Good call on taking the rocker covers off, a lot of people say just to cut the pushrods, but they aren't checking the rocker shafts or servicing the head breathers. Doing half a job is sometimes regretable.

Super video. Straightforward and to the point while providing the right amount of detail. Three thumbs up.

Bolt cutters the push rods and replace with adjustable ones! No tank removal needed!

@WVhillDweller

4 жыл бұрын

I really want to know what you're talking about. Is there any video's showing that done?

@jrzyboy99

4 жыл бұрын

no more sea Rev 21:1 yes, JP cycles has a good one with cam and pushrod replacement on a twin cam.

@WVhillDweller

4 жыл бұрын

@@jrzyboy99 ok thanks

@chopperchopster

3 жыл бұрын

@@WVhillDweller remove push rod covers. Cut pushrods with a bolt cutter. This way you dont have to remove the rocker boxes to get the pushrods out. When your all done with the cam tensioners you simply put a set of adjustable pushrods in. Saves a lot of time.

The first time one checks the tensioners is a good opportunity to upgrade to SE or aftermarket cams, and the pre '06's can also upgrade to a billet cam support plate, higher capacity oil pump, and hydraulic tensioners.

Also, the 05 model year and the years behind 05 (the spring tensionor years) were known to have issues as low as 20k and as far as 40k. Some a little longer. I took mine down at 18k. It was o.k. but I did it anyway. My bike had been babied. Bought it used but knew the history. Very informative video. Thank you for your time and effort.

@shizuokaBLUES

3 жыл бұрын

Richard, my 2002 Low Rider has 15,000 miles on it. I’m considering just replacing the spring tensioner with the hydraulic kit at 18,000 just as you did, just for peace of mind. I don’t quite have the tools or space but a buddy does . How big a job is it to change to the hydraulic kit? I’m guessing even just updating the hydraulic kit with cam plate takes hours with removing tank and rocker boxes etc Also did you replace the cam bearings

Makes me even more glad for swapping my twincam for an evo. Great info though.

Nice matter of fact & informative video. I gotta fix my 02 heritage for that reason & like this video more than any other I've seen. Thank u. Im gonna go ahead and do the hydraulic upgrade since my chain also seems to have some wear. If I gotta replace more than just pads it cost basically the same toupgrade it all.

05 was the last of the spring tensioners. 06 Dyna series got the hydrologic tensioner. 07 they were standard through the brand.

I just went through this on my twin cam I don't mind the outer chain but I always said there was absolutely no reason for the inner chain that one should have been gear no question

@sasazurnic3670

3 жыл бұрын

why is no one making that kit?!!!

@jamessouthworth1699

3 жыл бұрын

@@sasazurnic3670 I have contacted every cam manufacturer I could find from Edelbrock to S&S, Woods, and a few others asking would they make a cam that's gear on the inside and chain on the outside and no one would touch it. So until they do that I'm stuck with chains because a twin cam 88 has a faulty Crank that can develop more run out as time goes on. You might be within spec for a Gear Drive setup today and out of spec later with no way of knowing until you destroy your Gear Drive. So for now I settled for putting in tensioner shoes made of a better material and installing an S&S TC3 oil pump that tolerates more crank run-out than the original oil pump.

@magnehoiberg

3 жыл бұрын

@@sasazurnic3670 exactly. i have contacted everyone bout that. would be gold...

Thanks for the video. Great info. Getting ready to install Feuling cam plate kit. What would you do with the crankshaft problems?? Replace with S&S or have someone weld and balance??

What is the recommended inspection period for oil adjusted tensioners?

Long time rider and Harley enthusiast ! I recently picked up a 2003 Superglide, as the $ budget gave me permission. Ive had several Softails and a Streetglide previously, but this bike was right with only 7100 miles on it. Anyway, Ive seen lots about the cam tensioners lately, and will upgrade to hydraulic at 20k. I like your full job, rather than cutting pushrods.. I will be doing the job myself, alongside a mechanic friend. You are a detailed narrator and positive on explanation ! I also am a DIY aquarium builder on my youtube channel. I hit your sub button and look forward to following your new videos..

