Your videos got me interested in DMR and I’m running a 878 and a hotspot. Having a lot of fun with it but you’re right about the learning curve.

@EvgeniX.

6 ай бұрын

strangely enough, an OpenGD77 flashed md-uv390 is as easy with dmr as learning the basic terms. heck its even have promiscuous mode where it listens on all talkgroups and colorcodes at once, and you just provide the frequency and the timeslot

ICOM has sold a ton a DStar radios.. It's not going anywhere

@Russ_N4RTD

2 жыл бұрын

And they continue selling them. There has been a resurgence in D-Star in my area and I have at least a half dozen folks I know who bought an ID-52. I like D-Star... At least I'm not changing the volume control constantly like on DMR.

I enjoy D-Star. Telling hams to scrap D-Star does not help anyone. N4UED

I have used them all. They all have pros and cons. They will all be around in 5 years. I currently have C4FM and Wires X, and Dstar in my shack and both work great. I ditched DMR a while back because the code plugs are a PITA and there seems to be a contest on how loud you can make your audio on DMR.

I love D-Star. The voice quality is like someone is right next to you. I’ve never had any issues.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

D-Star is undoubtedly the worst in audio quality. Try some others and compare. 😊

@GingerKid3500

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC In the Dallas area I’ve never heard anyone on the other systems.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

I always find that interested. The regionalization of what’s popular. In Minnesota it’s DMR followed by C4FM. Colorado is C4FM followed closely by DMR. Neither area had a lot of D-Star activity.

@GingerKid3500

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC D-Star is a little thin in the northeast also. However I can each Dallas to Albany all the time with perfect audio quality. South Korea has been the only place where the audio was choppy but not bad.

@bentonjackson8698

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC I think the popularity of DMR in MN is due to the hard work of David Ventura and his associates in the MNDMR group. For DMR to work it needs a lot of support.

M17 is the future. Open Source will mean constant improvement. All Digital Modes suffer from registration - they all bite.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

I hope M17 takes off, but I just can’t understand how they'll come to dominate the market.

@charleswoods2996

2 жыл бұрын

I like that "DMR Smartphone"! But it seems they want to get people to order now and then bill you when it comes available and then ship it! My income situation just won't allow for that. And, are people (operators) aware of the "microchip shortage" that's hampering Amateur Radio sales of equipment?

@batoniarz

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC We are slowly getting there! ~SP5WWP

@USAFJUNKIE

2 жыл бұрын

You don't have to register for YSF. You just need to be a licensed ham and own a Yaesu radio capable of fusion. That said, I think it would be great if they licensed other manufacturers to use their codec so people have more options for what radio they'd like to use.

@ag1382

2 жыл бұрын

Isn’t D-Stat open source?

Sorry, but DSTAR is not going anywhere. The newer Dstar radios have improved vocoders and the audio is much better than it was 10 years ago. The Kenwood D74 absolutely sounds much better than the old Icom 92AD which is now a paperweight. Yes, registration can be a pain, but it’s done once and that’s it. DMR is a very steep learning curve and C4FM repeaters are disappearing. Our club just trashed another Yaesu repeater after it failed.

@yaroze

2 жыл бұрын

I own all 3 modes discussed, I even own the D74, ID880h, ID4100 and ID5100, and VW Mode C4FM is very clear compared to D-Star, the DN mode is just a 'little' better sounding, and I own a few C4FM radios, FTM400D, FT1, FT2, FT3 and FT5. I am waiting for the ID52a and will see how that one sounds. So far out of all of the radios I have that are digital, the one I like the best, ironically is my DMR handheld in Analog mode, the 878plus, because of the remote PTT for bluetooth operation, with my motorcycle helmet, and it's loud clean audio from it's onboard speaker.

@pedrocatalan9814

2 жыл бұрын

@@yaroze lol. Yes. I use my 878 Bluetooth to the cardo headset too.

