I love that the previous tenant was also a Dungeon Master.

@junkbucket50

3 ай бұрын

Oh my gosh! That's amazing

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

Rumor has it they also ignored Recall Knowledge checks.

Kate 100% needs to start the next episode by receiving a bottle cap

@Gargs454

3 ай бұрын

Especially since she did correctly figure out the Shae's ability.

@AlexanderMulhern

3 ай бұрын

@@Gargs454Right?! the moment she said it i was doing the leo dicaprio pointing at the screen meme

@danhooper3723

3 ай бұрын

+1 for the Bottlecap!

@ulfhazelcreek8108

3 ай бұрын

Yes!

@jrlonergan6773

3 ай бұрын

Agreed!

Hahaha guys the rage in this ep is palpable! How many years has it been that concealment rolls have been whenever the hell someone remembers and now on Kate's first good roll in a month of shows it has to always be the first roll!? Lmao thats ridonczoni! And Troy running over Joe with that bus 🚌 classic! You guys are amazing. So glad Kate got her justice! 🎉

@shadows96100

2 ай бұрын

Yeah I kinda felt for Joe during that part of the episode. It is the classic rules lawyer conundrum, when you rules lawyer for the players no one pays any mind to it but when you rule lawyer against them suddenly you are just being pedantic and "ruining the fun for everyone."

I remember troy stating he wanted the flat checks to be second so if someone crits it is more tension on the flat check

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

That sounds right.

@nickholt9546

3 ай бұрын

This is 100% accurate he has said this on multiple occasions, including during campaign 2

This ended in the best way possible. The tension and build-up led to such a hilarious and victorious ending. Between everyone shouting, "GO PISS, GIRL!!!" All the way to Joe dancing, the celebratory crit, the mask break, the kill, and the "What did you say?!" That was... poetically amazing. You all have some serious chemistry, and I absolutely love you guys, and I'm really happy to see all of your success! Well-deserved and rightfully earned.

My favorite thing about Skid isn't his myriad of voices or affinity for capes, but it's comparing the beginning of his stories to the end...they NEVER go where you'd expect.

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

He's the choose your own adventure of banter.

@jameswachter5295

2 ай бұрын

​@@TheGlassCannon I commented in greater detail on this episode but I want to let you guys know I rewatched the table disagreement and I'm happy you all let it air because I felt like it was a good lesson for players and especially DMs. I just finished a four year campaign as a dm, I had nights mush less aggressive than that I walked away feeling terrible.

Skid could *100%* charm his way into his alma mater to rifle through their Latin textbooks. He's the sweetest damn person.

That last Nat 20 was pure greatness.

@verbandstasche2905

3 ай бұрын

Would like to know the whole crit the text tbh

Every gamer knows that rules discussions are a part of the game, but we've all also had bad game nights where rules discussions have gotten... unpleasant. Thanks for being professional and moving on with the game without taking the rules argument to the dark place it could have gone. You guys are all top notch.

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

No! YOU are!

The slog through bad dice was worth it for the pure joy of the last few minutes. For the record, the priority of flat checks / concealment has been discussed on and off since Giantslayer (if memory serves) and the argument has been re-prosecuted each time since then with increasing vitriol and hilarity. Pick a lane! These numbskulls are the best. Love ya, GCN.

This episode's thumbnail is probably the best one so far

Hey Skid! I know you are frustrated with the add/subtract energy mechanic, just a mini suggestion since you took Psi Burst at second level it has the Mindshift trait, you can add or remove energy to it. So if you know someone has resistance you can use that knowing they will resist the damage and then use your two actions on your spells to really lay down the hurt!

Only discovered the GCN maybe a little over a year ago or so but that might have been the best ep of any show I’ve seen. Go piss!

Put your little hand in mine and together there is no mountain we cannot climb, I got you Shae!

you know its gonna be a good episode when skid has his cape

what an amazing ending to the episode the last 20 minutes was a gem

Great episode the end was hilarious and cathartic.

I don't like it, but Troy and Joe are correct "When you target a creature that’s concealed from you, you must attempt a DC 5 flat check before you roll to determine your effect. If you fail, you don’t affect the target. The concealed condition doesn’t change which of the main categories of detection apply to the creature. A creature in a light fog bank is still observed even though it’s concealed."

@SurfRlyeh

3 ай бұрын

I think most people would just say "Okay, that would have been the flat / conceal check" and move to confirm from there instead of sticking to the written-in-stone requirements for declaring the roll. Do this for a solid session or two and it becomes ingrained. The 20s are always exciting, hence people being bummed when they "burn" crits on survival or sillier stated non-combat rolls. That's just a nature of the tabletop beast.

