As drone pilots, we have to give way to manned aircraft! However, if we get LAANC (lance pronunciation is correct! 🙂 ), it means that we have permission to fly in a specific airspace in a specific time frame. If I heard the report correctly, a NOTAM was issued as well. Not sure how that worked? If the FAA wants to have us drone operators integrated into the federal airspace, and need the Remote ID, I think that manned aircraft should also get notification (NOTAM) that we are flying in the area! Btw., I am also P107 certificated, and fly the Mavic 2 Pro for real estate and construction at times.

@TSmith6P3

6 ай бұрын

I have been watching this closely...The FAA says the drone pilot is to give way to manned aircraft but there was a NOTAM issued in the area for UAS up to 200ft (expired 12-31-2023). I also agree with commits on how helos can sneak up on you.

At low altitudes, the sound and low frequency 'thump' that we all are used to hearing from helis approaching for typically many seconds ahead is not present. They literally appear out of nowhere. I suspect this was true in this incident too.

@rreiter

6 ай бұрын

Yup, also true of seaplane ops ascending or descending through treetop level on lakes. We just need to be vigilant, not sloppy or neglecting our airspace scan.

VLOS is your friend here. I had a microlight on top of me before i knew it, but because i had VLOS, I maneuvered the drone away from the Microlights path. No harm done.

Working site is noisy. You do not always hear all aircraft

@TheChopcat

6 ай бұрын

Both operators of the drone and helicopter are pilots and as such are their primary role in this situation is collision avoidance. Speaking as a ex commercial helicopter pilot (and commercial drone operator) the chance of seeing a moving or stationary drone is absolutely zero from the helicopters point if view. The requirement on the drone pilot is to maintain situational awareness. If that cannot be done for whatever reason then the flight can not take place. Aircraft and particularly helicopters which do not have a particularly high air speed do not come out of nowhere and it incumbent on the drone operator to provide sufficient lookout to cover the airspace that they are flying in. Excuses such as it came from behind me or it was very low just do not wash. The helicopters fight envelope is from ground level up. It was lucky that the drone did not strike any other part of the aircraft which would likely to have been catastrophic, particularly in cabin area where the R44 windshield provides no protection even from large birds (which incidentally are smart enough to have sufficient awareness to avoid flying into helicopters). So it is incidences like this which push the CAA to getting drones onto the SSR/FLARM systems

@pdtech4524

6 ай бұрын

OK let's assume the drone pilot didn't hear the helicopter⚠️😳😲 That begs the question, what the hell was he looking it? Because surely it couldn't have been his drone?🤔⚠️ Otherwise they would have instantly noticed the helicopter and avoided. My guess he was too busy looking at his FPV feed and NOT looking at his drone. The 2 most important things for a drone pilot, your vision of your drone and flight area and your hearing to detect peripheral hazards not in your immediate vision. Helis make a lot of noise I usually hear them way before they come into view.

@cryptosteve5377

6 ай бұрын

@@TheChopcat So the best option would be for safety as you can't always keep a eye on the drone. Would be to make they place were he is flying his drone into a no fly zone for aircraft for the time he is doing his job.

@TheChopcat

6 ай бұрын

@@cryptosteve5377 NO. The requirement is for the drone pilot to always “keep an eye” on their aircraft in order to avoid collision. If you cannot see your drone you should not have it in the air. We often fly with observers where situations mean you need assistance to maintain that constant visual contact that you are legally required to (in the UK)

@TheChopcat

6 ай бұрын

And the chance of issuing NOTAMS for every drone flight is absolutely zero. The costs of doing so would make drone operation totally unfeasible although your point is a good one did the drone operator try to notify anyone before undertaking the flight? For commercial drone operation this is part of your flight planning process.

I was a helicopter mechanic in the Army more than 30 years ago, so my knowledge may be outdated and limited. Whenever the rotors come into contact with ANYTHING, it's referred to as a sudden stoppage incident. Even a brief stutter will cascade through the helicopter's drive train and could cause damage to any of the components - main rotors, engine, transmission, tail rotor drive shaft(s), hanger bearings, and the tail rotor assembly. Everything has to be thoroughly inspected in the case of a sudden stoppage. I'm guessing that's one reason why the repairs are so expensive.

@2Bluzin

6 ай бұрын

You just made me afraid to fly in a helicopter ever again.🤣

@DaveInNH

6 ай бұрын

@@2Bluzin As long as the rotors remain clear of obstacles, you should be OK! No mowing the lawn or trimming the hedges allowed.

@darrenwilliams414

6 ай бұрын

i watched the air ambulance land once the the pilot got out with a ladder & checked the blades when he was done i asked why he said looking for stress cracks as these sometimes fly apart mid flight so i check after each flight i asked what if you find one he said it stays here until a new one gets fitted

@tombusby2333

6 ай бұрын

So a bird hitting the blades could case the same "damage"???

@PiDsPagePrototypes

5 ай бұрын

​@@tombusby2333Depending on the species, the bird can be much worse then any consumer drone.

What's the purpose of LAANC if aircraft aren't warned that drone operations are taking place in the area?

@mentalimbalance6808

5 ай бұрын

That is an EXCELLENT question. I haven’t even thought about it until I read your question. I’d be satisfied if a warning popped up on my screen alerting me of an aircraft entering my airspace. I’d be happy to land immediately until it became clear to fly again.