I'm about to switch my 05 ST over to a gear drive but I heard tell if you polish the casting marks off the chains you get more life out of the stock pads...thats if you decide to keep them

Do you check cam or flywheel runout?

Great explanation!!!!

When the twin cam first came out, the local dealer tried to sell me their first model. They took that bike to have it dyno'd and the cam chest blew up! I kept my evo for 30 years. I had enough problems with my evo. Just bought a M8. So far so 👍

When Harley Davidson got away from the EVO and started using all those chains and tensioners in lieu of gears was a nightmare. HD motorcycles are to labor intensive even for the mechanics that work on them. And that huge primary chain rotating in oil is played out 1950’s/1960’s technology other manufacturers got away from years ago and went to four valves per cylinder with two spark plugs HD talks about in 2017 with the Milwaukee 8 after the fact. Gear cam kits helped Harley with this issue, their new revolution max engine eliminated all problematic issues of older engine and they have single oil fill and drain holes with full liquid cooling and full counter balancing thank goodness for someone getting smart.

Bring back the EVO.

@magnehoiberg

3 жыл бұрын

this is not a big issu, it was in the early once, but early evo was shit also, late shovel was good...

Great video

Thanks for great video 🙏🏼 you said the bike is 90k miles , is that mean those cam chain pad never been change before ? I got 08 road king (24k miles) do i need to change the pads yet or not ? Thanks again

Can anyone tell me will a 07 hydronic plate bolt right up in place of 05 spring tension plate ?

Getting new cams,oil pump and cam gears in my 96 cubic inch Twin Cam.

Like the video but I wished you recommended replacing the inner cam bearings and lifters as well as the chain and tensioners.

What did this job cost??

I put the SE plate and pump in and S&S Tensioners in mine.

Fixing to do one of my other bikes for shits and giggles. I'm going to try the gear drive on that one. I may machine me something to gear drive the cams as well.

Thanks, good video. I am about to check the tensioner on my 2005 Fatboy and upgrade to hydraulic so your info is appreciated. Why won’t gear driven cams work with chain driven pinion on bikes with unacceptable crank run out?

@zerkmotors3096

4 жыл бұрын

When I’m 64, Assuming that auto spell didn’t throw your question off, unacceptable crank run out means that you have crank issues that will have to repaired before considering any gear upgrades because if your crank output shaft wobbles it will destroy direct gear drives it powers to anything. As the crank wobbles it will press tightly on the driven gear and then pull away from it causing uneven wear and stress on the gears. It will likely make terrible noise and eventually fail assuming it works at all, the severity of the run out would decide the symptoms and ending results on a case by case basis per motorcycle that has run out issues. Please reply if I didn’t clearly answer you question.

@whenim6462

4 жыл бұрын

Zerk Motors I understand your answer, but I was asking if it could be possible to run gears on the cams and eliminating the inside tensioner and run a chain and tensioner from the outer cam gear to the pinion gear on a bike with excessive crank run out? Maybe a stupid question, but seems like a way to eliminate a tensioner that’s hard to get to and make it simple to change the outer tensioner on a bike that couldn’t run outer gear drive. Thanks for responding. I’m always learning from your videos.

@zerkmotors3096

4 жыл бұрын

When I’m 64, Ahh, I understand. I would say yes, actually, S&S makes a fully geared cam setup. You can look it up under S&S gear drive.

@danfecke

4 жыл бұрын

Great question. Inner gear and outer chain seems like a good compromise.

How I permanently fixed both my twin cam chain tensioners. I sold them and bought a 98 Evo Farboy and problem solved.

Where IS that item on Harleys Recommended Inspection intervals? Because I cant find it...

@zerkmotors3096

5 жыл бұрын

Great question sir, Our apologies for not being clear. The reference in the video about recommended intervals for tension pad inspection is a collaborative recommendation as a result of the unquestionable problem with the tensioner pads. In other words, it is not something you will find in your manual. Sorry for the confusion.

@clownpocket

4 жыл бұрын

Charlie Lord Basically Harley fucked up and made a flawed design. You can’t easily go to gear driven cams to permanently fix the whole mess, because the tolerances in amount of runout in the main shaft is so high. Just finding out about all this myself. Looking at buying an Evo bike.

