These days youtubers (especially in crafting) have such advanced equipment that I always feel like I just picked up a stick and a rock in the field when I look at my tools.

@tlv1117

2 жыл бұрын

All these tools were made by tools that were made by tools.... that were made with sticks rocks and bones.

@pastasuta

2 жыл бұрын

@@tlv1117 yeah but it kinda puts you off

@nope638

Жыл бұрын

Most made the tools with the cheap tools they originally purchased… That’s the point IMO.. Build a Cnc and get a 3d printer and go for it..

@shilohkirby

Жыл бұрын

Wait you guys have rocks? I just have the stick...

@afrodieter8891

Жыл бұрын

@@shilohkirby Carl...the rock it what prints! The stick is...well just a stick.

With a background in engineering, i really enjoy the level of detail and dedication to keeping testing parameters as close to each other as possible.

@Corbot130

Жыл бұрын

Same!

They make threaded inserts for soft wood that have larger threads to hold on with. Have you tried those?

@pastagandalf

3 жыл бұрын

Rampamuffen is what we call them in German.

@Dani_Escalada

3 жыл бұрын

Wood inserts make its way in on the soft wood by pushing and ripping wood fibers, I'm guessing 3D prints would need some kind of thread before installing this types of wood inserts. there are some of those inserts are self-threaded, not sure how the plastic would handle it though.

@MotoCat91

3 жыл бұрын

Image linked below are the things I recently used when building a large workbench out of 70x30mm pine (for top and middle shelf frames + doubled up on legs) and 16mm MDF (for the 2 surfaces) As I've always hated reassembling furniture that just use wood screws and tear themselves apart I went with these instead, nice and secure and can easily separate major parts without wearing out joints. The internal threads are standard M6 metric, while the outer section are effectively cutting blades with a 2.5mm pitch. Drilled a 7mm hole, then with a 6mm hex key and plenty of downward pressure, drove these things in. media.bunnings.com.au/Product-800x800/dd209542-6cb2-4293-aa97-6cc71baf2bdf.jpg Good shit, can recommend 👍

@drumkommandr9779

3 жыл бұрын

At the scale that those huge wood threads are, there wouldn't be a difference in force between the insert thread moving in the print, and the raw printed threads failing. Source: tried it with ABS to fix a table

@Si-Al-Ti

3 жыл бұрын

@@pastagandalf in swedish too! I thought the guy in the store was joking first lol

another data point to consider: heat set inserts on the opposite side of M3 screw entry (like the second hex nut case)

@Kineth1

3 жыл бұрын

I was just thinking this also!

@philipsommerton4280

3 жыл бұрын

or heated inserts screwed in perhaps rather than pushed may retain more strength

@MikesterF1

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, this is how I install my threaded inserts especially ones with a shoulder. I also use the minimum clearance around the screw which will then pull the bottom of the threaded insert onto another shoulder in the part.

@suivzmoi

3 жыл бұрын

i would also like to know. nut rear pocket shear strength is actually off the charts since the failure mode is non shear related (this appears to be unique situation for thin materials with not much thickness above the nut). rear pocket insert would be interesting. it should give a slight boost from the lip of material above the insert. for thin materials the amount of boost you can get will be tiny (looking at the diagram on 10:45). if you have thicker materials i bet you can get more strength by just using a longer insert than trying to mount it from the back. also it is more troublesome to install it this way as you need a drill a pilot hole from the front and a larger blind hole from the back instead of just pushing it in from the top with a hot iron.

@smitcher

3 жыл бұрын

Possibly another point to consider is undersized rear pockets with nut pushed in with heat. Solves the issue of tolerance too. Perhaps buff the nut on the grinder for a fraction on all sides.

I always use square nuts (Vierkantmutter) and they have never failed. A hex nut can round over its housing which is more difficult using a square one. Helicoil and any other sort of insert don't have enough meat in the much weaker plastics that are able to be printable. I would rather have a look at what is available for woodworking than for any metal repair. Regards, Etna.

@chasenichole813

3 жыл бұрын

Try an economy t-nut for even better results--it is an oblong shape so your turnout torque and pull out force is greater.

@Etna.

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I knew about t-nuts but not about the economy ones. I'll check them out. Regards, Etna.

@StevenHoober

Жыл бұрын

@@chasenichole813 +1000. Weld nuts I always call them, but SO much hardware out there, I never understand why so much plastic stuff (molded or printed) uses what they can find at the local hardware store when they resort to metal. Don't gripe about say torque-out due to substrate: fix it!

