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Hades & The Gods (Story & Theme Discussion)
Spend the entire year inside watching Curiosity Stream: www.curiosityst...
Hades is on Steam at: store.steampow...
BBC Documentary footage from: Venus Uncovered: Ancient Goddess of Love • Video
Theogony: • Hesiod - Theogony
Metamorphses: classics.mit.ed...
City of God: www.gutenberg....
Greece drone footage from Standard Broadcasting
Support the channel on Patreon: / superbunnyhop
Пікірлер: 718
- Xenophanes - “The Ethiops say that their gods are flat-nosed and black, While the Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair. Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw, And could sculpt like men, then the horses would draw their gods Like horses, and cattle like cattle; and each they would shape Bodies of gods in the likeness, each kind, of their own."
@cloud_and_proud
3 жыл бұрын
So they even had annoying new age cultural imperialists back in the ancient times. Lol.
@ZontarDow
3 жыл бұрын
Kind of contradicts the idea of a black Athena
@cloud_and_proud
3 жыл бұрын
@@ZontarDow only if you assume a white perspective for the game.
@TwoHands95
3 жыл бұрын
This passage explicitly says that each ethnicity had their own Gods that looked like them and acted like them, so it wouldn't make sense if the white European Greeks had black African gods in their pantheon, no?
@bloodmachine6049
3 жыл бұрын
@@TwoHands95 It absolutely does since they believed those gods were universal. Also the very concept of "white european" simply was not a thing
Super Bunnyhop became a mythology channel so progressively I didn't even noticed the change
@biocode4478
3 жыл бұрын
I was hoping for a shift to politics but I'll take it
@as1tis
3 жыл бұрын
There's enough politics out there.
@franciscor390
3 жыл бұрын
@@biocode4478 what more woke politics. You have tons of that.
@RobinOttens
3 жыл бұрын
@@biocode4478 It's all politics anyway, current political and social beliefs and systems are closely linked to the legacy of the cultures we all descended from. Similarly, any game and the ideas expressed within, are in some way a reflection on the politics of its creators or the environment it was made in. Which is to say, I just want George to throw more mythology at us! His Curiositystream subscription is really paying off.
@0Enigmatic0
3 жыл бұрын
@@as1tis Everything is politics
George is just looking for videogame excuses to talk about Ancient Greece at this point.
@lunarbeing4982
3 жыл бұрын
It's true and it's great
@demirdzaferovic2990
3 жыл бұрын
One must imagine George happy.
@234ne14
3 жыл бұрын
@@demirdzaferovic2990 We have to for MGS is now gone...
@Camarada_Cao
3 жыл бұрын
Amem.
One last thing: "The Greeks didn't believe their gods were just the gods of Greece" is not right. The Greeks certainly believed that there more gods than just theirs, and they generally thought that their origin story was the right one, but that said, they thought the gods of other people were real, and that the Greek gods, while capable of acting against other peoples, were not "their" gods too. Sometimes they thought one god must have different aspects or faces, and thence we got Zeus-Ammon or the idea that Mars and Ares were the same god (they're not, they're quite different), and this line of thinking eventually brought to the Platonic, Stoic and Neoplatonic belief that the Gods were all aspects of one divine essence which acted in different guises (the Nous, the Pleroma, whatever) - But at that point, they no longer believed in Athena or Zeus or Hermes as such. Anyway, Christ and Mithras were about to crash the party, so we'll never know.
@SonicDMonkey
3 жыл бұрын
Hey, could I ask you to elaborate a bit on the Ares and Mars thing? I haven't heard of that before and find it very interesting.
@Ennio444
3 жыл бұрын
@@SonicDMonkey The Greek and Roman gods are similar in broad attributions because they come from the same stock, but they were given very different characters or "domains". While Ares quickly became an angry god of violence and uncivilised warfare, raw strength and individual might, Mars was the protector of the cattle and the fields, the personification of the good one can do for the community when using force to protect. Of course Mars was also patron of warriors and violence, but he was seen in a definitelt positive light, while Ares was usually not.
@Kammereer
3 жыл бұрын
@@SonicDMonkey Gods, and the associated religious rituals, changed all the time, as people changed with time and old folklore and traditions got forgotten or updated to fit the times. This is especially true when the gods migrate from culture to culture, such as with Romans adapting Greek gods, or Romans adapting Mithras, or Caribbeans adapting Christian saints into Voodoo loa. Romans in general were big on adapting foreign deities. A standard war ritual for the Romans was bribing foreign gods with sacrifices and altars to persuade them to live in and work with Rome instead of patronizing the peoples they are currently with. For the Greeks, Ares was one of the less liked gods, being the deity associated with anger and mindless war. It's Athena who is the patron of strategy and victory. Ares hits stuff until its dead. For the Romans, Mars moved on to being chief god of the nation, supplanting Zeus/Jupiter. It also has been changed into various aspects to fit the times and political needs of the emperor. For example Augustus created Mars Ultor - Mars the Avenger, symbolizing his defeat of Caesar's assassins and Making Rome Great Again after a string of internal and external turmoils. And when Romans came to Brittain, Mars was adapted by Celts and merged with multiple local deities creating many smaller, very obscure branches.
@Ravi9A
3 жыл бұрын
That gods give patronage is not to be confused with Tribal exclusive gods.
Huh. I always interpreted Athena in that game as being bronze, like made of bronze. Works with the iconography.
@AgonyofCrimson
3 жыл бұрын
yeah i thought similarly as in she was like an ashy granite or black marble sort of thing.
So now that I've played Hades, I've come to the conclusion that we, the players, are Sisyphus, and Zagreus is our boulder
@japoonboals718
2 жыл бұрын
I like that
"The Struggle itself towards the height is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy" Albert Camus
@RastafarianPilgrim
3 жыл бұрын
Albert Camus aka Daddy
@GarrettX001
3 жыл бұрын
@@RastafarianPilgrim Gross.
