Thankyou for covering Cziffra! He is my absolute favourite pianist and I'm really glad that you are highlighting his poetic side! I have to say though that his 'flashy side' is FAR from shallow. The reason he is my favourite pianist is his rhythmic freedom in fact music. Take his Liszt Transcendental Etude #10 for example. It is both one of the fastest versions of all time, and one of the slowest.....hang on, how does that makes sense? Well if you listen to him he fluctuates the tempo SO much, often on a dime, and adds a feeling of utter improvisatory freedom that somehow NEVER detracts from the construction of the works he plays. A lot of pianists play with dynamic 'colour' - well Cziffra plays with rhythmic colour. Every pianist plays with copious amounts of rubato in Chopin Nocturnes, but what about playing with rubato in Chopin's Op10 no4 Etude?! Yeah, Cziffra turns a moto perpetuo study into a rollercoaster! Not only dynamic in volume and touch but in tempo. A lot of people mistake his absolute aversion to playing metronomically as a lack of control - but it's the opposite, he was in complete control. His Hungarian background - growing up around Gypsy violinist and groups playing Czardas dances really instilled in him this sense of rhythmic freedom and penchant for dizzying accelerandos and ritenutos. When people try to recreate his recordings - for example with the infamous Grand Galop Chromatique -they entirely miss the point. In fact that piece is in my opinion rather dull when played by others! It's the same with his Schumann Toccata - a piece I find rather dull usually, but his way with tempo fluctuations and touch variation is the key to unlocking the magic of that piece for me. His fingers were an absolute marvel in themselves - but it's these capricious and inimitable musical qualities that they were are the service of that make him my favourite! Thanks again for covering him. 😀

@Chopin-Etudes-Cosplay

Жыл бұрын

Well put! I love Cziffra’s sense of timing too!

@TheIndependentPianist

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I pretty much totally agree. I perfectly see where you are coming from when it comes to his wonderful control over rhythmic freedom. I don't always find it to my taste (for instance in the Schumann Toccata), but it is always fascinating what he comes up with, and it's not at all a lack of control as you mention! I guess for me, some of those things take the kind of "Gypsy" approach better than others. Although I know that is really just my own preference.

@tombennettband1485

Жыл бұрын

@@TheIndependentPianist at least he has his own "Sound" like all the greats! not a conservatory computer. That's why i love him and Horowitz and Pogorelich and Gould.

Great episode. I really appreciate your diving into Cziffra's approach to Liszt and touching on that popular perception of Liszt as purely virtuoso music that was created by many performers. I loved he really brought out that Beethovenesque humor in the Rondo.

Aaah fantastic. György Cziffra - when I was studying many moons ago he was a hero of mine. Was quite a while ago and I could be wrong but it's possible it was I that encouraged a look at him. It may have been the vid of his mad sound check at the BBC that prompted me, playing a crazy version of Chopin Op 10 No 1 mixed in with other things ..! His life was extraordinary and how he survived and came to the fore was the stuff of movies (there should be one!). I like many, was utterly flabbergasted at his technical prowess BUT he has so much more than that - his musicality and interpretive energy is a joy. Down the years one will often notice extraordinary physical gifts on an instrument by exponents but it rarely goes hand in hand with such beautiful music making. Interestingly, like you, I also found much of his musical 'sound' is generated by his use of the pedal and the half /quarter pedal technique. I have often noted to my students and colleagues that the piano should have a permanent half pedal 'switch' which would probably save us all an awful lot of work!? But Györg has that as a 'normal' part of his playing and his sound - truly incredible. In sound terms the only pianist I have heard that is similar is the remarkable Dinu Lupatti who as you'll be aware, was taken from us so early at 33 and so sadly. Might be worth having a look / listen to him as well Cole? Thanks for this though - György Cziffra is always worth the time and trouble.

@TheIndependentPianist

Жыл бұрын

Yes, Lipatti, great idea! Thank you for the suggestion, and for suggesting Cziffra as well.