As someone who lives in controlled airspace near the ocean, I have to say I am on team drone pilot on this one. Even 5 miles away from an airport, at the edge of controlled airspace there are so many planes coming and going my ADS is constantly going off and police helicopters buzzing the beach as low as 200 feet seem to come from nowhere. I literally have about 5 seconds between hearing the helicopter and taking evasive action before I can even get a visual on where the helicopter is coming from.

@SPS_survivor

6 ай бұрын

I’m with you man!!

@jemadv1594

5 ай бұрын

We live 2.3 mi. from a small / med. airport and 1 mi. from 8 Lane Interstate hwy. We can not always hear an aircraft until it is very close if it's flying below 200' because the trees absorb sound waves. And trucks on interstate are noisy. I always submit a Part 107 flight request and have approval for the zone I'm in. Then a Heli shows up and slows directly over my house where the RID signal would have been when flying. Fortunately I have landed each time before incident but the fact they are flying directly over and slowing indicates prior knowledge of the drones location. Are drones RID being tracked ? I have 5 FAA approved strobes on my drone to assist with visual aid for not only myself but these Heli are traveling over 100 mph at times, just above the trees. They are on a drone in seconds. There needs to be a better RID tracking system to communicate with Pilots under 400' And stop auto faulting the drone below 400'. There needs to be accountability for all aircraft under 400'. If you don't want the responsibility, fly above 400'. I'm notified on DJI controller that manned aircraft is in the area many times but not always. Generally well before I can see aircraft but Heli may have been 100' hovering then started moving without a new warning sent out "manned aircraft in area" Not sure exactly but Heli are a bigger concern then planes in my area. Good job

@NateJGardner

5 ай бұрын

Imagine if it were a paraglider or skydiver the helicopter came up on like that. At what point do pilots need to accept responsibility for the dangers of flying at low altitudes and take extra precautions?

@prevailz1

5 ай бұрын

In my area police helicopters are not broadcasting and ADS doesn't notify me. Which I think is really stupid on their part.

@NateJGardner

5 ай бұрын

@@prevailz1 I was casually flying in the Philippines and the next day the President's helicopter landed at the same spot I was flying. Also no ADS-B. Pretty sure I was a whim away from ending up in a Filipino prison, despite following the local drone laws very closely. Had I chosen the next day to fly around that spot, there would have been no way for me to know about the traffic there until it was close enough to see and hear, which, when surrounded by hills, is way too late.

As a pilot of both R44 and Mavic 2S I can see a few issues on both the drone and the Robbie pilots side. As always we need to wait to see what the FAA and NTSB concludes. Thanks for an informative video.

Many years ago I was flying a slope-soarer at Ivinghoe Beacon, an approved site for flying model gliders in the UK. I was with a group of other flyers and several models were in the air. We became aware of the sound of a helicopter to our left. The sound became louder and suddenly a blue helicopter flew from our left to our right in the direction of the London Gliding Club. The helicopter passed below us and our models in front of the slope. None of the models were at any significant altitude above our elevation and the chopper was within the space that some of the models would dive to. Could have been a disaster.

I'm a Part 107 pilot in Daytona Beach, and I know the area we'll. You can get LAANC approval for 50' at that area, as it's right next to the Daytona International Airport. There's a lot of air traffic there, and 180' seems risky, but I don't know what protection he would have with a waiver. I've been near that area flying, and have had to drop down for helicopters before (mostly law enforcement flying very low). I've heard them coming in addition to the "manned aircraft approaching" message...

UAS pilot here.... Looking at the maps, this all happened right at the helicopter's tour base. This area also happens to be in the Class C airspace of the Daytona International Airport. The automated authorized altitude limit for drones in that area is only 50ft. Without further authorization, the UAS was well above legal altitude and the helicopter was likely just arriving or departing its base, which should have been fairly predictable and plannable for the UAS operator.

@alvinmortimer7536

5 ай бұрын

The drone operator had a flight plan in the area with the clearance... I live here. The issue will be that the drone operator was not utilizing situational awareness and was not physically looking at the drone itself, he was focused on the screen rather than the sky... And how a helicopter just crept up on him is beyond me. Keep a lookout for the FAA report, my synopsis won't be far from the findings. And with all that said, the helicopter pilot is also responsible partially.

@Jerry10939

5 ай бұрын

I have thought that drones are a hazard to navigation.

@Jerry10939

5 ай бұрын

Helicopters are allowed to fly lower than other aircraft. And rural areas planes and helicopters can fly extremely low.

8:41 The mass of the drone is secondary to the angular velocity of the helicopter rotor. For instance a helicopter rotor spinning at 600rpm (62.8 rad/s) will, at a distance of, say, 1 meter away from the axis of rotation have a liner velocity of 62.8m/s. For a 900g drone that translates to an impact energy of 1.78kJ. The further along the rotor the drone strikes the higher the linear velocity and therefore the higher the impact energy. A 900g bird strike would do much less damage to the blade than a drone, as the bird is made of flesh and bone and is highly ductile. The helicopter blade would have a much lower local deceleration (and therefore deformation) at the rotor from the bird than it would from the drone which is made of metal and plastic.

As far as the strike location on the rotor, remember for forward flight on a helicopter they pitch just as your drones do. This means that an object level with the Jesus bolt will not hit the tip of the rotor blades.

I live in Volusia County. I was flying at at level around 300' and the Sheriff's Helicopter came out of nowhere. Drones get sucked into the blades if the chopper goes under the drone. I got an alert that an aircraft entered MY airspace. I landed because Air 1 was trimming trees very low.

