritual. Examination of the brain on a physical level looking for answers is like looking for a black cat in a dark room that isn't there!

@jimliu2560

5 ай бұрын

How do you “test” the spiritual?

It is like an oil press crushing or squeezing the oil the brain will require later on. Bone marrow only exists in the limbs. It is like the raw crude oil 🛢 of life butbit requires your attention from your intention to continue. Being lukewarm in this process is the most dangerous and denying of oneself the product of multiplication of excellent things in their being. I left my residence today knowing i would get the same information I knew, but i also made my mind up not to use the map on my phone. I walked 16.7km from the event to my abode. I got a nasty bruise in my thighs. I felt and observed my self breathing triple and double in and one out when i got to regent's park. This pace was busy interrupting the frequency of bible chapters i was listening to. So, i left it with my headset still in my ears. The closer i got to the end , the happier i became. When i got home, i went for a chilled jar of water 💧 and proceeded to the toilet. I was able to control every movement with absolute precision. I had a shower 🚿 and moments later, I was looking for a complimentary card i got from the event. After that, i had my first meal of the day, which was rice and stew without meat 🍖. I will drink some water 💧 later on or drink coffee ☕️ since i have 2 main modules to complete before thinking of writing and preaptlring for the python certified associate programming exams. I haven't walked since spring cause i have occupied completing RHEL RED HAT LINUX ADMINISTRATOR exams objective and are about to complete Python too. Stapp, I knew I knew i would listen to someone like you in this brilliant series from Dr. Robert Kuhn. Although i can sometimes become irate when i hear s9mething far feom the truth, but also pay my dues by acknowledging truth spoking by the real few students who have the power to make minds take the next step of innerstanding to the next level.

A brilliant man I always wanted to talk to some day.

≈ power output of a honey bee flight muscle cell ≈ 3400 pW. power required to operate the flux capacitor in the DeLorean DMC-12 time machine = ((2.02876 Watt)^2/3400 pW) or 1.21×10^9 Watts

I believe the nervous system fluid and brain fluid acts like an energy field that is basically responsible for inflicting beautiful spooky actions at a distance and around the bundles of nerves inside the spinal cord and around the entire brain and deep inside the brain ventricles as well because it is consist of cerebrospinal fluid and the brain floats inside cerebrospinal fluid that protects it from the skull walls, this could very well be the reason why the left side of the nervous system could sense what the right side is doing and why thoughts and dreams have freedom to universal shapes for developing new ideas and thoughts and understanding different mixtures of colors passing through the eyes of the beholder and understanding the smells of different perfume fragrances an more like combining bitter and sweet into one flavor turning hot and cold into warm and then into pleasure because the energy allows it for the beholder and more.

Dr Kuhn, Do you ever ask a biologist about the origin of the universe or the theories of unification? Why do you ask physicists full of themselves like this one, how the brain works or the origin of consciousness? Talkingabout this issues to a guy like this, or like many philosophers you have had in you podcast, is equivalente to talk to psychics or fortune tellers in a circus.

Stapp is pretty far out there. His opinion of quantum mechanics' importance for brain choices isn't mainstream physics. Kuhn shredded Stapp's argument by pointing out that a brain is too hot & complex to allow quantum superpositions to cohere long enough to be significant. The "mixtures" that Stapp cited to try to salvage his argument are just independent statistical ensembles, which lack fundamental quantum randomness and are deterministic.

Materialism is totally wrong. But I wonder why quantum theory is employed when we explain our mind. I don't know whether it is right approach or not.

@S3RAVA3LM

Ай бұрын

Right. Quantum still assumes a particle as being the source

This was brilliant. Closer to the Truth is really living up to the name. I’d love to see more conversation with the quantum aspects in mind. I really appreciate what you do.

Both lack any conception of the quantity and quality of work being performed by the UNCONSCIOUS MIND. Our “working memory” (consciousness) is extremely limited to just about 7 BITS of data. The “conscious” decision making assumed by the guest is absurd.