@SanDeygo
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly what I thought when I saw him in game and his attitude
Fun fact: when the Romans came into contact with the Germanic tribes the God they coopted as the equivalent of Mercury was mfing Odin of all things.
@CollinBuckman
3 жыл бұрын
And they thought Thor was Hercules, and Tyr was Mars
@Sonlirain
3 жыл бұрын
@@CollinBuckman To be frank Thor is pretty similar to Hercules all things considered. He did go on all those weird quests and crossdressed at least once.
@MrTempestilence
3 жыл бұрын
Mercury being Odin makes sense. Both carry staffs/spears, both are associated with wings and messengers, both are tricksters, etc.
@PejmanMan
3 жыл бұрын
@@CollinBuckman to be fair tyr is literally an ancient Iranian word for mars, and whom the Romans would have interacted with. The rest tho, lmao
@CollinBuckman
3 жыл бұрын
@@PejmanMan I think it's more because Tyr and Mars were both worshipped as gods of war and law, while Thor and Hercules were both big buff gods famous for beating people up a lot lol
he really called us 'shamelessly horny', and yeah fair enough
@jadefae
3 жыл бұрын
I love how this comment proves itself lol
@HomerGumther
3 жыл бұрын
The game itself is pretty horny in places, especially once you reach certain social levels So, it's to be expected
@zeppie_
3 жыл бұрын
One god in particular in this game makes me feel devious
@unvexis
3 жыл бұрын
@@zeppie_ You don't even need to specify which one. It's all of them, isn't it?
@hollowedseas
3 жыл бұрын
@@unvexis I’m guessing they meant Thanatos
Another on-brand Greek history analysis from George follow those passions king!
Seeing the deep dive youve been making of how deeply the ancient worlds framework still is present only makes me wish for more imaginative fiction and even a reality where that same level of progression could have been experienced by other cultures with vastly different points of reference (incans, aztec, sub saharan africa)
@EmeraldLavigne
3 жыл бұрын
Drrrrr your da reel racism cuz um
@stan4143
3 жыл бұрын
@@EmeraldLavigne i dont understand, but im curious to hear what your perspective is on the topic though
@stan4143
3 жыл бұрын
@@EmeraldLavigne i reread it and I think i got it 👍👌🖖
You know, their skin tones are so ashen I thought Ares and Athena were supposed to be dead-body gray as opposed to black. Maybe I'm just lucky and so whatever misguided controversy that spawned passed by!
@tofast4ya
3 жыл бұрын
I thought it was just to add more expression to the art on this rather modern take on ancient greek mythology. The only character where i acknowleded the change was eurydice but i didn't think much of it as the game already takes lots of liberties from the source material. To me this was more of a sit-com/anime/drama version of the classics - but gameified, like when they make comedy versions of grim fairytales or make modern versions of shakespear material.
@franciscor390
3 жыл бұрын
Careful George will hear you, i think he wants to think of them as full on blek.
@Lyubimov89
3 жыл бұрын
I never gave too much of a thought to skin color because it's obviously a very modernised retelling instead of a literal interpretation of the myth. In a game where the son of Hades says 'mate" to everyone he comes across and there's a maid medusa, someone's skin color should not be a point of concern.
@CardboardBlueMage
3 жыл бұрын
I figured it was in reference to their black ceramic style.
@Dr_Gerbz
3 жыл бұрын
I'm fully in agreement with what has been said above me. Personally, I only realized Athena was black after I saw an article mention it. They're all such great characters, so very well written and every single voice actor has done an incredible job; who cares about the skin?
The Ceasar section I disagree with being all about gods. He was essentially painting a PR Picture to those back in Rome that the peoples of Gaul were just like us. This was being done because as we all know Ceasar spent give or take a decade marching around Gaul and slowly forming it into a new province of the Empire. When he called gods mercury and venus he was looking at what gods they had and converted them across. So the Gaulic people never had a Mercury but would have had a god kinda sorta similar. Since we have no actual evidence as to what these people believed and because Gaul itself waant unified in even a tiny way its been argued and id agree that actually alll the different parts may have had all their own versions of all the gods that did their own wee thing. I adore ancient history and by mentioning the bauld adulterous whore himself you more or less made me write this.
I knew he'd be on this, he's such a mark for Greece
"My fellow americans." ...B-but I'm german...
@RobinOttens
3 жыл бұрын
* cries in Dutch *
@Reubel
3 жыл бұрын
"Citizens of America... ... ... ...and citizens of the world."
@PsychOsmosis
3 жыл бұрын
@@Reubel In the end, he just says "my fellow americans" though. That's what OP is referencing.
@Reubel
3 жыл бұрын
@@PsychOsmosis Oh, I know. I was just adding a (somewhat modified) quote from one of Georges fellow americans, one Barack Obama (more precisely: some of the opening lines from mr. former president of the US of A:s 2009 Nobel peace prize acceptance speech), to be funny. (I.e. to lightly poke fun at the America First-attitude that both men showcased with their respective wording. This, the poking that is, is, after all, the chief national sport over here in Europe-land :D ).
@raz1572
3 жыл бұрын
Not anymore, welcome fellow American. You can pick up your gun and deisel truck at your leisure.
Something that needs to be said about Hades is how excellent the quality of the game was even during Early Access. There were placeholder phantoms for characters whose designs were not yet decided or complete, but the game, the story, and the incredible themes of all the Gods and Goddesses present were already solid. The update schedule and the content that came with it was something to genuinely look forward to, whenever you finally hit the ceiling of what the game had to offer at the time. It honestly made the whole game more of a journey, rather than an endless Game as a Service disguised as an "Early Access," that so many companies seem to at least try to maintain. The roadmap of Hades has a clear, beginning, middle and end, which is a goddamn miracle in this industry these days. Supergiant is a stellar developer with a golden pedigree, at this point, and while I'm sure they're all looking forward to taking a break and their time to come up with their next project, I will most assuredly be here when it's ready.