This needs a lot more regulatory attention here is the US. When I need to fly in Orlando there are many tour helicopters, I take the time to call the tour companies and give them deconfliction information, but it changes nothing, they continue on yhe same flight paths and the same altitudes. I am required to avoid the helicopters, but why are they allowed to ignore deconfliction information?

Note on Noise - it's a Robinson (which fall out of the sky by themselves way too often) with small piston engine, so there's no 'whack-whack' sound of the blades cutting through the gas-turbine exhaust. Robinson's are quieter then many cars and pickups, and can be drowned out by the noise of a Semi Truck. Add that to it being closer to the ground then normal, and if the drone pilot is in a noisy location, such as next to a public road, the sound of the heli could easily be hidden in the background sounds.

I had a close encounter with a helicopter flying an Autel Evo 2 Pro several years back. Similar altitude - right under 200 feet..Flying over a large Seminary campus, I heard, and then saw a helicopter at similar AGL. I did not have ADS-B, but estimate coming within 150-200 feet of the manned aircraft. I was so shaken, I packed up for the evening and just went home, picturing an investigation and all the drama associated with such. I like ADS-B, primarily for low altitude aircraft such as this encounter.

Cool. I did read an article that the Mini series had updates but I couldn’t verify that. Great to know. Thanks a gigabyte!

Lovely video, Find it hard to believe he didn't hear the Heli approaching. Look forward to meeting up soon.

@jamesbruce

6 ай бұрын

I had an incident recently where helo came over a ridge line into an area where I had just landed a Mavic 2 pro. I never heard the copter until it was in front of me and only saw it as it was flying tourists down through a lake area over water. I can see how this would happen. Not saying that I would not have been at fault, but that was the incident that caused me to up my insurance. Also, my first time to fly next to class D airspace with waiver, I thought pilots would be more aware. The first plane to fly through my flight area was a reminder that they were not aware. BE vigilent up there.

good video, thx. this really calls for publishing the drone's flight log to see exact locations and movements. drone pilot had to have heard heli also.

Yeah... I thought guys who let their drones get near manned aircraft just weren't paying sufficient attention. The we were out on a shoot on a boat in the middle of SF Bay flying very large drone with a cinema camera on it. It weighed just under 55 pounds. Out of nowhere a Coast Guard heli was on us in what looked like full cruise at about 100'. That was a true "holy crap" moment. We didn't hear them. We had eyes on our drone. Whew... lesson learned! We re-vamped our VO requirements.

@realitywave

6 ай бұрын

Sounds like the CG pilot was being a hotdog.

@ericbraun4652

6 ай бұрын

@@realitywave Yup... definitely... but you've still gotta get out of the way if you possibly can.

@jtjames79

5 ай бұрын

This is going to keep happening because the FAA will never do something that will make pilots obsolete. A digital skyway system is very simple computer science. But once you have a digital skyway with an API, anyone could start programming autopilots. So we are stuck in the last millennium.

I was on holiday last year in Scotland, in the middle of nowhere next to the shore of Loch Ness on the quiet side, not a soul around no boats on the Loch, no people around at all. All was quiet so I did all the usual checks, drone scene etc , all was good to go so I flew the air 2s out over the loch and took some snaps. I bought it back in to land and as I was putting it away a plane came in next to the shoreline and landed about 500 meters down from me! I couldn’t believe it. 2 minutes earlier and our paths could very easily have crossed, the wierd thing is I actually saw the plane before I heard it, it was that quiet.

Great report Sean, Happy New year. 🙂I pronounce it as Lance LOL. This accident is such a small percentaged come paired to Drones and aircrafts in the air. I would say it is all going well Peace

I fly in a rural areas mostly. I am constantly on edge due to the regularity of a few cessnas and nore recently military helicopters coming out of nowhere. I always check my flight tracker app prior to flights to get an idea of what could be near. I ALWAYS check my b4ufly app prior to taking off but they do not show anyone flying below 400ft. The cessnas have been gliding so you dont hear them until they fire up their engines and at that point my drone does notify of manned aircraft nearby. I hate always having to drop to treetop level for them. I cannot afford to have an accident. Constant situational awareness is obviously ideal but when the manned crafts approach silently or not on radar its a split second decision.

VOs are not required, but it's a good idea to have one. The FAA says the Visual Observer is optional. VOs are only required when the Drone Pilot is flying FPV.

as far as i can remember (in the UK) the Air Navigation Order says that an aircraft should remain 500ft clear of any vessel. vehicle or structure with the exception being at landing or take off . This means 500ft away from the object to be avoided not 500ft AGL. Both pilots could have been flying perfectly legally but i think it shows the need to keep a good lookout by both parties and understanding the limitations/problems of the other parties ie the person on the ground is more likely to hear the noise of an aircraft but the pilot of the aircraft will get no noise clues from the drone. for your info I do some general avaition flying and i know how difficult it is to spot at times another full sized GA or microlite aircraft so spotting a small (bird sized) drone is not easy - maybe both groups need to look to having ADSB incorporated into both areas so that the pilots of both will get an electronic warning of the presence of the other. I have a mini 3 pro and on thing that stands out with it and all the smaller dromes i have seen is that they are Grey - possibly the worst colour to spot against the sky so why not use dayglo colours to make them more visible - just an idea.

If this operation was conducted in controlled air space with FAA clearence, a TFR should have been issued for the drone operation. What am I missing here?