@sealpiercing8476

Жыл бұрын

Haha you could even use triangular nuts which ought to work even better due to reduced cam-out and wider load footprint

@Flumphinator

Жыл бұрын

@@sealpiercing8476 if we’re reducing the number of sides of the shape, let’s just go straight down to circles! Wait… hmm.

Insert research is DEFINITELY one of the things that I can use to improve my designs the most. Also, it teaches us what hardware to buy and what to throw out. Thanks!

@alialtinel2960

3 жыл бұрын

why don't you find threaded inserts enough? Even forcibly screwing the material seems to work for me

@nefariousyawn

3 жыл бұрын

@@alialtinel2960 Depends on the application, I assume. If the threads between two parts is the point of failure under a specific load, and you require more strength, it is worth improving that method of assembly. Like when joining wood, sometimes you use nails, sometimes screws, and sometimes glue, depending on the required strength.

One important one I feel you missed, was when insert the threaded insert from the opposite side of the bolt insertion. The pull out test as well as torque would probably be even higher as then it also takes in some compression forces.

@Kineth1

3 жыл бұрын

I was just thinking this also!

@JAYTEEAU

3 жыл бұрын

Was thinking the same

@SpartaCrafter

Жыл бұрын

really surprised he missed this

Hi Stefan, I'm a chemical engineering student who just finished a course in rheology for non-newtonion fluidic flow, focusing on polymers. You said to reach out if we knew something about polymers, and I can say with confidence that it's all just magic and made-up math to torture students (I have no idea how I passed that course - I barely know linear algebra so we weren't even speaking the same language). Always happy to help! Keep up the great videos!

@Kalvinjj

3 жыл бұрын

Even metals and isotropic materials are sort of hellish to predict already, going with completely anisotropic stuff like 3D printed parts, on polymers at that, definitely brings hell to the equation. I'm not so sure we can really predict the parameters through the Von Misses criteria as well for anisotropic stuff, didn't yet have classes on that (I think that's even an optional for me, the normal ones are mandatory... Mechanical engineering sure shares hell with you chemical engineering guys).

I have waited ages for somebody to investigate exactly this! Danke Stefan!

@CNCKitchen

3 жыл бұрын

Bitteschön! Hope you enjoy.

Thanks so much for your great efforts and information. As a person who works at a mechanical test lab and who enjoys 3D printing I really appreciate all of the work that you do.

Detailed and very informative as usual! I couldn't help wanting wood, sheet metal, and proper plastic screws in the comparison. Yes, I know you can't test everything all the time, and yes, I get that at least some of the point was a "reusable" fastener, but I use sheet metal "tapping" screws and wood screws all the time and they can cycle quite a few times before they strip PLA.

Great work! I usually do square completely enclosed inside the print by inserting them during the print job. I did this first with hex nuts and had several cases where the nut started to rotate - same as you observed. Never happened with square nuts so far.

Maybe square nuts can withstand more torque.

@coced

3 жыл бұрын

a round thing will always have more surface area

@MrSweetHart6976

3 жыл бұрын

I have used square nuts in other applications and yes it can withstand more rotational torque embedded into a part, especially if its a thicker walled square nut compared to the thread diameter size, which they do make

@Christian-cz9bu

3 жыл бұрын

I would think so, as it's the larger flat contact surface creating more leverage against motion, the hex nut has smaller flat areas.

@ddegn

3 жыл бұрын

@@Christian-cz9bu Prusa printers use square nuts if the're being inserted in pockets. They use hex nuts only when the bolt passes through the entire part.

@ddegn

3 жыл бұрын

I recently (this week) built a Prusa MK3S. I think the way they use nut inserts makes a lot of sense. They use square nuts when the nut is inside a part.

I use Heli Coils all of the time. They are GREAT! I find that they allow repeated assembly/disassembly without damage to the threads.

@colemanbecker1392

3 жыл бұрын

I used 2mm helicoils in a part for a Lulzbot flexy extruder to hold the cooling fans. It worked out well.

@LanceThumping

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like that is the real benefit of any sort of threaded insert with 3D parts. As shown here you don't get much of a strength benefit but it's very easy to damage threads in plastic and the inserts will prevent that. (My trick to preventing damage to threads: I've developed a habit of always screwing the bolt the wrong way until I get a definite drop into place before tightening down. That way I can be certain that I'm going into the threads instead of cutting new ones.)

