I do respect how straight forward most early growth is "your a baby your helpless without aid now good luck" but the problem is, its just not fun in any single way the thrill of being prey to everything wears off really quickly when you don't have anything to do but sit still and wait to be somewhat decent, adding some gimmicks to early growth would help some might not be 100% accurate but what matters is if its fun for the player to do.

@lustrazor44

2 ай бұрын

There needs to be baby interactions. Like playing with other babies to increase growth rate or something. Hunting together or hunting eachother playing tag. Simulate being a baby.

@troythedeconstructionist1382

2 ай бұрын

Growth is a fundementally flawed mechanic most of the time. It's just an arbitrary timer before you're actually able to play the game.

@sethdiedalongtimeago

Ай бұрын

Saurian does a good job of this. better than any other dinosaur survival game anyway however idk if it'll ever get done😕

I think one good example of this already is The Isles Megalania: as a child it is very nimble and light meaning it can climb trees like a Hererra, but only temporarily and not as well but it serves to give Hererras as source of prey that can't directly compete with them and gives the Meg a way to hide as a baby but forces them to leave that niche once they can fend for themselves

Growth isn’t bad just make younger dinosaurs more interesting and viable like climbing trees or different food sources

If people were creative enough to come up with other ways of making your death impactful, we would have significantly more enjoyable dinosaur survival games.

@Splooje

2 ай бұрын

I got an idea for that. Dinosaurs never hatched alone, you could spawn as a group of hatchlings, the others being AI. Leads to bigger/more realistic herds. When you die you switch to one of the bots. hopefully it would end up "survive longer to keep your heard larger" but I would guess it would end up with the AI being targeted. Optimization would probably be a bit of a problem too

@colinrogers9896

2 ай бұрын

No, we need a new camera system

@pain002

2 ай бұрын

@@colinrogers9896first person, preferably

@Splooje

2 ай бұрын

Or you could start as an adult with hatchlings, the objective being protect and raise them to adulthood, and then if you die you then switch to the hatchlings. While you're an adult you could complete xyz missions to activate another egg laying, reupping on new lives

@goldfishmentality

2 ай бұрын

@@pain002 indeed, so it'll require absolutely no skill to ambush someone. Because we all know how difficult it is to be forced to improve at a video game xD

honestly im suprised these games HAVENT done this yet I've always thought of how cool it'd be for these survival games to give multiple niches for growth stages for something like rex where it acts as a small pursuit predator until full maturity where it becomes a large game ambusher

I agree with all of this. Growth is almost like a paywall behind a paywall, but instead of paying with money you have to pay with time that will be 90% wasted on nothing fun happening.

This niche-partitioning concept is something I wanted for a long time in these games. Not just because it would make juvi play time more fun, but also because it is based on actual science. Tyrannosaurs being one of the best examples. You start out as kind of a glass-cannon (fast, agile, good damage for your size but bad hp/defens) a pursuit hunter of small prey, and as you enter sub-adult stage you gradually trade your speed and some of your maneuverability for more hp and damage becoming more of an ambush hunter / bruiser.

Another big problem with growth in the Isle is that an older animal is always superior in every single way to a younger animal by all in game metrics. Higher hp, speed, damage, everything. In reality if you were to plot an animal's speed against its age you'd get a left-skewed bell curve: the top speed goes up really fast from the infant stage as the limbs grow longer very quickly relative to the animal's weight, peaks at young adult but then starts to drop steadily over time as age and weight (and that darn square-cubes law) take their toll. You kinda touched on this without directly saying it with the Ava/Trike comparison. Avas are noticeably faster than adult trikes, and juvie trikes should be around that speed, too, not just a defenseless meatball on legs like the Legacy juvie trike is. Strength, stamina, and stamina regen should follow similar patterns, though maybe with slightly different offsets. The fact that they're actively planning to have dying of old age be a thing but have all stats increase linearly and then remain static when an animal reaches adult hood perplexes me. A juvenile shouldn't be able to win a 1 on 1 fight with an adult of the same species, but it absolutely _should_ have a solid chance at being able to run away. In The Isle, though, younger dinosaurs exist only to get run down and eaten by adults, so obviously you're going to want to sit in a bush. Like X Zaguer said, the stupid diets were an attempt to force people to not AFK grow without actually addressing the fact that the current growth system sucks.

@alunaticwithashotgun9840

2 ай бұрын

I disagree with the last part, yes it is true for some animals that they are defenseless against the adults, mainly Cera and Deino and Stego, but that's pretty much it, the rest can out manuever or straight up outrun the adults no matter the species and as they grow they get strong enough to fight threats their size without needing to be fully grown, like a 500kg+ Cera, Dilo or Carno can have a fair fight against a fully grown Omni or Pachy.

@AKayani559

2 ай бұрын

Actually no most animals are way slower than adults irl and you have alot stam as a baby for a reason and more agile so you can run and doge untell you find a good finding spot that's what I did and it mostly worked

@timber7847

2 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@alunaticwithashotgun9840saying a 500kg+ animal has a fair matchup against omni and pachy is a crazy take for cera and Carno. Carno basically dies from a full pounce and can’t run when getting pounced, cera has a alright matchup even though pounce will shred its hp at that size. Pachy thought there is no way a Carno or cera that size wins against a pachy.

@alunaticwithashotgun9840

2 ай бұрын

@@timber7847 500kg Cera pretty much annihilates anything it's size (maybe not Pachy rn Idk, I have fought Pachys as a Cera that size before and won though), and it's the size range to not get pinned by an Omni so Carno has a chance too, though yea it's better if it's over 500kg, like 550-600 hence why I said 500kg"+". Not impossible though, you just gotta be both smart and lucky.

