This man's book, Sigh Gone, is a must read. He has a way with words that will astound, thrill, make you laugh, make you cry. I'm extremely grateful to have found his book.

@fofasaad7150

3 жыл бұрын

What is the name of the book please ?

@dianamckibben8441

3 жыл бұрын

@@fofasaad7150 the book is Sigh Gone. It is a memoir.

@sklambsquad

2 жыл бұрын

i just finished the audiobook-i loved it SO much. need to get the written version and read it. and listen to it. again and again.

Phuc is an amazing dude. I'm fortunate to have had him tattoo me several times and will continue to do so. He's a smart smart nerd and I'm here for it.

This guy was my old Latin Teacher in 6th grade. He's the man!

I greatly appreciated the reflections. What a thrilling thing to think about, the way grammar reflects philosophical emphases regarding the shape of reality. Thank you very much Mr. Tran.

I am Vietnamese and I find of most of his claims are absurd. Vietnamese has way to express condition, to think of what could happen if they had did something. About another claim that Vietnamese does not have "might, could, would", I think it's wrong too. While it's true that Vietnamese does not have "would", "could" could be expressed as "có thể", "might" could be expressed as "cũng có thể". For example: If he told me that, I would have lend him some money: Nếu nó nói với tôi, tôi đã cho nó mượn tiền. If he told me that, I could have lend him some money: Nếu nó nói với tôi, tôi có thể đã cho nó mượn tiền. If he told me that, I might have lend him some money: Nếu nó nói với tôi, tôi cũng có thể đã cho nó mượn tiền.

@martinmichalek

5 жыл бұрын

As I was watching this, I though, "There is no way that Vietnamese does not have conditional sentences or some substitute of the subjunctive." Absurd, right?

I listened to this talk as I was navigating cross country travel in the 'Polar Vortex' it gave me great perspective on being present regardless of circumstance. Thank you for a great talk Phuc!

Vietnamese has subjunctive... However, Phuc's dad's English isn't sufficient enough to comprehend what he said. His father probably didn't "catch" the phrase "would have", or he was unable to comprehense it in English since it's not his mother tongue... Also, Phuc's Vietnamese is quite incomplete since he's left Vietnam at a young age... Vietnamese subjunctive form: Nếu đã , thì (có lẽ/perhaps) Just like a normal condition form, but Vietnamese language speaker could assume it to be in subjunctive form for an alternative result/future. Note that beside perfect tense, tenses are often optional in Vietnamese, speakers could assume what tense it belong to...

I'm really glad to see that the first couple comments here call into question the entire premise of this talk. Though I don't speak or study Vietnamese, I am a linguist, and I would be very surprised if Vietnamese speakers couldn't talk about possible ways the world might have been different. For example, do people tell/understand fictional stories like in novels and movies? If so, then they're able to imagine alternate realities. I don't doubt that Vietnamese lacks certain verb conjugations found in European languages, but there are other ways to talk about possibilities. In linguistics, we call this modality, and so far every language examined has a way of expressing it. Nigel Duffield has done some work identifying it in Vietnamese.

@chanthien99

10 жыл бұрын

I am a Vietnamese and I can tell you that not only we can do so, but also do it in much more concise way than in English. This talk is full of crap; and nothing is more annoying to me than seeing uninformed people going around spreading fictional facts. All thanks to TED for helping spreading this. "TED - Wrong ideas worth spreading"

@thevannmann

10 жыл бұрын

There are definitely ways to express it in Vietnamese.

@user-kp5kg5dl8h

8 жыл бұрын

+Daniel Goodhue I think most human beings, having the function of creativity (even if they may not necessarily create art or music), should be able to understand thinking of alternate realities. I am studying Vietnamese and have friends living in Vietnam, and in no way do they have any trouble speaking of "counterfactuality". I'm a little saddened that a scholar has not only confused the conditional and the subjunctive, but he has also, in a way, made Vietnamese seem like some stubborn old man who doesn't believe in "imagination". And I think he only came up with this because his father didn't want to figure out what the English subjunctive was...somehow that equates to the entirety of the Vietnamese-speaking population having no sense of thinking outside the box...

I feel that this talk acknowledges language as a powerful creative force. What is emphasized in its use can either hinder our progress or propel us forward. Thank You for a thought provoking, great talk!

@jacqueplett1800

5 жыл бұрын

Yes

@betsybrains

3 жыл бұрын

Bet the subjunctive gets tired. "Why I always gotta be the guy to help folks express fear?" Subjunctive continues, ..."If I'd've gotten a better booking agent back in AD 1100 like they told me to, back at the get-go, I might've retired by now, from gigs inside hopeful sentences!" His sentence building coworker, the Indicative, replies to his little imaginative buddy, "You worry a lot. You assess threats well. Now, dinnertime, huh? It's prepositions with lost apostrophes sauce!" They enjoyed dinner.

When he talked about how Vietnamese didn't have subjunctive, I was like ... Whaaaat? Dude, you obviously don't know Vietnamese well enough.