@matthewsteinmetz729

3 ай бұрын

Right, they are correct. Putting Matthew's not being able to find the rule aside, the core argument isn't about that, it's about why have they been doing it wrong for over 20 episodes, and instead of making the decision to keep the roll and then say from here on out that's how it's being done, they throw out the roll, a roll everyone has been making since they started playing. The choice to toss out the nat 20 from a roll that has been done incorrectly by everyone up until this point is absolutely brutal, and imo the wrong choice. You honor the incorrect roll, you move on from there doing it right. You are unfairly punishing a single player for doing something everyone else did, GM included, with no punishment. Not only that but the swing is heavily in favor of the GM by negating that roll, and the GM has done the same thing! With no penalty! I'm fully with Syd Kate Skid and Matthew here. Brutal ruling.

@SurfRlyeh

3 ай бұрын

@@matthewsteinmetz729 Oh absolutely, preach on! It's a shame that so many people on the Internet haven't experienced these sort of fun arguments that nearly end in friendly (or less-so) violence or don't get how often rules discussion happens as a basic part of TTRPGs.

@derekcampbell6005

3 ай бұрын

The change from using a d100 to a d20 for concealment checks in 2e seemed arbitrary to me, and this would be less of an issue that way.

@troykingery1665

3 ай бұрын

Why didn't Zephyr climb down & get her bow? Woulda taken a couple of rounds, but her turns were not really productive anyway without the bow.

What a rollercoaster of an episode, and no matter what the rulings, this is a great example of how ttrpgs can go from frustrating lows to the highest of highs when you overcome situations like that one! Plus it was also frikkin hilarious at the end. Awesome stuff!

Y'all owe Kate either a raise or a bottlecap for putting up with your shenanigans

The Remaster changed the rules for Interacting, you can swap a weapon as a single interact action! Page 268 of Player Core "Draw, put away, or swap an item. Swapping allows you to put away one item and draw another in the same action (such as putting away a dagger and drawing a mace)."

Fun episode! NGL I liked the tension around the rules arguing and was the embodiment of that Michael Jackson popcorn GIF the whole time. It made for a hell of an episode arc too! The way it resurfaces when Sydney also nat20's the flat check, and the resolution at the end was perfect. Assuming he truly sticks to that ruling forever, I respect Troy for holding fast to his decision and appreciate Joe for being willing to join the 'mean' team (though it was pretty rough of Troy to single him out as a bad guy right after, even jokingly). If I had to guess there's probably a lot more concealment coming their way and this hard reminder will keep things smooth later on.

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

Wink emoji. Heart emoji.

I recently found this podcast and have been spoiled by not having to wait for the next episode. Just caught up kinda upset about the cliffhangers. But they add suspense and excitement for the next episode.

@stefaniefisco

3 ай бұрын

Welcome to the Naish!! Troy loves his hard cliffies.

@ryanfox5747

3 ай бұрын

You can fill that gap in your life with hundreds of hours of their other content. One of us! One of us!

@baku354

3 ай бұрын

Delta Green is one of the best campaigns on the internet. Joe O'Brian runs an amazing game. Androids and Aliens is really good as well, and both of those are on KZread.

@lorenzovaletti4951

3 ай бұрын

​@@baku354Ahh the good memories with AnA!

The end of this episode is easily one of the top 5 moments in all of GCP history (in my opinion) and it could not be more deserved than for it to happen to Kate! Congratulations on a total CLUTCH roll! You really did P!$$ all over the table LOL!! ((see you in Vancouver!!!))

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

So much piss.

Love the drama. Such a good discussion. Ttrpgs can get heated sometimes. Thanks for keeping it in.

The argument about the rules and making calls is what sets this apart from other podcasts because this is EXACTLY what happens at every gaming table. Other podcasts often do not treat it like a game, but as a story. With the GCP it feels like a game at the table. But yeah, by the rule of the book Joe and Troy were correct lol.

@denniswebster1048

2 ай бұрын

100% agree! It really sets them apart.

In regard to random number generating needs outside of TTRPPGs, my wife and I sometimes roll a d20 to determine if we go out or stay in for the night. It’s nice because you can skew the result ranges to how you are feeling like 1-5 stay in, 6-20 go out, do odds/evens, 1-18 stay in, 19-20 go out, etc. We did this with a group of friends once who were all pretty tired and set the range at 1-15 stay in, 16-20 go out. Sure enough we rolled a nat 20, so we all sucked it up and partied our asses off. It ended up being a great night!

