A nice piece. The Hedgehog really was revolutionary. In addition to solving the problem of the sonar blind spot when the destroyer passed over the sub to engage with depth charges, it also eliminated the extreme danger those depth charges posed to their own ship when dropping them. The destroyer had to be running at full speed, otherwise the same hydrostatic wave expected to kill an enemy sub could and often would shatter the destroyers rudder, steering gear and prop shafts. Leaving the ship crippled and easy prey. The Hedgehog let the destroyer put the much smaller explosions well forward of the ship, such that the bow could easily handle any minor shockwaves, instead of taking the force to the rear.

@davidneel8327

2 жыл бұрын

My dad served on, I believe a DE, as a carpenter mate. During a depth charge run an officer asked him why he was forward from his position. About that time the stern lifted out of the water from the depth charge going off. Answered.

@amerigo88

2 жыл бұрын

Incorrect. Considering the exact sane depth charges were used in the same ways by everything from 16 knot Flower class corvettes to 36 knot Fletcher class destroyers, they could not all have been running at the very same "full speed." A very serious problem with depth charges was that a sinking destroyer, DE, corvette, and so on would end up with most of the crew that had abandoned ship dying from concussion as the depth charges of the sinking ship exploded at their preset depth level. I have read of this in many cases. Also, I believe Admiral Jellicoe of WW1 Grand Fleet fame is credited with the development of the depth charge during that war. Before the RN deployed depth charges, the best hope for sinking U-boats was direct fire, ramming, and undersea mines.

@nighttrain1236

2 жыл бұрын

Johnnie Walker's 'creeping attack' already offered a tactical solution to the blindspot. The hedgehog offered a technological solution which in conjunction with other innovations in tactics and technology overwhelmed the U-boats culminating in the slaughter of black May.

@marcusosmaston411

2 жыл бұрын

@@amerigo88 You're quite right there, full speed was nothing like a requirement (and every corvette being one-use-only at 15kt is a bit ludicrous!), and usually ASDIC/sonar performance dropped off a lot with speed so if you barreled around at 35kt you'd not be detecting much anyway. There were some occasions where you could damage yourself, especially dropping a shallow pattern and in shallow water, but that would typically spring your stern glands and cause some shock damage, not shattering the whole propulsion set. I remember USCGC Icarus managed to prang herself fairly badly in shallow water off the US, but not too many other examples.

@dovetonsturdee7033

2 жыл бұрын

@@nighttrain1236 Walker's Creeping attack was only possible when both radar and asdic were accurate enough, but you are right, in that it was an excellent tactical solution. The probability is that, only aware of an escort some distance astern, the U-Boat commander wouldn't have any warning at all of the second escort about to kill him.

During WWII out of 5,174 British depth charge attacks there were 85.5 kills, a ratio of 60.5 to 1. In comparison, the Hedgehog made 268 attacks for 47 kills, a ratio of 5.7 to 1.

@ddegn

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this info.

@MrElliott400

2 жыл бұрын

Does that include Canadian numbers as well? thanks

@allen480

Жыл бұрын

@@MrElliott400 eh?

@meowmur302

10 ай бұрын

How was there a .5, they were brought out of commission?

@Real_Steve_Sharpe

5 ай бұрын

@@meowmur302 A 0.5 kill is awarded when two attackers _(be they aircraft, tanks, ships, riflemen or whichever)_ attack the same target in the same engagement and it can't be determined which one struck the killing blow, so they share the credit between them.

My grand fathers ship, HMS Wellington, had hedgehog fitted. He told me the crew were all very impressed with it and never had any issues.

@voiceofraisin3778

2 жыл бұрын

The problem was that becasue Hedgehog was so badly needed and so innovative it was mass produced, stuck on a lot of warships but there werent enough trained officers who could go round the fleet giving training. Many ships basically got a new weapon and an instruction book. Good ships or technically minded crews learned fast, the less able ones didnt. Add to that rapid installation by dock workers who didnt have a clue what they were doing meant the launchers were misaligned with the ASDIC which added to the fact gunners unaware of the flight and sinking time and the launcheers not being maintained so the swing and aiming gear rusted solid on inept ships meant they launched off rounds, got no bang and assumed the weapon was defective so they lost morale and any urge to use it. Good crews on the sub-hunters tended to be used well, the random convoy escorts tended to be less effective.

@wolfganger7012

2 жыл бұрын

@@voiceofraisin3778 Thankyou ,the piece was a joy to read 👍

@SvenTviking

Жыл бұрын

Moored in the Thames in central London. Grimsby class sloop.

@gayjoebiden

Жыл бұрын

my grand father was the captain of HMS wellington and he told me your grandfather was lying

@jacktattis

4 ай бұрын

@@gayjoebiden and my G/father was the cook and said it was very good.

I'm amused by the fleet clearly being annoyed at USS England getting all the kills, and then having to give in and let them get another.

@daveybernard1056

2 жыл бұрын

It's like the game hogs in War Thunder!

@mikeloghry9521

2 жыл бұрын

YES INDEED SALUTE

My dad served on a destroyer in 1960 and showed me pics of it. He pointed out the hedgehogs on the front. I later made a lego destroyer about four feet long and made sure to add hedge hogs just behind the two sets of five inch turrets in the front. It was a pretty awesome creation.

one of my favourite quotes ever... "the hedgehog.... so called because it looked like the quills of a porcupine" gotta love those muricans!

@martialmusic

2 жыл бұрын

Yup! Muricans, we is! Hah to you fum Texas, podnuh! 😄🇺🇸

@matthewexline6589

4 ай бұрын

The "quote" you're referring to at @0:41 is as follows: "Named for its rows of launcher spigots -which resembled the spines of the creature when devoid of a load- the Hedgehog would ...[]"

@paulnutter1713

4 ай бұрын

@@matthewexline6589 the quote I'm referring to was by a US sailor in a different video......still funny

"Aw Hell. Go ahead, England." Hehehe

@tennesseehomesteader6175

2 жыл бұрын

Apparently the skipper of the England replied by saying "I got some hedgehog right here."

@matthewspry4217

2 жыл бұрын

@@tennesseehomesteader6175 no way

@thedigitalrealm7155

2 жыл бұрын

I'm imagining him saying it in the tone of an exasperated teacher finally letting the class know-it-all answer a question

@lufykaheda9980

2 жыл бұрын

One of many recorded kill steal at ww2

@lancerevell5979

2 жыл бұрын

USS England's envious record makes me proud to have been a DE/FF tincan sailor myself. The escorts did the tough grueling jobs other bigger ships didn't want to bother with. We were the "pickup ships", getting all kinds of wierd tasks assigned.