Phuc keeps talking about "the subjunctive" when he actually means the conditional: "If it hadn't rained, we would have gone to the beach." I couldn't help thinking that Phuc's parents were probably quite capable of pondering and expressing the notion of "what might have been" but they just chose not to.

@ElLoco3108

10 жыл бұрын

Vietnamese even has much more ways to express that notion than what English offers. Every language has a dreamy side, and I don't understand why Phuc said Vietnamese is all indicative.

@graceless02

10 жыл бұрын

The subjunctive mood refers to the past tense used in the first part of the conditional. As in "hadn't rained" in the first part.

@acclopes84

10 жыл бұрын

That is the subjunctive. Saying "If she were a man" is subjunctive mood, as it expresses something that is not true, just wishful thinking. Different than if I had said "There was a meteor shower last night. If she was on the beach, she might have seen it", which is NOT the subjunctive (subjunctive = she were), because it expresses something that could potentially be true.

@ceigey-au

10 жыл бұрын

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subjunctive_mood I think Phuc Tran's pretty much on the money here saying "subjunctive", although we need to separate the mood from the grammatical form (which is a different kettle of fish, even if it is used to achieve the subjunctive mood, since we can also get the same effects of the subjunctive mood without using the subjunctive form of verbs). His statement about his dad going "that's stupid" makes me think he wasn't calling the very concept of being able to talk about things that might as stupid, but rather that he was treating the way English did it as stupid. EDIT: well, actually, getting further on in the video I'm going "eeeeh, not sure how much I agree with this". So, ok, I'll give people points for pointing out the iffiness on his statement about Vietnamese grammar's capabilities. EDIT #2: Ok, going on just a bit further, I'm getting the feeling he wants to say something but he's approaching it from the wrong direction. "What happened and what didn't happen" vs "alternate realities", there's different connotations in there that are interesting, but.. IDK anymore. I'll just shaddup.

@pristinetran9275

9 жыл бұрын

Vietnamese people pre-1975 have simple mind and way of thinking and expression. However, as Vietnamese language evolves as the country joins the industrialized trend and globalized world, today people have more notions, trends and different ways of thinking, pondering, expecting and envisioning things.

The biggest idea that I took away from this Ted Talk was how powerful the indicative and the subjunctive are and can be. The idea that the subjunctive can act as a lens into the future is something I have never thought of before. Also, the fact that the subjunctive also holds this idea of regret through the phrase, “should have” is something that else that I had never thought of. It was very interesting to hear how powerful grammar and language can be.

So inspiring to realize how much grammar effects our lives and way of thinking. I personally love this presentation and feel enlightened by his presence.

I found this talk to be quite inspiring. I am sorry to see that some think it reflects poorly on the Vietnamese language. On the contrary, I took it to mean that phraseology of particular languages impacts human emotion and reaction to situations. This is not the first time I have heard this idea expressed and it is fascinating to explore how the nuances of different languages impact the culture. In fact, Tran points out that it was only through his father's Vietnamese approach to language that he discovered a path to his true calling.

Interesting talk and nice to read comments below. I am Vietnamese, speaking English and Spanish. I am not aware of three moods in my previous English classes, but they are very important in Spanish grammar. When I study English, I was a bit surprised to come across words such as "could", "might", "should have happened". I found them a bit bizarre and unnecessary. For Vietnamese speakers, it is possible to express imaginary thoughts on alternative realities, with words such as "có lẽ", "giá mà". So I am certain that Vietnamese speakers could be capable of imagining what life could have been different. However, instead of a systematic structure of grammar rules, we only have a few words to express these subjunctive ideas. So, I think there are two views at the extremes. One is that Vietnamese speakers cannot comprehend alternatives due to their grammar. I don't agree with it. The other extreme view states that Vietnamese are as creative, even more creative with alternatives with English speakers. I don't agree, too. My view is somewhere in the middle, that Vietnamese speakers do have alternatives in their mind, but they think about them less often than English. Phrases with "could", "might", "should have done" could appear in various daily life contexts of English. But words such as "có lẽ", "giá mà" tend to associate themselves with regret and disappointment in Vietnamese. Thus, their use is much more limited.

@ptran3624

8 жыл бұрын

+Trung Duong their use is much more limited. Agree at some points. However, lẽ ra, đáng ra, đáng lẽ ra is often used today because today teens and Vietnamese descendants have more struggles in their lives and more things to feel regretful about the past, like their path to freedom and independent, open economics, their hits and misses, their cost opportunities and losses all the while countries like Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan become lions, dragons of the Asia and Vietnam is 40-50 years behind... Lẽ ra, đáng ra, đáng lẽ ra is often used today. Explicit case: Đáng lẽ ra, lúc nãy anh nên trả tiền cafe, thay vì để em trả. Thay vì là (instead but it is closed to the subjunctive expression), Implicit case: (Đáng ra/Phải chi) Hồi nãy, nấu cơm trước rồi giờ hở làm đồ ăn thì giờ kịp dùng bữa rồi: implied meaning as if the words in the brackets are omitted. What is good about Vietnamese language in the subjunctive expression is that we never have to conjugate verbs in all tenses even in imperative forms. Only are the pre-fixes added for the expression. đã, sẽ, cấm, không (negative imperative) or trơ từ (adv, adverbial clauses): ngay đi, thay vì, thay vì là, lẽ ra, đáng ra, đáng lẽ ra, ví dầu là (ví von), chẳng những vậy, chẳng những thế, lỡ như, giá mà, giá như...