@John-ob7dh

5 ай бұрын

I think recommended check every 10,000 They say the cyco pads are far better than the HD ones .

'89 XLH1200: I have a sound that sounds like a metal object ringing a bell sound, thought it was keys hitting the horn shroud, but it's not. I'm wondering if it's cam chain play???

@BastardX13

3 жыл бұрын

Xlh evolution motor is gear drive cams. Bad lifter? Broken valve spring, worn cam etc. Goid luck

If you can't or don't want to work on your motorcycle your not much good in my book. Man the hell up. Now as far as a twin cam , these are good engines. The adjuster shoes were just crappy. If good materials had been used they would easily go 50 or 60 thousand miles before inspection. You can also go with the S&S upgrade. If new adjustable pushrods are to be installed then there is no need for the upper end or tank removal and this swap can be done in about an hour, start to finish. Us old bikers love working on our bikes. Its a form of pride. Sure the fuys do farm out their repairs to me from time to time due to work restraints and they know I'm going to take great care with their motorcycle. I've been a master tech for over 40 years. I'm very familiar with all the Harley engines as well as British, Japanese, and European. Get out there and work on your machine. Guys like the fella doing this video help you guys. Learn!!!!!

How many hours (charged shop hours to the customer) are involved in the replacement of the cam tensioners? If I am going to have them looked at, you might as well change them. I do like the idea of pulling the tank and pushrods vs. cutting the pushrods.... I'm coming up on 36k on my '08 Street Glide and will need to address before too long....

@jamalperdomo7542

5 жыл бұрын

I am currently gettin them done by Harley Davidson. It is a very pricey item to get fixed your 08 model should be fine it doesn't have this old design it has the hydraulic system in place which will give you about 50,000 miles before you need to check them. The motorcycles between 99 and 06 have the Twin Cam which has the spring loaded tensioners. I am upgrading mine to the hydraulic system. I have a 06 Ultra Classic and Harley is doing the job with parts and labor for a total of about 1,500. it sucks it has to be done because if they do break inside the engine they said that your looking at least 5,000 to fix it.

@08StreetGlide

5 жыл бұрын

Jamal Perdomo yea I understand about the hyd vs spring.....mine I would like to have them done around 50k.....I’ve considered going to gear drive, but think more economical staying more like stock. I’m thinking now at the same time upgrading the oil pump, possibly new cam plate and oil pump....S&S, Screaming Eagle or Fueling(spelling).....if I get new plate and oil pump this time, do the gear drive next go around

@turbomustang84

5 жыл бұрын

With that few miles I would just pull the cover yourself and inspect the tensioners using a mirror to inspect the rear tensioner. I would almost guarantee your's will need nothing but for piece of mind checking is not a bad idea . Mine were the old type and at 40,000 miles mine were fine but I upgraded to the screaming eagle hydraulic setup just because it's a better system .

if pinion shaft tolerance allows, put a gear drive in. never worry again.

very instructive video, I will check mine.

Cut pushrods with bolt cutters and use paper clips and rubber bands to hold the lifters up. Saves you a lot of time. Reinstall with new pushrod tubes and adjustable pushrods and you're done

Would it run o.k. With the tensioners removed ?

@agawamguy

Жыл бұрын

I've done a lot of reading on this subject and it seems that the only reason those plastic shoes were installed (interior & Exterior)was to reduce chain noise, they're not keeping the chain tight so it doesn't pop off of the sprocket. But hey, what do I know?

@haroldyazzie3538

Жыл бұрын

Your timing will jump without the tensioners.

Skip to the 10 minute mark. Everything else is redundant dialogue prior to that.

Hello Mr.Eccello, We are in the business of repair and education. There are many who believe in cutting pushrods. We have seen it hundreds of times as I’m sure you have. While there is a time and a place for cutting pushrods, for most applications, keeping solid pushrods and removing the tank will cost the same if not less and will keep the motorcycle in its original factory parameters. This is the shortest answer I can offer you. If you require more, please look us up and give us a call. We will be happy to engage in a reasonable professional conversation with you.

@bobuccello6481

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the fast reply and I do understand what your saying.