@amilyester
3 жыл бұрын
I'm just praying someone like MS doesn't buy them up but I don't think they'd ever say yes or anything.
@Sorain1
3 жыл бұрын
@@amilyester I think the winning strategy with that is to have everyone in the company agree to say yes, take the money and then leave to make a new company with said money. You get MS's money, they get the IP they want to drive to ruin, you keep your ability to make your art. Only the name changes really. Mind you, I imagine MS has a lot of BS setup to avoid that exact scenario but it doesn't mean I don't wish it could be so.
The Smithsonian article mentions that 3/4 of the hand prints were probably female and that the method used to determine this had a 60% accuracy. This doesn't actually mean that they were _painted_ by women, just that the hands depicted were 3/4 x 0.6 female. Your way of phrasing it is disingenuous.
@eleccy
3 жыл бұрын
Never let facts get in the way of a narrative. It's the KZread way!
@robertnomok9750
3 жыл бұрын
Entire video is like that. He imagined whole Athena black debacle just to make himself look good afterwards.
"To keep going, we must imagine ourselves happy" - George Weidman, 2020
@bangasou12
3 жыл бұрын
how deep
@TheGuwrovsky
3 жыл бұрын
Weidman for President!
@Lord_Deimos
3 жыл бұрын
We must become lotus eaters.
@ultramango1337
3 жыл бұрын
wonder when he'll start wearing coats and smoke an unhealthy amount of cigarettes
I've not heard a single complaint about black Gods in the game at all. I didn't even notice it, nor did I care, it's a good game, that's all that matters.
@ZontarDow
3 жыл бұрын
It was probably a primer since the latest adaptation of Troy had a mostly black cast and Greeks where furious at that cultural imperialism by the people who made it
@policesquad
3 жыл бұрын
@@ZontarDow Which adaptation? Total War?
@ZeNewk
3 жыл бұрын
@@policesquad It's this one I reckon "Troy: Fall of a City" (3.8/10 on IMDB)
@icyjiub2228
3 жыл бұрын
@@ZontarDow >cultural imperialism Is this the replacement for "Cultural Marxism" because now everyone knows it's a meaningless buzzword made for people still stuck in the 2015 gamergate mind prison. In this case the "blackwashing" is bound up in so much subjectivism that George's statements preachiness gets diluted to nothing. As for the show? Just don't watch it and stop going on 4chan.
@arthurdent9745
3 жыл бұрын
@@icyjiub2228 "...a meaningless buzzword made for people still stuck in the 2015 gamergate mind." Is this projection?
The way I’ve dealt with existentialism is to remember that there’ll be bad times, but spring always comes. The play might be the same, but an actor gives his best every night to enrich other people’s lives.
So, what you're saying/getting at; is that the ancient greek world was literally a giant collage of "why are we here? Just to suffer??"
@Zenju__
3 жыл бұрын
That's not the ancient Greek world view, but it appears to be George's at the moment of writing.
@CaptainRasmot
3 жыл бұрын
@@Zenju__ . . . yeah, that's a mood if i ever did feel one
@MrDalisclock
3 жыл бұрын
@@Zenju__ well, it is 2020. Most of us can probably relate
@caleb1031
3 жыл бұрын
Philosophers were basically celebrities in ancient Greece, as such the the Greek culture cannot be defined by a single philosophy. That being said the nature, and value of suffering is a fundamental subset of philosophy. Stoicism was a popular Greek philosophy to deal with suffering, Hedonism is another.
@buttholesurfer1266
3 жыл бұрын
No, it's George's projection lol
I realized 3 minutes in this game was by supergiant and bought it immediately. No idea how I didn't hear they were making a new game!
@RodTejada502
3 жыл бұрын
You should check the NoClip's docu-series on how they developed the game, here on YT
@policesquad
3 жыл бұрын
It came out in 2018 as an Epic exclusive, it only hit Steam Early Access in December 2019. Now, it is finally finished and I'm finding it hard to get back into the game. It is a great game but it is now dull after 323 hours.
Zagreus also fit another Camus quote : "T rebel, therefore I exist"
They're supposed to look black? I honestly thought they were designed to look like carved stone. Like special god stone or something.
@CHENEYMANIA
3 жыл бұрын
Lol George is reading too far in to it
@bruhbruh4329
3 жыл бұрын
You know that english teacher that thought every cigar pen and curtain had a hidden meaning?
@Shinigami13133
3 жыл бұрын
I got that vibe from Athena too, it didn't even register to me that she was "black" I was just like "ooh, she's got stoney skin!"
@jonathanredacted3245
3 жыл бұрын
With Athena maybe, but dionysis and ares both have immistakebly dark brown skin
While i dont dislike you talking about greek mythology and existensialism, it seems that it has nothing to do with the game.
@oplinger
3 жыл бұрын
Found the idiot
@thesteamguy6171
3 жыл бұрын
@@oplinger Glad to know you found yourself.
@policesquad
3 жыл бұрын
@@oplinger That's uncalled for.
@BaneDane_JB
3 жыл бұрын
He can never actually escape hell and the boulder can never be pushed up the hill, but we can still find meaning in trying. That's the point of mentioning existentialism in the vid, or interpreting it in the game, as George relates it to his own experiences.
@Msoulwing
3 жыл бұрын
You are quite correct, other than the bit about how the gods are depicted, the video careens off into exploring the actual myths rather than the game's story and themes. Still a good video but you could take Hades out of it completely and almost nothing would change.
There has been literally no controversy that Athena and Ares have black skin, I'm not sure where you got that from. They're gods; they can look however they wish. BTW, they have dark skin but their facial features are very caucasian. It's like they are a photo negative or carved of dark stone. It makes them more otherworldly
@icyjiub2228
3 жыл бұрын
Literally the only reason why 4chan isn't bitching up a storm is because they're too busy jerking off to the characters.