You forgot the shaped charge aspect, with a small munition sized to make a hole through both outer hull and pressure hull, with a space of about 3ft between them. You also omit Capt Johnny Walker's creeping attack, where one ship observes the sub on her sonar and directs another ship by radio into position for a hedgehog attack. The attacking ship can stay slow and covert.

My grandfather was a Tin Can Sailor (the nickname for sailors serving on Destroyer Escorts) and he operated one of these! I could never find a good video on them until now. Thank you!!!

@tubularfrog

2 жыл бұрын

My Dad was also a Tin Can sailor (as was my older brother later) and spoke approvingly of the hedgehog weapon system. He also said that it was their duty to run in front of incoming torpedoes to save the larger Carriers and cruisers, if it could be done.

@John_epp

2 жыл бұрын

Do you know what ship he served aboard?

@fatboyrowing

2 жыл бұрын

@@John_epp I’m jumping into the discussion. My dad, still alive in Feb 2022, served upon DE 766, the USS Slater. They had 8 K guns, 2 gravity racks and I believe a forward hedgehog for ASW. But you can check her out for yourself today, she is a museum ship on the Hudson River in Albany NY. My dad helped with her restoration into his 80s. He was a radioman. The twin 40’s are the gem on this ship as far as I’m concerned. They operate like fine Swiss watches. The whole ship is worth a look - the restoration and curation is excellent.

@hotgluegun

2 жыл бұрын

@@John_epp USS Chester T O'Brien

@patrickshaw8595

2 жыл бұрын

@@fatboyrowing Excellent. Thanks for sharing !

An excellent presentation on a game changing weapon system. The principle behind the 'Hedgehog' ASW mortar is still in use today in more modern applications, primarily in Russian and PLAN destroyers and frigates because it works. Most Western navies prefer other weapons relying on homing torpedoes. USS England (DE 653) and most other destroyer escorts were fitted with a single Hedgehog launcher while many Fletcher, Sumner and Gearing class destroyers mounted two. In both DEs and DDs this was in addition to their depth charge racks and "K gun" depth charge mortars. At one point after USS England became a seagoing "Ace" (5 kills makes a fighter pilot an Ace) Fleet Admiral King remarked "There will always be an 'England' in the United States Navy. The next England started life as a Leahy class Guided Missile Destroyer Leader / Frigate (DLG 22) but was later reclassified as a Guided Missile Cruiser (CG.) I think it's past time for the USN to build and commission another England.

@alexlo7708

2 жыл бұрын

You are misunderstood. Russian use RBU 6000 as there decoy or jamming to torpedo. Not to attack submarine.

@odileelido8407

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure Admiral King was referring to the popular wartime song "There'll Always Be an England": kzread.info/dash/bejne/kaWcrrKQk9CTYNo.html

@jjhry177

2 жыл бұрын

since we are so good allies it would be nice lol but without 1 there will be no other

@scooter2099

5 ай бұрын

Ernest King was a notorious Anglophobe. He basically hated Poms - but then as his daughter said - he was an even tempered man ... he was cranky at everyone....

@jacktattis

4 ай бұрын

All to a British Invention.

Holy crap! 6 kills in 12 days..... That's pretty damn effective.

My dad once told us a story about the last convoy his corvette escorted before the end of the war. They had damaged a U-Boat with their hedge-hog mortar, and had been following the oil trail for a couple of hours. Then a British destroyer showed up and ordered them to get lost and let "the professionals" handle it. So guess what happened. "The professionals" managed to lose the U-Boat. The next day when they were in port, the crew read about a surfaced U-Boat trailing oil being sunk by a patrol plane right where they had been ordered away. Dad said the captain was furious over the incident. And though it was 50 years earlier, I could still feel the bitterness in dad's voice while he told the story. He said the hedge-hog was a huge improvement over depth charges. Main advantage was that it was facing forward. Could also be used against surfaced U-Boats.

@lightfootpathfinder8218

2 жыл бұрын

What nationality was your dad ?

@warrendubeau851

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightfootpathfinder8218 Canadian.

@lightfootpathfinder8218

2 жыл бұрын

@@warrendubeau851 oh right that makes Sence ...I thought you were American ... Thank you for your father's service in ww2 My grandfather fought in North Africa, Italy and the Netherlands 🇬🇧🤝🇨🇦

@xxnightdriverxx9576

2 жыл бұрын

to be fair, the Royal Navy in general had the most experience in dealing with Uboats, much more than the Canadian or US Navy. So I guess that was where that arrogance from the RN captain came from. Of course averages are just that, averages, an experienced Canadian crew of course performed much better than a green british crew, but on average the RN had the most experience. Also, Uboats that got trailed were lost all the time again, so it may be possible that the boat your father was on would have lost it as well. We just dont know. On another note, I always find it funny how the US basically refused any advise from the Royal Navy in how to deal with Uboats after their entry into the war, leading to another golden hour for the german uboats directly off the coast of the US. A big part in that was that no blackouts of coastal cities were done, as a result the merchant ships were visible against background light at night, making much easier targets. A lot of ships were lost because the USN was too arrogant to use the strategies the Royal Navy suggested to them.

@barrettcarr1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@xxnightdriverxx9576 I disagree, it wasn't the USN, the problem was Admiral KING who hated the British and refused any help, such as training in anti-Submarine warfare, the offer of RN ships especially developed for attacking subs. Admiral KING should have been sacked. Because of his attitude far too many Merchant seamen and ships were lost, especially the oil tankers on the East Coast of America, (second happy days) and the Merchant men who did survive the sinking of the oil tankers where horribly burnt. If you can ever look at photos of the badly burnt survivors you will understand mu comment the KING was an ar**hole and should have been dismissed

After years of watching all sorts of videos about the wars, it's getting increasingly more rare to find new stories I've yet to hear about; this is one of those rare stories!! As always, thank you for the (seemingly) neverending amount of quality content you produce!!

@raymondj8768

2 жыл бұрын

so true but this chan keeps finding great stories !