Folks tell us the brain is in control. The brain does not see or hear so how does it control our hearing and eyes? I mean what does the brain care if a sound is to loud or soft when it does not has no hearing at all? I read that we actually know little about the brain like only 10% with 90% being glial cells which function is largly unknown, which is interesting since we also only know about 10% of the universe what is does (90% of universe is dark matter of which we do not know what it is). What do we actually know??

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

That’s the neat part of a system. The central nervous system is a system. The brain doesn’t need to see, that’s what eyes are for. The back part of your brain which processes sight, relies on the eyes to interpret the world in a language the brain understands. Just like IKEA instructions. 😊😂

@Resmith18SR

5 ай бұрын

Maybe your brain is 90% dark matter. 😮

@fortynine3225

5 ай бұрын

@@dr_shrinker You are over your head here. The joke is on you. Why do you even comment here troll?

@fortynine3225

5 ай бұрын

@@Resmith18SR Hard fact science knows little about the brain and the universe odd trolling does not change that a bit.You have nothing to contribute here.

@Resmith18SR

5 ай бұрын

@@fortynine3225 You just confirmed it. GFO 🤣😂

He is saying exactly what I would want to say to Kuhn in such an interview.

is it possible to find the painter by examining a paintbrush or the sculptor in a chisel 🤔

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

Yes. Pollack has a totally different brush than Van Gogh. If you know everything about both the brush and the painter’s hand, you could connect them - even if not in practicality, but theoretically.

@r2c3

5 ай бұрын

​@@dr_shrinkeronce you have enough information about a particular style, in relation to another, all you can do is identify the differences and not the artist...

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

@@r2c3 the differences ARE the artist. An artist’s painting is an artist’s signature. Not counting DNA on the brush, if you could sample every single molecule and could catalog every molecule from every painting, you could match the brush to a painting like matching a key to a lock, or shell casing to a 🔫 . In theory. If a painting is a physical thing, and an artist is a physical thing, and their studio is a physical thing. So theoretically speaking, you could match the tips of the brush to the strokes of the painting. Conservators authenticate paintings all the time using modern forensics. Practicality aside, it can be done in theory. 30 years ago, no one assumed you could trace a red blood cell to a person in another country. But alas. DNA is a key that fits 1 in a billion locks.

@r2c3

5 ай бұрын

@@dr_shrinker i you can do it, you deserve an applause... I have nothing else to add on this topic...

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

@@r2c3 I can’t do calculus but I know it can be done. I guess you missed the part where I differentiate theoretically and practicality.

I'll raise my thumb to that

The mind is physical. That’s why we go to school; to have physical processes sculpt our 🧠. If a bear jumps out at you, you don’t, randomly, decide what to do. You move based on your preconceived idea of the threat. That’s why you’re “told” not to run if you encounter a bear. You ALWAYS decide based on your preference. Freewill is just the masking of the reasons behind your preference. - the illusion. Quantum randomness has nothing to do with will power or free will. It’s the structure of your sculpted brain that determines what you’d do in a crisis scenario.

@fortynine3225

5 ай бұрын

First you pretend to be a expert on the brain. Now you are a expert on psychology. And of course you are a expert on everything also..

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

@@fortynine3225I don’t know about being an expert, but thank you though. I’m flattered. ☺️

You're getting there. The "psychological," the immaterial decision, before the electrochemical brain action.

@fortynine3225

5 ай бұрын

Really? This is the universe there is nothing immaterial here. Maybe after we die there is something immaterial.

@peweegangloku6428

5 ай бұрын

@@fortynine3225 The existence of both the physical and the non-physical is a daily reality

@fortynine3225

5 ай бұрын

No it is not. Non physical is always connected to something physical. With stuff like physically might be not physical at all.

@peweegangloku6428

5 ай бұрын

@@fortynine3225 Something working along with the physical does not make it physical.

@fortynine3225

5 ай бұрын

@@peweegangloku6428 Like i say we do not fully understand what physical is. What you call working along is dependend on and integrated with the physical. You know like in a non physical world there are no eyes, ears and sense since there is no body with stuff like mystical experiences being subtle, hearing seeing or feeling related. To me it is more like such subtle physical experience might point towards a non physical world instead of being non physical.