@timber7847

2 ай бұрын

@@alunaticwithashotgun9840 you called it a fair matchup. And now you say you have to be lucky? No competent pachy or omni will lose to a cera or Carno that size.

The difference between Monster Hunter and the Isle is in Monster Hunter you don't have to start over in the Ancient Forest with the Great Jagras every time you cart. You really can't compare the "play forever" aspects because one game punishes you for failure and the other doesn't.

@yaboiiunclephil1552

2 ай бұрын

I mean MH is also a completely different kind of game with a loop focused on weapon based combat. Comparing these games in any way makes no sense lmao

The game should not be BASED around growing, but based around how you fullfill your role in the eco-system, this is why, in my opinion, the BEST, ABSOLUTE BEST possible gameplay loop for the isle is the old old old old progression system it had back in 2016-2019. The system is basicaly, you play with your selected adult dinossaur from a specific line, and as you play with it, enjoying its mechanics, you will gain more points to progress to a bigger dinossaur, this is absolutely perfect, since everyone can actually enjoy the dinossaurs, no matter if small, medium, of apex, and fullfill their duty in the foodchain/ecosystem, making it more dynamic, diverse and fun, nesting in this mode is an option, but not the rule, i hope you see this comment and maybe give your considerations about the progression system, it was perfect, and its extremely frustrating to me as an old the isle player see how the community have completely forgoten about the classic points-based progression system.

@Master-Wanderer

2 ай бұрын

Agreed.. This is why I am enjoying servers that promote Dinosaur Profiles that you have to adhere to when fulfilling an ecological niche.. I don't mind growing but losing ALL your progress deters alot of people and causes nothing but frustration which can turn in to toxicity.. I left The isle for Path of Titans 6 months ago and Im having so much more fun on PoT than I ever had on The Isle legacy or Evrima

@Dinoman9877

2 ай бұрын

You end up with the same problem in a different skin. People start out as small and helpless (helpless only because the developers can't make a viable small species to save their lives) and people simply sit and wait around to become big enough to survive, but instead of going from a small version of a species to a big version, you're trading out a smaller species for a larger species instead. Functionally, nothing changes. People 'play' the smaller species more in the most general sense of the term, but only because they're forced to, and they play no differently than they would as a baby, only doing the bare minimum to eat and drink before going back to hiding and waiting to become something bigger and more 'viable'. Progression implies you're working toward something 'better' when the game's inherent flaw is treating the smaller species as worse and the larger species as better. At least with growth, the idea is you know what the species' role is, how it plays, and what its limitations are. You choosing that species is you accepting the role its meant to fulfill in the ecosystem. PoT and BoB showed very quickly why only minor punishment (or lack of punishment at all) upon dying doesn't work out. PoT is even more of a mindless kill for sport fest than The Isle, and auto-revive killed off the majority of BoB's already dwindling community since the dead don't stay dead. The only solution is for the devs to make the small species actually viable and fun ON TOP of making the babies not entirely useless. Hypsi, for example needs about three times as much stamina as it has now, tree climbing (it should have gotten it when herra came out) and its vomit mechanic fixed or binned for something new (you have to stop and face your attacker to use it as an animal which is near universally one shot, and it fails to register as a hit the majority of the time) and then you have the very bare minimum of making Hypsi actually enjoyable to play. But they don't do that. They consistently ignore the smaller species' functions to make the big, flashy dinosaurs instead, and just like in Legacy, people ignore the smaller species entirely as a result, because why play something that has no way of evading death?

@Master-Wanderer

2 ай бұрын

@@Dinoman9877 Food on legs basically

@AKayani559

2 ай бұрын

Growing a dinosaur is what makes people wanna play these games in the first place

@altercard5389

2 ай бұрын

​@@AKayani559and yet it's among the most disliked parts of these games.

In Path's defense, it's the type of quests that are bad, not necessarily the quest system itself. The quests are like 80% collection quests, 10% world exploring quests, 5% godawful delivery quests, and 5% "kill a critter/herbivore/eat" kind of quests. The system can work for the MMO style they chose, they just need better AI and a quest overhaul. Both of which are announced to be coming this year too.

Meanwhile Ark players know that dinosaur growth is all about elaborate breeding programs to take dinosaurs to war.

I agree, I always wanted juveniles or even sub adults to have their own niches, and another good example for that could be T.Rex and Alberto, at first you might think that it's a problem that works against Alberto but I think it's the opposite, because an adult T.Rex is slow and probably has much less stamina than the sub adult like pretty much every playable it would force it to rely on ambushing and brawling, while the sub adult could easily chase it's prey. This would make the playstyles of both growth stages completely different and if you want to stay as a sub Rex because it's fun then you play Alberto, of course in this example you don't really need to give the sub Rex additional mechanics that it would lose in adulthood. An example for the latter can be Stego, right now it can't swing it's tail while moving in any of it's growth stages, why not make it able to swing while running when it's a juvenile, swing while walking when it's a sub adult and then make it need to stop in it's place to swing.