@rpavlik1

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this is why I used inserts. I've got the very cheap heat set inserts that are mostly just so I can disassemble and reassemble. Though, in at least some projects I can insert them from "behind" (so they'd have to pull thru) which might help pullout strength a little.

@EvileDik

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly the reason I use inserts, I would imagine the any extra strength imparted is purely due to an increase in contact area between the threaded part and the plastic. Thus Helicoils have the least effect as they are analogous to simply using a bigger bolt. The heated inserts slightly improve this (for tensile) because they actively form a collar of plastic between the knurls. In a similar way that a captive nut relies on the plastic facing the nut to provide the strength and has no intrinsic holding strength unless the nut hole is small enough to provide an interference fit .

@liamsmith8518

3 жыл бұрын

@@LanceThumping I learnt to do the same thing

Hi Stefan, as always I love seeing actual engineering data and fundamentals being applied to DIY AM. I wanted to comment on the embedded nut technique and the cone shaped deformation. This case is not like the others because it is not longer a threaded joint and can be treated like a bolted joint where the nut acts as a washer, which is why you see the frustum shaped crater where the nut pulled out. Awesome video as always, keep up the great work!

Very good detailed tests Stefan. Hats off to you ! thanks for your dedication of exploring this matter. I ve definitely learned a lot

Man, talk about timing. I was just needing this information and had ordered some of the nuts for a task when my direct drive arrives for the Ender 5 Pro. THANK YOU

@CNCKitchen

3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome.

You perfectly explained why your compressive load calcs were low, to do calculations about the area that accepts stress in bolted connections, look up 'frustrum' calculations for bolted joints. Thanks for the vid!

Thanks for doing these tests! You're saving a lot of people a lot of initial testing time!

Check out our *CNC Kitchen products* at cnckitchen.store/ or at resellers www.cnckitchen.com/reseller and on AMAZON (EU) geni.us/s8rYtQ

@grindel80

3 жыл бұрын

Wie wäre es denn man mit ganz normalen Spax?! Müsste doch nach allen was Du erzählt hast noch krasser halten. Meddl Off, Frank Müller

@KeithOlson

3 жыл бұрын

Two nut types that should perform *significantly* better are wingnuts and t-nuts (pronged, flat plate, and for extrusions). The wingnuts primarily offer a 'vertical' surface that will resist torque, with a fairly narrow 'horizontal' surface. T-nuts, on the other hand, primarily offer a horizontal surface to reduce pullout, though the oblong shape will offer more torque resistance. Both the wingnuts and pronged t-nuts would require a special, complicated pocket, while the extrusion or *VERY* cheap flat plate versions just need a rectangular cutout. (For example, the OpenBuilds Tee Nuts use a 2x10x15mm plate and there is a two-hole version.) As well, flat plates are easy to imbed within a print; you just need to pause the printer and move the head out of the way while you place the hardware. (FWIW, *any* piece of metal can be drilled and tapped for an M3 hole, allowing endless options for holding parts together. Perhaps comparing steel with aluminum would be helpful--not to see which is stronger, but to see if aluminum is strong enough for most requirements, seeing as how it is *FAR* easier to drill and tap.)

@raxiusbloom2525

3 жыл бұрын

Guten tag! I use square nuts for my inserts and have found that they perform much better in torque load than hex nuts. The added surface area also helps them resist pullout forces more than hex. It would be great if you could test them too the next time you revisit this experiment!

@carsca

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah! Shared! Did you share the project of the DIY tensile strength machine?

@icebluscorpion

3 жыл бұрын

Was wäre eigentlich passiert wenn man zusätzlich Unterlag schreiben eingebettet hätte?... Ich mein bei der letzten Methode an der M5er mutter und das beidseitig mit größer werdender Unterlag Fläche der Unterlag Scheiben? Hätte es ein praktischen Nutzen wenn man 2mm aluplatten nimmt und Sandwich mäßig das mit den Plastik verschrauben tut?

Thank you for the thorough analysis and excellent exposition, Stefan.

One other insert to test is called a Keensert, preferably the heavy duty ones (they are thicker). They have larger coarser outer threads then a Helicoil and have metal side stakes you hammer in to prevent rotational spinning. I use them all the time in heavy duty applications at work, and by far are the strongest "thread inserts" you can use

@Kineth1

3 жыл бұрын

I would like to see this tested also.