It doesn't... If a brain asks himself what a brain is... it is obvious not using his brains...

Sometimes it feels like they just don't work or don't exist at all for the majority of humanity...And that is extremely sad ..

A physical description of brain activity using the equations of quantum mechanics may be the next necessary step in explaining the extraordinary powers of consciousness.

@blakemon1703

5 ай бұрын

Says your brain. 😂

@quantumkath

5 ай бұрын

@@blakemon1703 😂

Everytime he says "psychological aspect" or "psychological process" that is non-physical, he is talking about the spirit. The "you that is making the choice." Consciousness requires the brain and the spirit. Sometimes with Quantum mechanics they say an observer is needed. At the begining of the universe who else was the observer other than God?

@dustinellerbe4125

5 ай бұрын

. Please look into more neuroscience, biology, and physics.

@gordonquimby8907

5 ай бұрын

@@dustinellerbe4125 I love the Kuhn's discussions with neuroscientists on consciousness. Kuhn points out many times that neuroscientist have no clue what creates consciousness and don't even have a clue how they would have a clue. That's Kuhn talking! From physics: Theoretical physicists love the idea of 11 dimensions to reality. Well we can only test in 4. That leaves 7 more dimensions for the spiritual world to exist. Look at the origin of the universe. It was not from matter and a purer form of energy than we know of with our science. Of course the fine tuning is a problem. Materialists need an infinate # of universes to get around it. Hmmmmm......

@gordonquimby8907

5 ай бұрын

@@dustinellerbe4125 From biology: Look at the origin of life. DNA needs far too much support structure to be the original genetic material. RNA has the advantage of also forming ribozymes but many feel as a genetic material is to too fragile. Doesn't do well in heat. So some think there must have been a third, yet unknown, genetic material. Hmmmm..... Of course there is the problem of getting all the molecules needed for this new life form, into the protocell, yet keep the bad stuff out. Big problem there! It is easy to imagine how some stuff came together, but other molecules need completely different environments. And the protocell needs millions of years of supportive enviornments nurturing it. How am I doing?

@S3RAVA3LM

5 ай бұрын

True. The Buddha teaches in the Nikayas that human consciousness is like fire. Fire does not derive from the match or the rough surface alone. When both the match and rough surface come together, 'there' arises fire. However, the antecedent to all of it, is anatta, and this is the via negativa version of the Atman which is used as affirmation in the Upanishads - to is sometimes acknowledged as 'pure absolute Consciousness'. Buddha is about retroduction which follows the logic of via negativa, and too, via negativa - such ancient methods are not acknowledged today, I never see any of them ever do it.

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

@@gordonquimby8907 you said….”materialists need infinity to get around it.” That’s not a good argument against materialism. How could “nothing” contain the universe, if it has a limited boundary? That’s impossible. If the universe has a boundary, then what contains the area that contains the boundary? Then what contains the boundary, that contains the boundary, that contains the boundary? Ad-infinitum. There is “something” and “nothing.” Since the only thing that exists is “something,” there is only “something” and that “something” goes on to infinity, because it cannot be contained by “nothing.” If it was contained by “nothing,” then “nothing” Is really just more “something.” On and on and on ….. I hope this helps.

The brain represents the physiological means by which the *I Am-ness/agent/soul* (with its accompanying mind) is awakened into existence. From then on, the brain and body function as a sort of multi-sensory *"interface"* that allows the mind's agent to interact with the phenomenal features of the universe of which the quantum properties of the brain and body (but not the mind) are entangled with. The human mind is like a "parallel universe" relative to the universe in which it was created.

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

Nah. The mind is like the brain’s functioning. It’s the result of physical processes.

@TheUltimateSeeds

5 ай бұрын

​@@dr_shrinker Purely physical processes cannot explain why a lucid dreamer can *"willfully choose"* to shape the fabric of her dreams into a tropical island paradise where she can lay on a sandy beach, as opposed to creating a cityscape where she can go on a shopping spree for a new dress and shoes.

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

@@TheUltimateSeeds no one can willfully change their dream. You can’t even control your thoughts when awake. Your thoughts manifest and you react to them.