@stephenhoward6829

2 жыл бұрын

The book "Tin Cans" by Theodore Roscoe has a very good detailing of this attack, and of so much of the naval war from the perspective of the Destroyer-Navy. I totally recommend it.

@davidneel8327

2 жыл бұрын

I had heard about the hedgehog but not in this detail. Good video.

@alainarchambault2331

2 жыл бұрын

I think The History Guy does a better retelling of DE England.

@robocombo

2 жыл бұрын

Have a read of a great book called "The ministry of ungentlemanly warfare" by Giles Milton, its fascinating

My Grandfather's ship, HMS Westcott (D47), a V&W class destroyer, was the first RN ship to be fitted with the Hedgehog in August 1941. She was a test platform for the trials of the Hedgehog

There are actually TWO weapons from the British Royal Navy Bureau Of Miscillanious Weapons Development in this video: They also introduced the Oerlikon 20mm AA gun to the US Navy: at a demonstration a USN Admiral quite literally " wrote his name" with it, and a Contract- and History- was made.

@bobgreene2892

2 жыл бұрын

Sam Russell said, "... The British Royal Navy Bureau of Miscellaneous Weapons... also introduced the Oerlikon 20mm AA gun to the US Navy... " ------------------------------------------------------- The Oerlikon AA cannon was a Swedish weapon, sold to everybody, including the Royal Navy.

@davedixon2068

Ай бұрын

@@bobgreene2892 Suspect it was somewhat more complex than Sweden sold them to everyone, Sweden was neutral, so not supposed to sell weapons to either side I think the British bought a licence to produce and modify the Oerlikon before the war started so probably the Americans bought that right to manufacture the British version from the British,. both sides used them though so the Germans got them too.

Whenever an hydrostatic depth charge went off the water was disrupted so badly for several minutes that they frequently lost their ASDIC/SONAR contacts in the broiling, bubbling mess. Subs could make their escape using a dramatic course change in the confusion that was undetectable. A big advantage of Hedgehog and it's contact fuse is that a "miss" did not result in an explosion and therefore continuous contact was maintained throughout. If there was an explosion ... you got 'em and it doesn't matter.

@chloehennessey6813

2 жыл бұрын

Whenever a hydrostatic. An doesn’t fit here. If you used a noun- say-explosive? Than it would fit. “Whenever an explosive depth charge went off”.

@chrisrace744

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for explaining the advantages. This 10 min video I watched didn't help me understand how this new tech was an advantage.

@abrahamdozer6273

Жыл бұрын

@@chloehennessey6813 They are all explosives. An "hydrostatic depth charge" is a sub-set of "explosives" and is therefore more specific. You Need to re-read the original sentence. (Is English your first language?)

@g8ymw

Жыл бұрын

@@chloehennessey6813 Hydrostatic depth charges are (manually, on deck) set to go off at a certain depth whether it hits anything or not. The idea is the shock wave will damage the sub. Hedgehogs are a contact weapon, you only get a (smaller) bang if you hit something Another thing is the ship's sonar looks ahead of the ship, depth charges go off the back so a sub can make a sharp turn in the ship's blind (deaf?) spot. Hedgehogs fire ahead of the ship so aiming at the sonar contact

@SebastianSchleussner

7 күн бұрын

@@chloehennessey6813 In a dialect that swallows the H in "hydro" and "herb" just as everyone does in "hour", "an" fits without problem.

The breaking of the Japanese naval code was a joint US and Australian effort. A lot of the intelligence used by USS England came from Australian codebreakers in Townsville Queensland not from the USN

@tclanjtopsom4846

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, they are good at forgetting collaboration partners.

@grahambaker6664

2 жыл бұрын

@Gert Bonk They did as a result of the division of the areas of responsibility between the codebreaking units in the Pacific. The USN codebreaking units were responsible for the Northern and Central Pacific. British codebreaking units, based in Colombo, were responsible for Burma and the Indian Ocean. The Australian codebreaking units, based in Townsville and Darwin, were responsible for South-West Pacific including the Solomon and Admiralty Island chains, New Guinea, and the Dutch East Indies. The Australian codebreaking units were integrated into the FRUPAC command structure which resulted in their work being reported as USN successes. USS England's anti-submarine operations were conducted within the Solomon and Admiralty Island chains and the responsibility for codebreaking would have been with the Australian codebreaking units.

@grahambaker6664

2 жыл бұрын

@Gert Bonk I am not aware of any links but these are a summary of the hardcopy references: "The Eavesdroppers" by Jack Bleakley published by the Australian Government Publishing Service in 1992 ISBN 0 644 22303 0 Documents held by the Australian National Archives and the Australian War Memorial relating to No. 1 Wireless Unit RAAF, No. 4 Wireless Unit RAAF, No. 5 Wireless Unit RAAF, and No. 6 Wireless Unit RAAF Personal papers of General C.A. Willoughby US Army Intelligence who was G2 Intelligence South West Pacific Area.

@grahambaker6664

2 жыл бұрын

@Gert Bonk So all the knowledge accumulated prior to the internet didn't exist because it was written in books? Even historical records published by governments?

@grahambaker6664

2 жыл бұрын

@Gert Bonk The biggest impact the Aussies had on the Pacific war was when Mark Oliphant, an Australian Physics Professor at Birmingham University, designed Little Boy in 1940 as part of the British Tube Alloys atomic bomb project. The design was finalized over a year before the Manhattan Project was authorised.

I was serving on a US Navy DDG in the middle 1980s My ship was moored to a pier in Charleston Naval Station when a Canadian frigate moored at the same pier . A Canadian sailor gave me a tour of his ship and I got to see their hedgehog .

@ddegn

2 жыл бұрын

Cool! I love reading these sorts of stories in the comments. Thanks for sharing it and thanks for your service. I tried joining the marines in 1982. I didn't pass the physical. Bad heart.

@victorwaddell6530

2 жыл бұрын

@@ddegn I volunteered to be a navy diver in basic training . My nasal passages were screwed up , so I couldn't go diver , submarine , or air crew .

@s.porter8646

2 жыл бұрын

What's a Canadian hedgehog look like you pevert 😜🤪

@victorwaddell6530

2 жыл бұрын

@@s.porter8646 Want pics ?

@s.porter8646

2 жыл бұрын

@@victorwaddell6530 I served on 5 subs...we can compare

Great weapon, Britain. Well done.

Got to tell ya, as a career sonar tech and frigate (formerly classed as DE's) sailor, I give this video a thumbs up.