@Gottenhimfella

8 жыл бұрын

+P Tran and Trung Duong Thanks for entertaining the possibility that the speaker's ideas were worth considering. Some Vietnamese speakers took it to be an attack on the language or the people, which I'm not sure is fair. It's interesting to read your carefully expressed ideas on the matters he raised.

@TangomanX2008

3 жыл бұрын

Im glad you posted your respond. It seened wrong to me this idea that people who speak a language that lacks the "subjuctive" are unable to dream, or hope about different possibilities or even understand or entertain them.

@trungduong4040

3 жыл бұрын

@@TangomanX2008 Thank you for sharing your view. :)

I'm reading Tran's memoir for one of my teaching classes because my group is going to use it for our lesson plan book project. Seeing the comments its lowkey sad how it seems like he's undermining Vietnamese by saying it doesn't have any subjunctives, or that he said he was thinking of things his parents "couldn't understand". Sigh, Gone is a phenomenal book still. totally recommend it!

It is good to hear from a person from South Vietnam that escaped. I was aboard the USS Kirk that help escort about 32,000 refugees to the Philippines so that, along with Phuc Tran, they are experiencing a world where they can expound upon the subjunctive.

Subjunctive is present in Spanish and is hard to teach it to native English speakers. We have the conditional or potential, the present of subjunctive and the imperfect or past tense subjunctive. But we also have the compound tenses for subjunctive and conditional. [yo he amado, tu habias comido, el habria ido] Further, the imperfect subjunctive has the 2 forms [amara/amase]. And each form has 6 different verb forms [talking about conjugation], so that we’re looking at a total of 48 different forms for any verb. Even with patterns, this is quite daunting to learn. Tenses - - - - - - - - - - - - -simple--compound Conditional - - - - - - - - - - 6 - - - - - - - 6 Present subjunctive - - - - 6 - - - - - - - 6 Past subjunctive Imp 2x 12 - - - - - 12

phuc...am honored to know you. never knew vietnamese didnt have a subjunctive and, my goodness, what a perspective-changer. thanks for putting your peter out there and sharing this

@larryle49

4 жыл бұрын

I just came across your comment and I guess I should keep you informed that Vietnamese Grammar does not have the verb mood like English. However, Vietnamese does have its own way to express the unreal condition type 3 to express some kind of wish for the opposite reality. Instead of using the conjugation to convey meaning, we use specific subjunctive phrases such as "đáng lẽ, đáng (lẽ/lý) ra, giá mà, giá như, giả như". Phuc left Vietnam as a child. It's understandable that he could not get all the colloquial or convention that in-country Vietnamese use. I agree that Phuc's talk is amazing from the lens of English grammar. However, it might be "inappropriate" to say Vietnamese grammar does not have subjunctive mood.

He forgot about the conditional mood. There are four. In fact, I would say -- and do always -- that the imperative IS the subjunctive because they both handle the realm of non fact. I like that anyone talks about these matters, but I also think that it happens better in the context of dialogue.

I would guess that Phuc was making the point that although the subjunctive exists in all languages, it is not as accessible in certain languages, therefore making it less of the "go to" thought process, as it is in more Germanic languages. I'm sure if we sat down for a credit hour course with Mr. Tran we'd get a more nuanced and complete explanation.

"Yoda knows, Yoda knows how hard and uncompromising indicative is"

One of the most beautiful grammar lessons I've ever received. Thank you for a stunning, touching (very brave) and meaningful presentation.

@Ynysmydwr

5 жыл бұрын

Except for the major flaw that the speaker does not know the meaning of the word "subjunctive", so that whatever other worth his talk may have, it is certainly not as a grammar lesson. Indeed, I don't think he used the subjunctive mood even once in his presentation -- though that's not be wondered at, given how rarely it is used in English (example instances: "if I were there"; "it's important he understand this") and how very often, even when it is, it turns out to be indistinguishable in form from the indicative (e.g. "if you were there", "it's important they understand this").

While I don't see it as accurate regarding ability, it does remind us that conditionals and subjunctive are challenging for a reason. Off topic: One of my favorite things to do is find unique words in each language and use them in English as well. German Schadenfreude, Bengali words that were blended with colonial English but with a unique conveyance, etc. Are there phrases in Vietnamese that convey something unique to Vietnamese ideas, culture? Something we should know?

Great talk, by one of the best teachers I've ever known.

I never imagined that grammar and philosophy were so closely related. Perhaps we need to revisit the distinction between may" and "might".