I was one of the guys who suggested Cziffra! (I think it was in the Horowitz video you made 😂) Thank you for taking the request. Cziffra was definitely a special existence in the piano history and a representative figure of virtuosity. Even some people don't like (even hate) him, I still think he is absolutely capable to be one of the great pianists in 20th century!

"cannons and flowers" might be the reference to schumann talking about chopin. ive heard that it describes his ballades and also his mazurkas. i think it was probably the ballades though. in cziffra's case it describes his style pretty well.

Cziffra is so underrated.

I'm with you, Cole: understated virtuosity is a most desirable virtue! Your chosen extracts revealed the most wonderful artistry in Cziffra's performances. The evenness of his light touch at speed in pianissimo and the nuanced way he could solo out the melody line in the Mendelssohn was truly awesome as well as inspirational. I think you share many of Cziffra's virtues. As for flaws . . . the only floors with you are under your feet! (We forgive you for missing an upload last week. However, giving up Cole, even for one week in Lent, was penance enough. I look forward to sinning again weekly, if the sin is to be indulgent and worship your own understated virtuoso performances!)

For some context on the Kissin Beethoven (not that I feel you've attacked him!) This was from his 97 Proms concert (the first ever solo Prom in its history I believe) and was part of his marathon encore set. Obviously encores are about gving the public what they want, and Kissin plays to that here. I'd be interested to hear how he'd play it, if it wasn't being performed as a crowd-pleaser. I have seen him interviewed and get the impression that he finds this pure virtuosity aspect unintresting himself. The Cziffra recording is utterly charming and I'm grateful for you leadning me to it - I'm sure I've scrolled past it before for exactly the wrong sort of reasons you're highlighting. Thank you :)

Cziffra was born with a way of moving at the piano.The details in his readings show he had it all - not just an brilliant Liszt player . I'd like to know what you think about Lazar Berman and the great Liszt player Jorge Bolet ? . Cziffra had a lot instinctively .Did Cziffra record much of the late Liszt .I was amazed that the difficultlife Mr.Nyireghai who left nothing to be remembered for amazed me in that he knew so much of the latelate Liszt -a sign that he had taste earlier in his life. I wish someone would explain what is so great about Michelangeli and Geiseking's Debussy Preludes .Whenever I'm ask to play something I so often chose Brahms var.12 from2nd book or the Amajor op.76 or Bb. Brahms is good nightime music . Cziffra is unbelievable playful and virtuosic in the Paganini variations ! Kissin in the Rondo made my mouth fall.Not one weak finger in those loud even arpeggi and scales .I can't believe anyone can play it like that .Cziffra pedals and the left hand is less beserk but Kissin's steely approach is very difficult to do. Anyone brave enough to play Bartok 2nd is special. It's impossible !

@nihilistlemon1995

Жыл бұрын

Bro you are all over the place

Cziffra's Liszt in the Grand Galop or Hungarian Rhapsodies is the Liszt people in 20th century imagined Liszt. Not necesserily what he really was, judging from the description of his playing. Cziffra was amazing at what he did, no matter whether this was or was't how Liszt played.

Also would like to learn more about this "half-pedaling"!

Really interesting. Thank you so much. I used to know someone who worked at EMI and periodically I would get some free cds. When presented with a 6 disc set by this pianist I'd never heard of, I was a bit non-plussed. And there was some standard rep (Tchaikovsky 1st concerto etc) which I wasn't really interested in but there was also some really interesting baroque stuff and Busoni/Bach. I would just echo what you said about lightness and the glowing sound. He really could make early French music sing and dance, in a way which I've only really heard from Glenn Gould when he tried his hand with earlier English music. The expressiveness of the ornaments is little short of miraculous. And he had a marvelous way with Chopin. Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I thought the Brahms was revelatory - I must find the whole thing.

Love the call out to his autobiography “Canons and Flowers”, which you can find for free online, translated to English. It made me both laugh and cry throughout - a wonderful read. Surprised to learn that Cziffra doesn’t play Liszt the way that Liszt probably intended, as Cziffra’s recordings of Liszt always sounded the most convincing to me (though I haven’t studied Liszt or his scores in much depth). Wonderful video!

