Hamskea Limb Cord Attachment Bracket : Removed!
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The limb cord attachment bracket did not work for us on the 2020 Mathews VXR with a Hamskea Trinity rest. On our previous video showing the installation of the bracket, we were not aware the brackets change in limb attachment position would have such substantial effect to the downrange results. Although this presented some troubleshooting, we wanted to share what we learned for you all to consider before install, or help you in watching your results if you've already installed it.
As mentioned in the video, this was from Hamskea Engineering and was very helpful in understanding the observations we had made while shooting with the bracket installed:
"Over the past year I have been doing a lot of testing with the various Mathews Bows I have to dial in the specific results that occur when the activation cord attachment location is changed. We know that different bow models will have different amounts of limb flex and that will even vary with how each specific bow is set up. For example, the limbs will flex a greater distance on a V3 than it will on the TRX38. You can measure the amount the limbs flex through the draw cycle by comparing the ATA of the bow at brace vs the ATA at full draw. It is also common knowledge that the limb tip travels the furthest with less travel being experienced as the attachment point moves away from the limb tip. Limb Driven rests require a certain amount of travel to allow the cord to go slack and allow the launcher to raise to the full upright position. Any travel beyond what is required will be time that the launcher is staying in the full upright position and guiding the arrow through the shot cycle. We have always recommended customers to aim for 50-70% guidance so that the arrow is guided until it is up to a speed that it will be able to guide itself. Too little guidance and the arrow will not fly as consistent, too much guidance and you can run into contact issues as the fletchings pass by the launcher.
From the testing we also found that a big factor that hadn't previously been considered was the speed that the limb is traveling during the shot and the associated speed that the launcher is pulled down. Since the limb tip travels a further distance over the shot cycle compare to locations further down the limb, the speed that it is traveling is much faster. For example, I recorded the following information with my personal V3 31 set at 29.5" draw and 67lb. The axle(0.5" from the limb tip) would travel at a speed of approximately 28fps during the shot cycle, while a location 2" from the limb tip would travel at approximately 18fps. This speed difference has a lot of impact on how much shock is transferred to the rest during the shot. Not only does this affect the lifespan of the internal components, but can also make a difference in the audible noise that is heard from the rest during the shot cycle.
Factoring in all of this, we found that the best location for the limb driven cord on the newer Mathews hunting bows(VXR, V3, and V3X) is about 2-2.5" down the limb. With my personal V3 I found that when I moved the cord from the axle to 2.25" down the limb, by groups decreased and the bow system was much quieter on the shot. These findings have been confirmed by several customers and industry members who also moved their activation cord to test the results. It is for this reason that we recommend customers attach the activation cord 2-2.5" down the limb on these newer Mathews Hunting Bows.
It is also important to note that I still attach the activation cord at the axle with our Limb Cord Attachment Bracket on my TRX36 and TRX38 after testing the amount of limb flex on these bows specifically. On these bows, we didn't experience near the amount of limb flex and attaching the cord near the axle was still very accurate."
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I have a mathews phase 4 29 , phase 4 33 and a mathews Triax and all three of them I jave the Hamskea cables tied to my yoke pucks and have no issues at all ... There are ways to tune for proper timing the rest itself ....None the less , glad you got things figured out on your set up
Same issue with my epsilon and my APA black mamba. I get contact with fletching every now and then. Started tinkering with where to tie the string to the limb. Seems to be helping.
@TrueLineOutdoors
4 ай бұрын
Man hope you got it figured out!!
I have a Matthews V3X 29. Tried the bracket. Had the same issues. Called Hamskea and I was told the same thing. I tied it in the same place and tunning corrected. I talked to two pro shops in my area before buying the bracket and no warning. Let's just say I am a bit frustrated I spent money on it. But I learned allot in the process.
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment Jeff, cool seeing we aren't the only ones. seems that only really sophisticated shops are up on this. I think the bracket can work but you'd have to potentially sacrifice potentially draw weight/length or mess with dampener/spring combos. Glad we could learn thru the process at least -Tim
Bowtech SS34.... Same problem...I have the Epsilon... 2" movement away from the cam axel and problem solved. Accuracy increases, arrow flight like a dart and much quieter. Hamskea should put out some bow specific info to inform their customers how to properly tune these rests. It seems to me that the normal practice is by guess and by golly.
@TrueLineOutdoors
4 ай бұрын
Interesting thanks for the heads up.
Like last comment, I too own a V3X 29”…but that’s where the similarity ends. I do not have any of the issues you both are having with the Hamskea limb accessory. I purchased and installed on my owm and instead of mounting the accessory onto the lower limb, I mounted it to my upper limb and have zero arrow contact or issues. I’ve had zero issues with this adapter and have been slinging arrows for the past 12+ months error free.