This talk is beautiful, thank you.

For everyone saying that he's wrong about the subjunctive, he hasn't misidentified the subjunctive. He uses it perfectly well, and he's labelled it correctly. I'm sorry that you guys have have confused the subjunctive (If I were you) with conditional (I would listen). Not that the conditional is a mood in English. (Ce n'est pas le français.) Hebrew, my fourth language, my immigrant language, doesn't have a subjunctive (it's missing a few other things that I'm used to from Romance languages and English) and I struggle to express myself.

it's probably his dad's limited english that gave him the false impression that the subjunctive mode doesn't exist...

@larryle49

4 жыл бұрын

It can be true. Actually, the grammar structures are totally different between English and Vietnamese. Vietnamese does not use the verb tense(s) to change the nuances of the sentence. However, we use specific words or phrases to convey the "subjective mood". Phuc's talk is amazing from the lens of English grammar but it does not make sense to the in-country Vietnamese.

This resonates with me so much, love it !

Well, I thought your idea is not completely proper about subjunctive words in Vietnamese, that you said " going from a language with no subjunctive like Vietnamese to a languae with subjunctive-rich fabric like English". Actually Vietnamese prople often use subjunctive words as in English: We say "Giá mà..." like the condition sentence type 3, "Đáng lẽ..." which ís really like " I should've" or "would've"

@xuanvinguyenwright

8 жыл бұрын

+ducanh nguyen I agree with you. But maybe he's a professor in the area and he wanted to mention about something more complicated :D

@Phuc Tran (for some reasons I couldn't reply to his comment below - you can find it down below)) What the hell, dude? Please stop misinforming people about your dad's and my language. You are absolutely clueless about and are not qualified to dissect it! "Just for clarity: For the sake of a 14 minute talk, I couldn't get into the finer points of whether Vietnamese does or doesn't have a subjunctive. While it does have ways to express possibility, verbs in Vietnamese do not have a true subjunctive. In English, one can say "might, could, would" but in Vietnamese, one is lacking in these distinctions specifically because there is no proper subjunctive. " -- @Phuc Tran Please just shut up already! Stop embarrassing yourselves and bashing my language! Might - he might not like it. Anh ấy *chắc* ko thích đâu. Could - I could do it. Tôi *đã có thể* làm vậy. Would - I would not do that. Tôi *thì sẽ* không làm vậy đâu. Note that there are many other ways to say those and I only gave 1 example each. What an arrogant smart ass. Know only little Vietnamese but think he knows everything about it. Please.

Excellent

This is an extremely flawed argument. All languages can express possibility and uncertainty. In another word, all languages have the concept of subjunctive, however they express this concept differently. You can't use English, an extremely different language to Vietnamese as the standard for assessing Vietnamese grammar. I agree with everyone else here, you simply do not know Vietnamese enough to understand it, just like your father did not know English enough to properly express himself using the subjunctive. As mentioned in the other comments, Vietnamese uses compound words for the subjunctive. If you want to say that Vietnamese lack a proper subjunctive because it doesn't conjugate the verbs, like you said "might", "could" etc then I can also say that English has no proper subjunctive because as you can see could is just the past tense of can. English doesn't have a proper subjunctive tense like for example Spanish. If you compare English and Spanish, English has an extremely poor grammatical structure. This doesn't mean that it can't express the same thing Spanish can. You can also say English lacks a future tense because it doesn't have a separate set of conjugation for it, just using compound tense will+verb Also there is no imperative tense in English either.

@Gottenhimfella

8 жыл бұрын

+moonlight The subjunctive and imperative are not tenses, but moods, and they certainly do exist in English. The imperative is differentiated by using the bare verb stem; the subjunctive is differentiated only in certain combinations of verb and person number. It's not tidy, but that doesn't matter to native speakers, because English is a very untidy language; what's important to the point being made by Phuc Tran, is that those concepts can be economically expressed and differentiated in English. You may be perfectly right that he does not understand Vietnamese well enough to support his contention, but it also seems to me possible that he's making a more nuanced point than you realise, or are prepared to entertain.

@sexiliciouslyhott

8 жыл бұрын

Gottenhimfella yes that's why I said languages express things differently. Some people don't consider English to have subjunctive or imperative because it has no separate conjugation for them like other languages such as Spanish. But it doesn't mean English dident have subjunctive and imperative just that it expresses them differently, using bare verb stems for imperatives like you said. If you use Spanish as a standard to assess English then you can see English is a very poor languave with no this and that. But it's a flawed comparison because all languages express things differently. This guy is obviously not a native speaker of Vietnamese , he just speaks a very broken version that is spoken by the overseas vietnamese youths at home with their parents. Obviously he doesn't know much about the language

Great gem dropped here!

I came across this one when someone answered a question. One wonders which was meant when the pause after 'not' was there but insufficient: "I do not, no." "I do not know."

This talk is so inspiring!

Everyone points out the inaccuracy of his cometary but misses the greater picture... There's wisdom here if you listen.