@EarlGuyton425

6 жыл бұрын

I for one will never cut the push rods. Anytime at 20k or more miles and one needs tensioner replacement, it is best to remove tank and rocker covers and check for wear there as well. Plus rockers are cheap if needed for your twin 88 engines, so why not check this while at it?

@jackcates9074

5 жыл бұрын

On mine, I reuse the harley push rods. I would think, adjusting the aftermarket tubes would be a pain in the ass, also what if it comes loose, as one did, on the road, Jack W. Cates Calgary Canada

@kennethwise7108

5 жыл бұрын

If the Motor Company would have done a better job designing the Twinkie engines they wouldn't have lost so many customers. Sportster engines have been gear driven since they were first introduced, why did they come up with this idiotic design? Just my 2 cents... I LOVE MY EVO ❤

@danjones9007

5 жыл бұрын

As you state, future inspections will be required. With that fact being stated, adjustable pushrods are a one time cost and will simplify all future inspections. Since I’m keeping my bike forever, investing $150 for Screamin Eagle adjustable pushrods was a good idea for me.

I'm late.... But check the inner cam bearings when the cams are out.

For what it is worth I am a Harley Davidson man also have the luxury of having 40 year old Honda Goldwing guess which one I take on a long ride

@thecentralscrutinizer5105

3 жыл бұрын

ur 1978 purple moped???

book mechanic alert. Just cut the pushrods with a bolt cutter. leave the rocker boxes on. replace with adjustable rods. I have done this job a few times. This guy is going by the book. He would never make money as a flat rate tech.

Wonder why the second cam is not just driven by a front sprocket also. Thus deleting the back chain and tensioner.. ?? Seams so simple

I junked mine at 30k went to a hydraulic system. No more tensioner BS.

Simple and straight forward solution to all this dont buy a Harley , who thought of making can chain tensioners outa plastic f idiot ...and yes I have owned HDs never again , go Jap every time ..

@EllisBurton3339

4 жыл бұрын

@@aaronszymanski4589 Good points , and I have to say early Suzukis used plastic internal parts that failed regularly so i guess buy the bike you teally want abd enjoy I had a 75 Kawasaki Z1b for 30 years and loved it ..😏

Heres some secrets that for some reason no other human that I know of has figured this out. On the 99 to 06 spring tensioner twin cam you can simply remove those tensioners and run those engines. Now on the 07 up twin ca hydraulic tensioners you cant just remove those because you would lose all your oil pressure when running engine so what you do is unbloth them and plug the holes that feed oil to those tensioners and then bolt back on without the tensioner. I am a Hydril co self made engineer and know this. All that gear set with chain is on these is a midget version of what would be for examply a 65 Chevrolet 283 cam and cranks timing chain which used no tensioner and thise ran fine with one inch or greater slack on the non drive sides of thise chains. Take the engine in the video for eample and if this guy would pour oil on that top gear and chain and start that engine and you would see it would run just fine. Those tensioners were nothing more than a marketing idea from a NON engineer back in 1999 that said if you do this it will make engine quieter and another guy behind some desk agreed becaue the after marketer agreed to split the money with him. These engines will run fine without these tensioners. Also the hydraulic tensioner starting on 2007 was WOSE and not an improvement becaue it sacrificed oil pressure and when it failed took all of your oil pressure away. LISTEN or stay stupid..Your choice

@patriot12189

6 жыл бұрын

Earl Guyton I would be very interested seeing a motor run with out these

@EarlGuyton425

6 жыл бұрын

They run just fine without the tensioners. My sons 1999 dyna had a outer tensioner scraping against the outer cam chain 4 years ago and I removed both spring tensioners and reinstalled and he has ran it for 8,425 miles since and it is fine. Those chains have slight slack in them same as engines in cars that used cam gear and crank gear chains in the past in where the non stressed pull side which would be the right side on Harley twin cams is designed for allwance of some slack on the non stressed side and was engineered tis way. Tensioners were an after the engineer after marketing idea to try and mae these engines quieter and served no other purpose. These chains will ot jump out of gear teeth as many believe. We checked my sons Dyna at the miles used I mentioned above and these two chains are still the same and have no more slack. The reason I put my sons engine back together without them is because I am a Hydril company engineer and knew they weren't necessary. The engineers that designed those twin cam gears and chains at that particular time had no knowledge of this tensioner idea aother marketer introduced later. For some reason novice persons seem to think these tensioners were installed to keep the chain from falling off. When these bikes are at highway speed those tensioners are thrown back by the speed of the chains force and are actually running as same as without them.