@chadvandam7179

Жыл бұрын

@@yaroze I know they don’t make it anymore but does the KENWOOD have embedded speech? I am blind you’d like to pick up one of those used it’s the only thing that seems to work for blind people!😢

@yaroze

Жыл бұрын

@@chadvandam7179 I apologize for the late reply, I moved recently, and had to find the box with the kenwood in it, Yes, I can confirm it has embedded speech, in fact I just set it up to tell me the call sign of anyone who kerchunks it on D-Star mode. Another Radio to look at is the new ID-52 from Icom, it has the same function that I set on the D74

@taylorlavata2837

2 ай бұрын

I have the latest icom if-52E the audio quality is far better and superior compared to DMR and fusion

Great video, thanks !

Thank you for this, very informative.

Dmr is p25 and is really good and has really good far range :)

I’m with you Matt. I’ve been using Fusion/Wires-X for over 2 years. About to get into DMR soon as well.

Hello Matt. Moab Utah calling. ;-) From my stand point, a year ago I swore off any digital modes. But after dipping my toes into DMR, which was the first digital mode I got into, Fusion and DMR are a toss up, I like them both. I now have two Fusion nodes (ftm 100 and a ftm 300) in the shack and a hotspot for DMR. I use all three simultaneously.These modes also inspired me into FT8 which I also now enjoy. I don't think I will be getting into D star anytime soon. I'm really glad I started with DMR as it was a good lesson into the digital modes. Great video Matt. And BTW, one of the nodes is home roomed on skyhub. I use an hr 200 for that node, and so we now have the Moab Room on 82572, which is where my PDN is parked when I'm not surfing other Fusion nodes and rooms. My DMR is parked mostly on talk group 91 when idle. I look forward to talking with you soon. 73 and all the best, Mark / NQ0A...

I agree with your last comments regarding a "use what you got" system. As a complete newbie trying to make sense of the digital options, I am appalled at the steep steep learning curve with DMR, plus the incompatibilities of the various systems. Leaning towards C4FM system Fusion because of that. Thank's so much for an instructive video.

Thanks. You brought some clarity to the digital fog. One day I was practicing cw on the air with another ham, enjoying the experience. And overnight, this digital world exploded around me. I wanted to try at least one of the big three, but which one. After watching your videos, I think the Fusion route might be for me. I don't think these digital systems will ever be as much fun as contacting someone through less than ideal circumstances with a cw key and a "dit dah dit". Again, thanks for the insight.

What is your opinion about Yaesu Ft-5D worth it or would I regret the purchase? I am fairly new to ham radio enough to get into trouble and make bad decisions. I have heard something bad about the scanning issues and don't want to get burned....have the F70 fyi. Thanks appreciate it

I just got a gd77 and I have a DMR repeater in my area and although my place is covered with trees. I can still hear it loud and clear.

I'm Dean, CE4JDM, in Chile. Are there any scheduled times or dates for any of these digital modes?

Thank you!

Went with DMR. No other digital mode repeaters near me. Plus last time I looked, there were more DMR repeaters around (53), vs. Fusion (20) in the state. Agree with your comments on M17 - having worked in the communications industry for 42 years I see several challenges no matter how good M17 may turn out to be, (i.e., open source, quality, etc.): 1. vendors will ask "show me the money" before implementing something brand new (small market opportunity), 2. there is no ecosystem (repeaters, radios, ... etc.) to support it, 3. the effort to create an ecosystem will be large in a fairly small industry.

I've only used C4FM and I like it a lot, but have an interest in all things digital in ham radio. I'd kill for a concise book on the subject.

I am interested in M17. I am an open source guy. I have a Anytone 878 DMR HT and I like it. I am interested in Yaesu with the programming. I am comfortable with CPS of my 878, but it is cumbersome if I take a trip and make a side trip - I have to setup the code plug for the new location. I also see Yaesu has repeaters more places.