They really need to make growth at the longest like an hour and a half for like sauropods or megatheropod carnivores

I've never understood the complaints about growth. I'm one of those freaks (affectionate) who deletes a fully grown dino so I can make another one and grow again. I do that in both The Isle and PoT because to me, growing IS the game. And I do play on officials on PoT. When you're fully grown the game just becomes a deathmatch, unless you have friends that need help growing. And hey, there are deathmatch servers in both games - at least in Legacy. Just go to one of those if you think growth is stupid. But you know what I think? I think these people don't actually want growth to be removed from these games. They just want themselves to be able to skip it, while the rest of the server should be populated with easy-to-kill juveniles and adolescents. That's why semi-realism and other ruled survival servers are the most popular. The whole concept that your gameplay only truly begins at full growth is based on some people's unquestioned discomfort at being at a disadvantage in a video game. I'm sorry if your concept of fun is exclusively about having power over other people's gameplay. I personally like the tension of being a little creature in a world filled with enemies and sometimes giving those enemies the slip despite being at a disadvantage. Distracting a big predator so my friends can escape, or fighting another juvenile over scraps of food we can't afford to share - that's the fun stuff.

@ingrida1121

2 ай бұрын

I came here to say the exact same thing. Completely agree. People thing that the end game is where the game begins, which is false. However, baby dinosaurs should have their own ecosystems and their own perks, to make it interesting. Adding better stamina for babies is a good start, but i thing different diets, different agility and abilities, would make the game more interesting. Like, young carnos should be able to jump, young raptors could have the ability to climb trees, baby stegos could do more bleed damage rather than actual damage, baby ceratos could be faster than adults.

@WolvenfaceArts

2 ай бұрын

I do agree with you! In parts. I'm a really old player of The isle, and back then- the first even diferent mode that wasnt sandbox was "Progression". It was some kind of evolution, you want to play as a T-rex? Fine, but you would need to first play as velo, then utahraptor, carnotaurus and then you can get to play as a T-rex! You had to play as adults of other species and survive to gather enough points to transition for another species. Yes, you would not start to play as a dino you liked.. but there is the catch- you could actually play the game. You did not starr as a worthless baby who cant do nothing but AFK grow, you start with an adult dino who has it owns gameplay and even though there are a tier weaker you can still do thousand of things with it! I remember it was when I most had fund and find new friends, and when I finally get to the apex- I would kill myself and play all over again, because reaching to that point was fun. Survival mode is just AFK, for me atleast I can't see no fun anymore. It took me years to finally get on this "burnout" of survial stage.

@RedexTwo

2 ай бұрын

@@WolvenfaceArtsI love survival, but I really miss progression. I wish we could have had both

@SkuddeOuo

2 ай бұрын

@@WolvenfaceArts For The Isle I can see why growing sucks, because it really is just sitting and waiting. Even with the diet system, once you have the diet it becomes sitting and waiting. And since death means starting it all over again, that's where my tiredness with The Isle comes from as well. One thing PoT does well is make death punishing, but not devastating. Imo it should be a bit more punishing that it is now, but it's harsh enough most of the time. In BoB it's either all or nothing and I don't like where growth and death is in that game right now.

@SkuddeOuo

2 ай бұрын

@@ingrida1121 In PoT a lot of those are a thing. Every juvenile dino can jump and they all have better stamina, turning radius and relative run speed compared to their adult counterparts. Being able to jump is pretty big in PoT's maps, because a lot of rock formations are like little ladders that you can climb if you can jump even a little bit.

The isle devs after seeing this video: I think we should add……….NEW TEXTURES!!!

This is honestly my new favourite channel!! Video game critiques are so insanely interesting and when they’re about the games I play they’re even better. Love your stuff you’re so underrated. As they say in PoT, W Zaguer.

Idea for all dinos: give young dinos unique mechanics their adult versions don't have. Like young sauropod being able to sprint on two legs, young semi-aquatics who can't dive as adults being able to dive when younger, or some young dinos being able to climb but not as adults. Idea for apexes: don't just make their growth times absurd. Make them reasonable, but add challenges unique to them like they only gain growth progress when your dino has X characteristic (good diet for example or high comfort).

1. I would reduce the roster and make sure what I add will fill a niche, so no two animals play relatively the same. They plan way too many similar animals with similar lifestyles (Eg.: Sucho and Bary). 2. I would make young creatures much faster and have better turn radius than their adult counterparts. Among reptiles, this is usually the case irl as well. This will improve survive-ability. Go as far as changing young animal models to be more streamlined. Eg.: Make young stegos thinner, slightly longer legs, no plates until they start to grow in at the beginning of sub-adult stage. 3. I would do the same as you say, make young animals fill a different niche from their adult counterparts. In Evrima's case... I would have not added Herrera, and instead had young Megalania jump through the trees. Or what was mentioned, have young trike play like an adult ava. The difference is, that I am unsure I would add herrera or even ava to the game, seeing as their niche will be filled anyway. 4. More hiding spots where smaller animals can hide from larger ones. Like logs, crevices. Sure there is foliage but everyone can just bite and hit foliage where they think you are hiding and eventually kill you anyway. 5. Add some very small AI that is only meant to be eaten by juveniles. Bugs, lizards, birds for carnivores. Small berries, mushrooms, and grass shoots for herbivores. Adults would not be able to eat those.

This is why I miss Progression mode on The isle. I'm a really old player of The isle, and back then- the first even diferent mode that wasnt sandbox was "Progression". It was some kind of evolution, you want to play as a T-rex? Fine, but you would need to first play as velo, then utahraptor, carnotaurus and then you can get to play as a T-rex! You had to play as adults of other species and survive to gather enough points to transition for another species. Yes, you would not start to play as a dino you liked.. but there is the catch- you could actually play the game. You did not start as a worthless baby who cant do nothing but AFK grow, you start with an adult dino who has it owns gameplay and even though there are a tier weaker you can still do thousand of things with it! I remember it was when I most had fund and find new friends, and when I finally get to the apex- I would kill myself and play all over again, because reaching to that point was fun. Survival mode is just AFK, for me atleast I can't see no fun anymore. It took me years to finally get on this "burnout" of survial stage. No games is fun for me anymore, Beast of bermuda, Path of titans.. I really hope some kind of Progression mode is make in any other game.