@patriot12189

6 жыл бұрын

Very interesting would love to see a 99 to 2006 running without tensioner and judge wear on cams and timing afterwards

@EarlGuyton425

6 жыл бұрын

Timing would not change because legth of chain is same. Wear on cams per lobe or teeth would not change but would would be lesser wear due to left side of outer chai would no longer be pushed inward and be required to flex inward and then outward after rubbing against the plastic shoe. The chain has some slac due to if too tight the round links would ride too far inward between gear teeth and actually produce wear because enough oil could not reach the inward cam gear teeth.. Take the two outer gears as example and install them together as they have to be allowing equal slack on both sides of the chain and regardless if you push ine side in farther than the other as in a spring tensioner your timing will remain based on length of chain regardless of which side is flexed more and the right side of chain will always be flexed tightest being the crank turns clockwise, so timing will stay same as when installed based on that fixed reality. And easy way to address the novice mined person would be to mae a 10 thousand dollar bet. This 10 k bet would say without the tensioner installd and with one hammer and chisel IF they can get the chain to move from one tooth to another or come loose and come off without damaging gear teeth or chan they will receive the 10 dollars. Based on these rules they could not get the chain off or change to another gear tooth, so this means the chain cannot jump time based on tooth or fall off. Also the chain would not wobble. Density nnd stress force point would disallow that. The cam lobe on the inner cam for example produces opposing force against counter clockwise movement of the outer gear due to pushing against the hydraulic lifter as it turns. For the chain to wobble would require oe gear or the other to flex/rock bac and forth to create the wobble reality. So based on density and angle the looser side f chain would remain on the chain being slightly outer in its hang regardless of turning speed/RPMs. You cannot be a metals and assembly and stress metals engineer without also being educated and knowledgeable of physics and other realities. From facing the cam side of the twin 88 engine when you install these two outer gears and chain and with it being fact it will turn clockwise, means the rigt side of chain is tight and gear lines.marks for timing are aligned and chain cannot drop off of lower gear or change teeth means that timing is fixed and cannot alter other than wear of inner gear teeth which would still eventually alter timing even with tensioners installed due to chain being slightly more longer due to inner tooth wear. Now focus on the video above where it shows the cam and chain o his engine after tensioner was removed and lets see him manualy move that chain to another gear tooth and remove the chain. It cannot be dome without damaging chain or gear teeth. A person can either think this far or they cannot

@martincvitkovich724

5 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't the slack cause a certain amount of timing to off when engine braking? Back fire?

Be more helpful if the video pic was the Same cam as in the video

I have said so many times that whenever i cracked open a cam chest I install a gear cam set in and call it a day. Now why Harley does not use gear cams is beyond me.

@magnehoiberg

3 жыл бұрын

runout on them will crack the gears over time, and they are make more noise. best would be gears on inside and chain on the outside. nobody makes that.... with the new cam bearings outside and adjustable rods, this would be a pice of coffecake.

@28select

3 жыл бұрын

CRANK SHAFT RUNOUT! DISASTER JUST FOUND A HOME! 😬

We are going to shoot a KZread video ; of a twin-cam 88 running with the cam chain tensioners pulled. Then, we are going to look for a Mil-8 motor ; pull the hydraulic tensioners out ; plug the oil feed ; and re-shoot another video of this motor running without those chain tensioners.......

A little to clean for credibility? Where is the oil film?

Harley junk! If Harley would have pin the crankshaft like S&S they could have used gear driven system but with the money saving pressed fit crankshaft Harley needs to use these plastic tensioners . To check the inner tensioner is a major job, this type of maintenance is way to hard for most people cause these tensioners could last long or not there's no way of knowing the life of them. Don't forget Harley dealers will fuck you every time.