@tbauer1349

6 ай бұрын

Responsibility is a two way street! The helicopter pilot is responsible to keep an eye out also. What if this had been a small maned aircraft or helicopter? What was the speed of the helicopter at that elevation and why was he flying so low??? Just because drones are so new to aviation doesn’t fix sole responsibility to them.

@user-it7lf7kk8m

5 ай бұрын

@@tbauer1349 a small manned aircraft or helicopter is substantially larger than a drone so much easier to see, but even they can be difficult to see if you are not aware of where they are. The pilot will also sometimes be looking at instruments or dealing with other issues.

@CrusaderSports250

4 ай бұрын

​@@user-it7lf7kk8mpeople are stating the drone pilot must keep Los all the time, and or use a spotter, exactly the same could be leveled at the helicopter pilot flying at low level, both could look away for a moment to check something, but I guarantee the helicopter was travelling significantly faster than the drone which was shooting video. Assigning blame without knowing the full picture is fraught with problems, but with the current media anti drone agenda the drone pilot will be at fault because he was there, regardless of any evidence.

@user-it7lf7kk8m

4 ай бұрын

@@CrusaderSports250 it is the authorities that say that the drone pilot must keep LOS etc, not just anybody. Helicopters and other aircraft were up there long before drones were even invented, so drones have to fit in around other aircraft. If a drone crashes it is just the cost of a drone. If the helicopter crashes it is lives at stake.

Pretty clear rules to me. Drone flying legally below maximum height limits. Heli flying illegally below minimum safe manouverering height. When you're in "the zone" concentrating on flying, you generally block out external distractions. Especially on an industrial building site. Lots of noises to mentally block out.

😮I live in the USA in an urban area where there is a lot of helicopter traffic. The Copters tend to stay above 500 ft AGL, except when landing or taking off. We should expect them to operate between 500 - 2000 ft. I would wait for NTSB report, but I’m curious if the copter was flying in Class G airspace. Helicopter pilots seem to take a lot of risks.

@chris8video

6 ай бұрын

UAS pilot here.... Looking at the maps, this all happened right at the helicopter's tour base. This area also happens to be in the Class C airspace of the Daytona International Airport. The automated authorized altitude limit for drones in that area is only 50ft. Without further authorization, the UAS was well above legal altitude and the helicopter was likely just arriving or departing its base, which should have been fairly predictable and plannable for the UAS operator.

As ever, interesting, thanks. I've had helis come from behind me that are (illegally) flying stragiht and klevel below 500 ft in the UK whilst legally flying my drone well below 400ft. I didn't hear it until it was on me. JC

@loc4725

6 ай бұрын

I once had an incident similar to that at a model flying site. The heli pilot appeared to be taking someone out for a ride, saw the model plane and proceeded to fly & hover over part of the field. It was at about the same altitude as my model, about 200ft and you couldn't miss the noise. It was so close I could make out the passenger's trainers (seekers) from where I was standing.

@dazg258

6 ай бұрын

In what way would you have considered the heli pilot to be flying illegaly?

@flyerh

6 ай бұрын

I have flown helicopters commercially for over 40 years.Flying below 500 ft is not necessarily “illegal” for a start when in a landing phase where you have never landed before,good safe practice is to do a high and low recon of size,shape,slope,surrounding and surface of the site and look for wires,fod etc. Also commercially operated helicopters can be issue exemptions from the 500 ft rule for filming and survey work. In controlled environments I have had exemptions down to 60 feet for a movie shoot and to 150 feet on a network rail survey. You could be recreationally flying close to a hotel where a helicopter takes off from.It will need airspace below 500 ft to get to 500ft.

@jameshcox

6 ай бұрын

He was below 500ft and didn’t appear to be coming in to land or taking off. I am willing to be corrected but don’t think this is allowed.

@PilotChris06FW

5 ай бұрын

An aircraft must not fly closer than 500ft to any vessel, vehicle or structure. This is a UK rule... if I'm not within 500ft of such objects.... I can fly lower than 500ft legally....observing the land clear rule if I'm on a light aircraft.

My first thought was that the drone operator was to avoid other aircraft regardless and that helicopters are usually loud enough to hear them coming, but he seemed to be following all the rules at the time of the collision. I, too, as a drone operator and private pilot follow the rules but having done a lot of drone work onsite at a huge construction project (with numerous helicopter operations from nearby medical helipads) for the last three years I'm certainly familiar with the high noise levels from massive construction equipment operating nearby. Perhaps he didn't hear the helicopter. I'm within 1.5 NM of a working control tower at a general aviation field, flying my drone 400' and below, and the helicopters can occasionally surprise me though they have always been at a safe distance. The tower operators know I'm there because I am required to call them at least 30 minutes before I launch and immediately when I'm finished as specified in the FAA Authorization. I believe he may have been in the same sort of noisy environment. I'm looking forward to reading the NTSB Probable Cause information and final report.

They make boom lifts that are 180’ tall, the Genie SX180 comes to mind. 180’ is not very high AGL.

Interesting bit of context. The sticking point for me is that UAS operators MUST yield for manned aircraft in ALL situations. Thanks for showing that it's not as clear cut as it might seem though. I'm also curious if the Mavic 2 Pro has ADS-B on board to notify the pilot of manned aircraft nearby. Though it'd only be helpful if the heli was broadcasting a ADS-B signal.

We do not know the sound environment at the location! There could be heavy industry there, trucks and heavy jets taking off. It could be that it is impossible to hear the helicopter even though it is right next to it. The only right thing is to wait for the accident report and what they have come to.