I just bought path and i really underestimated how much time i would be spending as a juvenile. Even on comunity servers with extra growth. Ive played for maybe 5 or 6 hours and only probably 20 minutes as an adult.

I used to play legacy isle on a server that had implemented its own sort of gameplay loop. You could “sell” a grown dinosaur in the discord for a currency that you could use to buy teleports, grows or inject as non survivals. Each dinosaur was worth differing amounts depending on growth length but I gave an actual loop. You could play the game and if you started getting bored on a full grown dinosaur, sell it and play as something else. It wasn’t the best system by any means but it was an actual loop with incentives and it made the game more enjoyable

Bro I love your videos and the music backround choice this time is great

I hope you make a video on path when its quest revamp comes

In LoL, everyone more-or-less "grows" at the same time and within a set match period. Whereas, in the Isle everyone is growing at different times and from different starting points. This difference makes a huge result in the enjoyability.

I can't get a hang why people complaining about the growth. Since it doesn't take long to be able to do things. If to compare with other games, you may waste your time looting, grinding, or do other not fun stuff, but when it comes to 30m growth, people find it a big issue

When I played the Isle back then, growing was the funniest part for me, to be honest. Reaching adult, mostly with apexes, is where it gets boring, as it's too easy. Basically, I didn't play this game to get, powerful and kill everything. I played it to feel fear of being small and running from other things that try to eat you. But if your objective in this game and your only fun is when you grow to adult... let me tell you, you in a wrong game, sir.

Omg this is an amazing idea. I was wondering how you could improve growth.

For me baby is the best part of dino game The Isle or PoT. We are weak, cute and everything is dangerous. I don't know how many time i almost got a heart attack just beacause a stupid butterfly appear in my screen as a baby in PoT. I love that.

You're absolutely right when you talk about different ecologies for different stages, and I would go as far as develop different niches for younger dinos. Using T. Rex as an example, the juveniles were actually considerably slimmer, faster and more agile than their adult counterparts, and were more comparable to Alioramus than Rex itself. And this makes sense, because as a young animal you'll have to chase down preys much smaller and faster than the preys you'd hunt down as an adult, as well as having to run from many more threats during your growth. Same applies to most other dinos. So what I would do is create a whole other model and stats for the dinos in their growing stage. instead of having scaled down weaker versions, so they can actually fulfill a much more diverse role in terms of gameplay. I would also change the growth speed of each stage (hatchling to juvie would be extremely fast, juvie to adolescent would be relatively fast and the later stages would become way more difficult and slow), as well as making environmental changes to the game to allow smaller players to escape more easily (caves, thick and low forests which would slow down bigger players, narrow paths etc.). Finally, I would also give each stage different abilities, in order to once again make the gameplay more diverse and also more engaging and fun: a juvenile could have a slow stamina drain with a faster running pace, while an adult would be much more sluggish but have access to more powerful charging attacks.

Back in legacy when survival was a new game mode the 3 growth stages were very well balanced out.

Besides the facts that growing on official in pot takes FOREVER! Like really it can take days

Beast of Bermuda growth literally takes years cuz I’ve been growing my dino for 2 years now 💀

@frostmint3584

2 ай бұрын

Oof

@WolvenfaceArts

2 ай бұрын

Beast of bermuda growth is infinite 😅

I really like the jouvie and sub adult stage in dinosaur survival games, because the adult stages feel stale to me and because I like the tension of traversing the map as a small baby and then getting extremely scared for every sound I hear. Sorry if my English isnt good, im not a native english speaker

It is nice that I don’t spawn as an adult. However, waiting 4-6 hours is insufferable.

@alonelyperson6579

2 ай бұрын

I don't agree I prefer that there's an actual growth period anything shorter just makes it feel instant and removes any frills while being young

I feel like a bunch of these more open world survival games can even take notes from games like Skyrim and Oblivion. These people have been playing both of those games for years and years (I think Skyrim just had its 12th anniversary this past November?). They come back because even though it's the same quests in the same characters the gameplay loop is stellar. The only people I see really taking notes from them seems to be Path of Titans what with its modding community. (As that's also a large part of why Skyrim is still being played). That being said though, I play path of Titans on a semi-regular basis, and usually only when there's a new dinosaur to try because that's the only fresh way to redo the growth cycle.

I think I found a way to help fix growth in path of titans. Right now the issues are that it’s incredibly boring punishing. Firstly critters need to roam around maps in a radius around burrows. Secondly they should have the ability to fight, each critter using its own mechanics and it should be able to eat/drink/dig up resources. This way areas can become infested with critters. This means that a critter infestation will hurt everyone. However if a creature bigger than an adolescent walks within a radius of a critter it will call out and all nearby critters of that species will run and hide. Not only that these players will be to large to dig them out. This means that it falls on players that can’t defend themselves yet to hunt the critters and stop the infestation. This will give baby players something interesting to do and it will encourage larger players not to kill babies as they can benefit them. Also it’ll make the game world less dead.