@Healermain15
3 жыл бұрын
It's the usual nonsense from racist Gamers TM with Concerns about Historical Accuracy.
That history degree really paying off
So there's an interesting tangential theme I noticed after beating the main story of Hades and progressing the relationships with all the characters through conversations and gifts. Through hard work and perseverance, you can change things for the better. In the case of Hades, you're usually fixing peoples relationships. So many characters seem consigned to their fate, firmly believing things can't change or that it isn't worth changing. It takes Zagreus talking to people on either side of the relationship (and fighting through the underworld to get there) for things to change. You can't ever change what happened and what people have experienced, but things can change for the better if both sides are willing to work for it. I can count at least seven relationships in the game where this is a thing. Whether or not this is true in real life is up for debate, but it's definitely something I noticed in the game.
@Sorain1
3 жыл бұрын
One thing that is sure about that in relation to real life: if no effort is made to change it for the better, it won't do so on it's own.
Was afraid to watch this for fear of spoilers. But dang I'm glad I watched it anyway. Zero spoilers, a ton of fascinating background on the myths and culture that Hades is riffing on instead. Now I'm even more excited to play this game. This was super interesting. Super Bunnyhop history lessons are the best history lessons.
I dunno if this was the intention but at 5:15 this style of pottery depicted men as black and women as white, pretty often. Not a race thing
@PirateArr
3 жыл бұрын
Also on a different tangent I always found it awesome that there are elephants mentioned in the Iliad when the Ethiopians arrive
@RowbotMaster
3 жыл бұрын
Maybe men would usually be more tanned than women due to women staying inside more often
@metallicsnake.
3 жыл бұрын
Z @@PirateArr
I’m not American.
@yserareborn
3 жыл бұрын
Stop bragging.
@bennymountain1
3 жыл бұрын
You are American where it matters. Right there.
I agree with the "black people are present in Greek mythology", but using red figures pottery to justify it is... not ok. In red figure vases, people are black or white regardless of who they're supposed to be, it's a stylised art choice, not a representation of black or white ness. We know that because plenty of times Achilles or Odysseus are shown as black or white, regardless of context.
Thanks for the vid. Always great.
Can’t wait to come back and watch this once I finally escape.
@policesquad
3 жыл бұрын
Have you not heard? "There is no escape."
@jaddy72
3 жыл бұрын
@@policesquad nice try, HADES
@BigBoss-sm9xj
3 жыл бұрын
Blizzic good vids man
@MrDalisclock
3 жыл бұрын
If it makes you feel better, it doesn't spoil anything you wouldn't know about after a few hours
Genuinely confused by your interpretation/justification of Athena being black. Going by your logic, if Greek Gods were reinterpreted by conquered peoples for their theological and representational needs, then why wouldn't Athena be interpreted as being white? Seeing as that's the race of the Greek peoples themselves? If you're going to draw on Julius Ceasar's interpretation of Gallic mythology then you surely must appreciate that in literally every depiction of statues and mosaics their Roman gods are white (or are depicted with white features). For that matter, so are the Greeks, with the exception of pottery where they worked with limited pigments, or their pigments changed over time
@eleccy
3 жыл бұрын
Yep. In a further irony to the situation, Bunnyhop is doing the same thing. He's from a multiethnic society so he's choosing to reinterpret the gods to his own perceptions, rather than the Greeks. Irony abounds!
@NeverSaySandwich1
3 жыл бұрын
Stop it dude you're making too much sense and taking away George's SJW brownie points
@oisinobroin442
3 жыл бұрын
@@eleccy It's not ironic, in fact it supports George's point. The game is a product of present game developers, and as such views the Greek gods through the cultural lens of today, just as the Greeks acknowledged that their own depictions of their gods were a reflection of their own culture.
@eleccy
3 жыл бұрын
@@oisinobroin442 That may well be true but it can still be ironic. George refers, or at least attempts to interpret pottery as a factual basis for his claims. It's ironic to me that this is his approach given that he then calls the Roman use of the same methods as akin to imperialism and the twisting of facts to keep an empire together. On an unrelated note, I don't think a single character in the game would fit the modern interpretation of a black person (possibly Eurydice but her fro is a shrub!), but I wouldn't care if they did. I also haven't seen any notable rejection of the supposedly black gods in the games, other than a few mostly disregarded comments on a few youtube videos. I just find it odd the need to look at pottery when just claiming reinterpretation is enough for me and most people.
@oisinobroin442
3 жыл бұрын
@@eleccy Yeah the more I read the comments here the more I realise there was some controversy around the release of the game. Before this video the only other exposure I had to it was skipping through a pretty positive endorsement of the gameplay, mechanics, polish etc, and I never gave second thought to the representation of the cast. Unfortunately the loudest voices are the ones that get addressed, and these days people kick up a fuss over black people in video games because of SJWs or some other bogeymen (not accusing you of doing so, but even in this thread someone has brought them up) when as you said there are simpler answers like reinterpretation through a modern lens, or even that the devs just wanted to. Anyway, happy trails! (Edited out a typo)
I just realized that the war they were talking about during the game was the Trojan war
@deathbefallsyou
3 жыл бұрын
Can that be right? The war is ongoing from what I remember from the dialogue (unless I skimmed over it too fast), and Achilles fought and died in that war. Based on dialogue with him (and the fact that he trained Zagreus) he’s been in the underworld for a long time, so the Trojan War has been long over.
@yourineeven8457
3 жыл бұрын
Achilles is in the underworld and what is time really in the underworld? He could be there for 10000 years or 10 seconds for all we know.
@ilikecookies230
3 жыл бұрын
@St. Justice I do remember hearing that the Trojan war was a long one but don’t quote me on that one
@deathbefallsyou
3 жыл бұрын
ilikecookies230 ooo yeah that’s right, makes sense now
@MidnightArctic
3 жыл бұрын
They also explicitly state that Achilles in game is the hero of the Trojan War. They state that if you talk to Achilles enough that other characters or gods comment on you talking to him. Or using the spear enough
looking through the catalogue and archive on /v/, 99% of the threads are overwhelmingly positive. where is this "controversy" supposed to have taken place?