I wonder how the drone pilot did not realized of the heli approaching... 2 days ago I had my 4" drone at 200ft angel and at about 400 meters from me... I heard an helicopter approaching toward me, I realized from the sound it was approaching the position of my drone when it was yet about 800 meters from my position, so, about 400 meters from my drone...I dropped down to about 100 ft and directed the drone towards my position, clearing immediately the area... Any air vehicle has little chances to spot a drone before it is too late....

My understanding a pilot should have a spotter when working under part 107. This issue requires more information regarding this kind of strike.

@JoseArrom

6 ай бұрын

It’s not the law in the USA in these circumstances.

it is frightening ! I normally fry my mini 3 drone higher than that, Thanks for sharing the information so we'll be vigilant

This is why I always have a second device running an ADSB app to keep an eye on what’s around.

The drone pilot was looking at his screen at the time, not the drone. In the country I live in all drone operators must keep their drone in constant visual sight at all times. If you are using FPV or looking at a screen you must also have a separate spotter to keep the drone in visual contact..

Having A VO would have helped the UAV pilot in this situation.

I haven't even watched this video yet... but I also have been flying fpv when a helicopter came from nowhere at very low level! A private helicopter. Luckily flying fpv usually at low level anyway, and being able to descend extremely quickly myself.

Pausing at 2:33 - props to the Sheriff's office for doing the media release statement in a nuetral but informative manner, not the often seen in this knee-jerk 'drone is evil' time. Just known facts stated, and the link to the safety campaign.

Sometimes a low flying motored paragliders passes by. It is rare. Flying around 80 meters up. Kinda crazy when I see them doing that over the town and river. At least they are loud. I like to film the sunset and sunrise sometimes. I have the cheap propellers on a 240 gram mini 2 se so hopefully those can not cut strings.

This will be interesting, I live in the area and fly near there often. If the drone pilot was at 180 ft he would need an actual waiver. The area in question has automatic LAANC approval of 50ft. And it is near several 0ft areas, as it is in the final approach to Daytona International Airport and is less than 1/2 mile from the runway.

I fly over a couple bodies of water where seaplanes occasionally takeoff or land. It's actually surprising how fast they're on you - you no sooner hear them coming over the treetops before they're in your airspace. And that's in a very open, spacious area with great VLOS. I haven't had any close calls, but I don't always have time to land my drone, either, especially if it's over the water. Sometimes the best I can do it ensure I'm not in their direct path, bring it down to an altitude of 10 feet and hover. I can definitely imagine how a small helicopter flying in an urban environment at a low altitude wouldn't be noticed until the last minute.

In rural Iowa, the vast majority of our Air Tractors are flying without ADSB equipped. Given their spray routes have them hitting several fields in a general area, they'll hit one then jump a mile or two over to another one at 100-300 feet above the ground. We had a close encounter with one arriving and dropping down our hillside at about 50 feet as they were spraying the valley floor across the road from our farm. ADSB must be made mandatory and travel over 1 mile, under 300' needs to be reconsidered for permitting via airspace authorization.

This is why a visual observer is important

Using the address on the press release, the incident occurred a minimum 1500 feet outside of Daytona Interantional airport property and 2200 feet from runway 7L a 10,000' x 150' main runway. There were likely the sound of other aircraft present, but not extremely close. Unless the pilot was taking off or landing off of airport property there is no way he should have struck a drone at 180 feet. Street view shows the place to be a storage facility or perhaps a small business park. The helicopter had no business being that low that far from the airport. The 1000' over buildings and people rule should apply unless he also had a special permit.

Sad it happened - I’ve had two occasions when I’ve encountered helicopters - each time I heard it and lowered the drone to 10m and waited for the helicopter to fly clear and then continued my flight(s)- surely if a noisy site then having nearly constant eyes on the drone would have been prudent or perhaps a spotter would have been able to give the drone operator advance warning

Not judging here. But if i ever hear a light plane or helicopter, i reduce height as much as possible or land immediately. In seven years i have been flying i only encountered two light planes and one helicopter near me when flying. But they were flying a much higher altitude and i was no threat to them. I still lowered my drone to about twenty metres and waited for them to pass. Thanks for the info Sean.

When flyinga drone on a call i try to have an assist checking an ADSB app for helicopters in the broader area heading my way. Would be much more helpful if all manned flights would broadcast. Some newer drone have ADSB in and can help with that.

It was crazy no doubt! Not far from where I live. The drone pilot was shooting a construction site near Daytona Intl Speedway! Hopefully everything works out in this matter

The police ought to check if the helicopter had anyone using a Drone ID app.

We have had a few drone impacts on helicopters now including directly on to rotors without major incidents. While not have to try our best to avoid incidents surely a reassessment of severity of outcomes is needed.

There has to be a maximum set on drones and a minimum set on helicopters and low flying fixed wing aircraft in terms of altitude. Drones are growing exponentially.

I'm a fairly new Part 107 certificate pilot as well as a rated Private Pilot in the USA. The one recurring practice test questions I noticed specifically mentioned who gives way to whom when UAV meets manned helicopter in the area. It's 100% on UAV pilot to give way to manned traffic. Also, there are specific rules that require UAV pilot to see and know aircraft position, altitude, and attitude while airborne. Unless the helicopter was racing into this landing, then the UAV pilot was not maintaining a close enough watch on the aircraft. Should have had a VO.