@hieuhd93

4 жыл бұрын

wisdom comes from inaccuracy, distorted truth? Please.

Recently, to my surprise, I learned that Julius Caesar wrote a book on Latin Grammar - that means Julius Caesar, who conquered half of Europe was a geek!

Great guy! I truly enjoyed his diverse perspectives!

Does society shape language or language shape society? Is the Subjunctive partly to be causative of the emergence of gender, pronounce, etc?

I love this presentation!

I appreciate the points the speaker is making, and he gives a great talk. However, what he is talking about isn't called the "subjunctive", or even the "subjunctive mood". What he's referring to is the "conditional". "Would" and "could" are conditional auxiliary verbs. The subjunctive isn't formulated with a conditional, but with a subjunctive. Many people don't know what the subjunctive is, and how it is used. The subjunctive is used to speak of a hypothetical event, and the sentence usually starts with "If". It is usually used in conjunction with a conditional, such as: "If I were to go out this morning, I would miss the repairman's visit." The subjunctive in that sentence is "were", the conditional is "would". As far as whether or not Vietnamese has a conditional mood, if I were to study Vietnamese, I might be able to tell you.

@Gottenhimfella

8 жыл бұрын

+Ash Tree Indeed. There are lots of comments on the TED web page from people making the same point as Irene, but i think they all miss the point, which is perhaps more nuanced than they have considered. As you point out, a conditional construction (like "If I was in better shape, I would cycle to work") can be combined in English with the subjunctive to express a desire or a fanciful or non-factual proposition, or one which is doubtful. (So the indicative mood for a realistic proposition: "If I *was* better paid, I would employ a driver" switches to the subjunctive mood for a fanciful hypothetical proposition: "If I *were* the President, I would not have to concern myself with transport arrangements") And I think the TED speaker is making that more nuanced point: Languages which lack the apparatus to simply identify fanciful hypothetical propositions may A) limit native speakers in formulating such propositions or B) reflect a long-term cultural disinclination for advancing such propositions and of course in practice it's a chicken and egg situation, where both A and B combine, which could be expected to drive a kind of negative feedback loop

@irenejohnson8118

8 жыл бұрын

***** I never said they couldn't. I said: ' "Would" and "could" are conditional auxiliary verbs. ' This means that "Would" and "could" are conditional, and they are auxiliary verbs. There are, of course, other auxiliary verbs, both conditional and not conditional. My point was that "Would" and "could" are conditional, not subjunctive. I never said that auxiliary verbs can't be used in any other mood. If your comment had a point, please explain.

@irenejohnson8118

8 жыл бұрын

Gottenhimfella If the speaker was talking about fanciful hypothetical propositions such as "if I were the President", a relatively unrealistic proposition, rather than "if I was better paid", a more realistic one, why does he use the examples of the very real possibility of having been killed in Vietnam, or taking a leave of absence, or wearing a Spider Man costume, (which was assuredly not fanciful, since he did indeed wear one)? He is explicitly calling "could", "would" and "should" the subjunctive mood, whereas these words are conditional, not subjunctive. The verb itself can be indicative or subjunctive, the auxiliary makes it conditional. The speaker never once mentions the word "conditional" in this speech, where his point hinges completely on the conditional, not the subjunctive.

@Gottenhimfella

8 жыл бұрын

+Irene Johnson Fair cop. I had not re-listened to the speech, (having heard it on the radio while i was doing some manual work) and you are quite right: he chooses conditional examples, so that even if his proposition has merit, he is arguing it so poorly that it is left to the speaker to see if there is a more nuanced way of framing it which deserves consideration. I think there is, but nearly founders on the point you (and others) have justifiably raised. I'm sorry to have impugned your post.

@Felsinae

8 жыл бұрын

"If I was better paid" is incorrect. Since it's a contrafactual, it should be "If I were better paid." Degree of likelihood is conveyed in the future more vivid (If I see your cousin this weekend) and in the future less vivid (If I were to fly to the moon). But a contrafactual is a contrafactual, and always needs "were." The only time "If I was" is correct is in the case of admitting or entertaining a possibility: "If I was late, I apologize." In the third person, "If he was the murderer, then why did he seem so upset?"

I speak Vietnamese fluently and can indeed express an "alternative universe" in Vietnamese. I can ponder the could have's and would have's. So I'm confused about Phuc's point. Is it even valid?

@kjammusic

3 жыл бұрын

It is not valid. He is talking nonsense.

Excellent talk. Fantastic artist as well!

@ sounds like your sapir-whorf hypothesis is a bit too strong but ok I don't know Vietnamese, but as a linguist I'm a hundred percent certain that native Vietnamese speakers are able to express everything an English speaker is able to express. In different structures, yes, but it just not true that one's language determines one's thoughts, as this lecturer is implying.