The England is such a great story I'm surprised that Brian Williams was not there.

My grandfather was a gunnery captain aboard USS England in WW2. so imagine my smile when hearing about his ship!

My Dad was XO GEORGE at the time. She sank one of the six subs sunk, apparently because ENGLAND had run out of ammo. This was a coordinated group hunt, BTW, and credit should go to all three ships. (the other was RABY). Also, as an aside, the Special Weapons Development group was informally referred to as "the Wheezers and Dodgers".

@mikeloghry9521

2 жыл бұрын

SALUTE !!! To Your Dad and all the crews that served.

My grandfather served on an uboat later in the war. Im so glad that I never had to go to such fearing bombardments. It is literally my deepest fear to be helpless under the seas surface...destroyed by hedgehogs or deep charges or even worse...buried alive in a sunk uboat on the oceans ground.

@Bestnightcoreofalltime

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobgreene2892 Yes…but if I’m allowed to be pessimistic the next year will test my luck 😕

@Bestnightcoreofalltime

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobgreene2892 Yes…but if I’m allowed to be pessimistic the next year will test my luck 😕

@simplywonderful449

2 жыл бұрын

My dad was a submariner during WWII as well, and talked very little about it as it instilled in him fears that his son would have to go to war someday as well. We'd go through the U-boat at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, and he'd note things in the German sub, comparing it to the U.S. subs. Even berths would make him state, "Man, we had it a lot better than they did" about U-boat crews, but he always had respect for his fellow submariners, even the enemy. It takes a certain type of person who is able to keep a straight head when others would be losing theirs to serve on a submarine.

@albertsuseintsus7355

2 жыл бұрын

@@simplywonderful449 how old are you sir?

@jjhry177

2 жыл бұрын

hope he survived until well after the war bud

I am ex-R.A.N, and I can remember that back in1967,when I was serving on HMAS Stuart, that we were tasked to sail to deep water,off the NSW coast, and dump many,many boxes containing the last stocks of Aussie owned Hedgehogs. Nothing happeneind, I am just remembering a little story about this subject.

If you want to see one of these up close you can come to Halifax NS and go visit the HMCS Sackville our WW2 navy memorial / museum. Highly recommended for your Halifax visit to do list. Next door is the Maritime Maritime Museum of the Atlantic. They have quite a few exhibits including a pretty good collection from the Titanic.

My dad served in Royal Navy in the 50s and told me about these. Nice to get some information about them. Thanks!

My Dad was a Hedge Hog operator on the HMCS Stettler in the North Atlantic Theatre. He told me of one time he fired them off but one misfired and sat there. He contacted the bridge, they gave him the go ahead to try to fire it again, another misfire. They told him to try again and it misfired a 3rd time. They then told him to take it off the launcher and throw it overboard. He hated that as he wasn't sure if it armed itself. They have little propellers on the front and once turned a few times it armed so it was a little stressful when they misfired. Didn't happen often tho.

Wanted to hear how this British weapon was deployed and used by the Royal navy to help turn the tide against the U-boats in the Atlantic ...instead got a brief overview of its invention then a story about a US navy destroyer in the Pacific ... I get the Sence this channel is tailored for American viewers

@xxnightdriverxx9576

2 жыл бұрын

yeah, its quite annoying.....

Invented by a caravan builder in England as a single ambush mortar. It Was then set up as a area denied weapon on a battlefield. Usual if multiple launchers. A fine British weapon. Fashion by Churchills gentlemen of unconventional warfare

@chrisbrace2204

8 күн бұрын

there's a story that the Original Blacker Bombard was demonstrated to a Group of generals and Churchill, amongst them was De Gaulle, and during the demonstration there was a misfire that nearly hit him, which he thought was deliberate, and why he consistently was anti British after that.

My uncle was a torpedo-man abroad destroyer DD-521, the USS Kimberly, during WWWII. He didn’t talk a lot about the numerous engagements in which the ship had a role. However the battle of Leyte Gulf and the battle for Okinawa with Kamikaze aircraft were the most terrifying to him. Two of his best friends were killed among the dozens of casualties of these battles. Because of the ships battle record, The Kimberly was one of the ships chosen to escort the USS Alabama into Tokyo Bay for the Japanese surrender ceremony. Ironically and numerous,y, Uncle Joe served in the US Navy for more than 4 years, and couldn’t swim 6 feet. He was second father and mentor to me, and I admired him greatly.

The Hedgehog, Made in England, just like radar, asdic/sonar, the steam catapult, and many other inventions that probably won the war.

@tent7014

2 жыл бұрын

10 cm Magnatron, Bren Gun (Czech), Spitfire, Convoy system, VT fuse, Bletchley Park,............................................................on and on and on mate !

@seanmcmullen4274

2 жыл бұрын

dont forget, in my opinion, the most important invention...the proximity fuse.

@BillFromTheHill100

2 жыл бұрын

Steam Catapult?

@TheTrueNorth11

2 жыл бұрын

@@BillFromTheHill100 For launching planes, used on aircraft carriers.

@terrysmith9362

2 жыл бұрын

which was reverse lend lease but never recognised by Anglophobic historians

Little known secret: set playback speed at 75% to keep from getting a headache due to crazy fast talking.

During the Vietnam War, my old WWII-era Sumner Class destroyer had these "just in case."

This really brings home how dangerous and scary it must be to serve on board a submarine. Apart from being cut off from the outside world, knowing that you're hundreds of feet below the surface but not knowing where you are, you've also got to deal with the fact that someone up there is trying to kill you and you could die at any minute.

@bravo2966

5 ай бұрын

I'm sure the crews of the convoys who the submarines were blowing out of the water were very sad for the submariners.

@Real_Steve_Sharpe

5 ай бұрын

@@bravo2966 Which part of his comment are you responding to big guy? Be specific please, quote the exact words or sentences. I read through it and couldn't see a single thing that relates to whatever it is you're spouting off about, just a very true statement about how dangerous and scary being a submariner must be, no mention of for who or in what time period - but then again I'm dumb as a box ox frogs, nowhere near as smart as you are xcx

@philsalvatore3902

3 ай бұрын

And yet US submariners at least will tell you there are two kinds of ships, submarines and targets. I had a conversation with a US Navy F/A-18 pilot some years ago about the efficacy of certain air launched weapons against modern warships. After discussing their relative merits he added a sentence that still makes me pause in wonder. He said, referring the the PLAN " assuming there is anything left for us to shoot at after our subs get done with them" Hearing this from a jet jock was, well, shocking.