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
Hey Alex that's great! It seems like it's all a "potential" , and there are recommendations for "optimum performance". Not everyone who installs bracket sees or experiences an issue. Glad it's working for you I wish it did for me because I liked the smooth connection. Just too bad it affected the timing of my rest dropping away -Tim
Same problem on my V3X 33. reattached to the limb as well and problem solved.
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
Tony thanks for watching. Who installed yours? Did you do it yourself? Just curious. -Tim
@tonyt132
Жыл бұрын
@@TrueLineOutdoors initially it was installed at a pro shop but I moved and reinstalled it myself.
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
@@tonyt132 gotcha that was why I asked. I think a lot of pro shops are putting these things on by default. Welp we learned something. Happy shooting sir, again thanks for watching!
Forget the brackets for newer Mathews bows. Tie off to the yoke splitter instead. It’s still limb driven and makes for a much cleaner install. No timing issues. On top, ditch the clip and use a taut-line hitch instead. It’s tool-less and works perfectly in the field.
@TrueLineOutdoors
4 ай бұрын
Man this is a great idea thank you!
@RKeaton
4 ай бұрын
I wouldn't do this @@TrueLineOutdoors ... it's entirely dependent on draw length & poundage (overall limb flex). Might work for some, but not all. Just like the limb tip bracket. Also will introduce noise, vibration, etc from the yoke harness... Best bet is to use the limb pad and time that bad boy optimally.
@Aldocello1
Ай бұрын
Thats how I have my cables on all 3 of my mathews and no issues
So what's actually wrong with the bracket? Position the dampener as close to the bottom of the cord as possible. Make sure all of the stretch is out of the cord.
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
Hey Clay thanks for watching. From our experience the bracket attaches the cord too far down towards the end of the limb , so the amount of limb travel affects the timing of the rest dropping out of the way. Read the video description for more if you want! But to your point it may not affect all bows the same based on dampener, stretch, etc etc -Tim
@claywhitten4626
Жыл бұрын
@@TrueLineOutdoors it's attached at the bottom most part of the limb as well even if not using the bracket but rather using the supplied sticky pad. I have the Phase 4 and haven't noticed any issues.
@mojoe8005
Жыл бұрын
@@claywhitten4626moving the string up or down the limb changes the timing of the rest hamskea says ideal distance is 2-2 1/2 inches from end of limb as a staring point
Did you keep the dampener after moving to 2-2.5?
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
Hey Steve thanks for watching. I dropped the dampener before the move and then kept it off after the move to 2.5" on limb. This has been the right set up for me! Are you going thru the same? -Tim
@steveboggs2595
Жыл бұрын
@@TrueLineOutdoors yea, I have a V3 31 and getting a lot of nock right travel and some nock high. Moving the rest was having no effect so seeing your video gave me a new option to try. I also reached out to hamskea and they said the same thing, but they suggested I keep the dampener. I can try it both ways…but one thing I am only running 60lbs so perhaps I do not need to move it as far from the tips with less speed I dunno we’ll see. Thanks for the vid!
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
@@steveboggs2595 absolutely, good point with the 60lb set up. I might be able to put dampener back on but I'm flying perfect now. Hope you get it figured out with the dampener/ spring removal . -Tim
@steveboggs2595
10 ай бұрын
I definitely removed the spring, went with the prussic knot technique.
Has there been same issues with the epsilon?
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching. My personal experience does not cover into the epsilon but I would imagine same physics/ engineering is at play so you'd have similar issues or tuning process. I do think epsilon comes without the spring so you may be have a different experience by default there without that. I believe hamskea recommendations would be same for epsilon and newer Mathews bows. We have a video that Kyle did covering differences between the two tests by hamskea as well! -Tim
@TheBackwoodshunter
Жыл бұрын
I run it on a V3X33 / Epsilon and I was getting vein contact periodically through testing with spray foot powder noticed it was the lower right vein (DCA Super Saber) by setting my D loop to dead center of the string from the axles and re leveling the arrow on the rest problem solved Perfect bullet holes through paper. I guess what I’m saying is there is Many factors that can cause erratic arrow flight ie. what vane , vane height , tie off point , how much helical / offset , D loop point , rest height , torque and so on. I really like the Hamskea tie off point so I guess I was determined to use it. The Paper Doesn’t Lie. Great video thx.
@TrueLineOutdoors
Жыл бұрын
@@TheBackwoodshunter I like the concept of it that bracket so much too that I was determined to make it work. Good call on re centering d loop! That's so true there are 100 factors. You're right on epsilon coming without the spring... I think there are many paths you can take to tune a bow with this bracket in the equation - but for me simply reverting to the old school limb attachment knot around the limb helped me immediately. Thanks for watching and all the good heads up information in your comment!👌 -Tim