2:30 - Which one do we win? 1

I had an Indonesian roommate who claimed that his native tongue did not have tense, per se, so he would not place things in the proper context all the time. Me: "Budi did you pay the rent?" Budi: "I pay!" which could mean that he paid, that he will pay or that he has his checkbook in hand paying. I am sure that it was a much more complicated than that, but that's what he told me. Love this talk regardless.

All aboard the Phuq Tran! Choo choo!

From a Vietnamese viewpoint, I'm sure that he doesn't know anything about the language!

Best explanation ever

Bro I watch this video so many times trying to understanding this.

This is an excellent presentation.

Now, I'm having trouble with how Phuc views the subjunctive. It seems to fascinate him in the beginning, and by the end he is citing studies proving an overwhelming detriments of pessimism. So, my question I'd love to ask Phuc (and maybe someone here could answer) is how can we optimize our use of the subjunctive mood in order to channel creative optimism? Or is he saying that when only when we are prepared to face to "dark side" should we venture into the the unreality of the subjunctive?

@envyandlove

10 жыл бұрын

You bring up an excellent point in terms of how the mood towards the subjunctive switches. I personally believe that the subjunctive is rather useful, and he does have a clear fascination of it, but we have to practice caution around it in order to not fall into the trap that is pessimism. It's good to be aware that there is a "dark side," but this does not fully hinder the fact that the subjunctive is a great tense to use.

I appreciate the fact that he's trying to make a poignant observation about the difference between the way his parents approach life and the way he does, and the fact that language certainly influences the way we see the world, but he's got his grammar wrong. Would have, could have and should have are not the subjunctive, they're called modals in English. It would surprise me if there weren't (now that's the subjunctive!) some way to express those ideas in Vietnamese, even if it is not expressed in the verbs, but I have to defer to a Vietnamese speaker for that.....

@jessie6458

2 жыл бұрын

He should have learned Vietnamese properly :)

what he calls subjunctive at first is called conditional in french, which has a clear subjunctive. "might" and "may" are i believe subjunctive, tho this tense gets little notice in grammar classes.

I find that the presentation was very well delivered with a nice cadence of calmness and factually convincing. However, had I not been born in Vietnam and grown up in America, I would have sided with him on all points. Oops! Was that a subjunctive? My point is, there are subjunctive moods in the Vietnamese language. In Mr. Tran's case, his father probably did not use it much because of a cultural preference for not using the subjunctive, not the lack of it. I know Vietnamese has the subjunctive mood because I have used it myself.

@nguyenvictor1527

9 жыл бұрын

Sự tự tin của 1 Diễn giả có thể gọi là linh hôn của bài diễn đạt, Quan sát, thông minh, sử dụng ngôn ngữ chuyên môn khéo léo... Tôi rất thích người diễn giả này...!

Every language has its own way to express ideas. It's silly to say a language is inadequate because it doesn't follow the same grammatical rules of another language. Generations of Vietnamese parents have told their children: "con nên học" which means "you should study". In fact we can express "should study" with various degrees, ranging from suggestions to (almost) demands!

He's saying Whorfian language affects or even produces thought (then mindset, thus personality, etc.)- I think so too and it's quite obvious. I think people below are being way too hard on Mr. Tran. He is expressing his opinion and trying to back it up with facts. A lot of TED talks do this. That being said, he did a good job.

@tradinh8146

7 жыл бұрын

It's also quite obvious that other perspectives should have been considered to avoid being extremists. Each language has its own conventions and values. Comparing the two languages to find solutions for mutual understanding would be better than orienting it as sarcasm.

amazing speech

never thought about this before, thanks for sharing (:

Awesome job, cousin!

I love this!

wonderful

Great lecture!

Most of the points he makes aren't valid. For example, he claims that, because Vietnamese doesn't encode the subjunctive grammatically, native Vietnamese speakers cannot understand or express contrafactual conditional concepts. This is inherently wrong. All languages can express the same concepts, although the methods in which languages encode information may differ. Vietnamese may not have modals that work like those in English, but it can certainly express subjunctivity through other means.

awesome thank you.

Isn't all of this the conditional mood? The subjunctive is something different (eg., It is required for you to be on time).

Nice talk, but he is conflating mood and modality and what he says (Sapir-Whorf-hypothesis) is also questionable. To some degree the hypothesis seems to hold. But to think that you cannot think in hypotheticals if your language does not have a form for it, seems difficult to maintain. How do you know that this is not a cultural rather than a linguistic phenomenon? In a video that discussed the development of IQs an increase in intelligence was explained by the fact that older generations (even though they knew the "subjunctive") were not willing to think in hypotheticals.

Lẽ ra... Giá mà... Giá như... Please learn your father's language well, Mr. Tran

To the speaker: Please learn and master the powerful nuances, as well as the limiting weaknesses, of the Vietnamese language before you plan to give a talk like this ever again. If I had never learned the English language, especially its "subjunctive," am I limited in my ability to think and ponder human conditions and situations??