@TheIndependentPianist

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! Of course I can't be 100% certain how Liszt played his own works, it's just my supposition based on reading eyewitness accounts and studying his works. Of course there is no reason you HAVE to play a work in the same way the composer would have anyway. I guess I get kind of protective of Liszt, and concerned if his image might get tarnished in some way 😀

@nevermindme898

9 ай бұрын

@@TheIndependentPianist Its true. He didn't play Liszt like Liszt. Great pianist and friend of Cziffra, Tamás Vásáry, explained in a documentary that Cziffra didn't play like Liszt as he knew exactly how Liszt played.

Regarding Liszt: he himself showed someone how he varied his performances depending on his mood and his audience. I have always loved Claudio Arrau's Liszt, but I recall reading that Amy Fay said "Beside him, all other pianists sound heavy". This makes me question whether Arrau's style is truly Lisztian. There is an incredible recording of one of the rhapsodies by Ferrucio Busoni, which combines crystalline clarity with great lightness of touch: I suspect this comes close to the Master's style. Alfred Brendel made the perceptive observation that Liszt's music faithfully and fatefully reveals the character of the pianist who plays it. Thank you for this video: Cziffra was incredible: I never heard the rondo cappricioso sound like that!

A great video, and I I deeply appreciate your review about Cziffra's interpretations of non-romantic composers. Concering Liszt especially - and not only about Cziffra's interpretations - , I have a slightly different view. Cziffra was a unique pianist in the history of piano playing, but also had strong roots in the "Hungarian school" of piano playing. This "school" was indeed founded by Liszt himself, and had names as Bartók, Dohnányi, Anda, György Sándor, Annie Fischer, Kocsis, András Schiff etc. and Malcom Bilson as a honorary member (with a little search you'll find good reasons why. : ) This "school" starts with the question of _what_ we play when we play the music, and the answer here is that it is the musical structure that has to be played. Everything else, dynamics, sound quality, colours, microrythm and agogics, internal phrasing of chords, tempo in general etc., so all these musical decisions should principally support to show the clear musical structure in as reach details as possible and on all time scales. This is why you can hear the "orchestration" quality in the good interpretations here - indeed, a central question in this school is "how would you orchestrate this part". Also: "sing the voices one after the other to find the good musical solution". There are other schools, on can aim to play virtuosity, or play many colors, or emotions (affective elements of music). All can be valid at some point (though I do not like all of these equally), just the Hungarian school tells that all these things: virtuosity, emotions etc. are just ruled by the musical structures, and you play there "other" things by playing the clear musical structure. (András Schiff told once at a master course: play as I play, or if you want to play differently, tell the reason why. But here the "I am feeling like this and that" will not be enough.") And this concept goes back to Liszt. Just recall the citation about Liszt's playing - that You cited! :) - that his playing was very colorful, but not because of the richness of never-heard and/or elaborated and balanced sound qualities, but because of the internal richness of the interpretation in whole. This is, I think, the "orchestration" quality in Liszt's playing. So, going back to Cziffra's Liszt: yes, he does not use all the possible colors and phrasings and etc. that was discovered by others like Arrau for example. (While Arrau here is not a too good example, he himself had got clear "lisztian" instructions via Martin Krause! :) ) And yes, Cziffra was most shifted towards virtuosity than, say, Yudina, Gould, Sokolov and others, but his virtuosity was not about the show, it was about the billiance of the interpretation and he was especially good in this "land" (and just let's note that the brilliance is a quality of the musical structure in fact). So here my evaluation is a yes and no. Cziffra's Liszt is not my first choice either, but I do not see him as an overvirtuosic interpretator, just as: based on his own gifts, he played quite validly _that half_ of Liszt which is simply less interesting to me than... the non-virtuosic Liszt. I am citing the b minor Sonate and the Dante sonate and the late works etc. (and the choral works, very much) here. Here's a fragment of Bartók's Liszt: kzread.info/dash/bejne/m3mJ28ppk8TThM4.html

Its all subjective really - as with all performers and pieces - some i like others i dont and it is always fun to be surprised. Refreshing to hear honest opinion

How about Clara Haskil as a "Great Pianist'.???...Great Beethoven, Chopin, Mozart and Scarlatti..some Ravel...