@dumbiepatch
3 жыл бұрын
I know there were more complainers on twitter, but this game has had such a positive reception that they were drowned out. Same with on /v/
@Y0UT0PIA
3 жыл бұрын
@@dumbiepatch Makes sense. Twitter thrives off polarization and breeds all kinds of insanity, because with the character limit and the way the interface works it's practically impossible to offer an effective rebuttal to slogans, paroles and standardized political talking points. Imo its discourse is not representative of anyone other than "people who spend too much time on twitter". I wish we would just stop paying attention to it.
@missingclover
3 жыл бұрын
@@dumbiepatch Thats like making a 15 minute video complaining about how much trash there is in the trash bin.
@Rynewulf
3 жыл бұрын
Well there are lots of comments here: mention a character with anything other than snow white skin in a video game and suddenly they come running apparently
@buttholesurfer1266
3 жыл бұрын
Why would you still go on /v/? Boards culture died long ago, it's reddit town now
Best rouguelite ever. Supergiant have outdone themselves.
Athena and Ares' coloration seemed to evoke the dark tones used in Greek pottery and so forth. Eurydice scans more as a black-coded character to me, and she's half a tree.
@Shinigami13133
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, yeah. There isn't any real racial coding with the Olympians at all. And I think Eurydice only has so much coding with her because she's kinda anachronistic compared to everyone else besides maybe Zag, so it's easier to read those kind of elements into her.
I won't lie, this, in comparison to other videos on here, seems like a meandering one sided perspective. Subjective interpretations are presented as accepted fact or I can't really follow the trail of reasoning that verifies the title of the video. This is cynical of me to say, but I feel like this video was more a need to self validate feelings of dispair brought on by a personsal overindulgence in political media. It's like someone whose head is stuck in the weeds trying to explain to themselves that they're lost in the forest when they might just benefit from pulling their head out for a bit.
@BobExcalibur
3 жыл бұрын
Jesus being interpreted by European artists as white: Problematic
@missingclover
3 жыл бұрын
It's amazing how you spot on summarized a 15 minute video in two paragraphs.
@buttholesurfer1266
3 жыл бұрын
That's pretty much this channel in a nutshell, George thinks he's way smarter than he actually is. He's a pseud in general
@suturesunder3465
3 жыл бұрын
@@buttholesurfer1266 I wouldn't go that far, typically I enjoy the reads in these videos and even if I don't entirely agree I respect George's nuanced perspective. It's just to me, in this video, it seems more like an attempt at trying to construct a poetic reading around sigh summoningly timely and mundane issues. He's looking to mythology to explain why sensational politics makes him sad when maybe he should look at Diocleation retiring to farm cabbages and figure there's a point where you need to take a break from it.
@buttholesurfer1266
3 жыл бұрын
@@suturesunder3465 nah this vid is just his usual shtik, but normally they are written much better
Your video's have a kind of magic to them that makes me want to play every game you feature
Hey man, just thought I'd let you know that I've been watching your videos for like, almost 7 years now and I just wanna say thanks for putting out consistently quality content. I truly hope your channel blows up and you get the recognition you deserve.
I never once thought about Athena's skin color. Maybe because I'm not American and my brain is not melted from discussion about race. In fact the only time I've seen it discussed was when a journalist had to shove the fact that she's a person of color like it's an "achievement"
@DylanJo123
3 жыл бұрын
Its not something most people here care about either. Its just a vocal minority that gets a lot of screen time and attention
@cleit1802
3 жыл бұрын
@@DylanJo123 nah. race IS a huge thing in the USA. People love talking about it and victimizing on it.
@DylanJo123
3 жыл бұрын
@@cleit1802 I must be lucky where i live then
I've missed you!
Dude nobody ive seen cares about the race of the characters in Hades... Get off twitter bunnyhop
You don't need to even explain why a couple of the gods have darker complexions. It's all stylized artistic expression. The designers made what they felt looked good for the design, and thats all.
@WickedKnightAlbel
3 жыл бұрын
And yet some people get mad from simply seeing black people in things
@robertnomok9750
3 жыл бұрын
@@WickedKnightAlbel Raping ancient culture to push BLM agenda is a pathetic way to present your case. USA boys are out of controls
@gaddag1477
3 жыл бұрын
robert nomok Molding previous systems and culture to make it fit current times is how culture changes.
@Zeroharpe
3 жыл бұрын
Oh no I started a culture war
@robertnomok9750
3 жыл бұрын
@@gaddag1477 Culture of different nature that you changed to push agenda? I smell hypocrisy considering whining about cultural apropriation same crowd like to do.
I watched just a couple minutes of this video on its release and decided I wanted to try the game out first. After nearly two months of playing nothing but Hades and loving every second of it I think I can finally finish this video. Thanks George.
George I felt myself settling in for a bad night, with this sense of emptiness that sometimes haunts my mind where I don’t truly feel alive. Somehow, you’ve cheered me up out of this abyss by this topic. Sometimes it feels like all the mysteries have been solved and there’s just this wall to bounce off of over and over again in terms of learning stuff. I used to really love perusing wikipedia or finding history books in my childhood and just... looking at everything. Now, it’s like the patterns just repeat so the meaning of discovery has bled out, withered white. It’s videos like yours that really stir the ancient sensibility of discovery for me. Thank you.
This gave me so much more to think about regarding these old “classical” bits of history that nobody bothered to tell me during school
I don't mind them showing the gods as ethnically diverse, my complaint is that they chose the wrong gods. For example, Artemis was a god that the Greeks likely adopted from "Libyan" peoples, so it is fair to assume she would have African features. Athena, though, was probably as white as sliced bread. That said, I do like the shapeshifting explanation to why they appear the way they do.