@JtMack750

6 ай бұрын

100% correct I am also 107 certified, manned aircraft always has the right of way no question

@Stefan_Boerjesson

6 ай бұрын

Being a former pilot flying lots of VFR Your post sounds sound and correct. VFR is based on "See and be seen". Does it really work? I'll say no, not as the paragraph makers want it to. The radio communication is the base for knowing about other aircraft in the area. That gives information and tips in what direction to look. Was once flying VFR at some 1500 feet, heading 0 degrees, having a flight plan but in not controlled airspace. During the flight a group of planes were flying at a heading of 270 degrees, on the way out of the country. (Their radio talking showed not too much experience.) The "civil" controller called me and asked me to get down to 500 feet, to be safe! I did. Flying drones for a year, a few tmes in controlled airspace, it has happend that the air traffic controller called me on the mobile and told he wanted me down due to an oncoming helicopter activity in "my area". No problem having minuts to get back home and the copter was starting up, 15 minutes away. Civil helicopters might land anyware, having the landowners permission. Then there are police and resque copters that can come at any time, at any place. It's a not an easy matter...

@K3m0n

6 ай бұрын

ADS-B/Air Sense is MUST to all drone....

@pdtech4524

6 ай бұрын

​@@K3m0nEven 25g whoops flying below tree top level? ⚠️😳🤔😲

@Stefan_Boerjesson

6 ай бұрын

@@K3m0n Could You outline that for a foreigner?

This happened last year in my country the Philippines with a drone flying within the restricted 10km aerodrome (less than 5k from the busiest airport in the ph) hit the props of a heli while civil aviation inspectors were on board.

@PiDsPagePrototypes

5 ай бұрын

Well, that'll have given them accurate crash data experience,.... ;)

I run adsb-unfiltered on my phone while flying. Usually get my spotter to watch it for me.

I think a major thing the FCC & CAA can take away from this close up, real-world direct strike between a critical element of a helicopter and a large consumer drone, way heavier than the sub 250 gm models that are coming under increasing restrictions, is how little actually happened. The chopper didn't crash; no one was hurt. A (albeit expensive) dent to the chopper and the drone is destroyed. Cars collide every day. We don't regulate them out off the roads. The CAA and FAA show such continual paranoia and over-regulation of UAS despite no actual serious incidents. This is actual evidence of how rare and little risk most small consumer drones are.

@Geeksvana

5 ай бұрын

100% agree. Paranoia should not dictate regulation.

The helicopter does rides from the flea market. People pay for rides from the flea market to overfly the Daytona International Speedway or a trip to the beach. I has operated for many years. It was either taking off or returning to land. The flea market is underneath the Daytona beach airports class C airspace. It is only about a mile from one of the airports runways.

I wonder how much damage a bird the size of the drone would do?

I live within a military low flying area in Somerset and I have noticed that RAF aircraft particularly seldom use their transponders during the day and rotary, Army, RN and RAF, never at night. The other day as I was preparing to fly an RAF Chinook - an aircraft with a distinctive noise signature - literally appeared over a nearby hill less than 200m away at less than 200ft, based on my later estimation of size, distance, angle of sight etc, and would have been directly in my flight path had I been in the air. I had checked both visually, aurally and on various apps before my intended flight and found no indication of any flights in the area. Terrain masking is not an uncommon issue and it gives a drone pilot no time at all to do anything but chop the power and pray. Given that there were no NOTAMs in place at the time what is one expected to do? Friends have also encountered this problem with military aviation in other areas, with no prior warning, no NOTAMs etc, allowing zero chance to decide on aborting a flight or taking avoiding action. Using transponders all the time, apart from when flying in a strictly operational role, should be mandatory in order to minimise risks. I can well understand how the drone pilot in this incident might easily have been unaware of a helicopter in his vicinity until a collision occurred. What are your views on this?

@flyerh

6 ай бұрын

The clue is in the name,”Transponder” (Transmission/ Response) The way it works is ATC send out a radar initiated interrogation signal.A transponder equipped aircraft ( Not all aircraft are equipped) when receiving the signal transmit a respond signal that includes a selected four digit number and altitude data. The problem with low flying aircraft is they are sometimes too low to receive the radar signal from ATC so the transponder does not send out its signal. This is very common when surrounded by high ground/mountains.On occasions I have been at 1000 ft agl and had to climb another 500 ft for ATC to see my squark. It also impedes TCAS as that equipment relies on other aircraft responding signals.

Remember that the helicopter blades are about the worst place the drone could have hit. The blades are what keeps it in the air even in autorltation. So the repairs or teplacement will need to be to the highest standard.

Any screen recording in the drone controller? The drone camera, of course interesting.

I think it's 50-50 fault. There should have been a NOTAM that said drone operation in area. Heli Pilot should have known that. On the other hand Drone pilot should have had a VO, and been more aware of his surroundings.

In the not-so-distant future news organizations will start using drones for obvious cost reasons, this likely will increase risks to collisions will news\police helichopters involved covering the same events. Overall, the misuse and accidents will lead to more laws egulations about drone use. Here in the US, there will always be a few that want no restrictions what-so-ever, much those who want to be able buy high powered weapons without any training or restrictions. Most people will want laws egulations that provide reasonable safety and privacy.