Cziffra did recorded 4 more Mendelssohn works: 1st concerto, 2 songs without words, a little scherzo,

@Felix_Li_En

9 ай бұрын

And two transcriptions by Liszt and Rachmaninoff: Wedding March and Scherzo from A Midsummer Night's Dream.😆

I think Liszt's style itself tends to be so flashy and virtuoso it can't really benefit from performances that first and foremost seek to highlight these qualities. The true depth of his music - just like with every composer I think - hides behind the technique. I completely agree with you on his playing of Liszt's music, although he isn't the only pianist guilty of this. It's rather difficult to resist showing off if you do have something to show off. Strangely enough I got to know Cziffra's playing through his performances of Chopin, whose music I think - on the contrary - can benefit from some cold technicality because everything is written in the music itself, and can become schmaltzy if played with too much emotion.

@TheIndependentPianist

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much. I also really like much of his Chopin, which I didn't get to in this video. His G-flat Impromptu in particular ❤

Thanks for this video! This is awesome! Would you do Sokolov?

@TheIndependentPianist

Жыл бұрын

Oh sure! I've been avoiding currently active pianists so far, but I was planning on doing some videos on contemporaries as well. I will just need to be really diplomatic... 😄

"Music in the intro and outro is Earl Wild’s Etude no. 1 after George Gershwin’s “Liza”" I don't like it... it feels like you speed up before establishing a tempo... sometimes I forget to skip it and makes me physically uncomfortable... it's your channel, not mine :) Edit: I just listen to the outro for the first time - I have no problem with that.

Agree on Cziffra and Liszt, for the most part… The Liszt Polonaise in C minor, for example, is one piece I particularly am fond of, but I do find Cziffra’s recording harsh and overall cold. I prefer Louis Kentner in that piece. (In spite of the rather unusual cut Kentner takes) That said, Cziffra’s recording of Liszt’s transcription of Wagner’s Tannhaüser is one of his great triumphs - it combines his wonderful virtuosity with an incredible understanding of orchestral sonorities and more importantly, a warm lyrical tone akin to Guiomar Novaes in Beethoven’s fourth piano concerto. Cheers!

@MofosOfMetal

Жыл бұрын

Cziffra's recording of the Liszt C minor Polonaise is my favourite piano recording of all time! So overwhelmingly emotional.

@farazhaiderpiano

Жыл бұрын

@@MofosOfMetal I personally don’t like that recording much, but let’s agree to disagree.

@TheIndependentPianist

Жыл бұрын

I'm going to need to listen to his C minor Polonaise again, as I don't remember it! And I don't think I know his Tannhaüser at all-I will listen right now.

@farazhaiderpiano

Жыл бұрын

@@TheIndependentPianist Let me know what you thought when you get a chance.

@TheIndependentPianist

Жыл бұрын

@@farazhaiderpiano It was a fun listen. I HATED Cziffra's C minor Polonaise-although it was also pretty amazing in its way. But that is exactly the approach I was referring to: very chaotic and insensitive to the meaning of the piece. I could easily see why some might like it though, there is some fabulous improv, and he really lights the piano on fire in a very persuasive way. The Tannhauser I hadn't heard his version before and I really liked it. Even there, I did find a few moments where things went a little haywire-some spots towards the end when he went berserk and started improvising. Still amazing of course, but not always what I like in a piece like that. In the Rhapsodies that kind of thing sounds exactly right to me. But for the most part his approach was really nice there, thanks for recommending it. It reminded me of another one of my favorite Cziffra recordings: the Bach-Busoni D major Prelude and Fugue. That is one of the best recordings ever of any of those transcriptions, mostly because he finds such a convincing middle ground between imitating the organ and playing the piano!

I think it was Harold Schonberg who said that Cziffra was incapable of playing anything faster without also playing it louder. Personally I agree with you that you can't eat fire for every meal. A light chilly snowflake is refreshing in between, to indulge in a bit of metaphor lol.

I can't stand Cziffra. All I hear is a virtuoso with a harsh sound showing off his technical prowess.