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

Love it!

Sydney, I got and appreciated the 'go piss girl' reference!!

It's always funny how any time they group is met with a slight challenge they immediately collapse

@nwtbpodcast

3 ай бұрын

"This is unwinnable, we're dead!"

@Gargs454

3 ай бұрын

Yep. There were plenty of tactical choices they could have made that would have helped but they were stuck on the "this is what I do" mentality. PF2 is about teamwork and flexibility. Always sticking to just one approach will cause them problems in the long run as this episode showed.

@crushingit5128

3 ай бұрын

They or you mean Joe?

@jaredkelly4866

3 ай бұрын

Especially clear with how fixated they were with trying Recall Knowledge over, and over, and over. Meanwhile Kate applied problem solving and observation, and figured it out.

@Gargs454

3 ай бұрын

@@jaredkelly4866 yeah Joe kinda figured it out earlier when he mentioned she was only taking one action, but since it was Joe they ignored it. 😂

I don't think that we can call Joe the unluckiest roller any more. Congratulations on your new title, Kate!

Joe is just the embodiment of the Jeremy Clarkson meme: "Oh no, someone really needs to do something to help in this fight... anyways, I cast Sanctuary".

Please always keep those more raw moments in whatever you do in the future! It adds so much to the show and is evidence that this is more (not less!) than just 'actors' playing! Please keep doing what you're doing! You all make beautiful things and will always have a place in our hearts!

I have to say that this has by far been my favorite episode from C2. The amount of trash talking, rules lawyering, and even a whole table pop off... Feels like old times!

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

This guy gets it.

way more time on the map please!

Wow, what a finish after all the painful rolls! Looking forward to more pi**ing next time ;)

I don’t think there’s enough appreciation for what a beautiful man skid is. That is all.

some great emotions this one

I agree with Mathew. My life is so much richer with a weekly dose of Skid in it 😂

Regarding the turn Tallitha used an action to sheathe her weapon and then another action to draw her hand crossbow, the Remaster added a new Swap action that allows a character to sheathe a weapon and draw a different weapon for just one action. Would have saved Tallitha an action here to be able to Devise a Stratagem that turn.

@GabrielBishop

3 ай бұрын

Core fixes many things.

Sometimes the hard yards are really worth it, and this is definitely one of those episodes!

Great episode, almost witnessed the end of the network with that concealment discussion xD

I just discovered Skid's actual name is Patrick??? 😂 Wow

Love you guys! Awesome ep!

There was so much anxious energy in the this one that I was literally screaming by the time Kate got her due

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

Right?! What a feeling!

I’m a little tipsy while listening and I can confirm that they have had a few drinks and I would strongly recommend throwing a couple back before listening… the banter is so f*cking funny

The flat check should be called a flatulence check.

@Indigorun

2 ай бұрын

Great way to end the sesh!

THIS IS MY FAVORITE EPISODE SO FAR! This felt like a group of friends playing and fighting over the rules over a cold beer. Nice, love it and do it again.

I used that same damned first year Latin book ! As soon as you said the front was Ben-Hur ! That’s funny. Skid is a national treasure of randomness.

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

He sure is.

Bottle cap for Kate!!! Also...Kate for president. I just feel like the world would be more chill if Kate was president 😎

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

A vote for Kate is a vote for all of us.

Kates redemption moment at the end was TOP CLASS LESSGOOOO PISS GIRL

Joe spent the last 9 years rolling so bad he's just glad someone else can share his pain. He's been interrupting the show to explain rules ever since Tom Exposition got introduced. Joe, if you read this, dont ever change.

The reason you have to make the flat check first is because there are abilities that trigger when you MAKE an attack. So first you have to see if you can make the attack and then make the attack. It's not as simple as making the attack and missing. Sometimes all that is required is the attempt. Also, see you this Saturday! So excited for GCP Live!

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

Preach!

"Sweet Caralin, egh egh eghhh"-Troy Lavallee

Joe "Rules-Boy" O'Brien would push an elderly lady in front of a street sweeper if it meant getting the chance to cross the picket line.

that would be Jenny's First Year Latin. it was my textbook for Latin One, as well. and yes, I still have my copy.

She came. She saw. She pissed.

I think Skid's book is Jenney's First Year Latin. It's a peachy yellow/orange book with a picture from the movie Ben Hur.