Good morning Sean and thank you for your content. I think as you mentioned, these occurrence's of consumer drone incidents with manned aircraft are a rarity and I think in this situation, there are arguments for either parties being at fault. On one hand, if the reports are true, that there was possibly registration of drones flight in the area, then the helicopter pilot should have had this information and been cautious of this fact. Plus the helicopter pilots low flight, would surely have increased his cautiousness. I am no expert on manned aircraft or what their training entails (I suspect quite intense), but surely now adays, drone pilots are flying legally at this sort of height, and you would have thought the copter pilot would have to be more vigilant. Although my "initial" support is for the drone pilot, I do not understand how the drone pilot would not have heard or seen, not necessary the largest, but a pretty large helicopter close by. If it were me and I heard a helicopter (which he must have heard it well before is reached his drone), my finger would be poised over the altitude stick, ready to bring the drone down from it current height (regardless of how high he was actually flying). Therefore, after consideration, if I was forced into picking who I thought was to blame, it would have to be the drone operator. I just cant imagine not hearing or seeing the helicopter, well before it was too late and especially if the airspace was potentially in use by manned aircraft.

@pjbj3370

5 ай бұрын

Cant blame the drone operator completely helicopter pilot was not flying at the proper Agl, and the drone operator failed to have a spotter while not maintaining vlos. Aircraft flying that low don't have the actual air space in order for the sound waves to travel down and be heard they basically sneek up on you. I am sure the drone pilot was focused on his job and assumed if he did hear the helicopter that the helicopter was flying at his proper altitude

Just wondering What is the chance that drones can have a TCAS system?

For such a situation with low flying helicopters appearing very quickly in sight, presumably the way forward is for drones to have onboard radar and a collision avoidance system like ACAS ? Such a system wouldnt use much power I guess because even bicycles can have radar now (though they are limited in direction - this would have to be 360 degrees in 3d). Could it be fast enough ?

@squaddingquads

6 ай бұрын

This I can agree with, how incredibly useful would this be to have all other air traffic on the dji map for example, I know it'd be too much for some people but for those who want it it'd be great 😊

@flyerh

6 ай бұрын

TCAS relies on a transponder equipped aircraft receiving a ATC radar interrogation signal then sending a response signal. If an aircraft in the vicinity is not transponder equipped or too low or far away from the ATC radar signal the TCAS will show nothing.

That particular helicopter runs tours out of the Daytona beach flea market so it was likely either taking off or landing when the collision occurred with the drone.

@RailBuffRob

6 ай бұрын

I recall there being another video of a helicopter being used for the same purpose. In that video the drone was at 300 feet above a beach and the helicopter flew underneath the drone. In that case the helicopter pilot was found to be flying far lower than he was allowed to in that location.

@2Bluzin

6 ай бұрын

I disagree, I see helicopters all the time taking risks by flying low over a beach just to give their customers a more dramatic experience. It's not an emergency, it's not takeoff or landing, they are bending the rules because there are no consequences for doing so.

Perfectly clear if you're flying in a direction watch where you're going.. because when I'm traveling down the road and I hit a pothole and get a flat tire I don't get to go after the city I pay for that out of my pocket

I did get an advert whilst watching. Can’t remember what as I switch off mentally.

Regardless of permissions obtained or NOTAM issued, the ultimate responsibility of collision avoidance is that of the pilots. Additionally, the right of way rules specificy who should give way to whom, thetefore a drone must give way to manned aircraft at all times.

First video I’ve seen of yours. Nicely done! I was struck by the comment saying the drone had to have come from above because the downwash would have blown him away. Not necessarily. If the helo was in full forward flight past translational speeds, the wash is all trailing the aircraft. So even with a light drone, if the approach was anywhere from the front it would not feel anything until impact.

I'm guessing seeing the backdrop that's the last time Banksy gets invited to the geeksvana Xmas party

I think the faa should find a way to make the airspace you request a NOTAM for is active and live. Notifying any aircraft approaching it and the uav pilot. Much like an incident between two manned aircraft. I believe the idea is to make a safe flight for everybody.

Whether or not we agree with it, drone pilots need to understand that the current regs say the drone pilot must ALWAYS s give way and not interfere with manned aircraft, even with a LAANC authorization. As a former helicopter pilot, I can tell you from personal experience that it's a myth that manned aircraft are rarely below 500', especially helicopters. ATC often instructs helos to remain well below traffic pattern altitude to separate them from faster FW traffic, and often times helos are doing low level work (power line inspection, radiological surveys, departing hospitals, etc.). It's also a myth that we'll hear the helo in time to react and get out of it's way. Tour operators giving rides near state fairs, race tracks, etc. are often be well below 500'. Additionally, ADS-B is often turned off for many Law Enforcement operations and military as well.

How about drone pilots employ ADSB-in to watch for air traffic electronically?

The helicopter was flying too low, he could have easily hit power lines at that level or rigging. Take off or landing at that level.

Dang! Just missed the live event by minutes... maybe next time!

Even if you hear a helicopter you're not at the altitude to visually see what dramatic moves can be made to divert an accident 150 ft in the air without being up there so it's clear that the pilot of the aircraft is the only one able to determine what maneuver should be made to divert a collision

Now I'm anything but an expert when it comes to drones and the laws, but when I was learning how to fly a drone and all the different airspaces that we have to navigate, I was always told that when it comes down to it, the Uav ALWAYS has to give passage for the manned aircraft because the UAV is always more maneuverable than the manned aircraft. Again, that's just what I was always told.

Helicopters routinely fly below 500 directly over our (very obvious) RC AMA club field - while we are actively flying. Regardless of any rules, and even if at 500', it's ridiculous that a heli pilot would even risk flying that close. Also... Florida!

If the Helicopter was taking off or landing, it would have a reason to be under 400ft. As no explanation has been put forwards, it looks like a Maverick move by the pilot to go down into drone space. If drones can obey 400ft, SO CAN TRAINED PILOTS.