There is a story at the root of this talk that I find compelling, but Tran used an eviscerated version of linguistics to turn what sounds like a conflicted relationship with his father into a reductive dismissal of Vietnamese language and culture as a whole. There is irony in the fact that, despite his adulation of the verbal mood, Tran doesn't give any examples of the "true subjunctive" in English ("if I were...", "that he go...", etc.), but rather modal verbs in conditional sentences.

I don't understand how a self professed "grammar geek" can speak so eloquently, and yet confuse the subjunctive with the conditional.

@user-kp5kg5dl8h

8 жыл бұрын

+James Cook Thank you. I know people would like to defend him, but this is pure laziness on the part of his "studies". It is a HUGE problem that he didn't bother actually to verify whether or not what he was saying about English grammar was correct.

@madmonkee6757

6 жыл бұрын

The problem is that he hasn't misidentified the subjunctive. He uses it perfectly well, and he's labelled it correctly. I'm sorry that you guys have have confused the subjunctive (If I were you) with conditional (I would listen). Not that the conditional is a mood in English. (Ce n'est pas le français.)

@meghangoertz2641

5 жыл бұрын

In Greek & Latin at least, conditionals are in the subjunctive mood.

@offeibeaawuku6121

2 жыл бұрын

The conditional that talks about what would happen or what one would do in certain circumstances The subjunctive that talks about a situation that is uncertain, unreal, or just a wish. Also, the subjunctive mood talks about the urgency or importance of something.

Not the best opportunity to brand TED through TEDx. One criteria for speaking ought to be accuracy of content. As has been said below, not only can the CONDITIONAL be expressed in Vietnamese, none of the examples Phuc Tran gives is relevant to the subjunctive mood. That he has taught language in the schools (perhaps as a mentor or tutor?) does not speak well for him or for the schools. Sorry Tran--you're a good story-teller, and perhaps like many TEDx talkers, a good self-promoter, but the point of your story is moot.

@Felsinae

8 жыл бұрын

"Conditional" has two different meanings. The most important meaning is "a sentence with an if-clause stating a condition." The other meaning is "a mood used exclusively in conditional sentences" (as in French, Italian, German). But in many languages the subjunctive is ALSO used in conditional sentences, specifically in the protasis (if-clause) of a contrafactual. In some languages (e.g. Latin), there is no conditional mood-different tenses of the indicative and subjunctive are used in all the different conditional sentences. You might also quibble that English modal verbs don't amount to a whole other mood (e.g. "would" is a modal verb), but that seems ungenerous, when Mr. Tran's definition of "subjunctive" is correct and useful.

@a.2866

7 жыл бұрын

unfortunately, there isn't an empirical evidence to prove this

Those of you saying Vietnamese has a subjunctive: has it existed since the language's conception, or is it a new component that came long after the days of the Vietnam War? Just something to consider as language, and I mean any language, changes over time. Not trying to fuel a fire, but give some extra thought to the matter. Also, even if the subjunctive does exist in Vietnamese (not agreeing/disagreeing because I don't speak the language), the point is to consider using the language you use in a way that will bring more positive notes than negative notes. If there is anyone reading this that has never thought of "what could've/should've/would've" etc. "happened", then either you're lying to yourself or you don't have the language to express it. We all have something we regret, whether we can express it or not because we feel it no matter what. As he said, language is a tool to help bring the world around you into focus, so learn to use it. Dwelling on past or future negatives continuously can be seriously unhealthy to your physical, mental, emotional, social, and spiritual states. We bring ourselves and each other down constantly, so do the best thing for yourself and others by looking at the positives and what's happening in the moment. That's it. I'm done. Pass the popcorn, please and thank you.

@conho4898

4 жыл бұрын

yes, Vietnamese has had subjunctive since centuries ago. It ain't a Western conception.

@robmic8180

3 жыл бұрын

Vietnamese can express everything English can. It's just the structures that differ.

Very funny analogies. Very very nerdy indeed. 🤪😝😜

I see Bloomfield's theories are still lurking around in American academias.

Great story, but so many things seem off about this talk... 1) In 8+ years of teaching ESL I've never heard that grammar referred to as the subjunctive. Maybe that term is used in linguistics? 2) I believe that language can influence the way people think, but only to an extent. He goes too far. 3) I'm contacting my Vietnamese friend to see if what he says about the language is accurate at all. It's hard to believe.

@skyskape411

9 жыл бұрын

skyskape411 All of these points-- and more-- have been addressed in the comments below. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the flaws!

@wesVietnam

9 жыл бұрын

skyskape411 The subjunctive is a "mood," in grammar, not a different term for the word "grammar." There is a lot of information on the Internet that you could read if you would just do a search for it. If you are an ESL teacher, it's probably something you should know. It's not used much in English, but it is important to use correctly, which by far most English speakers do not.

@nialljacob7407

9 жыл бұрын

Wes Thompson Do you mean speakers from England, or native speakers?

Possibly. However, that isn't what Phuc is saying in the video. You are claiming that the subjunctive can be expressed in all languages, albeit with some difficulty depending on the language. He is claiming that his father could not express what could have happened because he didn't have the language to do so. Two different things. In any case, the linguistic claims in his video are far from credible.