I'm sure Matthew is thrilled about the thumbnail of this video 😆

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

What he doesn't know can't hurt him.

You know what... it's been a long time coming, but imo this was Kate's 'breakout' episode. The tension leading to her reaction on that Nat 20 was so damn cathartic! Go piss girl!

*Whew* they weren't lying last Cannon Fodder that this week would be a doozy on rules. xD Yes, RAW, you roll the flat check first. But Kate was rolling the attack first, that was clear. And yeah they've 100% done the flat check second a buncha times. See, i don't ever have this issue, because we roll in Foundry, so if you rolled with the attack macro, it was the attack. Then roll the flat check after and get sad your nat 20 is wasted, it's fine, it truly doesn't matter the order, so i've never had to have this conversation. So i guess Norse Foundry isn't ideal for *all* your random number generating needs, compared to a VTT...

@yellowpetelol6417

3 ай бұрын

I like the physical dice rolling. Roll confusion can happen in a VTT just the same, and it's way cooler having the seat neighbour peek at the tray and everyone else checking the player's face for a reaction than having the whole table stare at their screens for the outcome.

@origami_dream

3 ай бұрын

@@GooberNutt For sure, i don't fault them gettin' paid. Though maybe they could stick to Foundry for mundane rolls, or when concealment's a thing; save Norse Foundry Cam rolls for Box of Doom-ish things, i dunno. Or they can make high-drama rules arguing content that's fucking hilarious. That works too.

@playlistb3795

3 ай бұрын

​@GooberNutt but the math rocks feel so much better!

@BlueSapphyre

3 ай бұрын

I highly recommend the pf2e flat check mod. Automagically does the flat check for you. It’s amazing.

@origami_dream

2 ай бұрын

@@BlueSapphyre Ooooh thanks that's a good rec!

This was a fun encounter to run myself. This ability confused my players too! lol

I always feel like I have to say this. I love the show. The whole crew is great. That said, I do think Troy takes an adversial role as a GM. He seems to take an obscene joy in frustrating his players. Sometimes you have to identify when to cut your players a break, when they are just frustrated and not having fun which he seems to forget is the point of the game. I understand and appreciate the importance of structure and rules but they are not the be all and end all of the game.

Hahah Troy is more kind than I am. I had a PC gain a new companion and gave them the opportunity to name it, and the other players started throwing out names to the player to name the companion, but the first thing they said was " Shut the fuck up Johann!" and thus that companion was named ShutthefuckupJohann .

This had some serious Campaign 1 energy

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

For better or worse!

Wow Kate really did take a piss!

The Remaster introduced the Swap action. 1 action to stow and draw a worn item. 1:13:41 Foxfire is a ranged attack with a 20ft range increment, You can still use it outside of 20 feet, it just takes a range penalty. for every 20 feet

Feels like Kate will never be this happy ever again!! 😂

Came back to read the comments after watching the fod. Hilarious, pretty sure Troy took command of responding this time.

26:40 If Skid's dog is purebread then it's a Pedigree Cham'i.

Mathew is playing a character that has a core component around recall knowledge and he is playing with a troll of a GM who is unashamed to say he does not care about recall knowledge and will even lie and obfuscate the real result to "make better radio" The question I ask is why would anyone even try to engage in Recall Knowledge when even a good roll will get you unreliable information? I would be livid that my whole character is being nerfed into the ground just because a GM doesn't want to engage with how the Recall Knowledge rules actually work, if you listen to last weeks Fod, Troy makes it clear he doesn't care about the knowledge recall rules and doesn't know them

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

Wahhhh. Wahhhh. Wahhh.

@KBOBANDY

3 ай бұрын

​@@TheGlassCannonLMFAO glad I chose today to scroll through comments

"Mattheeeeeewww!!!"

Old textbooks get stored in warehouses in Columbia, Missouri.

It seems to me that some of the frustration re: the rules is that Joe is playing a different game than a few of the other players at the table - theater of the mind, versus strict rules. It's honestly a little exhausting, and I'm glad this kind of thing doesn't happen in Time for Chaos.

1:09:58 this is like when i found out that stripper poles spin on ball bearings and people arent just spinning around them. Now ill always be wondering if Troy is sitting cross legged

God I wanted Troy to give a Joe a bottle cap for standing up for him so badly, just to see the whole roof collapse.

Bottlecap for Kate to restore credibility in this dark hour.

Phenomenal Banter!!! Haha 😂

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

We're having a good time.