I believe DStar and DMR use the same codec. However, the data is modulated differently and I think any differences we here have more to do with different hardware and shortcuts taken by the manufacturers. Other differences may come from error handling, bit rates etc but since most of these are used with hotspots, they will usually be getting a good signal and will sound similar. The differences between the two are like transporting a cassette tape via car or train. Each one will be the same in the end, one may go a little further or sound better under less than optimal circumstances perhaps. But its still the same cassette tape you are listening to. The rest of your video is spot on. As a bit of trivia, US Robotics used to supply dialup modems on the cheap if you ran and operated a BBS with one of their modems. This was great advertising for them and USR pretty replaced Hayes as the standard go to company for modems until DSL & Cable internet replaced dialup. Similar to what Yaesu is/was hoping to accomplish with providing repeaters at a good deal for clubs. I think those making DMR radios could simplify things for us without much effort on their part. The radios already have a nice chunk of computing power in them. Instead of forcing us to use different memories for each repeater for each talkgroup etc they should have us select the nearby repeater and then show us which talkgroups we can use with a simple menu. There shouldn't be a need for thousands and thousands of memory locations in our radios. That might be enough to crown DMR king, 73 - KC1OCA

Fusion isnt closed. Anyone can build a fusion radio. If it is then how do the hotspots used fusion mode?

@Paddy_Roche

2 жыл бұрын

Gets my goat this myth of “Closed”

@USAFJUNKIE

2 жыл бұрын

Good point.

I'm a senior ham with 4 dual-band FM only handheld radios. I think it's about time to make the change to digital. I live near Denver and hear the Skyhub network frequently and I can get into it with just my FM. I also use a 224MHz repeater but can't find anyone to talk to there. 224MHz was a huge deal in the Los Angeles area... but I digress. I am leaning towards C4FM and an OpenSpot3. Audio quality is very important to me being an audiophile. I hear dozens of hams with DMR asking for help all the time. With the above hardware, I think I can go anywhere. 73 de N6WHV

Strange because D-Star sounds the best quality on my 9700 versus all other modes.

Helpful Video. I like the poll that you too. It's too bad that Amateur Radio has become somewhat divided within the Digital Realm that are implemented with different Modulation and Protocols. But the information that you shared has me leaning toward C4FM because I'm older and don't want to spend a lot of ramp up time on DMR. However, those radios are so cheap I'm sure I'll play with too and between DMR + C4FM I will be among at 66% off Amateur Operators. BTW, what is the Open Multi-protocol system being used in Colorado? I couldn't quite understand your audio.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

SkyHubLink.com is the system in Colorado. Can’t go wrong with the ease of C4FM.

@mktwatcher

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC TY for getting back with me on that.

Just some thoughts. I completely agree with you on most of your points but I am curious as to your thoughts on voice quality. I have worked all of these modes (except M17) with radios meant for them. I have done this on repeaters, hotspots, and home nodes. By far, P25 is the best sounding followed by DMR and D-STAR (yes...DSTAR). Fusion is by far the most "robotic" sounding, especially in narrow mode. Fusion is just a different implementation of C4FM which is what P25 uses. Given the capabilities of C4FM, fusion is kind of a disappointment to me. So with that said, D-STAR is a nightmare to get registered and can be a bit complicated to set up. Some would say the same about DMR, but I think it is more the need for instant gratification that Fusion gives you...mostly. Fusion is by far the simplest to set up on the user end but the voice quality is very marginal; especially considering the actual capability of C4FM. I believe this is mostly due to the need for Yaesu to create a proprietary standard to ensure they make money; just like Icom. If they can't make money, then they can't make radios. As you said, the two most commonly used digital modes are DMR and Fusion. I don't think the comments on D-STAR are quite fair as it is a very viable mode and sounds as good as DMR most of the time. Of course anything can be butchered with the radio is set up. If anything, I have always been a fan of Yaesu, but I own a bit of everything (including Motorola). The top manufactures all make some great gear for us. With all the manufacturing issues out there these days, I am just glad to see them still making gear for the amateur market. None of this is meant to be a "dig" in any way; just some thoughtful comments for you to consider. Keep up the great content and I appreciate your work. 73.

Nice...................