This talk angers me how the speaker is so wrong and keeps using his own father as proof that Vietnamese people cannot understand the subjunctive and cannot grasp potentiality and contrafactuality. Totally wrong. We express these concepts in daily life and in songs and poetry.

Wow. This guy is so bad. He somehow managed to secure a speech at TED to talk about things he has absolutely no idea about (thanks to TED btw). He kept saying that you couldn''t express a lot of things in Vietnamese and Vietnamese is not as flexible as English. What the hell. He is probably the most uninformed, self-proclaimed Vietnamese speaker I've ever seen. Of course we can say things like "if it hadn't rained, we would have gone to the beach". Not only we can say that, but also do it in a much more concise way. I believed that by stating stupid, his dad must have referred to having to switch the tense of a verb to express such idea. In Vietnamese, we don't have to; and it is still very clear. Also, because he couldn't convey to his dad in Vietnamese that he wanted to take a leave of absence from work, his Vietnamese probably sucks too.

@ptran3624

8 жыл бұрын

+chanthien99 he gave real and moving stories, though. Nonetheless, his stories did a good job entertaining the audience, so they were to listen and seemed agreeing with what he said..pooh, that's bad as many commentators here agree on the fact his Vietnamese is not good enough and his father's English is limited, so they can't shared experience on the linguistics to each other.

Interesting story and idea. Too bad that what you describe is not the subjunctive mood. The subjunctive, in fact, is hardly used in English anymore. Besides, the irrealis mood can also be used for pessimism: "I want to learn to ski… but what if I break a leg?"

@tubervine1259

9 жыл бұрын

That would be, "What if I were to break a leg."

should, might, could, would = nên, có thể, cũng có thể You may have studied Vietnamese a lot but probably this is not enough. You should learn more Vietnamese and some French so you don't make people laugh at Vietnamese in such a way. Our language is not perfect yet but it has meaningful colors in the expression and has more expression words than English (I love/like you in English would simply means all of the following anh thích em, anh cảm mến em, anh mến em, anh thương em, anh thương mến em, anh quý mến em, anh có tình cảm với em, anh có tình cảm trân quý em, anh mến thương em, anh tríu mến em, anh có tình cảm trìu mến với em, anh có cảm tình với em, anh phải lòng em (I have a hit on you, I find you are my crush),...You might find it is simple to just have a few expressions in English to say for all of those but indeed, having fewer words to say is poor. For your 'convincing' speech of the subjunctive, let me crack it down to details for you to understand differences and trends in Vietnamese people as the country does develop in regardless of authoritarianism (Vietnam and its people do experience the changes as it is different from the past, more technical, industrial, ideological, philosophical, globalized terms appear in Vietnamese): People pre-1975 don't often have the ideas of speaking with subjunctive senses but later (Generation X and much more later) ascendants do have all of the three you mentioned in the speech: the indicative (les indicatifs), the subjunctive (les subjunctives) and the imperative (l'imperatif). Vietnamese inherits a lot from French which is the most grammatical proper language. French has more ways and expressions of the subjunctive than even English. The subjunctive in Vietnamese is however simpler, which is known as lẽ ra (another meaning of this is 'instead' in English), chẳng những vậy, chẳng những thế, lỡ như / nếu như (What if...giả định điều chưa xảy ra, có thể xảy ra, ví von hoặc viễn vông là nếu xảy ra/nếu đã xảy ra, đang xảy ra hoặc đang sắp xảy ra).. For possibility: có xác suất (probability speaking), có lẽ, có khả năng (be likely), hầu như (mostly), dường như/ có vẻ như (seemly, apparently).

@anhdo5778

9 жыл бұрын

Zenith Tekla Do you think you are good at Vietnamese??? Let someone see that you stand at TEDx and speak like a profession.

@linhnhq

7 жыл бұрын

Wow, I wonder if you are a Vietnamese?

@katng1359

7 жыл бұрын

John Don Not all ideas that are spread via TED talks are accurate, there have been many instances of ted talk being criticized.

@thuyn2975

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing this because this ted talk is very inaccurate.

Anyone else read the transcript while watching the video....lololol.

I don't understand how a miscommunication with your parents can become a premise to condemn a whole language. The whole talk did not prove how Vietnamese is lacking as a language, it just proved that you are weak and lacking in Vietnamese. Maybe you could do better by studying the language of your parents to understand them better before using your bad experience to justify nonsense?

Manjistha Seeburn

Down at the first trap: morphological expression = cognitive capacity. Weighing up whether his delusions about linguistics are more unfortunate than the plight of his family.

Namesake anyone??

His name is Phuc = Fuck ! ;D

Is that his real name or just a title he picks to offend tran people?

@OnTheAir

6 жыл бұрын

That is his name, and the perception that he chose it to offend is misinformed. It is his given name.

stop making that noise with your mouth in between sentences. It is sooo annoying. Couldn't listen longer than 10 min