@missingclover
3 жыл бұрын
Yep... that just drives the point for me that the skin colors were just an aesthetic choice and George going so into detail about an explanation was just odd.
It's bizarre. About 10 minutes ago I just realized I hadn't seen a video of yours show up in my notifications in forever, wondering if you were even still around. And I found out my notifications were set to 'Personalized', whatever that means, and changed it. And voila, minutes later.
@Mac_Omegaly
3 жыл бұрын
I had a simular problem. I thought the channel was dead. I last tunned in at the beginning of the year.
@Y0UT0PIA
3 жыл бұрын
ah yes, "personalized" in the sense that youtube decides what you should be notified for. that's some funny newspeak.
I know you like greek history and all but you didnt have to pretend to talk about a video game when you really didnt. Such is life of the youtube game i guess
George, just wanted to say how much I love your content. Always been a huge fan.
I wasn’t expecting a Camus reference. But hot damn did it hit me like a boulder going back down a hill.
@Yaver14
3 жыл бұрын
You bastard, you genius.
I think the final note is unjustified, although its understandable why you feel that way. The world may SEEM more corrupt, warlike, hostile and miserable than ever, but that isn't true at all. In the world of mass media, the innate human negativity bias is constantly being fed, but the vast majority of the world is, by every measure, better than it was a few years ago. And its only going to improve, we should take time to remind ourselves of that. You don't need to imagine that the world is improving. You need only look beyond the headlines.
@tomasvallecillo9885
3 жыл бұрын
Whatever you need to tell yourself to cope with the actual unfolding of events. I would much more recommend taking actions necessary to make the world a better place, than pretend that a positive future is inevitable.
@TheAtlasReview
3 жыл бұрын
@@tomasvallecillo9885 You can take whatever action you want, man. Just know that the data shows that the world is trending towards being safer, freer, more prosperous and more equal than ever before, even if it doesn't feel that way. It may dip into bad periods, but this trend is pretty concrete.
@tomasvallecillo9885
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheAtlasReview With all respect, vaguely waving to the concept of "The data" proving your point isn't proof of much. Isn't it a bit arrogant to tell everyone to ignore a set of facts for another set of facts, just because one of those sets of facts mean that things aren't going well? If it's your way of dealing with the anxiety of a climate crisis that we continue not to address, an economy that is quickly consolidating at the very top, with political and economic institutions that refuse to acknowledge any reform, then go ahead. Trends towards an improving quality of life is not a guarantee. Pretending everything is fine, is another day that you can be fine not doing anything about very real crises that may or may not occur in your lifetime. EDIT: Sorry, rereading this, it sounds pretty harsh. I understand what you're saying, but it is belittling to those who are trying to do something about the future. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.
@TheAtlasReview
3 жыл бұрын
@@tomasvallecillo9885 I didn't come with sources prepared because I didn't expect this would be contentious. But HumanProgress is a great place to start. Even if you live somewhere that is quite objectively getting worse - like Turkey, or Hong Kong - it might lift your mood to consider that it is probably just a temporary downturn on a generally upwards-trajectory. I'm not telling you to stop fighting for change or anything like that. If people became complacent, the data I'm talking about would likely start to slip. We aren't a utopia yet, and there's still work to do. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't let themselves become depressed by the gloom, and that if they find that happening to themselves then it might be heartening to look at the improvements that are being made. I think we've just had some miscommunication. All the best.
@tomasvallecillo9885
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheAtlasReview It's a glass half-full vs. half-empty conversation, kinda. Some people are motivated by pessimism, and some optimism. Different approaches.
r/iamverysmart
Man, 2016 really is the gift that just keeps on giving
Oi KZread this is like my favorite channel why didn’t you tell me this video came out
Damn, now I gotta play this before watching
As someone who also went on a long crazy bike tour, you convinced me play Death Stranding (which I adored). As someone who is legit getting a Myth of Sisyphus tattoo... You've convinced me to play Hades.
Don't care about the politics of this because I'm not American but I feel like you talked very little about the actual themes of Hades itself.
I can’t afford to buy this game under quarantine, but from footage I’ve watched, I love that Sisyphus IS happy; he seems like a cheerful and kind guy.
Love how 10% of the video is about the actual game. :)
Wow. What an impressive quote “we must imagine ourselves happy”! Who coined it? Was it you, Bunnyhop? That’s cool.
@TheeMFGr0uch
Жыл бұрын
Albert Camus on his Essay named "The Myth of Sisyphus". Great read, highly recommend it if you're at all interested in philosophy.
So I guess he liked the game?
I literally just started playing this game, its literally 🔥
@pachychon
3 жыл бұрын
literally
@ilikecookies230
3 жыл бұрын
🔥
@LazyRare
3 жыл бұрын
ok
@Dredrick
3 жыл бұрын
If it's literally fire, then it's not really a game is it
@Ass_Blaster_Disaster_Master
3 жыл бұрын
I am literally making this reply.
Here in Greece we have a saying for when things are going or have gone to shit, which roughly translates 'Zeus is fucking again'. For example: -2020 sucks, worst year ever -Yeah, Zeus is fucking again
This channel is basically just "History and Mythology in Video Games" now and I'm all here for it
I never thought of greek mythology as proto existentialism but that makes perfect sense and it is fucking genius. Excellent piece.
@hazardousjazzgasm129
2 жыл бұрын
It's a rephrasing of Camus' famous argument
Boy, I caught it early this time.
@aaronmarko
3 жыл бұрын
That's what she said...about COVID.
Amazing work as always George. Ancient history is so fascinating. Especially when you realize how much of it shaped the modern world.
I really dig this essay, man. Probably one of the most constructive ways to get things off your chest I've ever seen and heard. It must have been cathartic to write, record, and release this. Good on you, brother.