FAA on Con calls with industry pronounces LAANC as "lance".

There need to be more clear boundaries for non emergency helicopters .even when I stay below the altitude limit for an area a helicopter can just randomly roll up on me out of nowhere and I pretty much haft to bail out it's pretty much like a motorcycle driving in the bicycle lane imo . yeah, you could do it. but you're also putting other occupants at risk for a crash. that being said DGI is definitely on their game when comes to safety. I have always been able to see a helicopter or small plane approach on the air Sense feature

I dont know the rules for helicopters but seems strange to me that it was flying near a flea-market and therefore potentially near/over a group of people.

Small helicopters and even large ones can come up quickly and could be hard to see from the drone operators perspective. Taking evasive action could even put the drone in the path of the aircraft. Drones aren't that nimble. Perhaps radio calls might have helped?

What the hell happened to remote I.D. transmission signal required by FAA? Supposedly implemented to prevent these types of incidents? I guess, more rules don’t necessarily work.

@Paiadakine

6 ай бұрын

Postponed till March 2024

Could the drone pilot be deaf or hard of hearing? Apologies if this has been suggested before? I have tinnitus and it's amazing how much loud noise becomes unhearable because your body learns to switch off to the constant tinnitus noise.

Our ears become finely tuned to incoming aircraft and you'd think you could hear an incoming heli easily. No so. A couple of years ago I was flying automated agritech surveys with my eBee every week during the summer in the East of England, sometimes in a MATZ and sometimes in Class G. So we regularly had to contact the Lakenheath for permissions and low level activity in the area. Despite all that, my natural risk averseness and an ADS-B receiver, I didn't hear 2 Apaches at < 200ft whistle by, playing their important games. Not landing, just buzzing around and then buzzing off. I know the military can do what they like, but even if I'm flying within the regs I know who'll get it in the neck if there's an incident.

The positive out of this is that Drones are very Safe and this incident underlines this .

Glad there were no injuries or catastrophic damage to the helicopter, I guess this was going to happen sooner or later even if both pilots were following the rules this could still happen. It will remind us all to be mindful when flying our drones.

@skysurferuk

6 ай бұрын

I think it would be mindful of full sized pilots to remember the airspace below 500' is shared, and has been for many decades.

I was flying my mini 2 and was about 150'. I heard a helicopter and then got a warning saying Manned aircraft in immediate vicinity I immediately went down to 50' and stayed until the helicopter left. I can see where you might be so zoned in you wouldn't hear the aircraft but the warning on the screen was very noticeable ..

@tomeauburn

6 ай бұрын

I have not seen one while flying my mini 2. I didn't think it supported it.

@mrbrent62

6 ай бұрын

@@tomeauburn the fly app does and it knows where you are. I’ve got a 4 with the controller 2 and it must use some communication because I don’t tether to my phone but it has remote ID

@tomeauburn

6 ай бұрын

@@mrbrent62 maybe the smart controller does but I have to use a phone or tablet. Mine doesn't do remote ID unless I used a Modual I just bought for it. I heard the 3 and 4 does have it

It's 2024, why don't all aircraft have a networked warning system for deconflicting, including drones? Both the drone operator and helicopter pilot should have gotten a warning about each other's presence on their screens, and an alert when they got close. They both have transponders, and yet there's no system to integrate them into a proper alerting protocol.

Thank you for helping keep things in perspective. Yes, it isn't good it happened. At all. And having seen the RPIC's report and COA involved, I can say mistakes were made. But this was human error, and we need to make sure things are kept in perspective. It's all about acceptable levels of risk. And with millions of flights and millions of hours in the air with drones, and absolutely zero fatalities involving modern UAS, it's a very safe mode of transportation. UTM is happening. And we need all aspects of the aviation industry, both manned and unmanned, at the table. It will happen. And yes, it was a professional drone pilot. He had flown there once each for the last 9 weeks. Mistakes were made.

@airadaimagery692

6 ай бұрын

Did you mean to say, he had flown there once, Or once a week for the last 9 weeks?

@VicMossPhotography

6 ай бұрын

@@airadaimagery692 yes, once a week for the last 9 weeks. I must have written too fast.

@airadaimagery692

6 ай бұрын

@@VicMossPhotography thanks!

Shouldn’t the Robbie pilot been aware of the NOTAM that a drone was working the area? The drone was limited to 200’ AGL, what was his excuse for being under 500’?

This was in the US, I'm an EU guy, but it will be interesting to follow what the aircrash investigation will tell. Keep monitoring what follows!

When you post your flight with the B4UFly app, does it notify the aircraft in the area? I always try to post when I fly, I feel like it’s supposed to go to someone.

I'm not sure if this is something that also could affect this issue, but I almost never hear anyone talk about it: How come that the DJI drones always mark their starting point as 0 meters up in the air, while airplanes and helicopters most of the time measures the hight above sea level? That means that, if I start my drone on top of a hill/mountain that is 100 meters above the sea level, and ascend 100 meters, the drone is really 200 meters above the sea level. And yet, that is the only measurement that I as a drone pilot have to go by? So if I am in a zone where I can only go up to 50 meters with my drone, but I start it on the top of a 100 meter hill, I am actually at 150 meters height. What do you or other drone pilots think about that issue?

@CrusaderSports250

4 ай бұрын

You can only go from your start point, one of the "height" problems is when you fly off a cliff, or out from a slope and suddenly your vertical height is way more. As you stated height from sea level would never work inland.