@silvermodak

3 жыл бұрын

Keenserts are wildly expensive compared to the inserts being tested here. Absolute overkill for plastics too.

Immidiately ordered threaded inserts after the last video. I have a pretty big 3d printed case for the hardware of my 3d printer. Before it was pretty wobbly because most screws were worn out. Now its rock solid. So thank you very much ;) I was not aware of these inserts before!

I love these types of videos of yours. Good job! It would be really interesting to see a comparison between different types of gluing parts together, compared with screwing parts together.

This is great content! In my mind’s eye I see a combination of a bottom pocket for the nut and a side pocket for a washer being very strong. I imagine for accurate testing the test block would need to be larger.

Dang this is the video I needed right now for my project

Danke für deine Aufarbeitung!! Stand bei einem Projekt genau vor dieser Frage 👍🏻

I have been following your channel for a while now. In fact, one od your videos from 2020 is what sparked my investigation and about 1.5 years of lab work for testing the ability to sanitize and clean 3d printed parts for food and medical applications. I finally got the paper published too. So heres to you my friend:)

This seems like the kind of thing where a washer would make a huge difference. Have you done a video on simply putting a washer between the nut and the printed part?

@virtualxip

3 жыл бұрын

I second that. Imagine using the slot method and adding another wider slot for a washer. Basically a slot shaped like a T. That would spread the force over a bigger area. I think this could win over everything else while still being basically the cheapest method. Needs a little bit more space of course.

@DracoOmnia

3 жыл бұрын

For ease of design simply having a washer sized depression on the end of your through hole at a depth to accommodate the nut would be easiest. But I agree, the washer would increase the surface area significantly (assuming it's larger than the nut) and would yield best results.

@pastagandalf

3 жыл бұрын

Good call. Have used this before and it seems to really help distribute the load.

when possible, I use the bottom pocket process: Very strong Thanks for the time you spend doing those videos!

Threaded are my favorite, strong, and super satisfying to put in!

Use heat set inserts on the opposite side just as you did for the hexnut. This yielded fantastic results for me. Also for the hexnuts, make slanted walls, the nut will pull itself into the material on first use, and make it not fall out after.

I wish I had found this channel years ago. So informative and well done.

very nice comparison! I'd recommend sticking to physical force measurement in Newtons again and adding a 2nd scale with kgf 😅 Remform II screws would be also interesting to investigate since their shape is optimized for polymers. They are often used in IM components and available for different ranges of elastic modulus (esp. unreinforced/filled and fiber reinforced).

Watching your videos for a long time, and they helped me a LOT!!! THANK YOU! I use the "nut-behind" method usually, because with the inserted I have the "fear" to not fit them in the right (90°) angle (have them at my disposal here but used them until now). Regarding the falling issue with the "nut-behind" method, I sometimes design the part a bit tighter or add two contact "wobbles" to have the polymer hold them in place, with ABS you can dunk the nuts in Acetone and put them in, they'll stay in place. However, i heard that Acetone on ABS affects the polymer property even after completely drying.

Thank you! I've been asking myself the same question for a long time.

impressive thematic that comes across my actual hobbyist designs, you are doing great !

Thank you for posting this video because i had a doubt for a long time about this ❤️

@CNCKitchen

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

love that this video allows me to continue doing things the lazy way, never buying threaded inserts. need it to be strong? put nut in hole. strength not a priority? just screw into a slightly undersized hole. was doing it this way for convenience, and it is so nice to know im not just saving time, im saving money and not compromising my build strength. at least not a significant amount.

Brilliant video as this was my topic of research and I don't need to look elsewhere... Thank you very much CNC Kitchen 🙂

Can you test the nuts by treating them as heated insert? make the hole tighter. Also you can try flanged nuts or square nuts (as already mentioned) Thank you for your great work 😀

@pacomb

3 жыл бұрын

I always use a heat glue gun point to heat insert normal nuts

@kensmith5694

3 жыл бұрын

@@pacomb A cheap soldering iron works too. You want the nut to warm slowly enough that it just reaches the needed temperature goes in place then cools fairly quickly.

@SaHaRaSquad

3 жыл бұрын

You can also easily pull nuts into the hole using a screw. It lets you use very tight tolerances and ensures the nut is aligned perfectly with the screw hole.