I served on WWII built destroyers in the 1960s. Most Hedgehogs were removed by 1970. Nuclear powered subs and homing torpedoes made getting close to subs dangerous for destroyers. ASROC was the main destroyer anti sub weapon by then.

@shize9ine

2 жыл бұрын

Now I want to see a Dark Seas ASROC video!

@s.porter8646

2 жыл бұрын

And SUBROC

@boholde2757

Жыл бұрын

Former Sonarman here. We used acoustical homing torpedos and rocket thrown acoustical homing torpedoes (ASROC….anti submarine rocket) in the early 70s. Two of the weapons in the ASROC launcher were nuclear. Obviously, we never shot a nuke, but the saying was…If one went off in the same ocean as the target, you sank the sub.

@philsalvatore3902

3 ай бұрын

@@boholde2757 ASROC and torpedos remain the primary ASW weapons on surface ships. ASROC now is called VLA for Vertical Launch ASROC. The old eight cell "pepper box" is long gone. They are loaded into the Mk-41 VLS. The Hedgehog however carried on in spirit at least with the Russian RBU series ASW mortars. Btw, I was an SH-3 pilot and dropping a nuclear depth charge was basically a suicide mission. Our NATOPS actually had a statement in there about opening the doors and windows to let the blast blow through! Sure thing.

Very interesting video, I never knew the Hedgehog existed. My father sailed on several Merchant Marine vessels and while on a mission was attacked by a German Wolfpack U-boat. He was smoking a cigarette on deck when a torpedo appeared out of nowhere. He thought he was a dead man as the torpedo hit the side of the ship, but it didn't detonate and broke apart upon impact. I can't imagine the terror of that.

@captainotto

2 жыл бұрын

A whole crew was thanking their lucky stars that night.

@martinnermut2582

5 ай бұрын

Smoking on board at night was prohibited, because especially the lighter flame was seen miles away

My late father in law was co of HMS Violet. She sank u 641 with her hedgehog. I have his DSC.

The faster transition between video chapters is appreciated.

"The _mythical_ USS England" ? Surely you mean _legendary_ ?

@philsalvatore3902

3 ай бұрын

I have seen enough of the Dark video series to think the narrator is not a native English speaker.

@andrew3203

17 күн бұрын

There are too many legends and far fewer myths. As any modern person knows, rarity scale goes like this: normal, uncommon, rare, epic, legendary, mythic, divine.

~1969 I served aboard the U.S.S. Nicholas - DD-449 out of Pearl. She was the oldest DD in the Navy at that time. After her final WestPac tour we were tied pier side to undergo her decommissioning, I was an FTG in gunnery division. We had Hedgehog racks forward and above the main deck splash guard. Below the bridge, and below the Gunfire Control Director. The Hedgehog racks were loaded with dummy sand filled charges painted blue. While doing PM up in the Director, all hatches open for air flow, I heard the distinct BRRrrrraap of the hedgehogs firing, I glanced up through the director top hatch to see a salvo of blue hogs in flight up and away. Towards the pier. Stuck my head out of the open hatch to see the hogs pummel the pier, and the geedunk restaurant stand on the pier. No injuries, the geedunk stand sheetmetal patio roofing took a direct hit by at least two sand filled hogs and collapsed. The next issue of the "All Hands" magazine had a lead article about how the Nicholas had sunk a geedunk stand. I carried the magazine around for the remaining three years of my enlistment. Always good for a smile. Oh, no campaign ribbon was issued for the battle of the pier.

@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684

2 жыл бұрын

Great history, thanks for that little gem.

Whether you were a crewman on a merchant ship, lying on your bunk at night imagining torpedoes slamming into the hull at any moment or a sailor in a U-Boat sweating as the sound of depth charges exploding got closer. It was hard on the nerves and turned young men into old ones quickly.

@joefish6091

2 жыл бұрын

Twas on the good ship Venus...

@gangleweed

Жыл бұрын

@@joefish6091 ......my god you should have seen us....

@boholde2757

Жыл бұрын

I would never want to be on a submarine under attack.

Can't one imagine the Horror? Of being in a armed metal tube. Knowing the Hedge Hog and Depth Charges were falling in on you. No where to run. No where to hide. Man O Man.

@crankychris2

2 жыл бұрын

Once your batteries were depleted, your only options were to blow your ballast tanks, surface and surrender...or die.

@JTA1961

2 жыл бұрын

Under PRESSURE

Quite apart from its effectiveness, the Hedgehog had a Psychological and Logistical advantage: with Contact fuses if one exploded, that was a Hit, a submarine had been damaged and probably destroyed, rather than hours of sweeps and Depth Charges following a salvo.

Terrifying but super cool at the same time!

My Dad's HMCS Saskatoon got a U-boat near the end of the war, the U-boat at the time was filled with fanatical Hitler youth who, one climbing on board the Canadian ship would pull a grenade. My dad would stand on deck with rifle with bayonet. A young man climbed on deck shivering with a lump under his vest. That lump was a Voitlander Camera that I have on my dresser. He was only 18 in 41. His friends went off to Hong Kong and never returned. His joining the RCN saved his life.

I've often wondered how Effective the Hedge Hog were. Knowing is half the battle. A real interesting bit of Research. Thank You.

@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND

2 жыл бұрын

During WWII out of 5,174 British depth charge attacks there were 85.5 kills, a ratio of 60.5 to 1. In comparison, the Hedgehog made 268 attacks for 47 kills, a ratio of 5.7 to 1.

Contrary to your statement. recoil from hedgehogs being fired was a major source of structural problems and helped lead to newer/ better devices. They would blow out light bulbs and cause other electrical issues when they were fired. Ripple firing hedgehogs only reduced the amount of damage. Look up "mouse trap" ASW projectors used by smaller ASW vessels due to the huge reduction in recoil. Mouse trap had some issues with the back blast but this was manageable.

USS England was awesome!

@mikeloghry9521

2 жыл бұрын

Had a fantastic Crew. SALUTE

One of the main advantages of Hedgehog was the attacking vessel could maintain ASDIC contact with the target. With only depth charges they would loose contack when running over the target and dropping the charges. This forced them to quickly having to turn and try and regain contact

@dovetonsturdee7033

2 жыл бұрын

You should read accounts of Captain Walker's 'Creeping Attack' method. Two or more escorts, using asdic and radar.