Excellent video! KC9QVE Marion,Indiana

So I didn't the name of the Colorado project. Is there a link to website with info? Thanks

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

www.SkyHubLink.com

@keelieyohara7246

2 жыл бұрын

Loved your comments. I do believe you are right about DMR and Yaesu System Fusion (C4FM). I Have both, with dmr being a booger to understand and implement. YAESU System Fusion is just plain fun! Thanks, I subbed too! Lerin-KE0ZMW

DMR Brandmeister....have a DMR repeater in my town and another 5 in my area, no hotspot... but a Pegasus gateway in my state capitol, i can connect it via Brandmeister...talking with C4FM and Dstar... greetings from DL

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

The big utility I see in D-STAR is data. It's old, doesn't sound great, but sending data from one computer or android to another is so easy with a D-STAR radio. If Yaesu could open up their modems to serial data in/out, it would be absolutely game over for D-STAR, imo.

My thoughts: If price were no option: D-Star would stand the test if time. It's crazy easy to operate. A minimal learning curve when learning how to use it. Because price is an option: DMR, while insanely difficult to use and underdocumented (like, what's a color code and what's a time slot) probably will outlast the others just because at the current time, it is the cheapest to access. Maybe down the road, this may not be the case.

I have a Fusion radio only because my local repeater is topography shielded from my home, but it has a ysf room, that’s the only reason. Otherwise, I would stick with DMR. The most active talk groups/rooms are bridged across digital modes. M17 will be interesting to me because it gives me the chance to make stuff, experiment and learn.

I am thinking in getting my technician license back.. i live in Los Angeles.. if I were going to start on a budget which system would you start with? Thank you for your videos

@K0LWC

9 ай бұрын

On a budget it's an easy win for DMR. DMR is propped about by the vast amount of budget friendly radios out there. The challenge is the cheapest DMR radios can be the most frustrating. You get what you pay for. But 100% DMR for the best cost effective choice.

@DineroyvidaenLA

9 ай бұрын

@@K0LWC thank you, can we use those radios on 2 meter or 440? Or I would need another radio for that.. thank you again

@K0LWC

9 ай бұрын

@@DineroyvidaenLA The AnyTone 878 has both VHF and UHF.

I think it has more to do with which ones are supported in Your area than what a survey says. In my area there are 2 DStar repeaters, supposedly 2 DMR repeaters (one is said to be private) and no active C4FM repeaters. Only one DStar repeater get only sporadic use and haven't heard anyone on the DMR repeater. What would be nice is a hotspot that could be used with a analog HT that would let you use any of the digital modes and sells for under $100.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if we’ll see transcoding come to the radio itself, versus being done via hotspot.

Another downside of DSTAR is you have to spend $650 for a new HT.

Ive been into LoRa for over 5 years. When is LoRa coming to ham radio?

@MarvinBowen

2 жыл бұрын

Good question. Maybe it'll start to creep in with greater awareness. I'm highly interested. I only know about it because I'm a ham, and I watch HRCC, and he covered one device. So, awareness. See link. kzread.info/dash/bejne/dqmhyaqzZZmvmqw.html

I have a Alinco DJ-MD5X!

I’d like to get ur views about DMR being used for Emcom.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

DMR for EMCOMM is great, I see no major problems. It has advantages with using TDMA. Keep in mind, DMR does not = Internet linked.

@USAFJUNKIE

2 жыл бұрын

I saw a video on another channel where the guy made a good pint in saying that using a digital radio in an emergency situation does have the added benefit that random preppers with a baofeng won't be able to listen in on your transmissions. Obviously you're not technically encrypted, but it would be an added layer of security in an SHTF type scenario.

P25 is NOT a closed Motorola-only digital mode. Harris makes P25 radios. Midland made the STM-1050b. Kenwood has a TRIMODE mobile capable of FM-analog and your choice of DMR, NXDN or P25pII!

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Well, Motorola is the only one really running with it, primarily in public safety. It was explained well to me by someone in a Facebook comment. Many manufacturers offer features and add to the P25 standard that than makes compatibility across manufacturers problematic.