Thanks for this data, Stefan. I used to design a lot of aluminum mounting plates at a former job. Helicoils were mainly useful for resistance against galling due to repeated use of a fastener in the hole. As you saw in your tests, they don't really add strength. If we wanted a bit more strength, we would use Keenserts which are kind of like a combination of the Helicoil and your threaded insert that you melted in. The Keenserts go in like a Helicoil but use a bigger threaded hole and then provide the smaller hole for the fastener that you want to use. Bigger threads on the outside equate to a marginal (but still not huge) increase in pull-out strength. They are also a fair bit pricier and availability of small sizes like M3 might be limited likely because the smaller the diameter, the less improvement there will be so there is less demand.

@Kineth1

3 жыл бұрын

I also would like to see Keenserts tested in 3d printed parts, both from the face and from the backside.

@KurtShawRides

3 жыл бұрын

I prefer Timeserts over anything else when doing thread repairs on motorcycles. But plastics would fail during an attempted install because install tool spreads out the sert at the end of it.

Excellent and so accurately precise , thx !

Enjoyed your video. Learned something very useful. Thank you for your comprehensive efforts.

Guten Tag Stefan! Schönes Video. Danke für deine great Arbeit 👍

Stefan, great videos, always! I have been using hex nuts in my prints for a while now. I didn’t think of a side slot. But right from my first try, I’ve been trapping the nuts by using the pause function in ideamaker. Just drop in the nut and resume print!

Great test as always Thanks for sharing👍😀

I love different kinds of inserts so much. They can be a lifesaver and a blessing in a complicated designs. I use heated stuff cause they're more common. Tho only the proper non cheap inserts with the knurls at different angles

unimaginably useful investigation of material properties

Thanks for the great info. Helicoils were new to me. Also, I love your creative subscribe ideas in each video, which might be your thing.

i myself use M4 in all 3d printed things. i found this gives me the grip and strength i need. i also use the threaded inserted you use

I really appreciate your attention to detail and the stress analysis. The criteria you discussed assume very ideal loading conditions and failure modes, so while they do a good job of comparing the thread methods to each other in a relative sense (as you pointed out at 10:56), they don't work so well in the real world. A few other factors that I would enjoy seeing you discuss in the future are stress concentrations (definitely present in the internal sharp corners of the side pocket/nut combo!), failure via crack propagation (which is likely how the two embedded nut samples failed), and finite element analysis (you may be able to get fairly accurate theoretical results!). As always, great video and I look forward to your next one.

Great work and great explanation

there is a "T" nut for wood that could add strength compared to other options. It has spurs that can be heated in from the back to add keying for twist and a large surface area for pull out strength

@pastagandalf

3 жыл бұрын

For Stefan and in German, those are called Einschlagmuttern. So called Rampamuffen might also be worth a try.

@Dani_Escalada

3 жыл бұрын

Are there any t'nuts in M3 screw sizes?

@randomidiot8142

3 жыл бұрын

For the americans that don't understand einschlagmuttern, they're at home depot/hardware stores in various sizes.

@miscbits6399

3 жыл бұрын

@@Dani_Escalada Yes, they're common in aircraft modelling and RC model suppliers usually have them as a stock item

@Dani_Escalada

3 жыл бұрын

@@miscbits6399 awesome!! Thx for the info!

I didnt know I needed to know this. Thank you, great video. 👍👍

Another great scientific test Stephan thank you. Threaded nut and bolt joints are great for parts that you want to be able to take apart again but, for permanent fixing, self tapping or deep threaded screws are the way to go. There's a reason they are used in plastic products. The deep thread cuts into the plastic really well and doesn't pull out like fine metric threads. I would love to see a test on these wood/chipboard/self tapping screws. I'd wager that they would beat all of these at least in the pull test.

Great work and video. Seems like square nuts would have fared slightly better than hex, and square nuts are very popular. The lower cost melt-in nuts are very popular around here due to the cost factor. One technique I often use is to melt the nut into the far side rather than the near side which may help in some cases.

Thank you for one more great topic!

I'm just getting into 3d printing. I love your videos.

I just want to say thank you for videos like this. I have a background in engineering so I want the numbers...not just am opinion. This is perfect.

I just got my first 3d printer. Started learning fusion 360 and I’m working on simple projects to get into the game! You’re videos are very informative for a newbie!