@michaelb9529

2 жыл бұрын

@@dovetonsturdee7033 Oh I know that was one of the reasons why the RCN and RN to lesser degree formed hunter killer groups of destroyers to they could overwhelm the uboat often they would wait for them to form a wolfpack and then strike. They also attacked German destroyer squadron doing night patrols

@jacktattis

4 ай бұрын

@@dovetonsturdee7033 Yes and the USN copied it I believe

The hedgehog is a cute little thing with lots of character, they make great pets

Most interesting use of a hedgehog was the Australian Matilda tank with one stuck on its back, firing forward. Blacker had a fixation on this type of mortar that nobody else shared.

Destroyer Escorts…. The little warships that could.

*ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES MADE THE DIFFERENCE AS DOES TODAY!!*

Excellently presented! Carry on!

I have always wanted to mount a hedgehog on a universal carrier. It would be perfect for initiating an ambush. Just drop 24 mortars in and around an enemy patrol before opening fire with small arms.

@nerfinator03

2 жыл бұрын

And not a single one would hit the now angry enemy.

@magnetmannenbannanen

2 жыл бұрын

i allways wanted to mount a hedgehog to deal with roadragers and brakecheckers in front of me in traffic.

@mikeloghry9521

2 жыл бұрын

@@magnetmannenbannanen So it's ok that two wrongs make it right. Not hardly!

@CZ350tuner

2 жыл бұрын

Trials were performed with Hedgehog mounted on the engine deck of a British A12 Matilda II infantry tank. Airfix makes a 1:76 scale model kit of this Hedgehog equipped tank.

@politenessman3901

2 жыл бұрын

@@CZ350tuner Officially known as the 'Matilda Projector, Hedgehog, No. 1 Mark I, this fitted a Hedgehog 7-chambered spigot mortar in an armoured box on the rear hull of several Australian Matilda tanks. The projector was elevated by hydraulics adapted from the Logan traversing mechanism used in M3 Medium tank turrets and electrically fired either individually or in a salvo of six, from the 12 o'clock position;] the fifth tube could not be fired until the turret was traversed to 1 o'clock, to move the radio antenna out of the bomb's flightpath. Each bomb weighed 65 lb (29 kg) and contained 30 to 35 lb (14 to 16 kg) of high explosive. The range was up to 400 m (440 yd). Aiming was accomplished by pointing the entire tank; the mounting had no independent traverse, so accuracy was not spectacular, but adequate for the task.[40] Trials at Southport, Queensland, in May 1945 were pronounced complete success, and the Projector would have been impressive against enemy bunkers, but the war ended before it was used operationally.

I find it rather amusing that the ship captains refused to use a ASW technology simply because it was a novel way, a different way to what they were used to. Dropping bombs, firing guns or ramming they knew. Firing off small bomblettes in a pattern likely garnered laughter from said captains. Yet, when it was actually ordered by their commanders to use them, successes with them dramatically increased. Sounds like people from today actually.

@davidpage4005

2 жыл бұрын

Also sounds just like the American Admiral Ernie King's attitude to taking advice from the R.N. about Atlantic convoy escort and tactics when America first got involved in the spring of 1942.

@MrJest2

2 жыл бұрын

Technology and tactics change. People don't.

LCDR John A. Williamson, USNR was very good at mathematics and was able to plot and predict target and own ship motion and come up with good underwater fire control solutions. He spent a fair amount of time at Key West FL training sailors for ASW and got to try out his ideas there. He also developed the famous "Willianson turn" to aid recovery of man over board sailors.

England...........Bloody Well Done!

The Aussie Army fitted a Hedgehog for use on land on the back of a Matilda Tank!

The USS Stewart in Galveston's Seawolf Park has the hedgehogs. I remember taking pics of them as they seemed so unique and remarkable. I never knew anything about them until then. Great to see this video add to that bit of knowledge!

I think another advantage of the Hedgehog over depth charges was that sub could not hear them go into the water easily. Big barrels used for depth charges could be heard, but the smaller mortar was more diificult to hear. If ship went over a sub it was good idea for the sub to change direction. But since a ship did not need to go over a sub with the Hedgehog the sub didn't really know when the mortars were fired.

@joefish6091

2 жыл бұрын

The big 55 gallon sized depth charges were just rolled off the back of a destroyer from a ramp.

@cmillerg6306

5 ай бұрын

We're the deployed hedgehogs really that far away, so that a noisy ship couldn't be detected?

@cmillerg6306

5 ай бұрын

​@joefish6091 there is footage of them also being launched

@alastair9446

5 ай бұрын

@@cmillerg6306 Ships could be heard as far as 10km underwater. The hedgehog distance is 230m. It's not about not detecting the ship, it's about timing. Subs could avoid depths charge by being able to tell when they were dropped and hide in the aftermath of the explosion. You can't really tell when a ship fired hedgehogs and hedgehogs did not explode unless contact with the sub, so you can't hide in the aftermath of the explosion. Hedgehogs were also new weapons so the Germans probably didn't even know about them most of the war and how to counter it if even possible. Play Silent hunter 2 to understand the problem.

What a disgusting weapon. Submariners are some of the nicest people. STS2 (SS) 1981-1987

Wow, I knew absolutely nothing about this weapon, and foolishly assumed all WW2 encounters with subs were decided by depth charge,deck gun or torpedo. Fascinating, thank you for featuring the hedgehog!

A mention or quick comparison with the American Mousetrap (a rocket propelled knock-off of the Hedgehog) might have been nice. I understand the U.S. used both of these forward shooting anti-sub systems.

@mcmneverreadsreplys7318

6 ай бұрын

Both show up in war film. You can easily spot the Mousetrap by the fire coming out of it's tail, whereas the Hedgehog only has smoke. The Mousetrap also put less stress on the ship's deck.

Aliens then copied the technology and tried to sink a battleship...

Ah, the Hedgehog...so damn good, the Aussies nearly succeeded in placing it on a tank...

I’ve enjoyed many of you’re documented videos as when I was a kid watching National Geographic and History channel. Now 40 years old, thank for keeping the history alive 😎

Do a 'Dark Seas' episode on the US Navy forward operating repair dry docks for warships set up in sneaky little pacific island atolls and bays helping ships get repaired quickly and sent back into action faster, really don't hear much about them.