@coreymckay4433

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC I think the P25 radios seen in public safety by hams is very territorial, based on which companies get the state contract. Most counties/municipalities piggyback off their state's contract to take advantage of pricing plus interoperability guarantees. Your state may very well be a "Motorola state". L3/Harris had the lock on Florida public safety radio contracts, and as such every P25 radio I've seen here is Harris.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve seen it flip flop so much. When I lived in Denver it was a Harris town. Then…Denver dumped an old Ericsson trunk system and went Motorola, then Denver walked the Moto sales rep over to Aurora, CO and convinced them to dump Harris in favor of Motorola. Now Motorola is spreading around the Front Range. All while the state has a massive statewide system on P25II/III that anyone COULD use, but every agency wants their own system designed to their own specs without relying on an outside agency. These giant statewide systems are a giant money pit that can’t overcome local politics.

@coreymckay4433

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC Now that I believe. Here, every county will have a system, municipalities within will have there own, that then tie into the county system. The county system then has abilities to tie into the state network via interoperability agreement standards. The state has enough running on their systems already that they couldn't handle full traffic from a decently staffed county agency, hence the local-level systems.

@dstaylor87

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC Different systems for different needs. Many large county or even statewide systems are designed for outdoor coverage, mostly from mobile subscribers. When you get to the city level they often want portable, in-building coverage. That requires a different system design.

We have Alabama LInk that is just as you describe it is truly a open digital system. Unfortunately you can tell who comes in on some digital modes because of the delay. I use our fusion repeater and Dstar repeater and have better results. This could be the link or the hotspot, but I do not know.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a system design issue.

All of these digital modes have made a bit of a pissing match, but for now real gain. I'm going to play with DMR and D-star. I have limited coverage in my area. Also, the equipment makes a difference. I really like the ID-5100 and will be watching the ID-52. If those were poor quality radios then I wouldn't give d-star much thought, either. I've ordered the 878II Plus because I want to experience DMR and have a quality HT. Black Friday deal made it a very cost effective purchase. I see that you do have a very strong opinion about D-star, and no matter the mode, it is off putting. Maybe step down a little from your 'high horse' attitude about it.

My only issue with digital is the voice compression that is used. The voice quality is not natural. I think the voice compression should sound as natural as possible, close to analog quite frankly.

Dstar has the best data transfer protocol for use with ham radio. Voice quality is an issue, but none of the other digital modes can compare with the built in functionality for data and text transfer in dstar. All that is needed is a backward compatible codec upgrade and it'll blow the competition out of the water. It's a mistake to discount it at this point.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Will we ever see AMBE 2 come to D-Star?

COST, Like you said. DMR all up and running £120. Fusion £400+

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

That is a huge reason why DMR is popular.

Was your poll only covering VHF/UHF or the whole spectrum of ham activities?

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

You can see the question in the screen capture. It was a general question regarding digital voice.

@kc0itf

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC Where on HF do you use Yaesu System Fusion? I've heard only D-Star on HF!

@kelvin0mql

2 жыл бұрын

@@kc0itf There’s also FreeDV. Works pretty well.

Dstar is good and works well but icom is the most expensive dmr is probably the cheapest but also can be the most difficult to master I like yaesu or c4fm it is in the middle with good quality equipment and not too expensive and not to hard I just wish more would try it

DMR is extremely limited. You can’t even send data. Not to mention having to store the entire user database on your radio. TalkerAlias isn’t that great either. Also the radios suck. I don’t find DSTAR to be that bad. It’s a lot more flexible than DMR and at least two of the “big three” support it. It would be cool to see M17 take off.

@forlornbabies87

2 жыл бұрын

You don't 'HAVE' to install the user database to your radio

@Transmissions

2 жыл бұрын

That’s right, but it’s even more useless without it. It was never built to be used in the capacity hams want to use it for.