Nice I have been waiting for someone to try this

Greight video, thanks. Much useful information there, but there's one test you missed - threaded insert fitted underside, I use this method frequently and find it to be the best way to use threaded inserts.

I've used helicoil on stripped manifold mounts, I have to admit for that application. They are amazing!

Excellent useful video. My feelings are that you could have gone further by making a second thicker sample for the nut and the printed thread because their strength is geometry dependent -but we can calculate the improvement. My preferred fastener for prints is a wood screw with deep course threads -people refer to them as "deck screws" in the US. "Drywall screws" are very similar but lack rust protection. If you have plenty of depth these screws can achieve impressive strength. As an automotive Engineer I was pitched a bolt for plastics that outperformed machine bolts with inserts. The impressive thing was you could strip them abusively and if you let them cool they still fastened and released with minimal degradation (in nylon 6/6). The design was VERY similar to a deck screw with design rules on the hole. The only negative is that it takes lot of energy to screw (torque and turns) and it is not so obvious when to stop. if you don't have much depth, T-nuts are the way to go. I don't see the point of inserts.

Great work Stefan! Worth mentioning that wire inserts are available in different lengths up to at least 4.5x thread diameter. This should improve their performance on tear out and torque.

@AcTpaxaHeu

3 жыл бұрын

Stress distribution between turns of thread is uneven, the highest amont of load is taken by 3-4 turns, at least for steel nut and bolt, it may differ for polymer, but it still is pointless to lift the thread lengrh so much.

Just yesterday my dad gave me about 20-30 kg of Helicoil inserts and tools. Imagine, what is the first video, I've found, looking for implementation? Yes, it's Yours. Thanks a lot!

@CNCKitchen

3 жыл бұрын

That is awesome! Have fun with it.

For embedded nuts, using half-thickness nuts (which are readily available) would give you some extra depth to load in shear, and useful extra strength if you have little space over the nut. Also, pausing the print at the point the nut can be added lets you make captive nuts at the cost of slightly more annoying printing.

Super-interesting stuff. Great, thanks for posting!

I love the testing you are doing. This is the best way to prove out best practices. Now I'm *SUBSCRIBED.* I assume the ultimate goal is to have a fabrication system that allows the use of screw fasteners that are as strong as they can be. The first thing I thought of is that machine screws are not the best type of fasteners. I would think that the plastic has properties more like wood. I'd love it if you tested a variety of self-tapping fasteners; for example wood screws, sheet metal screws, etc. The deeper threads should hold better in plastic than machine screws. Testing would show if that is correct. The other idea I had was to build in some kind of reinforcement when the part is being printed. Take for example the bottom hex pocket for a machine nut. The design would print the layers deep enough for the hex nut to fit. Then the design would open up a larger concentric pocket deep enough for a large washer (fender washer perhaps) to be inserted. The printer would pause and the operator would place the washers into this embedded pocket. The operator would continue the print and the washer would be covered with the next layers. This would greatly increase the pull-out strength, I think. Last idea: Instead of a hex nut on the bottom, design in a pocket for a blind nut (also known as a tee-nut). This would also give a bigger area of contact to the improve the pull-out strength, perhaps.

Great video continues like this! For a future video, it would be interesting to test the screws for plastics (screws with a larger pitch). To give a reference, for example, "Brossard PT K30x20". Personally since I tried, I use more than screws for plastic.

@OokOokEeek

2 жыл бұрын

I take apart old laser and inkjet printers for parts and have a nice collection of various screws for plastic now. In many cases, I prefer them to machine screws - regardless if the machine screws are anchored bare, with nuts, or with threaded inserts. They don't chew up hole perimeters as much as bare machine screws do. I'd really like to see how their holding strength compares via Stefan's meticulous testing though.

Also to save on time and money I usually use a lot of parts like bolts, nuts and threaded rods that also give a lot of strength to the assembly. I would really appreciate an investigation on this topic and if printing a shell to pour resin in it or any other material gives a mechanical advantage. Again thanks for the amazing content and your efforts are much appreciated.