@TheUltimateSeeds

5 ай бұрын

​@@dr_shrinker Did your reply simply manifest without you willfully controlling your thoughts about it? Furthermore, according to Wiki: *"...a lucid dream is a type of dream in which the dreamer becomes aware that they are dreaming while they are dreaming. It is a trainable skill. During a lucid dream, the dreamer may gain some amount of volitional control over the dream characters, narrative, or environment..."* Do some research.

@dr_shrinker

5 ай бұрын

@@TheUltimateSeeds yes. It did manifest because YOU (the material universe) posted a comment that triggered my response. If you didn’t post your comment, and your reply as well, I would have never posted mine. Causation. But aside from that. Wiki? Should we use wiki to prove god exists too? 😝😝😝😜 “In Christianity, the title Son of God refers to the status of Jesus as the divine son of God the Father. In Trinitarian Christianity, it also refers to his status as God the Son, the second Person of the Trinity (the Godhead) or hypostasis of the Trinity.” lol. Surly you can do better than the “click copy paste” argument. 😅 That’s older than “MySpace.” lol. “Do some research?” As if….

The problem with this rather desperate attempt to save dualism is that the Libet experiment breaks the notion that consciousness resolves quantum mechanical states to discrete states. In the account Stapp gives here the brain under quantum mechanics generates a discrete decision, as the Libet experiment shows, and then our consciousness chooses whether or not to consent to it. That means QM is resolving to a discrete state, a specific outcome, prior to and without conscious awareness. But Stapp thinks consciousness is required in order to resolve QM states to discrete states in the first place. So which is it? The other problem with his account is that we do measure neurological activity associated not just with the resolving of the choice potential, but also with the conscious awareness of the choice, so both are measurable brain activity. There's no evidence of any external factor reaching in and switching neurons on and off without physical cause. More generally the problem with such dualist accounts is that they assign causal power to non-physical factors, that reach into quantum systems and push them into resolving one way or another. The problem is that we never see this actually happening. Anything that can cause a physical change we can be aware of is by definition observable, and we never observe it. Of course it's not possible to prove a negative, but it means that if consciousness does sometimes make a physical difference, it does it so rarely that it's not even barely detectable.

They are both trying way too hard to stretch QM around pure conjecture. Though the incessant lip-smacking by the guest belies his perceived certitude.

@gregorymccue5003

5 ай бұрын

Thoroughly agree. Neurons either fire or they don't, bio-chemistry, does not occur at the quantum level and has nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

@craigswanson8026

5 ай бұрын

@@gregorymccue5003 Right on. The macroscopic realm of chemistry is more than the sum of the quantum particles. Biochemistry operates after any quantum weirdness has been resolved/solved/dissolved.

@tamunotonyegeorge6252

5 ай бұрын

Lip smacking 😂

@tenrsounds

5 ай бұрын

Yeah heavy on the evidence in this one

@haydenwalton2766

5 ай бұрын

I don't think robert is on board. as was touched on by robert - I think this bloke is mixing up the micro with the macro. and anyway - what about the goings on of the subconscious self (activity in the brain before 'we' decide....) and the block universe (all of space/time exists) ie. there is no 'free will'. the universe is just one big cause and effect machine.

There was everything. Then came the brain. The brain doesn't create the world around you. All the brain does is allow you...

Nature doesn’t make jumps. Maybe we need to wait until we fully understand quantum mechanics then we can use it as a tool to knock the door to the secret of consciousness

QM requires measurements.

The most confusing guest I have ever seen on KZread. The guy is talking out of his butt! What a dope.

This is hilarious, they are both saying in the fanciest way possible that "we have no idea ultimately how reality works". I'm hearing this more and more from science nowadays. I mean, string theory was considered the "the most promising field in science", now its just regarded as a waste of time and more than likely false by the larger scientific community. I wonder when they will finally give in and just start accepting there is One Devine creator for all of reality as this makes more logical sense than anything science has postulated.

Guy being interviewed is lost, trying too hard to find word sequences, get a fuller perspective smokin weed with ma friends

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Pure BS

Pseudoscience bs