@mikeloghry9521

2 жыл бұрын

Now that is a Great Idea. I 2ND THAT.

@boxhawk5070

2 жыл бұрын

Until 2001 Bath Iron Works had one in Casco Bay, Maine. It was built in 1944 and used in the Pacific. It is now at a shipyard in Croatia.

@AsrielDreemurYT653

2 жыл бұрын

Do it!

@seanmcmullen4274

2 жыл бұрын

news to me. i have never heard about these.

Brits used to come up with awesome weapons

@dg115

2 жыл бұрын

We still do, we just don't talk about.

@AsrielDreemurYT653

2 жыл бұрын

Damn right

@AsrielDreemurYT653

2 жыл бұрын

U.S.A. isn’t the only one.

@sunnycat69

2 жыл бұрын

Now you have a nhs and no mill :(

Good film .The Wheezers and Dodgers strike again! (the uk's Admiralty's Department of Miscellaneous Weapon Development.)

I've seen these for so so long on ships in videos and movies, but never knew what to look for. Thank you for randomly feeding me an answer I've been looking for for a long time.

Your so called "blind spot" was when the submerged sub got close enough to the ASW ships that it was below the acoustic energy beam that was projected and received at the sonar dome. The farther away sonar lost contact the deeper the sub was submerged. This allowed the sonar gang to calculate the subs depth and call out settings to the depth charge crews. Sometimes also the ASW ship would use it's fathometer as it went overhead the sub to find the how deep it was submerged and call out depth charge settings. The amount of time the sub was in your so called "blind spot" was usually not enough to allow it to escape. When the subs sonar couldn't hear the ASW ship pinging any more is when they would try to avoid attacks close enough for a kill and if they got lucking make an escape. Keep in mind that usually ASW ships operated in mutually supporting groups and this made escape difficult for subs in WW2.

I've always been fascinated by these weapons since seeing them in films!

Had read about hedgehogs for years. Thanks for clarifying how they worked.

The other super weapon was the Mark 24 acoustic homing torpedo known as "FIDO". First used in the Atlantic in March, 1943 it was hugely successful. So successful that the original factory order was reduced by more the half. There is a KZread video that includes an audio recording made of the sinking of IJN I-52 two weeks after the Normandy landing. The sub was delivering rubber ingots and other critical supplies to the Nazi submarine pens in France. Unfortunately for the Japanese and Germans, Bletchley Park code breakers had been tracking the sub for weeks and knew when and where it was going to pick up two German radio operators with Enigma machines. The sub was then sunk two hours later.

Your Documentaries are great!! your commentary voice is excellent.

Nice video. You should make a video on Captain Johnny Walker. An incredible man and the most successful sub hunter.

@davidpage4005

2 жыл бұрын

Along with Capt Donald McIntyre.!!

Wished there were interviews with some of these men. Hearing what these old dogs had experienced is awesome. They can tell you some crazy stories from out there.

Looking at the uniforms of the sailors using the hedgehog, it looks as if most of them were USN. Another successful tactic against the U-boats was intercepting their crossing the Bay of Biscay for supply replenishment. Again, this was a joint UK/US effort. The tin cans size belies the importance of their contribution to winning the war on the seas in WWII. I have an undying appreciation for their efforts.

No. It was not invented by "Lootenent Stuart Blacker", but by "Lettenant Stuart Blacker". Yes. That's how the word in pronounced in Royal Navy. "... enough to sink an entire submarine." Presumably, before this innovation, it had only been possible to sink parts of a submarine.

@nickbedingfield1699

2 жыл бұрын

Leftenant ( a typo surely )

@nicolek4076

2 жыл бұрын

@@nickbedingfield1699 I was very specific. "Leftenant" in the army, "lettenant" in the navy.

@brucegibbins3792

2 жыл бұрын

Pedantic nonsense. Not a worthwhile contribution at all.

@coachhannah2403

2 жыл бұрын

Loit-nant in Kriegsmarine

@nicolek4076

2 жыл бұрын

@@coachhannah2403 Quite correct, if you're talking about an officer in the Kriegsmarine. In this case, the officer in question was in the Royal Navy.

The people who won the Second World War were not just the Allied Forces, they included the boffins behind the Allied Forces. The Nazis had underground, hardened, reinforced concrete bunkers where they accumulated the scientific elite of the countries which they occupied. The Allies had blokes tinkering in sheds. Barnes-Wallace, bouncing bomb is just one example.

Hedgehog remains one of the few shallow water prosecution weapons.

I love all of their channels! Great content and easy to watch.

Captain Walker RN, the UK's ASW doctrine lead, reported a kill on his first use of a hedgehog, a bit to his surprise (Biography 'Walker RN' by Terence Robertson)

The Hedgehog 🦔 and the underwater radar, sonar, were the game changers that doomed the U-boats as an offensive weapon. By the end of the war, a U-boat was lucky just to return to port after her patrol. After 1943, it was ' Hell in the 🌊 sea ' to be in a U-boat. The thing was, if the Germans had built 👷 a lot more of the U-boats instead of wasting it on surface warships before the war, they would have knocked England out of the war.

@andypeterson8013

2 жыл бұрын

Not really, it was the Enigma machine that was the game changer for the Allies in the Atlantic. Once we got our hands on the Enigma it was over for the U-Boats.

@dovetonsturdee7033

2 жыл бұрын

@@andypeterson8013 You haven't allowed for the importance of HF/DF.

@tedthesailor172

2 жыл бұрын

But by the same token, If Britain had applied itself to anti-submarine warfare during the interwar years between 1918- 1937, after the terrible onslaught of U-boats during WW1, we'd have been ready for the challenge, instead of losing millions of tone of merchant shipping and men while playing catch-up...

@lightfootpathfinder8218

2 жыл бұрын

Britain not England

@dovetonsturdee7033

2 жыл бұрын

@@tedthesailor172 Perhaps, although the over-confidence all navies felt in the use of asdic/sonar was a factor. Moreover, the Admiralty never expected to be required to fight against Germany and Italy unsupported by the French fleet. As a result, the Royal Navy was much more stretched than any pre-war planning had assumed. When you also include the fact that the German submarine fleet was never expected to have had access to French Atlantic ports, but was assumed to have to make the long voyage around the North of Scotland even to reach the Atlantic, the need for any 'catch up' was not surprising.