I've been using PRINTED threads, not straight into material but actual printed threads for years now. No extra tolerances or anything, straight from fusion360 thread function. Those seem to hold perfectly, typically have failure elsewhere in the part, not the threads. Typically use M3, M5 and M6 and on PLA. Atleast the first time you use the thread the bolt can heat up significantly, i would assume this causes some level of annealing on the material as well. Due to the 3d printed thread being ever so slightly undersized it also works as threadlock more or less :)

@mrclown7469

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting thought about the annealing. I wonder if when using holes without printed threads if there would be any gain by inserting a much long bolt than is needed, heating it with something as basic as a cigarette lighter, allowing it to cool, then replacing it with the correct length bolt. Also makes me wonder if the heat used when installing threaded inserts is annealing the plastic and helping with torque out.

@tibo786

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrclown7469 anealing takes why longer than just a few seconds, the molecule chains need time to rearrange

An excellent video. Some notes: 1. square nuts will resist spinout better than hex nuts 2. I think you will find coarser pitch threads will better resist pullout in plastic 3. externally threaded inserts, will outperform Helicoils, due to larger and coarser external threads and increased shear diameter

A drop of some kind of adhesive to hold the nut in place is my favorite solution. Yes, I could fix the tolerances to where I wouldn't need glue when initially placing them, but even a little wear makes that unreliable, and I would need to do that for every kind of filament. Glue is cheap, especially when it doesn't need to be good and is only used by the drop. A temporary shim would also work. Some kind of press-fit nut holder design might work, but its long-term durability would depend on its orientation when printing.

@mjbirdClavdivs

3 жыл бұрын

I was going to recommend a cyanoacrylate adhesive as well. It also sounds like using a washer to spread the force over a greater surface area might also be beneficial.

We recently did pullout certification for 1/4-20 brass threaded brass thread inserts in Type-1 PVC. After doing the required staged static loads at 50, 100, 150 and 250 for 30 seconds each we took each of the 6 sample pieces to failure. To our surprise the average pullout failure averaged 1800 pounds across all six samples with the highest topping out at 2300 pounds. In all cases the failute was in the PVC and the thread insert and bolt were undamaged.

Would have guessed Helicoil would have performed better. I love the analysis, thanks so much!

Very interesting. I am looking at using the press in inserts on a project at work, but using a flanged insert and pressed in from the back side of the part in a hole sized for the length of the insert. That way I am combining the press in insert with the nut on the bottom version. I tested this with some 4-40 inserts in CF nylon with excellent results. Parts printed on a Markforged Onyx One printer.

This is excellent info. Very good job! It would be interesting to see how square nuts and rivet nuts would go through these tests.

Great work, thank you!

I totally support your results i share the same experiences but never bother to due the mats. but its nice to confirm that practical learning also is use full and verified buy the numbers. thanks dud...

Very informative video, thank you! I just started printing 3D parts and have not used metrical screws or inserts yet, but screws for thermoplast which look similar to wood screws but are designed specific for plastic. From what i can say, the right hole diameter is important but i imagine it is not so important as for a metrical screw and i can unscrew/screw quite often, i would not worry about wear as the thread is very willing to receive the screw and the hole has a one time formed thread as the screws are thread forming. There are alot of comany names for these screws, would be cool to see somewhere how they perform as i think they are most of the time more suitable than metrical screws

I use hex nuts in a hex cavity that has a draft from the surface to the circular area slightly larger than the diameter of a matching hex socket head screw ('lofted' in my CAD system). When tightened the nut slightly deforms the cavity compressing the material around it. The nut will no longer "fall" out. It has the added advantage of having recessed cavities where either the screw head or the nut can be used. .... very handy for symmetrical part designs (i.e. split circular clamps).

on smaller parts, i like to model a cavity for a metal nut. then i use the pause at layer feature in cura to momentarily pause the print so i can drop in my nut and resume printing over top of it.

I recently add a pocket, a bit higher than the nut, in my design and point prusa slicer to the end of the pocket. Now I add a color change where the print paused to set in ordinary nuts. After reload the filament the printer continues where it stops before. The nut gets embedded and fixed strong inside. Also prusa slicer (newest version) shows you the expected time to the "color change" an go back to the shop.

Another interesting idea is that with embedded nuts, it can still be possible to embed a washer underneath as well. I would check that out since the nut often failed in compression a washer to spread the force would probably increase it's strength significantly.

Something I did a while back was I set a nut into a square, then pressed that square into the print and printed over the top of it to completely embed the nut inside

You inserted the heat seated nuts from the same side as the pull direction. For a lot of design that's required, if you don't have access to the back side. But I would bet it would perform equal to or better than the nut if it was seated on the far side. Heat seating would also solve the problem of nuts falling out. Design your hex recess for the back side just a touch undersized and heat seat (or just press) the nut in place. Thanks for this. Now I know how to improve my design connections.