This is similar to what I have been saying for a bit now, actually make the Juveniles have gameplay mechanics unique to them that keeps their playability fun with the adult stages being a more tanky version of these mechanics with some removed but replaced by more social ones like breeding methods. I think Ancestors: The Human Odyssey is a great example of how they make the juvenile stages just as fun as the adult one.

Personally I don't mind growth, although I can kind of see why some people dislike it. Part of the problem has much more to do with the fairly bare bones gameplay most of them offer and the other problem lies in the player themself. Not really much can be done with the player, if all they want to do is fight other dinosaurs then they will always find no enjoyment from having to grow. As for the actual gameplay, PoT on the right track with the quests system but still falls very short, especially since many of the quests are fairly mindless tasks rather than something that forces to player to actively explore their environment, participate cooperative activities such as nesting, or learn skills in a manor that feel a bit more natural. The isle also had a fairly decent idea with the progression system that unfortunately they threw away. Forcing people to have to grind their way to larger, more powerful dinosaurs; while objectively could be very annoying to the impatient; would help to fill out smaller teirs and could at least give even more an incentive to actively play while growing.

I don't mind growing, if you get an account growth buff. Say you reach full adult with a species, you should get a multiplier speed up to a maximum % for that said species.

I have a wife and a 7 month old baby, I dont got 7 hours of time to grow a rex in the isle and I'm not giving any server any of my money to start fg. I play on fast growth servers in Path of Titans and am having a blast! When I die as adult, it only sets me back to sub adult and within 20 minutes im fg again. its great. I can now play pvp and not be cautious like in the Isle

similar thing happens in ark, except you cant really hide in ark on most servers due to a ton of reasons, and then the only people who still play are those who are able to circumvent starting out while others are already strong (arkpoc day1, or getting supplies from built up friends). Survival pvp in general might have this as an unsolved problem. Your solution, of having different niches, could work but itd take a huge amount of work to implement, since youre basically adding in 20-100% more game systems to support sub adults. Although, being systems that are only engaged with temporarily, they dont need to be as refined as the main gameplay.

I personally always loved the fear that came with being young, I would spend more time growing than being an adult because I simply found it more fun. there were times I would accept a nest invites knowing it would kill my current adult because it was more entertaining to play in a group and be defended/hide than playing solo as an adult without a care in the world.

this isn't in the game itself but with Path of Titans in community servers a lot of people like to start herd or packs and honestly helps with the baby being helpless rule, also i like (Community passive growth, not Official growth) because you end up getting more skills when getting older, so it always feels like growing is worth doing, but I do understand when people don't like PoT. But having a herd and or pack and actually managing to grow up in a pack feels awful, especially when you are getting hunted or you are hunting. There the death actually matters, you loose a herd member, you loose your number in strength and possibly a friend, while hunting if you loose someone while hunting, you loose an intimidation factor, your hunting success right might go down

I like the your idea it sounds nice and reminded me of how t rexes (in real life) niche participated with each other(while growing).

This takes away much of the realism that this type of game offers. Babies can't do the same things as adults and that's okay. Part of the gameplay is precisely surviving this phase where you are unable to fight, and that's why the Games themselves say to get together with friends and groups and herds, so that your chances of growing increase. What I think you need is to have a system where you start together with other players, a group of babies. The nest system that the Path people have been promising for decades makes the game much more fun. Growing up, when you have other friends around you, it's not a problem, it's not boring and it's actually the most fun part of the game

@Dinoman9877

2 ай бұрын

Babies are a result of what is needed for the species to survive. The Isle doesn't design babies with that in mind and that's where the problem lies, and as a result all the babies are universally useless. Baby ostriches come out basically as small adults, capable of moving and feeding themselves nearly immediately. They're capable of running as fast as the adults in as little as a month if not sooner. Or, if we wanted to go with more mammalian influences like the game itself does, a baby wildebeest is able to run as fast as an adult in as little as an hour after its born. But in The Isle, regardless of species, all the babies come out as slow and helpless and need to stay at the nest for an extended period of time, even in species that need to NOT be staying with a nest for an extended period of time. Some species should be able to move fast for decent distance basically out of the egg if only by necessity of how their species plays, namely the flee oriented (or SHOULD be flee oriented but aren't by poor design) dinos like galli, teno, or pachy. These species need to be moving constantly and incubating the eggs already requires them staying in one place longer than they ought. The babies should be capable of keeping up with the adults even as newborns, just so that the herd can get back on the move. As it is now, the end result of these species nesting is just a mass slaughter by predators, all because these species for whom being able to stay on the move is so important are instead stuck in one place until the newborns grow to the juvie stage. Some species though, mostly predators as well as the bulky herbivores like stego, should be reliant on the parents for an extended period and otherwise 'helpless' only so that they aren't immediately deadly on spawning in and should in general be harder to grow since they have more killing power or otherwise need to be kept at a smaller population.

@Puddlesoak

2 ай бұрын

they've been promising a _nest_ system for _decades?_ Bruh, all dinosaur game developers have medically serious mental deficiencies. IQ of actual dinosaurs. One would think putting players together in nests would be a no-brainer default feature on launch. How is it taking them decades

@WolvenfaceArts

2 ай бұрын

The probleam with the Idea of "realism game" is: Players dont play realistic. Realistic, there is no KOS, realistic there isnt "bug abuse", realistic there isnt mixpack and so on.... the games CAN'T be realistic because of the player base, there needs to be a gameplay balance. If you want to play imersive and realistic you can go to a realism server, but the core of the game can not be "realism". This is not a documentary, is a game. Asure you, i'm all of realism, I love playing realism servers but I understand the diference btween RP and the actual game. Let me rent a little about the isle, nothing really about you: Realistic, younger dinos would pair up with yournger version of themself to help growth since they are so week, even you said: " Games themselves say to get together with friends and groups and herds" and okay that is fair, but how the heck would I do this if there isnt a global chat where I can ask people to play with me or even nest me? Or worse, maybe I do get a friends OUTSIDE of the game (that is still a probleam), how will i invite them to my group? How will I find my friend been a recent spwaned juvie on a huge map that I dont even know yet? This is what killed the isle envrima for me... is way more realistic? It is, but damit where is the game on all of this?