Ragging on dstar was not helpful. We use it in Western NY all the time. Its easy to register and a high power hotspot is easy to install in a community. DMR is popular only because it is cheap and hams are cheap, end of story. Icom radio's are well built and last a very long time.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

I can’t take any comment seriously that claims D-Star is easy to register with the network. It’s a nightmare. It’s a universal truth.

@randytheapplianceguy8838

2 жыл бұрын

I registered 3 hams in less than 10 minutes.

@doncoker

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on where you are. Here in S CA, was up and going in 15 minutes

@consciousness1237

2 жыл бұрын

DSTAR is easy to register at your local repeater or club , just call them and give them your info . The next day you are in like Flinn. I have heard horror stories about national websites that do it. I just spent 1000 dollars for 2 rigs dmr mobile and dstar rig. Also I have a DVSTICK30 for 100 dollars that let's me talk to everyone and sounds better than the rigs. I'm debating selling them for other options. Good video OM AA4CP Chuck Port Salerno FL USA

My experience of the main three DV modes is different. I listen to all three all day as I work from home and have three hotspots and HTs. Yaesu is the most quiet. Hours can go by without hearing anyone on some of the popular rooms. D-Star is pretty busy on 30c, 01c, 06a with regular QSOs to listen to. DMR is wall to wall. If anything it looks like Yaesu is on the way out, however... I wonder too if it is correlated with availability and choice of radios. With Fusion you have to use Yaesu, no other choice, but with D-Star you can use Kenwood or Icom so more options, while DMR since China got in the market has by far the most HTs and mobile rigs available and many at very accessible price points. I think price of equipment plus the amount of choice will be the determining factor which currently puts Yaesu last which backs up my listening and operating experience.

C4fm for me

Agreed dmr as its easy to get and cheap fusion as they have implemented them self in the community I think though dmr will win the race

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

DMR certainly has the cost advantage.

DMR absolutely dominates here. YSF only lives due to the cheap repeaters from Yaesu and thanks to MMDVM. There's about the same amount of D-Star, P25 and TETRA repeaters.

P25

Dstar I think is the only mode that you are allowed to use for below 29mhz because it uses PSK and not using a lot of bandwidth! Unlike DMR and C4FM which uses 4FSK! DMR is the best choice if you are on VHF UHF

DMR is a pain in the ass to use. I had my Yaesu FT-70D fusion radio on the air 2 min's after I took it out of the box! Can't do that with DMR. Why something so simple can be so complicated.

I have been licensed for over 50 years. How do you know what will survive? I have seen many things come and go and I don't have a clue on what will be in the future. Packet and AMTOR were flashes in a pan. I expect most of the digital modes will fade away, especially those only trade contacts and nothing else. They become boring in time after working everywhere with the computer making the effort and the there is no skill required from the operator...

I agree with your assessments with one small caveat: CW is the oldest digital mode and most personally satisfying to those who learn it. All technicians have HF privileges with CW on 80, 40, 15, and 10 meters without needing to upgrade.

@vk2dy

2 жыл бұрын

Morse is trinary in a sense, you need long, short, and space. The space has no value, but Morse would be worthless without it.

I like(d) DMR, but I found the "code plugs" a big pain up the a$$. And then, I ended up stuck on a system that was for "worldwide monitoring" and ended up talking to some fellow much older than myself in the UK, and while I clearly stated that I didn't want to talk about "CB Radio", he ended up forcing the dialogue about CB Radio, despite myself, coming from CB Radio and getting my Ham license to /escape/ CB Radio. So, I ended up hanging around 27.385 LSB and vicinity with my Icom 7300.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

The codeplugs are a pain, especially when you're first starting out.

I agree with your D-Star voice quality statement. DMR and C4FM in narrow band mode aren't that much better. They all sound awful. The registration for D-Star isn't an issue any more. You only need that for the old US trust server infrastructure which is antique by current standards. The big benefit of D-Star compared to DMR is the visibility of the current status. The repeater confirms every request and the radio shows the message in the display. You get connected/disconnected announcements. The protocol is just much better tailored to amateur radio in comparison to DMR. I have DMR, D-Star and Fusion/C4MF and Fusion is the worst out of the 3 for me but that's probably my lack of experience with it. I use DMR and D-Star all the time while I don't have much Fusion activity in my area and never figured the reflector structure out. Isn't it great to have all options?