Just yesterday my dad gave me about 20-30 kg of Helicoil inserts and tools. Imagine, what is the first video, Iэму found, looking for implementation? Yes, it's Yours. Thanks a lot!

The Mises yield criteria is not a bad choice for these plastics. We normally modify it in order to incorporate a hydro-static sensitivity to account for a lower yield stress in uni-axial tension compared to uni-axial compression, but I guess that shouldn't matter for pure shear. Keep up the good work!

Another brilliant video from CNC Kitchen - I have a part I just designed with a side-pocket for the nut - but there is no reason why it cannot be a nut inserted from the back - so I am going to make a minor redesign to this part and make this change - which should reduce the size of the part as well as strengthening it. :-)

Thank you so much for testing embedded hex nuts! One twist on that topic was to use square nuts. (I think I first heard this from Angus on Maker's Muse maybe?) It seems these are a bit easier to install in a side pockets. I'm guessing it would effectively increase the shear area. Also by increasing the corner angles it should also increase the torque out strength... Possibly? Anyway, thanks for giving us some real world empirical data to work with. As always, it is much appreciated.

As other commenters have already mentioned you should also try square nuts, I have switched to using them for pocket nuts years ago and not only do they seem to support higher loads, they are also easier to insert and to design pockets for. Another option you should test are threaded inserts for wood, which have much coarser outer threads and might work better in plastic, which really is closer to wood than to metal in material properties. For comparison you should also try putting a nut with a washer under it on the back of the part. Another test I would like to see is a comparison of different sized threads, from M2 to M6, with threaded inserts as well as nuts and directly in plastic.

Even after buying heat set inserts, nut pockets are still my go-to for reusable threaded connections. They're quicker to install since I don't need to get my soldering iron out, (usually) not too hard to add in to my designs, and you can even reuse the nuts from other parts. For the problem of loose nuts (hehe) I just put a small drop of CA glue on the side of the nut. It's just enough retention force to hold them in, and might even improve the torque-out strength.

Hi Stefan, the method I use is putting nuts in my print and to keep them in place always make the hole a hair smaller and the nut is inserted with help of my soldering iron, I know the inserts are better but are a bit hard to find in my country and since the main use given by me is to make knobs for my jigs the nuts are almost perfect.

Great video, thank you Stefan. I prefer to insert nuts inside parts during printing, just because I can and it has its “how did you do that” magic 😁.

You can make a frame for your testing machine to test shear strength. Take a "rigid" square frame with hinges at the corners. Rotate it so it is a diamond shape and pull the top and bottom corners apart. You need teeth on the frame and interlocking teeth on the specimen to transfer the shear to the specimen. The shear stress would be the tension force divided by (1.4142 x length of side of square x thickness of specimen). I would be interested in seeing the results. The main assumption is that the compressive force in the horizontal direction generated by the frame would is equal to the tension force. Otherwise the principle stresses would not be equal and the peak shear stress would be some combination of tension and shear. A pure tension specimen (as you tested) has a peak shear of 0.5xT/A (occurring 45 degrees to the axis of the specimen) in combination with a tensile stress of 0.5T/A. The idea is to get rid of the tensile component at peak shear stress when you use the frame. This way, you get a pure shear response.

Great stuff mate 👍🏻

Helicoils, oh how I hate those. Had a client who refurbished an older machine, he had to "fix" over 20 threads with those due to rust and simple wear, they constantly failed so he asked me if I could fix them somehow. I ended up drilling out all those holes, beveling their edges, and then weld in steel tubes to then drill and tap them those to the correct size. But on topic, thanks for these tests. I'm now rather glad that I started building an insert station for my Ruthex inserts, but I might try some more bottom pockets with added geometry if the parts allow for it space-wise. I wonder how it would perform if I add some geometry to add epoxy.

@beanMosheen

3 жыл бұрын

I prefer full thread inserts over helicoils if there's room.

You can insert the threaded inserts by pre-heating the printer nozzle and using the manual Z axis control to push the insert in place with the nozzle. This is a GREAT technique because the temperature of the nozzle is perfect for melting the plastic - and it presses on the insert perfectly straight. That turns those inserts from being a pain to being by *FAR* the easiest approach.