Another thing, at least on The Isle, is more player base are on adult stage of growth than juvie, so hiding is best solution for juvies and even Sub-Adults to survive. Speed is also good point, juvies can't escape if spotted by older predators or even K.O.S players. Sancuaries are good on paper to help players, dense area with growth boosting flowers, guarded from sub-adults and olders by Bees. But at moment they face three problems: -There are only two of them at moment on map -To get to those two you have to run a long way to them -When you get there, there is good chance older predator is living in there and feeding on fresh arrivals -This or there is adult camping outside and KOS:ing anyone they see. I wonder why devs didn't just put food that only Juvie herbies could eat into rainforests. They are already somewhat dense with foliage where juvies could hide and i don't find anyone in there anyway except when they are moving between areas. Then again, juvies would need better hearing to spot any sub-adult and adults approaching if they would need to hide within rainforests.

That’s true but what’s difficult is how do we implement and encourage players do fill these niches

I would say Prior extinction on roblox does growth and progress better than the big 3

the fundemental issue is time 10 hours to grow a dino on official servs is absurd 150 quests or 6 hours in the Isle just to die in 2 or 3 hits the core issue of isle being taking forever to grow but getting bit once means GG and game over you spend hours on end to make ur dino big just to restart in a few split seconds this is for POT the isle is kinda dead for me combat needs to be extended and put into categories also example in ( example) bleeder (charca, allo) , would focus on a prolonged fight to bleed out the opponent brawler (rex), would try to end the fight as quickly as possible with high damage output pouncer (raptors mainly), would avoid attacks and punce multiple times for a long period or depending on what dino its pouncing and killing a mix of damage and bleed semi- tanks ( trike, bars), would be able to tank hits for a prolonged fight be it damage or bleed and punishing mistakes heavily heavy tanks (argent and other very big ones) would focus on punish enemy mistakes while being to sustain a lot of damage but they will have longer cooldowns for a tail swing and so on agility based ( mainly a mix of speed and bleed but sometimes raw damage with speed or even venom like megalania) they can also make dinos like trovo where they can output high damage to your stamina exc. growth times low tier dinos 40-50min mid tier 40-60 min for all semi apex 80 min 1 hour 20 min apex 100 min 1 hour 40 min very big dinos like argent 2 hours this would be my opinion of passive growth ( no questing just afk) can get boosted by quests change speed values, damage values, health values, resistance values, bleed value exc.

Hey I’m a huge fan of your channel but I just wanted to make a humble video request if you could talk about the upcoming animal survival game and your opinion on it and what you do and don’t like about it for now they have a trailer on their channel

Ark Survival has you hunting down earth monkeys, killing 80 of them, and then petting your weird dragon baby anyway while waiting approximately 320 hours of gameplay for it to raise.

I think people generally enjoy growth. It has challenge behind it. Unfortunately the problems surrounding it like small server size, giant ass map, and horrible ping affect it to hell and back. Its genuinely discouraging when you die to bullshit. But its also boring as hell when you cant find a single other player.

@WolvenfaceArts

2 ай бұрын

Exactly!

@bamboozledbamboozler

2 ай бұрын

I say the devs need to focus on fixing up the small issues that affect gameplay before trying to revamp parts of growth. I do think we need a bit more than just diets to keep us playing. I think taking away and butchering the few social aspects we had in evrima unironically made it worse than legacy despite objectively improving visuals and gameplay

This is not only balanced but also realistic : T.rex and other mega theropods youngs where leggy predators that hunted small preys , Like coyotes , Baby sauropods peraps ate more bugs and different plants , Baby azdarkid pterosaurs where presumably indipendent and filled different nieches , This also happens in snakes crocodiles and lizards : the youngs are more carnivorous active and small prey focused than the adults ... This has it's ecceptions in the form of hadrosaurs and birds : They have deep maternal instincts and in case of hadrosaurs maybe even altered their landscape for their advantage , So it could work to give an AI mom to hadrosaur players or make them full on like smaller ornitopods

it's not a big enough of a change to fix the whole issue but, since most players are predators and herbivores already have every diet available, i would start making AI mobs giving nutrients to all predators, this way they can still hunt something while they grow and i would make the overall growth being faster, less time consuming, back to it was until few months ago

Babies need abilities like hiding in burrows or masking scent, (if the game has a scent system) or idk we just need ablities that is unique to babies......

Yes

Yes this

My only problem with Dino games is just the lack of player encounters, lack of players doing anything (pot, people just sit around and do nothing) or u get killed on sight aka the isle

They tried to fix it with sanctuaries but nobody really goes there but when they do It feels battle royal

Unpopular opinion: I never enjoyed growth, ever. I always played on servers where you spawn as an adult

There is 1 dino that used to be fun to grow, actually, Imo it was more fun to grow then actually play as adult and that is old evrima carno. The sub was op and needed a nerf to charge damage 100%, but juvi carno used to be so fun, being faster then a Utah and having more stamina means you can run around wherever you want without having to worry about dying besides cannibalism, I miss old juvi evrima carno.