@lynskyrd

4 жыл бұрын

YUP - you nailed it... and Harley should have pinned it- just like you said. To make matters worse- they designed this piece of garbage and then refused to acknowledge the issue but- they'll gladly sell you the ScreaminEagle 'upgrade' kit cuz- well, $24K wasn't enough to spend for the bike apparently. My 2006 Nightrain WILL be my LAST Harley. I still have both my Evos and they run awesome, both with over 60K on them - one of them needed a front head gasket and a stator; the other, rear cylinder rings and blew a rivot plate on the clutch--- that's it- 60K on each bike.

@John-ob7dh

5 ай бұрын

My 2002 fat boy is solid crank . I wonder why they did not stick with that.

@goodboyringo9716

5 ай бұрын

@@John-ob7dh .... 2002 was the last year for Tenken bearings also. Money , makes the world go around.

@John-ob7dh

5 ай бұрын

@@goodboyringo9716 Yep it seems that way .I read they used timken bearings from 1955. (The old saying ), if it ain't broke , don't fix it comes to mind )

@goodboyringo9716

5 ай бұрын

@@John-ob7dh ... Not only that but Harley doesn't support ( with parts ) any older bikes . I have a 2000 Road King that I bought new . It has about 25,000 miles and now I can't buy parts from Harley. This is only one reason I don't respect HD any more. I'will never buy a new Harley again.

look....on my twin cam , I pulled both tensioners out, and threw them away. That was almost 20 thousand miles ago........... Why don't you do a video of a motor, running without them ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

@zerkmotors3096

3 жыл бұрын

Good morning Mr. Moore, Our original cam chain tensioner video was not a video to open dialogue on whether or not cam chain tensioners are necessary on Harley motors. The tensioner feature has already been decided by the designers and engineers at Harley. The video intended to share information and educate viewers on how they work, and their importance per the design. With regard to your comment about running these motors without tensioners, we simply don’t recommend it. Timing chains on all engines will wear and stretch over time. The tensioner in any engine is meant to take up that stretch so that the chain, or belt in some cases, does not jump time and destroy the engine. In your case, 20,000 miles is simply not a lot of mileage for any motor so it is not a good measure of your success. Further, if you did not measure deflection of your chain before you removed the tensioners and subsequently measured deflection after 20,000 miles you cannot suggest all is well. Further still, older twin cam engines used a spring tensioner as opposed to newer tensioning systems that use oil pressure. We cannot comment on your motorcycle as you did not reveal which one of these systems you have, however, an owner that would remove a tensioning system that tensions with oil pressure would have to block off the oil passage holes or run the risk of oil pressure loss across the entire system. This long winded point means to suggest that your motorcycle does not represent all the different types of tensioning systems which further supports that the removal of these tensioners is not as simple for everyone and not a good idea. In closing Mr. Moore, we certainly don’t mean to suggest that you have not personally experienced success in the removal of your tensioners. Since we have a small following of viewers and listeners we have a responsibility to protect everybody who reads these comments. That being said, while you may have successfully removed your tensioners you have also removed your engine’s ability to take up the slack of the timing chains as they age and stretch. The removal of these tensioners can give your engine a greater chance of jumping time and we suggest that you re-install your tensioners per Harley specifications. A simple inspection of these tensioners every 30,000 to 35,000 miles while keeping them installed in the engine is all that would be needed to make sure that all areas are covered. Mr. Moore, it is for these reasons that we will not be making a video of a Harley twin cam motor running without tensioners. In all this we do hope that these tensioners systems continue to improve over time so that the past issues of the tensioner pads breaking apart or wearing down prematurely is no longer an issue. Zerk Motors supports factory approved improvments that enhance the riders experience and enjoyment of their motorcycles.

@garymoore3497

3 жыл бұрын

@@zerkmotors3096 Engineers at Harley Davidson are skeemers.... I am not a skeemer... Skeemers trying to control their little world. I am not a skeemer. I only show just how pathetic their little plans really are....

Why didn't you save your customer money. Leave the Gas tank on and rocker boxes. Cut the push rod and replace with adj push rods ? This is the reason a lot of guys learn to do their own work. I'm sure you know that

@zerkmotors3096

6 жыл бұрын

Bob Uccello, Please see our response.

so y didnt harley put bearing gears instead of plastic? ( cuz they're cheap mofo's

@wvmtns6400

4 жыл бұрын

Because they have to keep their mechanics and company in business.