George, a whole analysis and justification for black versions of the gods isn't warranted or productive. It should be a footnote, something to comment on in passing. Race-based content is so damn tired and I wish you would stay off that particular bandwagon. The notion that black versions of gods don't belong is stupid, of course. Call it such in a sentence, and move on. We're tired of the subject. The subject is tired. No lecture needed.
@policesquad
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed, was there even a controversy, I don't recall one?
@JanPospisilArt
3 жыл бұрын
Nah. The thing that gets proven every single time is that if nobody talks about this kind of stuff, the nazis will. And it's not great if their take is the only one out there. The lecture is, and always will be needed, unfortunately.
@kazziemilner
3 жыл бұрын
@@JanPospisilArt The Nazis are dead. No one listens to what you call the Nazis of today, no one is onboard with their goals, at least there wasn't but when you keep harping on about it, you get what you say you are against. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their ideas are so prevalent in society, George had to create a straw-man argument to make his point.
11:48 "So wait, is Greek Theology just Proto-Existentialism?" "It always was" Also, I know a ton of this is more the historical themes of struggle, self-realization and possibly improvement, if not simply self-acceptance of fate, very loosely analagous to the Rogue-like nature of Hades, but I kinda wanna know what George actually thought about the game itself
@RobinOttens
3 жыл бұрын
I assume he likes it. But I too would have liked at least some mention of how he felt the game deals with these themes and if it's good in that regard. Again, I assume it is.
@PsychOsmosis
3 жыл бұрын
With a 98% positive score on Steam (take a look at the *noclip* documentary on the game's creation), I'm pretty sure almost everybody loves this game, George included.
@zeppie_
3 жыл бұрын
Looking at the gameplay, he’s maxed out at least 2 relics, and has ‘hiscovered’ patroclus’ name, so from than we can reasonably deduce that he’s played this game for a bit at least
@Northreyar7314
3 жыл бұрын
Probably will have to listen to the podcast to find out. Dad and Sons has definitely become the mainline George content since this channel gets updated for what if feels like once every 2 months
Cant watch this fully because i havent fully completed the story, but now im motivated to so i can watch more of your content. Thanks for the boost
SuperBunnyhop videos that include real history are by far my favourites.
Ummmmmm so what's the game like?
@gregoryyoung1141
3 жыл бұрын
The title clearly says "Story & Theme Discussion," not "Gameplay Review." If you can't be bothered to read, you're going to be disappointed.
@SaintZ42
3 жыл бұрын
@@gregoryyoung1141 Yeah buddy I still enjoyed the video. I fucking love greek myths but god damn I was wondering about this game just a little. This is a clear left turn for sbh, so don't be a superior asshole if people question why he doesn't talk about the game directly.
@arthurdent9745
3 жыл бұрын
@@SaintZ42 The game is great. It does get a little sappy in places but overall, the game is fantastic. Many say they don't like it simply because they died a lot in the beginning but of course, that is to be expected.
@Msoulwing
3 жыл бұрын
@@SaintZ42 Hades has great combat and satisfying progression, though the RNG can make some runs feel bad (but the game is super easy to mod if you want to mitigate that). It can also get kind of grindy, but it has so much dialogue that after 50+ runs (each of which takes between 30-50 minutes to complete if you survive), I still haven't heard everything. Hitting credits is more of a midway point than the end of the game.
@BaneDane_JB
3 жыл бұрын
Its a rogue lite, you run through procederuely generated dungeons whilst unlocking new shit to make newer runs different. Unlike other rogue like/lites you dont find you weapons in the dungeon but you pick one before started a run (Sword Bow ect.) then find buffs for that weapon and power set in the dungeon taking away an obtuse part of RNG in the genre. I never played it but this is what i've gathered having watched a stream.
Put the ad in the middle maybe? i got chills at your ending line about imagining ourselves happy and i was hoping to sit and wallow in my own self-reflection for a brief moment but before the music had even shifted I was being sold a product. I get that that's youtube, make that money son, but there's gotta be a better place to put these sponsorships. You're making great art my friend, keep it up.
Thanks for the video, quality content as usual!
Really cool to see you channel your reading and current history fascination into these videos. This is a great overview of greek culture! (From someone with a degree in classics here) Ton’s of luck to have a big budget game about the greek bronze age release shortly before this one, so you could get this all out in chronological order. Good stuff!
@buttholesurfer1266
3 жыл бұрын
How's that degree serving you
@12kwh
3 жыл бұрын
@@buttholesurfer1266 really terribly. Don’t make the same mistake
@buttholesurfer1266
3 жыл бұрын
@@12kwh ha no surprises here
I just started playing this game and I didn’t expect to like this much. There’s so much effort put into it and you can’t tell by watching footage of the game, you need to play it for at least an hour to start to see it. I have been waiting for more people to make videosbon it because its influence in youtube is limited atm.
Gosh dang you do good work
You're so smart George
I really like your content, George, and I don't even disagree with your intent. But if you are going to so contemptously dismiss others and their arguments as being uneducated, then you might want to look into what the Ancient Greeks meant when they called a people "Aithiopian," lest you commit the same offense yourself. Spoiler: it wasn't the modern Ethiopians or what an average person today would identify as "Black." Maybe come on down from the tower and treat others with less derision and more as a peer?
@chickenicecream1942
3 жыл бұрын
I did a quick lookup on google and it seems to confirm what George says. Could you cite sources to the contrary? You make an interesting point.
@laggyspammail4090
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I'd like to read this too, can you elaborate?
@plaguecocktor7010
3 жыл бұрын
Aithiopian means he whose face looks burnt. Αιθίοπας = αιθ + ὄψ. (opsis/Όψις) Όψ = Όψις = view/face/to see smth with your eyes. Ancient Greeks called them "Αιθίοπες" to differentiate their race from theirs. They called them "burnt people" because they looked as if their skin was charred and made entirely black from the sun. Source: I am Greek and I have studied ancient Greek and know almost every word's etymology. It's mandatory in Greek education to study Ancient Greek for 6 years. I also took up Philosophy in my university, making it a total of almost 10 years of Ancient Greek studies.