I really liked progression. Like a lot of it is probably nostalgia but damn I actually had fun right of the bat, instead of having to wait like an hour to actually play the game. Growth just feels like a boring chore.

@valtr__

2 ай бұрын

Dying one time is enough to make me stop playing the game. Having to grow again + having to get a good diet to grow faster just makes the game feel monotonous.

At least with path they kinda gaslight you into think questing in fun(if i see the glow now i automatically press my quest button 😂)

IMO they should remove afk growing all together, if we compare it to other survival games like dayz, rust, ark etc you don't progress just by doing nothing, growing might take hours but it could take the same amount of time finding decent gear on dayz or building a base on rust or ark for example and when you die you lose your gear which resets you (a part from your base unless it gets raided and destroyed) so you're back to square 1 again basically with the Isles growing system, I know pot you lose some growth I think so that's 1 of many reason why I never play it. They just need better more interesting ways to do stuff while growing and when you're adult but hopefully the mutations and elders in the Isle will help with that gameplay loop

what do you guys think?uhm... i think u should be hired from the isle team as a counselor and a representative of the isle community!

"People have fun playing league of legends" No, I'm pretty sure it's closer to stockholm syndrome.

You put into words what slowly but surely began to turn me away from these kinds of games and why I can no longer feel excited for new ones as they tend to follow similar mechanics. Everything else being unbalanced about these games is mostly a result of the issues that are at the start of the survival growth journey. The niche idea is something that all these games would benefit from; the question is HOW to go about doing that. Growth times for sure are always way too long if we're being realistic bc most people when they sit down to load up their games they actually, you know, want to PLAY and not have some weird waiting lobby experience that would often be HOURS before they actually get to do that. Don't get me wrong the progression of growth from baby to adult is a neat defining thing in these games but there's literally no real incentive to continue thru the whole process unless you've got some guaranteed group activity or you're confident/skilled enough to stay alive for longer than most people usually are if they decide to stick out the waiting times.

I agree with you. Would be better

There's nothing to do inthe isle, it's all empty. So people resort to KOS to have some amusement out of it

Honestly growth in Evrima is not bad. The jvs and sub play completely different than the adults. Teno is a good example adult teno is a slow brawler while sub teno is faster than Utah and is a really good hit and run dino. Also saying that the jvs are inferior and slower is wrong. Most jvs and subs are faster than their adult stage carno and cera being an exception. And in full honesty sub teno and sub stego are objectively better than their adult counterparts.

If you decide to sit in a bush and do nothing to grow that’s on u you’re supposed to try to survive in the isle people complaining about how they sit in a bush and wait to grow when you could at least try to play the game your supposed to move around scavenging and being careful not to bold and ready to run at any moment not sit there and hide not doing anything until you’re about to starve it’s like if I was camping in cod and got mad that there wasn’t anything fun to do.

The solution of letting the babies fill niches in smaller rolls in the ecosystem is pretty good, but all it does is remind me that progression had that exact same gameplay loop where you started as a small part of the ecosystem and made your way up.

Like prior extinction

thebproblem in isle is that it takes hours if they cut the 5 hour growth too only an half hour sooooo many other adult players would risk more and have more fun cuzthen u feel u dont waste 5 hours over nothing, i wasted 7 hours just too be killed by the same mixpack dino gang the other reasons nobody plays as fullt grown is beacuse lack of ai and food.

The Isle was the only one I played, and this game does not respect people's time, you die, and you need to AFK simulator for HOURS, while getting food after a few while, to be able to properly play the game, at first is cool and all, but after the repeatable content starts, when you got the hang of it, the world is not a threat anymore, you are just bored waiting, not even Roguelikes or those old school MMO's punishes you to the point of a hard reset just for the sake of it, I think it needed faster growth, or, you take something after you die if you had a good run, to make your next life "easier" to progress, because in The Isle for example, the "endgame" and the game itself is about PvP with a brush of survival attached to it, the game does not reward or even make it possible to engage in PvP earlier in the game, you do not grow faster killing dinosaurs, you just get stomped and hit killed. Because does not matter the "idea" of the game, still humans playing, and the game spectrum no ones wants excessive realism (except the dumb devs with their egos wanting to change the camera and such for this purpose), and it all comes together to a simple survival PvP game, like DayZ, WarZ and many others, but with a dinosaur theme, which is amazing, but the overall game I think it needs to properly respect your time more, in other survival games you are not overpowered during 4-5 hours of your game by anything and everything, you can fight people and AI just fine, might struggle but is not impossible like The Isle.

Growth is just flawed its why these types of games are niche

I think this video is missing a huge fundamental factor: a good minimum viable product. The game's progression should be connected to the minimum viable gameplay of your game. The GDC talk on Subnautica highlighted this, but the way you increase the playtime of your game isn't just to add a random progression system: you need to have your late game be an extension of the minimum viable product. Path has...a pretty poor MVP. You just slide across the floor as a bounding box and click when you're close to someone else for "combat". The worse part is that, as the video mentions, the late game has nothing to do with the MVP. If you take all of this into account, it's pretty clear why people feel that there is nothing to do. Since the MVP isn't as well thought out as it should be, we just get nothing that's fleshed out. If you don't have a good foundation, you are bound to fail.