Where’s your 5dr?

@K0LWC

Жыл бұрын

No 5DR here. Wasn’t overly impressed with the unit I had.

dmr is the way to go....they should program it , link it , for more propagation.

I don’t care which one wins I have DMR and Fusion here now I don’t like DMR because here is no other programming software out there for the Anytone 878 that will work with my laptop the way I need to have it set up so I can read my screen and that means my laptop don’t like the software you can get for that radio and I have been trying to get ahold of the guy that programmed my radio for almost a year now so he can make some changes for me Fusion seems to be ok if I could get my hotspot to play well with both it and DMR which so far hasn’t gone well so if something comes along that will let me do it all without having to invest a huge amount of money I’ll jump on it without a doubt

Just to be clear, C4FM from Yaesu is NOT proprietary. The wires-x interconnecting is so they can have security over the network. but C4FM usage is not. ANYONE could build C4FM radio and use it on a Yaesu repeater. ALL the hot spots use C4FM and if it was proprietary The Yaesu lawyers would be working over time.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Therefore it’s not open since the underlying network is controlled by Yaesu. Sorry for the confusing language.

@4666L

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC The Wires -X network and "C4FM" are not the same though. and many people get the idea that C4FM is proprietary. I was running my repeater in analog for a long time before Yaesu came out with the revision to allow repeaters to connect directly to the HRI-200 in digital mode. Other than that point, as important as it is, it was a good video in my opinion.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

I hear you, Wires-X is the linking network where C4FM is the modulation scheme. I don’t like Yaesu attempting to say their digital offering “isn’t closed,” when in fact their Wires-X layer is absolutely closed.

@4666L

2 жыл бұрын

@@K0LWC And they have been open about that since the beginning. Anyone can build and sell a C4FM radio and they do. ALL these so called "hot spots" use C4FM as does the MMDVM board that is installed in repeaters. The Wires-X NETWORK is proprietary. for good reason however a user can take a radio out of a box, enter his callsign and be on the Wires-X network as soon as he gets on a wires-x capable repeater or node. There is nothing else for him to do. Nothing to register at all ever. I don't know how you could be more open than that. This AIn't DMR.

Cheapest Yaesu System Fusion digital handheld transceiver costs around 170 pounds and over 300 for waterproof models (FT5DE was sold for 300 when considering the recent 50 pound payback offer) with a quite questionable touch screen that is somewhat counterproductive for outdoor use with gloves/screen operation in rain. DMR waterproof radio with GPS like TYT MD-390 is around 130 pounds, so it's not even a contest for outdoor use when the FT-70 non-waterproof non-GPS model is 40 pounds more expensive anyway. If Yaesu was serious about making System Fusion mainstream, they would produce something like an FT1D waterproof variant with buttons and GPS under 200 pounds (a non-waterproof variant with barometric sensor, GPS, and System Fusion FT1D was once sold for under 200 pounds) or at least a lot cheaper entry-level radio instead of FT-70 which is rather overpriced for what you get (not especially sensitive analog radio with digital mode and decent speaker) considering that made in Japan Alinco DJ-VX50 waterproof analog dual band handheld transceiver cost around 90 pounds. I just do not see where is that additional 80 pound value of FT-70 when even Japanese competition can do a lot better in the same price range (Alinco MD-5 DMRwith256AESencryption+GPSwithAPRS). Current entry to System Fusion is just a ripoff and no matter how cheap repeaters will Yaesu offers will not counter the need for overpriced entry-level System Fusion radios when even much better value for money high-end models ain't good for outdoor anyway. Mid-range between 100-200 USD or at least pounds is where you can make decent devices for a decent profit, something like 40000USD cars which is why all car manufacturers try to have the best value for money EV there, but Yaesu simply missing this sweet spot by a moonshot which is a shame because this leaves you with DMR Alinco if you want something decent for reasonable prices from Japan.

freedv?