@icyjiub2228
3 жыл бұрын
@@plaguecocktor7010 soooo...... They were Tanned enough that the greeks thought they were cooked. So they were black. That's what that means. I'm sorry but this anti-progressive grasping for straws is so fucking hilariously opaque.
@eleccy
3 жыл бұрын
@@icyjiub2228 To be honest that's a shameful disregard on your part for the historical knowledge Plague has brought to the comment section. What they are saying is true and you're too busy trying to infer some sort of scurrilous reason for it to actually take it in.
Good to hear your voice again, man.
i saw the colour choice as just that. heck, the whole game seems to run on jojo-colors.
But isn't existentialism about a lack of meaning in the world, that there's no primordial chaos and no primordial goodness?
@Msoulwing
3 жыл бұрын
That would be existential nihilism, which is a distinct philosophy. To quote Wikipedia, "Existentialism is a form of philosophical enquiry that explores the nature of existence by emphasizing experience of the human subject" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism
@BaneDane_JB
3 жыл бұрын
You're missing a step, since there is no meaning in the world you need to find one for yourself, and that's a good thing
@cloud_and_proud
3 жыл бұрын
@@BaneDane_JB I know it very well, it's just not relevant to my point. EDIT: Actually, it proves my point, if the meaning is already chaos, then you wouldn't need to find a meaning for yourself.
@cloud_and_proud
3 жыл бұрын
@@Msoulwing I should really read Camus.
Nice one, George.
Another fun Mnemnon fact: he may be a father of Thor according to Snorri Sturluson. That Thor.
Well done. Thanks for tieing it all together
What do you know of the gods, stranger?
spending 5 minutes on a controversy that was based on like 5 tweets, youre truly addicted to social media and to your twitter clique
Athena was never portrayed as black. Sole reason she was in this game was for Social Justice reasons. Why is it so hard to admit this? xD I don't even care she's black, just admit the people in that company have a Social Justice bias!!
@emulation2369
3 жыл бұрын
He want to look "smart and open-minded", but yep, it was just for inclusivity reasons only
@Y0UT0PIA
3 жыл бұрын
Seconded. Regardless of what you think of representation in itself, the "no, you see, the fact that you even think that we could be doing this for representation just shows, like, your own prejudices. this is totally what the Greeks would have done if they were making this game."-spiel is pure sophistry.
@TimmacTR
3 жыл бұрын
@@Y0UT0PIA I think you're the one engaging in sophistry. My point is that Athena being black is not an expected representation. This is correct. However, this doesn't mean they shouldn't do it, or that the game is not good. These are assumptions leftists are making, trying to vilify people who tell the truth.
@TimmacTR
3 жыл бұрын
@@obinowankenobi 1-So, where does your comment contradict what I said about Greeks not representing their Gods as Greek looking? 2-Also, your interpretation of "because they were racist" is a non-mistakable sign of interpretation of history through your biased current-day political views and ideologies. You are 100% biased at least to some degree there, maybe you didn't notice. But I invite you to reflect on this. No need to answer me on that. 3-On the comment itself. I mean, all civilizations borrow myths, technology, stories etc from other foreign cultures and "culturally appropriate" them, if you pardon my use of modern day parlance. There is literally nothing wrong in that. People reflect their values, beliefs and cross-generational learnings in their myths and stories. It's normal that they also reflect themselves in these stories. There is 0% wrong with Greeks representing their Gods as people who look like them, just like there is 0% wrong with this studio representing Greek Gods (not anyone's property I think) however they want. No natural moral law is violated. 4-Though, here is a curveball for you. According to your own leftist beliefs, this is cultural appropriation 101. So, if you believe in cultural appropriation as a bad thing, you should condemn the studio for misrepresenting Greek culture. Since you won't, you're probably going to display your hypocrisy. So, again, Athena was never portrayed as black by Greeks, nothing wrong with that if these people do it, but don't pretend they don't have a leftist ideological bias..
@TimmacTR
3 жыл бұрын
@@obinowankenobi So, your point is no one cares? For someone who doesn't care you do seem to care quite a bit.. xD "The game never claims this is historically accurate, it's not trying to be historically accurate" And it's not historically accurate, and that's plenty fine bro, I said it in my original comment. I said there's nothing wrong with that but that the design choices of that studio is influenced by their political biases. There's nothing wrong in that. I'll spell it one more time: there's absolutely no moral problem with "cultural appropriation". My point is that in their case, this design decision came from an ideological view of the world, that's all. Only thing that is a sacrilege in my eyes is if the game is bad. Which it's not. It's a great game and I love it. I'm a big fan of Supergiant Games, I loved and played all their games. I'm just a bit tired of great developers talking politics or letting their ideology cross into their work. And don't forget, the subject was opened by SuperBunnyHop, not me. DoN't blame me about giving my opinion about what I think is true about a subject he opened. He's just wrong, and that's the truth. No drama, I just say what I believe is the truth. Athena's art choice was an ideological one, that's it. But hey, I'm not the artist, only the consumer..
All your videos are so very interesting! Love the Camus quote, if you haven't I recommend most of his books, in France we often read them in schools. They are a bit grim but deeply interesting and well written!
We will make it through. Right.
Ha, joke's on you Bunnyman, I don't have lockdown depression, I was depressed way before the quarantine started.
you deserve much more views man
@klaussone
3 жыл бұрын
I think there are good reason for the decline in its viewership in the last 2 years. Maybe the hint of pretentiousness. Maybe the occasional political bias. Can't really pin point it. But whatever its is its on a slow burn downhill.
Today is a good day The rabbit man uploads once more
If you wanna keep talking about Mythology, talk about the La-Mulana games! Those are good :D
jsyk george you are the greatest content creator on youtube