Yeeeeeees. first one I catch to watch liiiive from the start!

Ok! Prinny's overbearing interjection time: Joe and Troy are right on concealment rolls, need to be done in order to properly target the concealed subject, as poopy as that can be. Secondly! Kate/Zephyr has her bow on her back this entire time! All the remarks of her not having it, but the ruling/round reversal last episode was specifically because she had to stow it before climbing out. Silly billies. Great episode, I'd have been screaming by the end of it with the running away, glad Kate got her vindication at last!

as the son of a merchant marine Cheers you you Skid.

Troy sits like me XD I thought I was alone in sitting like that in chairs.

Joe reminds me of how I used to play tabletops RPG’s. I love rules still and will call myself out on them all the time but i don’t call out anyone else but the GM for better or worse.

And zephyr punches it so hard in the face she smashes it's mask and puts her fist through the back of its head

Use drag ruler and drag ruler integration pf2e and you will see the distance moved as you drag turns around

I re-listened to this ep yesterday and it occurred to me that a lot of the problem with "Flat checks" could be solved by using a die other than a d20 for them. Literally any other die... if a flat check is a 50% check, you could rule odds or evens, you could throw a d10 and go 1-5 or 6-10... if you needed smaller percentages, like 25%, you could us a d12 and go 9-12... lots of options. But using a die other than a d20 for a flat check would mean never rolling a "nat 20" on a flat check when you meant to roll an attack.

I would think that since fan fumbles are a thing in this game, either everyone should be rolling to hit first or everyone still rolls to hit after the flat check, whether they overcome concealment or not. They're still attempting to hit as named characters, which is the only prereq for fan fumbles. Otherwise, in fights against such opponents, it severely decreases the potential for fan fumbles to actually happen.

Any way we can get a VOD of the Kate/Syd sims stream?

What's the drop Skid uses at the very end of the ep?

The one constant is that Joe is a teachers pet 😂 You guys should drink more often lol

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

The teacher's pet that no one wanted.

@stephenbarcus

3 ай бұрын

@@TheGlassCannon 😂 Gotta make sure he gets his gold star

19:57 is there a link to the sims stream?

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

It would be on Sydney's Twitch channel I believe.

Joe should read the Light cantrip and learn how to use it.

@richby6949

3 ай бұрын

The entire area/dungeon suppresses magical light due to being, unsurprisingly, a shadow plane (Nighthold).

@keithpark2044

3 ай бұрын

@@richby6949 He can cast it up to 4 times and attach them to 4 people to provide plenty of light even in Nighthold.

Concealment checks first. "When you target a creature that's concealed from you, you must attempt a DC 5 flat check before you roll to determine your effect." Exact same wording in Core Rulebook page 467 and Player Core page 434. That said, still feels shitty.

Since you guys are now International Jetsetters, you should come Down Under.... :)

Keep playing... The game will reward you!

Just so you all know.....I'm sitting cross-legged right now

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

We're having fun.

was just thinking this campaign needs an ep that "went long" this is it

Perfect timing: Furry of Blows AAAAACHAAA

Sydney 9 is another hot tshirt waiting to happen

@TheGlassCannon

3 ай бұрын

Sydney 9 is so hot right now.

@donc7664

3 ай бұрын

@@TheGlassCannon i'll have to clear my history after saying this, but we probably need merch (maybe car decals) of characters peeing on stuff like d20s. Lol

@jamesthelimey1738

2 ай бұрын

@@donc7664Like those Calvin decals!

@jamesthelimey1738

2 ай бұрын

“Asta… she’s a perfect Sydney 9”

I can't believe that Asta's spell attack modifier is only +5! (rolled 19, said that was a 24 to hit)

The flat check arbitration (and the rolling order has been inconsistent in past episodes) really does make me realize that I miss d100 percentile rolls. Yeah the GCN had inconsistent house rules there as well for when high is good, low is good, 69, etc but you never got the Concealment roll mixed up with the attack roll at least. If continuing to roll IRL I do think forgetting the flat check until after the fact or sometimes even until later in the round when remembered sometimes inevitably happens, maybe another potential solution is just go back to percentile dice with 20% miss chance on Concealed and 50% for Hidden.

@yellowpetelol6417

3 ай бұрын

Could have a special color "Flat Check Die", that way you could even roll them together

@jjbudinski8486

3 ай бұрын

This is a really smart observation, and would be really good to houserule moving forward. A lot of the talk is about when the roll should be rolled and how the team USED to do it, but that was with 2 different die so was never in dispute.