My dad's DD was credited with 2.5 U-Boat kills. U-173, U-73, and an assist on U-960, all in the Med. However, all were depth charge or depth charge/surface action kills.

Nice. You provided context of which I was not aware.

what's interesting is that the 35lb warhead is the same size as the explosive charge in a 2 ton 16" AP shell.

@martinnermut2582

5 ай бұрын

Because the water warhead doesnt need metal casing (the destroying effect is made by shards not by explosive itself). In deep water, the water aroung works as casing

Could you possibly do a video on the British Royal Navy's Tucker Hotwire over the horizon acoustic rangefinder, that entered service in 1909? I once read about how it functioned and how it gave an edge over German warships in WW1. It was accurate to within 100 yards, despite the target being sometimes over the horizon and out of sight. Any chance of a video?

Flower Class Corvettes also had the Hedgehog fitted to them. Tiny little escort ships with a single deck gun, some AA guns and depth charge launchers and rollers at the stern. The Hedgehog was their primary weapon. K181 HMCS Sackville is the only living Flower Class Corvette and is moored as a museum in Halifax, Canada. You can see her on Google maps.

“Mythical USS England”? You mean Legendary?

I greatly enjoy these tidbits of history that I have not heard of before. One thing I would like to know about the hedgehog is what happened to the rounds that did not hit a hard target and explode? Is the sea floor littered with unexploded hedgehog rounds just waiting to go off? I know that there are modern versions of this weapon in use today but they have delayed detonation safeties installed on them in case they don’t hit a target. I think some of the Scandinavian countries are using some version of the weapon on their coastal patrol boats, but I don’t know who else is using them. Does anyone know when the last time the hedgehog was used in combat was and against what enemy?

@AVB2

2 жыл бұрын

World War Two was the last war that the Hedgehog was used. Weapons derived from the Hedgehog have been largely phased out from Western navies in favor of homing torpedoes. These rounds were made from mild steel which is susceptible to rust once the paint is removed by wave and sand action on the outer skin. Once the outer skin rusts through the Torpex (explosive) would simply dissolve. After nearly 80 years of being submerged in saltwater any unexploded Hedgehog rounds have most likely already been naturally defused. In addition they are laying in the ocean hundreds or thousands of miles from where divers could disturb them.

@larryclemens1850

2 жыл бұрын

@@AVB2 Hauling one in a fishing net would make for an interesting day.

@davidneel8327

2 жыл бұрын

@@AVB2 However at depth there is little oxygen in the water.

@paulcallicoat7597

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidneel8327 Look at the pictures of the Titanic when first discovered and the most recent pictures. The microbes are eating it and its down a few miles.

@dovetonsturdee7033

2 жыл бұрын

@@AVB2 Squid, a A/S weapon using a pair of three barrelled mortars fired automatically by the asdic of an escort, was already being introduced from late 1943. Squid mortars may still be seen aboard the preserved destroyers HMCS Haida and HMS Cavalier, I believe.

Thanks for posting this. Have not seen much on KZread reference this weapon. Did not realise that Stuart Blacker was involved in developing this. I knew that he had early involvement in what went on to become the Infantry PIAT, after further development by Millis Jefferis of Ministry Defence 1 (affectionately known as Churchills Toyshop). I had assumed that this was only used by the Royal Navy, and did not realise it was adopted and used as it would see to great effect by the American navy. Love the channel, keep the content coming.

@jcorbett9620

11 ай бұрын

It was also used as a "bunker busting" weapon fitted to the Churchill tank. Called the Churchill AVRE, one of Hobarts "Funnies" that was part of the 79th Armoured brigade, it featured a 240mm petard mortar replacing the main gun, fired on the same principle as the hedgehog, but used to blow up bunkers on the beaches during D-Day. If you want to know more about the development of these weapons and the men who came up with them, I recommend reading "The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare: Churchill's Mavericks: Plotting Hitler's Defeat" by Giles Milton

@andycorbett3052

11 ай бұрын

@@jcorbett9620 Thanks for the update. Yet again I was not aware that this was a development of Blacker's original device. Apparently Hobarts funnies made a real difference on the British beaches during D Day. Not sure if the Canadians used them but the American top brass were allegedly luke warm to their use on their front. The Churchill's Mavericks you refer to, is this a different group MD 1?

@jcorbett9620

11 ай бұрын

@@andycorbett3052 No, it's the same group of people. The book covers the groups formation, recruitment of all the maverick personnel (including Stewart Blacker), integration into SOE (becoming MIR (C)) and all the work they undertook, until they were disbanded at the end of WWII. The Allied forces that hit Juno, Sword and Gold, all had "Funnies" supporting the assault, so that would include the Canadian divisions.The Americans were offered the use of all of them, but only chose to take the Sherman DD's, but they were launched too far away and in the wrong place, forcing them to try and cross the prevailing tide, which swamped a lot of them. How much of a difference it would have made to US casualties on Utah and Omaha, if the "Funnies" had been fully utilised, is something that is unknown.

You've improved so much since the beginning. Thank you for one of the best channels out there.

ANOTHER GREAT VID!!! Quickly becoming 1 of my fav channels, if not my FAV channel (all the Dark channels, not just Dark Seas BTW). Keep it up my friend. 😉👍✌️

The aliens in Battleship have truly improved on these Hedgehogs, but all of them, including these oldies, work very well.

I remember one U.S.destroyer that sank five nip subs in 7 days using the deadly hedgehog.Thanks DARK DOCS for yet another superb video !

Can·t argue with those results .

“The hedgehog fired salvos of 24 mortars…that would descend and only detonate when coming in contact with a hard surface.” It makes one wonder how much unexploded ordinance is laying on the ocean floors. Not just from the hedgehog but from all sorts of weapons over time and various wars!

@Milkybar3320011

2 жыл бұрын

Guess the metal case has long rusted away and I know that certain explosives were not water soluble so are probably still there.

@tent7014

2 жыл бұрын

Rust and 5 miles down ?

@roberttarring8621

2 жыл бұрын

Would they not explode when hitting the ocean floor ?

@martijnb5887

2 жыл бұрын

The Dutch navy has permanently one minehunter active to detonate bombs dredged up by fishermen in the North Sea. Mostly dropped by bombers as these were not allowed to land with bombs still on board.