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

FreeDV is an awesome resource. That won't go anywhere. Free open source stuff will be around.

C4FM would be so much better if it worked like DMR with a hotspot. Biggest problem with DMR is that cheap hams like to buy $40 radios plagued with audio problems.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Audio levels can drive people nuts. And just plain knowing how to talk into a radio. Those little audio things are amplified on digital. Nothing worse than two stations with drastically different audio.

Not the oldest digital mode, but the oldest digital VOICE mode.

Why is ham radio stuck in the past, bits are bits, it doesn't matter if it's voice, text, images, video, 3d point clouds. Having proprietary hardware front end decoders in a radio doesn't make sense. The question isn't DMR, C4FM, M17. It's PSK, FSK, QAM1024

Sorry to disagree with your ideas. Why you ask? As long as you have internet and or repeaters DMR and Fusion works great. Should you loose those during a disaster DMR and Fusion now works only simplex good for only 15 to 30 miles. Since Dstar is available with more modes than just FM and very much improved audio. It will not be going away in the near future. If people are not aware there is a lot of interest in Dstar HF testing with great success. Registration is much easier than when you last looked at it. Further no registration needed to do HF that I am aware of.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Disagreement is fine, Jerry -- and encouraged. You do make a great point about the use of D-Star on HF. That is something unique to D-Star in terms if how many people are using it.

None of them are going away. Ask the manufacturers. "MINE IS THE BEST!!!!!"

There are more DMR repeaters in the US than any other digital mode repeaters. More Fusion repeaters have dropped off and gone back to analog due to poor cooling and construction of fusion repeaters. Fusion repeaters were burning up and failing. Basically two mobiles put together in a box. Most fusion repeaters are now running amps to helps with full duty cycle.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

DMR has grown quickly thanks to the amount of equipment out there. Haven’t heard of any major issues with repeater reliability from the Fusion systems myself, but entirely possible.

@4666L

2 жыл бұрын

That is so inaccurate it's laughable.

So far I haven't really gotten too much into digital, because I can't stand how robotic everybody sounds, it is so freaking annoying. Until technology comes out to where everybody doesn't sound so robotic, I'll just stick to analog. Hopefully, in the future, some technology will come out where we will sound less robotic and annoying.

@jplacido9999

Жыл бұрын

You are absolutly right. Why should we go back in quality sound.....? Remember the sound of an analog GE or Motorola with external speaker ?!!!!!!

If M17 sounds better than all the rest, then companies like Anytone will add it into their radios without any question. If Yaesu and icom don't bother to give their customers what they want, that's their loss. Their sales will drop and companies like Anytone will become the #1 in Ham digital gear.

Are you for real putting the usually horrible over driven DMR audio many Hams will blast you out of a room with? Many sound like they are in a loud crowded bar (belly to butt packing) and shouting at you to try and carry on a conversation. So your recommendation is to not buy Icom or Kenwood radios and if you do do, don’t use the D-Star? But support Chinese clones of Motorola that will not offer any after the sale service. As a side note take the most popular Reflector/TG for each mode. As I write this there are 813 remote users and 54 Gateways linked to REF030C. Icom will soon be running out new radios now that they can get chips. My bet we will be seeing a new HF D-STar rig in the group. Kenwood is still a ?.

1. DMR sounds the worse to me. 2. According to John Kruk (today on FB) Fusion is not closed source……. 🤷‍♂️

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

It’s a wordsmithing situation. It’s open specification with a proprietary vocoder system. Wires-X, also a closed system. Simply put, it’s not open source.

😄 DMR has the worst quality audio.. i love my Dstar and my own reflector.

@K0LWC

2 жыл бұрын

Send me what you’re on, cause you’re crazy.

One word ZELLO

@K0LWC

Жыл бұрын

What about it?