@XZaguer I think you're on to something about Juvenile Dinosaurs accompanying the niches of smaller, lower tier Adult Dinosaurs, but there's 2 things I'd like to tackle. Now, I'm going to explain this as someone who is a former Isle Legacy Player, and present Path player, and the Dino I'll be using for my example, is the new Acrocanthosaurus (12:37) . Acro, while meant to fill in as the underdog of Apexes, and relies on both player skill, and numbers to hunt it's preffered prey, is a PAIN to grow. It's not necessarily bad, it isn't in the slightest. But until you're full adult, it's near impossible to judge what you can safely 1v1, and what you can't. A Sub-Adult Acro can get bowled over by some Kaprosuchus if you don't get a proper amount of stamina out to run. I think Dinosaur tiers should be more fleshed out in GENERAL, as well as their Growth Stages. A (non fresh) Sub Acro should be 50/50 down the wire to an Adult Allo in a 1v1, and it should be clear Acro is a true Apex when hitting Full Adult. This is where my next point transitions in. I don't think that GROWTH is the problem of the game, I think the reward of hitting full adult gets stale too quickly. Yes, once you're adult, you're a super speedy demon, or a nigh-impervious dreadnought. But, what then? There's nothing AFTER you hit full adult. Now, while some May be able to grind away to go at it, playing consistently, I think Isle, Bob, and Path all share the problem that full Adult is kind of an empty canvas. There's just nothing really left after. My last point, and this has to do exclusively with path, is their growth system. I mainly avoid Officials (For the best experience, try to get into community servers, makes the game 1000% more fun), however their Questing System is fantastic for an Ecosystem. My Biggest problem with The Isle, is the struggle to find food. It can be a NIGHTMARE, and those AI Creatures are not always the easiest to find, ESPECIALLY when you are little. This normally results in you wandering around aimlessly, praying to God you bump into another player, which you can't guarantee you have a chance of winning. Path's questing system fixes this, by forcing smaller players to become familiar with areas, and quickly learn what areas are safe, and what ones aren't. Herbivore players can check questing areas, and wait for a fellow Herbivore to come along, and group up with. On the other hand, Carnivores can properly Ambush in these areas, taking cover and able to attack and kill small prey, when they desperately need to eat. Growing is meant to be stressful. When you reach full adult, your fear of dying is supposed to diminish, as you get bigger, faster, and stronger. When you are young though, life is meant to be a serious struggle, and a very tough challenge. While Officials eliminate AFK Growth entirely (Which is a good thing, and forces the player to engage with the world around them), Community servers most of the time, allow AFK Growth, but promote greater rewards by taking the risk to quest and grow faster, therefore jeopardizing your survival chances on a near coin toss. Path's growth system may not be the very BEST compared to it's competition, but it's the most functional, and supportive of it's map ecosystems. I hope Y'all enjoy reading, I'm more than happy to discuss stuff in replies. Respect my take, I'll respect yours, as usual.

while i would agree with this in most cases, the isle pachy specificially stands out as a fun creature even when small, its not something i ever afk on because its fun throughout its entire growth cycle, mass kosing with it is fun and at around 30% u can hunt and kill omnis and at around 50% u can hunt dilos, so while for most creatures in these games, i agree since why would i move around as a juvi stego, I think if more creatures where like pachy where its actually fun throughout its entire gameplay loop (while pachy is awful and unviable solo, it is extremely fun when u have 2 or more). A roblox game by the name dino sim, which annually has more players than Beasts of Bermuda, takes a simple but effective path at dealing with juvi unviability, and that is simply making them faster than the stage above them (for example, baby rex is 24 walk speed and 28 run speed, juvi rex is 20 walk speed 24 run speed, adult rex is 16 walk speed 20 run speed) but to balance this out so juvis arn't these super oppressive hunters, they have less stamina (baby has 25, juvi 50, adult 100).

@Dinoman9877

2 ай бұрын

"mass kosing with it is fun" My dude you are literally part of not just one, but the majority of problems in The Isle right now.

just make subs faster than adults

I like PoT growth. Keeps you buissy going from area to area completing quests. Being an adult is boring since theres nothing to do other than run around fighting people

If only you were one of the isle devs, they need your critical thinking skills. I swear there wasn’t a single video of yours that I disagreed with or didn’t enjoy!

I am the first and the last the smartest and the most impotent I am all there ever will be in this video

@christiancastillo-tamayo495

2 ай бұрын

I’m sorry what the fuck does that mean 😅

@1TooManyToons

2 ай бұрын

@@christiancastillo-tamayo495it means he had a stroke

@bigfatcarp93

2 ай бұрын

Holy shit He's too powerful

@mr.dr.kaiser4912

2 ай бұрын

lmao this dude out her advertising the fact he's impotent. Very different meaning from the word "important."

I've always thought growth just shouldn't be in these games, its boring and unnecessary

Growth sucks because all dinosaur survival developers, for whatever obscure and disturbing psychological reason, are terminally afflicted with dumbassery. They can't recognize what parts of their games suck or what they can do to fix them, and also are unwilling to change the way their games work for the sake of "realism" and adhering to the (bad) conventions of the genre. If you're not _feeling_ like a lonely, bored, starving orphan animal for hours then it's not real dinosaur survival, they think.

Sorry man, just doesn’t make sense for a baby to be just as viable as an adult

@dark_c_a_t8894

2 ай бұрын

It dosnt need to as an adolt, but needs to be fun to play as an adolt.

You people just like to complain

This video is bs and full of lies and bad points like all your other videos growing in isle is fine they just need to fix the centuries and same for pot it's growth is also fine the grind is also fun they just need to make questing fun which they are working on